> > Hell, when your high as a kite, you are generally pretty cooperative and > mellow (albeit sometimes paranoid), so his mother’s clueless reaction is > pretty understandable. > How many marijuana abusers have you been around in your life?  They’re > irritable, cranky, rude, and obnoxious, especially when they’re NOT > high.  If you think being high makes you cooperative and mellow, head > for your nearest "alternative school" or juvenile detention facility, > I have some kids I want you to meet. > — Jack Tarkaan

ALL the various features of the personality of pot-smokers are as easily attributable to the beliefs of rebel culture required to violate the society’s strictures against its use and fear and resentment of prosecution. If you can’t separate such variables in your statements you are promoting pure baloney. People often mistake medical statements of ATTENDANT conditions with cause and effect. Steve

Response:

> How many marijuana abusers have you been around in your life?  They’re > irritable, cranky, rude, and obnoxious, especially when they’re NOT > high.  If you think being high makes you cooperative and mellow, head > for your nearest "alternative school" or juvenile detention facility, > I have some kids I want you to meet.

Funny, your experience doesn’t at all match mine. I’ve met many pot abusers, and mostly they are very passive, both when they are high, and worse, when they are not.  As far as I can tell, pot abuse tends to rob people of any ambition to do much of anything.  And they didn’t seem any more cranky than anyone else, either intoxicated or not. Cathy Before you buy.

Response:

Annmarie, I know for a fact you express yourself well with the written word.  Why not write her a letter?  This way you have plenty of time to think about each and every word before it’s expressed, and pick the BEST way to say each thing.  It also solves the problem of being in a public place, or having other people around.  Most letters can be read in private, and if it’s not private when the letter is first read, it can wait until it IS private. It will also give the parent a chance to respond to your letter without losing face.  I would not do it anonymously, (that always strikes me as a bit …cowardly), but include your name and phone number to call if she wants to talk more. She might be in denial, and she might not thank you, or might even be downright hostile. (she might do that anyway) But you will have done your part, and the ball will be in HER court. I commend you for wanting and being willing to do something.  Too many people in this world turn a blind eye, and think it’s not their problem.  When I learned about the Kitty Genovese affair in a Psychology class, I vowed not to be like that.  And I’m proud to say, that even though my first response in possibly bad situations is to do nothing, I’ve consciously made myself do something. (I recently called 911 on my cell phone when I saw there had been a minor car wreck, even though I figured someone had already called, and I was right, according to the dispatcher).  I also caught a baby that fell off a chair, where her stupid mother had placed her.  I figure, life’s too short to worry about getting sued. Cathy Weeks – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ok guys, I have been stewing on this for a while, but not posting because of > the different attitudes to alcohol, so don’t start an anti alcohol flame. > To clarify in NZ, underage drinking in a limited way in a safe environment > is accepted.  You don’t have to agree with this, just believe me that the > culture here is different to the US. > Now to the problem > When my son had his party in early feb, there was an alcohol limit of 3 > beers each (15 and 16 yr olds) remember this is NZ.  There was one child who > brought a bottle of wine, for his own consumption.  This teenager also kept > sneeking off to have a smoke, just tobacco. > I was a bit worried about this kid and mentioned it to one of the parents > who has older children.  This boy according to her daughter has been seen at > other parties, of mostly older kids, getting drunk, smoking dope etc. She > also said that she had tried to talk to the mother but been cut off mid > stream, and said in her opinion the parents are in denial.  I mentioned it > to the class teacher and suggested it would be good if they watched this > boy, that he was headed for trouble. > Since then, I have talked to a teenager that I get on with very well he is > 17 going 18, and said he had seen this boy at parties, as high as a kite, > and there is even talk that he is using acid. > Now to the point.  I bumped into his mum recently in the gallery, and asked > if her son was going to an upcoming party.  Her response just about floored > me.  She said ohh I don’t know, he’s not much of a party goer. Prefers to > stay at home.  It so nice having a teenager that is soooo good, and no > problem. > There was a friend of hers there, or I would have taken the opportunity to > tell her the truth, but just couldn’t bring myself to do that in front of > her friend. > So guys, I am really worried about this kid.  I am very fond of him, have > known him since he was 8, and the parents are nice people, just deluded. > What do you do.  This kid needs help, and his parents are in denial. > Annemarie

Before you buy.

Response:

Try not to take it personally and get upset if the mother does not react well. You are doing the right thing whether she wants to hear it or not – and no one really wants to hear that their child has possibly serious problems. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Thanks everyone for your imput.  I guess I have known all along that I > really have to do something, but I’m being chicken and procrastinating > because I don’t want to.  It will not be easy.  I will report back what > happens. > Thanks > Annemarie

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > How many marijuana abusers have you been around in your life?  They’re > > > irritable, cranky, rude, and obnoxious, especially when they’re NOT > > > high.  If you think being high makes you cooperative and mellow, head > > > for your nearest "alternative school" or juvenile detention facility, > > > I have some kids I want you to meet. > > Funny, your experience doesn’t at all match mine. I’ve met many pot > > abusers, and mostly they are very passive, both when they are high, and > > worse, when they are not.  As far as I can tell, pot abuse tends to rob > > people of any ambition to do much of anything.  And they didn’t seem > > any more cranky than anyone else, either intoxicated or not. > > Cathy > You’re all pointing to features of the PEOPLE who tend to get pointed at > for drug use, NOT the result of the drug use. People who get pointed at > are different in the first place. If they were the same as many others, > or if they were productive they wouldn’t get pointed at. People do drugs > a lot instead of living an interesting life BECAUSE they are: angry, > disturbed, anxiety-ridden, or if they are depressed and lethargic. So > others assume that the drugs cause this, they don’t. Many people who do > drugs look just like you in virtually every way! > Steve > This is probably true in this case anyway, though I think in the long term > marijuana use in teenagers does cause depression, but not in the beginning. > This teenager appears, fairly bright and well behaved, in a way, but there > is something about him that shows, and it is not just the dred locks.  I > have seen other teenagers that are a bit older though, and the further they > get into the drug seen, and the more dependant they become on the drugs, the > more they withdraw and become moody etc.  JMO > Annemarie

It’s been noted many times now that all the particular "signs and symptoms" of drug use are every bit as applicable to the features of people’s lives which might cause them to wish to either use drugs or to be a member of a disaffected minority, AND that it is quite impossible really to distinguish which is really cause and which is really effect. The failure to distinguish this has been a sad feature of the "war on drugs" from the very beginning, and little truth is available. The key feature of the war on drugs is that in every decade whatever is regarded as the hallmark of a social undesirability has been blamed on drugs. This suggests that the goverment thinks that fixed drugs have changing effects in each different decade, which is lunacy. Steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > How many marijuana abusers have you been around in your life?  They’re > > irritable, cranky, rude, and obnoxious, especially when they’re NOT > > high.  If you think being high makes you cooperative and mellow, head > > for your nearest "alternative school" or juvenile detention facility, > > I have some kids I want you to meet. > Funny, your experience doesn’t at all match mine. I’ve met many pot > abusers, and mostly they are very passive, both when they are high, and > worse, when they are not.  As far as I can tell, pot abuse tends to rob > people of any ambition to do much of anything.  And they didn’t seem > any more cranky than anyone else, either intoxicated or not. > Cathy > You’re all pointing to features of the PEOPLE who tend to get pointed at > for drug use, NOT the result of the drug use. People who get pointed at > are different in the first place. If they were the same as many others, > or if they were productive they wouldn’t get pointed at. People do drugs > a lot instead of living an interesting life BECAUSE they are: angry, > disturbed, anxiety-ridden, or if they are depressed and lethargic. So > others assume that the drugs cause this, they don’t. Many people who do > drugs look just like you in virtually every way! > Steve

This is probably true in this case anyway, though I think in the long term marijuana use in teenagers does cause depression, but not in the beginning. This teenager appears, fairly bright and well behaved, in a way, but there is something about him that shows, and it is not just the dred locks.  I have seen other teenagers that are a bit older though, and the further they get into the drug seen, and the more dependant they become on the drugs, the more they withdraw and become moody etc.  JMO Annemarie

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Ok guys, I have been stewing on this for a while, but not posting because of >the different attitudes to alcohol, so don’t start an anti alcohol flame. >To clarify in NZ, underage drinking in a limited way in a safe environment >is accepted.  You don’t have to agree with this, just believe me that the >culture here is different to the US. >Now to the problem >When my son had his party in early feb, there was an alcohol limit of 3 >beers each (15 and 16 yr olds) remember this is NZ.  There was one child who >brought a bottle of wine, for his own consumption.  This teenager also kept >sneeking off to have a smoke, just tobacco. >I was a bit worried about this kid and mentioned it to one of the parents >who has older children.  This boy according to her daughter has been seen at >other parties, of mostly older kids, getting drunk, smoking dope etc. >She >also said that she had tried to talk to the mother but been cut off mid >stream, and said in her opinion the parents are in denial.  I mentioned it >to the class teacher and suggested it would be good if they watched this >boy, that he was headed for trouble. >Since then, I have talked to a teenager that I get on with very well he is >17 going 18, and said he had seen this boy at parties, as high as a kite, >and there is even talk that he is using acid. >Now to the point.  I bumped into his mum recently in the gallery, and asked >if her son was going to an upcoming party.  Her response just about floored >me.  She said ohh I don’t know, he’s not much of a party goer.  Prefers to >stay at home.  It so nice having a teenager that is soooo good, and no >problem. >There was a friend of hers there, or I would have taken the opportunity to >tell her the truth, but just couldn’t bring myself to do that in front of >her friend. >So guys, I am really worried about this kid.  I am very fond of him, have >known him since he was 8, and the parents are nice people, just deluded. >What do you do.  This kid needs help, and his parents are in denial.

They may have to figure it out for themselves but if you know for a fact that he parties often and in this way it might be a good idea to tell his parents. They may brush you off but it’ll be in their minds, hopefully, the next time he exibits the signs. As for the party, if you have another one and he comes you can make it clear to him that he goes by your rules or he doesn’t stay.  I’m not sure what the differences in the law are where I am (the States) but I’ve been to parties as a teen where the parents of a friend were hosting and alcohol was served. They were careful too but they were also responsible for the kids as they left.  If anyone had gotten into an accident because of alcohol, they would have been liable.  If that’s the case in NZ you can use that to make him realize he needs to play by the rules or leave.   But I think 3 beers a kids is reasonable as long as the parents all know about it.  Personally I’d limit it to 2 but I don’t know the strength of your beers Good luck, Kendra ~*~*~*~ Love is blind, but marriage is an eye opener.

Response:

Thanks everyone for your imput.  I guess I have known all along that I really have to do something, but I’m being chicken and procrastinating because I don’t want to.  It will not be easy.  I will report back what happens. Thanks Annemarie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Consider inviting the mother for coffee or tea and tell her in private > when there aren’t a lot of other people around. BUT be prepared for > denial and possibly anger. Even if you are pretty sure that will be her > response, I still think you should tell her. Perhaps some of this > behavior is the kid crying our for attention and she is ignoring him.

Response:

I agree with these ideas and also suggest that you have on hand [or in the letter] a brochure type thing that describes the typical behavior of someone who is using pot and other substances to excess.  Even if the parents don’t listen to you right off they might just keep that, read it, and start seeing things for themselves.  Worth a shot, anyway. -Aula

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I think the suggestions you have received about either telling her in > person, in private…or sending a letter are both good ideas. > I have no idea what kind of rehabilitation services are available in NZ, but > here there are nationwide parent support services.  If you can give her a > number or a pamplet, I think that would come in handy. > Sarah wrote > > I recently ran a substance abuse workshop in one of the local > > school districts for parents of middle and high school kids and > > this exact question came up. One of the other parents had this > > suggestion which I thought was excellent. She said that if it > > happened to her she would tell the other parent for a couple of > > reasons. First, parents should stick together and even if the > > parent is in denial, at least you have to try. The second reason > > she’d tell the parent had to do with her own son. She wanted to > > let him know that she worried about his friends and that even if > > he was upset that she was "ratting his friend out" the message > > would be that "I wouldn’t want your friend dead from an > > overdose, and I would want another parent to tell me if it was > > happening to you."  On a different note, Annemarie, If you know > > it, I’m curious what the rate of alcohol abuse is in NZ compared > > to US. Just wondering if the more lenient drinking policy is > > better or worse, statistically > > Susan > > http://havinganotherbaby.com > > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion > Network > * > > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free! > Alcohol.  I think it is getting better, certainly our drink driving > statistics are going down very well.  I don’t really know how bad it is in > the US so, really I can only comment on what is happening here. > Personally > I believe that making alcohol a big bad thing that has to be hidden only > makes it worse.  You know history has proved prohibition doesn’t work. > Marijuana on the other hand worries me more.  There is a move to have it > legalized here and I have a problem with that.  I think its all dandy and > fine for adults, but for teenages,  who are probably the biggest users, it > is not fine and dandy.  There have been many studies that link it with > developmental problems, when teens use it. > Complicated issue.  Thanks for the feedback. > Annemarie

Response:

Wrong end of the stick Elaine.  This is a kid who is in the same class as my son, and I like the kid heaps, remember how cute he was when I first met him when he was about eight.  My son does not ‘hang with him’ at all, he  would not be concidered any where near cool enough for this kid anyway.  I just want to help a kid going in the wrong direction, simply for his own sake. Annemarie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> right off hand, I’d have to say that it’s generally a bad idea to hang with > a substance abuser. > We tend to become like our associates.  It would be a good lesson if you > brought this up, and discussed the situation in so many words. > It’s not so much that you dislike the kid, but more that people like this > boy are inappropriate companions. >Ok guys, I have been stewing on this for a while, but not posting because > of >the different attitudes to alcohol, so don’t start an anti alcohol flame. >To clarify in NZ, underage drinking in a limited way in a safe environment >is accepted.  You don’t have to agree with this, just believe me that the >culture here is different to the US. >Now to the problem >When my son had his party in early feb, there was an alcohol limit of 3 >beers each (15 and 16 yr olds) remember this is NZ.  There was one child > who >brought a bottle of wine, for his own consumption.  This teenager also kept >sneeking off to have a smoke, just tobacco. >I was a bit worried about this kid and mentioned it to one of the parents >who has older children.  This boy according to her daughter has been seen > at >other parties, of mostly older kids, getting drunk, smoking dope etc. She >also said that she had tried to talk to the mother but been cut off mid >stream, and said in her opinion the parents are in denial.  I mentioned it >to the class teacher and suggested it would be good if they watched this >boy, that he was headed for trouble. >Since then, I have talked to a teenager that I get on with very well he is >17 going 18, and said he had seen this boy at parties, as high as a kite, >and there is even talk that he is using acid. >Now to the point.  I bumped into his mum recently in the gallery, and asked >if her son was going to an upcoming party.  Her response just about floored >me.  She said ohh I don’t know, he’s not much of a party goer.  Prefers to >stay at home.  It so nice having a teenager that is soooo good, and no >problem. >There was a friend of hers there, or I would have taken the opportunity to >tell her the truth, but just couldn’t bring myself to do that in front of >her friend. >So guys, I am really worried about this kid.  I am very fond of him, have >known him since he was 8, and the parents are nice people, just deluded. >What do you do.  This kid needs help, and his parents are in denial. >Annemarie

Response:

Annemarie, Cathy’s idea to write a letter is really excellent, you should really consider it. Certainly, based on your experience with not getting involved, you’d feel so much better if you did something. Try not to pressure yourself to fix the problem though, because all you can do is tell the mom, after that it’s in her court, no matter how involved you get. Lots of luck to you. Susan http://havinganotherbaby.com * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Thanks Cathy, that may be a solution.  In NZ getting sued is not a problem, it doesn’t happen much, but being abused is still a possibility and not a very pleasant one. I have learnt in my life that it is best to interfere at times.  Once, when I was worried about how a new Mum up the road was coping, I called the nursing care authority here, anyway turns out she had post natal depression, and was caught just in time before something terrible happened. I have also learnt the hard way.  A friend (not a close friend, for me anyway) told me that her husband hit her.  I did NOTHING, and a year down the track he killed her then himself.  Nobody else knew that he was violent, not even his best friend, and his best friend was a close friend of ours. I still carry that guilt.  So life has taught me, to get involved even when I don’t want to. Annemarie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Annmarie, > I know for a fact you express yourself well with the written word.  Why > not write her a letter?  This way you have plenty of time to think > about each and every word before it’s expressed, and pick the BEST way > to say each thing.  It also solves the problem of being in a public > place, or having other people around.  Most letters can be read in > private, and if it’s not private when the letter is first read, it can > wait until it IS private. > It will also give the parent a chance to respond to your letter without > losing face.  I would not do it anonymously, (that always strikes me as > a bit …cowardly), but include your name and phone number to call if > she wants to talk more. > She might be in denial, and she might not thank you, or might even be > downright hostile. (she might do that anyway) But you will have done > your part, and the ball will be in HER court. > I commend you for wanting and being willing to do something.  Too many > people in this world turn a blind eye, and think it’s not their > problem.  When I learned about the Kitty Genovese affair in a > Psychology class, I vowed not to be like that.  And I’m proud to say, > that even though my first response in possibly bad situations is to do > nothing, I’ve consciously made myself do something. (I recently called > 911 on my cell phone when I saw there had been a minor car wreck, even > though I figured someone had already called, and I was right, according > to the dispatcher).  I also caught a baby that fell off a chair, where > her stupid mother had placed her.  I figure, life’s too short to worry > about getting sued. > Cathy Weeks > Ok guys, I have been stewing on this for a while, but not posting > because of > the different attitudes to alcohol, so don’t start an anti alcohol > flame. > To clarify in NZ, underage drinking in a limited way in a safe > environment > is accepted.  You don’t have to agree with this, just believe me that > the > culture here is different to the US. > Now to the problem > When my son had his party in early feb, there was an alcohol limit of > 3 > beers each (15 and 16 yr olds) remember this is NZ.  There was one > child who > brought a bottle of wine, for his own consumption.  This teenager > also kept > sneeking off to have a smoke, just tobacco. > I was a bit worried about this kid and mentioned it to one of the > parents > who has older children.  This boy according to her daughter has been > seen at > other parties, of mostly older kids, getting drunk, smoking dope etc. > She > also said that she had tried to talk to the mother but been cut off > mid > stream, and said in her opinion the parents are in denial.  I > mentioned it > to the class teacher and suggested it would be good if they watched > this > boy, that he was headed for trouble. > Since then, I have talked to a teenager that I get on with very well > he is > 17 going 18, and said he had seen this boy at parties, as high as a > kite, > and there is even talk that he is using acid. > Now to the point.  I bumped into his mum recently in the gallery, and > asked > if her son was going to an upcoming party.  Her response just about > floored > me.  She said ohh I don’t know, he’s not much of a party goer. > Prefers to > stay at home.  It so nice having a teenager that is soooo good, and no > problem. > There was a friend of hers there, or I would have taken the > opportunity to > tell her the truth, but just couldn’t bring myself to do that in > front of > her friend. > So guys, I am really worried about this kid.  I am very fond of him, > have > known him since he was 8, and the parents are nice people, just > deluded. > What do you do.  This kid needs help, and his parents are in denial. > Annemarie > Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> How many marijuana abusers have you been around in your life?  They’re > irritable, cranky, rude, and obnoxious, especially when they’re NOT > high.  If you think being high makes you cooperative and mellow, head > for your nearest "alternative school" or juvenile detention facility, > I have some kids I want you to meet. > Funny, your experience doesn’t at all match mine. I’ve met many pot > abusers, and mostly they are very passive, both when they are high, and > worse, when they are not.  As far as I can tell, pot abuse tends to rob > people of any ambition to do much of anything.  And they didn’t seem > any more cranky than anyone else, either intoxicated or not. > Cathy

You’re all pointing to features of the PEOPLE who tend to get pointed at for drug use, NOT the result of the drug use. People who get pointed at are different in the first place. If they were the same as many others, or if they were productive they wouldn’t get pointed at. People do drugs a lot instead of living an interesting life BECAUSE they are: angry, disturbed, anxiety-ridden, or if they are depressed and lethargic. So others assume that the drugs cause this, they don’t. Many people who do drugs look just like you in virtually every way! Steve

Response:

Consider inviting the mother for coffee or tea and tell her in private when there aren’t a lot of other people around. BUT be prepared for denial and possibly anger. Even if you are pretty sure that will be her response, I still think you should tell her. Perhaps some of this behavior is the kid crying our for attention and she is ignoring him.

Response:

I think the suggestions you have received about either telling her in person, in private…or sending a letter are both good ideas. I have no idea what kind of rehabilitation services are available in NZ, but here there are nationwide parent support services.  If you can give her a number or a pamplet, I think that would come in handy. Sarah

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I recently ran a substance abuse workshop in one of the local > school districts for parents of middle and high school kids and > this exact question came up. One of the other parents had this > suggestion which I thought was excellent. She said that if it > happened to her she would tell the other parent for a couple of > reasons. First, parents should stick together and even if the > parent is in denial, at least you have to try. The second reason > she’d tell the parent had to do with her own son. She wanted to > let him know that she worried about his friends and that even if > he was upset that she was "ratting his friend out" the message > would be that "I wouldn’t want your friend dead from an > overdose, and I would want another parent to tell me if it was > happening to you."  On a different note, Annemarie, If you know > it, I’m curious what the rate of alcohol abuse is in NZ compared > to US. Just wondering if the more lenient drinking policy is > better or worse, statistically > Susan > http://havinganotherbaby.com > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network > * > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free! > Alcohol.  I think it is getting better, certainly our drink driving > statistics are going down very well.  I don’t really know how bad it is in > the US so, really I can only comment on what is happening here. Personally > I believe that making alcohol a big bad thing that has to be hidden only > makes it worse.  You know history has proved prohibition doesn’t work. > Marijuana on the other hand worries me more.  There is a move to have it > legalized here and I have a problem with that.  I think its all dandy and > fine for adults, but for teenages,  who are probably the biggest users, it > is not fine and dandy.  There have been many studies that link it with > developmental problems, when teens use it. > Complicated issue.  Thanks for the feedback. > Annemarie

Response:

>There was a friend of hers there, or I would have taken the opportunity to >tell her the truth, but just couldn’t bring myself to do that in front of >her friend. >So guys, I am really worried about this kid.  I am very fond of him, have >known him since he was 8, and the parents are nice people, just deluded. >What do you do.  This kid needs help, and his parents are in denial.

I’d tell the parents…….either in a letter (my first choice) or in person. Who knows how they’ll respond? You’ll have done your part though…….and that’s all anyone can really do. I know I’d want to know if it were my child…….and I’d be grateful to whoever told me of such. JMO Josie

Response:

right off hand, I’d have to say that it’s generally a bad idea to hang with a substance abuser. We tend to become like our associates.  It would be a good lesson if you brought this up, and discussed the situation in so many words. It’s not so much that you dislike the kid, but more that people like this boy are inappropriate companions. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Ok guys, I have been stewing on this for a while, but not posting because of >the different attitudes to alcohol, so don’t start an anti alcohol flame. >To clarify in NZ, underage drinking in a limited way in a safe environment >is accepted.  You don’t have to agree with this, just believe me that the >culture here is different to the US. >Now to the problem >When my son had his party in early feb, there was an alcohol limit of 3 >beers each (15 and 16 yr olds) remember this is NZ.  There was one child who >brought a bottle of wine, for his own consumption.  This teenager also kept >sneeking off to have a smoke, just tobacco. >I was a bit worried about this kid and mentioned it to one of the parents >who has older children.  This boy according to her daughter has been seen at >other parties, of mostly older kids, getting drunk, smoking dope etc. She >also said that she had tried to talk to the mother but been cut off mid >stream, and said in her opinion the parents are in denial.  I mentioned it >to the class teacher and suggested it would be good if they watched this >boy, that he was headed for trouble. >Since then, I have talked to a teenager that I get on with very well he is >17 going 18, and said he had seen this boy at parties, as high as a kite, >and there is even talk that he is using acid. >Now to the point.  I bumped into his mum recently in the gallery, and asked >if her son was going to an upcoming party.  Her response just about floored >me.  She said ohh I don’t know, he’s not much of a party goer.  Prefers to >stay at home.  It so nice having a teenager that is soooo good, and no >problem. >There was a friend of hers there, or I would have taken the opportunity to >tell her the truth, but just couldn’t bring myself to do that in front of >her friend. >So guys, I am really worried about this kid.  I am very fond of him, have >known him since he was 8, and the parents are nice people, just deluded. >What do you do.  This kid needs help, and his parents are in denial. >Annemarie

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ok guys, I have been stewing on this for a while, but not posting because > of > the different attitudes to alcohol, so don’t start an anti alcohol flame. > To clarify in NZ, underage drinking in a limited way in a safe environment > is accepted.  You don’t have to agree with this, just believe me that the > culture here is different to the US. > Now to the problem > When my son had his party in early feb, there was an alcohol limit of 3 > beers each (15 and 16 yr olds) remember this is NZ.  There was one child > who > brought a bottle of wine, for his own consumption.  This teenager also > kept > sneeking off to have a smoke, just tobacco. > I was a bit worried about this kid and mentioned it to one of the parents > who has older children.  This boy according to her daughter has been seen > at > other parties, of mostly older kids, getting drunk, smoking dope etc. She > also said that she had tried to talk to the mother but been cut off mid > stream, and said in her opinion the parents are in denial.  I mentioned it > to the class teacher and suggested it would be good if they watched this > boy, that he was headed for trouble. > Since then, I have talked to a teenager that I get on with very well he is > 17 going 18, and said he had seen this boy at parties, as high as a kite, > and there is even talk that he is using acid. > Now to the point.  I bumped into his mum recently in the gallery, and > asked > if her son was going to an upcoming party.  Her response just about > floored > me.  She said ohh I don’t know, he’s not much of a party goer.  Prefers to > stay at home.  It so nice having a teenager that is soooo good, and no > problem. > Hell, when your high as a kite, you are generally pretty cooperative and > mellow (albeit sometimes paranoid), so his mother’s clueless reaction is > pretty understandable. > There was a friend of hers there, or I would have taken the opportunity to > tell her the truth, but just couldn’t bring myself to do that in front of > her friend. > So guys, I am really worried about this kid.  I am very fond of him, have > known him since he was 8, and the parents are nice people, just deluded. > What do you do.  This kid needs help, and his parents are in denial. > Annemarie > Denial is the nature of the beast and till you get past it, there is very > little to be done.  It is an extremely difficult position to be in. > When I was 16, my best friend’s dad came over and spoke to my parents about > his second-hand knowledge of knowing that  me and his daughter had been > getting high together.  The Parental Units were pretty quick to kick him out > the door.  A few weeks later my Dad found a notebook of mine in the back of > his car with my flourishing handwriting’s of ‘I am trippin’ sooooo hard’ > kind of thing.  Even that didn’t get him to clue in. > Sad to say that for the majority of users, they have to hit their own > personal bad place to even acknowledge that there is a problem and it’s > pretty much the same for parents of users as well.  My parent’s denial hit a > stand-still when I called them collect from Los Angeles to inform them of my > whereabouts.  Having their daughter 600 miles away in an extremely dangerous > town, at 16 years of age, was finally enough to get them to open their eyes. > The good news is that when I had been clean for a year, I had a great party > to celebrate and the Dad that originally told my parents about me was > invited and appologized to. > If you are pretty confidant of your sources, I don’t see any harm sharing > your concerns with his parents.  It might cause friction but at least you > have planted a seed that there could be a problem that they need to face. > Planting seeds in this particular subject is about the only options we have > and we have to leave the germation of them to the person we gave ‘em to. > Hope that helps a little. > Sarah > Mom to Kalen (8) and Victoria (5 months)

Thanks Sarah, I guess I know I’m gonna have to do something, any ideas on how to go about it.  I’m sort of dreading this, yet feel I have to something. Annemarie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Smoked it to deal with folks like you Jack, when I was a kid….*S* Sarah

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hell, when your high as a kite, you are generally pretty cooperative and > mellow (albeit sometimes paranoid), so his mother’s clueless reaction is > pretty understandable. > How many marijuana abusers have you been around in your life?  They’re > irritable, cranky, rude, and obnoxious, especially when they’re NOT > high.  If you think being high makes you cooperative and mellow, head > for your nearest "alternative school" or juvenile detention facility, > I have some kids I want you to meet. > — Jack Tarkaan                                      Kalamazoo, Michigan > — NO UNSOLICITED E-MAIL AT THIS ADDRESS – Respect privacy – NO SPAM!!!!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I recently ran a substance abuse workshop in one of the local > school districts for parents of middle and high school kids and > this exact question came up. One of the other parents had this > suggestion which I thought was excellent. She said that if it > happened to her she would tell the other parent for a couple of > reasons. First, parents should stick together and even if the > parent is in denial, at least you have to try. The second reason > she’d tell the parent had to do with her own son. She wanted to > let him know that she worried about his friends and that even if > he was upset that she was "ratting his friend out" the message > would be that "I wouldn’t want your friend dead from an > overdose, and I would want another parent to tell me if it was > happening to you."  On a different note, Annemarie, If you know > it, I’m curious what the rate of alcohol abuse is in NZ compared > to US. Just wondering if the more lenient drinking policy is > better or worse, statistically > Susan > http://havinganotherbaby.com > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Alcohol.  I think it is getting better, certainly our drink driving statistics are going down very well.  I don’t really know how bad it is in the US so, really I can only comment on what is happening here.  Personally I believe that making alcohol a big bad thing that has to be hidden only makes it worse.  You know history has proved prohibition doesn’t work. Marijuana on the other hand worries me more.  There is a move to have it legalized here and I have a problem with that.  I think its all dandy and fine for adults, but for teenages,  who are probably the biggest users, it is not fine and dandy.  There have been many studies that link it with developmental problems, when teens use it. Complicated issue.  Thanks for the feedback. Annemarie

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ok guys, I have been stewing on this for a while, but not posting because of > the different attitudes to alcohol, so don’t start an anti alcohol flame. > To clarify in NZ, underage drinking in a limited way in a safe environment > is accepted.  You don’t have to agree with this, just believe me that the > culture here is different to the US. > Now to the problem > When my son had his party in early feb, there was an alcohol limit of 3 > beers each (15 and 16 yr olds) remember this is NZ.  There was one child who > brought a bottle of wine, for his own consumption.  This teenager also kept > sneeking off to have a smoke, just tobacco. > I was a bit worried about this kid and mentioned it to one of the parents > who has older children.  This boy according to her daughter has been seen at > other parties, of mostly older kids, getting drunk, smoking dope etc. She > also said that she had tried to talk to the mother but been cut off mid > stream, and said in her opinion the parents are in denial.  I mentioned it > to the class teacher and suggested it would be good if they watched this > boy, that he was headed for trouble. > Since then, I have talked to a teenager that I get on with very well he is > 17 going 18, and said he had seen this boy at parties, as high as a kite, > and there is even talk that he is using acid. > Now to the point.  I bumped into his mum recently in the gallery, and asked > if her son was going to an upcoming party.  Her response just about floored > me.  She said ohh I don’t know, he’s not much of a party goer.  Prefers to > stay at home.  It so nice having a teenager that is soooo good, and no > problem.

Hell, when your high as a kite, you are generally pretty cooperative and mellow (albeit sometimes paranoid), so his mother’s clueless reaction is pretty understandable. > There was a friend of hers there, or I would have taken the opportunity to > tell her the truth, but just couldn’t bring myself to do that in front of > her friend. > So guys, I am really worried about this kid.  I am very fond of him, have > known him since he was 8, and the parents are nice people, just deluded. > What do you do.  This kid needs help, and his parents are in denial. > Annemarie

Denial is the nature of the beast and till you get past it, there is very little to be done.  It is an extremely difficult position to be in. When I was 16, my best friend’s dad came over and spoke to my parents about his second-hand knowledge of knowing that  me and his daughter had been getting high together.  The Parental Units were pretty quick to kick him out the door.  A few weeks later my Dad found a notebook of mine in the back of his car with my flourishing handwriting’s of ‘I am trippin’ sooooo hard’ kind of thing.  Even that didn’t get him to clue in. Sad to say that for the majority of users, they have to hit their own personal bad place to even acknowledge that there is a problem and it’s pretty much the same for parents of users as well.  My parent’s denial hit a stand-still when I called them collect from Los Angeles to inform them of my whereabouts.  Having their daughter 600 miles away in an extremely dangerous town, at 16 years of age, was finally enough to get them to open their eyes. The good news is that when I had been clean for a year, I had a great party to celebrate and the Dad that originally told my parents about me was invited and appologized to. If you are pretty confidant of your sources, I don’t see any harm sharing your concerns with his parents.  It might cause friction but at least you have planted a seed that there could be a problem that they need to face. Planting seeds in this particular subject is about the only options we have and we have to leave the germation of them to the person we gave ‘em to. Hope that helps a little. Sarah Mom to Kalen (8) and Victoria (5 months)

Response:

Ok guys, I have been stewing on this for a while, but not posting because of the different attitudes to alcohol, so don’t start an anti alcohol flame. To clarify in NZ, underage drinking in a limited way in a safe environment is accepted.  You don’t have to agree with this, just believe me that the culture here is different to the US. Now to the problem When my son had his party in early feb, there was an alcohol limit of 3 beers each (15 and 16 yr olds) remember this is NZ.  There was one child who brought a bottle of wine, for his own consumption.  This teenager also kept sneeking off to have a smoke, just tobacco. I was a bit worried about this kid and mentioned it to one of the parents who has older children.  This boy according to her daughter has been seen at other parties, of mostly older kids, getting drunk, smoking dope etc. She also said that she had tried to talk to the mother but been cut off mid stream, and said in her opinion the parents are in denial.  I mentioned it to the class teacher and suggested it would be good if they watched this boy, that he was headed for trouble. Since then, I have talked to a teenager that I get on with very well he is 17 going 18, and said he had seen this boy at parties, as high as a kite, and there is even talk that he is using acid. Now to the point.  I bumped into his mum recently in the gallery, and asked if her son was going to an upcoming party.  Her response just about floored me.  She said ohh I don’t know, he’s not much of a party goer.  Prefers to stay at home.  It so nice having a teenager that is soooo good, and no problem. There was a friend of hers there, or I would have taken the opportunity to tell her the truth, but just couldn’t bring myself to do that in front of her friend. So guys, I am really worried about this kid.  I am very fond of him, have known him since he was 8, and the parents are nice people, just deluded. What do you do.  This kid needs help, and his parents are in denial. Annemarie

Response:

I recently ran a substance abuse workshop in one of the local school districts for parents of middle and high school kids and this exact question came up. One of the other parents had this suggestion which I thought was excellent. She said that if it happened to her she would tell the other parent for a couple of reasons. First, parents should stick together and even if the parent is in denial, at least you have to try. The second reason she’d tell the parent had to do with her own son. She wanted to let him know that she worried about his friends and that even if he was upset that she was "ratting his friend out" the message would be that "I wouldn’t want your friend dead from an overdose, and I would want another parent to tell me if it was happening to you."  On a different note, Annemarie, If you know it, I’m curious what the rate of alcohol abuse is in NZ compared to US. Just wondering if the more lenient drinking policy is better or worse, statistically Susan http://havinganotherbaby.com * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

> Hell, when your high as a kite, you are generally pretty cooperative and > mellow (albeit sometimes paranoid), so his mother’s clueless reaction is > pretty understandable.

How many marijuana abusers have you been around in your life?  They’re irritable, cranky, rude, and obnoxious, especially when they’re NOT high.  If you think being high makes you cooperative and mellow, head for your nearest "alternative school" or juvenile detention facility, I have some kids I want you to meet. — Jack Tarkaan                                      Kalamazoo, Michigan — NO UNSOLICITED E-MAIL AT THIS ADDRESS – Respect privacy – NO SPAM!!!!

Response:

I’m going to get some people mad at me, but I don’t think you have any good solutions. With only a year to go to 18, and a disgreement on how bad the problems are between divorced parents, you really can only ask for a way to push you son into becoming an independent adult.   A program like Outward Bound that focuses on individual responsibility and self-value might help.  If you cannot get you ex-wife AND your son to agree, then I would talk to a lawyer who deals with the Juvinal courts and see if there is a way to get the courts to order the "treatment" since you are willing to foot the bill.  If he doesn’t come out a success story at least he will know that you want him to become a better person, which may be worth something. Good Luck,    My kids haven’t reached that age, and I hope not to see that level of problem, but you never can tell.

Response:

Glenn – Your situation with your son is complicated by several factors:  your son’s age, his use of illegal substances, and his mother’s apparent support of his choices, and the sharp differences of opinion between you both.  I was actually quite surprised to hear that he is attending counseling after reading everything else.  That could be interpreted to mean that he understands that something is not quite right and that he needs help.  This could be your foot in the door for obtaining help, but it is not a big foot. So, *if* your son listens to you at all at this point, you might want to try talking him into participating in substance abuse counseling with possibly even a short residential setting [ie: 30 day program] for a full evaluation and intensive beginning of counsleing.  This may be available through the Juvenile Justice folks and you should talk with them about this.  If it is agreed that this would be a good course of action they could write it into his Disposition and it would become part of his Community Control which he must complete before his Juvenile Justice case closes. You mgiht also want to research availability of a program like Outward Bound.  This is a short program and might be effective with him in at least starting him on the turn around from what he is doing now.  This could also be written into the court orders from Juvenile Justice.  They should also know if such a program is available in your area. Now, if you really want to bite a bullet, family counseling with all three of you might be very helpful.  Granted, it would be potentially very difficult to get going if your ex if not responsive, but it *could* lead to the development of a united front between you two and deter him from splitting you more.  You may be able to find a counselor who will come into the home.  In my experience, in-home counselors usually get down to the real issues faster because people hide less of themselves at home.  You would probably want to talk your ex into using her home in order to increase chances that your son would attend. Your son’s age makes all of this more difficult.  I do not know California law, but I suspect that if he has more law violations he is running the risk of being dealt with as an adult by the legal system, now.  From what you describe, he has not changed his involvement in drugs, so this is not unlikley.  Further, he is so close to 18 that he can taste it.  The closer to 18 he gets, the less likely he is to regard parental rules and decisions as something he needs to comply with.  For this reason I suggest that you find the local Tough Love folks and attend a few of their meetings [at least] to get a hearing of their view points and interventions.  You might also want to attend an Al-Anon [spelling?] group for support and ideas dealing with the substance abuse by both your son and ex-spouse.  You could use support and a place to vent, most likely, and this could be an excellent place/group for that. You do not say how long you have been divorced or how long your son lived with you after the divorce and if he was exposed to in home substance abuse prior to the divorce.  If he lived with you for some time and was exposed to a supportive stable home environment for his early years he should have developed many pro-social skills that, in the long run, can pull him out of where he is at now.  There comes a point where we parents have to let go and hope that we taught our kids what they need and just stand back and watch [lovingly and ready to assist at their request] while they make many of the same/similar mistakes we made when we were younger.  It sounds like you really care about your son and want to give him more tools to become successful in this world.  Good luck.  I really hope things work out, but be prepared that things are probably going to be quite difficult for a while yet. Oh, yes, as to behavioral camps, other than Outward Bound I am most familiar with long term facilities like Eckerd Camp.  Most of those facilities do a great job with kids who display alot of the behaviors/needs you describe. They do best, however, with kids who are a bit younger and, in fact, many of them do not accept youths for admission once they are past their 17th birthday.  If you have found one that does, you may have found a gem, particularly if your son could potentially be allowed to stay after his 18th birthday if he has not completed the program.  Boot camps, on the other hand, are being closed all over the State of Florida [where I live] as generally unsuccessful. – Aula

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->How close to 18 is your son? > He will be 18 on September 2, 2000 >  What is his current diagnosis? > None.  In counseling but he is not "diseased" >  Where do you reside [country/state]? > Sacramento California > Is he at all open >to the idea/have you discussed with him? > Generally he is not open.  The concept has been aired ("Your’e not > taking me away from my friends."), but not duscussed with any detail. > No need to discuss until his parents have decide if it is an > appropriate course of action. >  What is his current school >performance/related issues? > Dreadful student.  Failing all classes, even his beloved guitar. > Disruptive, argumentative, disrespectful, suspensions, meetings, etc. >  Is he involved with the legal system yet? > Yes, recently cited for possession of 2-3 grams of marijuana causing > expulsion from school district.  Currently enrolled in an alternative > school program that he will not attend. >  What other interventions have you tried and what success/failures were noted and >why? > Complication of failure/punishment and success/reward is inconsistent > parenting.  Divorced, 50% custody.  Son will not live with me due to > expectations and rules.  Runs away to mother’s.  Mother has lied to me > and to police as to son’s whereabouts.  After three weeks of this > total bull**** son lives with mom fulltime. > Courts will not intervene due to custody being 50/50 and not defining > exactly which days where.  Courts will not accept set schedule without > mother’s approval.  She does not. > Mother is running interference for son.  This is why a neutral > environment seems to make some sense. > I have a number of years experience case managing severely emotionally >disturbed children both in the community and residential treatment settings >[including wilderness programs].  I have learned that all these factors [and >some others] impact on the efficacy of a wilderness program. > This is a very bright and good kid who has been making some really bad > lifestyle and personal decisions lately.  Any attempt to set > bounderies is thwarted by mother.  Son does not have curfew, is not > required to keep mother informed of whereabouts, is not required to go > to school, smokes pot on a daily basis in mother’s home (to my > knowledge she does not), is allowed any friend no matter the influence > (mother recently moved our son’s 19 year-old drug supplier into her > household). > In leiu of school, mother has son working two jobs and keeping much of > his income herself.  Gives him enough that he doesn’t complain.  Since > May about $1,500 is unaccounted for. > Yes, child protective services and her probation officer have been > informed (she is a conviced felon for welfare fraud).  Their response > is that the situation is not bad enough to act or until she or my son > are arrested they can do nothing. > There are two siblings age 13 and 10 that I am trying to get out of > the environment by negotiation or force of the courts. > Even if I want a camp program for my 17 year old son I will need > either her approval or the court to intervene.  The first is not > likely, the second is almost an impossibility. > I’m not cynical of the courts, I’m a realist and I’ve been there > before. > This isn’t an exercise in futility.  If the son suddenly says yes, > mother will not say no.

Response:

 To tell you the truth, the most definative thing about your message is that you and your ex are really into locking horns. You’re divorced, but your son lives with his mother. You seem to have NO power at all in this situation.  What should you do? Give up. He’s 17. He essentially does whatever he wants. He likes it. There is no one with the power to get him to change his ways. He’s 17, going on 35. Accept the fact that he has made a play for power and won.  How about accepting your son as a friend, and cease trying to inflict you will on him. You lost. You can’t do it.  If you’re sad about that, check into counselling for yourself.  You can still have a long, and rewarding relationship with your son. It’s just that he grew up faster than you expected. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->How close to 18 is your son? >He will be 18 on September 2, 2000 >  What is his current diagnosis? >None.  In counseling but he is not "diseased" >  Where do you reside [country/state]? >Sacramento California > Is he at all open >to the idea/have you discussed with him? >Generally he is not open.  The concept has been aired ("Your’e not >taking me away from my friends."), but not duscussed with any detail. >No need to discuss until his parents have decide if it is an >appropriate course of action. >  What is his current school >performance/related issues? >Dreadful student.  Failing all classes, even his beloved guitar. >Disruptive, argumentative, disrespectful, suspensions, meetings, etc. >  Is he involved with the legal system yet? >Yes, recently cited for possession of 2-3 grams of marijuana causing >expulsion from school district.  Currently enrolled in an alternative >school program that he will not attend. >  What other interventions have you tried and what success/failures were noted and >why? >Complication of failure/punishment and success/reward is inconsistent >parenting.  Divorced, 50% custody.  Son will not live with me due to >expectations and rules.  Runs away to mother’s.  Mother has lied to me >and to police as to son’s whereabouts.  After three weeks of this >total bull**** son lives with mom fulltime. >Courts will not intervene due to custody being 50/50 and not defining >exactly which days where.  Courts will not accept set schedule without >mother’s approval.  She does not. >Mother is running interference for son.  This is why a neutral >environment seems to make some sense. > I have a number of years experience case managing severely emotionally >disturbed children both in the community and residential treatment settings >[including wilderness programs].  I have learned that all these factors [and >some others] impact on the efficacy of a wilderness program. >This is a very bright and good kid who has been making some really bad >lifestyle and personal decisions lately.  Any attempt to set >bounderies is thwarted by mother.  Son does not have curfew, is not >required to keep mother informed of whereabouts, is not required to go >to school, smokes pot on a daily basis in mother’s home (to my >knowledge she does not), is allowed any friend no matter the influence >(mother recently moved our son’s 19 year-old drug supplier into her >household). >In leiu of school, mother has son working two jobs and keeping much of >his income herself.  Gives him enough that he doesn’t complain.  Since >May about $1,500 is unaccounted for. >Yes, child protective services and her probation officer have been >informed (she is a conviced felon for welfare fraud).  Their response >is that the situation is not bad enough to act or until she or my son >are arrested they can do nothing. >There are two siblings age 13 and 10 that I am trying to get out of >the environment by negotiation or force of the courts. >Even if I want a camp program for my 17 year old son I will need >either her approval or the court to intervene.  The first is not >likely, the second is almost an impossibility. >I’m not cynical of the courts, I’m a realist and I’ve been there >before. >This isn’t an exercise in futility.  If the son suddenly says yes, >mother will not say no.

Response:

>How close to 18 is your son?

He will be 18 on September 2, 2000 >  What is his current diagnosis?

None.  In counseling but he is not "diseased" >  Where do you reside [country/state]?

Sacramento California > Is he at all open >to the idea/have you discussed with him?

Generally he is not open.  The concept has been aired ("Your’e not taking me away from my friends."), but not duscussed with any detail. No need to discuss until his parents have decide if it is an appropriate course of action. >  What is his current school >performance/related issues?

Dreadful student.  Failing all classes, even his beloved guitar. Disruptive, argumentative, disrespectful, suspensions, meetings, etc. >  Is he involved with the legal system yet?

Yes, recently cited for possession of 2-3 grams of marijuana causing expulsion from school district.  Currently enrolled in an alternative school program that he will not attend. >  What other interventions have you tried and what success/failures were noted and >why?

Complication of failure/punishment and success/reward is inconsistent parenting.  Divorced, 50% custody.  Son will not live with me due to expectations and rules.  Runs away to mother’s.  Mother has lied to me and to police as to son’s whereabouts.  After three weeks of this total bull**** son lives with mom fulltime. Courts will not intervene due to custody being 50/50 and not defining exactly which days where.  Courts will not accept set schedule without mother’s approval.  She does not. Mother is running interference for son.  This is why a neutral environment seems to make some sense. > I have a number of years experience case managing severely emotionally >disturbed children both in the community and residential treatment settings >[including wilderness programs].  I have learned that all these factors [and >some others] impact on the efficacy of a wilderness program.

This is a very bright and good kid who has been making some really bad lifestyle and personal decisions lately.  Any attempt to set bounderies is thwarted by mother.  Son does not have curfew, is not required to keep mother informed of whereabouts, is not required to go to school, smokes pot on a daily basis in mother’s home (to my knowledge she does not), is allowed any friend no matter the influence (mother recently moved our son’s 19 year-old drug supplier into her household). In leiu of school, mother has son working two jobs and keeping much of his income herself.  Gives him enough that he doesn’t complain.  Since May about $1,500 is unaccounted for. Yes, child protective services and her probation officer have been informed (she is a conviced felon for welfare fraud).  Their response is that the situation is not bad enough to act or until she or my son are arrested they can do nothing. There are two siblings age 13 and 10 that I am trying to get out of the environment by negotiation or force of the courts. Even if I want a camp program for my 17 year old son I will need either her approval or the court to intervene.  The first is not likely, the second is almost an impossibility. I’m not cynical of the courts, I’m a realist and I’ve been there before. This isn’t an exercise in futility.  If the son suddenly says yes, mother will not say no.

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I share custody of my 17 year old son who has become defiant, truant, and using marijuana on a daily basis.  I am considering utilizing one of those behavior modification wilderness camps.  I’m not so keen on the boot-camps, but have found some of the programs interesting. This is a lot of money and we are not able to afford such costs without serious financial setback.  Our kid is worth it, but only if this is going to work. Thoughts, experiences, recommendations? Glenn Hagele Council for Refractive Surgery Quality Assurance http://www.usaeyes.org

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I don’t have a lot of time tonight to type at you about this but let me quickly raise a few thoughts.  How close to 18 is your son?  What is his current diagnosis?  Where do you reside [country/state]?  Is he at all open to the idea/have you discussed with him?  What is his current school performance/related issues?  Is he involved with the legal system yet?  What other interventions have you tried and what success/failures were noted and why?  I have a number of years experience case managing severely emotionally disturbed children both in the community and residential treatment settings [including wilderness programs].  I have learned that all these factors [and some others] impact on the efficacy of a wilderness program. – Aula

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I share custody of my 17 year old son who has become defiant, truant, > and using marijuana on a daily basis.  I am considering utilizing one > of those behavior modification wilderness camps.  I’m not so keen on > the boot-camps, but have found some of the programs interesting. > This is a lot of money and we are not able to afford such costs > without serious financial setback.  Our kid is worth it, but only if > this is going to work. > Thoughts, experiences, recommendations? > Glenn Hagele > Council for Refractive Surgery Quality Assurance > http://www.usaeyes.org

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Hi Denise, No – what you have explained is perfectly normal.  I hear it all the time from other parents.  It’s so exhausting being a single parent, but we all need our breaks…even if we miss them. Annie Lewis Single Parent Support Group http://www.SingleParents.net

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This is so true!  I feel guilty when I want to just get away, but I feel so good and feel like I am a much better mom if I can get a little time to myself.  Glad I am not the only one!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Denise, > No – what you have explained is perfectly normal.  I hear it all the time > from other parents.  It’s so exhausting being a single parent, but we all > need our breaks…even if we miss them. > Annie Lewis > Single Parent Support Group > http://www.SingleParents.net

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Am I the only one who sometimes wants a break from being mom *then* when my son goes to his father’s and spends the night I miss my son like nobody’s business.  I can only imagine what it’s gonna be like when he’s grown and no longer living at home.  I’m not going to create an invisible barrier around him.  I don’t want my son to be an adult in his 30s who’s still living at home.  I want him to be independent and one day tell me he’s ready to head out on his own, but I can only imagine how tough that is.  Not looking forward to it. Denise http://www.chistell.com

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By the time you have survived his teen years, I’m sure you will be more than ready to let go.  Are children are only our gifts for a little while and then they move on with our blessings.  The key is to make the most of the years we have with them, and to prepare them, little by little, to make it on their own. Margaret

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Am I the only one who sometimes wants a break from being mom *then* >when my son goes to his father’s and spends the night I miss my son >like nobody’s business.  I can only imagine what it’s gonna be like when >he’s grown and no longer living at home.  I’m not going to create an >invisible barrier around him.  I don’t want my son to be an adult in his >30s who’s still living at home.  I want him to be independent and one day >tell me he’s ready to head out on his own, but I can only imagine how >tough that is.  Not looking forward to it. >Denise >http://www.chistell.com

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Are the teen years *that* bad??  I never thought we were that bad with my dad, but then again . . . he might tell a different story. Denise http://www.chistell.com

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I thought that the reason God made teenagersso difficult was so that you would be ready to let them go and happy to see your life settle down to a dull roar again. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > By the time you have survived his teen years, I’m sure you will be > more than ready to let go.  Are children are only our gifts for a > little while and then they move on with our blessings.  The key is to > make the most of the years we have with them, and to prepare them, > little by little, to make it on their own. > Margaret

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Michelle, I’m glad to hear he’s doing ok.  :-) Kendra Proud to be "Outlandish"! http://www.crosswinds.net/~outlandish http://www.crosswinds.net/~graphicsbykendra (under construction) *Something to consider* Amatures built the ark, professionals built the Titanic

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> I just read all of your posts this morning.  I’m so glad your little guy is > going to be ok.  My Katie and I will keep you and your family in our > prayers. > Hugs! > Annie Lewis > Single Parent Support Group > http://www.SingleParents.net

I also just read this thread this morning and I send you guys all of our best wishes and love.  I am so happy for you that Chance is going to be okay.  Take care (and don’t forget yourself Michelle!), — Leonie Lawson Co-Creator of Maia Shea (19/11/96) and Casta Grace (9/8/98) dum vivimus, vivamus (while we live, let us live)

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So glad to hear it’s nothing serious etc Michelle, and he was only in one night, harrowing as that sounded.. at least you know there’s nothing terrible now.. Give yourselves a rest and plenty of hugs.. — Take Care, Kate (Scotland) Mom 2 Geran (Hallowe’en ‘97) Visit my website at http://x-stream.fortunecity.com/elmst/41 Nothing is bad for you, in moderation enough Before you buy.

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I just read all of your posts this morning.  I’m so glad your little guy is going to be ok.  My Katie and I will keep you and your family in our prayers. Hugs! Annie Lewis Single Parent Support Group http://www.SingleParents.net

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Michelle, All I can say is thank goodness!  I am so glad to hear that he is ok.  And look at the positive side of things.  Yes, the tests were horrible.  But now you know he is all right.  And the peace of mind that will give you is priceless.  That will make the next couple of weeks so much easier to get through.  Thank you so much for letting us all know how he is doing.  Give all of his hurts a kiss from me too.  Give all of your hurts a hug from me.  I know how hard it is to watch them go through needle sticks.  And I am so sorry you had to watch him go through worse than that.  I’m just so thankful that he is going to be fine!! **Hugs** Sharon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Thanks to all of you for keeping my family in your thoughts and prayers.  We > got released from the hospital this morning.  We only had to stay for  one > night.  Chance went through a lot yesterday, but is back to being normal today. >  He underwent two MRI’s yesterday instead of the CAT scan.  They had to sedate > him for both.  The first one showed an abnormality, but the one completed two > hours later and several prayers later revealed to be normal.  The also did a > lumbar puncture while he was sedated for the second time.  The kept him on IV > therapy for the duration and ended up with four major needle sticks.  I wish it > could have been done to myself.  It was so hard watching my little guy go > through this.  Finally, the results…..no brain swelling and no really serious > stuff like they had thought.  They found he is having migraines from a > combination of the recent meningitis and from the lumbar punctures.  They are > also waiting for the results of his PPD test.  We are just going to treat the > onsets with Tylenol and Codeine.  He is to get lots of rest and hopefully be > fully recovered within 2-3 weeks.  Of course we have to go back to the doctor > in a week for a follow-up and to see if the fevers are staying down.  He > continues to carry a low grade fever.  Thanks for all your support and caring. > You don’t know how much it means!! > Michelle…mommy of 3

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Oh Michelle, how awful.. Please let us know how the wee mite gets on etc.. Take care, our thoughts etc are with you and yours Kate (Scotland) Mom 2 Geran (Hallowe’en ‘97) Visit my website at http://x-stream.fortunecity.com/elmst/41 Before you buy.

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Thanks to all of you for keeping my family in your thoughts and prayers.  We got released from the hospital this morning.  We only had to stay for  one night.  Chance went through a lot yesterday, but is back to being normal today.  He underwent two MRI’s yesterday instead of the CAT scan.  They had to sedate him for both.  The first one showed an abnormality, but the one completed two hours later and several prayers later revealed to be normal.  The also did a lumbar puncture while he was sedated for the second time.  The kept him on IV therapy for the duration and ended up with four major needle sticks.  I wish it could have been done to myself.  It was so hard watching my little guy go through this.  Finally, the results…..no brain swelling and no really serious stuff like they had thought.  They found he is having migraines from a combination of the recent meningitis and from the lumbar punctures.  They are also waiting for the results of his PPD test.  We are just going to treat the onsets with Tylenol and Codeine.  He is to get lots of rest and hopefully be fully recovered within 2-3 weeks.  Of course we have to go back to the doctor in a week for a follow-up and to see if the fevers are staying down.  He continues to carry a low grade fever.  Thanks for all your support and caring. You don’t know how much it means!! Michelle…mommy of 3

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I will be having good thoughts for you…. Cathy "To handle yourself, use your head…To handle others, use your heart!" http://hometown.aol.com/cathlynnnn/myhomepage/index.html

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Sending you strength and thinking about you and your son.  I hope everything turns out for the best. Jenn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I just wanted to please ask that everyone keep my 18 month old son in your >thoughts and prayers today.  I posted a couple of weeks ago that he was >hospitalized for meningitis….well, he has screamed every since.  He is very >unhappy and can’t sleep.  They think he may have swelling of the brain and will >be undergoing a CAT scan today.  Please keep us in mind as this is very hard to >take.  I will keep everyone up to date as we find out the problem. >Thanks >Michelle…mommy of 3

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My thoughts are with you.  I hope he is ok.  Good luck. Dorothy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I just wanted to please ask that everyone keep my 18 month old son in your >thoughts and prayers today.  I posted a couple of weeks ago that he was >hospitalized for meningitis….well, he has screamed every since.  He is very >unhappy and can’t sleep.  They think he may have swelling of the brain and will >be undergoing a CAT scan today.  Please keep us in mind as this is very hard to >take.  I will keep everyone up to date as we find out the problem. >Thanks >Michelle…mommy of 3

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Oh my oh my oh my..Michelle I missed your original post. I had no idea, how awful. Well with all these wonderful people praying for you you gotta know he is going to pull through this !Ditto for me on the thoughts & prayers. ginny — Grub*67 "Some people think we put that we put our life on hold to raise a child but we know that to hold a child is life"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I just wanted to please ask that everyone keep my 18 month old son in your > thoughts and prayers today.  I posted a couple of weeks ago that he was > hospitalized for meningitis….well, he has screamed every since.  He is very > unhappy and can’t sleep.  They think he may have swelling of the brain and will > be undergoing a CAT scan today.  Please keep us in mind as this is very hard to > take.  I will keep everyone up to date as we find out the problem. > Thanks > Michelle…mommy of 3

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my thoughts and prayers are with you and your son I hope everything goes well. Cally – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I just wanted to please ask that everyone keep my 18 month old son in your > thoughts and prayers today.  I posted a couple of weeks ago that he was > hospitalized for meningitis….well, he has screamed every since.  He is very > unhappy and can’t sleep.  They think he may have swelling of the brain and will > be undergoing a CAT scan today.  Please keep us in mind as this is very hard to > take.  I will keep everyone up to date as we find out the problem. > Thanks > Michelle…mommy of 3

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I just wanted to please ask that everyone keep my 18 month old son in your thoughts and prayers today.  I posted a couple of weeks ago that he was hospitalized for meningitis….well, he has screamed every since.  He is very unhappy and can’t sleep.  They think he may have swelling of the brain and will be undergoing a CAT scan today.  Please keep us in mind as this is very hard to take.  I will keep everyone up to date as we find out the problem. Thanks Michelle…mommy of 3

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My thoughts are with you and your family.  Please keep us posted on how he is doing. Catherine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I just wanted to please ask that everyone keep my 18 month old son in your > thoughts and prayers today.  I posted a couple of weeks ago that he was > hospitalized for meningitis….well, he has screamed every since.  He is very > unhappy and can’t sleep.  They think he may have swelling of the brain and will > be undergoing a CAT scan today.  Please keep us in mind as this is very hard to > take.  I will keep everyone up to date as we find out the problem. > Thanks > Michelle…mommy of 3

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Oh Michelle, I will be thinking good thoughts and saying a prayer for him.  And for you too.  I so hope that it all turns out to be ok.  I wish I could give you a real hug, I know you need all of them you can get.  Give yourself a squeeze for me and know that I will be hoping for the best for both of you.  Let us know what’s going on when you can.  A message on here just can’t convey how much I feel about what you are going through.  I hope it does let you know that I care and am concerned for both of you. My best, Sharon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I just wanted to please ask that everyone keep my 18 month old son in your > thoughts and prayers today.  I posted a couple of weeks ago that he was > hospitalized for meningitis….well, he has screamed every since.  He is very > unhappy and can’t sleep.  They think he may have swelling of the brain and will > be undergoing a CAT scan today.  Please keep us in mind as this is very hard to > take.  I will keep everyone up to date as we find out the problem. > Thanks > Michelle…mommy of 3

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Michelle, I’ll be thinking of you and your son today and saying a prayer! Missie Mom to Devon Raine- aka "baby squirt"

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(SquatNcat) writes: >I just wanted to please ask that everyone keep my 18 month old son in your >thoughts and prayers today.  I posted a couple of weeks ago that he was >hospitalized for meningitis….well, he has screamed every since.  He is very >unhappy and can’t sleep.  They think he may have swelling of the brain and >will >be undergoing a CAT scan today.  Please keep us in mind as this is very hard >to >take.  I will keep everyone up to date as we find out the problem.

know what happens. I’m sure all will go well. Josie–Mommy to Sarah-(10), Lynne-(6), and Parker-(4) By the way, the name is Dieu Vous Garde Never take life too seriously…nobody ever gets out of it alive anyway.

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Michelle, many thoughts and prayers going your way. Mainmom to Tara (13) Joseph (4) Sierra (3)

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Another prayer being sent up for you and your lil’ guy.  PLEASE tell us what happens, we’re concerned! Cynthia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I just wanted to please ask that everyone keep my 18 month old son in your > thoughts and prayers today.  I posted a couple of weeks ago that he was > hospitalized for meningitis….well, he has screamed every since.  He is very > unhappy and can’t sleep.  They think he may have swelling of the brain and will > be undergoing a CAT scan today.  Please keep us in mind as this is very hard to > take.  I will keep everyone up to date as we find out the problem. > Thanks > Michelle…mommy of 3

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You may want to check out a website www.reikilinks.com (if that isn’t right, try .net).  Reiki is a way of sending healing energy to anyone who needs it. It is the same energy that acupuncturists are manipulating with needles. They call it "Chi".  Anyway, many Reiki masters will tithe a distant healing if requested on an occasional basis.  I myself am a Reiki master and would be happy to do this for you, if you want.  My only stipulation is that I have your permission.  At any rate, I will keep you in my prayers.  Let me know if you would like me to send the Reiki.  If you just want more info on reiki first, type reiki into the search engine–there are a ton of sites. Good luck, and blessings to you. — *Love and Blessings,                      * *Kathy Karlander                             * *Be sure to check my website at    * *http://www.spiritemerging.com     *

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I just wanted to please ask that everyone keep my 18 month old son in your > thoughts and prayers today.  I posted a couple of weeks ago that he was > hospitalized for meningitis….well, he has screamed every since.  He is very > unhappy and can’t sleep.  They think he may have swelling of the brain and will > be undergoing a CAT scan today.  Please keep us in mind as this is very hard to > take.  I will keep everyone up to date as we find out the problem. > Thanks > Michelle…mommy of 3

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My thoughts and prayers are with you all the time since I read your message earlier. I have just come back from a play group in our church hall and we all prayed for you and for your family and especially your little boy. I hope so much that everything will be ok. Katherine Mother of Mark (18 months) in Klikenny Ireland

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Thinking of you and all your family. Be strong. Best wishes, Shoshana (and Ruth 2)

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>Reiki is a way of sending healing energy to anyone who needs it. >It is the same energy that acupuncturists are manipulating with needles. >They call it "Chi".  Anyway, many Reiki masters will tithe a distant healing >if requested on an occasional basis.  I myself am a Reiki master and would >be happy to do this for you, if you want.

If I need any healing in the future, I’ll keep this in mind. If you send it via e-mail, will it cause any side effects? Josie–Mommy to Sarah-(10), Lynne-(6), and Parker-(4) By the way, the name is Dieu Vous Garde Never take life too seriously…nobody ever gets out of it alive anyway.

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>Dorothy brainstormed this idea: > perhaps some snappy comebacks of his own would help? >Try brainstorming with him about things he can say when people tease him >and let him role play and practice with you so that he gains confidence in >his>own powers of repartee.

I think this is among the best of your replies here.  To let him change his name because other kids do not like it (I am no stranger to being teased, I was a ORANGE carrot-top in my younger days, and I was teased mercilessly by my peers up until jr high school) IMHO might be giving him the wrong message. Help him to find ways to be comfortable with who he is, not change things about himself to please other people.  I can see a dizzying cycle starting with a little problem of being teased.  NOW, even as an adult, I have giggled at some of the names I have heard along the way … one of the local proctologists’ name is Dr. Butz. Can’t help but wonder how he chose his profession.   I think helping him to come up with the snappy comebacks is a good idea.  Might should give it a try before you do anything so drastic, anyway. Krystal If evolution really works, then why do mothers have only two arms?       Eat the "treat" in my address to e-mail me.

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Let him know that thats the way the world is.  My name is Art and I was teased for as long as I can remember.  You might find some books that show kids ignoring those that tease.  (The Harry Potter books are good, also Madame L’Ingle’s).  I just learned to be proud of my name, my wife and I gave it to my son, I’m sure he will have problems too. If they dont tease you about your name they will tease you about something else.  If you give in you give them power over you, so dont give in, just smile it makes them wonder what you are thinking. Good Luck, Art stay at home dad for Arthur (5mo and counting). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am not sure that legally changing his name will make much of a difference, > but if his dad is willing to allow it, than perhaps it will help your son > feel that he > is solving this problem a bit on his own. > It sounds to me though as if he needs some techniques to help him cope with > the teasing – perhaps some snappy comebacks of his own would help? > Try brainstorming with him about things he can say when people tease him > and let him role play and practice with you so that he gains confidence in > his > own powers of repartee. > Dorothy >question for the group. >my kids have their father’s last name.  it is a name that is very easy to > make >fun of.  today my son confided in me that he has been teased about it since > he >was very small and is really getting tired of it.  i didn’t know it was > that >much of an issue. at this point, he is very frustrated and has asked if he >could change his name to my last name, which is more generic.  i have told > him >that all the kids already know him by the other name anyway, so it probably >wouldn’t do any good anyway as they already tease him.  we did tell him > about >how there are just awful people out there that like to tease just for the > joy >of teasing and getting a reaction. of course as adults, we know that, but > to a >12 year old boy who is getting teased it means nothing at all. >what type of answers would you other parents give?  i don’t even know if it > is >legal for him to change his last name. he goes by his dad’s name. >a concerned mom who doesn’t know what to do…. >:o/ >~Jilmari~ >If we teach our children not to hate, >maybe we will get there someday. >What are your children learning from you today?

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question for the group. my kids have their father’s last name.  it is a name that is very easy to make fun of.  today my son confided in me that he has been teased about it since he was very small and is really getting tired of it.  i didn’t know it was that much of an issue. at this point, he is very frustrated and has asked if he could change his name to my last name, which is more generic.  i have told him that all the kids already know him by the other name anyway, so it probably wouldn’t do any good anyway as they already tease him.  we did tell him about how there are just awful people out there that like to tease just for the joy of teasing and getting a reaction. of course as adults, we know that, but to a 12 year old boy who is getting teased it means nothing at all. what type of answers would you other parents give?  i don’t even know if it is legal for him to change his last name. he goes by his dad’s name. a concerned mom who doesn’t know what to do…. / ~Jilmari~ If we teach our children not to hate, maybe we will get there someday. What are your children learning from you today?

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Here’s a thought–to avoid the possibility of conflict between you and the father, why not let him change his name to something that is similar to his current last name, but more mainstream?  (I have a cousin married to a guy whose last name is "Butt."  He could, for example, have changed his name to "Booth" under my suggestion.)

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If you already have a family with two last names, it seems fair for your son to ask this question.  I would suggest both parents and son talk out the issues and consider the implications.   In the couple cases I have heard directly about, the teachers and school administrators were willing to let a kid use any reasonable name except in the official school records.  That might allow a time to "try out" the new name for a while and see if your son still wants the change after a time (say 6 months).  You will have to pre-check with the school to make sure they know this is a parent supported name change. For the legal aspects — you and your husband can get a lawyer to file a name change in local court and it should be no major hassle.  We adopted and included name changes as part of the adoption filing.  We also have mom and dad using different last names and have allowed this discusssion.  Don’t forget Social Security, they kept telling the IRS our kids were not real at tax time, making delays and extra phone calls necessary. Good Luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >my kids have their father’s last name.  it is a name that is very easy to make >fun of.  today my son … asked if he >could change his name to my last name, which is more generic.  

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I am not sure that legally changing his name will make much of a difference, but if his dad is willing to allow it, than perhaps it will help your son feel that he is solving this problem a bit on his own. It sounds to me though as if he needs some techniques to help him cope with the teasing – perhaps some snappy comebacks of his own would help? Try brainstorming with him about things he can say when people tease him and let him role play and practice with you so that he gains confidence in his own powers of repartee. Dorothy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->question for the group. >my kids have their father’s last name.  it is a name that is very easy to make >fun of.  today my son confided in me that he has been teased about it since he >was very small and is really getting tired of it.  i didn’t know it was that >much of an issue. at this point, he is very frustrated and has asked if he >could change his name to my last name, which is more generic.  i have told him >that all the kids already know him by the other name anyway, so it probably >wouldn’t do any good anyway as they already tease him.  we did tell him about >how there are just awful people out there that like to tease just for the joy >of teasing and getting a reaction. of course as adults, we know that, but to a >12 year old boy who is getting teased it means nothing at all. >what type of answers would you other parents give?  i don’t even know if it is >legal for him to change his last name. he goes by his dad’s name. >a concerned mom who doesn’t know what to do…. >:o/ >~Jilmari~ >If we teach our children not to hate, >maybe we will get there someday. >What are your children learning from you today?

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Ask his father if you can change it. My stepson came to us with a simular problem. My husband has a long hard to correctly pronounce German last name. My stepson is highly sensitive and easily tempered. He’d get really pissed off and sometimes violent when someone mispronounced it. So when he asked if he could change it we obliged after making sure that that was the reason and it wasn’t disownership of this side of the family. BTW if his father doesn’t agree (I’m hoping he’ll be understanding, he was probably picked on at one point about it too), still do it, just not legally. Karla

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> These boys are very close.  His friend is a very good > kid and I do > like his parents. I don’t think the parents are bad parents at all, > they just > have a different lifestyle.  I see them often and have never seen > them even > buzzing.  They treat my son great.  I just need reassurance that I am > making a > good choice.  Considering we have a lot of alcoholics and recovering > alcoholics > in the family, I don’t want my son to think it is a necessary thing > to have to > "wind down".  Maybe someone can give me their experience or input.

What has your son said about the beer? Does he even notice? You are right, it is a different lifestyle, and it’s not yours. THis is a good opportunity to discuss the choices a person  makes when growing up, and the reason WHY you’ve decided to NOT drink. I agree with you that 1 beer doesn’t make a bad Mom, but have you thought that maybe the only time this Mom gets to sit, read the paper, catch up with the kids etc is while she’s having this beer. This might be the only "treat" she gets all day long. My parents had a drink and cheese and crackers before dinner every night. When we were younger, we would go play and wait for dinner. As we got older and could carry on an intelligent converstaion we would join them, drinking juice. Older still, Dad would mix us a drink too. This was an excellent chance for them to catch up on their day and on ours. Mom and Dad are both retired, and they still do this. Talk to your son. Try to see this Mom thru his eyes. ChrisOD Mom-to-Mom http://www.cluein.com/cluein/public_summary.html?cid=R1556 A messageboard run by a Mom, for other Moms all about being Moms

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While I don’t agree with drinking at all, the sad fact is that it is perfectly legal for a parent or guardian to give their child alcohol.  As long as it is purchased by the parent or guardian, and consumed in their presence…well per our police department, there is absolutely nothing illegal with it.  HOWEVER, I don’t understand why anyone would want to encourage drinking in their child.  Just MO. Single Parent Support Group http://www.SingleParents.net

Response:

> While I don’t agree with drinking at all, the sad fact is that it is > perfectly legal for a parent or guardian to give their child alcohol.  As > long as it is purchased by the parent or guardian, and consumed in their > presence…well per our police department, there is absolutely nothing > illegal with it.  HOWEVER, I don’t understand why anyone would want to > encourage drinking in their child.  Just MO. > Single Parent Support Group > http://www.SingleParents.net

I don’t think children should be given alcohol — except perhaps communion wine or as part of religious ceremonies like Seder — but older teens who learn to drink moderately e.g. a glass of wine at dinner on occasion when the family is having it are less likely to develop neurotic problems with alcohol or alcholism.  Moderate use of alcohol is healthful and appropriate — the idea that ‘all drinking is bad’ when applied to other people is uptight and  prudish.       [one always has the option of making personal choice for oneself -- and of course children of alcoholics are sensible to avoid alchohol for lots of reasons]   We ought to be able to convey to young people a sensible view of alcohol without encouraging abuse just as we ought to be able to convey to them the desirability of sex without encouraging promiscuity. The kids who are bingeing and barfing and dying of alcohol poisoning at college or in the back seat or in the woods are often the children of people who have made alchol a secret, magic, sinful treat.  Kids who see their parents use alcohol in moderation are not likely to equate barfing up a six pack with adulthood.

Response:

> I am curious as to if I am doing the right thing.  I thought I was, but some of > my family questions my choice.  My sons best friend invites him over quite > often.  They have been best friends for about 2 years.  He as well, stays at > our house too.  The problem is that my husband and I do not drink around or in > front of our children.  We aren’t drinkers in the first place, but we don’t > allow adults over who would bring alcohol either if our kids are here.  If we > have a drink, which is rare, we are out at a restaurant by

ourselves.  The main – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> reason is that alcoholism runs pretty rampid on my side of the family as well > as my husbands.  We’ve both seen what it does to families and personally, I did > enough drinking when I was younger…don’t really hve a desire anymore.  My > sons parents do drink though.  The mom of this boy did tell me that she had a > beer or two in the evenings.  She let me know she didn’t get drunk, but did > wind down to that.  She let me know this before my son spent his first night > there.  Since then, I have let him stay several times.  He always has a good > time, but when I question him about the beer casually, he says she only has > two.    I was fine with that.  I had told her never to drive with him after she > had the first drink.  Lately he has been going over to this boys house after > school on Wednesdays.  I always pick him up because it is in the evenings and I > know she will have had a beer.  When I went to pick him up though, she actually > was drinking a beer in front of me.  Don’t get me wrong, I am by far not a > prude.  I was very wild growing up, but I do not want to put those desires  in > my kids heads as being okay.  Am I over reacting?  I know everyone has a right > to their own ways in their home, but my family thought I should slow down the > friendship.  These boys are very close.  His friend is a very good kid and I do > like his parents. I don’t think the parents are bad parents at all, they just > have a different lifestyle.  I see them often and have never seen them even > buzzing.  They treat my son great.  I just need reassurance that I am making a > good choice.  Considering we have a lot of alcoholics and recovering alcoholics > in the family, I don’t want my son to think it is a necessary thing to have to > "wind down".  Maybe someone can give me their experience or input. > Michelle…mommy of 3

-Michelle, I grew up in a household where there was very little alcohol consumed. A glass of wine occassionally.  The only talk about drugs and alcohol I got was from my friends.  I couldn’t wait to try what I had zero knowledge of.  The only thing my parents told me about drinking and drugs is DON’T.  I totally respect your views, but with my kids I like them to see that yeah, mom and dad can have a beer responsibly.  But thats just my view.  take care.- Before you buy.

Response:

>Sorry to have rambled, especially since I have entered this thread very late. >There is a difference between having a drink or two, and becoming rip-roaring >drunk to the point of not being capable of caring for the children. >Krystal

I love when you ramble. Especially when I agree with you. Josie–Mommy to Sarah-(10), Lynne-(6), and Parker-(4) By the way, the name is Dieu Vous Garde Never take life too seriously…nobody ever gets out of it alive anyway.

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My mother had a rule for herself while we were growing up: She was adamant on not letting us kids see her do anything that she would not want to see us doing. (teaching through example) While I do not have a particular with parents drinking (with-in reason, of course) in front of their kids, I would not allow those responsible for my kids to drink to the point of being drunk.  We all know that an intoxicated individual is not capable of attending to the emergencies that could arise with children in the house. I have a friend who very recently left her husband.  Her daughter is a good friend of my daughter, and the husband still lives close by.  A few weeks ago, the kids went back to the dad’s house to stay the night with him.   The father (dumbass) chose the first night he got to see his kids in an entire week, to envite his buddies over and have  a  party.  There were three kids he was responsible for ages, 3, 6 & 7.  He had three other adult men in the house all drinking.  The father himself was also intoxicated. The kids were up until Well past 1AM (when I went to bed, I peeked out the window, and they were still outside jumping on the trampoline, with the 4 adult men still drinking).  Emily’s friend, Kelly said that she fell asleep on the couch and her Dad woke her up and told her she wasn’t gonna sleep during their party.   One of the charming guests of her fathers has a habbit of exposing himself to whoever is around when he drinks.  And he did to the kids that night.  I babysat the kids the following day, so the kids told me most of this themselves.  Their stories scared Emily and she says she never wants to go to Kelley’s house again. Especially the sotry of the gentle man who "pulled down his pants and his underware in front of the kids"  This BTW, opened up a conversation between my daughter and myself about how this is wrong, and if it ever happens to her she needs to tell Mommy or Daddy. There were a gross series of bad judgement calls on the part of the (dumbass) father.  Most of which I think he could have more effectively handled if he were sober.  Like asking his charming friend to LEAVE. Sorry to have rambled, especially since I have entered this thread very late. There is a difference between having a drink or two, and becoming rip-roaring drunk to the point of not being capable of caring for the children. Krystal If evolution really works, then why do mothers have only two arms?       Eat the "treat" in my address to e-mail me.

Response:

> I wouldn’t give young kids alchol with meals — but older teens are better off > learning to drink responsibly at home — than binging on weekends at college > or whatever which is the other option for most of them.  Teaching kids good > judgment about legal issues is also part of the package.  Surely no one > thinks that it makes a lot of sense to have alchol use illegal for people old > enough to marry, vote and serve in the military.

If you are of legal drinking age–and it doesn’t sound like you are– and you are serving alcohol to your teen and/or his friends, you are breaking the law and will have to pay the penalty as specified in your state. The highest percentage of drunk driving accidents comes from drivers in the 16-19 age bracket. If you provide booze for teens and they go out and hurt or kill someone while they are driving drunk, you are legally responsible. It doesn’t matter if they can "marry, vote and serve in the military." Statistics prove that they aren’t ready to drink and the law enforces that. Avril Before you buy.

Response:

 i can totally relate to what you are saying. I grew up with a father who drank and I know how horrible a life it is. I worry because my kids do not see the real affects it can have on a family that they will think it is OK to drink. Two of my grandparents died from drinking and my husband’s has alot of drinkers on his side. The odds are against my kids being social drinkers. If you want to keep you kids away from people who drink then you need to do what is best for your family. We stayed at my mother in laws condo on vacation recently and she has alot of liquor there. My son went up to her and said you know you are going to die because you drink that stuff. He at age 6 believes it is a drug. My husband I guess trying not to have his mother embarrassed said oh liquor won’t hurt you. Now we got into a really big fight. I can’t help his mother is an alcoholic but if my son wants to have those believes which I approve of well then he had no right to tell him he was wrong. barb mom to Meghan 8, Joey 6 and Tommy 3.

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Where I live, it is against the law for anyone under the age of 21 to drink or for any adult to supply a drink for anyone under the age of 21. In light of that, I don’t feel it’s a good idea to start off a 12 yr old child with wine at dinner time. The absence of alcohol around the house won’t make children want to try drinking anymore than the absence of guns or illegal drugs will make them try shooting guns or heroin. Some people simply don’t drink. Not because of "drinking problems," but just because they don’t drink.  My husband’s family and my family were not drinkers and the absence of alcohol didn’t drive me or my husband to drink. Now, we raise our family without any alcohol in the home, as do our siblings. And none of our teens are drinkers. I’m sure your dad was a wonderful man and I admire how you want to model this aspect of your life after your father’s way of raising you. Yet you were drinking pints of beer at 14 and drinking heavily on weekends at 16. I see that as a huge problem. That’s precisely the situation I desire to keep my kids away from. And it happened in your household where you were exposed to alcohol. I have to believe, therefore, that the opposite is true. If we give our kids alcohol as teens, besides breaking the law, we are teaching them that they can’t have fun without booze–and that’s simply not true. Avril – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If you make an issue of it and don’t have it around the house at all, then > your children will wonder what’s so important about this ‘alcohol stuff and > if they don’t try it at home with you in moderation, (a glass of wine with a > large meal from about twelve years old I think is reasonable) then they will > try it elsewhere, and that means you won’t be able to monitor it. > I see your concern with this situation and *totally* agree with you not > allowing your friend to drive. There’s a big difference between having a > drink in the evening to relax and having an alcohol related problem. The > trouble is it’s a gradual difference and there’s a lot of grey before white > turns to black.  You didn’t mention your sons age.  Until about twelve I’d > tell him alcohol is an adults drink, after that let them have it with you > (i.e. in moderation) and let the subject fall into discussions (don’t bring > it up yourself) – that way you’re not making a big deal of it. > When I was younger – from 11ish I’d have an occasional (you might even say > rare) glass of wine with a big Sunday meal with my parents.  At 13 I > sometimes had a pint in the pub next to the train station if I had a long > wait for a train/bus home.  At 14 at weekends I used to run about 12 miles > with my dad (well I was usually well ahead) to the cricket club he was > treasurer at.  We’d both have a pint or two when we got there and we’d have > a ride back when mum arrived.  At 16/17 for about 6 months I drank a lot > once a week.  That stopped suddenly when I passed my driving test and my > favourite drink in the pub became blackcurrent & lemonade.  Now I might have > a can or two infront of the tele on a Monday night. (Monday’s effectively > the end of my week)  I don’t hide it from my children, but to them it’s an > adult’s drink that children cant have. Other people might think I have a > problem, when I’m in the supermarket with my 3 children and one of them > shouts at the top of their voice "BEER BEER THAT’S DADDY’S BEER" > My general point is you can guide them, but don’t hide it from them, if you > do you’re making it an issue and that isn’t good. > Everything above is of course IMO > Haircut 100 – proud SAHD father of 3 wonderful girls. > I sure > I am curious as to if I am doing the right thing.  I thought I was, but > some of > my family questions my choice.  My sons best friend invites him over quite > often.  They have been best friends for about 2 years.  He as well, stays > at > our house too.  The problem is that my husband and I do not drink around > or in > front of our children.  We aren’t drinkers in the first place, but we > don’t > allow adults over who would bring alcohol either if our kids are here.  If > we > have a drink, which is rare, we are out at a restaurant by ourselves.  The > main > reason is that alcoholism runs pretty rampid on my side of the family as > well > as my husbands.  We’ve both seen what it does to families and personally, > I did > enough drinking when I was younger…don’t really hve a desire anymore. > My > sons parents do drink though.  The mom of this boy did tell me that she > had a > beer or two in the evenings.  She let me know she didn’t get drunk, but > did > wind down to that.  She let me know this before my son spent his first > night > there.  Since then, I have let him stay several times.  He always has a > good > time, but when I question him about the beer casually, he says she only > has > two.    I was fine with that.  I had told her never to drive with him > after she > had the first drink.  Lately he has been going over to this boys house > after > school on Wednesdays.  I always pick him up because it is in the evenings > and I > know she will have had a beer.  When I went to pick him up though, she > actually > was drinking a beer in front of me.  Don’t get me wrong, I am by far not a > prude.  I was very wild growing up, but I do not want to put those desires > in > my kids heads as being okay.  Am I over reacting?  I know everyone has a > right > to their own ways in their home, but my family thought I should slow down > the > friendship.  These boys are very close.  His friend is a very good kid and > I do > like his parents. I don’t think the parents are bad parents at all, they > just > have a different lifestyle.  I see them often and have never seen them > even > buzzing.  They treat my son great.  I just need reassurance that I am > making a > good choice.  Considering we have a lot of alcoholics and recovering > alcoholics > in the family, I don’t want my son to think it is a necessary thing to > have to > "wind down".  Maybe someone can give me their experience or input. > Michelle…mommy of 3

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Where I live, it is against the law for anyone under the age of 21 to > drink or for any adult to supply a drink for anyone under the age of > 21. In light of that, I don’t feel it’s a good idea to start off a 12 > yr old child with wine at dinner time. > The absence of alcohol around the house won’t make children want to try > drinking anymore than the absence of guns or illegal drugs will make > them try shooting guns or heroin. > Some people simply don’t drink. Not because of "drinking problems," but > just because they don’t drink.  My husband’s family and my family were > not drinkers and the absence of alcohol didn’t drive me or my husband > to drink. Now, we raise our family without any alcohol in the home, as > do our siblings. And none of our teens are drinkers. > I’m sure your dad was a wonderful man and I admire how you want to > model this aspect of your life after your father’s way of raising you. > Yet you were drinking pints of beer at 14 and drinking heavily on > weekends at 16. I see that as a huge problem. That’s precisely the > situation I desire to keep my kids away from. And it happened in your > household where you were exposed to alcohol. > I have to believe, therefore, that the opposite is true. If we give our > kids alcohol as teens, besides breaking the law, we are teaching them > that they can’t have fun without booze–and that’s simply not true. > Avril

In a home where alcohol is used responsibly kids get a good model of drinking whether they drink with the family or not.  [it is ludicrous to suggest that a teen who has a glass of wine with a family dinner is being taught that you 'can't have fun without alcohol.' ]  a child who grows up in a home without any alcohol is not getting the chance to see responsible drinking BUT he is also seeing good role models.  A child who lives in a home where parents drink — but sneak around hiding it and making a big fuss about their kid ever seeing an adult drink ARE teaching their kids that alcohol is very desirable and encouraging negative drinking behavior. There is lots of evidence that kids who grow up with alcohol as a minor but accepted part of dining and culture are LESS likely to abuse alcohol than kids who grow up in homes where alcohol is abused or never used. I wouldn’t give young kids alchol with meals — but older teens are better off learning to drink responsibly at home — than binging on weekends at college or whatever which is the other option for most of them.  Teaching kids good judgment about legal issues is also part of the package.  Surely no one thinks that it makes a lot of sense to have alchol use illegal for people old enough to marry, vote and serve in the military. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If you make an issue of it and don’t have it around the house at all, > then > your children will wonder what’s so important about this ‘alcohol > stuff and > if they don’t try it at home with you in moderation, (a glass of wine > with a > large meal from about twelve years old I think is reasonable) then > they will > try it elsewhere, and that means you won’t be able to monitor it. > I see your concern with this situation and *totally* agree with you > not > allowing your friend to drive. There’s a big difference between > having a > drink in the evening to relax and having an alcohol related problem. > The > trouble is it’s a gradual difference and there’s a lot of grey before > white > turns to black.  You didn’t mention your sons age.  Until about > twelve I’d > tell him alcohol is an adults drink, after that let them have it with > you > (i.e. in moderation) and let the subject fall into discussions (don’t > bring > it up yourself) – that way you’re not making a big deal of it. > When I was younger – from 11ish I’d have an occasional (you might > even say > rare) glass of wine with a big Sunday meal with my parents.  At 13 I > sometimes had a pint in the pub next to the train station if I had a > long > wait for a train/bus home.  At 14 at weekends I used to run about 12 > miles > with my dad (well I was usually well ahead) to the cricket club he was > treasurer at.  We’d both have a pint or two when we got there and > we’d have > a ride back when mum arrived.  At 16/17 for about 6 months I drank a > lot > once a week.  That stopped suddenly when I passed my driving test and > my > favourite drink in the pub became blackcurrent & lemonade.  Now I > might have > a can or two infront of the tele on a Monday night. (Monday’s > effectively > the end of my week)  I don’t hide it from my children, but to them > it’s an > adult’s drink that children cant have. Other people might think I > have a > problem, when I’m in the supermarket with my 3 children and one of > them > shouts at the top of their voice "BEER BEER THAT’S DADDY’S BEER" > My general point is you can guide them, but don’t hide it from them, > if you > do you’re making it an issue and that isn’t good. > Everything above is of course IMO > Haircut 100 – proud SAHD father of 3 wonderful girls. > I sure > > I am curious as to if I am doing the right thing.  I thought I was, > but > some of > > my family questions my choice.  My sons best friend invites him > over quite > > often.  They have been best friends for about 2 years.  He as well, > stays > at > > our house too.  The problem is that my husband and I do not drink > around > or in > > front of our children.  We aren’t drinkers in the first place, but > we > don’t > > allow adults over who would bring alcohol either if our kids are > here.  If > we > > have a drink, which is rare, we are out at a restaurant by > ourselves.  The > main > > reason is that alcoholism runs pretty rampid on my side of the > family as > well > > as my husbands.  We’ve both seen what it does to families and > personally, > I did > > enough drinking when I was younger…don’t really hve a desire > anymore. > My > > sons parents do drink though.  The mom of this boy did tell me that > she > had a > > beer or two in the evenings.  She let me know she didn’t get drunk, > but > did > > wind down to that.  She let me know this before my son spent his > first > night > > there.  Since then, I have let him stay several times.  He always > has a > good > > time, but when I question him about the beer casually, he says she > only > has > > two.    I was fine with that.  I had told her never to drive with > him > after she > > had the first drink.  Lately he has been going over to this boys > house > after > > school on Wednesdays.  I always pick him up because it is in the > evenings > and I > > know she will have had a beer.  When I went to pick him up though, > she > actually > > was drinking a beer in front of me.  Don’t get me wrong, I am by > far not a > > prude.  I was very wild growing up, but I do not want to put those > desires > in > > my kids heads as being okay.  Am I over reacting?  I know everyone > has a > right > > to their own ways in their home, but my family thought I should > slow down > the > > friendship.  These boys are very close.  His friend is a very good > kid and > I do > > like his parents. I don’t think the parents are bad parents at all, > they > just > > have a different lifestyle.  I see them often and have never seen > them > even > > buzzing.  They treat my son great.  I just need reassurance that I > am > making a > > good choice.  Considering we have a lot of alcoholics and recovering > alcoholics > > in the family, I don’t want my son to think it is a necessary thing > to > have to > > "wind down".  Maybe someone can give me their experience or input. > > Michelle…mommy of 3 > Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

She let me know this before my son spent his first night  there.  Since then, I have let him stay several times.  He always has a good time, but Sounds to me that she is a responsible adult.  As long as he is having a good time and is safe cool.    When I went to pick him up though, she actually  was drinking a beer in front of me.  Don’t get me wrong, I am by far not a prude.  I was very wild growing up, but I do not want to put those desires in my kids heads as being okay.  Am I over reacting? I think you are over reacting a little.  BUT that is just what I think.  doesn’t make me right or wrong.  Nothing wrong with her drinking on front of you.  It was her home.  The desires to have a drink don’t come just from seeing an adult having a drink.  As an adult it is okay to have a drink and that may be what you need to explain should he ask or question about drinking.   These boys are very close.  His friend is a very good kid and I do  like his parents. I don’t think the parents are bad parents at all, they just have a different lifestyle.  I see them often and have never seen them even buzzing.  They treat my son great. This is something you should be focusing on.  The boys have a good friendship going and needs to be nurtured to grow.  I will telly ou right now you will run into a whole bunch of people you will like but don’t live or think the way you do.  As long as they treat him right, don’t drink and drive, and you like them stop worrying. My husband is a recovering and I keep some beer in the back fridge for when some friends might come over.  I am personally not a drinker but some of them like to have a beer once in a while.  My kids know what drinking is and they know you can get hurt by it.  They also know you need to be an adult to do it.  Same with smoking.  You need to use what you feel comfotable with but remember you can’t keep him locked up from all the things you dont’ like in this world. Good Luck  I just need reassurance that I am – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->making a > good choice.  Considering we have a lot of alcoholics and recovering >alcoholics > in the family, I don’t want my son to think it is a necessary thing to >have to > "wind down".  Maybe someone can give me their experience or input. > Michelle…mommy of 3

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am curious as to if I am doing the right thing.  I thought I was, but some of > my family questions my choice.  My sons best friend invites him over quite > often.  They have been best friends for about 2 years.  He as well, stays at > our house too.  The problem is that my husband and I do not drink around or in > front of our children.  We aren’t drinkers in the first place, but we don’t > allow adults over who would bring alcohol either if our kids are here.  If we > have a drink, which is rare, we are out at a restaurant by ourselves.  The main > reason is that alcoholism runs pretty rampid on my side of the family as well > as my husbands.  We’ve both seen what it does to families and personally, I did > enough drinking when I was younger…don’t really hve a desire anymore.  My > sons parents do drink though.  The mom of this boy did tell me that she had a > beer or two in the evenings.  She let me know she didn’t get drunk, but did > wind down to that.  She let me know this before my son spent his first night > there.  Since then, I have let him stay several times.  He always has a good > time, but when I question him about the beer casually, he says she only has > two.    I was fine with that.  I had told her never to drive with him after she > had the first drink.  Lately he has been going over to this boys house after > school on Wednesdays.  I always pick him up because it is in the evenings and I > know she will have had a beer.  When I went to pick him up though, she actually > was drinking a beer in front of me.  Don’t get me wrong, I am by far not a > prude.  I was very wild growing up, but I do not want to put those desires  in > my kids heads as being okay.  Am I over reacting?  I know everyone has a right > to their own ways in their home, but my family thought I should slow down the > friendship.  These boys are very close.  His friend is a very good kid and I do > like his parents. I don’t think the parents are bad parents at all, they just > have a different lifestyle.  I see them often and have never seen them even > buzzing.  They treat my son great.  I just need reassurance that I am making a > good choice.  Considering we have a lot of alcoholics and recovering alcoholics > in the family, I don’t want my son to think it is a necessary thing to have to > "wind down".  Maybe someone can give me their experience or input. > Michelle…mommy of 3

You speak of not wanting to put the desires of drinking into your kids heads as okay but I think you have to tell them something about it as it is a part of society, like it or not.  When something becomes taboo this only makes kids more curious.  You need to find a middle line in which you can safely explain the difference between social and heavy drinkers.  Knowledge is a powerful tool, on any subject. Personally I also relax to a drink.  I do this about twice a week and so does Kieron.  We do this in front of the kids and have no qualms about doing so.  As a result they don’t even bat an eyelid when we pour ourselves a drink as it is a rather boring event in our household for them. Concerning you not allowing guests to bring alcohol to your home, that is your prerogative and nobody’s business but your own.  You have every right to say no to alcohol and this is not over-reacting. Concerning this lady in question socially drinking in front of you and your son, I think you are slightly over-reacting.  It sounds like she is very responsible and just as you are allowed your habits in your home, so too is she in hers.  The bottom line is that she doesn’t drive after more than one beer and she treats your son very well, and her son is your son’s best friend. If it ever changes from this then you have to look again at the situation but as it stands it sounds fairly harmless.  You have some very real issues to consider when tackling this problem but IMHO, family history or not, the drinking topic is best explained and not avoided and hidden. You said that the mother explained to you that her social drinking was her way of winding down.  Is there any reason why this should be the explanation given to your son as well?  Try telling him that she simply likes the taste but only a little bit at a time (the two beers), and he may learn about drinking in moderation instead of drinking to relax. — Leonie Lawson Co-Creator of Maia Shea (19/11/96) and Casta Grace (9/8/98) dum vivimus, vivamus (while we live, let us live)

Response:

>If you drink why not drink ‘in front of your son?’  The idea that drink >is something to be sneaky about is part of the whole culture of teen >binge drinking.  Families who have wine with dinner and generally model >responsible adult use of alcohol are LESS likely to have problem teen >drinkers than families that hide their social drinking and make a big >deal out of it.   >A person who drinks to excess is not an appropriate caretaker of a child — >even temporarily — but if we are talking about having a beer on a hot >afternoon — well I’d rather my kids saw having A beer as a normal social >think — rather than the usual teen intro to drinking which is ‘guzzle till >you puke’.

I agree here. This ‘binge drinking’ is really in the news quite abit nowdays. I think that the more you expose your children to,( in a responsible manner only, of course) the better prepared for life they’ll be in the long run. Josie–mommy to Sarah (10), Lynne (6), and Parker (4) by the way, the name is: Dieu Vous Garde "I have measured out my life with coffee spoons."….T.S.Eliot

Response:

You seam to have a lot of opinions already, here’s my tuppence worth. If you don’t make an issue of it, your children won’t think anything of it, they’re there to play. If you make an issue of it and don’t have it around the house at all, then your children will wonder what’s so important about this ‘alcohol stuff and if they don’t try it at home with you in moderation, (a glass of wine with a large meal from about twelve years old I think is reasonable) then they will try it elsewhere, and that means you won’t be able to monitor it. I see your concern with this situation and *totally* agree with you not allowing your friend to drive. There’s a big difference between having a drink in the evening to relax and having an alcohol related problem.  The trouble is it’s a gradual difference and there’s a lot of grey before white turns to black.  You didn’t mention your sons age.  Until about twelve I’d tell him alcohol is an adults drink, after that let them have it with you (i.e. in moderation) and let the subject fall into discussions (don’t bring it up yourself) – that way you’re not making a big deal of it. When I was younger – from 11ish I’d have an occasional (you might even say rare) glass of wine with a big Sunday meal with my parents.  At 13 I sometimes had a pint in the pub next to the train station if I had a long wait for a train/bus home.  At 14 at weekends I used to run about 12 miles with my dad (well I was usually well ahead) to the cricket club he was treasurer at.  We’d both have a pint or two when we got there and we’d have a ride back when mum arrived.  At 16/17 for about 6 months I drank a lot once a week.  That stopped suddenly when I passed my driving test and my favourite drink in the pub became blackcurrent & lemonade.  Now I might have a can or two infront of the tele on a Monday night. (Monday’s effectively the end of my week)  I don’t hide it from my children, but to them it’s an adult’s drink that children cant have. Other people might think I have a problem, when I’m in the supermarket with my 3 children and one of them shouts at the top of their voice "BEER BEER THAT’S DADDY’S BEER" My general point is you can guide them, but don’t hide it from them, if you do you’re making it an issue and that isn’t good. Everything above is of course IMO Haircut 100 – proud SAHD father of 3 wonderful girls. I sure

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am curious as to if I am doing the right thing.  I thought I was, but some of > my family questions my choice.  My sons best friend invites him over quite > often.  They have been best friends for about 2 years.  He as well, stays at > our house too.  The problem is that my husband and I do not drink around or in > front of our children.  We aren’t drinkers in the first place, but we don’t > allow adults over who would bring alcohol either if our kids are here.  If we > have a drink, which is rare, we are out at a restaurant by ourselves.  The main > reason is that alcoholism runs pretty rampid on my side of the family as well > as my husbands.  We’ve both seen what it does to families and personally, I did > enough drinking when I was younger…don’t really hve a desire anymore. My > sons parents do drink though.  The mom of this boy did tell me that she had a > beer or two in the evenings.  She let me know she didn’t get drunk, but did > wind down to that.  She let me know this before my son spent his first night > there.  Since then, I have let him stay several times.  He always has a good > time, but when I question him about the beer casually, he says she only has > two.    I was fine with that.  I had told her never to drive with him after she > had the first drink.  Lately he has been going over to this boys house after > school on Wednesdays.  I always pick him up because it is in the evenings and I > know she will have had a beer.  When I went to pick him up though, she actually > was drinking a beer in front of me.  Don’t get me wrong, I am by far not a > prude.  I was very wild growing up, but I do not want to put those desires in > my kids heads as being okay.  Am I over reacting?  I know everyone has a right > to their own ways in their home, but my family thought I should slow down the > friendship.  These boys are very close.  His friend is a very good kid and I do > like his parents. I don’t think the parents are bad parents at all, they just > have a different lifestyle.  I see them often and have never seen them even > buzzing.  They treat my son great.  I just need reassurance that I am making a > good choice.  Considering we have a lot of alcoholics and recovering alcoholics > in the family, I don’t want my son to think it is a necessary thing to have to > "wind down".  Maybe someone can give me their experience or input. > Michelle…mommy of 3

Response:

I think that hiding the drinking would be even worse, or not acknowledging the situation would make it difficult for the child. I think that taliking with your son would be very important, especially so if there is alcoholism in your family. The sooner you talk about it the better. Explain the drinking and ask your child what they think about the situation. Just stay involved. Remember when parents hide things from childeren the kids generally have a great desire to become interested in these things. Anything from Christmas presents to drinking and so forth. Good Luck Estlin

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I haven’t been put in that situation yet because my son is only 2, so I > don’t know for sure how I’d react.  But, my gut reaction is that I > would not let me son stay at a home where the caretaker(s) is drinking. > My husband and I don’t really drink other than an occassional glass of > wine if we are out to dinner.  We made it a point never to drink in > front of our son even if we were comfortably at home and weren’t > leaving.  The only exception is family get-togethers where wine/beer is > not uncommon.  But either my husband or I drinks only soda during those > get-togethers and we are fortunate to have a family where nobody abuses > alcohol, 1 or 2 driks is all. > I basically live by the theory that if I don’t think something is in > the best interest of my son (like drinking in front of him), I > certainly don’t let other people do it. So, I guess what I’m trying to > say is that your son can still have fun with his friend without staying > over at their home where the caretaker is drinking.  1 or 2 beers > affects some people far more than others and only a small amount of > alcohol can affect judgement.  If it were me, I would have the boy stay > over at our home instead.  Just my thoughts…. > -Treelo

If you drink why not drink ‘in front of your son?’  The idea that drink is something to be sneaky about is part of the whole culture of teen binge drinking.  Families who have wine with dinner and generally model responsible adult use of alcohol are LESS likely to have problem teen drinkers than families that hide their social drinking and make a big deal out of it.   A person who drinks to excess is not an appropriate caretaker of a child — even temporarily — but if we are talking about having a beer on a hot afternoon — well I’d rather my kids saw having A beer as a normal social think — rather than the usual teen intro to drinking which is ‘guzzle till you puke’.

Response:

G,day Michelle (Congrats on you new job btw ) Here is my 2 cents worth; I socially drink,( my hubbie rarely). My mom is in A.A ( 20yrs sober)My step-mom who raised me was actively drinking. I also have friends in A.A. When people are over who are in A.A we never have alcohol in the house, nor do we bring it theirs. For myself, some weekends I love to curl up to a good movie w/ my DH, a bag of chips &  1 or 2 *Hard Mikes Lemonade* ( I LOVE the taste).We do not drink to get drunk.  I was at a cottage this summer & occasionally split a cooler during the day w/ a friend. I really don’t give it a second thought. It is not an issue for me to have a drink infront of my kids. Your concerns for your child in that home environment are totally legit, I raised my eyebrows as I read ..’a couple of beers  to unwind for the evening’. I immediately thought, " I do a lot of things to unwind; like go on the ng, or workout , swim etc. but not drink each night!" I can not judge how ever, this is your call.  Do what you feel comfortable w/. I agree w/ Lynn & Aula. It is wiser to teach are kids how to think not what to think & to make the best choices for themselves b/c it is the right thing to do! (That they will benefit from.) I know of this family ,( for about 10 yrs now). The mom has a glass of wine every night w/ dinner. It is tradition & in their culture.They are a lovely & healthy family~no alcoholism.  It is good to hear other peoples perspective on this topic, it never occurred to me that some might have an issue w/ drinking at all. Grub*67 (remove *no-spam* when replying) "Some people think we put that we put our life on hold to raise a child but we know that to hold a child is life"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am curious as to if I am doing the right thing.  I thought I was, but some of > my family questions my choice.  My sons best friend invites him over quite > often.  They have been best friends for about 2 years.  He as well, stays at > our house too.  The problem is that my husband and I do not drink around or in > front of our children.  We aren’t drinkers in the first place, but we don’t > allow adults over who would bring alcohol either if our kids are here.  If we > have a drink, which is rare, we are out at a restaurant by ourselves.  The main > reason is that alcoholism runs pretty rampid on my side of the family as well > as my husbands.  We’ve both seen what it does to families and personally, I did > enough drinking when I was younger…don’t really hve a desire anymore. My > sons parents do drink though.  The mom of this boy did tell me that she had a > beer or two in the evenings.  She let me know she didn’t get drunk, but did > wind down to that.  She let me know this before my son spent his first night > there.  Since then, I have let him stay several times.  He always has a good > time, but when I question him about the beer casually, he says she only has > two.    I was fine with that.  I had told her never to drive with him after she > had the first drink.  Lately he has been going over to this boys house after > school on Wednesdays.  I always pick him up because it is in the evenings and I > know she will have had a beer.  When I went to pick him up though, she actually > was drinking a beer in front of me.  Don’t get me wrong, I am by far not a > prude.  I was very wild growing up, but I do not want to put those desires in > my kids heads as being okay.  Am I over reacting?  I know everyone has a right > to their own ways in their home, but my family thought I should slow down the > friendship.  These boys are very close.  His friend is a very good kid and I do > like his parents. I don’t think the parents are bad parents at all, they just > have a different lifestyle.  I see them often and have never seen them even > buzzing.  They treat my son great.  I just need reassurance that I am making a > good choice.  Considering we have a lot of alcoholics and recovering alcoholics > in the family, I don’t want my son to think it is a necessary thing to have to > "wind down".  Maybe someone can give me their experience or input. > Michelle…mommy of 3

Response:

I haven’t been put in that situation yet because my son is only 2, so I don’t know for sure how I’d react.  But, my gut reaction is that I would not let me son stay at a home where the caretaker(s) is drinking. My husband and I don’t really drink other than an occassional glass of wine if we are out to dinner.  We made it a point never to drink in front of our son even if we were comfortably at home and weren’t leaving.  The only exception is family get-togethers where wine/beer is not uncommon.  But either my husband or I drinks only soda during those get-togethers and we are fortunate to have a family where nobody abuses alcohol, 1 or 2 driks is all. I basically live by the theory that if I don’t think something is in the best interest of my son (like drinking in front of him), I certainly don’t let other people do it. So, I guess what I’m trying to say is that your son can still have fun with his friend without staying over at their home where the caretaker is drinking.  1 or 2 beers affects some people far more than others and only a small amount of alcohol can affect judgement.  If it were me, I would have the boy stay over at our home instead.  Just my thoughts…. -Treelo Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

People are going to drink in front of kids, both their own and other peoples. I can understand why the drinking would bother you since I don’t drink and tend to avoid having my kids around people that do. I think though, that it might actually end up being a good idea for your son to be around these people since they only drink in moderation. He will have them to use as an example of responsible drinking habits. It will also give you a good opportunity to explain the difference between being a drinker and being a drunk and the importance of knowing when you’ve had enough.

Response:

I have to agree with Lynn here.  I grew up in a house where there was no alcohol [my mother poured some expensive Christmas gifts from my father's boss down the kitchen sink more than once] and I was not exposed to any sort of alcohol consumption at all.  When I left for college I got roaring drunk the first night out and for several more nights over several more years there-after.  I believe that a good reason for this was that I had never been exposed to moderate, well-controlled social drinking [i.e.:  wine with dinner] and that I was simply told that drinking was bad for me.  I did not become an alcoholic but I sure was immature in my handling of drink for several years.  I am now married to a wonderful man who is, coincidentally, a recovered alcoholic [nearly 20 years now].  He has an extensive family history of alcoholism so we do not have any sort of the stuff in the house, which is fine with me.  This does mean, however, that we are going to have to carefully educate our son so that he, hopefully, avoids both his father’s disease and my mistakes of younger days. In short, IMHO, I think that a balanced exposure to alcohol to demystify it and provide appropriate role models for moderate consumption, combined with education of the risks of improper consumption and the disease factor, probably gives our children the best chance to approach their own experiences with the stuff successfully.  But, as I said, this is only my opinion and we have a 4 year old, not a 24 year old, so I don’t know how we will do with application/results yet. 8-0 Aula

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> People are going to drink in front of kids, both their own and other > peoples. I can understand why the drinking would bother you since I don’t > drink and tend to avoid having my kids around people that do. I think > though, that it might actually end up being a good idea for your son to be > around these people since they only drink in moderation. He will have them > to use as an example of responsible drinking habits. It will also give you a > good opportunity to explain the difference between being a drinker and being > a drunk and the importance of knowing when you’ve had enough.

Response:

I think you are over-reacting because of your family history (and be advised, dh and I both have alcoholic fathers so I know where you’re coming from). Your children see you drink once in a long while (as do mine).  You can keep a close eye on the situation and you know the signs.  You can discuss it with your son. This is all to the good and no need to get any more hyped up about it, I think. –Janet Elliot, Hanna, Connor  (10/21/96)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am curious as to if I am doing the right thing.  I thought I was, but some of > my family questions my choice.  My sons best friend invites him over quite > often.  They have been best friends for about 2 years.  He as well, stays at > our house too.  The problem is that my husband and I do not drink around or in > front of our children.  We aren’t drinkers in the first place, but we don’t > allow adults over who would bring alcohol either if our kids are here.  If we > have a drink, which is rare, we are out at a restaurant by ourselves.  The main > reason is that alcoholism runs pretty rampid on my side of the family as well > as my husbands.  We’ve both seen what it does to families and personally, I did > enough drinking when I was younger…don’t really hve a desire anymore. My > sons parents do drink though.  The mom of this boy did tell me that she had a > beer or two in the evenings.  She let me know she didn’t get drunk, but did > wind down to that.  She let me know this before my son spent his first night > there.  Since then, I have let him stay several times.  He always has a good > time, but when I question him about the beer casually, he says she only has > two.    I was fine with that.  I had told her never to drive with him after she > had the first drink.  Lately he has been going over to this boys house after > school on Wednesdays.  I always pick him up because it is in the evenings and I > know she will have had a beer.  When I went to pick him up though, she actually > was drinking a beer in front of me.  Don’t get me wrong, I am by far not a > prude.  I was very wild growing up, but I do not want to put those desires in > my kids heads as being okay.  Am I over reacting?  I know everyone has a right > to their own ways in their home, but my family thought I should slow down the > friendship.  These boys are very close.  His friend is a very good kid and I do > like his parents. I don’t think the parents are bad parents at all, they just > have a different lifestyle.  I see them often and have never seen them even > buzzing.  They treat my son great.  I just need reassurance that I am making a > good choice.  Considering we have a lot of alcoholics and recovering alcoholics > in the family, I don’t want my son to think it is a necessary thing to have to > "wind down".  Maybe someone can give me their experience or input. > Michelle…mommy of 3

Response:

Michelle, How close are you to the other boy’s mom?  Would you feel comfortable talking with her about your family history?  Or do you think that would cause difficulties between the two of you or her and your son?  It sounds like you really like the woman and you like the relationship your son has with her boy.  But I know how this can be a "big thing" to some.  My grandfather (who passed away 6 months before I was born) was an alcoholic.  That is candy coating it really.  He was a mean drunk mostly.  (Some of the stories I have been told are enough to make your hair stand on end.)  My mother after growing up in that household and seeing what drinking did to her father vowed never to drink. She hasn’t yet and she will be 70 in January. :-}  This sort of thing would bother her to the point that she would never have allowed me to go to my friend’s house if the parents were drinking beer.  I am glad you still allow your son to be friends with the person he wants to be best buds with.  But I can understand how this would be something that bothers you.  I don’t think you are overreacting.  We all have "hot buttons," so to speak and this one is yours.   I know that the schools here start drug education in Kindergarten.  And they include cigarettes and alcohol in the discussions.  Is it the same there?  My daughter is always telling DH when she sees him smoking how bad it is for him, that he is using a drug, etc.  And she asks me too about alcohol.  We have a good friend who is like the mother of your son’s friend.  He will have a beer or two in the evening to unwind after work.  Anna asks me why he does that.  I just tell her that some adults do that.  It isn’t something kids can have under any circumstances.  And that everyone is different.  Just like some people really like hot peppers (something she hates.)  Not everyone has to like them or eat them and some people can’t eat them because they make them sick.  Alcohol is the same way.  And I tell her too that some things like alcohol are ok if they are only taken in moderation.  She understands that some people consume too much and that is where the problem is.  That’s enough knowledge for a 7 year old I think.   So maybe too you might think about talking to your son about it all.  You can explain addiction to him in terms that he would understand.  I relate it to a disease.  (My mother is a diet controlled diabetic.  So I have talked with my daughter about sometimes people’s bodies can’t handle the poisons in alcohol or other drugs (and that is what it is to the body) the way Grandma’s body can’t handle sugar.  But that they want it anyway.  Just like Grandma would love to have a caramel ice cream sundae but can’t.  She understood all of that.) Given your family history, I think it would be a good idea to talk with your son at length about it all.  Try to be casual, but remember to be honest.  This is something you have to get a jump start on.  It seems like kids are starting into all of that younger and younger every year. (Or, Lord forbid, am I just getting older????  :})  I hope some of what I said helps.  At least, understand that I get where you are coming from.   And I don’t think you are being a whacky mom.   Hang in there. Sharon

Response:

Difficult one here, although I would think that as you say, you’ve drunk a bit and had problems with family members you’d know the signs etc if the drink was being overdone in front of the kids.. You seem happy enough and are sensible enough not to let her drive etc so unless it becomes bad you could probably just leave things as they are.. My parents had the odd one in front of me and included me in a glass of table wine from around 12 when they were having some (which wasn’t that often) this was quite a good way I thought because it meant that I didn’t think alchohol was particularly interesting or exciting so never really went to extremes on it..  Don’t drink much or often now and DH doesn’t drink at all.. (family probs put him off, plus he’s usually driving so he decided just to stop) Have fun, Kate (Scotland) Mom 2 Geran (Hallowe’en ‘97) Visit my website at http://x-stream.fortunecity.com/elmst/41 Nothing is bad for you, in moderation enough.. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I don’t let my children around anyone who is drinking. Alcoholism runs in my side of the family (which I just found out my 17 year old brother has a problem with it), and there are a few relatives I grew up not knowing b/c they were always drunk. I resent them now for not caring enough to be decent for their own grandchild, and now they are missing out on their great grandchildren (my children). Anyway, I would not leave my child in the care of anyone who has been drinking at all. Not even myself. I drink maybe 3-4 times a year, and that’s when we’re lucky enough to have an all-night sitter. Drinking can easily get out of hand, and she may drink more when your son isn’t looking. IMO only, no judgements. Marie www.freeyellow.com/members6/mommydowis/index.htm

>I am curious as to if I am doing the right thing.  I

thought I was, but some of >my family questions my choice.  My sons best friend

invites him over quite >often.  They have been best friends for about 2 years.

He as well, stays at >our house too.  The problem is that my husband and I

do not drink around or in >front of our children.  We aren’t drinkers in the

first place, but we don’t >allow adults over who would bring alcohol either if

our kids are here.  If we >have a drink, which is rare, we are out at a

restaurant by ourselves.  The main >reason is that alcoholism runs pretty rampid on my

side of the family as well >as my husbands.  We’ve both seen what it does to

families and personally, I did >enough drinking when I was younger…don’t really hve

a desire anymore.  My >sons parents do drink though.  The mom of this boy did

tell me that she had a >beer or two in the evenings.  She let me know she

didn’t get drunk, but did >wind down to that.  She let me know this before my son

spent his first night >there.  Since then, I have let him stay several times.

He always has a good >time, but when I question him about the beer casually,

he says she only has >two.    I was fine with that.  I had told her never to

drive with him after she >had the first drink.  Lately he has been going over to

this boys house after >school on Wednesdays.  I always pick him up because it

is in the evenings and I >know she will have had a beer.  When I went to pick

him up though, she actually >was drinking a beer in front of me.  Don’t get me

wrong, I am by far not a >prude.  I was very wild growing up, but I do not want

to put those desires  in >my kids heads as being okay.  Am I over reacting?  I

know everyone has a right >to their own ways in their home, but my family thought

I should slow down the >friendship.  These boys are very close.  His friend is

a very good kid and I do >like his parents. I don’t think the parents are bad

parents at all, they just >have a different lifestyle.  I see them often and have

never seen them even >buzzing.  They treat my son great.  I just need

reassurance that I am making a >good choice.  Considering we have a lot of alcoholics

and recovering alcoholics >in the family, I don’t want my son to think it is a

necessary thing to have to >"wind down".  Maybe someone can give me their

experience or input. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Michelle…mommy of 3

Response:

I am curious as to if I am doing the right thing.  I thought I was, but some of my family questions my choice.  My sons best friend invites him over quite often.  They have been best friends for about 2 years.  He as well, stays at our house too.  The problem is that my husband and I do not drink around or in front of our children.  We aren’t drinkers in the first place, but we don’t allow adults over who would bring alcohol either if our kids are here.  If we have a drink, which is rare, we are out at a restaurant by ourselves.  The main reason is that alcoholism runs pretty rampid on my side of the family as well as my husbands.  We’ve both seen what it does to families and personally, I did enough drinking when I was younger…don’t really hve a desire anymore.  My sons parents do drink though.  The mom of this boy did tell me that she had a beer or two in the evenings.  She let me know she didn’t get drunk, but did wind down to that.  She let me know this before my son spent his first night there.  Since then, I have let him stay several times.  He always has a good time, but when I question him about the beer casually, he says she only has two.    I was fine with that.  I had told her never to drive with him after she had the first drink.  Lately he has been going over to this boys house after school on Wednesdays.  I always pick him up because it is in the evenings and I know she will have had a beer.  When I went to pick him up though, she actually was drinking a beer in front of me.  Don’t get me wrong, I am by far not a prude.  I was very wild growing up, but I do not want to put those desires  in my kids heads as being okay.  Am I over reacting?  I know everyone has a right to their own ways in their home, but my family thought I should slow down the friendship.  These boys are very close.  His friend is a very good kid and I do like his parents. I don’t think the parents are bad parents at all, they just have a different lifestyle.  I see them often and have never seen them even buzzing.  They treat my son great.  I just need reassurance that I am making a good choice.  Considering we have a lot of alcoholics and recovering alcoholics in the family, I don’t want my son to think it is a necessary thing to have to "wind down".  Maybe someone can give me their experience or input.   Michelle…mommy of 3

Response:

This has been going on for a few weeks — waking without wanting to be fed — Ive considered the teething theory, he is chewing on everything and drooling all over the place. Thanks for all your responses!! — Kari & Justin http://members.xoom.com/jstkaylie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello — I have a 5 month old who still wakes a few times during the > night. > Usually he is not hungry (rejects the breast) but cries even when I hold > and > rock him.  The first time he wakes is uaully around 12:30-1:00 am and is > very irritable, cries no matter what I do for about 30 mintes and goes > back > to sleep until 4:00 ish to be fed, sleeps another hour or so and is ready > to > get up for the day.  He goes to bed anywhere from 7:30 until about 9:00 > depending on his last nap (he’s not on a very good schedule yet!!)  Last > night I tried putting him in bed with us and he woke up at 11:00!!  He > screamed when I did anything, would not eat, I gave him simethicone > drops, > and around midnight he fell asleep until 5:00 am (but tossed all night, > and > wimpered so we got NO sleep!!)  I would love any advice on how I should > deal > with this — would it be ok to let him cry himself back to sleep or is he > too young for that?  I hate to hear him cry but even when I cuddle him he > arches his back and screams like Im hurting him!  I never had this > problem > with my daughter — she slept through the night at 6 weeks (man, I didnt > know how easy I had it!!)  I’d appreciate any input on how we might be > able > to cope with this — thanks! > Has he been doing this for long? Crying without wanting to be fed? If not, > he could be teething, which would also explain the whimpering. I would also > make sure that he is burped throughly before being put to bed. If he’s got > air bubbles trapped in his airway, it could be causing enough discomfort to > wake him up and cause him to whimper all night. It does sound as though he > is in some kind of discomfort. Also, make sure that he is neither too warm > or too cold. > Good luck. Hugs. > — > Danielle, > Maman to Marc-Andre – May 22, 1991 and Genevieve – Dec. 18, 1995 and > recently weaned > Writing from Canada > Parent-L Birth secretary > Visit my new web-page, view new pics of the kids, and, please, sign my > guest-book!! http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/home.html > My ICQ # is 6463692 > Canadian Special Education Chat Room – > http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/canspec.html > &canspec ICQ # 33710657

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Sounds like he is uncomfortable. Teething is probably a good first guess, especially since he’s been drooling (you might want to check with your pediatrician about infant tylenol or Motrin). If it’s not teething, maybe lying flat is bothering him – maybe he needs a wedge under the crib sheet to prop him up – it could be allergies/swollen sinuses or some kind of reflux. However, I would definitely consider teething first. Good Luck Heidi

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Does he maybe have a gas problem?  My daughter used to do the same thing with screaming and arching her back when she had painful gas.  I would lay her on her back and mover her legs in the ‘bicycle’ motion.  This motion helps to work the gas out (have you ever noticed it comes out more easily when you’re walking?  This is the same concept).  If this is the case, you may want to talk to your doctor about soy formula.  Once I took my daughter off of milk based formula (she only breastfed until 3 months) the gaseous nights were less and less.  She is almost two now and she still wakes up with them occasionally, but now she knows to put her little behind in the air and let it ‘rise out’. But what everyone is saying is that your little one sounds like he is uncomfortable or in pain.  Have you talked to your doctor about this?  You really should bring it up to him/her.  (mine is the one that taught me how to help my daughter get rid of gas without medication). Good luck and keep us updated! Annie Single Parent Support Group www.SingleParents.net – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello — I have a 5 month old who still wakes a few times during the night. > Usually he is not hungry (rejects the breast) but cries even when I hold and > rock him.  The first time he wakes is uaully around 12:30-1:00 am and is > very irritable, cries no matter what I do for about 30 mintes and goes back > to sleep until 4:00 ish to be fed, sleeps another hour or so and is ready to > get up for the day.  He goes to bed anywhere from 7:30 until about 9:00 > depending on his last nap (he’s not on a very good schedule yet!!)  Last > night I tried putting him in bed with us and he woke up at 11:00!!  He > screamed when I did anything, would not eat, I gave him simethicone drops, > and around midnight he fell asleep until 5:00 am (but tossed all night, and > wimpered so we got NO sleep!!)  I would love any advice on how I should deal > with this — would it be ok to let him cry himself back to sleep or is he > too young for that?  I hate to hear him cry but even when I cuddle him he > arches his back and screams like Im hurting him!  I never had this problem > with my daughter — she slept through the night at 6 weeks (man, I didnt > know how easy I had it!!)  I’d appreciate any input on how we might be able > to cope with this — thanks! > Kari > mommy to Kaylie 12/16/95 and Noah 4/7/99 > Kari & Justin > http://members.xoom.com/jstkaylie

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Have you tried swaddling him tightly in a crib sheet before putting him down to bed? I heard this advice on this newsgroup a few weeks ago and it has worked wonders on my 7-week-old. And the original poster said that the sleep clinic that taught him this swaddles babies up to one year old, so it seems it would be by no means too late for your 5-month old. — Be well, Barbara (Julian [7/22/97] and Aurora’s [7/19/99] mom) "The hardest thing about raising children is that they’re not stupid." — Me – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello — I have a 5 month old who still wakes a few times during the night. >Usually he is not hungry (rejects the breast) but cries even when I hold and >rock him.  The first time he wakes is uaully around 12:30-1:00 am and is >very irritable, cries no matter what I do for about 30 mintes and goes back >to sleep until 4:00 ish to be fed, sleeps another hour or so and is ready to >get up for the day.  He goes to bed anywhere from 7:30 until about 9:00 >depending on his last nap (he’s not on a very good schedule yet!!)  Last >night I tried putting him in bed with us and he woke up at 11:00!!  He >screamed when I did anything, would not eat, I gave him simethicone drops, >and around midnight he fell asleep until 5:00 am (but tossed all night, and >wimpered so we got NO sleep!!)  I would love any advice on how I should deal >with this — would it be ok to let him cry himself back to sleep or is he >too young for that?  I hate to hear him cry but even when I cuddle him he >arches his back and screams like Im hurting him!  I never had this problem >with my daughter — she slept through the night at 6 weeks (man, I didnt >know how easy I had it!!)  I’d appreciate any input on how we might be able >to cope with this — thanks! >Kari >mommy to Kaylie 12/16/95 and Noah 4/7/99 >Kari & Justin >http://members.xoom.com/jstkaylie

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> Have you tried swaddling him tightly in a crib sheet before putting him down > to bed?

I’ve read in more books than one that swaddling after one month is not recommended because it can hinder baby’s growth.  Anyone else ever read that?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Have you tried swaddling him tightly in a crib sheet before putting him down > to bed? I heard this advice on this newsgroup a few weeks ago and it has > worked wonders on my 7-week-old. And the original poster said that the sleep > clinic that taught him this swaddles babies up to one year old, so it seems > it would be by no means too late for your 5-month old. > — > Be well, Barbara (Julian [7/22/97] and Aurora’s [7/19/99] mom) > "The hardest thing about raising children is that they’re not stupid." — Me >Hello — I have a 5 month old who still wakes a few times during the night. >Usually he is not hungry (rejects the breast) but cries even when I hold > and >rock him.  The first time he wakes is uaully around 12:30-1:00 am and is >very irritable, cries no matter what I do for about 30 mintes and goes back >to sleep until 4:00 ish to be fed, sleeps another hour or so and is ready > to >get up for the day.  He goes to bed anywhere from 7:30 until about 9:00 >depending on his last nap (he’s not on a very good schedule yet!!)  Last >night I tried putting him in bed with us and he woke up at 11:00!!  He >screamed when I did anything, would not eat, I gave him simethicone drops, >and around midnight he fell asleep until 5:00 am (but tossed all night, and >wimpered so we got NO sleep!!)  I would love any advice on how I should > deal >with this — would it be ok to let him cry himself back to sleep or is he >too young for that?  I hate to hear him cry but even when I cuddle him he >arches his back and screams like Im hurting him!  I never had this problem >with my daughter — she slept through the night at 6 weeks (man, I didnt >know how easy I had it!!)  I’d appreciate any input on how we might be able >to cope with this — thanks! >Kari >mommy to Kaylie 12/16/95 and Noah 4/7/99 >Kari & Justin >http://members.xoom.com/jstkaylie

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello — I have a 5 month old who still wakes a few times during the night. > Usually he is not hungry (rejects the breast) but cries even when I hold and > rock him.  The first time he wakes is uaully around 12:30-1:00 am and is > very irritable, cries no matter what I do for about 30 mintes and goes back > to sleep until 4:00 ish to be fed, sleeps another hour or so and is ready to > get up for the day.  He goes to bed anywhere from 7:30 until about 9:00 > depending on his last nap (he’s not on a very good schedule yet!!)  Last > night I tried putting him in bed with us and he woke up at 11:00!!  He > screamed when I did anything, would not eat, I gave him simethicone drops, > and around midnight he fell asleep until 5:00 am (but tossed all night, and > wimpered so we got NO sleep!!)  I would love any advice on how I should deal > with this — would it be ok to let him cry himself back to sleep or is he > too young for that?  I hate to hear him cry but even when I cuddle him he > arches his back and screams like Im hurting him!  I never had this problem > with my daughter — she slept through the night at 6 weeks (man, I didnt > know how easy I had it!!)  I’d appreciate any input on how we might be able > to cope with this — thanks!

Has he been doing this for long? Crying without wanting to be fed? If not, he could be teething, which would also explain the whimpering. I would also make sure that he is burped throughly before being put to bed. If he’s got air bubbles trapped in his airway, it could be causing enough discomfort to wake him up and cause him to whimper all night. It does sound as though he is in some kind of discomfort. Also, make sure that he is neither too warm or too cold. Good luck. Hugs. — Danielle, Maman to Marc-Andre – May 22, 1991 and Genevieve – Dec. 18, 1995 and recently weaned Writing from Canada Parent-L Birth secretary Visit my new web-page, view new pics of the kids, and, please, sign my guest-book!! http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/home.html My ICQ # is 6463692 Canadian Special Education Chat Room – http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/canspec.html &canspec ICQ # 33710657

Response:

Hello — I have a 5 month old who still wakes a few times during the night. Usually he is not hungry (rejects the breast) but cries even when I hold and rock him.  The first time he wakes is uaully around 12:30-1:00 am and is very irritable, cries no matter what I do for about 30 mintes and goes back to sleep until 4:00 ish to be fed, sleeps another hour or so and is ready to get up for the day.  He goes to bed anywhere from 7:30 until about 9:00 depending on his last nap (he’s not on a very good schedule yet!!)  Last night I tried putting him in bed with us and he woke up at 11:00!!  He screamed when I did anything, would not eat, I gave him simethicone drops, and around midnight he fell asleep until 5:00 am (but tossed all night, and wimpered so we got NO sleep!!)  I would love any advice on how I should deal with this — would it be ok to let him cry himself back to sleep or is he too young for that?  I hate to hear him cry but even when I cuddle him he arches his back and screams like Im hurting him!  I never had this problem with my daughter — she slept through the night at 6 weeks (man, I didnt know how easy I had it!!)  I’d appreciate any input on how we might be able to cope with this — thanks! Kari mommy to Kaylie 12/16/95 and Noah 4/7/99 Kari & Justin http://members.xoom.com/jstkaylie

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Hi Laura, I can’t offer help, except to say that I am sorry. Also, that I do understand. My mother is clearly NOT fond of my son(3 1/2), while she thinks my daughters are delightful(2). In fact, we had a real blow out about it while they were visiting this summer. I think some of the reasons are the same, my son is a bit ‘too much’ for my mom. One of the things I most don’t understand is the ’supposed’ problem with Melissa’s hugging. She’s only 5!! I think it is very sweet that she is so affectionate. I remember being a big hugger, long past age 5. I sure hope someone here has some practical advice for you. I am afraid that when it comes to my kids, "tact" is often left wanting in my vocabulary. Especially with my mother. It is perhaps good that they live in Florida. Best of Luck. Beth – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am really having a hard time dealing with this…  So I could really use some > support or at least a friendly ear on this…  My daughter, as most of you > know, is almost 5.  She is a very energetic, happy, imaginative, outgoing > child..  She is also a little hyper and a bit too honest {is this a bad thing? > in this case, yes} > We are visiting my parents right now {I live in WA, they live in TX}  and it is > all too apparent that my mother does not like my daughter very much.. For the > main reason that she cannot control my child {I can though, thank you}  My > niece {Who lives a few minutes away is taken care of by my mother when my > sister works, usually at night}  My niece does not like to be touched or hugged > very much, and my daughter, just the opposite, loves to hug.. Well tonight, > Melissa {my daughter} hugged my niece who in turn shrugged up and said "No No > dont touch me"  I explain to Melissa that Megan does not like to be hugged so > please dont touch her.  Melissa doesnt press the issue and leaves Megan alone.. > But then my mother says, after the girls go off to play with my little sister > {age 7}, that it is way too unusual for Melissa to be so huggy at this age and > that in fact, everything Melissa does is unusual, like the fact that Melissa > doesn’t like her food prepared certain ways and has an opinion on almost > everything and is generally an "unusual child"  I am pretty ticked by this time > so I say "Yea well thats Melissa" and my mother gives me a look and says "Yeah > really huh.. I guess she’ll never change"  Well then a few minutes later my > little sister says to me "Melissa is SOO annoying when she hugs and when she > plays her pretend games, Mom said so too, I’m glad I’m not like that otherwise > then Mom wouldnt be nice to be either." Well I am at a point where I am about > to cry, this is just disgusting to me..  I realize my daughter is not perfect > and I realize she is probably a little too much likeme for my mother to handle > but is that any reason to be so hateful!?!?  When I confronted my mother about > this she said "Oh shush you’re taking things too seriously!"  Taking things too > seriously!?! WTF?!?! When it concerns my children you’re damned skippy I am > going to be a little bit more like a mother bear than intended..  It is all too > obvious that my daughter will not be accepted in the way that my neice or my > sister are mainly because she is opinionated and in my mothers world, children > should obey to the fullest extent that even their souls get suffocated and > their imaginations get crumbled..  I have no idea how to handle this and it is > really starting to get to me…  help me please!?! > -Laura > — Wicked Witch of the Net > —  How Can I Miss You if You Won’t Go Away? > —  View discipline as an ongoing process of helping your children to become > self-controlled and self-disciplined

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My folks went through a stage where they really preferred my son over my daughter–he was 5 and more independent, while she was only 1 and I think they were afraid of her.  They spent time with Cody when he was 1–but he was the only grandchild.  When Josie was 1 they wanted very little to do with her and it broke my heart.  They didn’t even want to come to her first birthday party because "the first birthday isn’t very important anyway"! I finally told them that they WOULD treat them equally if I had to force it and if they didn’t come to Jo’s birthday party, then they wouldn’t even be invited to Cody’s. If they didn’t want Jo to come visit, Cody wouldn’t be allowed to come visit. Etc.  It worked and they very quickly great to love her and not be afraid and everything is fine now. I was very concerned when I became pregnant with Patrick because he wasn’t planned and when I told Mom she said "how could you be so stupid?" (very tactful, btw)–but they seemed to have gotten the message and are (so far) treating him just like they did Cody.  I hated to be a bitch to Mom–but Cody was starting to notice the different treatment and I wasn’t going to stand for that.   kendra mom to cody, 6 on Saturday; josie, 22 months; and patrick, brand new

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Dear Laura, Hmmmm…. Ok, I guess I’m just as oppinionated as your daughter, so here it goes. If your Mother (or anyone else for that matter) doesn’t appreciate the beauty of your daughter’s wonderful personality, the Hell with her. Don’t let someone make her feel bad for being so open or expressive. Just because your little angel isn’t as cold and uncaring as she is, doesn’t give her the right to…..Oh, sorry, this letter really got me fired up! Good luck with your daughter, and if that means staying away from your Mother, I would. Rhonda HAVE A GREAT DAY!! http://community.webtv.net/Spyro4me/Justalittleaboutme

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Hi!  My daughter is one of the "a bit too honest" types as well.  This is certainly not a bad thing.  All I do is have her observe the reaction she gets to what she says.  If it hurts someone’s feelings, I ask her if she would want her feelings hurt in the same way by someone else.  She usually says no.  And then I ask her if there’s a way she could say it so it didn’t hurt the persons feelings or if it was something she really needed to say at all.  We figure it out and she becomes aware of the effect she creates on others and can judge what effect she really wants to create on others.  It’s the Socratic method. When you have an active child, the trick is to train them without breaking them.  They need their self motivation and confidence to push them to success later in life.  Intelligence and reasoning with the kid works better than anything else I’ve seen.  It’s hard work for the parent sometimes, but well worth it in the long run. But, some people need a good dose of honesty.  Your mother sounds like one of them.  What she did was horrid and I wouldn’t put up with it for a second.  From what you discribe here, sounds like she’s being pretty manipulative.  If I was in your shoes, I’d get her to quit it or get out while I still have a head on my shoulders. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am really having a hard time dealing with this…  So I could really use some > support or at least a friendly ear on this…  My daughter, as most of you > know, is almost 5.  She is a very energetic, happy, imaginative, outgoing > child..  She is also a little hyper and a bit too honest {is this a bad thing? > in this case, yes} > We are visiting my parents right now {I live in WA, they live in TX}  and it is > all too apparent that my mother does not like my daughter very much.. For the > main reason that she cannot control my child {I can though, thank you}  My > niece {Who lives a few minutes away is taken care of by my mother when my > sister works, usually at night}  My niece does not like to be touched or hugged > very much, and my daughter, just the opposite, loves to hug.. Well tonight, > Melissa {my daughter} hugged my niece who in turn shrugged up and said "No No > dont touch me"  I explain to Melissa that Megan does not like to be hugged so > please dont touch her.  Melissa doesnt press the issue and leaves Megan alone.. > But then my mother says, after the girls go off to play with my little sister > {age 7}, that it is way too unusual for Melissa to be so huggy at this age and > that in fact, everything Melissa does is unusual, like the fact that Melissa > doesn’t like her food prepared certain ways and has an opinion on almost > everything and is generally an "unusual child"  I am pretty ticked by this time > so I say "Yea well thats Melissa" and my mother gives me a look and says "Yeah > really huh.. I guess she’ll never change"  Well then a few minutes later my > little sister says to me "Melissa is SOO annoying when she hugs and when she > plays her pretend games, Mom said so too, I’m glad I’m not like that otherwise > then Mom wouldnt be nice to be either." Well I am at a point where I am about > to cry, this is just disgusting to me..  I realize my daughter is not perfect > and I realize she is probably a little too much likeme for my mother to handle > but is that any reason to be so hateful!?!?  When I confronted my mother about > this she said "Oh shush you’re taking things too seriously!"  Taking things too > seriously!?! WTF?!?! When it concerns my children you’re damned skippy I am > going to be a little bit more like a mother bear than intended..  It is all too > obvious that my daughter will not be accepted in the way that my neice or my > sister are mainly because she is opinionated and in my mothers world, children > should obey to the fullest extent that even their souls get suffocated and > their imaginations get crumbled..  I have no idea how to handle this and it is > really starting to get to me…  help me please!?! > -Laura > — Wicked Witch of the Net > —  How Can I Miss You if You Won’t Go Away? > —  View discipline as an ongoing process of helping your children to become > self-controlled and self-disciplined

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Laura, Like most of the others, I can’t offer any advice her.  But I did want to say KUDOS TO  YOU!   You are doing a brilliant job of raising a perfectly normal, affectionate, and loving child.  You should be commended.  There are all to many times when children are not taught to love and hug and kiss these day.  (maybe that is one of the reasons we see the violence that is so prominent in our young people today?).  I just wanted to let you know that you are not doing anything wrong, and that you are doing a beautiful job of parenting. Annie Single Parent Support Group www.SingleParents.net – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am really having a hard time dealing with this…  So I could really use some > support or at least a friendly ear on this…  My daughter, as most of you > know, is almost 5.  She is a very energetic, happy, imaginative, outgoing > child..  She is also a little hyper and a bit too honest {is this a bad thing? > in this case, yes} > We are visiting my parents right now {I live in WA, they live in TX}  and it is > all too apparent that my mother does not like my daughter very much.. For the > main reason that she cannot control my child {I can though, thank you}  My > niece {Who lives a few minutes away is taken care of by my mother when my > sister works, usually at night}  My niece does not like to be touched or hugged > very much, and my daughter, just the opposite, loves to hug.. Well tonight, > Melissa {my daughter} hugged my niece who in turn shrugged up and said "No No > dont touch me"  I explain to Melissa that Megan does not like to be hugged so > please dont touch her.  Melissa doesnt press the issue and leaves Megan alone.. > But then my mother says, after the girls go off to play with my little sister > {age 7}, that it is way too unusual for Melissa to be so huggy at this age and > that in fact, everything Melissa does is unusual, like the fact that Melis sa > doesn’t like her food prepared certain ways and has an opinion on almost > everything and is generally an "unusual child"  I am pretty ticked by this time > so I say "Yea well thats Melissa" and my mother gives me a look and says "Yeah > really huh.. I guess she’ll never change"  Well then a few minutes later my > little sister says to me "Melissa is SOO annoying when she hugs and when she > plays her pretend games, Mom said so too, I’m glad I’m not like that otherwise > then Mom wouldnt be nice to be either." Well I am at a point where I am about > to cry, this is just disgusting to me..  I realize my daughter is not perfect > and I realize she is probably a little too much likeme for my mother to handle > but is that any reason to be so hateful!?!?  When I confronted my mother about > this she said "Oh shush you’re taking things too seriously!"  Taking things too > seriously!?! WTF?!?! When it concerns my children you’re damned skippy I am > going to be a little bit more like a mother bear than intended..  It is all too > obvious that my daughter will not be accepted in the way that my neice or my > sister are mainly because she is opinionated and in my mothers world, children > should obey to the fullest extent that even their souls get suffocated and > their imaginations get crumbled..  I have no idea how to handle this and it is > really starting to get to me…  help me please!?! > -Laura > — Wicked Witch of the Net > —  How Can I Miss You if You Won’t Go Away? > —  View discipline as an ongoing process of helping your children to become > self-controlled and self-disciplined

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->My niece does not like to be touched or hugged >very much, and my daughter, just the opposite, loves to hug.. Well tonight, >Melissa {my daughter} hugged my niece who in turn shrugged up and said "No No >dont touch me"  I explain to Melissa that Megan does not like to be hugged so >please dont touch her.  Melissa doesnt press the issue and leaves Megan alone.. >But then my mother says, after the girls go off to play with my little sister >{age 7}, that it is way too unusual for Melissa to be so huggy at this age and >that in fact, everything Melissa does is unusual, like the fact that Melissa >doesn’t like her food prepared certain ways and has an opinion on almost >everything and is generally an "unusual child"  I am pretty ticked by this time >so I say "Yea well thats Melissa" and my mother gives me a look and says "Yeah >really huh.. I guess she’ll never change"  Well then a few minutes later my >little sister says to me "Melissa is SOO annoying when she hugs

Oh boy did this just remind me of something!! My son and I are very close, probably because we spent many years together as a "team" when I was a single mom after my divorce from his dad.  As a smaller child (he is a teen now, so of course the rules have changed!!) he was so-o-o-o-o affectionate… he loved to sit on my lap, to hug and be hugged, a kiss goodbye and a kiss hello, I would sit on his bed with him and read his story each night rather than sit in a chair by the bed, we would snuggle together on the couch and watch a tv show or a kid’s movie and I would stroke his hair… in general there was a lot of physical contact between us.  It started when he was an infant and I learned to give infant massage in the hospital (when your in for a week you get to do a lot more in the hospital!) and I have always enjoyed that contact and feeling of closeness, and never once thought anything of it. My mother, however, was appalled by it.  She told me it was "unnatural" and that "people might think things" if I continued to be so openly affectionate with him.  Probably because I was sexually molested as a child, even though she did absolutely nothing to end it then, she now seemed to have some sort of concern where it was unwarranted!!  Guilt, perhaps?  I tell you, some people’s minds are so messed up they can’t tell the difference between love and sex, reading sexual things into completely innocent stuff!  That is so gross!!!  Well, it did seem like something she would say, considering how cold my mother was (and is) to me and my siblings. Even though I was a really young parent and really had no clue (other than knowing how I DIDN’T want to raise my child), I knew there could be nothing wrong with this affection, despite what she was trying to read into it.  So I ignored her comments, and every time she would scowl at me I would give him an extra kiss or hug!!  Drove her nuts!! Awww I miss those days!  Now it is SOOOOO embarassing for him to even be SEEN with his parents, let alone be seen getting a hug or a kiss when I drop him off at school!  Which I guess is a good thing, I’m sure he would hate to be called a "mama’s boy" and it is important that he foster his independence.  I am so proud to see him growing up!! Oh well, he still likes to be coddled when he is sick, just today he had a headache and I massaged his neck, head and shoulders for him, and he still gives big hugs goodnight when hes at home.  And he still says "I love you". I hope he is learning to be affectionate and to show your feelings… I would hate for him to end up an icebox like my parents who, to this day, I wonder if they even love me! So I guess this doesn’t help answer your questions much, but just to know to go with your gut feelings, they are usually right IMHO. — Email originating from Usenet is not accepted by this account.

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I feel your pain!!  Except it’s not my mother, but my mother-in-law!  She looks down on my little boy and my sister-in-laws two children.  I guess it is because we married her sons, and we are not her blood.  She is so weird!! I take better care of my child than her daughter does her own, but yet everything she does is just fine.  She drops her children off with her mother every weekend so she don’t have to take care of them.  When my sister in law had her first child, Brittany, my mother in law told her that her daughters little girl was the prettiest little girl she had ever saw!!  How rude!!  She thinks that everything I do is wrong and always starts the sentences with, %22well, when my children were that age%22, or %22when Missys’(her daughter) was that age.  It makes me so mad!  So I know all about the mother not liking your child.  I just ignore her and go about my business!  She will be the one missing out when they get older!!    -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?b ****-  Real Discussions for Real People

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Your daughter is fine , and so are you.  Mom has to learn how to deal.  My mother used to start a sentence with "well, if they were MY kids……"  and I finally had to look at her and say  " well, they arent, they are MY kids!" Sometimes moms figure they have the right to parent you forever, and you have to kind of go yeah yeah yeah and do it your own way.  If she wont stop, then you can limit visits, or if your daughter says something to you about it, just tell her  "you know, thats just grandma!"  Dont let it get you down……your mom had her chance to raise a family, this is your turn.

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> Your daughter is fine , and so are you.  Mom has to learn how to deal.  My > mother used to start a sentence with "well, if they were MY kids……"  and I > finally had to look at her and say  " well, they arent, they are MY kids!" > Sometimes moms figure they have the right to parent you forever, and you have > to kind of go yeah yeah yeah and do it your own way.  If she wont stop, then > you can limit visits, or if your daughter says something to you about it, just > tell her  "you know, thats just grandma!"  Dont let it get you down……your > mom had her chance to raise a family, this is your turn.

I agree 100% — BUT whenever people find your kids annoying, it is a good idea to step back and reflect a bit.  It is possible that they have a point.  When an irritating nagging Mom or MIL does this, our first tendency is to be defensive ‘MY kids yadda yadda’  But just because MIL or whomever is irritating doesn’t mean that the child isn’t behaving inappropriately.  So stand up for your kids and your rights — but in the secrecy of your soul — think about it, take a good second look at the child’s behavior — be SURE you have not tolerated uncivilized behavior because you are used to it.

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> I am really having a hard time dealing with this…  So I could really use some > support or at least a friendly ear on this…  My daughter, as most of you > know, is almost 5.  She is a very energetic, happy, imaginative, outgoing > child..  She is also a little hyper and a bit too honest {is this a bad thing? > in this case, yes}

What are you doing with my daughter?!? Bring her back this instant! Really, though this sounds *just* like my 5 year old…who just started kindergarten today, BTW. (sniff) > We are visiting my parents right now {I live in WA, they live in TX}  and it is > all too apparent that my mother does not like my daughter very much.. For the > main reason that she cannot control my child {I can though, thank you}  

My mom came to stay with us about 1 1/2 years ago to take care of Leah when my son was born. Although we never discussed it, I definitely got the impression that she found Leah to be a little more…challenging than she expected. My parents were actually pretty easy-going for parents in the 60’s and 70’s, but still, their style is and was much more rule-oriented than mine. I have also found, as you have probably too, that a light touch is by far the best method for a child like yours and mine. Leah questions everything and challenges *everything*, not because she’s disrespectful, but because she really wants to understand. This, of course, is sometimes extremely aggravating if you want her to do something *now*, but in the long run it is a blessing, since once she understands the whys and hows, the ‘rules’ are internalized and don’t need much reinforcement from me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My > niece {Who lives a few minutes away is taken care of by my mother when my > sister works, usually at night}  My niece does not like to be touched or hugged > very much, and my daughter, just the opposite, loves to hug.. Well tonight, > Melissa {my daughter} hugged my niece who in turn shrugged up and said "No No > dont touch me"  I explain to Melissa that Megan does not like to be hugged so > please dont touch her.  Melissa doesnt press the issue and leaves Megan > alone.. > But then my mother says, after the girls go off to play with my little sister > {age 7}, that it is way too unusual for Melissa to be so huggy at this age and > that in fact, everything Melissa does is unusual, like the fact that Melissa > doesn’t like her food prepared certain ways and has an opinion on almost > everything and is generally an "unusual child"  I am pretty ticked by this > time > so I say "Yea well thats Melissa" and my mother gives me a look and says "Yeah > really huh.. I guess she’ll never change"  Well then a few minutes later my > little sister says to me "Melissa is SOO annoying when she hugs and when she > plays her pretend games, Mom said so too, I’m glad I’m not like that otherwise > then Mom wouldnt be nice to be either." Well I am at a point where I am about > to cry, this is just disgusting to me.

Well, I am disgusted and furious just reading about this! What in *hell* is wrong with a five year old liking to hug? And what in *hell* is wrong with ‘pretend games’? You have an affectionate, imaginative and intelligent child and that’s something to be *proud* of! I’m admittedly a little biased since my daughter is like this too, but think you had every right to be upset. >  I realize my daughter is not perfect > and I realize she is probably a little too much likeme for my mother to handle > but is that any reason to be so hateful!?!?  When I confronted my mother about > this she said "Oh shush you’re taking things too seriously!"  Taking things too > seriously!?! WTF?!?! When it concerns my children you’re damned skippy I am > going to be a little bit more like a mother bear than intended..  It is all too > obvious that my daughter will not be accepted in the way that my neice or my > sister are mainly because she is opinionated and in my mothers world, children > should obey to the fullest extent that even their souls get suffocated and > their imaginations get crumbled..  I have no idea how to handle this and it is > really starting to get to me…  help me please!?!

My big worry would be that if the 7 year old picked up on the fact that your Mom is treating your daughter differently, that your daughter can pick up on it too. Did you mention *that* to your mom? I don’t know how comfortable you are being candid with your mother, but I think you need to put the cards on the table. Tell her that you’ve noticed that she treats Melissa differently, and that your little sister has noticed it too. Tell her that Melissa may be different than the kids she’s used to, and your parenting style may be different, but that you’re proud of her and don’t want her hurt by your mom’s prejudice. If your mom denies there’s a problem, or is unwilling to try to love your daughter the way she is, you may have no choice but to limit visits. It’s sad, because if you just accept and appreciate the Leahs and Melissas of the world for what they are, they really are a joy to be around. (My daughter’s preschool teachers used to trade ‘Leah-isms’ with us–funny and insightful comments she comes up with all the time.) I’m happy to say that on our last visit with my parents things went much better; for one thing, they didn’t have to discipline her, but more importantly I think they finally ‘got’ what she’s about. I hope your mother does someday too. Sorry this went on so long, but I really feel for your situation and wanted you to be absolutely sure that there’s at least one other mom in the world who understands and appreciates your daughter! Laura Uerling

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{{{Laura}}}  I went through the same thing with my mom.  I think it has something to do with their own frustration over not being able to dictate how you do things anymore.  I simply made it very clear that I wasn’t going to allow her to treat my daughter badly and that she’d better get it together or else.  If I was forced to choose she can guess who will win.  I would miss her terribly but my daughter’s self-esteem is too precious to play those kinds of games. She got the message and I think she genuinely likes her now.  Sometimes the qualities of a budding independent thinker are hard for some people to handle. They have a picture of a demure and compliant child in their head and it sticks in their craw when they are challenged.  Well, it’s time for grandma to grow up.  There is nothing wrong with you or your daughter, it’s your mom’s problem.  Let her deal with it and stay away if it is too painful.  You have the right to protect you daughter and yourself. Some people are just plain "toxic" and your mom may be one of them. Kris

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I am really having a hard time dealing with this…  So I could really use some support or at least a friendly ear on this…  My daughter, as most of you know, is almost 5.  She is a very energetic, happy, imaginative, outgoing child..  She is also a little hyper and a bit too honest {is this a bad thing? in this case, yes} We are visiting my parents right now {I live in WA, they live in TX}  and it is all too apparent that my mother does not like my daughter very much.. For the main reason that she cannot control my child {I can though, thank you}  My niece {Who lives a few minutes away is taken care of by my mother when my sister works, usually at night}  My niece does not like to be touched or hugged very much, and my daughter, just the opposite, loves to hug.. Well tonight, Melissa {my daughter} hugged my niece who in turn shrugged up and said "No No dont touch me"  I explain to Melissa that Megan does not like to be hugged so please dont touch her.  Melissa doesnt press the issue and leaves Megan alone.. But then my mother says, after the girls go off to play with my little sister {age 7}, that it is way too unusual for Melissa to be so huggy at this age and that in fact, everything Melissa does is unusual, like the fact that Melissa doesn’t like her food prepared certain ways and has an opinion on almost everything and is generally an "unusual child"  I am pretty ticked by this time so I say "Yea well thats Melissa" and my mother gives me a look and says "Yeah really huh.. I guess she’ll never change"  Well then a few minutes later my little sister says to me "Melissa is SOO annoying when she hugs and when she plays her pretend games, Mom said so too, I’m glad I’m not like that otherwise then Mom wouldnt be nice to be either." Well I am at a point where I am about to cry, this is just disgusting to me..  I realize my daughter is not perfect and I realize she is probably a little too much likeme for my mother to handle but is that any reason to be so hateful!?!?  When I confronted my mother about this she said "Oh shush you’re taking things too seriously!"  Taking things too seriously!?! WTF?!?! When it concerns my children you’re damned skippy I am going to be a little bit more like a mother bear than intended..  It is all too obvious that my daughter will not be accepted in the way that my neice or my sister are mainly because she is opinionated and in my mothers world, children should obey to the fullest extent that even their souls get suffocated and their imaginations get crumbled..  I have no idea how to handle this and it is really starting to get to me…  help me please!?! -Laura — Wicked Witch of the Net —  How Can I Miss You if You Won’t Go Away? —  View discipline as an ongoing process of helping your children to become self-controlled and self-disciplined

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I put mine in beds about a month ago.  I babyproofed the room, put a gate across the doorway, made sure they couldn’t turn the light on and left them to it. Yes, they run around a bit.  But overall it seems to work fine and they are in bed and/or asleep in about an hour.  Maybe you need to let your dd get over the "excitement" of being free, and not add to it by any attention (negative or otherwise)? –Janet Elliot, Hanna, Connor  (10/21/96)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Does anyone have any good experiences with going from crib to bed?  My son > was in a bed at 15 months because we had another baby that needed the crib. > He had no problems whatsoever.  He had one night or two where he got out of > his bed but after that he was just fine.  And he never fell out or anything. > Now I have one that is almost 2 and I am trying to get her to sleep in a > normal bed.  Actually it’s a twin mattress that is sitting on the floor > underneath my sons "bunk" bed.  But she just gets up and plays after we put > her to bed.  And then that makes our son want to get out of bed and play > also.  Then it becomes bedtime disaster for us.  But we’re in a new place > and there isn’t a lot of space for the crib so we had her sleeping in a > Graco port-a-crib.  She’s just fine in that only she seems to be outgrowing > it in length. > Anyway, any help would be appreciated. > — > It is far better to know our own weaknesses > and failings than to point out those of others. >                                     — Jawaharlal Nebru

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I agree.  I put my daughter into a toddler bed a few months ago (she’s 21 months) because I was afraid she was going to break her neck if I didn’t! The little climber!  To this day when I put her down and shut her down, she will fuss for about 5 minutes, and I hear her running around the room for awhile, but I will not turn the light on for her.  I’ll go in and check on her on occasion, but overall I just let her be.  She knows it’s bedtime, and she also knows if mommy comes in and sees her out of bed that I will put her back in bed and kiss her goodnight again.  I would just lay off of it for a few nights and see what happens.  So they get up and play a little…it’s their room…and they will eventually fall asleep…they have too! LOL Hugs! Annie Single Parent Support Group http://www.SingleParents.net

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I put mine in beds about a month ago.  I babyproofed the room, put a gate > across the doorway, made sure they couldn’t turn the light on and left them > to it. > Yes, they run around a bit.  But overall it seems to work fine and they are > in bed and/or asleep in about an hour.  Maybe you need to let your dd get > over the "excitement" of being free, and not add to it by any attention > (negative or otherwise)? > –Janet > Elliot, Hanna, Connor  (10/21/96) > Does anyone have any good experiences with going from crib to bed?  My son > was in a bed at 15 months because we had another baby that needed the > crib. > He had no problems whatsoever.  He had one night or two where he got out > of > his bed but after that he was just fine.  And he never fell out or > anything. > Now I have one that is almost 2 and I am trying to get her to sleep in a > normal bed.  Actually it’s a twin mattress that is sitting on the floor > underneath my sons "bunk" bed.  But she just gets up and plays after we > put > her to bed.  And then that makes our son want to get out of bed and play > also.  Then it becomes bedtime disaster for us.  But we’re in a new place > and there isn’t a lot of space for the crib so we had her sleeping in a > Graco port-a-crib.  She’s just fine in that only she seems to be > outgrowing > it in length. > Anyway, any help would be appreciated. > — > It is far better to know our own weaknesses > and failings than to point out those of others. >                                     — Jawaharlal Nebru

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I have also found that use of a "white noise" to cover the conversation, pages turning in my book, typing on the ng (8-0)  to be helpful.  I have also taken to putting a kitchen timer set for about 30 minutes in a place where my son can hear it ticking/ringing.  He knows that he is allowed to play quietly on his bed, with a flashlight and three pre-chosen smallish toys [often matchbox, but not always] until it rings.  Then, he is to turn out the light, put the toys aside, and lay down. This has made our bed times [his and mine] much less stressful and he seems to be laying down a tad earlier than he used to.  Good luck. – Aula

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> One thing that worked for us in a small apartment was that we played > classical music in our space — the toddler never got used to absolute > quiet to sleep — and the music tended to make our conversation less > disruptive.  Whispering and tiptoeing around is a losing gambit — the > key is to keep a noise level that is sort of continuous.  [and your > own musical tastes of course -- although, I suppose heavy metal (or > trumpet concertos) might not be the right idea]

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dd == dear / darling daughter –Janet Elliot, Hanna, Connor  (10/21/96)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well, I do let her run around.  I’ve tried that.  But it doesn’t only last > an hour.  Some nights it lasts clear til midnight.  Plus she shares a room > with her 3 year old brother so once she’s out of bed he climbs down from his > bunk and plays too.  And he refuses to sleep without a nightlight.  He says > the monsters will get him.  So we’ve tried putting her down for bed first > since she usually likes to sleep longer anyway.  but after waiting a couple > hours for her to go to sleep we want to go to sleep ourselves so we finally > put our son down to bed.  I hadn’t thought of a gate across the door. > That’s a great idea because she can open her door and after we put her to > bed she just comes walking right back out.  And it’s so hard to keep the > apartment completely quiet because it’s so small.  I know she can hear us > after we put her down.  We try to whisper, but i think she can still hear > things moving around. > By the way…what’s all these abbreviations going around the newsgroup? > Like dd and dh?  Did I miss something? > I agree.  I put my daughter into a toddler bed a few months ago (she’s 21 > months) because I was afraid she was going to break her neck if I didn’t! > The little climber!  To this day when I put her down and shut her down, > she > will fuss for about 5 minutes, and I hear her running around the room for > awhile, but I will not turn the light on for her.  I’ll go in and check on > her on occasion, but overall I just let her be.  She knows it’s bedtime, > and > she also knows if mommy comes in and sees her out of bed that I will put > her > back in bed and kiss her goodnight again.  I would just lay off of it for > a > few nights and see what happens.  So they get up and play a little…it’s > their room…and they will eventually fall asleep…they have too! LOL > Hugs! > Annie > Single Parent Support Group > http://www.SingleParents.net > > I put mine in beds about a month ago.  I babyproofed the room, put a > gate > > across the doorway, made sure they couldn’t turn the light on and left > them > > to it. > > Yes, they run around a bit.  But overall it seems to work fine and they > are > > in bed and/or asleep in about an hour.  Maybe you need to let your dd > get > > over the "excitement" of being free, and not add to it by any attention > > (negative or otherwise)? > > –Janet > > Elliot, Hanna, Connor  (10/21/96) > > > Does anyone have any good experiences with going from crib to bed? My > son > > > was in a bed at 15 months because we had another baby that needed the > > crib. > > > He had no problems whatsoever.  He had one night or two where he got > out > > of > > > his bed but after that he was just fine.  And he never fell out or > > anything. > > > Now I have one that is almost 2 and I am trying to get her to sleep in > a > > > normal bed.  Actually it’s a twin mattress that is sitting on the > floor > > > underneath my sons "bunk" bed.  But she just gets up and plays after > we > > put > > > her to bed.  And then that makes our son want to get out of bed and > play > > > also.  Then it becomes bedtime disaster for us.  But we’re in a new > place > > > and there isn’t a lot of space for the crib so we had her sleeping in > a > > > Graco port-a-crib.  She’s just fine in that only she seems to be > > outgrowing > > > it in length. > > > Anyway, any help would be appreciated. > > > — > > > It is far better to know our own weaknesses > > > and failings than to point out those of others. > > >                                     — Jawaharlal Nebru

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Well, I do let her run around.  I’ve tried that.  But it doesn’t only last > an hour.  Some nights it lasts clear til midnight.  Plus she shares a room > with her 3 year old brother so once she’s out of bed he climbs down from his > bunk and plays too.  And he refuses to sleep without a nightlight.  He says > the monsters will get him.  So we’ve tried putting her down for bed first > since she usually likes to sleep longer anyway.  but after waiting a couple > hours for her to go to sleep we want to go to sleep ourselves so we finally > put our son down to bed.  I hadn’t thought of a gate across the door. > That’s a great idea because she can open her door and after we put her to > bed she just comes walking right back out.  And it’s so hard to keep the > apartment completely quiet because it’s so small.  I know she can hear us > after we put her down.  We try to whisper, but i think she can still hear > things moving around. > By the way…what’s all these abbreviations going around the newsgroup? > Like dd and dh?  Did I miss something?

One thing that worked for us in a small apartment was that we played classical music in our space — the toddler never got used to absolute quiet to sleep — and the music tended to make our conversation less disruptive.  Whispering and tiptoeing around is a losing gambit — the key is to keep a noise level that is sort of continuous.  [and your own musical tastes of course -- although, I suppose heavy metal (or trumpet concertos) might not be the right idea]

Response:

Well, I do let her run around.  I’ve tried that.  But it doesn’t only last an hour.  Some nights it lasts clear til midnight.  Plus she shares a room with her 3 year old brother so once she’s out of bed he climbs down from his bunk and plays too.  And he refuses to sleep without a nightlight.  He says the monsters will get him.  So we’ve tried putting her down for bed first since she usually likes to sleep longer anyway.  but after waiting a couple hours for her to go to sleep we want to go to sleep ourselves so we finally put our son down to bed.  I hadn’t thought of a gate across the door. That’s a great idea because she can open her door and after we put her to bed she just comes walking right back out.  And it’s so hard to keep the apartment completely quiet because it’s so small.  I know she can hear us after we put her down.  We try to whisper, but i think she can still hear things moving around. By the way…what’s all these abbreviations going around the newsgroup? Like dd and dh?  Did I miss something?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I agree.  I put my daughter into a toddler bed a few months ago (she’s 21 > months) because I was afraid she was going to break her neck if I didn’t! > The little climber!  To this day when I put her down and shut her down, she > will fuss for about 5 minutes, and I hear her running around the room for > awhile, but I will not turn the light on for her.  I’ll go in and check on > her on occasion, but overall I just let her be.  She knows it’s bedtime, and > she also knows if mommy comes in and sees her out of bed that I will put her > back in bed and kiss her goodnight again.  I would just lay off of it for a > few nights and see what happens.  So they get up and play a little…it’s > their room…and they will eventually fall asleep…they have too! LOL > Hugs! > Annie > Single Parent Support Group > http://www.SingleParents.net > I put mine in beds about a month ago.  I babyproofed the room, put a gate > across the doorway, made sure they couldn’t turn the light on and left > them > to it. > Yes, they run around a bit.  But overall it seems to work fine and they > are > in bed and/or asleep in about an hour.  Maybe you need to let your dd get > over the "excitement" of being free, and not add to it by any attention > (negative or otherwise)? > –Janet > Elliot, Hanna, Connor  (10/21/96) > > Does anyone have any good experiences with going from crib to bed?  My > son > > was in a bed at 15 months because we had another baby that needed the > crib. > > He had no problems whatsoever.  He had one night or two where he got out > of > > his bed but after that he was just fine.  And he never fell out or > anything. > > Now I have one that is almost 2 and I am trying to get her to sleep in a > > normal bed.  Actually it’s a twin mattress that is sitting on the floor > > underneath my sons "bunk" bed.  But she just gets up and plays after we > put > > her to bed.  And then that makes our son want to get out of bed and play > > also.  Then it becomes bedtime disaster for us.  But we’re in a new > place > > and there isn’t a lot of space for the crib so we had her sleeping in a > > Graco port-a-crib.  She’s just fine in that only she seems to be > outgrowing > > it in length. > > Anyway, any help would be appreciated. > > — > > It is far better to know our own weaknesses > > and failings than to point out those of others. > >                                     — Jawaharlal Nebru

Response:

Does anyone have any good experiences with going from crib to bed?  My son was in a bed at 15 months because we had another baby that needed the crib. He had no problems whatsoever.  He had one night or two where he got out of his bed but after that he was just fine.  And he never fell out or anything. Now I have one that is almost 2 and I am trying to get her to sleep in a normal bed.  Actually it’s a twin mattress that is sitting on the floor underneath my sons "bunk" bed.  But she just gets up and plays after we put her to bed.  And then that makes our son want to get out of bed and play also.  Then it becomes bedtime disaster for us.  But we’re in a new place and there isn’t a lot of space for the crib so we had her sleeping in a Graco port-a-crib.  She’s just fine in that only she seems to be outgrowing it in length. Anyway, any help would be appreciated. — It is far better to know our own weaknesses and failings than to point out those of others.                                     — Jawaharlal Nebru

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Yes, thanks, I just went to a story time today, those are great, but only 1/2 hour. Filling up a whole day with a toddler is tough AND hoping to have adult conversation. I’m seriously considering going back to school this year. Laura

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Thanks for the information about FEMALE, I am asking starting the Central Florida chapter with someone else. It is a great organization, we need to get it off the ground so right now we haven’t developed playgroups yet. Laura

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I can certainly sympathize with you!  I am a teacher, so am a sahm for 3 months of the year and by August I really *need* to go back to work. Right now I am on maternity leave until 10/4–so that make 4 solids months of being "mommie" and, although I love my family, I am screaming.  I just get so sick of housework, etc.  I do work on school stuff at home, but that is not real fun because it isn’t very convenient.  I also get time away (another great dh)–but not enough talking to other grown-ups about stuff that uses my brain. In October I am going back to work and my dh is becoming a stay-at-home-dad–his temperment is much better suited to that.  SO–at least this is only temporary! BTW–kindermusik until they are 3 is for parents and children together.  I really enjoyed it, but you get to sing the fun songs right along with the kids. kendra mom to cody, 6 on Saturday; josie, 22 months; and patrick, brand new

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Have you tried story time at your local library? Also religious activities(usually have nursery)may be of some help. J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Could some of you tell me if I’m nuts and what you all suggest. I am in the > category of someone (post professional corporate america drop out, home 3 > months maternity leave, back to work 6 months part time, now staying at home > full time since Jan. 99). > I have had my daughter in a playgroup since 7 weeks, once a week, I can go to > the local wellness center and workout (on my own as most group classes are > later or early to accomodate working people), they have a wonderful nursery > there…I get out at night if I need to (wonderful husband)..but my problem is > ….. > I AM MISERABLE 2 or 3 days a week when I am not with friends (1-2 days a week I > can guarantee adult contact, the rest, I’m on my own). > I need 3 things that make staying at home tolerable…..2 of them I have….. > 1) Napping daughter (she’s a great sleeper most days) > 2) Doing something to use my brain (I started the Orlando chapter of a national > not for profit mom support group…I’m in Orlando so anyone interested email > me) > 3) I get alot of adult stimulation…this is the tough one I know alot of > people but…my playgroup friends are all doing there "own" thing, either with > family, other playgroups, or content at home….I am not a content at home > mom…I go nutty 3-4 hours in a row at home trying to entertain my > daughter..only one section of our house is really baby proof, although big, > that’s where we are "stuck" if we stay at home….other friends are working or > live farther away….Videos entertain her but I hate to have videos on all day, > and I do love to play/read with her, but not hours in a row……. > I’m looking into Kindermusik, activity classes, AND am already in Parents Day > out 2x a week (well my daughter is) and I use this time to work or get > online…. > Am I crazy or just in continous transition..I am not really happy anymore…..I > don’t want to go back to work (we had a nanny and I just don’t want to leave my > baby again for THAT long, a break here in there okay, and I’m burnt out on what > I was doing at work)……A friend of mine says people would "kill" to be in my > shoes….yes, I’ve heard this, and know this..but some of us are not cut out to > be happy and smiling staying home 7 days a week? Do all you stay at home moms > get out with adults alot or do you find contentment at home? If you find my > computer is in a room that I can only use when my daughter (17 mos) is napping, > as it’s our "office:, I’m getting desperate and seriously considering finding a > babysitter so I can take a class one day a week to see adults and discuss > things..use my brain again. The daytime hours are the problem, not the > nighttime. I love my family time and really don’t need so much of a "break" at > night, I need a "break" during the day……Anyone in Orlando please > advise…I’m already in Moms Club, and starting another moms group but it will > be sometime before that gets going…..any other groups going that include mom > and tots?? or a program that allows you bring your kids while they are watched > in another room close to you, and you can have "big person time", ie. book > clubs, discussion groups etc?????? > I’m not a stay at home mom  and I’m not a working mom? What am I????? Does > anyone else out there fit this description? I feel like I am the ONLY one AND > that this is a very strange mix of not enjoying staying at home, not enjoying > working (and leaving my child 25 hours a week like I was). > Sanity? Suggestions? Others out there like me?? > Thank you!!! and p.s. any orlando moms email me if you want info on the mom and > tot group, I’ll email you my recent press release and meeting info (sept. 15th, > 7-9pm) > p.p.s. what are good sources to find GREAT, reliable, CPR certified babysitters > besides your friends (my friends have sitters that are REALLY busy already)

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Response:

You are not crazy!  You are used to being a corporate busy person.  Have you thought about starting your own business from home?  Or volunteering part-time at a library or anything along those lines.  I know that when I was at home all the time I was about to go bonkers!  But then I started my own business (which made absolutely NO money, but I had fun and it gave me something to do and I was above all…HAPPY!), of course now I am working full-time again but there is no way I could stay at home all day without working some. Take heart…you’re not loco! Good luck! Annie Single Parent Support Group www.SingleParents.net

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Could some of you tell me if I’m nuts and what you all suggest. I am in the > category of someone (post professional corporate america drop out, home 3 > months maternity leave, back to work 6 months part time, now staying at home > full time since Jan. 99). > I have had my daughter in a playgroup since 7 weeks, once a week, I can go to > the local wellness center and workout (on my own as most group classes are > later or early to accomodate working people), they have a wonderful nursery > there…I get out at night if I need to (wonderful husband)..but my problem is > ….. > I AM MISERABLE 2 or 3 days a week when I am not with friends (1-2 days a week I > can guarantee adult contact, the rest, I’m on my own). > I need 3 things that make staying at home tolerable…..2 of them I have….. > 1) Napping daughter (she’s a great sleeper most days) > 2) Doing something to use my brain (I started the Orlando chapter of a national > not for profit mom support group…I’m in Orlando so anyone interested email > me) > 3) I get alot of adult stimulation…this is the tough one I know alot of > people but…my playgroup friends are all doing there "own" thing, either with > family, other playgroups, or content at home….I am not a content at home > mom…I go nutty 3-4 hours in a row at home trying to entertain my > daughter..only one section of our house is really baby proof, although big, > that’s where we are "stuck" if we stay at home….other friends are working or > live farther away….Videos entertain her but I hate to have videos on all day, > and I do love to play/read with her, but not hours in a row……. > I’m looking into Kindermusik, activity classes, AND am already in Parents Day > out 2x a week (well my daughter is) and I use this time to work or get > online…. > Am I crazy or just in continous transition..I am not really happy anymore…..I > don’t want to go back to work (we had a nanny and I just don’t want to leave my > baby again for THAT long, a break here in there okay, and I’m burnt out on what > I was doing at work)……A friend of mine says people would "kill" to be in my > shoes….yes, I’ve heard this, and know this..but some of us are not cut out to > be happy and smiling staying home 7 days a week? Do all you stay at home moms > get out with adults alot or do you find contentment at home? If you find > computer is in a room that I can only use when my daughter (17 mos) is napping, > as it’s our "office:, I’m getting desperate and seriously considering finding a > babysitter so I can take a class one day a week to see adults and discuss > things..use my brain again. The daytime hours are the problem, not the > nighttime. I love my family time and really don’t need so much of a "break" at > night, I need a "break" during the day……Anyone in Orlando please > advise…I’m already in Moms Club, and starting another moms group but it will > be sometime before that gets going…..any other groups going that include mom > and tots?? or a program that allows you bring your kids while they are watched > in another room close to you, and you can have "big person time", ie. book > clubs, discussion groups etc?????? > I’m not a stay at home mom  and I’m not a working mom? What am I????? Does > anyone else out there fit this description? I feel like I am the ONLY one AND > that this is a very strange mix of not enjoying staying at home, not enjoying > working (and leaving my child 25 hours a week like I was). > Sanity? Suggestions? Others out there like me?? > Thank you!!! and p.s. any orlando moms email me if you want info on the mom and > tot group, I’ll email you my recent press release and meeting info (sept. 15th, > 7-9pm) > p.p.s. what are good sources to find GREAT, reliable, CPR certified babysitters > besides your friends (my friends have sitters that are REALLY busy already)

Response:

Check out Mothers Centers at www.motherscenter.org Heidi

Response:

You might want to check and see whether there is a local branch of FEMALE (Formerly Employed Mothers at the Leading Edge (or at Loose Ends)). You sound like they might suit you–they’re basically women who have chosen to stay home with their kids, but they’re very open about the fact that its not easy. I joined and have gone to several meetings here, and they’re all very nice. I don’t go often, mostly because I’m not feeling so stressed anymore, and they’re not very close–plus my son is in preschool in the a.m. so I get a break, and that’s when most of their playgroups are scheduled. They have twice-a-month KIDLESS meetings, at least our branch does, and they have a discussion topic each time, then they hit the local coffee house for chat/vent time. Their website is: http://www.femalehome.org/female.htm I just glanced at it, there are seven branches in Florida, but I don’t know the state, so no idea if any are in/around Orlando. Good luck–and there are lots of people out there who don’t think its easy. Try to find the balance that works for you–it may be just some variation of what you’re trying now. Becky – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Could some of you tell me if I’m nuts and what you all suggest. I am in the >category of someone (post professional corporate america drop out, home 3 >months maternity leave, back to work 6 months part time, now staying at home >full time since Jan. 99). >I have had my daughter in a playgroup since 7 weeks, once a week, I can go to >the local wellness center and workout (on my own as most group classes are >later or early to accomodate working people), they have a wonderful nursery >there…I get out at night if I need to (wonderful husband)..but my problem is >….. >I AM MISERABLE 2 or 3 days a week when I am not with friends (1-2 days a week I >can guarantee adult contact, the rest, I’m on my own). >I need 3 things that make staying at home tolerable…..2 of them I have….. >1) Napping daughter (she’s a great sleeper most days) >2) Doing something to use my brain (I started the Orlando chapter of a national >not for profit mom support group…I’m in Orlando so anyone interested email >me) >3) I get alot of adult stimulation…this is the tough one I know alot of >people but…my playgroup friends are all doing there "own" thing, either with >family, other playgroups, or content at home….I am not a content at home >mom…I go nutty 3-4 hours in a row at home trying to entertain my >daughter..only one section of our house is really baby proof, although big, >that’s where we are "stuck" if we stay at home….other friends are working or >live farther away….Videos entertain her but I hate to have videos on all day, >and I do love to play/read with her, but not hours in a row……. >I’m looking into Kindermusik, activity classes, AND am already in Parents Day >out 2x a week (well my daughter is) and I use this time to work or get >online…. >Am I crazy or just in continous transition..I am not really happy anymore…..I >don’t want to go back to work (we had a nanny and I just don’t want to leave my >baby again for THAT long, a break here in there okay, and I’m burnt out on what >I was doing at work)……A friend of mine says people would "kill" to be in my >shoes….yes, I’ve heard this, and know this..but some of us are not cut out to >be happy and smiling staying home 7 days a week? Do all you stay at home moms >get out with adults alot or do you find contentment at home? If you find >computer is in a room that I can only use when my daughter (17 mos) is napping, >as it’s our "office:, I’m getting desperate and seriously considering finding a >babysitter so I can take a class one day a week to see adults and discuss >things..use my brain again. The daytime hours are the problem, not the >nighttime. I love my family time and really don’t need so much of a "break"  at >night, I need a "break" during the day……Anyone in Orlando please >advise…I’m already in Moms Club, and starting another moms group but it will >be sometime before that gets going…..any other groups going that include mom >and tots?? or a program that allows you bring your kids while they are watched >in another room close to you, and you can have "big person time", ie. book >clubs, discussion groups etc?????? >I’m not a stay at home mom  and I’m not a working mom? What am I????? Does >anyone else out there fit this description? I feel like I am the ONLY one AND >that this is a very strange mix of not enjoying staying at home, not enjoying >working (and leaving my child 25 hours a week like I was). >Sanity? Suggestions? Others out there like me?? >Thank you!!! and p.s. any orlando moms email me if you want info on the mom and >tot group, I’ll email you my recent press release and meeting info (sept. 15th, >7-9pm) >p.p.s. what are good sources to find GREAT, reliable, CPR certified babysitters >besides your friends (my friends have sitters that are REALLY busy already)

Response:

Could some of you tell me if I’m nuts and what you all suggest. I am in the category of someone (post professional corporate america drop out, home 3 months maternity leave, back to work 6 months part time, now staying at home full time since Jan. 99). I have had my daughter in a playgroup since 7 weeks, once a week, I can go to the local wellness center and workout (on my own as most group classes are later or early to accomodate working people), they have a wonderful nursery there…I get out at night if I need to (wonderful husband)..but my problem is ….. I AM MISERABLE 2 or 3 days a week when I am not with friends (1-2 days a week I can guarantee adult contact, the rest, I’m on my own). I need 3 things that make staying at home tolerable…..2 of them I have….. 1) Napping daughter (she’s a great sleeper most days) 2) Doing something to use my brain (I started the Orlando chapter of a national not for profit mom support group…I’m in Orlando so anyone interested email me) 3) I get alot of adult stimulation…this is the tough one I know alot of people but…my playgroup friends are all doing there "own" thing, either with family, other playgroups, or content at home….I am not a content at home mom…I go nutty 3-4 hours in a row at home trying to entertain my daughter..only one section of our house is really baby proof, although big, that’s where we are "stuck" if we stay at home….other friends are working or live farther away….Videos entertain her but I hate to have videos on all day, and I do love to play/read with her, but not hours in a row……. I’m looking into Kindermusik, activity classes, AND am already in Parents Day out 2x a week (well my daughter is) and I use this time to work or get online…. Am I crazy or just in continous transition..I am not really happy anymore…..I don’t want to go back to work (we had a nanny and I just don’t want to leave my baby again for THAT long, a break here in there okay, and I’m burnt out on what I was doing at work)……A friend of mine says people would "kill" to be in my shoes….yes, I’ve heard this, and know this..but some of us are not cut out to be happy and smiling staying home 7 days a week? Do all you stay at home moms get out with adults alot or do you find contentment at home? If you find computer is in a room that I can only use when my daughter (17 mos) is napping, as it’s our "office:, I’m getting desperate and seriously considering finding a babysitter so I can take a class one day a week to see adults and discuss things..use my brain again. The daytime hours are the problem, not the nighttime. I love my family time and really don’t need so much of a "break" at night, I need a "break" during the day……Anyone in Orlando please advise…I’m already in Moms Club, and starting another moms group but it will be sometime before that gets going…..any other groups going that include mom and tots?? or a program that allows you bring your kids while they are watched in another room close to you, and you can have "big person time", ie. book clubs, discussion groups etc?????? I’m not a stay at home mom  and I’m not a working mom? What am I????? Does anyone else out there fit this description? I feel like I am the ONLY one AND that this is a very strange mix of not enjoying staying at home, not enjoying working (and leaving my child 25 hours a week like I was). Sanity? Suggestions? Others out there like me?? Thank you!!! and p.s. any orlando moms email me if you want info on the mom and tot group, I’ll email you my recent press release and meeting info (sept. 15th, 7-9pm) p.p.s. what are good sources to find GREAT, reliable, CPR certified babysitters besides your friends (my friends have sitters that are REALLY busy already)

Response: