Question:

> > Take your kids to the movie > By Israel Shamir > Keep your missionizing crap to yourself.

It’s not missionizing, it’s a good parenting tip. I plan on taking my kids to see the movie and then building a big wooden cross in the backyard. I will then tell the kids if they misbehave they will be crucified. If it’s good enough for Jesus, it’s good enough for them.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> Take your kids to the movie >> Why would I want to expose children to a propaganda film about one >> of many false gods? At least the Hindu myths are more colorful and >> entertaining than the Xian ones. Too bad no movie about them will >> be made. > What are you talking about? There’s lotsa movies based on Hindu > mythology. I see ‘em on the UHF channels from time to time. True, > there’s more singing than you might expect, but they’re still fun > to watch. There’s at least one theater in Chicago that shows them, > direct from India, too. > Oh, you meant "that will actually be shown in a lot of places and > will be readily available to people who aren’t in India." Never > mind. > Heh. Anybody ever mention you’re a smartaleck?

The observation has been made. Occasionally even in my hearing. ;) D

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> > Take your kids to the movie > Why would I want to expose children to a propaganda film about one of > many false gods? At least the Hindu myths are more colorful and > entertaining than the Xian ones. Too bad no movie about them will be > made.

I’m looking forward to seeing this myself, but not because I’m a believer. For children, the value in seeing a good dramatization of the Passion consists in the following: 1) Getting a better understanding of a story that has had a major influence on Western culture; to me, knowing about the crucifixion is important if only to allow one to understand the context of certain works by Salvador Dali. 2) Getting a better idea of what the majority of their countrymen (if in the US) are ranting about with the crosses and the fish on the cars and so on. 3) Enjoying a well-acted dramatization. James Cavaziel ain’t no slouch in the acting department, nor are the rest of the cast. It’s only a pity that the film evidently focuses strictly on the Passion itself, so that presumably little to none of Yeshua’s attributed teachings with actual moral and ethical, if not scientific, value (e.g., ‘love thy neighbor’, ‘look to the plank in your own eye first’, etc.) will be dealt with. Of course, for myself, I’m mainly going to see it for Monica Bellucci, who is starting to make a career as the saving grace to a lot of really bad movies.

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> Why are Xtians always going on about the "sacrifice …of Christ?"  Is it > not true that *thousands* of people were crucified during Roman times? > Did they suffer any less, because they weren’t divine?  Why to they get > dismissed as just some poor schlocks, while JC gets all the attention?

Agreed.  I think that we should go back to Spartacus as a sort of secular saint of the quest for freedom. Of course, after his slave revolt failed, he and all the rest of the slaves were crucified, placed every couple of yards along the whole length of the Via Appia (some 30 miles IIRC). Now, that’s a crucifixion and a sacrifice. Not to mention a really smelly road to travel for the next couple months. And Spartacus was played by Kirk Douglas, which has got to count for something…

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Sorry, its R rated.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Take your kids to the movie > Why would I want to expose children to a propaganda film about one > of many false gods? At least the Hindu myths are more colorful and > entertaining than the Xian ones. Too bad no movie about them will > be made. > What are you talking about? There’s lotsa movies based on Hindu > mythology. I see ‘em on the UHF channels from time to time. True, > there’s more singing than you might expect, but they’re still fun > to watch. There’s at least one theater in Chicago that shows them, > direct from India, too. > Oh, you meant "that will actually be shown in a lot of places and > will be readily available to people who aren’t in India." Never > mind.

Heh. Anybody ever mention you’re a smartaleck?

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> Take your kids to the movie

You want to expose children to the brutal, S&M fantasies of Mel the loon? — Mark K. Bilbo  -  a.a. #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion "There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."

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> Take your kids to the movie

You do realize that it is rated "R" for violence, correct?

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> > Indeed, this film can wake up the American Christians to the supreme > sacrifice and glory of Christ. It will bring American ‘Jews’ to the crown > of their long assimilation process – to the Church. It will set them free > – for Christianity is freedom, first of all. And then the Holy Land will > remain the socle of the Cross, not the base of Antichrist. > Why are Xtians always going on about the "sacrifice …of Christ?"  Is it > not true that *thousands* of people were crucified during Roman times? > Did they suffer any less, because they weren’t divine?  Why to they get > dismissed as just some poor schlocks, while JC gets all the attention?

Yeah, and the Inquisition put many to death in ways just as agonizing and prolonged, if not more so, in the name of Christ. Not to mention that it their theology is correct, Christ is reigning in glory in Heaven, forever and ever. Big sacrifice there. Best, Marc

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > To the newsgroups: alt.atheism,soc.culture.jewish, > rec.arts.movies.current-films,rec.arts.sf.written, > rec.travel.air >> Take your kids to the movie >> By Israel Shamir >> The film of Mel Gibson, The Passion, grows into an important, maybe >> the important event of the year. Even before screening, it caused >> violent reactions of the American Jewish ‘thought police’, ADL led by >> obnoxious Foxman. There are unpleasant rumours (in the New York Times) >> that Mr Gibson gave in and decided to censor the Gospel. I hope it is >… > I’m taking my children to see this portrayal of the perfidy of the > Christkillers. They need to be shown the blood and gore that surrounds > the Christillers and Masonic devil worshippers. > And if I get just one more call from CPS that I am violating my custody > agreement by taking them to see an R-rated film (R-rated by the Jew > York City types), I’ll kill the bitch. No Christian jury will do a > single thing to me. > CPS can’t tell me my kids can’t see the truth about the Christkillers. > I’d give this about a D+, maybe a C-.  Definitely well into the Room > For Improvement category.  Just the same, it’s good to see you trolls > trying less boringly conventional tactics, and working together.  Keep > at it.  It’s probably just a matter of finding exactly the right > combination of groups; *somewhere* on Usenet, there’s almost bound to > be someone — perhaps even several someones — stupid enough to > actually take you seriously.  (Then again, that requires that they a) > be even dumber than you are, and b) still be capable of using a > computer, so maybe not.  You might do better to try trolling each > other; it’s quite unlikely that you’re all at exactly the same level > of retardation.)

I saw a few commercial blurbs for some show about Jesus on prime time TV tonight.  Do you plan on tuning in, or are you a Jesus hater or some kind of anti anti-semite? — Elroy Willis EAP Chief Editor and Newshound http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news

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> Why are Xtians always going on about the "sacrifice …of Christ?"  Is it > not true that *thousands* of people were crucified during Roman times? > Did they suffer any less, because they weren’t divine?  Why to they get > dismissed as just some poor schlocks, while JC gets all the attention?

Depends on the Xtians.  The Mormons (not uniquely in this case) believe that the "heavy lifting" both for the agony and the redemption happened the night in Gethsemane (and there is some in-text justification for that view), with the arrest-trial-scourging- parade-crucification-execution being a minor but necessary codicil. — Mark Atwood   | When you do things right, http://www.pobox.com/~mra

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Take your kids to the movie > By Israel Shamir > The film of Mel Gibson, The Passion, grows into an important, maybe > the important event of the year. Even before screening, it caused > violent reactions of the American Jewish ‘thought police’, ADL led by > obnoxious Foxman. There are unpleasant rumours (in the New York Times) > that Mr Gibson gave in and decided to censor the Gospel. I hope it is >… > I’m taking my children to see this portrayal of the perfidy of the > Christkillers. They need to be shown the blood and gore that surrounds > the Christillers and Masonic devil worshippers. > And if I get just one more call from CPS that I am violating my custody > agreement by taking them to see an R-rated film (R-rated by the Jew > York City types), I’ll kill the bitch. No Christian jury will do a > single thing to me. > CPS can’t tell me my kids can’t see the truth about the Christkillers.

I hope your children can read the subtitles.  How old are they? — Elroy Willis EAP Chief Editor and Newshound http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news

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> Take your kids to the movie

Why would I want to expose children to a propaganda film about one of many false gods? At least the Hindu myths are more colorful and entertaining than the Xian ones. Too bad no movie about them will be made.

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>Why would I want to expose children to a propaganda film about one of >many false gods? At least the Hindu myths are more colorful and >entertaining than the Xian ones. Too bad no movie about them will be >made.

Be careful or you’ll wake up the terrible Dr. Jai!!

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> > Take your kids to the movie > Why would I want to expose children to a propaganda film about one of > many false gods? At least the Hindu myths are more colorful and > entertaining than the Xian ones. Too bad no movie about them will be > made.

What are you talking about? There’s lotsa movies based on Hindu mythology. I see ‘em on the UHF channels from time to time. True, there’s more singing than you might expect, but they’re still fun to watch. There’s at least one theater in Chicago that shows them, direct from India, too. Oh, you meant "that will actually be shown in a lot of places and will be readily available to people who aren’t in India." Never mind. D

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> > Take your kids to the movie > Why would I want to expose children to a propaganda film about one of > many false gods? At least the Hindu myths are more colorful and > entertaining than the Xian ones. Too bad no movie about them will be > made. > What are you talking about? There’s lotsa movies based on Hindu

mythology…. I know replying to one’s self is bad form, but not two hours after I posted this, I ran across the following article: Rock Diva Tina Turner to Play Hindu Goddess in Film http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=638&e=1&u=/nm/2004022… It all ties together, I tell you. D

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>> Take your kids to the movie > Why would I want to expose children to a propaganda film about one of > many false gods?

Oxymoron.  Is there any other one?   Dog? Which airline does the false dog love to hate though?

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> Take your kids to the movie > By Israel Shamir

Keep your missionizing crap to yourself.

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> Indeed, this film can wake up the American Christians to the supreme > sacrifice and glory of Christ. It will bring American ‘Jews’ to the crown > of their long assimilation process – to the Church. It will set them free > – for Christianity is freedom, first of all. And then the Holy Land will > remain the socle of the Cross, not the base of Antichrist.

Why are Xtians always going on about the "sacrifice …of Christ?"  Is it not true that *thousands* of people were crucified during Roman times? Did they suffer any less, because they weren’t divine?  Why to they get dismissed as just some poor schlocks, while JC gets all the attention? — MarkA (still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)

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> Take your kids to the movie

No. And if on the extremely unlikely chance that it’s an in-flight movie (the only reason I find for your off-topic cross-post) I’ll find another carrier. — http://mattdrury.net/travel (since 1984)

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I’ll wait for the video and get it free from my club.  Why should I pay money into anything that is xtian?!?! — Shrub is a ONE TERMER!     Just Like His Daddy! http://wonderofitall.com/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Indeed, this film can wake up the American Christians to the supreme > sacrifice and glory of Christ. It will bring American ‘Jews’ to the crown > of their long assimilation process – to the Church. It will set them free > – for Christianity is freedom, first of all. And then the Holy Land will > remain the socle of the Cross, not the base of Antichrist. > Why are Xtians always going on about the "sacrifice …of Christ?"  Is it > not true that *thousands* of people were crucified during Roman times? > Did they suffer any less, because they weren’t divine?  Why to they get > dismissed as just some poor schlocks, while JC gets all the attention? > — > MarkA > (still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)

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> Take your kids to the movie > By Israel Shamir > The film of Mel Gibson, The Passion, grows into an important, maybe > the important event of the year. Even before screening, it caused > violent reactions of the American Jewish ‘thought police’, ADL led by > obnoxious Foxman. There are unpleasant rumours (in the New York Times) > that Mr Gibson gave in and decided to censor the Gospel. I hope it is

… I’m taking my children to see this portrayal of the perfidy of the Christkillers. They need to be shown the blood and gore that surrounds the Christillers and Masonic devil worshippers. And if I get just one more call from CPS that I am violating my custody agreement by taking them to see an R-rated film (R-rated by the Jew York City types), I’ll kill the bitch. No Christian jury will do a single thing to me. CPS can’t tell me my kids can’t see the truth about the Christkillers. –Tim May

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To the newsgroups: alt.atheism,soc.culture.jewish, rec.arts.movies.current-films,rec.arts.sf.written, rec.travel.air – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Take your kids to the movie > By Israel Shamir > The film of Mel Gibson, The Passion, grows into an important, maybe > the important event of the year. Even before screening, it caused > violent reactions of the American Jewish ‘thought police’, ADL led by > obnoxious Foxman. There are unpleasant rumours (in the New York Times) > that Mr Gibson gave in and decided to censor the Gospel. I hope it is >… >I’m taking my children to see this portrayal of the perfidy of the >Christkillers. They need to be shown the blood and gore that surrounds >the Christillers and Masonic devil worshippers. >And if I get just one more call from CPS that I am violating my custody >agreement by taking them to see an R-rated film (R-rated by the Jew >York City types), I’ll kill the bitch. No Christian jury will do a >single thing to me. >CPS can’t tell me my kids can’t see the truth about the Christkillers.

I’d give this about a D+, maybe a C-.  Definitely well into the Room For Improvement category.  Just the same, it’s good to see you trolls trying less boringly conventional tactics, and working together.  Keep at it.  It’s probably just a matter of finding exactly the right combination of groups; *somewhere* on Usenet, there’s almost bound to be someone — perhaps even several someones — stupid enough to actually take you seriously.  (Then again, that requires that they a) be even dumber than you are, and b) still be capable of using a computer, so maybe not.  You might do better to try trolling each other; it’s quite unlikely that you’re all at exactly the same level of retardation.) — Bill Snyder   [This space unintentionally left blank.]

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@posting.google.com: > Take your kids to the movie

(snip) Why bother?  Read the book, it sucked, why would I think the movie would be any better? — Woden "religion is a socio-political institution for the control of people’s thoughts, lives, and actions; based on ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."

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Take your kids to the movie By Israel Shamir The film of Mel Gibson, The Passion, grows into an important, maybe the important event of the year. Even before screening, it caused violent reactions of the American Jewish ‘thought police’, ADL led by obnoxious Foxman. There are unpleasant rumours (in the New York Times) that Mr Gibson gave in and decided to censor the Gospel. I hope it is not true, for a man who can give in and cut the Gospel is not worthy to make a film about Golgotha. ‘To change even one letter in the Bible is like to destroy the world’, says the Jewish wisdom, and I concur: if the Gospel, the most important part of the Bible, tells us of the High Priest of Jews that he accepted his responsibility for the verdict, Mr Gibson is not entitled to change it, even he were to be crucified himself. Naturally, the High Priest of antisemitism fighters, Abe Foxman, the guy who took bribe from Marc Rich the thief, is not worried about placid American Goyim attacking the innocent Jews. First, it is not bloody likely. Even if the Jews were to crucify Christ today in prime time on CNN, the Americans won’t dare to object. Secondly, every attack on a Jew brings cash to Abe Foxman; he thrives on strife. He is worried about something else. Foxman and other enemies of Gibson’s film are worried that the young American kids of some Jewish background, like kids of Vermont Governor Dean, or many of our readers, will see the movie and never again will call themselves ‘Jews’ anymore. Foxman, Bronfman et al are worried that these kids – and grown ups – will take themselves to the church, while these leaders will remain with assorted retired folk in Florida. Their worries are our hopes. There many good people who by mistake or by ignorance consider themselves ‘Jews’. For this mistake they pay dearly: they are forced to fight against ‘the Jews’ while supporting the setup. I saw something similar in Russia, where many good people called themselves ‘communists’ in the days of Brezhnev. They had to justify or condemn invasion of Afghanistan from extremely uncomfortable position. But they had no choice in the USSR of those days. But now, there is no need for any good person to call him/herself a Jew anymore. The Church always welcomed these good people of Jewish origin to her bosom. They are welcome, and the film of Gibson hopefully will bring them – away from Foxman and Caiaphas to Christ. But this beautiful plan can’t be implemented by way of ideological and theological compromise. The Church is open for the good people, and the separation of lambs from goats is promised beginning of the Last Judgement. Now, appearance of the Mel Gibson’s film provides us with opportunity to separate lambs from goats. The Washington columnist Joe Sobran wrote to me: ‘the Mel Gibson’s movie is being accused of "antisemitism" just for presenting the Gospel story. Have you noticed that Christianity, the Catholic Church, the popes, Martin Luther, many of the most eminent Christian authors, and the Gospels themselves are constantly called antisemitic? But not Jesus himself! Why not? Obviously someone is trying to tell us something with all these charges of antisemitism. Here is a man who antagonized the Jewish authorities of his day, incurring all their fury, and who has inspired TWO THOUSAND YEARS of antisemitism! Why does He get off the hook? Why don’t they just come out and accuse Him? That’s plainly what they’re driving at. So let them say it. Remember, when they talk about "antisemitism" they’re really talking about Jesus Christ. If they won’t say it, we should’. Indeed, this film can wake up the American Christians to the supreme sacrifice and glory of Christ. It will bring American ‘Jews’ to the crown of their long assimilation process – to the Church. It will set them free – for Christianity is freedom, first of all. And then the Holy Land will remain the socle of the Cross, not the base of Antichrist. http://www.israelshamir.net/english/gibson.shtml

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Question:

Which part of "off topic" in the subject was not understood? Cripes– it’s not like there’s not a TON of spam and porn sites being posted to the group already. At least this is people talking.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Can’t you people take this discussion, argument, opinions to one of > the other 5,000 religious, parenting, etc.. whatever newsgroups out > there??  Really now, this is an automotive newsgroup, otherwise you’ll > get others out here wanting to discuss the finer points of Janet > Jackson’s wardrobe choices also…  Man! >I don’t know Jebus. >Your comment shows, however, how unaware you are of what is going on around >you. >Snowman message >> Yeah Jebus will solve everything. >> What utter bullshit. The root cause of the Columbine incident was >piss-poor >> parenting, NOT anything having to do with any religious sect. >> > >>Columbine update >> <religious psycho-babble snipped>

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WHEW!!!   I wasn’t going to respond to this but I had to put my two cents in.  I’ve been an athiest, an agnostic and a christian and I can tell you the Christian part actually works.  I base my opinion on two things.  The first is personal experience.  I was lying in a burn unit years ago with little chance of survival and I had what one would call a "religious expeience" but failed to recognize it until almost 23 years later – it was significant.  I can tell you that after this happened, my condition improved significantly very quickly. The second was when I did research and discovered that people that used prayer or were prayed for by others (even without their knowledge) faired better and healed faster than those who did not pray or were not prayed for.  That being said, I shuld mention that I’m not a religious zealot and I have a different view of some of the events mentioned in the bible than most people.  Nuf said.  Rich B

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"burntkat IS AT comcast.net"  wrote > I do not fear nor seek to destroy any particula way– I just happen to be > able to see the absolutel hypocracy in ALL forms of organized religion. To > not put too fine a point on it, I’m something of a student of religions, > see. The problem in that equation is the human condition. Give someone a way > to seize power, and they will. It is the rare individual who can resist > this, and they are more than outweighed by the masses who can’t resist.

Organized religion doesn’t have a monopoly on the type of behaviour you are describing.  You rightly say "the human condition is the problem in the equation".  The big problem is that organized religions claims are often so high, that the hypocrisy is very obvious. But really, religious or non-religious…the vast majority of us are very hypocritical. What hypocrisy can’t change is whether the message of a particular religion (which may be from "outside" the human condition) is true or not.  The followers often are very poor examples of what was originally intended…but in Christianity, if you understand the theology of it….this is really to be expected and should hardly be considered abnormal.  > Why is it whenever you try to discuss things like this with "true believers" > they imediately think you’re out to tear them down? Sorry– that’s been done > well enough by Christianity, during the Crusades and even the modern day > with Missionaries <we’ll build you a water well, but you have to convert to > our narrow-minded view first>.

I can tell you from personal experience….(my parents were missionaries, and I grew up with them overseas) that not all missionaries spread the "good news" in this way, with strings attached.  Sure, there is lots of bad stuff happening, but again….it’s usually "bad" people that carry out those bad acts….which…if you understand the theology and structure of a religion, can’t really be reconciled with the intent of the religion. I do happen to agree with you, prayer has its place, but some good honest parenting goes a lot further when bringing up your children. Both have their place, but the good parenting has got to be in place first. Ian

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good points, Ian! Snowman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "burntkat IS AT comcast.net"  wrote > I do not fear nor seek to destroy any particula way– I just happen to be > able to see the absolutel hypocracy in ALL forms of organized religion. To > not put too fine a point on it, I’m something of a student of religions, > see. The problem in that equation is the human condition. Give someone a > way > to seize power, and they will. It is the rare individual who can resist > this, and they are more than outweighed by the masses who can’t resist. > Organized religion doesn’t have a monopoly on the type of > behaviour you are describing.  You rightly say "the human condition > is the problem in the equation".  The big problem is that organized > religions claims are often so high, that the hypocrisy is very obvious. > But really, religious or non-religious…the vast majority of us are > very hypocritical. > What hypocrisy can’t change is whether the message of a particular > religion (which may be from "outside" the human condition) is true > or not.  The followers often are very poor examples of what was > originally intended…but in Christianity, if you understand the > theology of it….this is really to be expected and should hardly be > considered abnormal. >  > Why is it whenever you try to discuss things like this with "true > believers" > they imediately think you’re out to tear them down? Sorry– that’s been > done > well enough by Christianity, during the Crusades and even the modern day > with Missionaries <we’ll build you a water well, but you have to convert > to > our narrow-minded view first>. > I can tell you from personal experience….(my parents were missionaries, > and I grew up with them overseas) that not all missionaries spread the > "good news" in this way, with strings attached.  Sure, there is lots of bad > stuff happening, but again….it’s usually "bad" people that carry out those > bad acts….which…if you understand the theology and structure of a > religion, can’t really be reconciled with the intent of the religion. > I do happen to agree with you, prayer has its place, but some good > honest parenting goes a lot further when bringing up your children. > Both have their place, but the good parenting has got to be in > place first. > Ian

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At the head of this, it said "Off Topic."  Shades did right in doing so. Occasionally, it’s good to get on other routes with folks who have common interests, though.  We’re all adults, here and can handle ourselves fine. We’re having a good discussion, here.  If it says off topic, then bypass it if you choose :-) Snowman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Can’t you people take this discussion, argument, opinions to one of > the other 5,000 religious, parenting, etc.. whatever newsgroups out > there??  Really now, this is an automotive newsgroup, otherwise you’ll > get others out here wanting to discuss the finer points of Janet > Jackson’s wardrobe choices also…  Man! >I don’t know Jebus. >Your comment shows, however, how unaware you are of what is going on around >you. >Snowman message >> Yeah Jebus will solve everything. >> What utter bullshit. The root cause of the Columbine incident was >piss-poor >> parenting, NOT anything having to do with any religious sect. >> > >>Columbine update >> <religious psycho-babble snipped>

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Can’t you people take this discussion, argument, opinions to one of the other 5,000 religious, parenting, etc.. whatever newsgroups out there??  Really now, this is an automotive newsgroup, otherwise you’ll get others out here wanting to discuss the finer points of Janet Jackson’s wardrobe choices also…  Man! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I don’t know Jebus. >Your comment shows, however, how unaware you are of what is going on around >you. >Snowman > Yeah Jebus will solve everything. > What utter bullshit. The root cause of the Columbine incident was >piss-poor > parenting, NOT anything having to do with any religious sect. > > >>Columbine update > <religious psycho-babble snipped>

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‘absolute hypocrisy, ‘narrow-minded’… attacks like that is what can put even the mild mannered on the defensive…   Everyone is entitled to their opinion, that is true enough, and I am not bashing you. Please don’t think I am.    I am saying that by using terms like those I listed above from your last post, you do not make yourself out to be very open minded yourself.    Christianity is simple, do right! It is allot harder to do right, but not everything in life can be easy to accomplish.    You DO have many good and very valid points in your last post. FAR to many people have claimed to be doing Gods work only to steal your life savings and knock-up your Daughter… But comparing all Christians to the likes of those types, is wrong.    I hope I didn’t miss the mark on this and I apologize if I did. I am a work in progress. | Again– take a step back, and realize I am not out to "destroy" your beliefs | or anything. More to the point, we agree more than we disagree. | | I do not fear nor seek to destroy any particula way– I just happen to be | able to see the absolutel hypocracy in ALL forms of organized religion. To | not put too fine a point on it, I’m something of a student of religions, | see. The problem in that equation is the human condition. Give someone a way | to seize power, and they will. It is the rare individual who can resist | this, and they are more than outweighed by the masses who can’t resist. | | I know the history behind the bible, and how it was changed to suit | particular powers-that-be throughout history. <King James, anyone?> | | While I discount it’s being the "one true way", I don’t discount the | message. I have respect for Christianity, but not for the multitudes who | pervert it to their own greed…. Sharpton, Falwell, Roberts, numerous folks | I know personally, etc… | | Why is it whenever you try to discuss things like this with "true believers" | they imediately think you’re out to tear them down? Sorry– that’s been done | well enough by Christianity, during the Crusades and even the modern day | with Missionaries <we’ll build you a water well, but you have to convert to | our narrow-minded view first>. | | Sorry my view is misperceived here- I feel like I’ve been saying the same | thing over and over, so this will be my last on this subject, barring | anything insightful. |

| >    I made this post because there are many out there that feel as I do. I | do not fault others for their | > beliefs. Most haven’t been given a choice. I was raised a Christian, | rejected it whole heartedly in my early | > teen years(and that is an understatement), and only recently(past 2+ yrs) | have found my way back to the ‘path’! | >    I have entertained many religions, beliefs, what-have-you in my 34 | years of life. I didn’t go to God, he | > came to me and pulled me from the depths that threatened to drown me. I AM | a believer in the Father, the Son, | > and the Holy Spirit! I am more than willing to listen openly and honestly | to your testimony against my beliefs | > or for other beliefs, but only if you will return the same respect and | listen to my testimony! | >    I am not perfect, never claimed to be! I am not always right, not even | usually right! I do not have all the | > answers, actually hundreds of times more questions than answers! I stumble | and fall far more times than I stand | > tall, though that ratio is leaning more towards standing tall! My mistakes | are many, as are my fears, worries, | > etc, etc… | >    What I am trying to say is to fight human nature, DO NOT fear what you | don’t understand! DO NOT try to | > destroy what you don’t understand! The ‘you’ in those two lines was not in | any way directed to and one person | > or group of people! | > | >    YES, Parenting needs to be removed from the courts control and placed | back into the hands of the Parent. | > BUT, Parenting is NOT television! Parenting is NOT beating your Child into | submission! Parenting is NOT molding | > your Child into what you want them to be! Parenting is NOT giving your | Child everything you never had! | >    I see Parenting as a joint learning experience, for the Father, Mother, | and Child! Your Child might be 3, | > 14, 21, or older, you can still learn as much from them as they can and | have learned from you. There is no | > manual to be the perfect Parent, but there is Basic Instructions Before | Leaving Earth…B.I.B.L.E… | > | >    I might have opened some Minds and Hearts, I might have opened some | cans of worms. Either way, most of you | > are thinking…that is always good!!! | > | > | > | > | >>Columbine update | > | >> | > | >>Guess our national leaders didn’t expect this, hmm? On Thursday, | Darrell | > | >>Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High | School | > | >>shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the House | > | >>Judiciary Committee’s subcommittee. What he said to our national | leaders | > | >>during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful. They | were | > | >>not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It | needs to | > | >>be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every | > | >>sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! | > | >> | > | >>These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, | penetrating, | > | >>and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a | voice | > | >>crying in the wilderness. The following is a portion of the | transcript: | > | >> | > | >>"Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the | hearts | > | >>of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of | > | >>violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and | the | > | >>deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died | must | > | >>not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers." | > | >> | > | >>"The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother | Abel | > | >>out in the field. The villain was not the club he used. Neither was it | the | > | >>NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the | > | >>reason for the murder could only be found in Cain’s heart." | > | >> | > | >>"In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how | > | >>quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am | not a | > | >>member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am | not | > | >>here to represent or defend the NRA – because I don’t believe that | they | > | >>are responsible for my daughter’s death. Therefore I do not believe | that | > | >>they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with | > | >>Rachel’s murder I would be their strongest opponent." | > | >> | > | >>"I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy-it | was a | > | >>spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real | blame | > | >>lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies | > | >>behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. | > | >> | > | >>"I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best. | This | > | >>was written way before I knew I would be speaking here today": | > | >> | > | >>Your laws ignore our deepest needs, | > | >>Your words are empty air. | > | >>You’ve stripped away our heritage, | > | >>You’ve outlawed simple prayer. | > | >>Now gunshots fill our classrooms, | > | >>And precious children die. | > | >>You seek for answers everywhere, | > | >>And ask the question "Why?" | > | >>You regulate restrictive laws, | > | >>Through legislative creed. | > | >>And yet you fail to understand, | > | >>That God is what we need! | > | >> | > | >>Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, soul, and | > | >>spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we | > | >>create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and | wreak | > | >>havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems | for | > | >>most of our nation’s history. Many of our major colleges began as | > | >>theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. | > | >> | > | >>What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and | in | > | >>so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something | as | > | >>terrible as Columbine’s tragedy occurs – politicians immediately look | for | > | >>a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more | > | >>restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and | private | > | >>liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. | > | >> | > | >>"Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No | amount | > | >>of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of | > | >>massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts. Political | posturing | > | >>and restrictive legislation are not the answers. The young people of | our | > | >>nation hold the key. There is a spiritual awakening taking place that | will | > | >>not be squelched! We do not need more religion. We do not need more | gaudy | > | >>television evangelists spewing out verbal religious garbage. We do not | > | >>need more million dollar church buildings built while people with | basic | > | >>needs are being ignored. We DO need a change of heart and a humble | > | >>acknowledgment that this nation was founded on the principle of simple | > | >>trust in God!" | > | >> | > | >>"As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw | his | > | >>two friends murdered … read more »

Response:

Again- don’t get me wrong, I understand where you’re coming from. However, the immediate solution to the problem is proper parenting. Perhaps one should pray for these idiots having children to start parenting insted of just letting the children run their own lives? ;) You and I agree about 98% here, you just don’t understand ;)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> whoops…          …feathers ruffled, so the point got missed. > My friend, I will take a stand, though.  DO NOT discount the power of > prayer.  Prayer isn’t about "me" and most folks don’t understand this.  I am > a living testimony that there is more power in prayer, though, than you may > ever know.  January 3rd, I fell from a gooseneck trailer, spent the next few > days in ICU, had exploratory surgery on the 6th and lost a kidney.  I was > home on the 9th after being told I’d be there at least a week afterward. I > was healing faster than they thought I could.  I was told I may be able to > think about working in 6-8 weeks.  On the 20th, I was back to work. That’s > this January 2004.  This weekend, I washed both my trucks because I COULD. > There were more people praying for me across this old planet than I can > think and it shows.  Prayer is much more than surface deep and it takes > study and diligence to understand it’s significance. > My point is that if you want a religious debate, then go jack up someone > that’s religious.  I’m not into religion because religion sucks. Religious > people are the ones causing most of the trouble in the world.  In fact, if > you want to get right down to it, the religious people are the ones that > exclaimed "crucify Him." > Now, if you want to talk about a relationship where you can walk right up > and lay your burdens at His feet, be forgiven (not perfect, just forgiven) > then drop me a line.  I’ll talk with you about a life that is so full that > you will never know what happened to you.  I was once where you are and I > understand, totally, what you are saying and respect it.  Do I say these > things at risk of losing respect of those in this group?  Sure, because most > back away from someone that will say the "J" word.  But at what cost?  If > you’re willing to talk about it, then we’ll put it on the table.  No one’s > gonna do anything but give you a choice. > Man, this is WAY off topic.  Good stuff, though. > Snowman > No- my comment shows how narrow-minded the Christian majority is of other > viewpoints. > Put simply: you dismiss my comments out of hand, since I’m not a "true > believer" of the supposed "one true way". > – I don’t dismiss your viewpoint- merely explained the REAL issue at hand > here. Praying to some mystical invisible man upstairs isn’t going to fix > what could have been fixed by parents doing their job. Namely, the parents > of the two fuckwits who perpetrated the incident. > No amount of praying is going to substitute for guiding and shaping young > people. > After all– to borrow a paraphrasd quote from your own Bible: "God helps > those who help themselves". Note the subtext: he’s NOT going to help you > if > you sit around waiting for him to do all the work. > > I don’t know Jebus. > > Your comment shows, however, how unaware you are of what is going on > around > > you. > > Snowman > message > > > Yeah Jebus will solve everything. > > > What utter bullshit. The root cause of the Columbine incident was > > piss-poor > > > parenting, NOT anything having to do with any religious sect. > > > > >>Columbine update > > > <religious psycho-babble snipped>

Response:

Again– take a step back, and realize I am not out to "destroy" your beliefs or anything. More to the point, we agree more than we disagree. I do not fear nor seek to destroy any particula way– I just happen to be able to see the absolutel hypocracy in ALL forms of organized religion. To not put too fine a point on it, I’m something of a student of religions, see. The problem in that equation is the human condition. Give someone a way to seize power, and they will. It is the rare individual who can resist this, and they are more than outweighed by the masses who can’t resist. I know the history behind the bible, and how it was changed to suit particular powers-that-be throughout history. <King James, anyone?> While I discount it’s being the "one true way", I don’t discount the message. I have respect for Christianity, but not for the multitudes who pervert it to their own greed…. Sharpton, Falwell, Roberts, numerous folks I know personally, etc… Why is it whenever you try to discuss things like this with "true believers" they imediately think you’re out to tear them down? Sorry– that’s been done well enough by Christianity, during the Crusades and even the modern day with Missionaries <we’ll build you a water well, but you have to convert to our narrow-minded view first>. Sorry my view is misperceived here- I feel like I’ve been saying the same thing over and over, so this will be my last on this subject, barring anything insightful.

>    I made this post because there are many out there that feel as I do. I

do not fault others for their > beliefs. Most haven’t been given a choice. I was raised a Christian,

rejected it whole heartedly in my early > teen years(and that is an understatement), and only recently(past 2+ yrs)

have found my way back to the ‘path’! >    I have entertained many religions, beliefs, what-have-you in my 34

years of life. I didn’t go to God, he > came to me and pulled me from the depths that threatened to drown me. I AM

a believer in the Father, the Son, > and the Holy Spirit! I am more than willing to listen openly and honestly

to your testimony against my beliefs > or for other beliefs, but only if you will return the same respect and

listen to my testimony! >    I am not perfect, never claimed to be! I am not always right, not even

usually right! I do not have all the > answers, actually hundreds of times more questions than answers! I stumble

and fall far more times than I stand > tall, though that ratio is leaning more towards standing tall! My mistakes

are many, as are my fears, worries, > etc, etc… >    What I am trying to say is to fight human nature, DO NOT fear what you

don’t understand! DO NOT try to > destroy what you don’t understand! The ‘you’ in those two lines was not in

any way directed to and one person > or group of people! >    YES, Parenting needs to be removed from the courts control and placed

back into the hands of the Parent. > BUT, Parenting is NOT television! Parenting is NOT beating your Child into

submission! Parenting is NOT molding > your Child into what you want them to be! Parenting is NOT giving your

Child everything you never had! >    I see Parenting as a joint learning experience, for the Father, Mother,

and Child! Your Child might be 3, > 14, 21, or older, you can still learn as much from them as they can and

have learned from you. There is no > manual to be the perfect Parent, but there is Basic Instructions Before

Leaving Earth…B.I.B.L.E… >    I might have opened some Minds and Hearts, I might have opened some

cans of worms. Either way, most of you > are thinking…that is always good!!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> | >>Columbine update > | >> > | >>Guess our national leaders didn’t expect this, hmm? On Thursday, Darrell > | >>Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School > | >>shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the House > | >>Judiciary Committee’s subcommittee. What he said to our national leaders > | >>during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful. They were > | >>not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It needs to > | >>be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every > | >>sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! > | >> > | >>These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, > | >>and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice > | >>crying in the wilderness. The following is a portion of the transcript: > | >> > | >>"Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the hearts > | >>of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of > | >>violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the > | >>deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must > | >>not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers." > | >> > | >>"The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel > | >>out in the field. The villain was not the club he used. Neither was it the > | >>NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the > | >>reason for the murder could only be found in Cain’s heart." > | >> > | >>"In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how > | >>quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a > | >>member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not > | >>here to represent or defend the NRA – because I don’t believe that they > | >>are responsible for my daughter’s death. Therefore I do not believe that > | >>they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with > | >>Rachel’s murder I would be their strongest opponent." > | >> > | >>"I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy-it was a > | >>spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame > | >>lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies > | >>behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. > | >> > | >>"I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best. This > | >>was written way before I knew I would be speaking here today": > | >> > | >>Your laws ignore our deepest needs, > | >>Your words are empty air. > | >>You’ve stripped away our heritage, > | >>You’ve outlawed simple prayer. > | >>Now gunshots fill our classrooms, > | >>And precious children die. > | >>You seek for answers everywhere, > | >>And ask the question "Why?" > | >>You regulate restrictive laws, > | >>Through legislative creed. > | >>And yet you fail to understand, > | >>That God is what we need! > | >> > | >>Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, soul, and > | >>spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we > | >>create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak > | >>havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems for > | >>most of our nation’s history. Many of our major colleges began as > | >>theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. > | >> > | >>What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in > | >>so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as > | >>terrible as Columbine’s tragedy occurs – politicians immediately look for > | >>a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more > | >>restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private > | >>liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. > | >> > | >>"Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount > | >>of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of > | >>massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts. Political posturing > | >>and restrictive legislation are not the answers. The young people of our > | >>nation hold the key. There is a spiritual awakening taking place that will > | >>not be squelched! We do not need more religion. We do not need more gaudy > | >>television evangelists spewing out verbal religious garbage. We do not > | >>need more million dollar church buildings built while people with basic > | >>needs are being ignored. We DO need a change of heart and a humble > | >>acknowledgment that this nation was founded on the principle of simple > | >>trust in God!" > | >> > | >>"As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his > | >>two friends murdered before his very eyes-He did not hesitate to pray in > | >>school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge > | >>every young person in America, and around the world, to realize that on > | >>April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our > | >>schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. > | >>Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for > | >>legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To > | >>those of you who would point your finger at the NRA – I give to you a > | >>sincere challenge. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first > | >>stone! My daughter’s death will not be in vain! The young people of this > | >>country will not allow that to happen!" > | >> > | >> > | >>Do what the media did not – - let the nation hear this man’s speech. > | >>Please send this out. > | >> > | > | > | > | > |

Response:

man, I just heard about that a couple minutes ago.  I watched until that kid rock guy came out and I couldn’t bare to listen to his mouth.  Didn’t know the rest of what went on until today.  My wife and kids watched it and didn’t say a word about it. Unbelievable, isn’t it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> No, not at all. – and I hope that you don’t take my reply as a slam to you > or any particular religion, either. > I was just making the point that there’s a time and a place for prayer, and > a time to take proactive action against the obvious root cause of a problem. > I agree, in a different context, that there is a lot of desensitization in > the media. Take the damned Super Bowl halftime show last night, for one! The > costumes were just this side of a BDSM fantasy show…… > By the way, my comment to your response was not intended as a slam against > you, burntkat, so I hope it doesn’t get taken as one.  There is so much > desensitizing in the media that society has lost it’s foundation for right > and wrong.  The standards have been tossed aside, to where anyone can > judge > right and wrong according to their own selves. > Shades, good article, in my opinion. > Snowman > > I hear what you’re saying, but I still think they are over-simplifying > > the issue. > > Sorry, there’s times to put things to fate or higher power, and > > there’s times to realize the problem and take active measures to > > correct it. > > Parents need to start parenting. Simple enough. > > <yes, I AM a parent> > > My mention of the phrase "religious sect" was to cover all bases– > > since as you observed, no particular sect is mentioned. > > – and besides– WHICH God is it that we’re missing? <student of the > > world’s spiritualities here, you see> > > > There wasn’t any reference to a religious sect! It is referring to the > worlds path away from God! > message > > > | Yeah Jebus will solve everything. > > > | > > > | What utter bullshit. The root cause of the Columbine incident was > piss-poor > > > | parenting, NOT anything having to do with any religious sect. > > > | > > > | > > > | > > > | > >>Columbine update > > > | <religious psycho-babble snipped> > > > | > > > |

Response:

   I made this post because there are many out there that feel as I do. I do not fault others for their beliefs. Most haven’t been given a choice. I was raised a Christian, rejected it whole heartedly in my early teen years(and that is an understatement), and only recently(past 2+ yrs) have found my way back to the ‘path’!    I have entertained many religions, beliefs, what-have-you in my 34 years of life. I didn’t go to God, he came to me and pulled me from the depths that threatened to drown me. I AM a believer in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit! I am more than willing to listen openly and honestly to your testimony against my beliefs or for other beliefs, but only if you will return the same respect and listen to my testimony!    I am not perfect, never claimed to be! I am not always right, not even usually right! I do not have all the answers, actually hundreds of times more questions than answers! I stumble and fall far more times than I stand tall, though that ratio is leaning more towards standing tall! My mistakes are many, as are my fears, worries, etc, etc…    What I am trying to say is to fight human nature, DO NOT fear what you don’t understand! DO NOT try to destroy what you don’t understand! The ‘you’ in those two lines was not in any way directed to and one person or group of people!    YES, Parenting needs to be removed from the courts control and placed back into the hands of the Parent. BUT, Parenting is NOT television! Parenting is NOT beating your Child into submission! Parenting is NOT molding your Child into what you want them to be! Parenting is NOT giving your Child everything you never had!    I see Parenting as a joint learning experience, for the Father, Mother, and Child! Your Child might be 3, 14, 21, or older, you can still learn as much from them as they can and have learned from you. There is no manual to be the perfect Parent, but there is Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth…B.I.B.L.E…    I might have opened some Minds and Hearts, I might have opened some cans of worms. Either way, most of you are thinking…that is always good!!!

| >>Columbine update | >> | >>Guess our national leaders didn’t expect this, hmm? On Thursday, Darrell | >>Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School | >>shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the House | >>Judiciary Committee’s subcommittee. What he said to our national leaders | >>during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful. They were | >>not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It needs to | >>be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every | >>sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! | >> | >>These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, | >>and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice | >>crying in the wilderness. The following is a portion of the transcript: | >> | >>"Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the hearts | >>of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of | >>violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the | >>deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must | >>not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers." | >> | >>"The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel | >>out in the field. The villain was not the club he used. Neither was it the | >>NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the | >>reason for the murder could only be found in Cain’s heart." | >> | >>"In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how | >>quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a | >>member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not | >>here to represent or defend the NRA – because I don’t believe that they | >>are responsible for my daughter’s death. Therefore I do not believe that | >>they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with | >>Rachel’s murder I would be their strongest opponent." | >> | >>"I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy-it was a | >>spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame | >>lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies | >>behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. | >> | >>"I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best. This | >>was written way before I knew I would be speaking here today": | >> | >>Your laws ignore our deepest needs, | >>Your words are empty air. | >>You’ve stripped away our heritage, | >>You’ve outlawed simple prayer. | >>Now gunshots fill our classrooms, | >>And precious children die. | >>You seek for answers everywhere, | >>And ask the question "Why?" | >>You regulate restrictive laws, | >>Through legislative creed. | >>And yet you fail to understand, | >>That God is what we need! | >> | >>Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, soul, and | >>spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we | >>create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak | >>havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems for | >>most of our nation’s history. Many of our major colleges began as | >>theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. | >> | >>What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in | >>so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as | >>terrible as Columbine’s tragedy occurs – politicians immediately look for | >>a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more | >>restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private | >>liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. | >> | >>"Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount | >>of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of | >>massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts. Political posturing | >>and restrictive legislation are not the answers. The young people of our | >>nation hold the key. There is a spiritual awakening taking place that will | >>not be squelched! We do not need more religion. We do not need more gaudy | >>television evangelists spewing out verbal religious garbage. We do not | >>need more million dollar church buildings built while people with basic | >>needs are being ignored. We DO need a change of heart and a humble | >>acknowledgment that this nation was founded on the principle of simple | >>trust in God!" | >> | >>"As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his | >>two friends murdered before his very eyes-He did not hesitate to pray in | >>school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge | >>every young person in America, and around the world, to realize that on | >>April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our | >>schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. | >>Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for | >>legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To | >>those of you who would point your finger at the NRA – I give to you a | >>sincere challenge. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first | >>stone! My daughter’s death will not be in vain! The young people of this | >>country will not allow that to happen!" | >> | >> | >>Do what the media did not – - let the nation hear this man’s speech. | >>Please send this out. | >> | | | | |

Response:

Sorry BK, but that quote does not appear in the bible. However "spare the rod and spoil the child"  certainly is ;) — Computer Tips & Tweaks Builds/Upgrades/Repairs www.acon-pchelp.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> No- my comment shows how narrow-minded the Christian majority is of other > viewpoints. > Put simply: you dismiss my comments out of hand, since I’m not a "true > believer" of the supposed "one true way". > – I don’t dismiss your viewpoint- merely explained the REAL issue at hand > here. Praying to some mystical invisible man upstairs isn’t going to fix > what could have been fixed by parents doing their job. Namely, the parents > of the two fuckwits who perpetrated the incident. > No amount of praying is going to substitute for guiding and shaping young > people. > After all– to borrow a paraphrasd quote from your own Bible: "God helps > those who help themselves". Note the subtext: he’s NOT going to help you if > you sit around waiting for him to do all the work. > I don’t know Jebus. > Your comment shows, however, how unaware you are of what is going on > around > you. > Snowman message > > Yeah Jebus will solve everything. > > What utter bullshit. The root cause of the Columbine incident was > piss-poor > > parenting, NOT anything having to do with any religious sect. > > > >>Columbine update > > <religious psycho-babble snipped>

Response:

whoops…          …feathers ruffled, so the point got missed. My friend, I will take a stand, though.  DO NOT discount the power of prayer.  Prayer isn’t about "me" and most folks don’t understand this.  I am a living testimony that there is more power in prayer, though, than you may ever know.  January 3rd, I fell from a gooseneck trailer, spent the next few days in ICU, had exploratory surgery on the 6th and lost a kidney.  I was home on the 9th after being told I’d be there at least a week afterward.  I was healing faster than they thought I could.  I was told I may be able to think about working in 6-8 weeks.  On the 20th, I was back to work.  That’s this January 2004.  This weekend, I washed both my trucks because I COULD. There were more people praying for me across this old planet than I can think and it shows.  Prayer is much more than surface deep and it takes study and diligence to understand it’s significance. My point is that if you want a religious debate, then go jack up someone that’s religious.  I’m not into religion because religion sucks.  Religious people are the ones causing most of the trouble in the world.  In fact, if you want to get right down to it, the religious people are the ones that exclaimed "crucify Him." Now, if you want to talk about a relationship where you can walk right up and lay your burdens at His feet, be forgiven (not perfect, just forgiven) then drop me a line.  I’ll talk with you about a life that is so full that you will never know what happened to you.  I was once where you are and I understand, totally, what you are saying and respect it.  Do I say these things at risk of losing respect of those in this group?  Sure, because most back away from someone that will say the "J" word.  But at what cost?  If you’re willing to talk about it, then we’ll put it on the table.  No one’s gonna do anything but give you a choice. Man, this is WAY off topic.  Good stuff, though. Snowman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> No- my comment shows how narrow-minded the Christian majority is of other > viewpoints. > Put simply: you dismiss my comments out of hand, since I’m not a "true > believer" of the supposed "one true way". > – I don’t dismiss your viewpoint- merely explained the REAL issue at hand > here. Praying to some mystical invisible man upstairs isn’t going to fix > what could have been fixed by parents doing their job. Namely, the parents > of the two fuckwits who perpetrated the incident. > No amount of praying is going to substitute for guiding and shaping young > people. > After all– to borrow a paraphrasd quote from your own Bible: "God helps > those who help themselves". Note the subtext: he’s NOT going to help you if > you sit around waiting for him to do all the work. > I don’t know Jebus. > Your comment shows, however, how unaware you are of what is going on > around > you. > Snowman message > > Yeah Jebus will solve everything. > > What utter bullshit. The root cause of the Columbine incident was > piss-poor > > parenting, NOT anything having to do with any religious sect. > > > >>Columbine update > > <religious psycho-babble snipped>

Response:

Yeah Jebus will solve everything. What utter bullshit. The root cause of the Columbine incident was piss-poor parenting, NOT anything having to do with any religious sect.

>>Columbine update

<religious psycho-babble snipped>

Response:

   There wasn’t any reference to a religious sect! It is referring to the worlds path away from God! | Yeah Jebus will solve everything. | | What utter bullshit. The root cause of the Columbine incident was piss-poor | parenting, NOT anything having to do with any religious sect. | | |

| > >>Columbine update | <religious psycho-babble snipped> | |

Response:

I don’t know Jebus. Your comment shows, however, how unaware you are of what is going on around you. Snowman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yeah Jebus will solve everything. > What utter bullshit. The root cause of the Columbine incident was piss-poor > parenting, NOT anything having to do with any religious sect. > >>Columbine update > <religious psycho-babble snipped>

Response:

I hear what you’re saying, but I still think they are over-simplifying the issue. Sorry, there’s times to put things to fate or higher power, and there’s times to realize the problem and take active measures to correct it. Parents need to start parenting. Simple enough. <yes, I AM a parent> My mention of the phrase "religious sect" was to cover all bases– since as you observed, no particular sect is mentioned. – and besides– WHICH God is it that we’re missing? <student of the world’s spiritualities here, you see> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > There wasn’t any reference to a religious sect! It is referring to the worlds path away from God! > | Yeah Jebus will solve everything. > | > | What utter bullshit. The root cause of the Columbine incident was piss-poor > | parenting, NOT anything having to do with any religious sect. > | > | > | > | > >>Columbine update > | <religious psycho-babble snipped> > | > |

Response:

No- my comment shows how narrow-minded the Christian majority is of other viewpoints. Put simply: you dismiss my comments out of hand, since I’m not a "true believer" of the supposed "one true way". – I don’t dismiss your viewpoint- merely explained the REAL issue at hand here. Praying to some mystical invisible man upstairs isn’t going to fix what could have been fixed by parents doing their job. Namely, the parents of the two fuckwits who perpetrated the incident. No amount of praying is going to substitute for guiding and shaping young people. After all– to borrow a paraphrasd quote from your own Bible: "God helps those who help themselves". Note the subtext: he’s NOT going to help you if you sit around waiting for him to do all the work.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I don’t know Jebus. > Your comment shows, however, how unaware you are of what is going on around > you. > Snowman > Yeah Jebus will solve everything. > What utter bullshit. The root cause of the Columbine incident was > piss-poor > parenting, NOT anything having to do with any religious sect. > > >>Columbine update > <religious psycho-babble snipped>

Response:

No, not at all. – and I hope that you don’t take my reply as a slam to you or any particular religion, either. I was just making the point that there’s a time and a place for prayer, and a time to take proactive action against the obvious root cause of a problem. I agree, in a different context, that there is a lot of desensitization in the media. Take the damned Super Bowl halftime show last night, for one! The costumes were just this side of a BDSM fantasy show……

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> By the way, my comment to your response was not intended as a slam against > you, burntkat, so I hope it doesn’t get taken as one.  There is so much > desensitizing in the media that society has lost it’s foundation for right > and wrong.  The standards have been tossed aside, to where anyone can judge > right and wrong according to their own selves. > Shades, good article, in my opinion. > Snowman > I hear what you’re saying, but I still think they are over-simplifying > the issue. > Sorry, there’s times to put things to fate or higher power, and > there’s times to realize the problem and take active measures to > correct it. > Parents need to start parenting. Simple enough. > <yes, I AM a parent> > My mention of the phrase "religious sect" was to cover all bases– > since as you observed, no particular sect is mentioned. > – and besides– WHICH God is it that we’re missing? <student of the > world’s spiritualities here, you see> > > There wasn’t any reference to a religious sect! It is referring to the > worlds path away from God! > message > > | Yeah Jebus will solve everything. > > | > > | What utter bullshit. The root cause of the Columbine incident was > piss-poor > > | parenting, NOT anything having to do with any religious sect. > > | > > | > > | > > | > >>Columbine update > > | <religious psycho-babble snipped> > > | > > |

Response:

By the way, my comment to your response was not intended as a slam against you, burntkat, so I hope it doesn’t get taken as one.  There is so much desensitizing in the media that society has lost it’s foundation for right and wrong.  The standards have been tossed aside, to where anyone can judge right and wrong according to their own selves. Shades, good article, in my opinion. Snowman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I hear what you’re saying, but I still think they are over-simplifying > the issue. > Sorry, there’s times to put things to fate or higher power, and > there’s times to realize the problem and take active measures to > correct it. > Parents need to start parenting. Simple enough. > <yes, I AM a parent> > My mention of the phrase "religious sect" was to cover all bases– > since as you observed, no particular sect is mentioned. > – and besides– WHICH God is it that we’re missing? <student of the > world’s spiritualities here, you see>

> There wasn’t any reference to a religious sect! It is referring to the

worlds path away from God! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – message > | Yeah Jebus will solve everything. > | > | What utter bullshit. The root cause of the Columbine incident was piss-poor > | parenting, NOT anything having to do with any religious sect. > | > | > | > | > >>Columbine update > | <religious psycho-babble snipped> > | > |

Response:

Shades, I don’t think I have your email address anymore.  Drop me a line at Snowman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Columbine update >>Guess our national leaders didn’t expect this, hmm? On Thursday, Darrell >>Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School >>shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the House >>Judiciary Committee’s subcommittee. What he said to our national leaders >>during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful. They were >>not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It needs to >>be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every >>sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! >>These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, >>and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice >>crying in the wilderness. The following is a portion of the transcript: >>"Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the hearts >>of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of >>violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the >>deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must >>not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers." >>"The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel >>out in the field. The villain was not the club he used. Neither was it the >>NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the >>reason for the murder could only be found in Cain’s heart." >>"In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how >>quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a >>member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not >>here to represent or defend the NRA – because I don’t believe that they >>are responsible for my daughter’s death. Therefore I do not believe that >>they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with >>Rachel’s murder I would be their strongest opponent." >>"I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy-it was a >>spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame >>lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies >>behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. >>"I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best. This >>was written way before I knew I would be speaking here today": >>Your laws ignore our deepest needs, >>Your words are empty air. >>You’ve stripped away our heritage, >>You’ve outlawed simple prayer. >>Now gunshots fill our classrooms, >>And precious children die. >>You seek for answers everywhere, >>And ask the question "Why?" >>You regulate restrictive laws, >>Through legislative creed. >>And yet you fail to understand, >>That God is what we need! >>Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, soul, and >>spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we >>create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak >>havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems for >>most of our nation’s history. Many of our major colleges began as >>theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. >>What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in >>so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as >>terrible as Columbine’s tragedy occurs – politicians immediately look for >>a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more >>restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private >>liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. >>"Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount >>of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of >>massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts. Political posturing >>and restrictive legislation are not the answers. The young people of our >>nation hold the key. There is a spiritual awakening taking place that will >>not be squelched! We do not need more religion. We do not need more gaudy >>television evangelists spewing out verbal religious garbage. We do not >>need more million dollar church buildings built while people with basic >>needs are being ignored. We DO need a change of heart and a humble >>acknowledgment that this nation was founded on the principle of simple >>trust in God!" >>"As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his >>two friends murdered before his very eyes-He did not hesitate to pray in >>school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge >>every young person in America, and around the world, to realize that on >>April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our >>schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. >>Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for >>legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To >>those of you who would point your finger at the NRA – I give to you a >>sincere challenge. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first >>stone! My daughter’s death will not be in vain! The young people of this >>country will not allow that to happen!" >>Do what the media did not – - let the nation hear this man’s speech. >>Please send this out.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Columbine update >Guess our national leaders didn’t expect this, hmm? On Thursday, Darrell >Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School >shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the House >Judiciary Committee’s subcommittee. What he said to our national leaders >during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful. They were >not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It needs to >be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every >sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! >These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, >and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice >crying in the wilderness. The following is a portion of the transcript: >"Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the hearts >of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of >violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the >deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must >not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers." >"The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel >out in the field. The villain was not the club he used. Neither was it the >NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the >reason for the murder could only be found in Cain’s heart." >"In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how >quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a >member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not >here to represent or defend the NRA – because I don’t believe that they >are responsible for my daughter’s death. Therefore I do not believe that >they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with >Rachel’s murder I would be their strongest opponent." >"I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy-it was a >spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame >lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies >behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. >"I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best. This >was written way before I knew I would be speaking here today": >Your laws ignore our deepest needs, >Your words are empty air. >You’ve stripped away our heritage, >You’ve outlawed simple prayer. >Now gunshots fill our classrooms, >And precious children die. >You seek for answers everywhere, >And ask the question "Why?" >You regulate restrictive laws, >Through legislative creed. >And yet you fail to understand, >That God is what we need! >Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, soul, and >spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we >create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak >havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems for >most of our nation’s history. Many of our major colleges began as >theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. >What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in >so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as >terrible as Columbine’s tragedy occurs – politicians immediately look for >a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more >restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private >liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. >"Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount >of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of >massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts. Political posturing >and restrictive legislation are not the answers. The young people of our >nation hold the key. There is a spiritual awakening taking place that will >not be squelched! We do not need more religion. We do not need more gaudy >television evangelists spewing out verbal religious garbage. We do not >need more million dollar church buildings built while people with basic >needs are being ignored. We DO need a change of heart and a humble >acknowledgment that this nation was founded on the principle of simple >trust in God!" >"As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his >two friends murdered before his very eyes-He did not hesitate to pray in >school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge >every young person in America, and around the world, to realize that on >April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our >schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. >Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for >legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To >those of you who would point your finger at the NRA – I give to you a >sincere challenge. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first >stone! My daughter’s death will not be in vain! The young people of this >country will not allow that to happen!" >Do what the media did not – - let the nation hear this man’s speech. >Please send this out.

Response:

Question:

> There was an interesting story in the paper the other day. It was about a > guy who is climbing the tallest peaks on every continent. Turns out it is > Bob Keeshan’s son

Grandson, actually, and his name is Britton Keeshan. http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/entertainment/7817292.htm

Response:

There was an interesting story in the paper the other day. It was about a guy who is climbing the tallest peaks on every continent. Turns out it is Bod Keeshan’s son, I forget his first name though. (btw – this appeared in the Boston Globe so is not a hoax) tx Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was suprised nobody posted this. Good bye Capt. > Mike > MONTPELIER, Vt. – Bob Keeshan spent a lifetime as Captain Kangaroo, > welcoming millions of children into his television family. > It was a menagerie, with Mr. Moose, Dancing Bear, Miss Frog and Bunny > Rabbit. > And there were the inanimate objects that came to life: Grandfather > Clock and the Magic Drawing Board. > But there was no mistaking who the gentle father figure was: the > walrus-mustachioed captain himself. > Keeshan, who lived in Hartford, Vt., died Friday of a long illness at > a hospital in Windsor, his family said. He was 76. > "Our father, grandfather and friend was as passionate for his family > as he was for America’s children," according to a statement issued by > his family, including his son and two daughters. "He was largely a > private man living an often public life as an advocate for all that > our nation’s children deserve." > "Captain Kangaroo" premiered on CBS in 1955 and ran for 30 years > before moving to public television for six more. It was wildly popular > among children and won six Emmy Awards and three Peabody Awards. > Each day, Captain Kangaroo – with his sugar-bowl haircut and a uniform > coat with big pouch pockets that inspired the character’s name – would > wander through his Treasure House, chatting with his good friend Mr. > Green Jeans, played by Hugh "Lumpy" Brannum who died in 1987. > On the way, he would visit with puppet animals, like Bunny Rabbit, who > was scolded for eating too many carrots, and Mr. Moose, who loved to > tell knock-knock jokes. > Psychologist Dr. Joyce Brothers, who spent three seasons on the show, > called it "a wonderful service for children and parents." > "Parents could turn on the TV with complete security that what was > shown wouldn’t be harmful in any way," Brothers said. > Keeshan, born in Lynbrook, N.Y., became a page at NBC while he was in > high school. He joined the Marine Corps in 1945. > His first television appearance came in 1948, when he played the > voiceless, horn-honking Clarabell the Clown on the "Howdy Doody Show," > a role he created and played for five years. > "Captain Kangaroo" debuted on Oct. 3, 1955. After the PBS show ended > in 1992, Keeshan continued to play the role for a time in videos and > public appearances. > "Bob Keeshan was a true pioneer in children’s television whose legacy > goes unmatched," CBS chairman Leslie Moonves said. "He was a great > entertainer, showman and innovator, and he will always hold a special > place in the history of CBS and the hearts of television viewers." > While the show seemed like an impromptu walk through a child’s ideal > playground, it was smartly scripted, said Peggy Charren, founder of > Action for Children’s Television. > "He never did anything that would disappoint you," Charren said. "He > was a constant in lives that were not always full of constants." > Keeshan, who moved to Vermont in 1990, also remained active as a > children’s advocate, writing books, lecturing and lobbying. Keeshan’s > wife, Jeanne, died in 1990. > In 1998 he successfully lobbied for creation of the children’s > checkoff on the Vermont income tax form. Money raised by the checkoff > goes to support numerous children’s programs. > Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean (news – web sites), who worked with > Keeshan to enact the program, called him "one of the country’s most > revered icons." > Keeshan criticized today’s TV programs for children as too full of > violence. And he spoke wherever he went about the importance of good > parenting. > "Parents are the ultimate role models for children," he said. "Every > word, movement and action has an effect. No other person or outside > force has a greater influence on a child than the parent." > When Fred Rogers, the gentle host of "Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood," > died last year, Keeshan recalled how they often spoke about the state > of children’s programming. > "I don’t think it’s any secret that Fred and I were not very happy > with the way children’s television had gone," Keeshan said. > As for "Barney and Friends," Keeshan found the popular 1990s show > gentle but boring – "what we used to call `a program in a telephone > booth.’" > "There’s no room to stretch," Keeshan said in 1993. "They have to > break out and get away from that and build more characters and build > other aspects to the show." > Keeshan believed children learn more in the first six years of life > than at any other time and argued for day care that provides > emotional, physical and intellectual development for children. > "Play is the work of children. It’s very serious stuff. And if it’s > properly structured in a developmental program, children can blossom," > he said. > Drop PANTS before emailing. > An education teaches you that you don’t know everything. > Intelligence means you know where to find the information you are lacking. > mgbio

Response:

> I liked Mr. Greenjeans. > Mary > I always liked Mr. Moose and Dancing Bear as a 5 yr. old.  :(

i was a little old for that show..but my younger sister who is now deceased loved it..especially mr greenjeans..and i used to watch it with her all the time…lots of memories there… annie

Response:

I liked Mr. Greenjeans. Mary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I always liked Mr. Moose and Dancing Bear as a 5 yr. old.  :(

Response:

Dear William– Do you know how to tell the difference between facts and Internet garbage? This story about Keeshan is entirely apocryphal. As the following life chronology shows, Keeshan wa not even in the armed forces at the time of the landing at Iwo Jima–in fact, he wouldn’t have been old enough to even be in the Marines for the landing at Iwo Jima. Also, see the link below, which debunks the Lee Marvin-Iwo Jima story as Internet myth: http://www.who2.com/bobkeeshan.html I might add that your credulity on this point casts doubt on the overall reliability and truthfulness of your postings. BOB KEESHAN. Born in New York City, New York, U.S.A., 27 June 1927. Attended Fordham University, 1946-49. Served in United States Marine Corps Reserve, 1945-46. Married: Anne Jeanne Laurie, 1950; children: Michael Derek, Laurie Margaret, and Maeve Jeanne. Began career as Clarabell for NBC-TV’s Howdy Doody Show, 1947-52; appeared as Corny the Clown (ABC-TV), 1953-55, and Tinker the Toymaker (ABC-TV), 1954-55; starred as Captain Kangaroo (CBS-TV), 1955-85; president of Robert Keeshan Associates, from 1955; appeared as Mr. Mayor and the Town Clown (CBS-TV), 1964-65; president, Suffolk County Hearing and Speech Center, 1966-71; director of Marvin Josephson Associates, Inc, New York., 1969-77; director of Bank of Babylon, New York, 1973-79; chair, board of trustees, College of New Rochelle, New York, 1974-80; director of Anchor Savings Bank, 1976-91; chair, Council of Governing Boards, 1979-80; commentator, CBS-Radio, 1980-82; television commentator, 1981-82. Member: Board of Education, West Islip, New York, 1953-58; board of directors, Good Samaritan Hospital, West Islip, New York, 1969-78. Honorary Degrees: D. of Pedagogy, Rhode Island College, 1969; D.H.L. Alfred University, 1969; D.F.A., Fordham University, 1975; Litt.D., Indiana State University, 1978; L.L.D., Elmira (New York) University, 1980; D.L., Marquette University, 1983; D.P.S., Central Michigan University, 1984; D.H.L., St. Joseph College, 1987. Honorary Fellow: American Academy of Pediatrics. Recipient: Sylvania Award, 1956; Peabody Award, 1958, 1972, 1979; American Education Award, Education Industries Association, 1978; Distinguished Achievement Award, Georgia Radio and TV Institute-Pi Gamma Kappa, 1978; Emmy Awards,1978, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984; TV Father of the Year, 1980; James E. Allen Memorial Award, 1981; Distinguished Service to Children Award, 1981; National Education Award, 1982; American Heart Association National Public Affairs Recognition Award, 1987; Frances Holleman Breathitt Award for Excellence, Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts, 1987; Clown Hall of Fame, 1990; AMA Distinguished Service Award, 1991.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was suprised nobody posted this. Good bye Capt. > Mike >  I remember the ping-pong balls raining down on Mr. Moose. >  Speaking of Capt. Kagaroo and Mr. Rogers, here’s some other lesser > known merits about them. God bless them both. >  Here are two amazing stories about people we all know and love. Keep > reading to the end because the second story is even more surprising > than the first. > Quite a few of us grew up with Captain Kangaroo, as you or your > children probably did. I knew nothing of his background, only that his > show was both entertaining, educational, and as kids, we looked > forward to it with great anticipation. Captain Kangaroo turned 76 > recently, which is odd, because he’s never looked a day under 76 . > (DOB: 6/27/27) It reminded me of the following story. Hope you enjoy > it as much as I did. > Some people have been a bit offended that Lee Marvin is buried in a > grave alongside 3 and 4 star generals at Arlington National Cemetery. > His marker gives his name, rank (PVT) and service (USMC). Nothing > else. Here’s a guy who was only a famous movie star who served his > time, why the heck does he rate > burial with these guys? > Well, following is the amazing answer: > I always liked Lee Marvin, but did not know the extent of his Corps > experiences. In a time when many Hollywood stars served their country > in the armed forces, often in rear-echelon posts where they were > carefully protected, only to be trotted out to perform for the cameras > in war bond promotions, Lee Marvin was a genuine hero. He won the Navy > Cross at Iwo Jima. There is only one higher Naval award… the Medal > Of Honor. > If that is a surprising comment on the true character of the man, he > credits his sergeant with an even greater show of bravery. > Dialog from The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson: His guest was Lee > Marvin. Johnny said, "Lee, I’ll bet a lot of people are unaware that > you were a Marine in the initial landing at Iwo Jima… and that > during the course of that action you earned the Navy Cross and were > severely wounded." > "Yeah, yeah… I got shot square in the butt and they gave me the > Cross for securing a hot spot about halfway up Suribachi …bad thing > about getting shot up on a mountain is guys gettin’ shot hauling you > down. > But Johnny, at Iwo I served under the bravest man I ever knew… We > both got the Cross the same day, but what he did for his Cross made > mine look cheap in comparison. The dumb > guy actually stood up on Red Beach and directed his troops to move > forward and get the hell off the beach. That Sergeant and I have been > lifelong friends. When they brought me off Suribachi we passed the > Sergeant and he lit a smoke and passed it to me lying on my belly on > the litter and said, ‘Where’d they get you Lee?’ Well Bob… if you > make it home before me, > tell Mom to sell the outhouse! Johnny, I’m not lying… Sergeant > Keeshan was the bravest man I ever knew….. Bob Keeshan… You and > the world know him as Captain Kangaroo." > On another note, there was this wimpy little man (who just passed > away) on PBS, gentle and quite. Mr. Rogers is another on those you > would least suspect of being anything but what he now portrays to our > youth. But Mr. Rogers was a U.S. Navy Seal, combat proven in Vietnam > with over twenty-five confirmed > kills to his name. He wore a long sleeve sweater to cover the many > tattoos on his forearm and biceps. A master in small arms and > hand-to-hand combat, his was able to disarm or kill in a heartbeat. He > hid that away and won our hearts with his quiet wit and charm. > America’s real heroes don’t flaunt what they did, they quietly go > about their day to day lives, doing what they do best. They earned our > respect and the freedom’s that we all enjoy. > MONTPELIER, Vt. – Bob Keeshan spent a lifetime as Captain Kangaroo, > welcoming millions of children into his television family. > It was a menagerie, with Mr. Moose, Dancing Bear, Miss Frog and Bunny > Rabbit. > And there were the inanimate objects that came to life: Grandfather > Clock and the Magic Drawing Board. > But there was no mistaking who the gentle father figure was: the > walrus-mustachioed captain himself. > Keeshan, who lived in Hartford, Vt., died Friday of a long illness at > a hospital in Windsor, his family said. He was 76. > "Our father, grandfather and friend was as passionate for his family > as he was for America’s children," according to a statement issued by > his family, including his son and two daughters. "He was largely a > private man living an often public life as an advocate for all that > our nation’s children deserve." > "Captain Kangaroo" premiered on CBS in 1955 and ran for 30 years > before moving to public television for six more. It was wildly popular > among children and won six Emmy Awards and three Peabody Awards. > Each day, Captain Kangaroo ? with his sugar-bowl haircut and a uniform > coat with big pouch pockets that inspired the character’s name ? would > wander through his Treasure House, chatting with his good friend Mr. > Green Jeans, played by Hugh "Lumpy" Brannum who died in 1987. > On the way, he would visit with puppet animals, like Bunny Rabbit, who > was scolded for eating too many carrots, and Mr. Moose, who loved to > tell knock-knock jokes. > Psychologist Dr. Joyce Brothers, who spent three seasons on the show, > called it "a wonderful service for children and parents." > "Parents could turn on the TV with complete security that what was > shown wouldn’t be harmful in any way," Brothers said. > Keeshan, born in Lynbrook, N.Y., became a page at NBC while he was in > high school. He joined the Marine Corps in 1945. > His first television appearance came in 1948, when he played the > voiceless, horn-honking Clarabell the Clown on the "Howdy Doody Show," > a role he created and played for five years. > "Captain Kangaroo" debuted on Oct. 3, 1955. After the PBS show ended > in 1992, Keeshan continued to play the role for a time in videos and > public appearances. > "Bob Keeshan was a true pioneer in children’s television whose legacy > goes unmatched," CBS chairman Leslie Moonves said. "He was a great > entertainer, showman and innovator, and he will always hold a special > place in the history of CBS and the hearts of television viewers." > While the show seemed like an impromptu walk through a child’s ideal > playground, it was smartly scripted, said Peggy Charren, founder of > Action for Children’s Television. > "He never did anything that would disappoint you," Charren said. "He > was a constant in lives that were not always full of constants." > Keeshan, who moved to Vermont in 1990, also remained active as a > children’s advocate, writing books, lecturing and

… read more »

Response:

I certainly spent many an hour watching the Captain and cast of characters. Bunny Rabbit and Mr Green Jeans were my favorites. I was too old for Mr Rogers and always thought he was on psilocyibin, or something. tx Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was suprised nobody posted this. Good bye Capt. > Mike > MONTPELIER, Vt. – Bob Keeshan spent a lifetime as Captain Kangaroo, > welcoming millions of children into his television family. > It was a menagerie, with Mr. Moose, Dancing Bear, Miss Frog and Bunny > Rabbit. > And there were the inanimate objects that came to life: Grandfather > Clock and the Magic Drawing Board. > But there was no mistaking who the gentle father figure was: the > walrus-mustachioed captain himself. > Keeshan, who lived in Hartford, Vt., died Friday of a long illness at > a hospital in Windsor, his family said. He was 76. > "Our father, grandfather and friend was as passionate for his family > as he was for America’s children," according to a statement issued by > his family, including his son and two daughters. "He was largely a > private man living an often public life as an advocate for all that > our nation’s children deserve." > "Captain Kangaroo" premiered on CBS in 1955 and ran for 30 years > before moving to public television for six more. It was wildly popular > among children and won six Emmy Awards and three Peabody Awards. > Each day, Captain Kangaroo – with his sugar-bowl haircut and a uniform > coat with big pouch pockets that inspired the character’s name – would > wander through his Treasure House, chatting with his good friend Mr. > Green Jeans, played by Hugh "Lumpy" Brannum who died in 1987. > On the way, he would visit with puppet animals, like Bunny Rabbit, who > was scolded for eating too many carrots, and Mr. Moose, who loved to > tell knock-knock jokes. > Psychologist Dr. Joyce Brothers, who spent three seasons on the show, > called it "a wonderful service for children and parents." > "Parents could turn on the TV with complete security that what was > shown wouldn’t be harmful in any way," Brothers said. > Keeshan, born in Lynbrook, N.Y., became a page at NBC while he was in > high school. He joined the Marine Corps in 1945. > His first television appearance came in 1948, when he played the > voiceless, horn-honking Clarabell the Clown on the "Howdy Doody Show," > a role he created and played for five years. > "Captain Kangaroo" debuted on Oct. 3, 1955. After the PBS show ended > in 1992, Keeshan continued to play the role for a time in videos and > public appearances. > "Bob Keeshan was a true pioneer in children’s television whose legacy > goes unmatched," CBS chairman Leslie Moonves said. "He was a great > entertainer, showman and innovator, and he will always hold a special > place in the history of CBS and the hearts of television viewers." > While the show seemed like an impromptu walk through a child’s ideal > playground, it was smartly scripted, said Peggy Charren, founder of > Action for Children’s Television. > "He never did anything that would disappoint you," Charren said. "He > was a constant in lives that were not always full of constants." > Keeshan, who moved to Vermont in 1990, also remained active as a > children’s advocate, writing books, lecturing and lobbying. Keeshan’s > wife, Jeanne, died in 1990. > In 1998 he successfully lobbied for creation of the children’s > checkoff on the Vermont income tax form. Money raised by the checkoff > goes to support numerous children’s programs. > Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean (news – web sites), who worked with > Keeshan to enact the program, called him "one of the country’s most > revered icons." > Keeshan criticized today’s TV programs for children as too full of > violence. And he spoke wherever he went about the importance of good > parenting. > "Parents are the ultimate role models for children," he said. "Every > word, movement and action has an effect. No other person or outside > force has a greater influence on a child than the parent." > When Fred Rogers, the gentle host of "Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood," > died last year, Keeshan recalled how they often spoke about the state > of children’s programming. > "I don’t think it’s any secret that Fred and I were not very happy > with the way children’s television had gone," Keeshan said. > As for "Barney and Friends," Keeshan found the popular 1990s show > gentle but boring – "what we used to call `a program in a telephone > booth.’" > "There’s no room to stretch," Keeshan said in 1993. "They have to > break out and get away from that and build more characters and build > other aspects to the show." > Keeshan believed children learn more in the first six years of life > than at any other time and argued for day care that provides > emotional, physical and intellectual development for children. > "Play is the work of children. It’s very serious stuff. And if it’s > properly structured in a developmental program, children can blossom," > he said. > Drop PANTS before emailing. > An education teaches you that you don’t know everything. > Intelligence means you know where to find the information you are lacking. > mgbio

Response:

I was skeptical on the Captain being a war hero but the thought of Mr. Roger’s squatting alongside Jessie Ventura, weapons in hand, really blew the roof off of the ruse. tx Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > {re Lee Marvin} > But Johnny, at Iwo I served under the bravest man I ever knew… <snip> > Bob Keeshan… You and > the world know him as Captain Kangaroo." > http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl-marvin-keeshan.htm > On another note, there was this wimpy little man (who just passed > away) on PBS, gentle and quite. Mr. Rogers is another on those you > would least suspect of being anything but what he now portrays to our > youth. But Mr. Rogers was a U.S. Navy Seal, combat proven in Vietnam > with over twenty-five confirmed > kills to his name. <snip> > http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl-mr-rogers.htm > Sorry!  The stories were so charming, striking, and even believable, I had > to check them out! > ep

Response:

{re Lee Marvin} > But Johnny, at Iwo I served under the bravest man I ever knew… <snip>

Bob Keeshan… You and > the world know him as Captain Kangaroo."

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl-marvin-keeshan.htm > On another note, there was this wimpy little man (who just passed > away) on PBS, gentle and quite. Mr. Rogers is another on those you > would least suspect of being anything but what he now portrays to our > youth. But Mr. Rogers was a U.S. Navy Seal, combat proven in Vietnam > with over twenty-five confirmed > kills to his name. <snip>

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl-mr-rogers.htm Sorry!  The stories were so charming, striking, and even believable, I had to check them out! ep

Response:

Thanks William!  These two were part of my family me & my brother with the Captain and my son with both of them.  I would never have thought of them in the military for some reason.  I guess it was because they were so gentle and fun loving.  Thanks Again.  UM MOM Susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was suprised nobody posted this. Good bye Capt. > Mike >  I remember the ping-pong balls raining down on Mr. Moose. >  Speaking of Capt. Kagaroo and Mr. Rogers, here’s some other lesser > known merits about them. God bless them both. >  Here are two amazing stories about people we all know and love. Keep > reading to the end because the second story is even more surprising > than the first. > Quite a few of us grew up with Captain Kangaroo, as you or your > children probably did. I knew nothing of his background, only that his > show was both entertaining, educational, and as kids, we looked > forward to it with great anticipation. Captain Kangaroo turned 76 > recently, which is odd, because he’s never looked a day under 76 . > (DOB: 6/27/27) It reminded me of the following story. Hope you enjoy > it as much as I did. > Some people have been a bit offended that Lee Marvin is buried in a > grave alongside 3 and 4 star generals at Arlington National Cemetery. > His marker gives his name, rank (PVT) and service (USMC). Nothing > else. Here’s a guy who was only a famous movie star who served his > time, why the heck does he rate > burial with these guys? > Well, following is the amazing answer: > I always liked Lee Marvin, but did not know the extent of his Corps > experiences. In a time when many Hollywood stars served their country > in the armed forces, often in rear-echelon posts where they were > carefully protected, only to be trotted out to perform for the cameras > in war bond promotions, Lee Marvin was a genuine hero. He won the Navy > Cross at Iwo Jima. There is only one higher Naval award… the Medal > Of Honor. > If that is a surprising comment on the true character of the man, he > credits his sergeant with an even greater show of bravery. > Dialog from The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson: His guest was Lee > Marvin. Johnny said, "Lee, I’ll bet a lot of people are unaware that > you were a Marine in the initial landing at Iwo Jima… and that > during the course of that action you earned the Navy Cross and were > severely wounded." > "Yeah, yeah… I got shot square in the butt and they gave me the > Cross for securing a hot spot about halfway up Suribachi …bad thing > about getting shot up on a mountain is guys gettin’ shot hauling you > down. > But Johnny, at Iwo I served under the bravest man I ever knew… We > both got the Cross the same day, but what he did for his Cross made > mine look cheap in comparison. The dumb > guy actually stood up on Red Beach and directed his troops to move > forward and get the hell off the beach. That Sergeant and I have been > lifelong friends. When they brought me off Suribachi we passed the > Sergeant and he lit a smoke and passed it to me lying on my belly on > the litter and said, ‘Where’d they get you Lee?’ Well Bob… if you > make it home before me, > tell Mom to sell the outhouse! Johnny, I’m not lying… Sergeant > Keeshan was the bravest man I ever knew….. Bob Keeshan… You and > the world know him as Captain Kangaroo." > On another note, there was this wimpy little man (who just passed > away) on PBS, gentle and quite. Mr. Rogers is another on those you > would least suspect of being anything but what he now portrays to our > youth. But Mr. Rogers was a U.S. Navy Seal, combat proven in Vietnam > with over twenty-five confirmed > kills to his name. He wore a long sleeve sweater to cover the many > tattoos on his forearm and biceps. A master in small arms and > hand-to-hand combat, his was able to disarm or kill in a heartbeat. He > hid that away and won our hearts with his quiet wit and charm. > America’s real heroes don’t flaunt what they did, they quietly go > about their day to day lives, doing what they do best. They earned our > respect and the freedom’s that we all enjoy. > MONTPELIER, Vt. – Bob Keeshan spent a lifetime as Captain Kangaroo, > welcoming millions of children into his television family. > It was a menagerie, with Mr. Moose, Dancing Bear, Miss Frog and Bunny > Rabbit. > And there were the inanimate objects that came to life: Grandfather > Clock and the Magic Drawing Board. > But there was no mistaking who the gentle father figure was: the > walrus-mustachioed captain himself. > Keeshan, who lived in Hartford, Vt., died Friday of a long illness at > a hospital in Windsor, his family said. He was 76. > "Our father, grandfather and friend was as passionate for his family > as he was for America’s children," according to a statement issued by > his family, including his son and two daughters. "He was largely a > private man living an often public life as an advocate for all that > our nation’s children deserve." > "Captain Kangaroo" premiered on CBS in 1955 and ran for 30 years > before moving to public television for six more. It was wildly popular > among children and won six Emmy Awards and three Peabody Awards. > Each day, Captain Kangaroo ? with his sugar-bowl haircut and a uniform > coat with big pouch pockets that inspired the character’s name ? would > wander through his Treasure House, chatting with his good friend Mr. > Green Jeans, played by Hugh "Lumpy" Brannum who died in 1987. > On the way, he would visit with puppet animals, like Bunny Rabbit, who > was scolded for eating too many carrots, and Mr. Moose, who loved to > tell knock-knock jokes. > Psychologist Dr. Joyce Brothers, who spent three seasons on the show, > called it "a wonderful service for children and parents." > "Parents could turn on the TV with complete security that what was > shown wouldn’t be harmful in any way," Brothers said. > Keeshan, born in Lynbrook, N.Y., became a page at NBC while he was in > high school. He joined the Marine Corps in 1945. > His first television appearance came in 1948, when he played the > voiceless, horn-honking Clarabell the Clown on the "Howdy Doody Show," > a role he created and played for five years. > "Captain Kangaroo" debuted on Oct. 3, 1955. After the PBS show ended > in 1992, Keeshan continued to play the role for a time in videos and > public appearances. > "Bob Keeshan was a true pioneer in children’s television whose legacy > goes unmatched," CBS chairman Leslie Moonves said. "He was a great > entertainer, showman and innovator, and he will always hold a special > place in the history of CBS and the hearts of television viewers." > While the show seemed like an impromptu walk through a child’s ideal > playground, it was smartly scripted, said Peggy Charren, founder of > Action for Children’s Television. > "He never did anything that would disappoint you," Charren said. "He > was a constant in lives that were not always full of constants." > Keeshan, who moved to Vermont in 1990, also remained active as a > children’s advocate, writing books, lecturing and lobbying. Keeshan’s > wife, Jeanne, died in 1990. > In 1998 he successfully lobbied for creation of the children’s > checkoff on the Vermont income tax form. Money raised by the checkoff > goes to support numerous children’s programs. > Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean (news – web sites), who worked with > Keeshan to enact the program, called him "one of the country’s most > revered icons." > Keeshan criticized today’s TV programs for children as too full of > violence. And he spoke wherever he went about the importance of good > parenting. > "Parents are the ultimate role models for children," he said. "Every > word, movement and action has an effect. No other person or outside > force has a greater influence on a child than the parent." > When Fred Rogers, the gentle host of "Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood," > died last year, Keeshan recalled how they often spoke about the state > of children’s programming. > "I don’t think it’s any secret that Fred and I were not very happy > with the way children’s television had gone," Keeshan said. > As for "Barney and Friends," Keeshan found the popular 1990s show > gentle but boring ? "what we used to call `a program in a telephone > booth.’" > "There’s no room to stretch," Keeshan said in 1993. "They have to > break out and get away from that and build more characters and build > other aspects to the show." > Keeshan believed children learn more in the first six years of life > than at any other time and argued for day care that provides > emotional, physical and intellectual development for children. > "Play is the work of children. It’s very serious stuff. And if it’s > properly structured in a developmental program, children can blossom," > he said. > Drop PANTS before emailing. > An education teaches you that you don’t know everything. > Intelligence means you know where to find the information you are lacking. > mgbio

Response:

> I was suprised nobody posted this. Good bye Capt. > Mike

 I remember the ping-pong balls raining down on Mr. Moose.  Speaking of Capt. Kagaroo and Mr. Rogers, here’s some other lesser known merits about them. God bless them both.  Here are two amazing stories about people we all know and love. Keep reading to the end because the second story is even more surprising than the first. Quite a few of us grew up with Captain Kangaroo, as you or your children probably did. I knew nothing of his background, only that his show was both entertaining, educational, and as kids, we looked forward to it with great anticipation. Captain Kangaroo turned 76 recently, which is odd, because he’s never looked a day under 76 . (DOB: 6/27/27) It reminded me of the following story. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Some people have been a bit offended that Lee Marvin is buried in a grave alongside 3 and 4 star generals at Arlington National Cemetery. His marker gives his name, rank (PVT) and service (USMC). Nothing else. Here’s a guy who was only a famous movie star who served his time, why the heck does he rate burial with these guys? Well, following is the amazing answer: I always liked Lee Marvin, but did not know the extent of his Corps experiences. In a time when many Hollywood stars served their country in the armed forces, often in rear-echelon posts where they were carefully protected, only to be trotted out to perform for the cameras in war bond promotions, Lee Marvin was a genuine hero. He won the Navy Cross at Iwo Jima. There is only one higher Naval award… the Medal Of Honor. If that is a surprising comment on the true character of the man, he credits his sergeant with an even greater show of bravery. Dialog from The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson: His guest was Lee Marvin. Johnny said, "Lee, I’ll bet a lot of people are unaware that you were a Marine in the initial landing at Iwo Jima… and that during the course of that action you earned the Navy Cross and were severely wounded." "Yeah, yeah… I got shot square in the butt and they gave me the Cross for securing a hot spot about halfway up Suribachi …bad thing about getting shot up on a mountain is guys gettin’ shot hauling you down. But Johnny, at Iwo I served under the bravest man I ever knew… We both got the Cross the same day, but what he did for his Cross made mine look cheap in comparison. The dumb guy actually stood up on Red Beach and directed his troops to move forward and get the hell off the beach. That Sergeant and I have been lifelong friends. When they brought me off Suribachi we passed the Sergeant and he lit a smoke and passed it to me lying on my belly on the litter and said, ‘Where’d they get you Lee?’ Well Bob… if you make it home before me, tell Mom to sell the outhouse! Johnny, I’m not lying… Sergeant Keeshan was the bravest man I ever knew….. Bob Keeshan… You and the world know him as Captain Kangaroo." On another note, there was this wimpy little man (who just passed away) on PBS, gentle and quite. Mr. Rogers is another on those you would least suspect of being anything but what he now portrays to our youth. But Mr. Rogers was a U.S. Navy Seal, combat proven in Vietnam with over twenty-five confirmed kills to his name. He wore a long sleeve sweater to cover the many tattoos on his forearm and biceps. A master in small arms and hand-to-hand combat, his was able to disarm or kill in a heartbeat. He hid that away and won our hearts with his quiet wit and charm. America’s real heroes don’t flaunt what they did, they quietly go about their day to day lives, doing what they do best. They earned our respect and the freedom’s that we all enjoy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> MONTPELIER, Vt. – Bob Keeshan spent a lifetime as Captain Kangaroo, > welcoming millions of children into his television family. > It was a menagerie, with Mr. Moose, Dancing Bear, Miss Frog and Bunny > Rabbit. > And there were the inanimate objects that came to life: Grandfather > Clock and the Magic Drawing Board. > But there was no mistaking who the gentle father figure was: the > walrus-mustachioed captain himself. > Keeshan, who lived in Hartford, Vt., died Friday of a long illness at > a hospital in Windsor, his family said. He was 76. > "Our father, grandfather and friend was as passionate for his family > as he was for America’s children," according to a statement issued by > his family, including his son and two daughters. "He was largely a > private man living an often public life as an advocate for all that > our nation’s children deserve." > "Captain Kangaroo" premiered on CBS in 1955 and ran for 30 years > before moving to public television for six more. It was wildly popular > among children and won six Emmy Awards and three Peabody Awards. > Each day, Captain Kangaroo ? with his sugar-bowl haircut and a uniform > coat with big pouch pockets that inspired the character’s name ? would > wander through his Treasure House, chatting with his good friend Mr. > Green Jeans, played by Hugh "Lumpy" Brannum who died in 1987. > On the way, he would visit with puppet animals, like Bunny Rabbit, who > was scolded for eating too many carrots, and Mr. Moose, who loved to > tell knock-knock jokes. > Psychologist Dr. Joyce Brothers, who spent three seasons on the show, > called it "a wonderful service for children and parents." > "Parents could turn on the TV with complete security that what was > shown wouldn’t be harmful in any way," Brothers said. > Keeshan, born in Lynbrook, N.Y., became a page at NBC while he was in > high school. He joined the Marine Corps in 1945. > His first television appearance came in 1948, when he played the > voiceless, horn-honking Clarabell the Clown on the "Howdy Doody Show," > a role he created and played for five years. > "Captain Kangaroo" debuted on Oct. 3, 1955. After the PBS show ended > in 1992, Keeshan continued to play the role for a time in videos and > public appearances. > "Bob Keeshan was a true pioneer in children’s television whose legacy > goes unmatched," CBS chairman Leslie Moonves said. "He was a great > entertainer, showman and innovator, and he will always hold a special > place in the history of CBS and the hearts of television viewers." > While the show seemed like an impromptu walk through a child’s ideal > playground, it was smartly scripted, said Peggy Charren, founder of > Action for Children’s Television. > "He never did anything that would disappoint you," Charren said. "He > was a constant in lives that were not always full of constants." > Keeshan, who moved to Vermont in 1990, also remained active as a > children’s advocate, writing books, lecturing and lobbying. Keeshan’s > wife, Jeanne, died in 1990. > In 1998 he successfully lobbied for creation of the children’s > checkoff on the Vermont income tax form. Money raised by the checkoff > goes to support numerous children’s programs. > Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean (news – web sites), who worked with > Keeshan to enact the program, called him "one of the country’s most > revered icons." > Keeshan criticized today’s TV programs for children as too full of > violence. And he spoke wherever he went about the importance of good > parenting. > "Parents are the ultimate role models for children," he said. "Every > word, movement and action has an effect. No other person or outside > force has a greater influence on a child than the parent." > When Fred Rogers, the gentle host of "Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood," > died last year, Keeshan recalled how they often spoke about the state > of children’s programming. > "I don’t think it’s any secret that Fred and I were not very happy > with the way children’s television had gone," Keeshan said. > As for "Barney and Friends," Keeshan found the popular 1990s show > gentle but boring ? "what we used to call `a program in a telephone > booth.’" > "There’s no room to stretch," Keeshan said in 1993. "They have to > break out and get away from that and build more characters and build > other aspects to the show." > Keeshan believed children learn more in the first six years of life > than at any other time and argued for day care that provides > emotional, physical and intellectual development for children. > "Play is the work of children. It’s very serious stuff. And if it’s > properly structured in a developmental program, children can blossom," > he said. > Drop PANTS before emailing. > An education teaches you that you don’t know everything. > Intelligence means you know where to find the information you are lacking. > mgbio

Response:

I always liked Mr. Moose and Dancing Bear as a 5 yr. old.  :(

Response:

I always liked the Tom Terrific cartoons.  I used to get dressed for school while watching Captain Kangaroo, at least during the early 60s. Now I get ready for school with Mr. Rogers on tv (nice to have a little one around for an excuse).  Hard to believe we lost both in just a few months. Dwight – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was suprised nobody posted this. Good bye Capt. > Mike > MONTPELIER, Vt. – Bob Keeshan spent a lifetime as Captain Kangaroo, > welcoming millions of children into his television family. > It was a menagerie, with Mr. Moose, Dancing Bear, Miss Frog and Bunny > Rabbit. > And there were the inanimate objects that came to life: Grandfather > Clock and the Magic Drawing Board. > But there was no mistaking who the gentle father figure was: the > walrus-mustachioed captain himself. > Keeshan, who lived in Hartford, Vt., died Friday of a long illness at > a hospital in Windsor, his family said. He was 76. > "Our father, grandfather and friend was as passionate for his family > as he was for America’s children," according to a statement issued by > his family, including his son and two daughters. "He was largely a > private man living an often public life as an advocate for all that > our nation’s children deserve." > "Captain Kangaroo" premiered on CBS in 1955 and ran for 30 years > before moving to public television for six more. It was wildly popular > among children and won six Emmy Awards and three Peabody Awards. > Each day, Captain Kangaroo

Question:

> There is absolutely no way I would ever use violence to discipline a child. > Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent–it means that reasoning > power has failed.  Besides, what do you do when the kid starts hitting back? > There are people who say, "Violence never solved anything."  Ha! > Violence has settled more issues than dang near anything else in > history.  That does not mean that I think violence is *good*.  I have > the unpopular view that violence, while regrettable, has it’s place, > whether dealings are between humans or nations.

Oh, it has its place all right.  It can stop a behavior but doesn’t actually fix anything. > Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves > > stress.  What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood > > vessel one fine day? > I’d rather you didn’t let misfortunes and inconveniences get under your skin > in the first place  :) > I’m just drawn that way…

Maybe you need a better paintbrush… ;)

Response:

A > quick association of very minor pain to unwanted behavior is easily > established, however.  Uses hard-wired pain-avoidance genes to put a > stop to that behavior.

While many dog owners will disagree, I don’t equate dogs with  humans.  I do agree that swatting achild can be a method to stop the immediate misbehavior, but a side effect of that method is that instead of teaching respect and discipline, it gives the child fear and hate of the parent.  And once again, what do you do when the kid is too big to hit? > I’m not so sure it worked all that well.  Look at all the examples of > bad parenting – now think about the role model. > I can’t agree – all my anecdotal evidence (people I know who were > raised the same way I was) points the other way.  That is, my friends > who were spanked are without exceptions good parents with good > children who yes, also got spanked when the need arose.  I have > personal knowledge of many parents who abhore violence that the > thought of smacking a kid who have raised some perfect monsters.  I > know there is evidence both ways.  My gut tells me that spanking is > fine.

I was spanked as a child and grew up hating my dad behind it.  Violence serves the parent, it doesn’t serve the child.  I would never hit a child except if it was a teen with an adult body and mindset (who I didn’t know) and then only in self-defense.  More likely, I would just restrain them (Aikido training). > Physical punishment I personally find replsive.  it certainly is > criminal if it happens between adults, why should it be any less > criminal if it happens between an adult and a child.  Was it "for > their own good"? > The state puts people in prison and puts them on chain gangs, etc, as > ‘physical punishment’ for their misdeeds.  Some even put people to > death.  The state stands in loco parentis, in my opinion, when it > comes to maintaining a safe society for the law-abiding citizens. > That’s hardly criminal action by the state, unless you believe also > that criminals should not be locked up.

Prison guards don’t beat the inmates, though.  That’s called torture and is against federal law.  I’m not saying torture in prison doesn’t happen; it does, just that it’s illegal.  And I’m against the death penalty, too–too many innocent people framed by overzealous prosecutors. > By the same token, parents correct that child’s aberrant behavior by > direct physical punishment, and it serves the same purpose, especially > in a young child who is not capable yet of understanding a detailed > lecture on morality, rights, and duty to society.

ITA a toddler isn’t capable of understanding lectures of acceptable behavior, but I also maintain that whupping on a child is unacceptable and incompetent as a remedy. <snip> I mean that bad social skills (like driving as if you > own the road with no regard for anyone but yourself) are generally a > good indicator of what kind of parents they are, if indeed they are > parents.

I would opine that these people were raised by parents who wouldn’t discipline their children or teach them how to behave in society.  You can teach a child these things without smacking them around IMHO. > > > Then again, maybe some people are just happier when > > > they have something to complain about. > > I know I certainly am.  Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves > > stress.  What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood > > vessel one fine day? > I use other constructive methods to reduce stress.  I find hitting > that little white ball deep into the woods a great stress reliever. > I am on the road seven days a week.  No time for such things.  My > stress reliever is here on r.t.a.

An excellent idea, Bill.

Response:

> There is absolutely no way I would ever use violence to discipline a child. > Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent–it means that reasoning > power has failed.  Besides, what do you do when the kid starts hitting back?

There are people who say, "Violence never solved anything."  Ha! Violence has settled more issues than dang near anything else in history.  That does not mean that I think violence is *good*.  I have the unpopular view that violence, while regrettable, has it’s place, whether dealings are between humans or nations. > Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves > stress.  What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood > vessel one fine day? > I’d rather you didn’t let misfortunes and inconveniences get under your skin > in the first place  :)

I’m just drawn that way… Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Response:

> It takes all kinds.  I don’t think bad parents are created – I think > they started out as bad humans.

Honestly, I don’t know.  What I was hoping to communicate, however, was my belief that yes, bad ‘humans’ generally are not any better parents. > How about a rolled-up newspaper > across the hindquarters, followed by showing puppy where he should do > his bidness? > You think parenting and dog rearing should be managed the same way? > Well shoot – let’s just put them in little cages in the hold.

No, but I do think that puppies and small children have about the same attention span and level of mental acuity relative to an adult of the same species.  What I mean is that ‘explaining’ why screaming in public is not a Good Thing to a small child has about the same effect as ‘explaining’ to a puppy why they should not poop on the rug.  A quick association of very minor pain to unwanted behavior is easily established, however.  Uses hard-wired pain-avoidance genes to put a stop to that behavior. > I’m not so sure it worked all that well.  Look at all the examples of > bad parenting – now think about the role model.

I can’t agree – all my anecdotal evidence (people I know who were raised the same way I was) points the other way.  That is, my friends who were spanked are without exceptions good parents with good children who yes, also got spanked when the need arose.  I have personal knowledge of many parents who abhore violence that the thought of smacking a kid who have raised some perfect monsters.  I know there is evidence both ways.  My gut tells me that spanking is fine. > Physical punishment I personally find replsive.  it certainly is > criminal if it happens between adults, why should it be any less > criminal if it happens between an adult and a child.  Was it "for > their own good"?

The state puts people in prison and puts them on chain gangs, etc, as ‘physical punishment’ for their misdeeds.  Some even put people to death.  The state stands in loco parentis, in my opinion, when it comes to maintaining a safe society for the law-abiding citizens. That’s hardly criminal action by the state, unless you believe also that criminals should not be locked up. By the same token, parents correct that child’s aberrant behavior by direct physical punishment, and it serves the same purpose, especially in a young child who is not capable yet of understanding a detailed lecture on morality, rights, and duty to society. > I’m working in Orange County, CA this week.  The two-mile drive to > work is a real experience.  Lots of very expensive cars zooming in and > out of traffic, no turn signals, phones planted firmly on ears, speeds > about 20 mph over the limit on side-streets.  And it’s not just one or > two of them, it’s all of them.  Red lights mean you get another 6 or 7 > cars through the light before you really, really, have to stop.  If > your car costs more than $50,000 USD, you can park sideways across > three parking spots in the tight little cramped parking lots they have > here.  I have little doubt that these are the parents who I am > referring to in their parental capacity.  All about ‘me’ to hell with > society. > No doubt – but then again, how do you know that this behavior is > exclusive to parents?

Oh, I don’t!  I mean that bad social skills (like driving as if you own the road with no regard for anyone but yourself) are generally a good indicator of what kind of parents they are, if indeed they are parents. > > Then again, maybe some people are just happier when > > they have something to complain about. > I know I certainly am.  Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves > stress.  What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood > vessel one fine day? > I use other constructive methods to reduce stress.  I find hitting > that little white ball deep into the woods a great stress reliever.

I am on the road seven days a week.  No time for such things.  My stress reliever is here on r.t.a. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Response:

>You know what I find interesting is that whenever I hang around Asian babies, >toddlers, and other children, my ears are routinely spared any abuse at all. >I really don’t have any working theories as to why this is.  It’s just that, I >first, brace for sonic impact when I see the child…but then, I hear no noise. >It’s amazing.

except for singaporian babies……cry like banshees, later they grow up to be just as loud and crass…….

Response:

> > > You don’t have kids, do you? >    No thank goodness. But if I did I wouldnt take them flying. > Sure just lock them in a closet.  Don’t forget the muffle so their screams > won’t bother the neighbors.

  I will try Not to forget – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > > > know > > > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > > > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > > > Blue, with > > > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing > very > > > little to > > > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax > that > > > sat so close to it,. > > > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > > > into one of > > > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > > > his offensive > > > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > > > getting the > > > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > > > this. > > > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > > > special mask for > > > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the > infant, > > > it would > > > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > > > anyway at all. > > > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > I agree that screaming babies are the worst – and parents develop a > special sort of deafness that makes them not seem to hear it whenever > it would be inconvenient for them – but I’ve been through this fight > on r.t.a. before and I lost!  The solution is earplugs or headphones > for you, not a muffler for the kid. > Although frankly, the thought of duct tape, cling wrap, and cargo > holds for crying babies make me smile a bit inside… > Bwahahahaha! > BTW, parents who are immune to babies piercing screams are also often > not able to SMELL the little pooper’s special qualities, either.  Only > the rest of the plane is aware of Junior’s lumpy surprise. > Best Regards, > Bill Mattocks

Urban myth – as a father and grandfather I have never been able to immunize my hearing or sense of smell.  In fact, my wife used to tell me that a mother can hear her baby cry even before the crying starts. I also firmly believe, even in the absence of real data, just multiple anecdotes (if Tauger can do it, so can I), that parents who appear to be immune from the crying of their infant/child are not – but rather have adopted the best strategy to curtail the event by not reacting to it.  If you don’t reinforce a behavior, it soon stops – well, at least that’s the operant conditioning theory. Maybe these parents know more about what works than non-parents give them credit for.  Then again, maybe some people are just happier when they have something to complain about. js

Response:

> You don’t have kids, do you? >    No thank goodness. But if I did I wouldnt take them flying.

Why not? it’s not that bad….. My son is been flying since he was 6 months old. he never made a noise during the trip. he’s 10 now and I do need to tell him to turn down the game boy in the plane. Kenny

Response:

> Urban myth – as a father and grandfather I have never been able to > immunize my hearing or sense of smell.  In fact, my wife used to tell > me that a mother can hear her baby cry even before the crying starts.

I believe that *some* parents are tuned in to what Junior is up to. Some are, um, less so. > I also firmly believe, even in the absence of real data, just multiple > anecdotes (if Tauger can do it, so can I), that parents who appear to > be immune from the crying of their infant/child are not – but rather > have adopted the best strategy to curtail the event by not reacting to > it.  If you don’t reinforce a behavior, it soon stops – well, at least > that’s the operant conditioning theory.

Yes, if your puppy poops on the rug, you should ignore it, so as not to reinforce that bad behavior.  How about a rolled-up newspaper across the hindquarters, followed by showing puppy where he should do his bidness? Funny how times change.  My dad’s idea of dealing with crying, carrying on, misbehaving, etc, was a sharp crack on the ass, administered immediately and in public.  Amazing how well it worked. By today’s ‘enlightened’ views, he’d have been a criminal for such behavior. > Maybe these parents know more about what works than non-parents give > them credit for.

Perhaps some do.  Or, what I suspect is more likely, some of these seemingly non-attentive parents are actually deeply concerned about raising their children correctly, but they’re being horribly misled by the latest psycho-babble about child-rearing.  That would be maybe 10% of them.  The rest are just complete and utter selfish morons.  They raise kids like they drive cars – badly. I’m working in Orange County, CA this week.  The two-mile drive to work is a real experience.  Lots of very expensive cars zooming in and out of traffic, no turn signals, phones planted firmly on ears, speeds about 20 mph over the limit on side-streets.  And it’s not just one or two of them, it’s all of them.  Red lights mean you get another 6 or 7 cars through the light before you really, really, have to stop.  If your car costs more than $50,000 USD, you can park sideways across three parking spots in the tight little cramped parking lots they have here.  I have little doubt that these are the parents who I am referring to in their parental capacity.  All about ‘me’ to hell with society. > Then again, maybe some people are just happier when > they have something to complain about.

I know I certainly am.  Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves stress.  What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood vessel one fine day? Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Response:

> > Urban myth – as a father and grandfather I have never been able to > immunize my hearing or sense of smell.  In fact, my wife used to tell > me that a mother can hear her baby cry even before the crying starts. > I believe that *some* parents are tuned in to what Junior is up to. > Some are, um, less so.

It takes all kinds.  I don’t think bad parents are created – I think they started out as bad humans. > I also firmly believe, even in the absence of real data, just multiple > anecdotes (if Tauger can do it, so can I), that parents who appear to > be immune from the crying of their infant/child are not – but rather > have adopted the best strategy to curtail the event by not reacting to > it.  If you don’t reinforce a behavior, it soon stops – well, at least > that’s the operant conditioning theory. > Yes, if your puppy poops on the rug, you should ignore it, so as not > to reinforce that bad behavior.  

Not exactly what I meant – but pretty funny. > How about a rolled-up newspaper > across the hindquarters, followed by showing puppy where he should do > his bidness?

You think parenting and dog rearing should be managed the same way? Well shoot – let’s just put them in little cages in the hold. > Funny how times change.  My dad’s idea of dealing with crying, > carrying on, misbehaving, etc, was a sharp crack on the ass, > administered immediately and in public.  Amazing how well it worked.

I’m not so sure it worked all that well.  Look at all the examples of bad parenting – now think about the role model. > By today’s ‘enlightened’ views, he’d have been a criminal for such > behavior.

Physical punishment I personally find replsive.  it certainly is criminal if it happens between adults, why should it be any less criminal if it happens between an adult and a child.  Was it "for their own good"? > Maybe these parents know more about what works than non-parents give > them credit for. > Perhaps some do.  Or, what I suspect is more likely, some of these > seemingly non-attentive parents are actually deeply concerned about > raising their children correctly, but they’re being horribly misled by > the latest psycho-babble about child-rearing.  That would be maybe 10% > of them.  The rest are just complete and utter selfish morons.  They > raise kids like they drive cars – badly.

That describes 90% of the adult population irrespective of their parental status. > I’m working in Orange County, CA this week.  The two-mile drive to > work is a real experience.  Lots of very expensive cars zooming in and > out of traffic, no turn signals, phones planted firmly on ears, speeds > about 20 mph over the limit on side-streets.  And it’s not just one or > two of them, it’s all of them.  Red lights mean you get another 6 or 7 > cars through the light before you really, really, have to stop.  If > your car costs more than $50,000 USD, you can park sideways across > three parking spots in the tight little cramped parking lots they have > here.  I have little doubt that these are the parents who I am > referring to in their parental capacity.  All about ‘me’ to hell with > society.

No doubt – but then again, how do you know that this behavior is exclusive to parents? > Then again, maybe some people are just happier when > they have something to complain about. > I know I certainly am.  Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves > stress.  What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood > vessel one fine day?

I use other constructive methods to reduce stress.  I find hitting that little white ball deep into the woods a great stress reliever. > Best Regards, > Bill Mattocks

Happy travels js

Response:

> Funny how times change.  My dad’s idea of dealing with crying, > carrying on, misbehaving, etc, was a sharp crack on the ass, > administered immediately and in public.  Amazing how well it worked. > By today’s ‘enlightened’ views, he’d have been a criminal for such > behavior.

There is absolutely no way I would ever use violence to discipline a child. Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent–it means that reasoning power has failed.  Besides, what do you do when the kid starts hitting back? <snip> Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves > stress.  What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood > vessel one fine day?

I’d rather you didn’t let misfortunes and inconveniences get under your skin in the first place  :)

Response:

> You don’t have kids, do you? >    No thank goodness. But if I did I wouldnt take them flying.

Sure just lock them in a closet.  Don’t forget the muffle so their screams won’t bother the neighbors. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > > know > > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > > Blue, with > > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > > little to > > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > > sat so close to it,. > > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > > into one of > > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > > his offensive > > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > > getting the > > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > > this. > > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > > special mask for > > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > > it would > > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > > anyway at all. > > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

> I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_

I agree that screaming babies are the worst – and parents develop a special sort of deafness that makes them not seem to hear it whenever it would be inconvenient for them – but I’ve been through this fight on r.t.a. before and I lost!  The solution is earplugs or headphones for you, not a muffler for the kid. Although frankly, the thought of duct tape, cling wrap, and cargo holds for crying babies make me smile a bit inside… Bwahahahaha! BTW, parents who are immune to babies piercing screams are also often not able to SMELL the little pooper’s special qualities, either.  Only the rest of the plane is aware of Junior’s lumpy surprise. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Response:

> It’s those 3-to-5 YO’s that tend to scream the most particularly > when they don’t get their way for whatever reason.

I’d say 2-4.  They don’t call them the Terrible Twos for nothing. Casey

Response:

You know what I find interesting is that whenever I hang around Asian babies, toddlers, and other children, my ears are routinely spared any abuse at all. I really don’t have any working theories as to why this is.  It’s just that, I first, brace for sonic impact when I see the child…but then, I hear no noise. It’s amazing. — Los Angeles, CA – http://www.base-ix.com/~dlombard/ Base-IX Communications, coming 2004

Response:

> You don’t have kids, do you?

   No thank goodness. But if I did I wouldnt take them flying. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > Blue, with > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > little to > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > sat so close to it,. > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > into one of > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > his offensive > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > getting the > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > this. > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > special mask for > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > it would > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > anyway at all. > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

> usually small kids cry on descent (ear blockages).  It’s those 3-to-5 YO’s > that tend to scream the most particularly when they don’t get their way for > whatever reason.  Most of the time smaller kids only cry when they have a > REASON to cry. (wet, hungry, etc etc)

There is always a REASON when someone (kid or otherwise) does something.  No one does anything for no reason.  No apparent reason, maybe, but not for no reason (is that even grammatical?). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Last year, I flew from Hong Kong back to New Hampshire. There were 25 two > months old babies on the plane ( a group of people went to China and adopt > kids). You should see the look on our faces ( the other 300 passengers ). > We > are bracing for a 15 hours screaming flight. > To all our suprise, those babies were quiet all the way. May be they don’t > want the pilot to turn the plane around and head back to China. :) > Kenny > > I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > > know > > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > > Blue, with > > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > > little to > > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > > sat so close to it,. > > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > > into one of > > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > > his offensive > > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > > getting the > > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > > this. > > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > > special mask for > > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > > it would > > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > > anyway at all. > > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

> Last year, I flew from Hong Kong back to New Hampshire. There were 25 two > months old babies on the plane ( a group of people went to China and adopt > kids). You should see the look on our faces ( the other 300 passengers ). We > are bracing for a 15 hours screaming flight. > To all our suprise, those babies were quiet all the way. May be they don’t > want the pilot to turn the plane around and head back to China. :) > Kenny

I flew with my babies often when they were about 6 weeks old and on — we never had a single incident of prolonged crying — if you take care of their ears and the baby is not colicky then most don’t cry for extended periods – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > Blue, with > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > little to > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > sat so close to it,. > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > into one of > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > his offensive > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > getting the > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > this. > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > special mask for > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > it would > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > anyway at all. > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

You don’t have kids, do you?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > Blue, with > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > little to > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > sat so close to it,. > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > into one of > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > his offensive > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > getting the > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > this. > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > special mask for > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > it would > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > anyway at all. > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

usually small kids cry on descent (ear blockages).  It’s those 3-to-5 YO’s that tend to scream the most particularly when they don’t get their way for whatever reason.  Most of the time smaller kids only cry when they have a REASON to cry. (wet, hungry, etc etc)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Last year, I flew from Hong Kong back to New Hampshire. There were 25 two > months old babies on the plane ( a group of people went to China and adopt > kids). You should see the look on our faces ( the other 300 passengers ). We > are bracing for a 15 hours screaming flight. > To all our suprise, those babies were quiet all the way. May be they don’t > want the pilot to turn the plane around and head back to China. :) > Kenny > I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > Blue, with > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > little to > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > sat so close to it,. > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > into one of > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > his offensive > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > getting the > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > this. > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > special mask for > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > it would > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > anyway at all. > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I know I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin Blue, with this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very little to rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that sat so close to it,. I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid into one of the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate his offensive noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but getting the parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on this. In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a special mask for this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, it would completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in anyway at all. If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

> Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > Blue, with this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent > doing very little to rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really > pittied the pax that sat so close to it,. > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid into > one of the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to > isolate his offensive noise from those sitting close to him. The pax > beside me agreed, but getting the parent to agree would be a major > problem. I welcome any feedback on this.

Are you posting from the plane now? miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu Site remodeled 10-Sept-2003: Hundreds of new photos, easier navigation.

Response:

Last year, I flew from Hong Kong back to New Hampshire. There were 25 two months old babies on the plane ( a group of people went to China and adopt kids). You should see the look on our faces ( the other 300 passengers ). We are bracing for a 15 hours screaming flight. To all our suprise, those babies were quiet all the way. May be they don’t want the pilot to turn the plane around and head back to China. :) Kenny

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > Blue, with > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > little to > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > sat so close to it,. > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > into one of > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > his offensive > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > getting the > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > this. > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > special mask for > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > it would > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > anyway at all. > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

> In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > special mask for this situation, when if the mask is placed over the > mouth of the infant, it would completely muffle out all the noise > without suffocating the child in anyway at all.

Besides the obvious technical problems, as the baby muffler would be rather large to be effective, the only type of parent who would use one would be the type of parent who has already tried her/his best to have a quiet child.  The really obnoxious parent would never buy one. Casey

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > Blue, with > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > little to > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > sat so close to it,. > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > into one of > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > his offensive > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > getting the > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > this. > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > special mask for > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > it would > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > anyway at all. > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

I agree that a parent who is not trying to cope is highly annoying BUT  most planes only have a couple of toilets for the entire coach class — I sure don’t want to have to stand in long lines while someone monopolizes a toilet to isolate a child, nurse a baby, make love or anything else other than a quick trip to do what needs doing there

Response:

Question:

I’m fairly ignorant on current amps – even though I’ve been playing for a long time! Been stuck in the parenting rut and now want to play a few clubs with guys I’ve been jamming with. I’d like to know what small (around 50 watts) combo amps people really rate in club situations. I have "rich man’s tastes and poor man’s pockets" but am willing to spend around

Question:

Some areas are in worse shape than others. Here are some statistics from a Detroit tv news web site published today: About 21 percent of Detroit residents have no insurance coverage. Medicaid, a public health plan for the poor that doesn’t fully pay treatment costs to doctors and hospitals, covers another 31.5 percent. http://www.clickondetroit.com/health/2360820/detail.html That would be 52.5% of people in Detroit who are uninsured or underinsured. I’d say that’s extremely high. It has created a huge health care crisis in Detroit as each of the three hospitals in Detroit are providing $100 million in free care annually. Denise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > "Overall, 14.1 percent of the population — some 38.9 million Americans > of all ages — was without health insurance coverage in the first half > of 2001" – US Department of Health & Human Services > http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2002pres/20020204.html > Define "high percentage" as you will.  38.9 million Americans without > coverage seems like a lot, even if it’s only 14%. > -rev > ^ Here in the U.S. a very high percentage of > the population does not have medical insurance > incorrect statement

Response:

Hi, had a look at the site, it made interesting reading. Despite what some say about the NHS, I’m glad we have it! Mel :-)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If you’re interested Mel, here’s a good site talking about the uninsured > in the US: http://coveringtheuninsured.org > Hospitals legally can’t deny medical aid to someone who requires it.  If > the person is uninsured, the get the full bill for the hospital visit. > Often, they can’t pay it and they don’t.  Normally the hospitals just > give up on the bill.  If the person doesn’t have enough money to pay for > it, going through the legal process of trying to claim the bill is just > a waste of time and money. > So, the hospital ends up paying for it.  Which means they must raise > prices to compensate for it.  So, those people who can pay end up > compensating for those who can’t.  The US Federal Government (and many > state governments) also do some level of subsidies to help out hospitals > in areas that have a high number of patients who come in unable to pay. > -rev > Thanks mgbio ;-) > so do they still get treated and the hospital somehow has to try and get the > money back? Surely they wouldn’t let someone die because they have no > insurance? > Mel

Response:

Mel, Hospitals must treat anyone who comes to the ER.  However, if you are uninsured, instead of of someone else paying a lower, negotiated, price, you pay the full price and then some.  Usually this "then some" helps to offset the reductions given to the insured folks (IMHO).  Plus, the cost of being treated for basic medical care that should take place in a physician’s office skyrockets.  Hospitals do give out charity care, but you must qualify; not all the uninsured do.  If you are middle class, own a home or other assets, you could end up loosing them if you seek needed medical care in a hospital room. The system stinks and needs change, hard, expensive, but better for all Americans. :)  mgbio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Thanks mgbio ;-) > so do they still get treated and the hospital somehow has to try and get the > money back? Surely they wouldn’t let someone die because they have no > insurance? > Mel > Opps, hit send by accident, here is what I meant to say, in full > I don’t know where you are getting your numbers, but here are a few > things I came across in a quick search: > http://www.statesman.com/metrostate/content/auto/epaper/editions/toda… > In Texas it is estimated that 38% of Hispanics do not have health > insurance. > http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/discussion00-14.pdf > A 2000 report shows that 15.4% of the nonelderly population have no > insurance.  Of that 15.4% 23.7% are among adults age 18-34, which means > either our college students or young workforce. > http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2003/30/we_482_01.html > The article states that over 41 million Americans have no health > insurance.  (I’m not concerned right now w/ placing the blame, which the > article discusses at length.) > http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/parenting/07/17/american.children.ap/ > A recent CNN article about discussing child health states that 88% of > children have health insurance.  This means that 18% don’t. > http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=16466 > Discusses how the uninsured in IL are paying 50-70% MORE for health care > than those who are insured.  Those who can afford it the least are > paying the most.  The article goes on to say:  "The full rates uninsured > people end up paying are usually vastly inflated from the actual cost of > providing service. For the past 20 years  health care bills have risen > at twice the inflation rate. In 1993 the U.S. General Accounting Office > reported that 99 percent of hospital bills have overcharges, which can > include "phantom charges" for services that weren’t actually given, > markups, duplicate billings and charges for unnecessarily long hospital > stays or unneeded services." > The article later states that of these uninsured:  "..in Illinois 28.9 > percent of Latinos and 22.8 percent of African-Americans are uninsured, > compared to 11 percent of whites." > Furthermore, > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2003/07/… > discusses that the cost of these uninsured, who go to ER’s for basic > health care and those inflated costs are born us, the taxpayers.  (And > believe me, I have seen it and had to wait as an emergency patient > behind this mis-use of resources.) > I don’t know about you, but I find these statistics appalling. > mgbio > > ^ Here in the U.S. a very high percentage of > > the population does not have medical insurance > > incorrect statement

Response:

I’m not surprised!  I live in Houston and I know lots of people without health insurance…I’m very fortunate to have excellent health insurance…many physicians are dropping the HMO plans and sticking with the PPO’s…can’t say I blame them because they have to do the same amount of work and do not make any money.  I have a feeling that most physicians in my community make a pretty nice chunk of change!

> Opps, hit send by accident, here is what I meant to say, in full > I don’t know where you are getting your numbers, but here are a few > things I came across in a quick search:

http://www.statesman.com/metrostate/content/auto/epaper/editions/toda… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In Texas it is estimated that 38% of Hispanics do not have health > insurance. > http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/discussion00-14.pdf > A 2000 report shows that 15.4% of the nonelderly population have no > insurance.  Of that 15.4% 23.7% are among adults age 18-34, which means > either our college students or young workforce. > http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2003/30/we_482_01.html > The article states that over 41 million Americans have no health > insurance.  (I’m not concerned right now w/ placing the blame, which the > article discusses at length.) > http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/parenting/07/17/american.children.ap/ > A recent CNN article about discussing child health states that 88% of > children have health insurance.  This means that 18% don’t. > http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=16466 > Discusses how the uninsured in IL are paying 50-70% MORE for health care > than those who are insured.  Those who can afford it the least are > paying the most.  The article goes on to say:  "The full rates uninsured > people end up paying are usually vastly inflated from the actual cost of > providing service. For the past 20 years  health care bills have risen > at twice the inflation rate. In 1993 the U.S. General Accounting Office > reported that 99 percent of hospital bills have overcharges, which can > include "phantom charges" for services that weren’t actually given, > markups, duplicate billings and charges for unnecessarily long hospital > stays or unneeded services." > The article later states that of these uninsured:  "..in Illinois 28.9 > percent of Latinos and 22.8 percent of African-Americans are uninsured, > compared to 11 percent of whites." > Furthermore,

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2003/07/… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> discusses that the cost of these uninsured, who go to ER’s for basic > health care and those inflated costs are born us, the taxpayers.  (And > believe me, I have seen it and had to wait as an emergency patient > behind this mis-use of resources.) > I don’t know about you, but I find these statistics appalling. > mgbio > ^ Here in the U.S. a very high percentage of > the population does not have medical insurance > incorrect statement

Response:

Thanks mgbio ;-) so do they still get treated and the hospital somehow has to try and get the money back? Surely they wouldn’t let someone die because they have no insurance? Mel

> Opps, hit send by accident, here is what I meant to say, in full > I don’t know where you are getting your numbers, but here are a few > things I came across in a quick search:

http://www.statesman.com/metrostate/content/auto/epaper/editions/toda… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In Texas it is estimated that 38% of Hispanics do not have health > insurance. > http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/discussion00-14.pdf > A 2000 report shows that 15.4% of the nonelderly population have no > insurance.  Of that 15.4% 23.7% are among adults age 18-34, which means > either our college students or young workforce. > http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2003/30/we_482_01.html > The article states that over 41 million Americans have no health > insurance.  (I’m not concerned right now w/ placing the blame, which the > article discusses at length.) > http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/parenting/07/17/american.children.ap/ > A recent CNN article about discussing child health states that 88% of > children have health insurance.  This means that 18% don’t. > http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=16466 > Discusses how the uninsured in IL are paying 50-70% MORE for health care > than those who are insured.  Those who can afford it the least are > paying the most.  The article goes on to say:  "The full rates uninsured > people end up paying are usually vastly inflated from the actual cost of > providing service. For the past 20 years  health care bills have risen > at twice the inflation rate. In 1993 the U.S. General Accounting Office > reported that 99 percent of hospital bills have overcharges, which can > include "phantom charges" for services that weren’t actually given, > markups, duplicate billings and charges for unnecessarily long hospital > stays or unneeded services." > The article later states that of these uninsured:  "..in Illinois 28.9 > percent of Latinos and 22.8 percent of African-Americans are uninsured, > compared to 11 percent of whites." > Furthermore,

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2003/07/… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> discusses that the cost of these uninsured, who go to ER’s for basic > health care and those inflated costs are born us, the taxpayers.  (And > believe me, I have seen it and had to wait as an emergency patient > behind this mis-use of resources.) > I don’t know about you, but I find these statistics appalling. > mgbio > ^ Here in the U.S. a very high percentage of > the population does not have medical insurance > incorrect statement

Response:

"Overall, 14.1 percent of the population — some 38.9 million Americans of all ages — was without health insurance coverage in the first half of 2001" – US Department of Health & Human Services http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2002pres/20020204.html Define "high percentage" as you will.  38.9 million Americans without coverage seems like a lot, even if it’s only 14%. -rev – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > ^ Here in the U.S. a very high percentage of > the population does not have medical insurance > incorrect statement

Response:

If you’re interested Mel, here’s a good site talking about the uninsured in the US: http://coveringtheuninsured.org Hospitals legally can’t deny medical aid to someone who requires it.  If the person is uninsured, the get the full bill for the hospital visit. Often, they can’t pay it and they don’t.  Normally the hospitals just give up on the bill.  If the person doesn’t have enough money to pay for it, going through the legal process of trying to claim the bill is just a waste of time and money. So, the hospital ends up paying for it.  Which means they must raise prices to compensate for it.  So, those people who can pay end up compensating for those who can’t.  The US Federal Government (and many state governments) also do some level of subsidies to help out hospitals in areas that have a high number of patients who come in unable to pay. -rev – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Thanks mgbio ;-) > so do they still get treated and the hospital somehow has to try and get the > money back? Surely they wouldn’t let someone die because they have no > insurance? > Mel

Response:

Opps, hit send by accident, here is what I meant to say, in full I don’t know where you are getting your numbers, but here are a few things I came across in a quick search: http://www.statesman.com/metrostate/content/auto/epaper/editions/toda… In Texas it is estimated that 38% of Hispanics do not have health insurance.   http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/discussion00-14.pdf A 2000 report shows that 15.4% of the nonelderly population have no insurance.  Of that 15.4% 23.7% are among adults age 18-34, which means either our college students or young workforce.   http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2003/30/we_482_01.html The article states that over 41 million Americans have no health insurance.  (I’m not concerned right now w/ placing the blame, which the article discusses at length.) http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/parenting/07/17/american.children.ap/ A recent CNN article about discussing child health states that 88% of children have health insurance.  This means that 18% don’t.   http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=16466 Discusses how the uninsured in IL are paying 50-70% MORE for health care than those who are insured.  Those who can afford it the least are paying the most.  The article goes on to say:  "The full rates uninsured people end up paying are usually vastly inflated from the actual cost of providing service. For the past 20 years  health care bills have risen at twice the inflation rate. In 1993 the U.S. General Accounting Office reported that 99 percent of hospital bills have overcharges, which can include "phantom charges" for services that weren’t actually given, markups, duplicate billings and charges for unnecessarily long hospital stays or unneeded services." The article later states that of these uninsured:  "..in Illinois 28.9 percent of Latinos and 22.8 percent of African-Americans are uninsured, compared to 11 percent of whites." Furthermore, http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2003/07/… discusses that the cost of these uninsured, who go to ER’s for basic health care and those inflated costs are born us, the taxpayers.  (And believe me, I have seen it and had to wait as an emergency patient behind this mis-use of resources.) I don’t know about you, but I find these statistics appalling. mgbio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > ^ Here in the U.S. a very high percentage of > the population does not have medical insurance > incorrect statement

Response:

Oh Mel, what a can of worms!  Here in the U.S. a very high percentage of the population does not have medical insurance.  If you are extremely poor, the feds will pay the way (though getting care becomes more complicated and not everyone will take you as a patient).  If you are the average middle class American you either have inadequate coverage (hospitalization which will prevent your being bankrupt maybe) or no coverage (way too many).  Two of the biggest messes we leave for our children are health care and social security. In a thought, it stinks! :)  mgbio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi, > Just wondering how the med insurance works in other countries. Here in the > UK we have the NHS so care is practically free. What happens in countries > where you have to have insurance, if someone hasn’t got it? Or do you still > get basic care free? > Mel :-)

Response:

^ Here in the U.S. a very high percentage of the population does not have medical insurance incorrect statement

Response:

I don’t know where you are getting your numbers, but here are a few things I came across in a quick search: http://www.statesman.com/metrostate/content/auto/epaper/editions/toda… In Texas it is estimated that 38% of Hispanics do not have health insurance.   A 2000 report shows that 15.4% of the nonelderly populatin have no insurance. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > ^ Here in the U.S. a very high percentage of > the population does not have medical insurance > incorrect statement

Response:

Hi, Just wondering how the med insurance works in other countries. Here in the UK we have the NHS so care is practically free. What happens in countries where you have to have insurance, if someone hasn’t got it? Or do you still get basic care free? Mel :-)

Response:

Question:

Can somebody please explain why all the cross-posted OT stuff lately? I’ve been off-line for a week or so. Curious as to the context.  No BFD.

Response:

> Can somebody please explain why all the cross-posted OT stuff lately? > I’ve been off-line for a week or so. > Curious as to the context.  No BFD.

There’s a wanker (or a spanker) named Chris Dugan (unfortunately, this leftoid warpo is breathin’ my air here in the People’s Republic of Denver; I apologize for his lame ass) who normally hangs out on a little jerkwater NG called alt.parenting.spanking.  Ordinarily, "his" NG draws less than a dozen posts a day.  I reckon he got tired of starin’ at the wall over there and decided to stir some shit here on AGA, so he just crossposted a whole slew of crap cut-and-pasted from red-diaper doper-baby commie sites like the Guardian "news"paper and whatnot.  I (and several others) are currently returning the favor.  He has never posted on topic here  (and can’t, as far as anyone knows) so his intent was not to discuss things here as a "regular" but rather to decrease the S/N ratio further.  AGA is, admittedly, a good pick for a pinko asshole of his ilk, since there is certainly no shortage of fellow travelers here.  ;-) Lord Valve Arrogant Rightwing Bastard

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Can somebody please explain why all the cross-posted OT stuff lately? > I’ve been off-line for a week or so. > Curious as to the context.  No BFD. > There’s a wanker (or a spanker) named Chris Dugan > (unfortunately, this leftoid warpo is breathin’ my air > here in the People’s Republic of Denver; I apologize > for his lame ass) who normally hangs out on a little > jerkwater NG called alt.parenting.spanking.  Ordinarily, > "his" NG draws less than a dozen posts a day.  I reckon > he got tired of starin’ at the wall over there and decided > to stir some shit here on AGA, so he just crossposted a > whole slew of crap cut-and-pasted from red-diaper > doper-baby commie sites like the Guardian "news"paper > and whatnot.  I (and several others) are currently returning > the favor.  He has never posted on topic here  (and can’t, > as far as anyone knows) so his intent was not to discuss > things here as a "regular" but rather to decrease the > S/N ratio further.  AGA is, admittedly, a good pick > for a pinko asshole of his ilk, since there is certainly > no shortage of fellow travelers here.  ;-) > Lord Valve > Arrogant Rightwing Bastard

OK…thanks…too bad there isn’t a way, with this crazy ‘information super highway’ to make peace with him, and send him…say…digital copies of good movies we all like, or some other gesture of good will.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Can somebody please explain why all the cross-posted OT stuff lately? > > I’ve been off-line for a week or so. > > Curious as to the context.  No BFD. > There’s a wanker (or a spanker) named Chris Dugan > (unfortunately, this leftoid warpo is breathin’ my air > here in the People’s Republic of Denver; I apologize > for his lame ass) who normally hangs out on a little > jerkwater NG called alt.parenting.spanking.  Ordinarily, > "his" NG draws less than a dozen posts a day.  I reckon > he got tired of starin’ at the wall over there and decided > to stir some shit here on AGA, so he just crossposted a > whole slew of crap cut-and-pasted from red-diaper > doper-baby commie sites like the Guardian "news"paper > and whatnot.  I (and several others) are currently returning > the favor.  He has never posted on topic here  (and can’t, > as far as anyone knows) so his intent was not to discuss > things here as a "regular" but rather to decrease the > S/N ratio further.  AGA is, admittedly, a good pick > for a pinko asshole of his ilk, since there is certainly > no shortage of fellow travelers here.  ;-) > Lord Valve > Arrogant Rightwing Bastard > OK…thanks…too bad there isn’t a way, with this crazy > ‘information super highway’ to make peace with him, and > send him…say…digital copies of good movies we all like, > or some other gesture of good will.

You naughty boy.  ;-) LV

Response:

>Can somebody please explain why all the cross-posted OT stuff lately? >I’ve been off-line for a week or so. >Curious as to the context.  No BFD.

The usual reason for x-posting like this is to stir up trouble, get the members of two groups flaming each other so the original troll can sit back and laugh at the results.  Sadly not everyone can manage to ignore the little turds, which in effect plays into their scheme.

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Question:

Two Top New York Times Editors Resign FOX NEWS, Thursday, June 05, 2003 NEW YORK

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Hey everone Im not sure wheter Im allowed to discuss sex on this NG but I cant think of a better place as Im not about to discuss it with my doctor anytime soon. I’ve been on MTX more or less since I was 13 (which means 10 yrs) and since I was so young when I started it nobody told me about the possible side effect of "loss of libido" – and I wouldnt have cared about it at the time either… But now, that Im 23 I feel that my libido has been lost somewhere along the way… Im wondering if anyone else has experienced this and if you can give me some kinda advice or something…? *blushing now* – Silja [norway] "Beach is pronounced with a long ‘e’. Going down on the bitch means something quite different."   –My english teacher. http://www.geocities.com/scoobysil

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Hi Silja and welcome! Nice to see a fellow Scandinavian (I’m from Sweden) my age here! There is another Norwegian woman here as well. Anyway, I don’t have any problems with MTX, so I can’t help you very much with that. When I was in for my last Remicade infusion, there was that a middle age lady in the bed next to mine told me that she refused to take MTX anymore, since she’d lose her libido while on it. This is about what I know about MTX and loss of libido. Hopefully, someone else will be able to have better answers. Is your arthritis well controlled? If not, that may also contribute to loss of libido. Nina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hey everone > Im not sure wheter Im allowed to discuss sex on this NG but I > cant think of a better place as Im not about to discuss it with > my doctor anytime soon. > I’ve been on MTX more or less since I was 13 (which means 10 yrs) > and since I was so young when I started it nobody told me about > the possible side effect of "loss of libido" – and I wouldnt > have cared about it at the time either… > But now, that Im 23 I feel that my libido has been > lost somewhere along the way… > Im wondering if anyone else has experienced this > and if you can give me some kinda advice or something…? > *blushing now* > – Silja [norway] > "Beach is pronounced with a long ‘e’. > Going down on the bitch means something quite different." >   –My english teacher. > http://www.geocities.com/scoobysil

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hey everone > Im not sure wheter Im allowed to discuss sex on this NG but I > cant think of a better place as Im not about to discuss it with > my doctor anytime soon. > I’ve been on MTX more or less since I was 13 (which means 10 yrs) > and since I was so young when I started it nobody told me about > the possible side effect of "loss of libido" – and I wouldnt > have cared about it at the time either… > But now, that Im 23 I feel that my libido has been > lost somewhere along the way… > Im wondering if anyone else has experienced this > and if you can give me some kinda advice or something…? > *blushing now* > – Silja [norway] > "Beach is pronounced with a long ‘e’. > Going down on the bitch means something quite different." >   –My english teacher. > http://www.geocities.com/scoobysil

What other medications are you on? — Are you registered as a bone marrow donor? You regenerate what you donate.  You are offered the chance to donate only if you match a person on the recipient list. Call your local Red Cross and ask about registering to be a bone marrow donor. spam trap: replace shyah_right with hotmail when replying

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Hi, Silja… and welcome to the group! First, I just reviewed a number of areas that discuss the possible side effects of medications looking specifically for anything regarding mtx and the libido and found nothing.  That doesn’t mean it isn’t the cause, but I couldn’t find it as a major noted side effect anyway. Here are some links to the details: http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/mtx.htm http://www.arthritis.co.za/methotrexate.htm http://www.arthritis.co.za/methotrexate%20ra.htm I did however find an interesting section on intimacy in arthritis at Drdoc’s website (illustrated!) that you may find helpful: http://www.arthritis.co.za/intimacy.html In other words, it sure looks to me like the disease itself may have the effect on the libido that you are concerned about. In any case, although I am just as shy as you, if not more so, in discussing this kind of thing with my rheumatologist, you must get your courage up and discuss the nitty-gritty with your doctor.  He knows what medications you are on, your body’s restrictions, and should be well-educated on optimizing your choices for getting past this difficulty. If it is still too hard for you to discuss in person, you may try my method.  I will write to my rheumatologist those questions that are just too hard for me to bring up in person.  I may send him a letter, or an e-mail.  I find this much easier and it lets me bring up topics that are just too difficult in person where he is always so rushed or may be interrupted. As to methotrexate and me, so far so good… I have not noticed any such effect and I’ve been on a relatively high dose for years and years now. One final note, just in case you didn’t notice it, and that is that anyone, MALE OR FEMALE, who is on mtx should be using a reliable method of contraception as mtx can cause birth defects and/or spontaneous abortion. Best of luck, and do stick around here!  I guarantee there are others with questions similar to yours who have just been too shy to bring it up. LadyAndy Chat live with us at >http://tinyurl.com/4ust < (this is at iVillageHealth – my chats are on Sun evenings at 10 ET) Joint Replacement Board at http://boards.ivillagehealth.com/cgi-bin/boards/bhivhjointreplace

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> I did however find an interesting section on intimacy in arthritis at Drdoc’s > website (illustrated!) that you may find helpful: > http://www.arthritis.co.za/intimacy.html

Scroll down to the bottom of that page and you see this: "Reproduction in ANY FORM – STRICTLY prohibited" LOL!!!! ahahaha — Are you registered as a bone marrow donor? You regenerate what you donate.  You are offered the chance to donate only if you match a person on the recipient list. Call your local Red Cross and ask about registering to be a bone marrow donor. spam trap: replace shyah_right with hotmail when replying

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> What other medications are you on?

I also use Orudis which is a painkiller. My arthritis is pretty much under control.. Im more or less fine… This is my only major problem at the time… – Silja "Beach is pronounced with a long ‘e’. Going down on the bitch means something quite different."   –My english teacher. http://www.geocities.com/scoobysil

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Hi, I am 23 (have been on MTX very long – JRA since 1992) and I don’t have this problem. But haven’t you thought that this might be not due to MTX? I am really not an expert, but I haven’t heard that MTX could have such side-effect. Agata

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>http://www.arthritis.co.za/intimacy.html >Scroll down to the bottom of that page and you see this: >"Reproduction in ANY FORM – STRICTLY prohibited"

ROFL  Now THAT is funny!! Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’.  We’re all in this together."  Red Green

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The problem may lie within another medication. Anti-depressants can decrease libido. I’m not sure about other drugs, but I would suggest going over the drug information that comes with your prescriptions or looking at a site such as rxlist.com. Just a thought, Ashley C. Ashley C. aka…. "Little One" www.ashleycanterbury.com

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>>What other medications are you on? > I also use Orudis which is a painkiller. > My arthritis is pretty much under control.. Im more or less > fine… This is my only major problem at the time…

My thinking was, that if you were taking birth control pills, that these would be the most likely culprit for your loss of libido. Ari > – Silja > "Beach is pronounced with a long ‘e’. > Going down on the bitch means something quite different." >   –My english teacher. > http://www.geocities.com/scoobysil

– Are you registered as a bone marrow donor? You regenerate what you donate.  You are offered the chance to donate only if you match a person on the recipient list. Call your local Red Cross and ask about registering to be a bone marrow donor. spam trap: replace shyah_right with hotmail when replying

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Hi and welcome I suffered from the same thing and was also on MTX and Orudis.  But I’m alot older than you so that could have contributed to it as well. I would encourage you to speak with your doctor – don’t be embarrassed because medications can cause all sorts of side-effects, as I’m sure you know.  And 10 years seems quite a long time to have been on MTX. Also, if you are in constant pain, it’s little wonder you don’t feel too amorous! Di – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hey everone > Im not sure wheter Im allowed to discuss sex on this NG but I > cant think of a better place as Im not about to discuss it with > my doctor anytime soon. > I’ve been on MTX more or less since I was 13 (which means 10 yrs) > and since I was so young when I started it nobody told me about > the possible side effect of "loss of libido" – and I wouldnt > have cared about it at the time either… > But now, that Im 23 I feel that my libido has been > lost somewhere along the way… > Im wondering if anyone else has experienced this > and if you can give me some kinda advice or something…? > *blushing now* > – Silja [norway] > "Beach is pronounced with a long ‘e’. > Going down on the bitch means something quite different." >   –My english teacher. > http://www.geocities.com/scoobysil

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Im new to this group but i’ll throw in my 2 cents for what its worth :) i am also on mtx. 7.5 mg. but i also take a ton of other stuff…..for arthritis, bipolar, and thyroid…..i asked my pdoc who is also a pharmacologist if any of the meds i was on would cause loss of libido…..Ha he said……all of them….thanks doc…so my poor husband of only two years.   its a good thing he is soooo understanding.  proly most men arent,  especially when he wont even take an aspirin.     i talked to my gyno also.  the fact that i have an 18 month old doesnt help either. dont even ask about those 9 months…as far as libido .   well anyway   ( and im not in any way advertising here!)   in Parenting magazine i saw an ad for avlimil.  for female sexual dys.   its all natural supplement.  roots berries, that kind of stuff.  but im getting desperate so i took the bait.  i went ahead and ordered it thru the mail.  it is expensive  but if it works it will be worth it.     i cant tell you if it works yet or not ive only taken it for a week and they said it could take 4 to 6 weeks for it to build up in your system. i’ll keep you posted if you want.  it is avail w/o script.  it also mentioned more energy!  what i wouldnt give for that!!!!! anyone else heard of it or tried it?? Laurie in Pa

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Im new to this group but i’ll throw in my 2 cents for what its worth :) > i am also on mtx. 7.5 mg. but i also take a ton of other stuff…..for > arthritis, bipolar, and thyroid…..i asked my pdoc who is also a > pharmacologist if any of the meds i was on would cause loss of > libido…..Ha > he said……all of them….thanks doc…so my poor husband of only two > years.   its a good thing he is soooo understanding.  proly most men > arent,  especially when he wont even take an aspirin.     > i talked to my gyno also.  the fact that i have an 18 month old doesnt > help either. > dont even ask about those 9 months…as far as libido .   > well anyway   ( and im not in any way advertising here!)   in Parenting > magazine i saw an ad for avlimil.  for female sexual dys.   its all > natural supplement.  roots berries, that kind of stuff.  but im getting > desperate so i took the bait.  i went ahead and ordered it thru the > mail.  it is expensive  but if it works it will be worth it.     i cant > tell you if it works yet or not ive only taken it for a week and they > said it could take 4 to 6 weeks for it to build up in your system. > i’ll keep you posted if you want.  it is avail w/o script.  it also > mentioned more energy!  what i wouldnt give for that!!!!! > anyone else heard of it or tried it?? > Laurie in Pa

I think testosterone creme would probably work better. — Are you registered as a bone marrow donor? You regenerate what you donate.  You are offered the chance to donate only if you match a person on the recipient list. Call your local Red Cross and ask about registering to be a bone marrow donor. spam trap: replace shyah_right with hotmail when replying

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tried the testosterone creme too….didnt do anything for me except more mood swings  which is  the last thing I need.

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> Hi and welcome > I suffered from the same thing and was also on MTX and Orudis.  But > I’m alot older than you so that could have contributed to it as well. > I would encourage you to speak with your doctor – don’t be embarrassed > because medications can cause all sorts of side-effects, as I’m sure > you know.  And 10 years seems quite a long time to have been on MTX. > Also, if you are in constant pain, it’s little wonder you don’t feel > too amorous!

I know I should speak to my doctor… But I cant seem to make myself do it. I just feel like its no big deal and nothing to bitch about you know? Also my doctors never seem to have the time for a discussion about this.. Whenever I have my checkups by rheumatoligsts… (Which is about twice a year…) Im in and outta there in 15 minutes… So when they say "any other questions" they are already starting to get ready for the next patient… And that doesnt make me feel like saying "oh yea.. my sexlife sucks" But I’ll try… I might even ask my gynocologist.. Hadnt tought of that actually… So thanx to whoever it was who mentioned their gyno. :) – Silja "Beach is pronounced with a long ‘e’. Going down on the bitch means something quite different."   –My english teacher. http://www.geocities.com/scoobysil

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> tried the testosterone creme too….didnt do anything for me except more > mood swings  which is  the last thing I need.

Ack! I’ve known people that it’s worked for (especially when the birth control pill artificially lowers their testosterone levels…yes, wimmins need testosterone too to fuel their sex drives) and I’ve heard of women actually getting low levels of testosterone injected when the creams haven’t worked, but I think this has become a thing of the past now that the male HRT testosterone patches are available (I heard through a physician one horror story about a woman who had a testosterone injection and over the course of 3 days bedded half the men in her small town…it did not do wonders for her marriage…) Ari — Are you registered as a bone marrow donor? You regenerate what you donate.  You are offered the chance to donate only if you match a person on the recipient list. Call your local Red Cross and ask about registering to be a bone marrow donor. spam trap: replace shyah_right with hotmail when replying

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> Whenever I have my checkups by rheumatoligsts… > (Which is about twice a year…) Im in and outta there in 15 minutes… > So when they say "any other questions" they are already starting to get > ready for the next patient… And that doesnt make me feel like saying > "oh yea.. my sexlife sucks" > But I’ll try… I might even ask my gynocologist.. Hadnt tought of > that actually… So thanx to whoever it was who mentioned their gyno. :)

If it would be more comfortable, you could also write them a letter.  I would also ask for a longer appointment the next time you see your rheumatologist.  You just can’t do a complete exam in 15 minutes. Sexuality is an important part of our lives and you have a right to have this problem addressed. Walt Hanks

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi and welcome > I suffered from the same thing and was also on MTX and Orudis.  But > I’m alot older than you so that could have contributed to it as well. > I would encourage you to speak with your doctor – don’t be embarrassed > because medications can cause all sorts of side-effects, as I’m sure > you know.  And 10 years seems quite a long time to have been on MTX. > Also, if you are in constant pain, it’s little wonder you don’t feel > too amorous! > I know I should speak to my doctor… But I cant seem to make myself do it. > I just feel like its no big deal and nothing to bitch about you know? > Also my doctors never seem to have the time for a discussion about this.. > Whenever I have my checkups by rheumatoligsts… > (Which is about twice a year…) Im in and outta there in 15 minutes… > So when they say "any other questions" they are already starting to get > ready for the next patient… And that doesnt make me feel like saying > "oh yea.. my sexlife sucks" > But I’ll try… I might even ask my gynocologist.. Hadnt tought of > that actually… So thanx to whoever it was who mentioned their gyno. :) > – Silja

Hei Silja, I’m another Nowegian in here, but  mostly a lurker and twice you age I’m afraid..  I don’t know where you se the rheumatologist, but wanted to ask if it is at a hospital like I have mine?   I go to the Diakonhjemmet in Oslo, and there they have special nurses on call for all  their rheumatology patients for one hour every day. And I thought that it might be a bit easier if you could call a nurse and ask her this questions?  If they need further information, they will get it for you and call you back later. Could you find a similar service? Aina the lurker in Norway — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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it was a year ago when i tried the testosterone creme.  one of my doctors recently told me it is improved now…..not sure how.  but i didnt want to try it again especially with the bipolar moods to boot. it was my gyno who suggested it in the first place and my husband went right in with me.  she did say that testosterone is the "spice" for women. Yikes!!  i guess the injection worked for somebody?!! Laurie

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> >While there is some disagreement about the role of early ingestion on >developing this allergy, many doctors believe it can be triggered by >early exposure.  Since it is an often fatal reaction, one of the very >worst types of allergies, it is prudent to avoid peanut and other nuts >before age 3. > I agree completely!!! The pediatrician we had at the time said it was fine to > give a toddler a little peanut butter after 12 months of age.  The first time I > did, my son reacted.  How I wish I had known that it was best to wait! > Mary

Given this early reaction, it probably wouldn’t have mattered — he probably would have been sensitive to it later as well.  In fact, if he really did react the first time, he was probably sensitized before birth. so don’t feel guilty.  Some things just are.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My son will be 1 year old on January 23rd.  Does any one know when it > is > safe to give him smooth peanut butter on toast?  I have been told by > my Mom > to hold off on the peanut butter because it is hard to digest.  He > loves > the flavor. > Empingo > Talk to your pediatrician. Generally, use of any type of nut oil is > frowned on prior to 18 months to two years because of the high > likelihood of allergies in reaction to the nut oil.

While there is some disagreement about the role of early ingestion on developing this allergy, many doctors believe it can be triggered by early exposure.  Since it is an often fatal reaction, one of the very worst types of allergies, it is prudent to avoid peanut and other nuts before age 3. k

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>While there is some disagreement about the role of early ingestion on >developing this allergy, many doctors believe it can be triggered by >early exposure.  Since it is an often fatal reaction, one of the very >worst types of allergies, it is prudent to avoid peanut and other nuts >before age 3.

I agree completely!!! The pediatrician we had at the time said it was fine to give a toddler a little peanut butter after 12 months of age.  The first time I did, my son reacted.  How I wish I had known that it was best to wait! Mary

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I actually thought of taking my son to the parking lot of the hospital to give him his first peanut butter for this exact reason (allergic reaction).  I did not and he was fine but I waited until about 18 months, checked with the doctor, and nerved out about it for a long time. Scottie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > My son will be 1 year old on January 23rd.  Does any one know when it > > is > > safe to give him smooth peanut butter on toast?  I have been told by > > my Mom > > to hold off on the peanut butter because it is hard to digest.  He > > loves > > the flavor. > > Empingo > Talk to your pediatrician. Generally, use of any type of nut oil is > frowned on prior to 18 months to two years because of the high > likelihood of allergies in reaction to the nut oil. >While there is some disagreement about the role of early ingestion on >developing this allergy, many doctors believe it can be triggered by >early exposure.  Since it is an often fatal reaction, one of the very >worst types of allergies, it is prudent to avoid peanut and other nuts >before age 3.

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> Does any one know when it is >safe to give him smooth peanut butter on toast?  

A great alternative (and safe as well as nutritious) is tahini…ground sesame seeds.  It has a decent amount of calcium and protein.  I buy the organic kind to be on the safe side.  When kids get used to the taste of tahini and other nut butters early it makes for a more diverse diet later on.  I put tahini on my daughter’s waffle along with some pure fruit spread or apple butter and she loves it.  Good luck. ~debra~

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writes: >Because peanuts are an allergen for so many children, my pediatrician doesn’t >recommend them before age three.

My ped. says the same.  However, children can have tree nuts and their butters after 1 year.  Almond butter, tho it can be expensive, is highly nutritious (calcium, iron, fiber, and the best kind of fat to have in the diet).  My family likes filbert butter, and I’ve also spotted cashew butter, even macadamia nut butter! lynn

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> My son will be 1 year old on January 23rd.  Does any one know when it is > safe to give him smooth peanut butter on toast?  I have been told by my Mom > to hold off on the peanut butter because it is hard to digest.  He loves > the flavor. > Empingo

The reason to hold off on peanut butter isn’t because it’s hard to digest- it’s because it’s one of the foods most likely to cause an allergic reaction in a person and a small child’s throat is too small to allow intervention in time to save the kid’s life.  If a child were to have a bad allergic reaction to peanut butter the tongue and throat might swell and prevent the ability for air exchange, and because the child is so small there would not be enough time for medical intervention before it was too late.  It is recommended to hold off on peanut butter and fish until the child is old enough to have a fighting chance in the event of an allergic reaction.  It is recommended to hold off on eggs and honey and corn syrup because of the high chances of food poisoning (botchilism, sp?). My ped. recommended I year of age, others lately on the news group have said two and three years of age.  My kids are two and three and have been eating the above mentioned foods since their first birthday with no problems. — Best wishes, Lynn. "The reason our eyes are on the front of our heads   is so that we can see where we’re going   and not be bothered by what’s past."  Sally Huss

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Because peanuts are an allergen for so many children, my pediatrician doesn’t recommend them before age three. Happy BF, J. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >My son will be 1 year old on January 23rd.  Does any one know when it is >safe to give him smooth peanut butter on toast?  I have been told by my Mom >to hold off on the peanut butter because it is hard to digest.  He loves >the flavor. >Empingo

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My son just turned a year on Dec 2nd and I have been giving him peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for a couple of months now.  He loves them and hasn’t had any reaction to it at all nor does it seem hard for him do digest.  Actually PB&J is one of his favorites.  I guess it’s up to the parent to make that call.  I have 3 kids and all them loved PB&J by a year old! Good luck Shawn

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> My son will be 1 year old on January 23rd.  Does any one know when it > is > safe to give him smooth peanut butter on toast?  I have been told by > my Mom > to hold off on the peanut butter because it is hard to digest.  He > loves > the flavor. > Empingo

Talk to your pediatrician. Generally, use of any type of nut oil is frowned on prior to 18 months to two years because of the high likelihood of allergies in reaction to the nut oil. Good luck! — Charles I. Letbetter, Editor CATCH Online Magazine http://www.pagebrothers.com A new way of looking at parenting

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My son will be 1 year old on January 23rd.  Does any one know when it is safe to give him smooth peanut butter on toast?  I have been told by my Mom to hold off on the peanut butter because it is hard to digest.  He loves the flavor. Empingo

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+ You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted + raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. My cockatiels turned their beaks up at it. Shelled peanuts, too. James

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My vet advised me to use peanut butter only as a vehicle to get medicines into an ailing bird. Otherwise it is too fattening for continued good health of the bird. TTFN A – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…. > mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them > busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

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I forgot to mention, my vet told be it was too fattening to give often, so it is a very rare treat and I spread it thinly all over the spoon to make it last longer. if memmory serves correctly, this was a very young bird in the original message. I dont remember about their nutritional needs, too many years ago. carie

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I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and the birds don’t know the difference!

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: I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very : fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and : the birds don’t know the difference! I agree, nut butters (don’t forget the yummy ones like cashew butter and almond butter!) are good as part of a balanced diet, in moderation. More of a treat. I prefer to use the ‘natural’ kind, where the only ingredient on the label are: the nuts. No salt, sugars or extra hydrogenated oils to keep it mixed. So when you see these butters, the oil may be seperated out somewhat is the jar. This is fine: just flip it upside down for a bit and then stir it in and refrigerate. Try them: they’re wonderful! Laura Scudders sells a natural peanut butter in the larger chain stores. Otherwise, try your local health food stores for the other kinds. Kelly Flynn

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My vet has said the same thing about peanut butter. Use peanut butter in small amounts and not everyday. A treat here or there is fine… Rob. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. > I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as > they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can > develop > the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a > vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: > http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm > I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not > getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you > should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs > a > balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be > helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested > in > avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best > for > your young and growing grey. > There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian > nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: > http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more > information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will > help > you with any more nutrition questions you may have. > Gloria

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   Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays)    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any advice would be appreciated                                                                  thank you

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>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any > advice would be appreciated

Sure.  Just keep in mind peanut butter is fattening. You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. Kevin — http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/

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>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter….

mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can develop the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs a balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested in avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best for your young and growing grey. There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will help you with any more nutrition questions you may have. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food > and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his > food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same > size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more > fat…..any > advice would be appreciated >                                                                  thank > you

Response:

> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then? > Thanks – Maura

Absolutely! — LIZ

Response:

:     Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe :     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura Our two greys (Kiwi the CAG and Gizmo the TAG), White Capped Pionus (Hobie) and our Severe Macaw (Yes he’s stuck on the name Rambo which we hate) all love peanuts.  We limit the number they get due to the fat content but I imagine that peanut butter is no worse (or better).  So if your bird loves it, why not let him have limited amounts. — Mike Holland                   |*****  /  *****|  Internet: 2015 South Park Place          |*   / / /_/   *|  HPDESK: Atlanta, Georgia 30339         |***    /    ***| Mike Holland/HPATC/03 Phone: (404) 850-2449          |***** /   *****|  Telnet: 1-850-2449

Response:

>> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then?

Ever noticed how amazons always love fattening things?  Anyway, all four of our birds love peanut butter sandwiches.  We make them on wheat bread so we can pretend it is good for them.  I’m sure the protein is actually good for them, but peanut butter is high in fat.  Our amazons and grey are allowed 1/4 of a sandwich each.  We let our macaw have up to a half (I get whatever is left). It is definitely one of their favorite treats. Susan

Response:

    Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura We make 8 little peanut butter "sliders" every other morning: a small peanut butter sandwich with bird vitamins mixed in. The little twerps don’t even know the vitamins are there. It’s nice to win one now & then… –Doug — Douglas Roberts, TSA-DO/SA     | Los Alamos National Laboratory | All good work is done in defiance (505)667-4569                  |

Response:

Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge now and then? Thanks – Maura

Response:

+ You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted + raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. My cockatiels turned their beaks up at it. Shelled peanuts, too. James

Response:

My vet advised me to use peanut butter only as a vehicle to get medicines into an ailing bird. Otherwise it is too fattening for continued good health of the bird. TTFN A – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…. > mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them > busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

I forgot to mention, my vet told be it was too fattening to give often, so it is a very rare treat and I spread it thinly all over the spoon to make it last longer. if memmory serves correctly, this was a very young bird in the original message. I dont remember about their nutritional needs, too many years ago. carie

Response:

I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and the birds don’t know the difference!

Response:

: I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very : fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and : the birds don’t know the difference! I agree, nut butters (don’t forget the yummy ones like cashew butter and almond butter!) are good as part of a balanced diet, in moderation. More of a treat. I prefer to use the ‘natural’ kind, where the only ingredient on the label are: the nuts. No salt, sugars or extra hydrogenated oils to keep it mixed. So when you see these butters, the oil may be seperated out somewhat is the jar. This is fine: just flip it upside down for a bit and then stir it in and refrigerate. Try them: they’re wonderful! Laura Scudders sells a natural peanut butter in the larger chain stores. Otherwise, try your local health food stores for the other kinds. Kelly Flynn

Response:

My vet has said the same thing about peanut butter. Use peanut butter in small amounts and not everyday. A treat here or there is fine… Rob. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. > I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as > they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can > develop > the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a > vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: > http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm > I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not > getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you > should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs > a > balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be > helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested > in > avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best > for > your young and growing grey. > There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian > nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: > http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more > information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will > help > you with any more nutrition questions you may have. > Gloria

Response:

   Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays)    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any advice would be appreciated                                                                  thank you

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any > advice would be appreciated

Sure.  Just keep in mind peanut butter is fattening. You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. Kevin — http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter….

mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can develop the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs a balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested in avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best for your young and growing grey. There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will help you with any more nutrition questions you may have. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food > and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his > food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same > size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more > fat…..any > advice would be appreciated >                                                                  thank > you

Response:

> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then? > Thanks – Maura

Absolutely! — LIZ

Response:

:     Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe :     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura Our two greys (Kiwi the CAG and Gizmo the TAG), White Capped Pionus (Hobie) and our Severe Macaw (Yes he’s stuck on the name Rambo which we hate) all love peanuts.  We limit the number they get due to the fat content but I imagine that peanut butter is no worse (or better).  So if your bird loves it, why not let him have limited amounts. — Mike Holland                   |*****  /  *****|  Internet: 2015 South Park Place          |*   / / /_/   *|  HPDESK: Atlanta, Georgia 30339         |***    /    ***| Mike Holland/HPATC/03 Phone: (404) 850-2449          |***** /   *****|  Telnet: 1-850-2449

Response:

>> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then?

Ever noticed how amazons always love fattening things?  Anyway, all four of our birds love peanut butter sandwiches.  We make them on wheat bread so we can pretend it is good for them.  I’m sure the protein is actually good for them, but peanut butter is high in fat.  Our amazons and grey are allowed 1/4 of a sandwich each.  We let our macaw have up to a half (I get whatever is left). It is definitely one of their favorite treats. Susan

Response:

    Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura We make 8 little peanut butter "sliders" every other morning: a small peanut butter sandwich with bird vitamins mixed in. The little twerps don’t even know the vitamins are there. It’s nice to win one now & then… –Doug — Douglas Roberts, TSA-DO/SA     | Los Alamos National Laboratory | All good work is done in defiance (505)667-4569                  |

Response:

Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge now and then? Thanks – Maura

Response:

+ You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted + raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. My cockatiels turned their beaks up at it. Shelled peanuts, too. James

Response:

My vet advised me to use peanut butter only as a vehicle to get medicines into an ailing bird. Otherwise it is too fattening for continued good health of the bird. TTFN A – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…. > mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them > busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

I forgot to mention, my vet told be it was too fattening to give often, so it is a very rare treat and I spread it thinly all over the spoon to make it last longer. if memmory serves correctly, this was a very young bird in the original message. I dont remember about their nutritional needs, too many years ago. carie

Response:

I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and the birds don’t know the difference!

Response:

: I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very : fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and : the birds don’t know the difference! I agree, nut butters (don’t forget the yummy ones like cashew butter and almond butter!) are good as part of a balanced diet, in moderation. More of a treat. I prefer to use the ‘natural’ kind, where the only ingredient on the label are: the nuts. No salt, sugars or extra hydrogenated oils to keep it mixed. So when you see these butters, the oil may be seperated out somewhat is the jar. This is fine: just flip it upside down for a bit and then stir it in and refrigerate. Try them: they’re wonderful! Laura Scudders sells a natural peanut butter in the larger chain stores. Otherwise, try your local health food stores for the other kinds. Kelly Flynn

Response:

My vet has said the same thing about peanut butter. Use peanut butter in small amounts and not everyday. A treat here or there is fine… Rob. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. > I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as > they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can > develop > the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a > vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: > http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm > I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not > getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you > should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs > a > balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be > helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested > in > avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best > for > your young and growing grey. > There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian > nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: > http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more > information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will > help > you with any more nutrition questions you may have. > Gloria

Response:

   Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays)    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any advice would be appreciated                                                                  thank you

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any > advice would be appreciated

Sure.  Just keep in mind peanut butter is fattening. You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. Kevin — http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter….

mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can develop the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs a balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested in avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best for your young and growing grey. There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will help you with any more nutrition questions you may have. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food > and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his > food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same > size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more > fat…..any > advice would be appreciated >                                                                  thank > you

Response:

> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then? > Thanks – Maura

Absolutely! — LIZ

Response:

:     Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe :     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura Our two greys (Kiwi the CAG and Gizmo the TAG), White Capped Pionus (Hobie) and our Severe Macaw (Yes he’s stuck on the name Rambo which we hate) all love peanuts.  We limit the number they get due to the fat content but I imagine that peanut butter is no worse (or better).  So if your bird loves it, why not let him have limited amounts. — Mike Holland                   |*****  /  *****|  Internet: 2015 South Park Place          |*   / / /_/   *|  HPDESK: Atlanta, Georgia 30339         |***    /    ***| Mike Holland/HPATC/03 Phone: (404) 850-2449          |***** /   *****|  Telnet: 1-850-2449

Response:

>> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then?

Ever noticed how amazons always love fattening things?  Anyway, all four of our birds love peanut butter sandwiches.  We make them on wheat bread so we can pretend it is good for them.  I’m sure the protein is actually good for them, but peanut butter is high in fat.  Our amazons and grey are allowed 1/4 of a sandwich each.  We let our macaw have up to a half (I get whatever is left). It is definitely one of their favorite treats. Susan

Response:

    Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura We make 8 little peanut butter "sliders" every other morning: a small peanut butter sandwich with bird vitamins mixed in. The little twerps don’t even know the vitamins are there. It’s nice to win one now & then… –Doug — Douglas Roberts, TSA-DO/SA     | Los Alamos National Laboratory | All good work is done in defiance (505)667-4569                  |

Response:

Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge now and then? Thanks – Maura

Response:

+ You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted + raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. My cockatiels turned their beaks up at it. Shelled peanuts, too. James

Response:

My vet advised me to use peanut butter only as a vehicle to get medicines into an ailing bird. Otherwise it is too fattening for continued good health of the bird. TTFN A – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…. > mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them > busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

I forgot to mention, my vet told be it was too fattening to give often, so it is a very rare treat and I spread it thinly all over the spoon to make it last longer. if memmory serves correctly, this was a very young bird in the original message. I dont remember about their nutritional needs, too many years ago. carie

Response:

I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and the birds don’t know the difference!

Response:

: I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very : fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and : the birds don’t know the difference! I agree, nut butters (don’t forget the yummy ones like cashew butter and almond butter!) are good as part of a balanced diet, in moderation. More of a treat. I prefer to use the ‘natural’ kind, where the only ingredient on the label are: the nuts. No salt, sugars or extra hydrogenated oils to keep it mixed. So when you see these butters, the oil may be seperated out somewhat is the jar. This is fine: just flip it upside down for a bit and then stir it in and refrigerate. Try them: they’re wonderful! Laura Scudders sells a natural peanut butter in the larger chain stores. Otherwise, try your local health food stores for the other kinds. Kelly Flynn

Response:

My vet has said the same thing about peanut butter. Use peanut butter in small amounts and not everyday. A treat here or there is fine… Rob. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. > I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as > they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can > develop > the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a > vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: > http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm > I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not > getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you > should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs > a > balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be > helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested > in > avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best > for > your young and growing grey. > There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian > nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: > http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more > information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will > help > you with any more nutrition questions you may have. > Gloria

Response:

   Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays)    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any advice would be appreciated                                                                  thank you

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any > advice would be appreciated

Sure.  Just keep in mind peanut butter is fattening. You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. Kevin — http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter….

mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can develop the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs a balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested in avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best for your young and growing grey. There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will help you with any more nutrition questions you may have. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food > and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his > food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same > size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more > fat…..any > advice would be appreciated >                                                                  thank > you

Response:

> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then? > Thanks – Maura

Absolutely! — LIZ

Response:

:     Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe :     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura Our two greys (Kiwi the CAG and Gizmo the TAG), White Capped Pionus (Hobie) and our Severe Macaw (Yes he’s stuck on the name Rambo which we hate) all love peanuts.  We limit the number they get due to the fat content but I imagine that peanut butter is no worse (or better).  So if your bird loves it, why not let him have limited amounts. — Mike Holland                   |*****  /  *****|  Internet: 2015 South Park Place          |*   / / /_/   *|  HPDESK: Atlanta, Georgia 30339         |***    /    ***| Mike Holland/HPATC/03 Phone: (404) 850-2449          |***** /   *****|  Telnet: 1-850-2449

Response:

>> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then?

Ever noticed how amazons always love fattening things?  Anyway, all four of our birds love peanut butter sandwiches.  We make them on wheat bread so we can pretend it is good for them.  I’m sure the protein is actually good for them, but peanut butter is high in fat.  Our amazons and grey are allowed 1/4 of a sandwich each.  We let our macaw have up to a half (I get whatever is left). It is definitely one of their favorite treats. Susan

Response:

    Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura We make 8 little peanut butter "sliders" every other morning: a small peanut butter sandwich with bird vitamins mixed in. The little twerps don’t even know the vitamins are there. It’s nice to win one now & then… –Doug — Douglas Roberts, TSA-DO/SA     | Los Alamos National Laboratory | All good work is done in defiance (505)667-4569                  |

Response:

Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge now and then? Thanks – Maura

Response:

+ You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted + raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. My cockatiels turned their beaks up at it. Shelled peanuts, too. James

Response:

My vet advised me to use peanut butter only as a vehicle to get medicines into an ailing bird. Otherwise it is too fattening for continued good health of the bird. TTFN A – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…. > mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them > busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

I forgot to mention, my vet told be it was too fattening to give often, so it is a very rare treat and I spread it thinly all over the spoon to make it last longer. if memmory serves correctly, this was a very young bird in the original message. I dont remember about their nutritional needs, too many years ago. carie

Response:

I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and the birds don’t know the difference!

Response:

: I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very : fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and : the birds don’t know the difference! I agree, nut butters (don’t forget the yummy ones like cashew butter and almond butter!) are good as part of a balanced diet, in moderation. More of a treat. I prefer to use the ‘natural’ kind, where the only ingredient on the label are: the nuts. No salt, sugars or extra hydrogenated oils to keep it mixed. So when you see these butters, the oil may be seperated out somewhat is the jar. This is fine: just flip it upside down for a bit and then stir it in and refrigerate. Try them: they’re wonderful! Laura Scudders sells a natural peanut butter in the larger chain stores. Otherwise, try your local health food stores for the other kinds. Kelly Flynn

Response:

My vet has said the same thing about peanut butter. Use peanut butter in small amounts and not everyday. A treat here or there is fine… Rob. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. > I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as > they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can > develop > the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a > vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: > http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm > I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not > getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you > should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs > a > balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be > helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested > in > avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best > for > your young and growing grey. > There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian > nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: > http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more > information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will > help > you with any more nutrition questions you may have. > Gloria

Response:

   Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays)    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any advice would be appreciated                                                                  thank you

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any > advice would be appreciated

Sure.  Just keep in mind peanut butter is fattening. You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. Kevin — http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter….

mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can develop the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs a balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested in avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best for your young and growing grey. There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will help you with any more nutrition questions you may have. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food > and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his > food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same > size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more > fat…..any > advice would be appreciated >                                                                  thank > you

Response:

> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then? > Thanks – Maura

Absolutely! — LIZ

Response:

:     Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe :     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura Our two greys (Kiwi the CAG and Gizmo the TAG), White Capped Pionus (Hobie) and our Severe Macaw (Yes he’s stuck on the name Rambo which we hate) all love peanuts.  We limit the number they get due to the fat content but I imagine that peanut butter is no worse (or better).  So if your bird loves it, why not let him have limited amounts. — Mike Holland                   |*****  /  *****|  Internet: 2015 South Park Place          |*   / / /_/   *|  HPDESK: Atlanta, Georgia 30339         |***    /    ***| Mike Holland/HPATC/03 Phone: (404) 850-2449          |***** /   *****|  Telnet: 1-850-2449

Response:

>> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then?

Ever noticed how amazons always love fattening things?  Anyway, all four of our birds love peanut butter sandwiches.  We make them on wheat bread so we can pretend it is good for them.  I’m sure the protein is actually good for them, but peanut butter is high in fat.  Our amazons and grey are allowed 1/4 of a sandwich each.  We let our macaw have up to a half (I get whatever is left). It is definitely one of their favorite treats. Susan

Response:

    Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura We make 8 little peanut butter "sliders" every other morning: a small peanut butter sandwich with bird vitamins mixed in. The little twerps don’t even know the vitamins are there. It’s nice to win one now & then… –Doug — Douglas Roberts, TSA-DO/SA     | Los Alamos National Laboratory | All good work is done in defiance (505)667-4569                  |

Response:

Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge now and then? Thanks – Maura

Response:

+ You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted + raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. My cockatiels turned their beaks up at it. Shelled peanuts, too. James

Response:

My vet advised me to use peanut butter only as a vehicle to get medicines into an ailing bird. Otherwise it is too fattening for continued good health of the bird. TTFN A – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…. > mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them > busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

I forgot to mention, my vet told be it was too fattening to give often, so it is a very rare treat and I spread it thinly all over the spoon to make it last longer. if memmory serves correctly, this was a very young bird in the original message. I dont remember about their nutritional needs, too many years ago. carie

Response:

I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and the birds don’t know the difference!

Response:

: I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very : fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and : the birds don’t know the difference! I agree, nut butters (don’t forget the yummy ones like cashew butter and almond butter!) are good as part of a balanced diet, in moderation. More of a treat. I prefer to use the ‘natural’ kind, where the only ingredient on the label are: the nuts. No salt, sugars or extra hydrogenated oils to keep it mixed. So when you see these butters, the oil may be seperated out somewhat is the jar. This is fine: just flip it upside down for a bit and then stir it in and refrigerate. Try them: they’re wonderful! Laura Scudders sells a natural peanut butter in the larger chain stores. Otherwise, try your local health food stores for the other kinds. Kelly Flynn

Response:

My vet has said the same thing about peanut butter. Use peanut butter in small amounts and not everyday. A treat here or there is fine… Rob. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. > I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as > they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can > develop > the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a > vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: > http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm > I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not > getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you > should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs > a > balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be > helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested > in > avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best > for > your young and growing grey. > There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian > nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: > http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more > information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will > help > you with any more nutrition questions you may have. > Gloria

Response:

   Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays)    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any advice would be appreciated                                                                  thank you

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any > advice would be appreciated

Sure.  Just keep in mind peanut butter is fattening. You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. Kevin — http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter….

mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can develop the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs a balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested in avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best for your young and growing grey. There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will help you with any more nutrition questions you may have. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food > and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his > food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same > size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more > fat…..any > advice would be appreciated >                                                                  thank > you

Response:

> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then? > Thanks – Maura

Absolutely! — LIZ

Response:

:     Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe :     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura Our two greys (Kiwi the CAG and Gizmo the TAG), White Capped Pionus (Hobie) and our Severe Macaw (Yes he’s stuck on the name Rambo which we hate) all love peanuts.  We limit the number they get due to the fat content but I imagine that peanut butter is no worse (or better).  So if your bird loves it, why not let him have limited amounts. — Mike Holland                   |*****  /  *****|  Internet: 2015 South Park Place          |*   / / /_/   *|  HPDESK: Atlanta, Georgia 30339         |***    /    ***| Mike Holland/HPATC/03 Phone: (404) 850-2449          |***** /   *****|  Telnet: 1-850-2449

Response:

>> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then?

Ever noticed how amazons always love fattening things?  Anyway, all four of our birds love peanut butter sandwiches.  We make them on wheat bread so we can pretend it is good for them.  I’m sure the protein is actually good for them, but peanut butter is high in fat.  Our amazons and grey are allowed 1/4 of a sandwich each.  We let our macaw have up to a half (I get whatever is left). It is definitely one of their favorite treats. Susan

Response:

    Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura We make 8 little peanut butter "sliders" every other morning: a small peanut butter sandwich with bird vitamins mixed in. The little twerps don’t even know the vitamins are there. It’s nice to win one now & then… –Doug — Douglas Roberts, TSA-DO/SA     | Los Alamos National Laboratory | All good work is done in defiance (505)667-4569                  |

Response:

Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge now and then? Thanks – Maura

Response:

+ You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted + raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. My cockatiels turned their beaks up at it. Shelled peanuts, too. James

Response:

My vet advised me to use peanut butter only as a vehicle to get medicines into an ailing bird. Otherwise it is too fattening for continued good health of the bird. TTFN A – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…. > mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them > busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

I forgot to mention, my vet told be it was too fattening to give often, so it is a very rare treat and I spread it thinly all over the spoon to make it last longer. if memmory serves correctly, this was a very young bird in the original message. I dont remember about their nutritional needs, too many years ago. carie

Response:

I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and the birds don’t know the difference!

Response:

: I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very : fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and : the birds don’t know the difference! I agree, nut butters (don’t forget the yummy ones like cashew butter and almond butter!) are good as part of a balanced diet, in moderation. More of a treat. I prefer to use the ‘natural’ kind, where the only ingredient on the label are: the nuts. No salt, sugars or extra hydrogenated oils to keep it mixed. So when you see these butters, the oil may be seperated out somewhat is the jar. This is fine: just flip it upside down for a bit and then stir it in and refrigerate. Try them: they’re wonderful! Laura Scudders sells a natural peanut butter in the larger chain stores. Otherwise, try your local health food stores for the other kinds. Kelly Flynn

Response:

My vet has said the same thing about peanut butter. Use peanut butter in small amounts and not everyday. A treat here or there is fine… Rob. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. > I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as > they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can > develop > the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a > vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: > http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm > I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not > getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you > should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs > a > balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be > helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested > in > avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best > for > your young and growing grey. > There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian > nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: > http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more > information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will > help > you with any more nutrition questions you may have. > Gloria

Response:

   Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays)    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any advice would be appreciated                                                                  thank you

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any > advice would be appreciated

Sure.  Just keep in mind peanut butter is fattening. You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. Kevin — http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter….

mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can develop the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs a balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested in avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best for your young and growing grey. There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will help you with any more nutrition questions you may have. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food > and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his > food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same > size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more > fat…..any > advice would be appreciated >                                                                  thank > you

Response:

> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then? > Thanks – Maura

Absolutely! — LIZ

Response:

:     Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe :     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura Our two greys (Kiwi the CAG and Gizmo the TAG), White Capped Pionus (Hobie) and our Severe Macaw (Yes he’s stuck on the name Rambo which we hate) all love peanuts.  We limit the number they get due to the fat content but I imagine that peanut butter is no worse (or better).  So if your bird loves it, why not let him have limited amounts. — Mike Holland                   |*****  /  *****|  Internet: 2015 South Park Place          |*   / / /_/   *|  HPDESK: Atlanta, Georgia 30339         |***    /    ***| Mike Holland/HPATC/03 Phone: (404) 850-2449          |***** /   *****|  Telnet: 1-850-2449

Response:

>> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then?

Ever noticed how amazons always love fattening things?  Anyway, all four of our birds love peanut butter sandwiches.  We make them on wheat bread so we can pretend it is good for them.  I’m sure the protein is actually good for them, but peanut butter is high in fat.  Our amazons and grey are allowed 1/4 of a sandwich each.  We let our macaw have up to a half (I get whatever is left). It is definitely one of their favorite treats. Susan

Response:

    Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura We make 8 little peanut butter "sliders" every other morning: a small peanut butter sandwich with bird vitamins mixed in. The little twerps don’t even know the vitamins are there. It’s nice to win one now & then… –Doug — Douglas Roberts, TSA-DO/SA     | Los Alamos National Laboratory | All good work is done in defiance (505)667-4569                  |

Response:

Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge now and then? Thanks – Maura

Response:

+ You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted + raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. My cockatiels turned their beaks up at it. Shelled peanuts, too. James

Response:

My vet advised me to use peanut butter only as a vehicle to get medicines into an ailing bird. Otherwise it is too fattening for continued good health of the bird. TTFN A – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…. > mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them > busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

I forgot to mention, my vet told be it was too fattening to give often, so it is a very rare treat and I spread it thinly all over the spoon to make it last longer. if memmory serves correctly, this was a very young bird in the original message. I dont remember about their nutritional needs, too many years ago. carie

Response:

I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and the birds don’t know the difference!

Response:

: I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very : fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and : the birds don’t know the difference! I agree, nut butters (don’t forget the yummy ones like cashew butter and almond butter!) are good as part of a balanced diet, in moderation. More of a treat. I prefer to use the ‘natural’ kind, where the only ingredient on the label are: the nuts. No salt, sugars or extra hydrogenated oils to keep it mixed. So when you see these butters, the oil may be seperated out somewhat is the jar. This is fine: just flip it upside down for a bit and then stir it in and refrigerate. Try them: they’re wonderful! Laura Scudders sells a natural peanut butter in the larger chain stores. Otherwise, try your local health food stores for the other kinds. Kelly Flynn

Response:

My vet has said the same thing about peanut butter. Use peanut butter in small amounts and not everyday. A treat here or there is fine… Rob. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. > I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as > they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can > develop > the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a > vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: > http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm > I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not > getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you > should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs > a > balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be > helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested > in > avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best > for > your young and growing grey. > There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian > nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: > http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more > information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will > help > you with any more nutrition questions you may have. > Gloria

Response:

   Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays)    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any advice would be appreciated                                                                  thank you

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any > advice would be appreciated

Sure.  Just keep in mind peanut butter is fattening. You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. Kevin — http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter….

mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can develop the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs a balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested in avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best for your young and growing grey. There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will help you with any more nutrition questions you may have. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food > and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his > food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same > size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more > fat…..any > advice would be appreciated >                                                                  thank > you

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> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then? > Thanks – Maura

Absolutely! — LIZ

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:     Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe :     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura Our two greys (Kiwi the CAG and Gizmo the TAG), White Capped Pionus (Hobie) and our Severe Macaw (Yes he’s stuck on the name Rambo which we hate) all love peanuts.  We limit the number they get due to the fat content but I imagine that peanut butter is no worse (or better).  So if your bird loves it, why not let him have limited amounts. — Mike Holland                   |*****  /  *****|  Internet: 2015 South Park Place          |*   / / /_/   *|  HPDESK: Atlanta, Georgia 30339         |***    /    ***| Mike Holland/HPATC/03 Phone: (404) 850-2449          |***** /   *****|  Telnet: 1-850-2449

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>> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then?

Ever noticed how amazons always love fattening things?  Anyway, all four of our birds love peanut butter sandwiches.  We make them on wheat bread so we can pretend it is good for them.  I’m sure the protein is actually good for them, but peanut butter is high in fat.  Our amazons and grey are allowed 1/4 of a sandwich each.  We let our macaw have up to a half (I get whatever is left). It is definitely one of their favorite treats. Susan

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    Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura We make 8 little peanut butter "sliders" every other morning: a small peanut butter sandwich with bird vitamins mixed in. The little twerps don’t even know the vitamins are there. It’s nice to win one now & then… –Doug — Douglas Roberts, TSA-DO/SA     | Los Alamos National Laboratory | All good work is done in defiance (505)667-4569                  |

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Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge now and then? Thanks – Maura

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+ You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted + raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. My cockatiels turned their beaks up at it. Shelled peanuts, too. James

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My vet advised me to use peanut butter only as a vehicle to get medicines into an ailing bird. Otherwise it is too fattening for continued good health of the bird. TTFN A – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…. > mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them > busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

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I forgot to mention, my vet told be it was too fattening to give often, so it is a very rare treat and I spread it thinly all over the spoon to make it last longer. if memmory serves correctly, this was a very young bird in the original message. I dont remember about their nutritional needs, too many years ago. carie

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I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and the birds don’t know the difference!

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: I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very : fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and : the birds don’t know the difference! I agree, nut butters (don’t forget the yummy ones like cashew butter and almond butter!) are good as part of a balanced diet, in moderation. More of a treat. I prefer to use the ‘natural’ kind, where the only ingredient on the label are: the nuts. No salt, sugars or extra hydrogenated oils to keep it mixed. So when you see these butters, the oil may be seperated out somewhat is the jar. This is fine: just flip it upside down for a bit and then stir it in and refrigerate. Try them: they’re wonderful! Laura Scudders sells a natural peanut butter in the larger chain stores. Otherwise, try your local health food stores for the other kinds. Kelly Flynn

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My vet has said the same thing about peanut butter. Use peanut butter in small amounts and not everyday. A treat here or there is fine… Rob. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. > I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as > they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can > develop > the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a > vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: > http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm > I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not > getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you > should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs > a > balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be > helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested > in > avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best > for > your young and growing grey. > There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian > nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: > http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more > information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will > help > you with any more nutrition questions you may have. > Gloria

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   Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays)    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any advice would be appreciated                                                                  thank you

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>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any > advice would be appreciated

Sure.  Just keep in mind peanut butter is fattening. You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. Kevin — http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/

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>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter….

mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can develop the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs a balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested in avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best for your young and growing grey. There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will help you with any more nutrition questions you may have. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food > and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his > food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same > size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more > fat…..any > advice would be appreciated >                                                                  thank > you

Response:

> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then? > Thanks – Maura

Absolutely! — LIZ

Response:

:     Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe :     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura Our two greys (Kiwi the CAG and Gizmo the TAG), White Capped Pionus (Hobie) and our Severe Macaw (Yes he’s stuck on the name Rambo which we hate) all love peanuts.  We limit the number they get due to the fat content but I imagine that peanut butter is no worse (or better).  So if your bird loves it, why not let him have limited amounts. — Mike Holland                   |*****  /  *****|  Internet: 2015 South Park Place          |*   / / /_/   *|  HPDESK: Atlanta, Georgia 30339         |***    /    ***| Mike Holland/HPATC/03 Phone: (404) 850-2449          |***** /   *****|  Telnet: 1-850-2449

Response:

>> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then?

Ever noticed how amazons always love fattening things?  Anyway, all four of our birds love peanut butter sandwiches.  We make them on wheat bread so we can pretend it is good for them.  I’m sure the protein is actually good for them, but peanut butter is high in fat.  Our amazons and grey are allowed 1/4 of a sandwich each.  We let our macaw have up to a half (I get whatever is left). It is definitely one of their favorite treats. Susan

Response:

    Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura We make 8 little peanut butter "sliders" every other morning: a small peanut butter sandwich with bird vitamins mixed in. The little twerps don’t even know the vitamins are there. It’s nice to win one now & then… –Doug — Douglas Roberts, TSA-DO/SA     | Los Alamos National Laboratory | All good work is done in defiance (505)667-4569                  |

Response:

Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge now and then? Thanks – Maura

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