Pure Parents

Question:

> > Hell, when your high as a kite, you are generally pretty cooperative and > mellow (albeit sometimes paranoid), so his mother’s clueless reaction is > pretty understandable. > How many marijuana abusers have you been around in your life?  They’re > irritable, cranky, rude, and obnoxious, especially when they’re NOT > high.  If you think being high makes you cooperative and mellow, head > for your nearest "alternative school" or juvenile detention facility, > I have some kids I want you to meet. > — Jack Tarkaan

ALL the various features of the personality of pot-smokers are as easily attributable to the beliefs of rebel culture required to violate the society’s strictures against its use and fear and resentment of prosecution. If you can’t separate such variables in your statements you are promoting pure baloney. People often mistake medical statements of ATTENDANT conditions with cause and effect. Steve

Response:

> How many marijuana abusers have you been around in your life?  They’re > irritable, cranky, rude, and obnoxious, especially when they’re NOT > high.  If you think being high makes you cooperative and mellow, head > for your nearest "alternative school" or juvenile detention facility, > I have some kids I want you to meet.

Funny, your experience doesn’t at all match mine. I’ve met many pot abusers, and mostly they are very passive, both when they are high, and worse, when they are not.  As far as I can tell, pot abuse tends to rob people of any ambition to do much of anything.  And they didn’t seem any more cranky than anyone else, either intoxicated or not. Cathy Before you buy.

Response:

Annmarie, I know for a fact you express yourself well with the written word.  Why not write her a letter?  This way you have plenty of time to think about each and every word before it’s expressed, and pick the BEST way to say each thing.  It also solves the problem of being in a public place, or having other people around.  Most letters can be read in private, and if it’s not private when the letter is first read, it can wait until it IS private. It will also give the parent a chance to respond to your letter without losing face.  I would not do it anonymously, (that always strikes me as a bit …cowardly), but include your name and phone number to call if she wants to talk more. She might be in denial, and she might not thank you, or might even be downright hostile. (she might do that anyway) But you will have done your part, and the ball will be in HER court. I commend you for wanting and being willing to do something.  Too many people in this world turn a blind eye, and think it’s not their problem.  When I learned about the Kitty Genovese affair in a Psychology class, I vowed not to be like that.  And I’m proud to say, that even though my first response in possibly bad situations is to do nothing, I’ve consciously made myself do something. (I recently called 911 on my cell phone when I saw there had been a minor car wreck, even though I figured someone had already called, and I was right, according to the dispatcher).  I also caught a baby that fell off a chair, where her stupid mother had placed her.  I figure, life’s too short to worry about getting sued. Cathy Weeks – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ok guys, I have been stewing on this for a while, but not posting because of > the different attitudes to alcohol, so don’t start an anti alcohol flame. > To clarify in NZ, underage drinking in a limited way in a safe environment > is accepted.  You don’t have to agree with this, just believe me that the > culture here is different to the US. > Now to the problem > When my son had his party in early feb, there was an alcohol limit of 3 > beers each (15 and 16 yr olds) remember this is NZ.  There was one child who > brought a bottle of wine, for his own consumption.  This teenager also kept > sneeking off to have a smoke, just tobacco. > I was a bit worried about this kid and mentioned it to one of the parents > who has older children.  This boy according to her daughter has been seen at > other parties, of mostly older kids, getting drunk, smoking dope etc. She > also said that she had tried to talk to the mother but been cut off mid > stream, and said in her opinion the parents are in denial.  I mentioned it > to the class teacher and suggested it would be good if they watched this > boy, that he was headed for trouble. > Since then, I have talked to a teenager that I get on with very well he is > 17 going 18, and said he had seen this boy at parties, as high as a kite, > and there is even talk that he is using acid. > Now to the point.  I bumped into his mum recently in the gallery, and asked > if her son was going to an upcoming party.  Her response just about floored > me.  She said ohh I don’t know, he’s not much of a party goer. Prefers to > stay at home.  It so nice having a teenager that is soooo good, and no > problem. > There was a friend of hers there, or I would have taken the opportunity to > tell her the truth, but just couldn’t bring myself to do that in front of > her friend. > So guys, I am really worried about this kid.  I am very fond of him, have > known him since he was 8, and the parents are nice people, just deluded. > What do you do.  This kid needs help, and his parents are in denial. > Annemarie

Before you buy.

Response:

Try not to take it personally and get upset if the mother does not react well. You are doing the right thing whether she wants to hear it or not – and no one really wants to hear that their child has possibly serious problems. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Thanks everyone for your imput.  I guess I have known all along that I > really have to do something, but I’m being chicken and procrastinating > because I don’t want to.  It will not be easy.  I will report back what > happens. > Thanks > Annemarie

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > How many marijuana abusers have you been around in your life?  They’re > > > irritable, cranky, rude, and obnoxious, especially when they’re NOT > > > high.  If you think being high makes you cooperative and mellow, head > > > for your nearest "alternative school" or juvenile detention facility, > > > I have some kids I want you to meet. > > Funny, your experience doesn’t at all match mine. I’ve met many pot > > abusers, and mostly they are very passive, both when they are high, and > > worse, when they are not.  As far as I can tell, pot abuse tends to rob > > people of any ambition to do much of anything.  And they didn’t seem > > any more cranky than anyone else, either intoxicated or not. > > Cathy > You’re all pointing to features of the PEOPLE who tend to get pointed at > for drug use, NOT the result of the drug use. People who get pointed at > are different in the first place. If they were the same as many others, > or if they were productive they wouldn’t get pointed at. People do drugs > a lot instead of living an interesting life BECAUSE they are: angry, > disturbed, anxiety-ridden, or if they are depressed and lethargic. So > others assume that the drugs cause this, they don’t. Many people who do > drugs look just like you in virtually every way! > Steve > This is probably true in this case anyway, though I think in the long term > marijuana use in teenagers does cause depression, but not in the beginning. > This teenager appears, fairly bright and well behaved, in a way, but there > is something about him that shows, and it is not just the dred locks.  I > have seen other teenagers that are a bit older though, and the further they > get into the drug seen, and the more dependant they become on the drugs, the > more they withdraw and become moody etc.  JMO > Annemarie

It’s been noted many times now that all the particular "signs and symptoms" of drug use are every bit as applicable to the features of people’s lives which might cause them to wish to either use drugs or to be a member of a disaffected minority, AND that it is quite impossible really to distinguish which is really cause and which is really effect. The failure to distinguish this has been a sad feature of the "war on drugs" from the very beginning, and little truth is available. The key feature of the war on drugs is that in every decade whatever is regarded as the hallmark of a social undesirability has been blamed on drugs. This suggests that the goverment thinks that fixed drugs have changing effects in each different decade, which is lunacy. Steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > How many marijuana abusers have you been around in your life?  They’re > > irritable, cranky, rude, and obnoxious, especially when they’re NOT > > high.  If you think being high makes you cooperative and mellow, head > > for your nearest "alternative school" or juvenile detention facility, > > I have some kids I want you to meet. > Funny, your experience doesn’t at all match mine. I’ve met many pot > abusers, and mostly they are very passive, both when they are high, and > worse, when they are not.  As far as I can tell, pot abuse tends to rob > people of any ambition to do much of anything.  And they didn’t seem > any more cranky than anyone else, either intoxicated or not. > Cathy > You’re all pointing to features of the PEOPLE who tend to get pointed at > for drug use, NOT the result of the drug use. People who get pointed at > are different in the first place. If they were the same as many others, > or if they were productive they wouldn’t get pointed at. People do drugs > a lot instead of living an interesting life BECAUSE they are: angry, > disturbed, anxiety-ridden, or if they are depressed and lethargic. So > others assume that the drugs cause this, they don’t. Many people who do > drugs look just like you in virtually every way! > Steve

This is probably true in this case anyway, though I think in the long term marijuana use in teenagers does cause depression, but not in the beginning. This teenager appears, fairly bright and well behaved, in a way, but there is something about him that shows, and it is not just the dred locks.  I have seen other teenagers that are a bit older though, and the further they get into the drug seen, and the more dependant they become on the drugs, the more they withdraw and become moody etc.  JMO Annemarie

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Ok guys, I have been stewing on this for a while, but not posting because of >the different attitudes to alcohol, so don’t start an anti alcohol flame. >To clarify in NZ, underage drinking in a limited way in a safe environment >is accepted.  You don’t have to agree with this, just believe me that the >culture here is different to the US. >Now to the problem >When my son had his party in early feb, there was an alcohol limit of 3 >beers each (15 and 16 yr olds) remember this is NZ.  There was one child who >brought a bottle of wine, for his own consumption.  This teenager also kept >sneeking off to have a smoke, just tobacco. >I was a bit worried about this kid and mentioned it to one of the parents >who has older children.  This boy according to her daughter has been seen at >other parties, of mostly older kids, getting drunk, smoking dope etc. >She >also said that she had tried to talk to the mother but been cut off mid >stream, and said in her opinion the parents are in denial.  I mentioned it >to the class teacher and suggested it would be good if they watched this >boy, that he was headed for trouble. >Since then, I have talked to a teenager that I get on with very well he is >17 going 18, and said he had seen this boy at parties, as high as a kite, >and there is even talk that he is using acid. >Now to the point.  I bumped into his mum recently in the gallery, and asked >if her son was going to an upcoming party.  Her response just about floored >me.  She said ohh I don’t know, he’s not much of a party goer.  Prefers to >stay at home.  It so nice having a teenager that is soooo good, and no >problem. >There was a friend of hers there, or I would have taken the opportunity to >tell her the truth, but just couldn’t bring myself to do that in front of >her friend. >So guys, I am really worried about this kid.  I am very fond of him, have >known him since he was 8, and the parents are nice people, just deluded. >What do you do.  This kid needs help, and his parents are in denial.

They may have to figure it out for themselves but if you know for a fact that he parties often and in this way it might be a good idea to tell his parents. They may brush you off but it’ll be in their minds, hopefully, the next time he exibits the signs. As for the party, if you have another one and he comes you can make it clear to him that he goes by your rules or he doesn’t stay.  I’m not sure what the differences in the law are where I am (the States) but I’ve been to parties as a teen where the parents of a friend were hosting and alcohol was served. They were careful too but they were also responsible for the kids as they left.  If anyone had gotten into an accident because of alcohol, they would have been liable.  If that’s the case in NZ you can use that to make him realize he needs to play by the rules or leave.   But I think 3 beers a kids is reasonable as long as the parents all know about it.  Personally I’d limit it to 2 but I don’t know the strength of your beers Good luck, Kendra ~*~*~*~ Love is blind, but marriage is an eye opener.

Response:

Thanks everyone for your imput.  I guess I have known all along that I really have to do something, but I’m being chicken and procrastinating because I don’t want to.  It will not be easy.  I will report back what happens. Thanks Annemarie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Consider inviting the mother for coffee or tea and tell her in private > when there aren’t a lot of other people around. BUT be prepared for > denial and possibly anger. Even if you are pretty sure that will be her > response, I still think you should tell her. Perhaps some of this > behavior is the kid crying our for attention and she is ignoring him.

Response:

I agree with these ideas and also suggest that you have on hand [or in the letter] a brochure type thing that describes the typical behavior of someone who is using pot and other substances to excess.  Even if the parents don’t listen to you right off they might just keep that, read it, and start seeing things for themselves.  Worth a shot, anyway. -Aula

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I think the suggestions you have received about either telling her in > person, in private…or sending a letter are both good ideas. > I have no idea what kind of rehabilitation services are available in NZ, but > here there are nationwide parent support services.  If you can give her a > number or a pamplet, I think that would come in handy. > Sarah wrote > > I recently ran a substance abuse workshop in one of the local > > school districts for parents of middle and high school kids and > > this exact question came up. One of the other parents had this > > suggestion which I thought was excellent. She said that if it > > happened to her she would tell the other parent for a couple of > > reasons. First, parents should stick together and even if the > > parent is in denial, at least you have to try. The second reason > > she’d tell the parent had to do with her own son. She wanted to > > let him know that she worried about his friends and that even if > > he was upset that she was "ratting his friend out" the message > > would be that "I wouldn’t want your friend dead from an > > overdose, and I would want another parent to tell me if it was > > happening to you."  On a different note, Annemarie, If you know > > it, I’m curious what the rate of alcohol abuse is in NZ compared > > to US. Just wondering if the more lenient drinking policy is > > better or worse, statistically > > Susan > > http://havinganotherbaby.com > > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion > Network > * > > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free! > Alcohol.  I think it is getting better, certainly our drink driving > statistics are going down very well.  I don’t really know how bad it is in > the US so, really I can only comment on what is happening here. > Personally > I believe that making alcohol a big bad thing that has to be hidden only > makes it worse.  You know history has proved prohibition doesn’t work. > Marijuana on the other hand worries me more.  There is a move to have it > legalized here and I have a problem with that.  I think its all dandy and > fine for adults, but for teenages,  who are probably the biggest users, it > is not fine and dandy.  There have been many studies that link it with > developmental problems, when teens use it. > Complicated issue.  Thanks for the feedback. > Annemarie

Response:

Wrong end of the stick Elaine.  This is a kid who is in the same class as my son, and I like the kid heaps, remember how cute he was when I first met him when he was about eight.  My son does not ‘hang with him’ at all, he  would not be concidered any where near cool enough for this kid anyway.  I just want to help a kid going in the wrong direction, simply for his own sake. Annemarie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> right off hand, I’d have to say that it’s generally a bad idea to hang with > a substance abuser. > We tend to become like our associates.  It would be a good lesson if you > brought this up, and discussed the situation in so many words. > It’s not so much that you dislike the kid, but more that people like this > boy are inappropriate companions. >Ok guys, I have been stewing on this for a while, but not posting because > of >the different attitudes to alcohol, so don’t start an anti alcohol flame. >To clarify in NZ, underage drinking in a limited way in a safe environment >is accepted.  You don’t have to agree with this, just believe me that the >culture here is different to the US. >Now to the problem >When my son had his party in early feb, there was an alcohol limit of 3 >beers each (15 and 16 yr olds) remember this is NZ.  There was one child > who >brought a bottle of wine, for his own consumption.  This teenager also kept >sneeking off to have a smoke, just tobacco. >I was a bit worried about this kid and mentioned it to one of the parents >who has older children.  This boy according to her daughter has been seen > at >other parties, of mostly older kids, getting drunk, smoking dope etc. She >also said that she had tried to talk to the mother but been cut off mid >stream, and said in her opinion the parents are in denial.  I mentioned it >to the class teacher and suggested it would be good if they watched this >boy, that he was headed for trouble. >Since then, I have talked to a teenager that I get on with very well he is >17 going 18, and said he had seen this boy at parties, as high as a kite, >and there is even talk that he is using acid. >Now to the point.  I bumped into his mum recently in the gallery, and asked >if her son was going to an upcoming party.  Her response just about floored >me.  She said ohh I don’t know, he’s not much of a party goer.  Prefers to >stay at home.  It so nice having a teenager that is soooo good, and no >problem. >There was a friend of hers there, or I would have taken the opportunity to >tell her the truth, but just couldn’t bring myself to do that in front of >her friend. >So guys, I am really worried about this kid.  I am very fond of him, have >known him since he was 8, and the parents are nice people, just deluded. >What do you do.  This kid needs help, and his parents are in denial. >Annemarie

Response:

Annemarie, Cathy’s idea to write a letter is really excellent, you should really consider it. Certainly, based on your experience with not getting involved, you’d feel so much better if you did something. Try not to pressure yourself to fix the problem though, because all you can do is tell the mom, after that it’s in her court, no matter how involved you get. Lots of luck to you. Susan http://havinganotherbaby.com * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Thanks Cathy, that may be a solution.  In NZ getting sued is not a problem, it doesn’t happen much, but being abused is still a possibility and not a very pleasant one. I have learnt in my life that it is best to interfere at times.  Once, when I was worried about how a new Mum up the road was coping, I called the nursing care authority here, anyway turns out she had post natal depression, and was caught just in time before something terrible happened. I have also learnt the hard way.  A friend (not a close friend, for me anyway) told me that her husband hit her.  I did NOTHING, and a year down the track he killed her then himself.  Nobody else knew that he was violent, not even his best friend, and his best friend was a close friend of ours. I still carry that guilt.  So life has taught me, to get involved even when I don’t want to. Annemarie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Annmarie, > I know for a fact you express yourself well with the written word.  Why > not write her a letter?  This way you have plenty of time to think > about each and every word before it’s expressed, and pick the BEST way > to say each thing.  It also solves the problem of being in a public > place, or having other people around.  Most letters can be read in > private, and if it’s not private when the letter is first read, it can > wait until it IS private. > It will also give the parent a chance to respond to your letter without > losing face.  I would not do it anonymously, (that always strikes me as > a bit …cowardly), but include your name and phone number to call if > she wants to talk more. > She might be in denial, and she might not thank you, or might even be > downright hostile. (she might do that anyway) But you will have done > your part, and the ball will be in HER court. > I commend you for wanting and being willing to do something.  Too many > people in this world turn a blind eye, and think it’s not their > problem.  When I learned about the Kitty Genovese affair in a > Psychology class, I vowed not to be like that.  And I’m proud to say, > that even though my first response in possibly bad situations is to do > nothing, I’ve consciously made myself do something. (I recently called > 911 on my cell phone when I saw there had been a minor car wreck, even > though I figured someone had already called, and I was right, according > to the dispatcher).  I also caught a baby that fell off a chair, where > her stupid mother had placed her.  I figure, life’s too short to worry > about getting sued. > Cathy Weeks > Ok guys, I have been stewing on this for a while, but not posting > because of > the different attitudes to alcohol, so don’t start an anti alcohol > flame. > To clarify in NZ, underage drinking in a limited way in a safe > environment > is accepted.  You don’t have to agree with this, just believe me that > the > culture here is different to the US. > Now to the problem > When my son had his party in early feb, there was an alcohol limit of > 3 > beers each (15 and 16 yr olds) remember this is NZ.  There was one > child who > brought a bottle of wine, for his own consumption.  This teenager > also kept > sneeking off to have a smoke, just tobacco. > I was a bit worried about this kid and mentioned it to one of the > parents > who has older children.  This boy according to her daughter has been > seen at > other parties, of mostly older kids, getting drunk, smoking dope etc. > She > also said that she had tried to talk to the mother but been cut off > mid > stream, and said in her opinion the parents are in denial.  I > mentioned it > to the class teacher and suggested it would be good if they watched > this > boy, that he was headed for trouble. > Since then, I have talked to a teenager that I get on with very well > he is > 17 going 18, and said he had seen this boy at parties, as high as a > kite, > and there is even talk that he is using acid. > Now to the point.  I bumped into his mum recently in the gallery, and > asked > if her son was going to an upcoming party.  Her response just about > floored > me.  She said ohh I don’t know, he’s not much of a party goer. > Prefers to > stay at home.  It so nice having a teenager that is soooo good, and no > problem. > There was a friend of hers there, or I would have taken the > opportunity to > tell her the truth, but just couldn’t bring myself to do that in > front of > her friend. > So guys, I am really worried about this kid.  I am very fond of him, > have > known him since he was 8, and the parents are nice people, just > deluded. > What do you do.  This kid needs help, and his parents are in denial. > Annemarie > Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> How many marijuana abusers have you been around in your life?  They’re > irritable, cranky, rude, and obnoxious, especially when they’re NOT > high.  If you think being high makes you cooperative and mellow, head > for your nearest "alternative school" or juvenile detention facility, > I have some kids I want you to meet. > Funny, your experience doesn’t at all match mine. I’ve met many pot > abusers, and mostly they are very passive, both when they are high, and > worse, when they are not.  As far as I can tell, pot abuse tends to rob > people of any ambition to do much of anything.  And they didn’t seem > any more cranky than anyone else, either intoxicated or not. > Cathy

You’re all pointing to features of the PEOPLE who tend to get pointed at for drug use, NOT the result of the drug use. People who get pointed at are different in the first place. If they were the same as many others, or if they were productive they wouldn’t get pointed at. People do drugs a lot instead of living an interesting life BECAUSE they are: angry, disturbed, anxiety-ridden, or if they are depressed and lethargic. So others assume that the drugs cause this, they don’t. Many people who do drugs look just like you in virtually every way! Steve

Response:

Consider inviting the mother for coffee or tea and tell her in private when there aren’t a lot of other people around. BUT be prepared for denial and possibly anger. Even if you are pretty sure that will be her response, I still think you should tell her. Perhaps some of this behavior is the kid crying our for attention and she is ignoring him.

Response:

I think the suggestions you have received about either telling her in person, in private…or sending a letter are both good ideas. I have no idea what kind of rehabilitation services are available in NZ, but here there are nationwide parent support services.  If you can give her a number or a pamplet, I think that would come in handy. Sarah

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I recently ran a substance abuse workshop in one of the local > school districts for parents of middle and high school kids and > this exact question came up. One of the other parents had this > suggestion which I thought was excellent. She said that if it > happened to her she would tell the other parent for a couple of > reasons. First, parents should stick together and even if the > parent is in denial, at least you have to try. The second reason > she’d tell the parent had to do with her own son. She wanted to > let him know that she worried about his friends and that even if > he was upset that she was "ratting his friend out" the message > would be that "I wouldn’t want your friend dead from an > overdose, and I would want another parent to tell me if it was > happening to you."  On a different note, Annemarie, If you know > it, I’m curious what the rate of alcohol abuse is in NZ compared > to US. Just wondering if the more lenient drinking policy is > better or worse, statistically > Susan > http://havinganotherbaby.com > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network > * > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free! > Alcohol.  I think it is getting better, certainly our drink driving > statistics are going down very well.  I don’t really know how bad it is in > the US so, really I can only comment on what is happening here. Personally > I believe that making alcohol a big bad thing that has to be hidden only > makes it worse.  You know history has proved prohibition doesn’t work. > Marijuana on the other hand worries me more.  There is a move to have it > legalized here and I have a problem with that.  I think its all dandy and > fine for adults, but for teenages,  who are probably the biggest users, it > is not fine and dandy.  There have been many studies that link it with > developmental problems, when teens use it. > Complicated issue.  Thanks for the feedback. > Annemarie

Response:

>There was a friend of hers there, or I would have taken the opportunity to >tell her the truth, but just couldn’t bring myself to do that in front of >her friend. >So guys, I am really worried about this kid.  I am very fond of him, have >known him since he was 8, and the parents are nice people, just deluded. >What do you do.  This kid needs help, and his parents are in denial.

I’d tell the parents…….either in a letter (my first choice) or in person. Who knows how they’ll respond? You’ll have done your part though…….and that’s all anyone can really do. I know I’d want to know if it were my child…….and I’d be grateful to whoever told me of such. JMO Josie

Response:

right off hand, I’d have to say that it’s generally a bad idea to hang with a substance abuser. We tend to become like our associates.  It would be a good lesson if you brought this up, and discussed the situation in so many words. It’s not so much that you dislike the kid, but more that people like this boy are inappropriate companions. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Ok guys, I have been stewing on this for a while, but not posting because of >the different attitudes to alcohol, so don’t start an anti alcohol flame. >To clarify in NZ, underage drinking in a limited way in a safe environment >is accepted.  You don’t have to agree with this, just believe me that the >culture here is different to the US. >Now to the problem >When my son had his party in early feb, there was an alcohol limit of 3 >beers each (15 and 16 yr olds) remember this is NZ.  There was one child who >brought a bottle of wine, for his own consumption.  This teenager also kept >sneeking off to have a smoke, just tobacco. >I was a bit worried about this kid and mentioned it to one of the parents >who has older children.  This boy according to her daughter has been seen at >other parties, of mostly older kids, getting drunk, smoking dope etc. She >also said that she had tried to talk to the mother but been cut off mid >stream, and said in her opinion the parents are in denial.  I mentioned it >to the class teacher and suggested it would be good if they watched this >boy, that he was headed for trouble. >Since then, I have talked to a teenager that I get on with very well he is >17 going 18, and said he had seen this boy at parties, as high as a kite, >and there is even talk that he is using acid. >Now to the point.  I bumped into his mum recently in the gallery, and asked >if her son was going to an upcoming party.  Her response just about floored >me.  She said ohh I don’t know, he’s not much of a party goer.  Prefers to >stay at home.  It so nice having a teenager that is soooo good, and no >problem. >There was a friend of hers there, or I would have taken the opportunity to >tell her the truth, but just couldn’t bring myself to do that in front of >her friend. >So guys, I am really worried about this kid.  I am very fond of him, have >known him since he was 8, and the parents are nice people, just deluded. >What do you do.  This kid needs help, and his parents are in denial. >Annemarie

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ok guys, I have been stewing on this for a while, but not posting because > of > the different attitudes to alcohol, so don’t start an anti alcohol flame. > To clarify in NZ, underage drinking in a limited way in a safe environment > is accepted.  You don’t have to agree with this, just believe me that the > culture here is different to the US. > Now to the problem > When my son had his party in early feb, there was an alcohol limit of 3 > beers each (15 and 16 yr olds) remember this is NZ.  There was one child > who > brought a bottle of wine, for his own consumption.  This teenager also > kept > sneeking off to have a smoke, just tobacco. > I was a bit worried about this kid and mentioned it to one of the parents > who has older children.  This boy according to her daughter has been seen > at > other parties, of mostly older kids, getting drunk, smoking dope etc. She > also said that she had tried to talk to the mother but been cut off mid > stream, and said in her opinion the parents are in denial.  I mentioned it > to the class teacher and suggested it would be good if they watched this > boy, that he was headed for trouble. > Since then, I have talked to a teenager that I get on with very well he is > 17 going 18, and said he had seen this boy at parties, as high as a kite, > and there is even talk that he is using acid. > Now to the point.  I bumped into his mum recently in the gallery, and > asked > if her son was going to an upcoming party.  Her response just about > floored > me.  She said ohh I don’t know, he’s not much of a party goer.  Prefers to > stay at home.  It so nice having a teenager that is soooo good, and no > problem. > Hell, when your high as a kite, you are generally pretty cooperative and > mellow (albeit sometimes paranoid), so his mother’s clueless reaction is > pretty understandable. > There was a friend of hers there, or I would have taken the opportunity to > tell her the truth, but just couldn’t bring myself to do that in front of > her friend. > So guys, I am really worried about this kid.  I am very fond of him, have > known him since he was 8, and the parents are nice people, just deluded. > What do you do.  This kid needs help, and his parents are in denial. > Annemarie > Denial is the nature of the beast and till you get past it, there is very > little to be done.  It is an extremely difficult position to be in. > When I was 16, my best friend’s dad came over and spoke to my parents about > his second-hand knowledge of knowing that  me and his daughter had been > getting high together.  The Parental Units were pretty quick to kick him out > the door.  A few weeks later my Dad found a notebook of mine in the back of > his car with my flourishing handwriting’s of ‘I am trippin’ sooooo hard’ > kind of thing.  Even that didn’t get him to clue in. > Sad to say that for the majority of users, they have to hit their own > personal bad place to even acknowledge that there is a problem and it’s > pretty much the same for parents of users as well.  My parent’s denial hit a > stand-still when I called them collect from Los Angeles to inform them of my > whereabouts.  Having their daughter 600 miles away in an extremely dangerous > town, at 16 years of age, was finally enough to get them to open their eyes. > The good news is that when I had been clean for a year, I had a great party > to celebrate and the Dad that originally told my parents about me was > invited and appologized to. > If you are pretty confidant of your sources, I don’t see any harm sharing > your concerns with his parents.  It might cause friction but at least you > have planted a seed that there could be a problem that they need to face. > Planting seeds in this particular subject is about the only options we have > and we have to leave the germation of them to the person we gave ‘em to. > Hope that helps a little. > Sarah > Mom to Kalen (8) and Victoria (5 months)

Thanks Sarah, I guess I know I’m gonna have to do something, any ideas on how to go about it.  I’m sort of dreading this, yet feel I have to something. Annemarie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Smoked it to deal with folks like you Jack, when I was a kid….*S* Sarah

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hell, when your high as a kite, you are generally pretty cooperative and > mellow (albeit sometimes paranoid), so his mother’s clueless reaction is > pretty understandable. > How many marijuana abusers have you been around in your life?  They’re > irritable, cranky, rude, and obnoxious, especially when they’re NOT > high.  If you think being high makes you cooperative and mellow, head > for your nearest "alternative school" or juvenile detention facility, > I have some kids I want you to meet. > — Jack Tarkaan                                      Kalamazoo, Michigan > — NO UNSOLICITED E-MAIL AT THIS ADDRESS – Respect privacy – NO SPAM!!!!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I recently ran a substance abuse workshop in one of the local > school districts for parents of middle and high school kids and > this exact question came up. One of the other parents had this > suggestion which I thought was excellent. She said that if it > happened to her she would tell the other parent for a couple of > reasons. First, parents should stick together and even if the > parent is in denial, at least you have to try. The second reason > she’d tell the parent had to do with her own son. She wanted to > let him know that she worried about his friends and that even if > he was upset that she was "ratting his friend out" the message > would be that "I wouldn’t want your friend dead from an > overdose, and I would want another parent to tell me if it was > happening to you."  On a different note, Annemarie, If you know > it, I’m curious what the rate of alcohol abuse is in NZ compared > to US. Just wondering if the more lenient drinking policy is > better or worse, statistically > Susan > http://havinganotherbaby.com > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Alcohol.  I think it is getting better, certainly our drink driving statistics are going down very well.  I don’t really know how bad it is in the US so, really I can only comment on what is happening here.  Personally I believe that making alcohol a big bad thing that has to be hidden only makes it worse.  You know history has proved prohibition doesn’t work. Marijuana on the other hand worries me more.  There is a move to have it legalized here and I have a problem with that.  I think its all dandy and fine for adults, but for teenages,  who are probably the biggest users, it is not fine and dandy.  There have been many studies that link it with developmental problems, when teens use it. Complicated issue.  Thanks for the feedback. Annemarie

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ok guys, I have been stewing on this for a while, but not posting because of > the different attitudes to alcohol, so don’t start an anti alcohol flame. > To clarify in NZ, underage drinking in a limited way in a safe environment > is accepted.  You don’t have to agree with this, just believe me that the > culture here is different to the US. > Now to the problem > When my son had his party in early feb, there was an alcohol limit of 3 > beers each (15 and 16 yr olds) remember this is NZ.  There was one child who > brought a bottle of wine, for his own consumption.  This teenager also kept > sneeking off to have a smoke, just tobacco. > I was a bit worried about this kid and mentioned it to one of the parents > who has older children.  This boy according to her daughter has been seen at > other parties, of mostly older kids, getting drunk, smoking dope etc. She > also said that she had tried to talk to the mother but been cut off mid > stream, and said in her opinion the parents are in denial.  I mentioned it > to the class teacher and suggested it would be good if they watched this > boy, that he was headed for trouble. > Since then, I have talked to a teenager that I get on with very well he is > 17 going 18, and said he had seen this boy at parties, as high as a kite, > and there is even talk that he is using acid. > Now to the point.  I bumped into his mum recently in the gallery, and asked > if her son was going to an upcoming party.  Her response just about floored > me.  She said ohh I don’t know, he’s not much of a party goer.  Prefers to > stay at home.  It so nice having a teenager that is soooo good, and no > problem.

Hell, when your high as a kite, you are generally pretty cooperative and mellow (albeit sometimes paranoid), so his mother’s clueless reaction is pretty understandable. > There was a friend of hers there, or I would have taken the opportunity to > tell her the truth, but just couldn’t bring myself to do that in front of > her friend. > So guys, I am really worried about this kid.  I am very fond of him, have > known him since he was 8, and the parents are nice people, just deluded. > What do you do.  This kid needs help, and his parents are in denial. > Annemarie

Denial is the nature of the beast and till you get past it, there is very little to be done.  It is an extremely difficult position to be in. When I was 16, my best friend’s dad came over and spoke to my parents about his second-hand knowledge of knowing that  me and his daughter had been getting high together.  The Parental Units were pretty quick to kick him out the door.  A few weeks later my Dad found a notebook of mine in the back of his car with my flourishing handwriting’s of ‘I am trippin’ sooooo hard’ kind of thing.  Even that didn’t get him to clue in. Sad to say that for the majority of users, they have to hit their own personal bad place to even acknowledge that there is a problem and it’s pretty much the same for parents of users as well.  My parent’s denial hit a stand-still when I called them collect from Los Angeles to inform them of my whereabouts.  Having their daughter 600 miles away in an extremely dangerous town, at 16 years of age, was finally enough to get them to open their eyes. The good news is that when I had been clean for a year, I had a great party to celebrate and the Dad that originally told my parents about me was invited and appologized to. If you are pretty confidant of your sources, I don’t see any harm sharing your concerns with his parents.  It might cause friction but at least you have planted a seed that there could be a problem that they need to face. Planting seeds in this particular subject is about the only options we have and we have to leave the germation of them to the person we gave ‘em to. Hope that helps a little. Sarah Mom to Kalen (8) and Victoria (5 months)

Response:

Ok guys, I have been stewing on this for a while, but not posting because of the different attitudes to alcohol, so don’t start an anti alcohol flame. To clarify in NZ, underage drinking in a limited way in a safe environment is accepted.  You don’t have to agree with this, just believe me that the culture here is different to the US. Now to the problem When my son had his party in early feb, there was an alcohol limit of 3 beers each (15 and 16 yr olds) remember this is NZ.  There was one child who brought a bottle of wine, for his own consumption.  This teenager also kept sneeking off to have a smoke, just tobacco. I was a bit worried about this kid and mentioned it to one of the parents who has older children.  This boy according to her daughter has been seen at other parties, of mostly older kids, getting drunk, smoking dope etc. She also said that she had tried to talk to the mother but been cut off mid stream, and said in her opinion the parents are in denial.  I mentioned it to the class teacher and suggested it would be good if they watched this boy, that he was headed for trouble. Since then, I have talked to a teenager that I get on with very well he is 17 going 18, and said he had seen this boy at parties, as high as a kite, and there is even talk that he is using acid. Now to the point.  I bumped into his mum recently in the gallery, and asked if her son was going to an upcoming party.  Her response just about floored me.  She said ohh I don’t know, he’s not much of a party goer.  Prefers to stay at home.  It so nice having a teenager that is soooo good, and no problem. There was a friend of hers there, or I would have taken the opportunity to tell her the truth, but just couldn’t bring myself to do that in front of her friend. So guys, I am really worried about this kid.  I am very fond of him, have known him since he was 8, and the parents are nice people, just deluded. What do you do.  This kid needs help, and his parents are in denial. Annemarie

Response:

I recently ran a substance abuse workshop in one of the local school districts for parents of middle and high school kids and this exact question came up. One of the other parents had this suggestion which I thought was excellent. She said that if it happened to her she would tell the other parent for a couple of reasons. First, parents should stick together and even if the parent is in denial, at least you have to try. The second reason she’d tell the parent had to do with her own son. She wanted to let him know that she worried about his friends and that even if he was upset that she was "ratting his friend out" the message would be that "I wouldn’t want your friend dead from an overdose, and I would want another parent to tell me if it was happening to you."  On a different note, Annemarie, If you know it, I’m curious what the rate of alcohol abuse is in NZ compared to US. Just wondering if the more lenient drinking policy is better or worse, statistically Susan http://havinganotherbaby.com * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

> Hell, when your high as a kite, you are generally pretty cooperative and > mellow (albeit sometimes paranoid), so his mother’s clueless reaction is > pretty understandable.

How many marijuana abusers have you been around in your life?  They’re irritable, cranky, rude, and obnoxious, especially when they’re NOT high.  If you think being high makes you cooperative and mellow, head for your nearest "alternative school" or juvenile detention facility, I have some kids I want you to meet. — Jack Tarkaan                                      Kalamazoo, Michigan — NO UNSOLICITED E-MAIL AT THIS ADDRESS – Respect privacy – NO SPAM!!!!

Response: