Pure Parents

Question:

I’m going to get some people mad at me, but I don’t think you have any good solutions. With only a year to go to 18, and a disgreement on how bad the problems are between divorced parents, you really can only ask for a way to push you son into becoming an independent adult.   A program like Outward Bound that focuses on individual responsibility and self-value might help.  If you cannot get you ex-wife AND your son to agree, then I would talk to a lawyer who deals with the Juvinal courts and see if there is a way to get the courts to order the "treatment" since you are willing to foot the bill.  If he doesn’t come out a success story at least he will know that you want him to become a better person, which may be worth something. Good Luck,    My kids haven’t reached that age, and I hope not to see that level of problem, but you never can tell.

Response:

Glenn – Your situation with your son is complicated by several factors:  your son’s age, his use of illegal substances, and his mother’s apparent support of his choices, and the sharp differences of opinion between you both.  I was actually quite surprised to hear that he is attending counseling after reading everything else.  That could be interpreted to mean that he understands that something is not quite right and that he needs help.  This could be your foot in the door for obtaining help, but it is not a big foot. So, *if* your son listens to you at all at this point, you might want to try talking him into participating in substance abuse counseling with possibly even a short residential setting [ie: 30 day program] for a full evaluation and intensive beginning of counsleing.  This may be available through the Juvenile Justice folks and you should talk with them about this.  If it is agreed that this would be a good course of action they could write it into his Disposition and it would become part of his Community Control which he must complete before his Juvenile Justice case closes. You mgiht also want to research availability of a program like Outward Bound.  This is a short program and might be effective with him in at least starting him on the turn around from what he is doing now.  This could also be written into the court orders from Juvenile Justice.  They should also know if such a program is available in your area. Now, if you really want to bite a bullet, family counseling with all three of you might be very helpful.  Granted, it would be potentially very difficult to get going if your ex if not responsive, but it *could* lead to the development of a united front between you two and deter him from splitting you more.  You may be able to find a counselor who will come into the home.  In my experience, in-home counselors usually get down to the real issues faster because people hide less of themselves at home.  You would probably want to talk your ex into using her home in order to increase chances that your son would attend. Your son’s age makes all of this more difficult.  I do not know California law, but I suspect that if he has more law violations he is running the risk of being dealt with as an adult by the legal system, now.  From what you describe, he has not changed his involvement in drugs, so this is not unlikley.  Further, he is so close to 18 that he can taste it.  The closer to 18 he gets, the less likely he is to regard parental rules and decisions as something he needs to comply with.  For this reason I suggest that you find the local Tough Love folks and attend a few of their meetings [at least] to get a hearing of their view points and interventions.  You might also want to attend an Al-Anon [spelling?] group for support and ideas dealing with the substance abuse by both your son and ex-spouse.  You could use support and a place to vent, most likely, and this could be an excellent place/group for that. You do not say how long you have been divorced or how long your son lived with you after the divorce and if he was exposed to in home substance abuse prior to the divorce.  If he lived with you for some time and was exposed to a supportive stable home environment for his early years he should have developed many pro-social skills that, in the long run, can pull him out of where he is at now.  There comes a point where we parents have to let go and hope that we taught our kids what they need and just stand back and watch [lovingly and ready to assist at their request] while they make many of the same/similar mistakes we made when we were younger.  It sounds like you really care about your son and want to give him more tools to become successful in this world.  Good luck.  I really hope things work out, but be prepared that things are probably going to be quite difficult for a while yet. Oh, yes, as to behavioral camps, other than Outward Bound I am most familiar with long term facilities like Eckerd Camp.  Most of those facilities do a great job with kids who display alot of the behaviors/needs you describe. They do best, however, with kids who are a bit younger and, in fact, many of them do not accept youths for admission once they are past their 17th birthday.  If you have found one that does, you may have found a gem, particularly if your son could potentially be allowed to stay after his 18th birthday if he has not completed the program.  Boot camps, on the other hand, are being closed all over the State of Florida [where I live] as generally unsuccessful. – Aula

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->How close to 18 is your son? > He will be 18 on September 2, 2000 >  What is his current diagnosis? > None.  In counseling but he is not "diseased" >  Where do you reside [country/state]? > Sacramento California > Is he at all open >to the idea/have you discussed with him? > Generally he is not open.  The concept has been aired ("Your’e not > taking me away from my friends."), but not duscussed with any detail. > No need to discuss until his parents have decide if it is an > appropriate course of action. >  What is his current school >performance/related issues? > Dreadful student.  Failing all classes, even his beloved guitar. > Disruptive, argumentative, disrespectful, suspensions, meetings, etc. >  Is he involved with the legal system yet? > Yes, recently cited for possession of 2-3 grams of marijuana causing > expulsion from school district.  Currently enrolled in an alternative > school program that he will not attend. >  What other interventions have you tried and what success/failures were noted and >why? > Complication of failure/punishment and success/reward is inconsistent > parenting.  Divorced, 50% custody.  Son will not live with me due to > expectations and rules.  Runs away to mother’s.  Mother has lied to me > and to police as to son’s whereabouts.  After three weeks of this > total bull**** son lives with mom fulltime. > Courts will not intervene due to custody being 50/50 and not defining > exactly which days where.  Courts will not accept set schedule without > mother’s approval.  She does not. > Mother is running interference for son.  This is why a neutral > environment seems to make some sense. > I have a number of years experience case managing severely emotionally >disturbed children both in the community and residential treatment settings >[including wilderness programs].  I have learned that all these factors [and >some others] impact on the efficacy of a wilderness program. > This is a very bright and good kid who has been making some really bad > lifestyle and personal decisions lately.  Any attempt to set > bounderies is thwarted by mother.  Son does not have curfew, is not > required to keep mother informed of whereabouts, is not required to go > to school, smokes pot on a daily basis in mother’s home (to my > knowledge she does not), is allowed any friend no matter the influence > (mother recently moved our son’s 19 year-old drug supplier into her > household). > In leiu of school, mother has son working two jobs and keeping much of > his income herself.  Gives him enough that he doesn’t complain.  Since > May about $1,500 is unaccounted for. > Yes, child protective services and her probation officer have been > informed (she is a conviced felon for welfare fraud).  Their response > is that the situation is not bad enough to act or until she or my son > are arrested they can do nothing. > There are two siblings age 13 and 10 that I am trying to get out of > the environment by negotiation or force of the courts. > Even if I want a camp program for my 17 year old son I will need > either her approval or the court to intervene.  The first is not > likely, the second is almost an impossibility. > I’m not cynical of the courts, I’m a realist and I’ve been there > before. > This isn’t an exercise in futility.  If the son suddenly says yes, > mother will not say no.

Response:

 To tell you the truth, the most definative thing about your message is that you and your ex are really into locking horns. You’re divorced, but your son lives with his mother. You seem to have NO power at all in this situation.  What should you do? Give up. He’s 17. He essentially does whatever he wants. He likes it. There is no one with the power to get him to change his ways. He’s 17, going on 35. Accept the fact that he has made a play for power and won.  How about accepting your son as a friend, and cease trying to inflict you will on him. You lost. You can’t do it.  If you’re sad about that, check into counselling for yourself.  You can still have a long, and rewarding relationship with your son. It’s just that he grew up faster than you expected. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->How close to 18 is your son? >He will be 18 on September 2, 2000 >  What is his current diagnosis? >None.  In counseling but he is not "diseased" >  Where do you reside [country/state]? >Sacramento California > Is he at all open >to the idea/have you discussed with him? >Generally he is not open.  The concept has been aired ("Your’e not >taking me away from my friends."), but not duscussed with any detail. >No need to discuss until his parents have decide if it is an >appropriate course of action. >  What is his current school >performance/related issues? >Dreadful student.  Failing all classes, even his beloved guitar. >Disruptive, argumentative, disrespectful, suspensions, meetings, etc. >  Is he involved with the legal system yet? >Yes, recently cited for possession of 2-3 grams of marijuana causing >expulsion from school district.  Currently enrolled in an alternative >school program that he will not attend. >  What other interventions have you tried and what success/failures were noted and >why? >Complication of failure/punishment and success/reward is inconsistent >parenting.  Divorced, 50% custody.  Son will not live with me due to >expectations and rules.  Runs away to mother’s.  Mother has lied to me >and to police as to son’s whereabouts.  After three weeks of this >total bull**** son lives with mom fulltime. >Courts will not intervene due to custody being 50/50 and not defining >exactly which days where.  Courts will not accept set schedule without >mother’s approval.  She does not. >Mother is running interference for son.  This is why a neutral >environment seems to make some sense. > I have a number of years experience case managing severely emotionally >disturbed children both in the community and residential treatment settings >[including wilderness programs].  I have learned that all these factors [and >some others] impact on the efficacy of a wilderness program. >This is a very bright and good kid who has been making some really bad >lifestyle and personal decisions lately.  Any attempt to set >bounderies is thwarted by mother.  Son does not have curfew, is not >required to keep mother informed of whereabouts, is not required to go >to school, smokes pot on a daily basis in mother’s home (to my >knowledge she does not), is allowed any friend no matter the influence >(mother recently moved our son’s 19 year-old drug supplier into her >household). >In leiu of school, mother has son working two jobs and keeping much of >his income herself.  Gives him enough that he doesn’t complain.  Since >May about $1,500 is unaccounted for. >Yes, child protective services and her probation officer have been >informed (she is a conviced felon for welfare fraud).  Their response >is that the situation is not bad enough to act or until she or my son >are arrested they can do nothing. >There are two siblings age 13 and 10 that I am trying to get out of >the environment by negotiation or force of the courts. >Even if I want a camp program for my 17 year old son I will need >either her approval or the court to intervene.  The first is not >likely, the second is almost an impossibility. >I’m not cynical of the courts, I’m a realist and I’ve been there >before. >This isn’t an exercise in futility.  If the son suddenly says yes, >mother will not say no.

Response:

>How close to 18 is your son?

He will be 18 on September 2, 2000 >  What is his current diagnosis?

None.  In counseling but he is not "diseased" >  Where do you reside [country/state]?

Sacramento California > Is he at all open >to the idea/have you discussed with him?

Generally he is not open.  The concept has been aired ("Your’e not taking me away from my friends."), but not duscussed with any detail. No need to discuss until his parents have decide if it is an appropriate course of action. >  What is his current school >performance/related issues?

Dreadful student.  Failing all classes, even his beloved guitar. Disruptive, argumentative, disrespectful, suspensions, meetings, etc. >  Is he involved with the legal system yet?

Yes, recently cited for possession of 2-3 grams of marijuana causing expulsion from school district.  Currently enrolled in an alternative school program that he will not attend. >  What other interventions have you tried and what success/failures were noted and >why?

Complication of failure/punishment and success/reward is inconsistent parenting.  Divorced, 50% custody.  Son will not live with me due to expectations and rules.  Runs away to mother’s.  Mother has lied to me and to police as to son’s whereabouts.  After three weeks of this total bull**** son lives with mom fulltime. Courts will not intervene due to custody being 50/50 and not defining exactly which days where.  Courts will not accept set schedule without mother’s approval.  She does not. Mother is running interference for son.  This is why a neutral environment seems to make some sense. > I have a number of years experience case managing severely emotionally >disturbed children both in the community and residential treatment settings >[including wilderness programs].  I have learned that all these factors [and >some others] impact on the efficacy of a wilderness program.

This is a very bright and good kid who has been making some really bad lifestyle and personal decisions lately.  Any attempt to set bounderies is thwarted by mother.  Son does not have curfew, is not required to keep mother informed of whereabouts, is not required to go to school, smokes pot on a daily basis in mother’s home (to my knowledge she does not), is allowed any friend no matter the influence (mother recently moved our son’s 19 year-old drug supplier into her household). In leiu of school, mother has son working two jobs and keeping much of his income herself.  Gives him enough that he doesn’t complain.  Since May about $1,500 is unaccounted for. Yes, child protective services and her probation officer have been informed (she is a conviced felon for welfare fraud).  Their response is that the situation is not bad enough to act or until she or my son are arrested they can do nothing. There are two siblings age 13 and 10 that I am trying to get out of the environment by negotiation or force of the courts. Even if I want a camp program for my 17 year old son I will need either her approval or the court to intervene.  The first is not likely, the second is almost an impossibility. I’m not cynical of the courts, I’m a realist and I’ve been there before. This isn’t an exercise in futility.  If the son suddenly says yes, mother will not say no.

Response:

I share custody of my 17 year old son who has become defiant, truant, and using marijuana on a daily basis.  I am considering utilizing one of those behavior modification wilderness camps.  I’m not so keen on the boot-camps, but have found some of the programs interesting. This is a lot of money and we are not able to afford such costs without serious financial setback.  Our kid is worth it, but only if this is going to work. Thoughts, experiences, recommendations? Glenn Hagele Council for Refractive Surgery Quality Assurance http://www.usaeyes.org

Response:

I don’t have a lot of time tonight to type at you about this but let me quickly raise a few thoughts.  How close to 18 is your son?  What is his current diagnosis?  Where do you reside [country/state]?  Is he at all open to the idea/have you discussed with him?  What is his current school performance/related issues?  Is he involved with the legal system yet?  What other interventions have you tried and what success/failures were noted and why?  I have a number of years experience case managing severely emotionally disturbed children both in the community and residential treatment settings [including wilderness programs].  I have learned that all these factors [and some others] impact on the efficacy of a wilderness program. – Aula

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I share custody of my 17 year old son who has become defiant, truant, > and using marijuana on a daily basis.  I am considering utilizing one > of those behavior modification wilderness camps.  I’m not so keen on > the boot-camps, but have found some of the programs interesting. > This is a lot of money and we are not able to afford such costs > without serious financial setback.  Our kid is worth it, but only if > this is going to work. > Thoughts, experiences, recommendations? > Glenn Hagele > Council for Refractive Surgery Quality Assurance > http://www.usaeyes.org

Response: