Top GOP Staffer Forced Out for Role in Page Scandal Brian Ross and Rhonda Schwartz (ABC News) The chief of staff for Republican Congressman Tom Reynolds, Kirk Fordham, resigned after questions were raised about his role in the handling of the congressional page scandal, according to Republican   sources on Capitol Hill. Those sources said Fordham, a former chief of staff for Congressman Mark Foley, had urged Republican leaders last spring not to raise questionable Foley e-mails with the full Congressional Page Board, made up of two Republicans and a Democrat. "He begged them not to tell the page board," said one of the Republican sources. People familiar with Fordham’s side of the story, however, said Fordham was being used as a scapegoat by Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert. They said Fordham had repeatedly warned Hastert’s staff about Foley’s "problem" with pages, but little was done. The complaint about Foley was brought to the chairman of the page board, Congressman John Shimkus (R-IL), last spring, and he then consulted with the Clerk of the House of Representatives, Jeff Trandahl. At Fordham’s urging, according to the sources, the matter was not given to the full board, and  instead Congressman Foley was privately approached and told to stop all contact with the page he had been e-mailing. "This is something we should have been aware of, and we weren’t, and I’m very unhappy about that," said Congresswoman Shelley Moore Capito (R-WV), who also serves on the page board. The Democrat on the page board, Congressman Dale Kildee (D-MI), said it was "unprecedented" to have handled the matter without informing the board members.

Response:

Yes & why do you think the page board was not notified?  3 guesses & the 1st two don’t count I love how these right-wingers are trying to blame this on the Democrat’s.  I love how Drudge tries to blame this on the young boy’s. Republicans = slime balls. Mr Soul

Response:

A Quiz For Stupid People by Hunter Here’s a little pop quiz, in terms of current events. Given the following three situations: 1) A married man having an affair with a younger woman. 2) Two middle aged women in New Jersey who love each other and want to spend the rest of their lives as partners. 3) A child sex predator who engages in online sex with children, asks for photos of them and their friends, and attempts to arrange in-person sexual meetings with them, with the assistance of a group of men who attempted to cover it up. See if you can figure out which of those belongs in which of these categories: a) Straight b) Gay c) A child sex predator who engages in online sex with children, asks for photos of them and their friends, and attempts to arrange in-person sexual meetings with them, with the assistance of a group of men who attempted to cover it up. Go slow, here — If you’re a conservative visiting from elsewhere, take your time. This may be the first time in your life you’ve faced this question, and I don’t want to get sued for causing an embolism or making people have nervous breakdowns or something. No hurry. OK, got it? Great! Now for the next question. If you were the kind of person so mindnumbingly, star-spangledly stupid — say, a head injury victim, or a victim of this country’s tragic lead-based paint legacy — that you can manage to get the answer to that Child Sex Predator question wrong, would you most likely be: 1) A prominent anchor for Fox News. 2) A torture-supporting prominent conservative commenter just back from a Viagra-using trip to a Caribbean country known for easy tourist access to male and female child prostitutes. 3) A self proclaimed guardian of "moral values" who wrote in his parenting book that fathers should take showers with their young children so the young boys could admire the size and thickness of their father’s penis. Yeah, that one was a bit of a trick. The answer is "all of the above". Note to the few shattered remnants of "moral" America trying to once again launch into faux-moral hatefests against everyone around them rather than face the substance of anything resembling the actual issue here: if you don’t know the difference between straight, gay, and child sex predator — you don’t get a voice in the debate. We don’t have to pay attention to what you think of as "moral" any more, because you clearly can’t figure it out for yourself. Oh: but I’ll hereby invite Brit Hume, Rush Limbaugh, and James Dobson to kindly stay far the hell away from our kids, because if you can’t determine any substantial moral differences between a straight American having an affair, a gay American who has the mere audacity to exist, and an internet sex predator preying on children, I’m thinking your own sexual boundary lines aren’t as well-drawn as I’d like to see among middle-aged and elderly men. Just. Frigging. Saying.

Response:

> I just wanted to thank everyone for the comments and personal relations to > this particular problem. > I’m not sure what happened.

I am. > It might have been when I pulled him out of the > pool last week and told him we weren’t going anymore if he wasn’t going to > even try that gave him the right kick in the ass

Nope. He did what he did because of human developmental imperatives. You damn near blew it for him. Shows you how hardy human beings really are when they can overcome the ignorance of their parents. > or if he came about this > on his own (Personally I think it was the latter)

One point for you. Now try to figure out why, as he, like all kids, has a great many more of these kinds of challenges ahead of him and if you keep berating and threatening you are going to wind up with a very angry hostile teen that will make our life hell, as you deserve, if you don’t drag out those child development books and learn what is really happening. You are so far, by your remarks, from knowing what you need to know it’s embarassing to read your post. > but he has been doing > *way* more than excellent this week.  He’s dunking, front-floating, > listening and most importantly, he’s *trying* to learn.

Who knows, maybe the instructor has had some good interpersonal skills training along with child development knowledge (if he or she is trained in recreation chances are). When you finally got out of the way the instructor could work using those skills. He or she probably got that you’d lose it when hearing the instructor validate the child’s very real fears (they disapate quickly when you acknowledge them, the take root when you try to deny them). > I could give two shits if couldn’t swim yet, it was the total lack of even > trying

Excuse me. Was he or was he not in the water all that time? He WAS TRYING the best he could under the circumstances of his fear. You damn near blew it for him. Tough brave kid and you are calling him a coward and sluggard. Gee, how supportive. > and the whining

Whining is usually a learned behavior…guess who he got it from? > about it all that was upsetting my wife and I so.

Next time tell him to tell you in a normal voice what his fears are and validate every single one, even if you don’t believe him. They’ll desolve as though they didn’t ever exist. Here, try this, "Boy, Billy it sure is scary after having fallen in the water, to get back in again." then shut up…no other words, nothing. No sympathy, no advice, no humoring, just a kindly encouraging smile, and you’ll have a tiger on your hands. This kid has already proved braver and tougher than you and your wife with you "upsetting my wife and I so" bull. It isn’t a child’s business to calm his parents. It’s theirs to calm and encourage the child, no matter how much you dislike what he is doing. > This week, however, is a complete turnaround. > In yesterday’s class he managed to front-float.  I haven’t seen him this > proud of himself in ages.  Of course, both my wife and I congradulated him > and told him how proud we were.  He’s still beaming about it!

Tough kid. I admire him greatly. He overcame YOU and his fear. I’ll bet the instructor had something to do with it. > At any rate, thank you all for your responses.  I wish I knew what helped, > but I suppose that in the long run all that matters is that his confidence > is there and he realizes that we just want him to try.

No, that is definately not "all the matters". What matters is that you don’t pursue this course when his next life challenge comes up and there is no trained instructor to pull your ass out of the fire you are going to get. Get a damn child development book. Red cross has them. Any decent college library has them…psych section usually. Read it. Learn. Children are not a bit like what we think they are. There isn’t an ounce of evil intent, or cowardice, or any other of your bullshit in them. They are in reaction to their development and what creates difficult teens (and younger) is ignorant parents. Try a good parenting book. PET, Tom Gordon, is a basic primer in how to actually parent to the child’s strengths and real needs and builds stronger bonds between parent and child. > Regards,

Regards to you. Don’t let my rant bother you. I just want to make sure to wake up yet another ignorant (no offense intended) parent before yet another child gets burned on his or her development needs. > Andrew

Kane

Response:

> It would be a great idea if you went to the local college and took a > course in child development.  You are your wife are idiots and need to > get a clue.

Oh no, the trolls are ganging up on me!   What am I ever going to do? Regards, Andrew

Response:

> One point for you. Now try to figure out why, as he, like all kids, > has a great many more of these kinds of challenges ahead of him and if > you keep berating and threatening you are going to wind up with a very > angry hostile teen that will make our life hell, as you deserve, if > you don’t drag out those child development books and learn what is > really happening.

While it doesn’t count for a whole lot, I learned a lot from my high school parenting course (I took it because I like kids and figured it would be good to know a bit about how their heads work) — Early child development and psychology is on my reading list, too. > You are so far, by your remarks, from knowing what you need to know > it’s embarassing to read your post.

I seriously doubt that.  You don’t need a Ph.D to raise kids without them turning out wrong.  You need to show love, respect and discipline and more importantly teach self-love, -respect and -discipline.  (I said discipline, not punishment.)  Anything above that helps, of course, but doesn’t mean the child will turn out any better, per se.  It’ll definately help keep your sanity and help you understand *why* a child is doing something a certain way. > Who knows, maybe the instructor has had some good interpersonal skills > training along with child development knowledge (if he or she is > trained in recreation chances are). When you finally got out of the > way the instructor could work using those skills. He or she probably > got that you’d lose it when hearing the instructor validate the > child’s very real fears (they disapate quickly when you acknowledge > them, the take root when you try to deny them).

You’re so far off-base it’s a wonder you’re still on-topic.  You seem to think that I was there every day.  He was in lessons for one week, and I came for one half hour at the end of the first week.  He’s now finishing up his second week.  Same instructor, same environment.  I was there for a half hour and I was in the way?  Puh-lease. > Whining is usually a learned behavior…guess who he got it from?

Ooh… did your psychology and ECE classes teach you to do that?  How big of you. > Next time tell him to tell you in a normal voice what his fears are > and validate every single one, even if you don’t believe him. They’ll > desolve as though they didn’t ever exist. Here, try this, "Boy, Billy > it sure is scary after having fallen in the water, to get back in > again." then shut up…no other words, nothing. No sympathy, no > advice, no humoring, just a kindly encouraging smile, and you’ll have > a tiger on your hands. This kid has already proved braver and tougher > than you and your wife with you "upsetting my wife and I so" bull.

Perhaps it is my writing style which lets you think that.  We normally validate his fears.  (previous ones were the dark and bugs; Monsters, Inc. validated his fears about monsters.  You (and a few of the others) think you know everything about my eldest and my interactions with him from a handful of posts; you must be so wise. > Tough kid. I admire him greatly. He overcame YOU and his fear. I’ll > bet the instructor had something to do with it.

See above, all-seeing, all-knowing usenet poster. I was there for 1/2 hour after one week into the two weeks of lessons.  I went there after hearing from the instructor that he didn’t appear to be trying.  I don’t tolerate that, and my kids know it.  If he were trying I wouldn’t have gotten upset.  I didn’t believe it was his accident last year that was the cause of this since he was in the water — even deep water — many times after that and before this.  These were his first "big pool" lessons of this year (i.e. since the winter) so I guess he regressed a little. Hell, if I were the pompous type I might even go on to say that since I did go there and show my disapproval of his actions and he showed marked improvement afterward that I did something right.  Honestly though, I don’t think that’s what it was.  It may have been part of it, maybe even some kind of catalyst, but he turned the situation around on his own, realized that we were telling him the truth and that hey, it’s not so hard after all. > Regards to you. Don’t let my rant bother you. I just want to make sure > to wake up yet another ignorant (no offense intended) parent before > yet another child gets burned on his or her development needs.

I don’t mind being proven wrong.  At all.  Follow the threads in sci.electronics.design and on the various web boards I post on to see that.   I welcome constructive criticism.  I know I don’t know it all, and I don’t profess to.  What I don’t welcome is the condescending attitude and the claims made about my parenting abilities based on once scenario out of ten thousand or more.  That’s not even enough to state that you’re following a trend! I think that I’m a pretty decent parent.  My kids are all healthy and strong and smart, and I love them all unconditionally. They know that because I tell them so pretty much every day and try to show them through my interaction with them at all times.  Even when I’m angry at them I let them know that it doesn’t mean that I don’t love them.  I don’t tolerate certain things (e.g. not-trying, whining, talking back, etc.) but the rules are consistent and (in my mind) are only common sense.  My kids know all of this, too.  They don’t live in fear of me.  It’s my hope that they will grow up to be productive and happy and able to instill the same lessons of self-love, respect and discipline that I am trying to instill into them and show them that I possess. Regards, Andrew

Response:

>I just wanted to thank everyone for the comments and personal relations to >this particular problem. >I’m not sure what happened.  It might have been when I pulled him out of the >pool last week and told him we weren’t going anymore if he wasn’t going to >even try that gave him the right kick in the ass or if he came about this >on his own (Personally I think it was the latter) but he has been doing >*way* more than excellent this week.  He’s dunking, front-floating, >listening and most importantly, he’s *trying* to learn.

It would be a great idea if you went to the local college and took a course in child development.  You are your wife are idiots and need to get a clue. Loev, Ms Pants

Response:

Congrats that it worked out! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I just wanted to thank everyone for the comments and personal relations to > this particular problem. > I’m not sure what happened.  It might have been when I pulled him out of the > pool last week and told him we weren’t going anymore if he wasn’t going to > even try that gave him the right kick in the ass or if he came about this > on his own (Personally I think it was the latter) but he has been doing > *way* more than excellent this week.  He’s dunking, front-floating, > listening and most importantly, he’s *trying* to learn. > I could give two shits if couldn’t swim yet, it was the total lack of even > trying and the whining about it all that was upsetting my wife and I so. > This week, however, is a complete turnaround. > In yesterday’s class he managed to front-float.  I haven’t seen him this > proud of himself in ages.  Of course, both my wife and I congradulated him > and told him how proud we were.  He’s still beaming about it! > At any rate, thank you all for your responses.  I wish I knew what helped, > but I suppose that in the long run all that matters is that his confidence > is there and he realizes that we just want him to try. > Regards, > Andrew

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I just wanted to thank everyone for the comments and personal relations to > this particular problem. > I’m not sure what happened.  It might have been when I pulled him out of the > pool last week and told him we weren’t going anymore if he wasn’t going to > even try that gave him the right kick in the ass or if he came about this > on his own (Personally I think it was the latter) but he has been doing > *way* more than excellent this week.  He’s dunking, front-floating, > listening and most importantly, he’s *trying* to learn. > I could give two shits if couldn’t swim yet, it was the total lack of even > trying and the whining about it all that was upsetting my wife and I so. > This week, however, is a complete turnaround. > In yesterday’s class he managed to front-float.  I haven’t seen him this > proud of himself in ages.  Of course, both my wife and I congradulated him > and told him how proud we were.  He’s still beaming about it! > At any rate, thank you all for your responses.  I wish I knew what helped, > but I suppose that in the long run all that matters is that his confidence > is there and he realizes that we just want him to try.

well, I wasn’t too nice in my responce to your post, but congrats on your kid overcoming his fear of the water. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Regards, > Andrew

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I just wanted to thank everyone for the comments and personal relations to >this particular problem. >I’m not sure what happened.  It might have been when I pulled him out of the >pool last week and told him we weren’t going anymore if he wasn’t going to >even try that gave him the right kick in the ass or if he came about this >on his own (Personally I think it was the latter) but he has been doing >*way* more than excellent this week.  He’s dunking, front-floating, >listening and most importantly, he’s *trying* to learn. >I could give two shits if couldn’t swim yet, it was the total lack of even >trying and the whining about it all that was upsetting my wife and I so.   >This week, however, is a complete turnaround. >In yesterday’s class he managed to front-float.  I haven’t seen him this >proud of himself in ages.  Of course, both my wife and I congradulated him >and told him how proud we were.  He’s still beaming about it! >At any rate, thank you all for your responses.  I wish I knew what helped, >but I suppose that in the long run all that matters is that his confidence >is there and he realizes that we just want him to try. >Andrew

He may seem to have even gained from this, but he has also lost from this. He now knows he can’t really count on you to love him unconditionally. And now you will get to see what happens to a kid when that’s what he thinks about you. Now you will see him procede to do hateful things to himself in order to try to win your love, and yet he will feel as though nothing he does is ever good enough for you, and he will hate himself inside, and do all the things that self-hate brings! Good luck, you’re gonna fucking need it! Steve

Response:

Glad to hear it! Thanks for the update.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I just wanted to thank everyone for the comments and personal relations to > this particular problem. > I’m not sure what happened.  It might have been when I pulled him out of the > pool last week and told him we weren’t going anymore if he wasn’t going to > even try that gave him the right kick in the ass or if he came about this > on his own (Personally I think it was the latter) but he has been doing > *way* more than excellent this week.  He’s dunking, front-floating, > listening and most importantly, he’s *trying* to learn. > I could give two shits if couldn’t swim yet, it was the total lack of even > trying and the whining about it all that was upsetting my wife and I so. > This week, however, is a complete turnaround. > In yesterday’s class he managed to front-float.  I haven’t seen him this > proud of himself in ages.  Of course, both my wife and I congradulated him > and told him how proud we were.  He’s still beaming about it! > At any rate, thank you all for your responses.  I wish I knew what helped, > but I suppose that in the long run all that matters is that his confidence > is there and he realizes that we just want him to try. > Regards, > Andrew

Response:

I just wanted to thank everyone for the comments and personal relations to this particular problem. I’m not sure what happened.  It might have been when I pulled him out of the pool last week and told him we weren’t going anymore if he wasn’t going to even try that gave him the right kick in the ass or if he came about this on his own (Personally I think it was the latter) but he has been doing *way* more than excellent this week.  He’s dunking, front-floating, listening and most importantly, he’s *trying* to learn. I could give two shits if couldn’t swim yet, it was the total lack of even trying and the whining about it all that was upsetting my wife and I so.   This week, however, is a complete turnaround. In yesterday’s class he managed to front-float.  I haven’t seen him this proud of himself in ages.  Of course, both my wife and I congradulated him and told him how proud we were.  He’s still beaming about it! At any rate, thank you all for your responses.  I wish I knew what helped, but I suppose that in the long run all that matters is that his confidence is there and he realizes that we just want him to try. Regards, Andrew

Response:

> Babies cry.  It’s their job.  You can either handle the package deal or not. > If you think the crying is getting on *your* nerves, how do you think the > child’s mother feels?

that was pretty insensative. A guy comes looking for help, admits his fualt or short comings, admits he doesn’t know what to do and you decide to be a twat……

Response:

I agree that the colic may be caused by lactose intolerence so the soy formula products are a good idea. As for teething, I’ve found that Cold Pickles, Fruits etc.. Are great teethers and taste good so their more likely to keep them in their mouths. My 8 1/2 month old just got 3 more teeth (making it a grand total of 5) all in one night. I don’t think I could have dealt with it with out using the homeopathic teething tablets that you find at any health food store like wellspring or the such. They are made of Chamomilla and disolve in the mouth like sugar tablets, they are made by Hyland’s Homeopathic Medicine so if you can’t find them at the health food store you can definatley order them from the company. Bessie …Loving being a mommy

Response:

>they are >made by Hyland’s Homeopathic Medicine so if you can’t find them at the health >food store you can definatley order them from the company. >Bessie >…Loving being a mommy

Or you can find them at Walmart.  You might have to ask the pharmacist but they do have them there too. — Sophie mom to Charlotte (6/98) Patrick (11/99) #3 due 12/20 See us at www.mcgehees.com

Response:

It’s hard.  My baby had a hernia, it turned out to be adult-sized, the doctor said it was the largest one he had ever seen on a child.  He was operated upon and thank G-d he is all right.  But it’s hard.  I remember the older ones saying, daddy yelling at the baby. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi. >I am going to post this to relevant newsgroups, please forgive the related >crosspost. I want as many answers as I can get. >Here is the situation, I’m a 33 year old single male, seeing a 31 year old >single mother. First of all, I adore children. I  like to think for a single >male, I am very good with my time and children. I take my friends kids out >to parks, for walks, to the local pond, and to birthday parties. Yes I also >babysit them and do up any dishes in the house (a woman’s dream come true >hmm). >Since seeing the single mother, and her 7 month old son, I have seen another >side of children. The crying all the time side. I thought I was so ready for >children after playing and spending time with 3-6 year old ones, but this >has changed my mind just about. He was born colic and is also teething, and >just won’t stop crying it seems. I went so far as to run to the local >Chapters store to read up on parenting books and how to cope. I know that >crying indicates a problem, and that is the sole way a child communicates. >Having already said that I adore children, and demnostrated that, I have to >say this crying is driving me batshit. I will not yell at the child, but I >do come close. I will turn around and say something like "what is it now?" >"why wont you stop crying" "what the hell is wrong with you?". I won’t yell, >but my tone of voice may be abrupt. >I have tried and tried to be patient, and I know when he gets older we will >get along fine. I walk him, play with him and feed him, and adore him, but >the crying is agony. And the mother gives me hell everytime. She does not >want him to grow up like she did, with a poor esteem. I know that they can >learn just from your tone of voice, and she fears that this will continue >into his older years as well. I am certain it will end when he stops crying >inexplicably. It is just the not knowing why he is crying that really REALLY >frustrates and annoys me. In my credit, I like to think I am making an >honest effort to find out how to overcome this, and to accept him (as he is >not mine), and I really care for the mother. So what would you suggest??? >Thanks >(if you reply, change noreply.com to canada.com)

Response:

> > Oh but they are a package deal, which is why I am here on this newgroup > asking for suggestions on how to cope/adjust with the constant crying, to > make the relationship work. > I won’t even get into the hours upon hours of time I spent fixing up her > home, taking the child out for walks, feeding him, etc. The effort is > certainly there. > If you’re not getting angry with a tiny baby, like some insipid prick, > then what makes you think it’s NOT "working"??  Life is what happens > while you’re trying to perfect it!! > Steve

Hey, Steve, this guy is smart to recognize that this is sending him over the edge.  Maybe he CAN’T handle it.  Wouldn’t you rather that he admit it and get either some behavior modification help  ( by the way Babies are great at the behavior modification of their parents… remember when whatever you did actually WORKED and instead of that awful howl, you got a smile through those tears? There is no better reward!) If indeed, he cannot handle it, and can’t relax enough to calmly find the solution to the kid’s crying trigger, then he needs to know when to walk away. When a kid is shaken, thrown or otherwise injured it is often by an inexperienced bf who tried to take on a responsibility for which he was completely unprepared. At least this guy is admitting to needing some help, and looking for alternatives.   If he doesn’t state his questions exactly "right" or shows that he has some rather foolish assumptions about the reality of bringing up a baby ( and perhaps what it means to take on that fundamental responsibility in connection with that OTHER person, the child’s mother and his erstwhile mate), that is part of the journey he needs to make towards being either a single guy or a responsible parent.  None of us come with instruction books, you know. Pat

Response:

> Oh but they are a package deal, which is why I am here on this newgroup > asking for suggestions on how to cope/adjust with the constant crying, to > make the relationship work. > I won’t even get into the hours upon hours of time I spent fixing up her > home, taking the child out for walks, feeding him, etc. The effort is > certainly there.

MJ, It’s not that I don’t believe you.  I’m not even critical of how much or how little you are doing, as if I *could* have any idea how much that *is*. I continue to get bothered at the undertone I hear, and for all I know I’m dreaming it up.  But the undertone I hear is what I keep replying to you about. It sounds as if you think this crying is "somewhat optional" for the child. It sounds as if you think it’s "big of you" to take on a crying child with the mother. Certainly its good.  But isn’t your willingness to do this a nonoptional requirement for dating/living with the mother? I mean that.  I get this sense, perhaps incorrectly, that you see your willingness as a sort of "added bonus". Barb

Response:

> Oh but they are a package deal, which is why I am here on this newgroup > asking for suggestions on how to cope/adjust with the constant crying, to > make the relationship work.

Go for a decent walk alone when you feel yourself slipping. And I mean "walk" not just "get out of the house." Helped me tremendously to just be able to take a break with a child that screamed herself hoarse every night for the first three months and wouldn’t sleep alone for a year. Then I’d make sure my wife had the same opportunity. And for the "there must be something wrong" crowd: Sure it’s possible something was wrong, but reality was that within a few minutes of 8:30 every night the screaming would just start. From birth onwards. 8:15 she was happy and a joy to be with. 25 minutes later she was inconsolable. Around 5AM she’d be exhausted and fall asleep. 8-9 hours of continuous yelling; I was worried she was going to permanently damage her vocal chords, but that seems to have been unwarranted. G

Response:

I would be concerned if the baby is 7 mo. old and "crying all the time". Have you taken him to the pediatrician?  I would to rule out anything serious. Is there a pattern to the crying?  Like after a feeding?  Is it a recent occurrence?  Could be an ear infection?  That is why I would go to the pediatrician and talk to him/her about this. You have to be like a detective and find out why.  At this young age the baby is crying for a REASON.  It is his only way to communicate with you and his mother that he is in discomfort or pain. As for you losing your patience and getting angry, the baby knows this.  The baby will pick up on your frustrations and it will only make him cry more. He will feel your frustration and it will scare him and/or make him frustrated too.  You are making a bad situation worse. Check this out with a doctor first then go from there. Good luck! Mary Ellen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi. > I am going to post this to relevant newsgroups, please forgive the related > crosspost. I want as many answers as I can get. > Here is the situation, I’m a 33 year old single male, seeing a 31 year old > single mother. First of all, I adore children. I  like to think for a single > male, I am very good with my time and children. I take my friends kids out > to parks, for walks, to the local pond, and to birthday parties. Yes I also > babysit them and do up any dishes in the house (a woman’s dream come true > hmm). > Since seeing the single mother, and her 7 month old son, I have seen another > side of children. The crying all the time side. I thought I was so ready for > children after playing and spending time with 3-6 year old ones, but this > has changed my mind just about. He was born colic and is also teething, and > just won’t stop crying it seems. I went so far as to run to the local > Chapters store to read up on parenting books and how to cope. I know that > crying indicates a problem, and that is the sole way a child communicates. > Having already said that I adore children, and demnostrated that, I have to > say this crying is driving me batshit. I will not yell at the child, but I > do come close. I will turn around and say something like "what is it now?" > "why wont you stop crying" "what the hell is wrong with you?". I won’t yell, > but my tone of voice may be abrupt. > I have tried and tried to be patient, and I know when he gets older we will > get along fine. I walk him, play with him and feed him, and adore him, but > the crying is agony. And the mother gives me hell everytime. She does not > want him to grow up like she did, with a poor esteem. I know that they can > learn just from your tone of voice, and she fears that this will continue > into his older years as well. I am certain it will end when he stops crying > inexplicably. It is just the not knowing why he is crying that really REALLY > frustrates and annoys me. In my credit, I like to think I am making an > honest effort to find out how to overcome this, and to accept him (as he is > not mine), and I really care for the mother. So what would you suggest??? > Thanks > (if you reply, change noreply.com to canada.com)

Response:

Oh but they are a package deal, which is why I am here on this newgroup asking for suggestions on how to cope/adjust with the constant crying, to make the relationship work. I won’t even get into the hours upon hours of time I spent fixing up her home, taking the child out for walks, feeding him, etc. The effort is certainly there.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Then we would divorce??? who knows… all I know is I am here asking for > advice to help. I could just say ‘to hell with it, YOU deal with him’ but > I’m not. > I guess you could do that. > I just wonder if you were to do that, why take up space in the mom’s life that > she could fill with a guy who could find in himself an attitude of it being a > mutual problem, not *her* problem. > Don’t mind me too much though, I wanted to be a lot more of a parent to my YSD, > and was pushed away by her dad when he wasn’t demanding that "you’re a woman, > help her."  And that doesn’t even touch the marital problems I’m having. Again, > I’m the one with the problem, not a problem to him that I have a problem until > it makes his dinner burnt or late. > I do wish I could imagine I was hearing more of a flavor that you understand the > mom and baby as a package deal. > Barb > Barb > > After 2 easy babies, I had a colicky one. It swear he cried for the first > > year straight.  The only thing that really helped was giving him a bath or > > going for a drive. All I can say is the DO grow out of it. > > You say the crying baby is killing your relationship. Well, what if you > were > > married, and this was your child, and he still cried all the time? > > > Hi. > > > I am going to post this to relevant newsgroups, please forgive the > related > > > crosspost. I want as many answers as I can get. > > > Here is the situation, I’m a 33 year old single male, seeing a 31 year > old > > > single mother. First of all, I adore children. I  like to think for a > > single > > > male, I am very good with my time and children. I take my friends kids > out > > > to parks, for walks, to the local pond, and to birthday parties. Yes I > > also > > > babysit them and do up any dishes in the house (a woman’s dream come > true > > > hmm). > > > Since seeing the single mother, and her 7 month old son, I have seen > > another > > > side of children. The crying all the time side. I thought I was so ready > > for > > > children after playing and spending time with 3-6 year old ones, but > this > > > has changed my mind just about. He was born colic and is also teething, > > and > > > just won’t stop crying it seems. I went so far as to run to the local > > > Chapters store to read up on parenting books and how to cope. I know > that > > > crying indicates a problem, and that is the sole way a child > communicates. > > > Having already said that I adore children, and demnostrated that, I have > > to > > > say this crying is driving me batshit. I will not yell at the child, but > I > > > do come close. I will turn around and say something like "what is it > now?" > > > "why wont you stop crying" "what the hell is wrong with you?". I won’t > > yell, > > > but my tone of voice may be abrupt. > > > I have tried and tried to be patient, and I know when he gets older we > > will > > > get along fine. I walk him, play with him and feed him, and adore him, > but > > > the crying is agony. And the mother gives me hell everytime. She does > not > > > want him to grow up like she did, with a poor esteem. I know that they > can > > > learn just from your tone of voice, and she fears that this will > continue > > > into his older years as well. I am certain it will end when he stops > > crying > > > inexplicably. It is just the not knowing why he is crying that really > > REALLY > > > frustrates and annoys me. In my credit, I like to think I am making an > > > honest effort to find out how to overcome this, and to accept him (as he > > is > > > not mine), and I really care for the mother. So what would you > suggest??? > > > Thanks > > > (if you reply, change noreply.com to canada.com)

Response:

> Then we would divorce??? who knows… all I know is I am here asking for > advice to help. I could just say ‘to hell with it, YOU deal with him’ but > I’m not.

Then do the right thing and love the child as yours. Me

Response:

> Then we would divorce??? who knows… all I know is I am here asking for > advice to help. I could just say ‘to hell with it, YOU deal with him’ but > I’m not.

Why not? JT

Response:

> Then we would divorce??? who knows… all I know is I am here asking for > advice to help. I could just say ‘to hell with it, YOU deal with him’ but > I’m not.

I guess you could do that. I just wonder if you were to do that, why take up space in the mom’s life that she could fill with a guy who could find in himself an attitude of it being a mutual problem, not *her* problem. Don’t mind me too much though, I wanted to be a lot more of a parent to my YSD, and was pushed away by her dad when he wasn’t demanding that "you’re a woman, help her."  And that doesn’t even touch the marital problems I’m having.  Again, I’m the one with the problem, not a problem to him that I have a problem until it makes his dinner burnt or late. I do wish I could imagine I was hearing more of a flavor that you understand the mom and baby as a package deal. Barb Barb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> After 2 easy babies, I had a colicky one. It swear he cried for the first > year straight.  The only thing that really helped was giving him a bath or > going for a drive. All I can say is the DO grow out of it. > You say the crying baby is killing your relationship. Well, what if you > were > married, and this was your child, and he still cried all the time? > > Hi. > > I am going to post this to relevant newsgroups, please forgive the > related > > crosspost. I want as many answers as I can get. > > Here is the situation, I’m a 33 year old single male, seeing a 31 year > old > > single mother. First of all, I adore children. I  like to think for a > single > > male, I am very good with my time and children. I take my friends kids > out > > to parks, for walks, to the local pond, and to birthday parties. Yes I > also > > babysit them and do up any dishes in the house (a woman’s dream come > true > > hmm). > > Since seeing the single mother, and her 7 month old son, I have seen > another > > side of children. The crying all the time side. I thought I was so ready > for > > children after playing and spending time with 3-6 year old ones, but > this > > has changed my mind just about. He was born colic and is also teething, > and > > just won’t stop crying it seems. I went so far as to run to the local > > Chapters store to read up on parenting books and how to cope. I know > that > > crying indicates a problem, and that is the sole way a child > communicates. > > Having already said that I adore children, and demnostrated that, I have > to > > say this crying is driving me batshit. I will not yell at the child, but > I > > do come close. I will turn around and say something like "what is it > now?" > > "why wont you stop crying" "what the hell is wrong with you?". I won’t > yell, > > but my tone of voice may be abrupt. > > I have tried and tried to be patient, and I know when he gets older we > will > > get along fine. I walk him, play with him and feed him, and adore him, > but > > the crying is agony. And the mother gives me hell everytime. She does > not > > want him to grow up like she did, with a poor esteem. I know that they > can > > learn just from your tone of voice, and she fears that this will > continue > > into his older years as well. I am certain it will end when he stops > crying > > inexplicably. It is just the not knowing why he is crying that really > REALLY > > frustrates and annoys me. In my credit, I like to think I am making an > > honest effort to find out how to overcome this, and to accept him (as he > is > > not mine), and I really care for the mother. So what would you > suggest??? > > Thanks > > (if you reply, change noreply.com to canada.com)

Response:

Then we would divorce??? who knows… all I know is I am here asking for advice to help. I could just say ‘to hell with it, YOU deal with him’ but I’m not. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> After 2 easy babies, I had a colicky one. It swear he cried for the first > year straight.  The only thing that really helped was giving him a bath or > going for a drive. All I can say is the DO grow out of it. > You say the crying baby is killing your relationship. Well, what if you were > married, and this was your child, and he still cried all the time? > Hi. > I am going to post this to relevant newsgroups, please forgive the related > crosspost. I want as many answers as I can get. > Here is the situation, I’m a 33 year old single male, seeing a 31 year old > single mother. First of all, I adore children. I  like to think for a > single > male, I am very good with my time and children. I take my friends kids out > to parks, for walks, to the local pond, and to birthday parties. Yes I > also > babysit them and do up any dishes in the house (a woman’s dream come true > hmm). > Since seeing the single mother, and her 7 month old son, I have seen > another > side of children. The crying all the time side. I thought I was so ready > for > children after playing and spending time with 3-6 year old ones, but this > has changed my mind just about. He was born colic and is also teething, > and > just won’t stop crying it seems. I went so far as to run to the local > Chapters store to read up on parenting books and how to cope. I know that > crying indicates a problem, and that is the sole way a child communicates. > Having already said that I adore children, and demnostrated that, I have > to > say this crying is driving me batshit. I will not yell at the child, but I > do come close. I will turn around and say something like "what is it now?" > "why wont you stop crying" "what the hell is wrong with you?". I won’t > yell, > but my tone of voice may be abrupt. > I have tried and tried to be patient, and I know when he gets older we > will > get along fine. I walk him, play with him and feed him, and adore him, but > the crying is agony. And the mother gives me hell everytime. She does not > want him to grow up like she did, with a poor esteem. I know that they can > learn just from your tone of voice, and she fears that this will continue > into his older years as well. I am certain it will end when he stops > crying > inexplicably. It is just the not knowing why he is crying that really > REALLY > frustrates and annoys me. In my credit, I like to think I am making an > honest effort to find out how to overcome this, and to accept him (as he > is > not mine), and I really care for the mother. So what would you suggest??? > Thanks > (if you reply, change noreply.com to canada.com)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi. > I am going to post this to relevant newsgroups, please forgive the related > crosspost. I want as many answers as I can get. > Here is the situation, I’m a 33 year old single male, seeing a 31 year old > single mother. First of all, I adore children. I  like to think for a single > male, I am very good with my time and children. I take my friends kids out > to parks, for walks, to the local pond, and to birthday parties. Yes I also > babysit them and do up any dishes in the house (a woman’s dream come true > hmm). > Since seeing the single mother, and her 7 month old son, I have seen another > side of children. The crying all the time side. (snip other)

Get a copy of the baby whisperer. It has some wonderful ideas. — Vicky If Fed Ex and UPS were to merge, would they call it Fed UP?

Response:

>And the mother gives me hell everytime. She does not >want him to grow up like she did, with a poor esteem. I know that they can >learn just from your tone of voice, and she fears that this will continue >into his older years as well. I am certain it will end when he stops crying >snip<

I’m in a relationship with a man who is not my child’s father.  For awhile he took an aggressive tone when she cried.  He would say that she *shouldn’t* cry because it’s *naughty*.  For a while I hated him for saying that because it isn’t true.  Babies cry because they need something.  Yes, sometimes they cry when they are being naughty – but the act of crying itself is not naughty.  I just want to give you the ‘mother’s perspective’ on this.  I don’t know if your girlfriend is the same, but I felt very possessive over my child.  I saw it as ‘this is my baby, not his’.  When the baby cried I wanted to deal with it, but I felt like my boyfriend was taking over – every time she cried he would pick her up, take her out of the room and use a…harsh tone of voice with her to try and stop her crying.  It broke my heart to see the fear on her face when he did that.  Eventually it had to stop.  I told him that yes he could be a father-figure to my daughter but he has to do it MY way or he can leave.  That really hurt him, but ultimately, she IS mine, NOT his and he needed to remember that we come as a package and if he *can’t* raise my daughter my way then he should find someone else.  Things are better now.  He took my advice and only tells her off if she is really really naughty and not listening to me!  I just wanted you to see how it can sometimes be from the mother’s point of view.  If you can get through this crying stage it will all be worth it.  If the stress of the crying gets too much then just hand the baby back to it’s mother for awhile.  Once they start to walk and do more things, they cry less and get tired more easily.  REMEMBER the more stressed out you are, the more the baby will cry.  They DO sense other people’s stress.  I hope this helps, if only a little!  Good Luck, Zoe

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Are these things already on your list of why baby might be crying: > Baby too hot, too cold > Room too hot, too cold > Hungry > Stomach too full, > Gassy > Family’s nerves on edge > Thirsty > Diaper Change > Diaper too tight > Diaper too loose > Diaper rash > Baby’s arms and legs not wrapped closely, feeling of insecurity > Baby’s arms and legs wrapped too closely, feeling of confinement, just like > before *that* experience, labor > Teething > Too tired to sleep > Slept too much, needs activity, interaction > Dark > Light > Boredom

One more thing I would add to that list – although it’s rare, it happened to our little one: a hair, tightly wound around a finger or toe

Response:

After 2 easy babies, I had a colicky one. It swear he cried for the first year straight.  The only thing that really helped was giving him a bath or going for a drive. All I can say is the DO grow out of it. You say the crying baby is killing your relationship. Well, what if you were married, and this was your child, and he still cried all the time?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi. > I am going to post this to relevant newsgroups, please forgive the related > crosspost. I want as many answers as I can get. > Here is the situation, I’m a 33 year old single male, seeing a 31 year old > single mother. First of all, I adore children. I  like to think for a single > male, I am very good with my time and children. I take my friends kids out > to parks, for walks, to the local pond, and to birthday parties. Yes I also > babysit them and do up any dishes in the house (a woman’s dream come true > hmm). > Since seeing the single mother, and her 7 month old son, I have seen another > side of children. The crying all the time side. I thought I was so ready for > children after playing and spending time with 3-6 year old ones, but this > has changed my mind just about. He was born colic and is also teething, and > just won’t stop crying it seems. I went so far as to run to the local > Chapters store to read up on parenting books and how to cope. I know that > crying indicates a problem, and that is the sole way a child communicates. > Having already said that I adore children, and demnostrated that, I have to > say this crying is driving me batshit. I will not yell at the child, but I > do come close. I will turn around and say something like "what is it now?" > "why wont you stop crying" "what the hell is wrong with you?". I won’t yell, > but my tone of voice may be abrupt. > I have tried and tried to be patient, and I know when he gets older we will > get along fine. I walk him, play with him and feed him, and adore him, but > the crying is agony. And the mother gives me hell everytime. She does not > want him to grow up like she did, with a poor esteem. I know that they can > learn just from your tone of voice, and she fears that this will continue > into his older years as well. I am certain it will end when he stops crying > inexplicably. It is just the not knowing why he is crying that really REALLY > frustrates and annoys me. In my credit, I like to think I am making an > honest effort to find out how to overcome this, and to accept him (as he is > not mine), and I really care for the mother. So what would you suggest??? > Thanks > (if you reply, change noreply.com to canada.com)

Response:

> The shoulder sling works, he will stop when I take him outside for a walk. > It is just the times where he in doors and nothing seems to work. Food, > play, talking, picking him up… then I grow frustrated that nothing is > working and frustration turns to anger.

A very good time to swap with the other person.  "Here, you hold the baby and feel helpless to stop him crying, while I cook, wash, clean, repair something." I kinda go with the earplugs thing.  When my baby screamed, you couldn’t have heard a fire engine parked outside the house.  Not that he screamed at that level for hours, but we literally had to write notes or use gestures when he was in full scream. > I’m not sure if this relationship > will ever work out Of course babies cry, but it takes people to know how > to handle them… and I sometimes think that isn’t me.

Scuse, but mostly people don’t simply *know* how.  They study ahead before they even have children, or they go for the crash course once they have a baby. If *you* go for the crash course, I think the first thing to accept is that you aren’t going to *know* what’s wrong even after you finish the course.  You will be prepared with a list of things to try, things to check, that will make you feel less helpless.  You will get smarter about what to try first, but that still leaves those times when the baby is crying because the baby feels helpless. Are these things already on your list of why baby might be crying: Baby too hot, too cold Room too hot, too cold Hungry Stomach too full, Gassy Family’s nerves on edge Thirsty Diaper Change Diaper too tight Diaper too loose Diaper rash Baby’s arms and legs not wrapped closely, feeling of insecurity Baby’s arms and legs wrapped too closely, feeling of confinement, just like before *that* experience, labor Teething Too tired to sleep Slept too much, needs activity, interaction Dark Light Boredom Well, there’s more, no doubt, but you won’t get to *know* 100% of the time. You’ll just get better at guessing. Also, when you can get either adult calmed down, the baby will relax that much more. Barb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > My daughter was a colicky baby and I oftentime had feelings going > through > > that stage that I could not believe I was actually thinking them!!  The > > crying was bad (from 5 to midnight) and I did a few things and > eventually > > she outgrew the colic- here are my ideas: > > 1. Mylicon Drops (OTC) became my best friends…soothed her tummy rather > > quickly. > > 2. Changed formulas until I found one that didn’t make her cry- Lacto > Free > > by the way. > > 3. Held her like a football to put a little pressure on her belly (until > I > > found the drops, this would work for short term). > > He may be too old for colic but maybe not- dd’s colic ended at 4 months. > If > > youthink teething is part of the problem, then give him some baby orajel > or > > make juice ice cubes- that helps.  Im lucky that dd’s teething stage was > not > > bad at all. > > Good luck and you’re a good man for being supportive to your g/f…hang > in > > there- it gets MUCH better. > > Connie > I would add that infant massage helped me a lot, and also I had one of > those > ‘over one shoulder’ slings and it was a Godsend. > With hope and heart, > Kathleen

Response:

The shoulder sling works, he will stop when I take him outside for a walk. It is just the times where he in doors and nothing seems to work. Food, play, talking, picking him up… then I grow frustrated that nothing is working and frustration turns to anger. I’m not sure if this relationship will ever work out Of course babies cry, but it takes people to know how to handle them… and I sometimes think that isn’t me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My daughter was a colicky baby and I oftentime had feelings going through > that stage that I could not believe I was actually thinking them!!  The > crying was bad (from 5 to midnight) and I did a few things and eventually > she outgrew the colic- here are my ideas: > 1. Mylicon Drops (OTC) became my best friends…soothed her tummy rather > quickly. > 2. Changed formulas until I found one that didn’t make her cry- Lacto Free > by the way. > 3. Held her like a football to put a little pressure on her belly (until I > found the drops, this would work for short term). > He may be too old for colic but maybe not- dd’s colic ended at 4 months. > If > youthink teething is part of the problem, then give him some baby orajel > or > make juice ice cubes- that helps.  Im lucky that dd’s teething stage was > not > bad at all. > Good luck and you’re a good man for being supportive to your g/f…hang in > there- it gets MUCH better. > Connie > I would add that infant massage helped me a lot, and also I had one of those > ‘over one shoulder’ slings and it was a Godsend. > With hope and heart, > Kathleen

Response:

> The shoulder sling works, he will stop when I take him outside for a walk. > It is just the times where he in doors and nothing seems to work. Food, > play, talking, picking him up… then I grow frustrated that nothing is > working and frustration turns to anger. I’m not sure if this relationship > will ever work out Of course babies cry, but it takes people to know how > to handle them… and I sometimes think that isn’t me.

There is no *magic* type of person who can make a baby stop crying.  I never did figure out how to soothe my oldest when she was colicky…she cried, I cried, she got frustrated, I got frustrated, she got older, I got older, she stopped crying, and I stopped crying.  Some stuff you just ‘get through’, other stuff you can solve. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > My daughter was a colicky baby and I oftentime had feelings going > through > > that stage that I could not believe I was actually thinking them!! The > > crying was bad (from 5 to midnight) and I did a few things and > eventually > > she outgrew the colic- here are my ideas: > > 1. Mylicon Drops (OTC) became my best friends…soothed her tummy rather > > quickly. > > 2. Changed formulas until I found one that didn’t make her cry- Lacto > Free > > by the way. > > 3. Held her like a football to put a little pressure on her belly (until > I > > found the drops, this would work for short term). > > He may be too old for colic but maybe not- dd’s colic ended at 4 months. > If > > youthink teething is part of the problem, then give him some baby orajel > or > > make juice ice cubes- that helps.  Im lucky that dd’s teething stage was > not > > bad at all. > > Good luck and you’re a good man for being supportive to your g/f…hang > in > > there- it gets MUCH better. > > Connie > I would add that infant massage helped me a lot, and also I had one of > those > ‘over one shoulder’ slings and it was a Godsend. > With hope and heart, > Kathleen

Response:

<snip> It’s hard to know how to deal with a crying child… mine made me feel very frustrated and confused and unconfident when she would have one of those times where she just wouldn’t stop. All I can say, and I know this probably won’t help, but the only thing that got me through it really, was to remember during those times that nothing lasts forever and that she would eventually fall asleep/grow out of it/be able to tell me what was wrong… and she did. It’s tough to deal with a constantly crying baby  I think, since it isn’t your baby, you should just be open and tell the mom and let her handle it… that way you can watch her methods or whatever and not feel so pressured by the situation… you can also put her more at ease about the "esteem" and "tone" issues. HTH — Pastequesorte "Jesus don’t want me for a sunbeam sunbeams are not made like me…" http://spinning_plates.tripod.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My daughter was a colicky baby and I oftentime had feelings going through > that stage that I could not believe I was actually thinking them!!  The > crying was bad (from 5 to midnight) and I did a few things and eventually > she outgrew the colic- here are my ideas: > 1. Mylicon Drops (OTC) became my best friends…soothed her tummy rather > quickly. > 2. Changed formulas until I found one that didn’t make her cry- Lacto Free > by the way. > 3. Held her like a football to put a little pressure on her belly (until I > found the drops, this would work for short term). > He may be too old for colic but maybe not- dd’s colic ended at 4 months. If > youthink teething is part of the problem, then give him some baby orajel or > make juice ice cubes- that helps.  Im lucky that dd’s teething stage was not > bad at all. > Good luck and you’re a good man for being supportive to your g/f…hang in > there- it gets MUCH better. > Connie

I would add that infant massage helped me a lot, and also I had one of those ‘over one shoulder’ slings and it was a Godsend. With hope and heart, Kathleen

Response:

What worked with my son was taking him off ALL milk products.  I was nursing him at the time and that meant I had to stop eating or drinking dairy products.Come to find out, withing THREE DAYS he was doing vastly better. He’s lactose intolerant. With teething comes a lot of pain.  And in my son’s case, ear infections as well. Due to the fact his sinus’s became more active and he couldn’t drain the fluid from his ears. These all pass with time.  Unfortunately that doesn’t help the inadequacy you feel while it is going on. If you aren’t in love with that child then you need to leave the relationship.  Period.  Because that child will ALWAYS be first.   My husband fell in love with my son.  And I know that even if something happens to us or me, he’ll be there for my son because his relationship is 100% separate from his relationship with me.  We have three relationships.  His relationship with me, his relationship with my son, and our relationship as a family unit.  That is the ONLY way its gonna work. good Luck!! b

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi. > I am going to post this to relevant newsgroups, please forgive the related > crosspost. I want as many answers as I can get. > Here is the situation, I’m a 33 year old single male, seeing a 31 year old > single mother. First of all, I adore children. I  like to think for a single > male, I am very good with my time and children. I take my friends kids out > to parks, for walks, to the local pond, and to birthday parties. Yes I also > babysit them and do up any dishes in the house (a woman’s dream come true > hmm). > Since seeing the single mother, and her 7 month old son, I have seen another > side of children. The crying all the time side. I thought I was so ready for > children after playing and spending time with 3-6 year old ones, but this > has changed my mind just about. He was born colic and is also teething, and > just won’t stop crying it seems. I went so far as to run to the local > Chapters store to read up on parenting books and how to cope. I know that > crying indicates a problem, and that is the sole way a child communicates. > Having already said that I adore children, and demnostrated that, I have to > say this crying is driving me batshit. I will not yell at the child, but I > do come close. I will turn around and say something like "what is it now?" > "why wont you stop crying" "what the hell is wrong with you?". I won’t yell, > but my tone of voice may be abrupt. > I have tried and tried to be patient, and I know when he gets older we will > get along fine. I walk him, play with him and feed him, and adore him, but > the crying is agony. And the mother gives me hell everytime. She does not > want him to grow up like she did, with a poor esteem. I know that they can > learn just from your tone of voice, and she fears that this will continue > into his older years as well. I am certain it will end when he stops crying > inexplicably. It is just the not knowing why he is crying that really REALLY > frustrates and annoys me. In my credit, I like to think I am making an > honest effort to find out how to overcome this, and to accept him (as he is > not mine), and I really care for the mother. So what would you suggest??? > Thanks > (if you reply, change noreply.com to canada.com)

Response:

My daughter was a colicky baby and I oftentime had feelings going through that stage that I could not believe I was actually thinking them!!  The crying was bad (from 5 to midnight) and I did a few things and eventually she outgrew the colic- here are my ideas: 1. Mylicon Drops (OTC) became my best friends…soothed her tummy rather quickly. 2. Changed formulas until I found one that didn’t make her cry- Lacto Free by the way. 3. Held her like a football to put a little pressure on her belly (until I found the drops, this would work for short term). He may be too old for colic but maybe not- dd’s colic ended at 4 months.  If youthink teething is part of the problem, then give him some baby orajel or make juice ice cubes- that helps.  Im lucky that dd’s teething stage was not bad at all. Good luck and you’re a good man for being supportive to your g/f…hang in there- it gets MUCH better. Connie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi. > I am going to post this to relevant newsgroups, please forgive the related > crosspost. I want as many answers as I can get. > Here is the situation, I’m a 33 year old single male, seeing a 31 year old > single mother. First of all, I adore children. I  like to think for a single > male, I am very good with my time and children. I take my friends kids out > to parks, for walks, to the local pond, and to birthday parties. Yes I also > babysit them and do up any dishes in the house (a woman’s dream come true > hmm). > Since seeing the single mother, and her 7 month old son, I have seen another > side of children. The crying all the time side. I thought I was so ready for > children after playing and spending time with 3-6 year old ones, but this > has changed my mind just about. He was born colic and is also teething, and > just won’t stop crying it seems. I went so far as to run to the local > Chapters store to read up on parenting books and how to cope. I know that > crying indicates a problem, and that is the sole way a child communicates. > Having already said that I adore children, and demnostrated that, I have to > say this crying is driving me batshit. I will not yell at the child, but I > do come close. I will turn around and say something like "what is it now?" > "why wont you stop crying" "what the hell is wrong with you?". I won’t yell, > but my tone of voice may be abrupt. > I have tried and tried to be patient, and I know when he gets older we will > get along fine. I walk him, play with him and feed him, and adore him, but > the crying is agony. And the mother gives me hell everytime. She does not > want him to grow up like she did, with a poor esteem. I know that they can > learn just from your tone of voice, and she fears that this will continue > into his older years as well. I am certain it will end when he stops crying > inexplicably. It is just the not knowing why he is crying that really REALLY > frustrates and annoys me. In my credit, I like to think I am making an > honest effort to find out how to overcome this, and to accept him (as he is > not mine), and I really care for the mother. So what would you suggest??? > Thanks > (if you reply, change noreply.com to canada.com)

Response:

Hi. I am going to post this to relevant newsgroups, please forgive the related crosspost. I want as many answers as I can get. Here is the situation, I’m a 33 year old single male, seeing a 31 year old single mother. First of all, I adore children. I  like to think for a single male, I am very good with my time and children. I take my friends kids out to parks, for walks, to the local pond, and to birthday parties. Yes I also babysit them and do up any dishes in the house (a woman’s dream come true hmm). Since seeing the single mother, and her 7 month old son, I have seen another side of children. The crying all the time side. I thought I was so ready for children after playing and spending time with 3-6 year old ones, but this has changed my mind just about. He was born colic and is also teething, and just won’t stop crying it seems. I went so far as to run to the local Chapters store to read up on parenting books and how to cope. I know that crying indicates a problem, and that is the sole way a child communicates. Having already said that I adore children, and demnostrated that, I have to say this crying is driving me batshit. I will not yell at the child, but I do come close. I will turn around and say something like "what is it now?" "why wont you stop crying" "what the hell is wrong with you?". I won’t yell, but my tone of voice may be abrupt. I have tried and tried to be patient, and I know when he gets older we will get along fine. I walk him, play with him and feed him, and adore him, but the crying is agony. And the mother gives me hell everytime. She does not want him to grow up like she did, with a poor esteem. I know that they can learn just from your tone of voice, and she fears that this will continue into his older years as well. I am certain it will end when he stops crying inexplicably. It is just the not knowing why he is crying that really REALLY frustrates and annoys me. In my credit, I like to think I am making an honest effort to find out how to overcome this, and to accept him (as he is not mine), and I really care for the mother. So what would you suggest??? Thanks (if you reply, change noreply.com to canada.com)

Response:

Hi Sara, My first child used to sleep with me in the beginning, and I became a very light sleeper because I was always afraid I was going to roll over her.  I had nightmares as well, including the baby drowning, being scalded by me not monitoring the temperature in the bath, finding my baby in a tree one day just teetering on the edge, aaaallll kinds of wierd hocus pocus.  If your a new parent, it’s typical of new parents from what I’ve heard.  Try B-Complex with Vitamin C in it.  It’s the anti-stress vitamin in my book. If you have someone harping on you about being a bad parent, that doesn’t help either. The more love you give your child, and the more fun times you have together, the better your relationship and family life will be.  That is what counts. Yes, you have other duties as a parent, don’t get desperate about them if everything is going fine though.   There isn’t only one "right way" to be a parent.  But the good times are what you will be remembered for.  Relax! Have fun! Don’t be anxious about it.  A family is a wonderful thing to create – and it’s yours for the creating.  Your child will be happy when you are. Best, Aye – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I just feel so overcome today. I love my DD so much – she’s nine months > now. I feel that my parents screwed my up in many ways and I’m > terrified that I will do the same to her. She so pure and innocent and > undamaged now. > I had a dream last night that she drowned due to my negligence and I > can’t get rid of it. I’m worried that I don’t talk to her enough, that > she’s not getting enough nutrition, that she’s not hearing enough > music, that I’m not setting the groundwork for future discipline, that > I’m not making her laugh enough,etc… > We have fun. We go to baby music and swimming lessons. I just can’t > feel good about myself as a parent. I can’t relax and accept myself. > Anyone else going through anything similar? > XOXOXO > Sara

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> Who in the world would say that is wrong? And if they did, TOUGH SHIT. Sorry > for the dirty language. You are the mother. You are in charge. Do not let > any other insensitive SOBs tell you you are doing something wrong and > undermine your confidence. Preserving your own self is one of the kinder > things you can do for your child, in my opinion.

Thanks, I agree. xoxox Sara

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Thanks for your good advice and kinds words, Dorothy. xoxo Sara

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Thanks, Lee. Wow, we had a great day today. No sleep last night but DD was in a happy mood despite having the sniffles. She went mad with a little boy in a restuarant who was singing Sex Bomb (!) to her. She laughed and laughed. 9 months old and already a flirt. XOXOX Sara

Response:

>I’m pretty sure my insecurities stem from two places: >1) My parents were extremely critical of my as a child. >Nothing I did was ever good enough. >2) Since I don’t want to parent the way my parents parented >I’m basically starting from scratch. I’ve read loads of books >and some of them were very helpful, some just made things >worse.

 i refuse to read parenting books the articles in magazines are bad enough… learn to trust your instincts. you probably have a pretty good idea of what your parents did "wrong" (i’m putting that in quotes because maybe they were following the fad parenting deal of thier day), so you know you don’t want to subject your daughter to that. you obviously know praise is a better motivator than criticism. >The whole "how much of your self should you sacrifice for >your child," issue is a real sore-point. Sleep deprevation >made me very depressed and sick for several months but I >didn’t want to sleep train DD. Of course I was tempted and >the temptation made me feel guilty. I never did it and now >she’s starting to sleep longer and fall asleep on her own as >opposed to on the breast. So, there’s one decision I’m happy >that I made.

oh, *don’t* beat yourself up over things that you feel/think while sleep-deprived. that’s so unfair to yourself. you’ll feel much better as she gets older & sleeps better.  i missed how old your DD is. my son is almost 6 months. he doesn’t sleep through the night. he doesn’t sleep on his own & i can’t set him down for a nap. he sleeps on my lap. sometimes i get a little frustrated that i can’t work on things i would like to because i have a baby on my lap constantly… but he’ll outgrow it soon enough & then i’ll miss it. in the meantime, i’m doing webpage design because i can do that with him on my lap. (he already has a computer game, too, but dad & i are both geeks) >I have started giving myself permission to have "off" days, >especially if she’s had a sleepless night and I’m exhausted. >By an "off" day I mean that I’ll let her play on her own >instead of playing with her and I’ll probably chat to her >less than on other days. I’ve also started going out on my >own to a movie now and then and leaving DD with DH. I know >some people will say that that is wrong but I feel that it is >necessary for my mental health and thus, for my baby’s well >being.

 sounds to me like you’re doing just fine. you can’t be perfect mommy all the time, especially if you’re tired or feeling ill. it’s actually good for DD to play by herself. remember you don’t have to be part of everything she does  and leaving her with daddy while you go to a movie is good for both of them. daddy needs time with her too. >Anyway, I’m doing much better now. I find that the happier my >baby is the happier I am. She’s been teething so she’s been a >bit grumpy and I’ve therefore been depressed.

this too will pass B’s just started teething. i hope he stops teething on my nipples soon though lee

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>I’m pretty sure my insecurities stem from two places: >1) My parents were extremely critical of my as a child. Nothing I did >was ever good enough.

It’s good that you recognize where the insecurity comes from.   It is also very hard not to play those old tapes from your parents in your head and *think* you are not good enough to be a parent to your own child.   It sounds as if you are starting out well though. >2) Since I don’t want to parent the way my parents parented I’m >basically starting from scratch. I’ve read loads of books and some of >them were very helpful, some just made things worse.

Take what resonates with you and realize that you do know yourself and your child better than any book.   Take each piece of advice and see if it fits rather than using it just because it came from a particular book.  The most important thing in parenting is attitude. Respecting your child, listening to him or her and meeting his or her needs in ways that allow you to have your own needs met too are critical, imho. >The whole "how much of your self should you sacrifice for your child," >issue is a real sore-point.

Essentially this question gets answered as your child gets older with less and less each day, week, month and year.  Infants get their needs met immediately, but children do learn to wait and do learn to respect parent’s needs as they grow too.   >Sleep deprevation made me very depressed >and sick for several months but I didn’t want to sleep train DD. Of >course I was tempted and the temptation made me feel guilty. I never >did it and now she’s starting to sleep longer and fall asleep on her >own as opposed to on the breast. So, there’s one decision I’m happy >that I made.

It sounds like you made a good decision here and one that will stand you in good stead as she grows and gains more independence.  The infants who are held and allowed to develop their own sleep pattern seem to me to end up sleeping well according to their bodies needs rather than to some artificial pattern we create for them. >I have started giving myself permission to have "off" days, especially >if she’s had a sleepless night and I’m exhausted. By an "off" day I >mean that I’ll let her play on her own instead of playing with her and >I’ll probably chat to her less than on other days. I’ve also started >going out on my own to a movie now and then and leaving DD with DH. I >know some people will say that that is wrong but I feel that it is >necessary for my mental health and thus, for my baby’s well being.

I can’t imagine anyone saying that this is wrong.  First, of course, infants need some independent play.  Second, daughters need to bond with their fathers too.   It seems to me that this works for both you and your baby. >Anyway, I’m doing much better now. I find that the happier my baby is >the happier I am. She’s been teething so she’s been a bit grumpy and >I’ve therefore been depressed.

Teething though will have to just be gotten through by both of you. Try some of the remedies like teethers that can be frozen or teething biscuits for her to bite.  She will be fussy, but after all it hurts, so wouldn’t you be?   Distracting her with play helps too when she is especially fussy since if she is busy she won’t concentrate on the pain so much. Good luck.  It seems like you are off to a good start. I’m going to repost my positive parenting post once more in this thread and please feel free to use what you like of it and discard anything that doesn’t feel right in it. >XOXOOX >Sara

Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. source unknown

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Here is the list once again.  FWIW, when I began this, my own children were infants.  I was skeptical about these methods.  But I have been using them now for almost 30 years.  They work.  And they work with kids who have been in very bad environments and kids who are in good ones.   They work with crack babies.  They work with gang teens.  They are more effective than the behaviorist techniques that are used to try to *control* behavior because they *teach* self-control and self-discipline. It helps if they are used early from the beginning, but they are also often effective in turning kids lives around after abuse and/or neglect has left them with poor skills and poor self-esteem As paradoxical as it sounds, the more control you can give to a child the less oppositional and defiant he is likely to be…   For a *typical* child who is simply oppositional because he needs autonomy, the best techniques are to give him as much control of his own actions as possible. This is done by giving him choices and by acknowledging his feelings respectfully and by allowing him warning about transitions that are coming up… I am reproducing something here that is intended for parents, but which expresses my philosophy and methods in both parenting and teaching.. Please realize that this is NOT original though I have added to it along the way and reworded freely from many sources. Also realize that you have to take only what resonates with your own style and that this list is not intended to be a formula or a definitive list of all possible techniques that someone can use with children… It is the attitude that is important, imho and I am constantly refining this list as I find new things that fit with it on the mail rings and on the newsgroups I frequent Positive Parenting The idea  of these methods is to be proactive and not reactive. To empower the child rather than to control his behavior.  To see the child’s individual needs and abilities rather than to use some general techniques.  To adapt these things to particular situations using the basic principle of  respect for the child’s feelings and human rights.  Part of this is simply a change in the way you speak to your child and in the attitude that you show toward him when you *really* look at him and listen to him carefully. Mostly, this boils down to LISTEN to your child and RESPECT his unique needs and feelings. First, model the behavior you want your child to emulate. Children learn what they live.  Teach by example, not words. Second, always try to look for the underlying cause of the behavior and address that so that the need is actually met in acceptable ways.  Assume your child is *good* even when his behavior doesn’t meet your standards. Third, state your rules and requests in positive ways, not negative ones – Please walk is always more effective than don’t run. Fourth, explain on the child’s developmental level exactly what you want done again in positive terms – state what he can do, not what he can’t do.  Get down on the child’s physical level and look at him when you explain.  Know your child’s abilities and don’t underestimate his understand and talk down to him or her, but do look at him when you are speaking and explain in vocabulary that he or she understands. Fifth, redirect a child who is doing something that you dislike to something he *can* do now instead of what he is doing. Give the child choices between many things that are acceptable to you and he won’t have to find something that is unacceptable so that he can have control.  Whenever possible, let the child decide on what he should do even if the choice he makes is different from what you think is the *best* one.  Children learn from making choices Sixth, give your child warnings of transitions so that they become easier to manage.  Children need time to *finish* what they are doing.  Persistence in doing a task is a virtue and should be encouraged.  So try to allow children to finish what they start even when it is *just* a game. Seventh, allow for time-outs when your emotions or the child’s are out of control.  Time-outs can be used non-punitively to allow both the adult and child to regain control of their emotions.  Let the child control the amount of time he stays in the time-out.  Give him the control and he may put himself in time-out when he feels he needs it without your having to initiate this at all.  Use it yourself too if your own emotions fly out of control.  It’s a great way to calm *yourself* down.  And apologize when you make a mistake or fly off the handle.  Children will forgive you and you will have given them an example of how we interact and accept mistakes forgiving ourselves for them and making amends when we can. Eighth, say what you mean and mean what you say.  Don’t give a lot of warnings, give one and then act.  Act in a way that conveys a positive message, but do act.  Make sure that you can and do carry out any action that you tell your child you *will* do. Ninth, plan for situations before they arise.  Try to have some idea of what you will do so that you can stay calm and not react in anger.  When you do need to change the child’s behavior do so calmly and quickly.  Pick up a young child and remove him from the situation or redirect him to some positive activity without yelling and without anger.  Talk in a reasonable and normal tone of voice. convey the message of love with your voice and your body. Tenth, as your child grows, try to involve him in planning the rules that are necessary.  Let him make some of the decisions within reasonable guidelines so that he begins to trust his own feelings about what is right and what is wrong.  You can use role-playing and dramatic play to help your child figure out what she can do when situations come up that are difficult for her.  Always involve her in solving the problem.  Let her brainstorm different things she can do and then let her choose from the acceptable alternatives she comes up with. Search for discipline on this site or read some of the articles related to spanking and parenting.  There is a study of the long term results of responsive parenting also which supports some of the results that I’ve seen with children http://naturalchild.com/home/ Try the following URLs for effective ways to discipline children without spanking or yelling http://home1.gte.net/clarkjs/discipln.htm http://www.loveandlogic.com/Pages/0200articles.html And try the discipline links on the web site below  for a great list of books that you can use to help you chose methods that work for you http://www.ll.net/morpheus/family/naturalmothering.html Two good resource books are: How To Talk So Kids Will Listen And Listen So Kids Will Talk and How To Talk So Kids Will Learn by  Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. Siblings without Rivalry by the same authors is also helpful. This particular post is copywrited by me and is now published on Ghostwolf’s web site in the section on insights along with several posts by Silenced.   For those interested in child sexual abuse his web site is not for the faint hearted, but is a strong and powerful story of one man’s fight out of the abyss…  His art and poetry are amazing and his story is of a voice that will not be silenced by those who refuse to believe..  If you visit his web site, please let him know how you feel about it by signing his quest book. http://www.nemasys.com/ghostwolf/ For a anyone who does care about children who have been abused, the following web site may also be of interest.  Her poetry too is not for the faint of heart, but speaks directly about what has happened to her. http://www.angelfire.com/zine/silencedchild/index.html Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. source unknown

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I’m pretty sure my insecurities stem from two places: > 1) My parents were extremely critical of my as a child. Nothing I did > was ever good enough. > 2) Since I don’t want to parent the way my parents parented I’m > basically starting from scratch. I’ve read loads of books and some of > them were very helpful, some just made things worse. > The whole "how much of your self should you sacrifice for your child," > issue is a real sore-point. Sleep deprevation made me very depressed > and sick for several months but I didn’t want to sleep train DD. Of > course I was tempted and the temptation made me feel guilty. I never > did it and now she’s starting to sleep longer and fall asleep on her > own as opposed to on the breast. So, there’s one decision I’m happy > that I made. > I have started giving myself permission to have "off" days, especially > if she’s had a sleepless night and I’m exhausted. By an "off" day I > mean that I’ll let her play on her own instead of playing with her and > I’ll probably chat to her less than on other days. I’ve also started > going out on my own to a movie now and then and leaving DD with DH. I > know some people will say that that is wrong but I feel that it is > necessary for my mental health and thus, for my baby’s well being.

Who in the world would say that is wrong? And if they did, TOUGH SHIT. Sorry for the dirty language. You are the mother. You are in charge. Do not let any other insensitive SOBs tell you you are doing something wrong and undermine your confidence. Preserving your own self is one of the kinder things you can do for your child, in my opinion. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Anyway, I’m doing much better now. I find that the happier my baby is > the happier I am. She’s been teething so she’s been a bit grumpy and > I’ve therefore been depressed. > XOXOOX > Sara

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I haven’t posted here for a bit and so I feel like a posted response from > Steve is an honorary welcome back.  As I was reading through I saw that you > had lost 1.5 lb preemie years ago and I wanted to say I am sorry for your > loss.  Very sorry for your loss.  My son had terrible lungs, too, but I > realize we are fortunate to have oscillating vents and the surfactant and > things like that nowadays…because my 1 lber would not have made it > otherwise…he was a 24 weeker.  You might be surprised, but I actually > respect your opinion on this, not that our parenting styles are any near > alike, and not that we agree what is bad or what is good, but I also think > you took this to the nth degree because of course things like abuse is > wrong, etc., but that is not what was intended by the title.  I have the > gnawing fear a lot that I will lose my son after how hard he fought to make > it, and sometimes this comes out in dreams as your above post mentioned. > Traci

Yeah, the dreams get you more than reality about stuff like that. It’s like you can control it when you’re awake, but when you’re asleep you’re helpless. Steve

Response:

I’m pretty sure my insecurities stem from two places: 1) My parents were extremely critical of my as a child. Nothing I did was ever good enough. 2) Since I don’t want to parent the way my parents parented I’m basically starting from scratch. I’ve read loads of books and some of them were very helpful, some just made things worse. The whole "how much of your self should you sacrifice for your child," issue is a real sore-point. Sleep deprevation made me very depressed and sick for several months but I didn’t want to sleep train DD. Of course I was tempted and the temptation made me feel guilty. I never did it and now she’s starting to sleep longer and fall asleep on her own as opposed to on the breast. So, there’s one decision I’m happy that I made. I have started giving myself permission to have "off" days, especially if she’s had a sleepless night and I’m exhausted. By an "off" day I mean that I’ll let her play on her own instead of playing with her and I’ll probably chat to her less than on other days. I’ve also started going out on my own to a movie now and then and leaving DD with DH. I know some people will say that that is wrong but I feel that it is necessary for my mental health and thus, for my baby’s well being. Anyway, I’m doing much better now. I find that the happier my baby is the happier I am. She’s been teething so she’s been a bit grumpy and I’ve therefore been depressed. XOXOOX Sara

Response:

:… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I think if your negative feelings persist, you should seek some help. It > wont be good for her or you to go through life like this.  Do you have any > concrete evidence that you are not doinga good job? > christine > > I just feel so overcome today. I love my DD so much – she’s nine months > > now. I feel that my parents screwed my up in many ways and I’m > > terrified that I will do the same to her. She so pure and innocent and > > undamaged now. > Well… I’d kinda disagree with christine…  Sounds like your self-esteem > is real low and my guess is you don’t feel the greatest about alot of things > you do.  Seeking help may work but overall you need positive people in your > life and those who can really give you good feedback on your strong points > on a regular basis. Professionals can be overrated for the these tasks. > This will help you to have better self-talk and better introspection on your > parenting so those times where you feel crummy about yourself as a  parent > lessen. > Also… parenting is hard work.  I notice at times I do things I wish I > hadn’t done as a parent.  Some of my parents attitudes come up when I talk > with my older daughter.  I have to work to change that.  We have to really > work at our parenting skills and work to drop the stuff our parents drummed > into us that we don’t like.  I think the feeling on an occassional basis > that we aren’t doing well is there to keep us questioning ourselves when we > are looking at this little person who is so vulnerable and needy.  When we > do this questioning though hopefully we either say…   " NAH… I’m doing > great" or "wow  I’d like to change that behavior…"  Experiencing feelings > of inadequacy are usually signs that we are doing something new or something > we feel is really important.  Overdoing the feelings of inadequacy though > isn’t good.  That’s where girlfriends and other people come in who can help > us feel a little better about ourselves.

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I haven’t posted here for a bit and so I feel like a posted response from Steve is an honorary welcome back.  As I was reading through I saw that you had lost 1.5 lb preemie years ago and I wanted to say I am sorry for your loss.  Very sorry for your loss.  My son had terrible lungs, too, but I realize we are fortunate to have oscillating vents and the surfactant and things like that nowadays…because my 1 lber would not have made it otherwise…he was a 24 weeker.  You might be surprised, but I actually respect your opinion on this, not that our parenting styles are any near alike, and not that we agree what is bad or what is good, but I also think you took this to the nth degree because of course things like abuse is wrong, etc., but that is not what was intended by the title.  I have the gnawing fear a lot that I will lose my son after how hard he fought to make it, and sometimes this comes out in dreams as your above post mentioned. Traci Come Join the Fun at… http://www.parenthoodweb.com Log Directly into Chat at… http://phw2.parenthoodweb.com:4080/chat/world/html/login_orginal.html

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> I think if your negative feelings persist, you should seek some help.  It > wont be good for her or you to go through life like this.  Do you have any > concrete evidence that you are not doinga good job? > christine

> I just feel so overcome today. I love my DD so much – she’s nine months > now. I feel that my parents screwed my up in many ways and I’m > terrified that I will do the same to her. She so pure and innocent and > undamaged now.

Well… I’d kinda disagree with christine…  Sounds like your self-esteem is real low and my guess is you don’t feel the greatest about alot of things you do.  Seeking help may work but overall you need positive people in your life and those who can really give you good feedback on your strong points on a regular basis. Professionals can be overrated for the these tasks. This will help you to have better self-talk and better introspection on your parenting so those times where you feel crummy about yourself as a  parent lessen. Also… parenting is hard work.  I notice at times I do things I wish I hadn’t done as a parent.  Some of my parents attitudes come up when I talk with my older daughter.  I have to work to change that.  We have to really work at our parenting skills and work to drop the stuff our parents drummed into us that we don’t like.  I think the feeling on an occassional basis that we aren’t doing well is there to keep us questioning ourselves when we are looking at this little person who is so vulnerable and needy.  When we do this questioning though hopefully we either say…   " NAH… I’m doing great" or "wow  I’d like to change that behavior…"  Experiencing feelings of inadequacy are usually signs that we are doing something new or something we feel is really important.  Overdoing the feelings of inadequacy though isn’t good.  That’s where girlfriends and other people come in who can help us feel a little better about ourselves.

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I always wonder if can do any better, and always try to do the best, but I love him so much and do want to make sure I give him the best opportunities at least from a parental perspective!  I just passed this chat to someone on another newsgroup for a  totally unrelated thing but maybe you would want to join in…Sylvia Claire is hosting a chat at parenthoodweb.com on february 16 at 4:00 pm pst…the topic is "There is no Wrong Way to Parent your Child.." and maybe you could come by and join the circle and get some other perspectives.  :-) Traci Come Join the Fun at… http://www.parenthoodweb.com Log Directly into Chat at… http://phw2.parenthoodweb.com:4080/chat/world/html/login_orginal.html

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> 16 at 4:00 pm pst…the topic is "There is no Wrong Way to Parent your > Child.." and maybe you could come by and join the circle and get some other > perspectives.  :-) > Traci

Of COURSE there are WRONG ways to parent a child!!! Where the hell did you think the vicious evil kids come from, anyway!???? Did you imagine some of them are simply "bad seed"? Or were you afraid to tell someone what a load of CRAP they believe in!?? Dumb! Steve

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i have the dreams as well, i dream that there is some danger and i leave the scene without taking DS.  he is 8 months old.  But i dont have those feelings normally. I think if your negative feelings persist, you should seek some help.  It wont be good for her or you to go through life like this.  Do you have any concrete evidence that you are not doinga good job? christine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I just feel so overcome today. I love my DD so much – she’s nine months > now. I feel that my parents screwed my up in many ways and I’m > terrified that I will do the same to her. She so pure and innocent and > undamaged now. > I had a dream last night that she drowned due to my negligence and I > can’t get rid of it. I’m worried that I don’t talk to her enough, that > she’s not getting enough nutrition, that she’s not hearing enough > music, that I’m not setting the groundwork for future discipline, that > I’m not making her laugh enough,etc… > We have fun. We go to baby music and swimming lessons. I just can’t > feel good about myself as a parent. I can’t relax and accept myself. > Anyone else going through anything similar? > XOXOXO > Sara

Response:

> Well I hope you’re normal because I have the same type of dreams! > Last week I dreamt I dropped my 7 month old on a cement floor. > I was screaming and wailing in my dream which woke me up. > She is my second daughter, and I have similar concerns about both of them. > I’m just doing the best that I can, while constantly researching via books, > internet and other parents. > Rose

That reminds me, I had a dream not too long ago that my son had died in infancy and was reborn in successive babies several times and died of something unnamed after growing up a little more each time. I awoke in a cold sweat in state of panic and horror and had to search my mind for the truth to calm myself. It was just like over and over he just wasn’t viable or something, and as soon as I said that to myself I realized what my mind had done. We had a 1.5 pound premie the year before our son was born back in 1972 who only lived a short span of days necause of lung development, and which we watched die and buried ourselves on our friend’s land, and we worried the same thing might happen again all during our next and finally successful pregnancy. My mind had transposed that old fear into a repeating dream cycle. I had that dream less than a year ago, and my son is 26 and hasn’t lived with either of us for well over 7 years!! Parental worries last forever! They never really go away! Steve

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 <snip> >I had that dream less than a year ago, and my son is 26 and hasn’t lived >with either of us for well over 7 years!! Parental worries last forever! >They never really go away! >Steve

Isn’t that the truth!!  I’ve had similar dreams, too.  I don’t think I ever really knew what worry or fear were until my kids were born!

Response:

Thanks to those of you who were sympathetic and said nice things. I’m feeling better today, probably because my husband just got back from a business trip. I know I’m doing the best that I can – and if I’m worried that I’m not talking to her enough I just talk to her some more. It’s hard to accept that perfection isn’t attainable. She’s loved and cared for by many people so we’re doing everything we can to help her develop into a healthy adult. XOXOXO Sara

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Everyone has bad days, or moments when they feel overwhelmed by the task of parenting. It is natural to have occasional worries. It is particularly bad if you have an introspective personality, tend to perfectionism, or are highly self critical.  I frequently wonder if I’m doing enough or whether I could do things differently. The secret is not to fret on it, but to evaluate reasonably, to make operative decisions and to accept that parenting is an ongoing process — no real harm is done in one day/week/month of insufficient stimulation or discipline, and you always get another chance at doing better tomorrow. Just do the best you can and you’ll feel better and better about it in time as you watch your child grow. If you are frequently worried or anxious or having frequent bad dreams, you might think about talking to a counsellor, particularly if you are isolated and have few friends to talk to. You might be depressed. –Lisa Bell – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I just feel so overcome today. I love my DD so much – she’s nine months >now. I feel that my parents screwed my up in many ways and I’m >terrified that I will do the same to her. She so pure and innocent and >undamaged now. >I had a dream last night that she drowned due to my negligence and I >can’t get rid of it. I’m worried that I don’t talk to her enough, that >she’s not getting enough nutrition, that she’s not hearing enough >music, that I’m not setting the groundwork for future discipline, that >I’m not making her laugh enough,etc… >We have fun. We go to baby music and swimming lessons. I just can’t >feel good about myself as a parent. I can’t relax and accept myself. >Anyone else going through anything similar? >XOXOXO >Sara

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Well I hope you’re normal because I have the same type of dreams! Last week I dreamt I dropped my 7 month old on a cement floor. I was screaming and wailing in my dream which woke me up. She is my second daughter, and I have similar concerns about both of them. I’m just doing the best that I can, while constantly researching via books, internet and other parents. Rose – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I just feel so overcome today. I love my DD so much – she’s nine months > now. I feel that my parents screwed my up in many ways and I’m > terrified that I will do the same to her. She so pure and innocent and > undamaged now. > I had a dream last night that she drowned due to my negligence and I > can’t get rid of it. I’m worried that I don’t talk to her enough, that > she’s not getting enough nutrition, that she’s not hearing enough > music, that I’m not setting the groundwork for future discipline, that > I’m not making her laugh enough,etc… > We have fun. We go to baby music and swimming lessons. I just can’t > feel good about myself as a parent. I can’t relax and accept myself. > Anyone else going through anything similar? > XOXOXO > Sara

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I just feel so overcome today. I love my DD so much – she’s nine months > now. I feel that my parents screwed my up in many ways and I’m > terrified that I will do the same to her. She so pure and innocent and > undamaged now. > I had a dream last night that she drowned due to my negligence and I > can’t get rid of it. I’m worried that I don’t talk to her enough, that > she’s not getting enough nutrition, that she’s not hearing enough > music, that I’m not setting the groundwork for future discipline, that > I’m not making her laugh enough,etc… > We have fun. We go to baby music and swimming lessons. I just can’t > feel good about myself as a parent. I can’t relax and accept myself. > Anyone else going through anything similar? > XOXOXO > Sara

Your dream shows you are a good mommy. You worry about swimming her even when you’re with her. Good, that’s the way it’s supposed to be. Stop worrying about such dreams and fears and just have them and realize that they mean you’re normal and good. You’re doing fine. Make sure pools have a fence and a locked gate whever you go with her and wherever she goes till she’s older. She may think she can swim better than she can while she’s still tiny. Steve

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> just feel so overcome today.

We all have days that we feel overcome..especially as parents.  I love my DD so much – she’s nine months >now. I feel that my parents screwed my up in many ways and I’m >terrified that I will do the same to her.

It sounds as if you have some unresolved issues with your parents.  If you are walking around with anger and resentment, this quite possibly will be passed on to your daughter in some way, shape or form.  If you have moved on and are not walking around bitter about your past (whether consciously or unconciously), you will be able to take how you were parented, and rescript your role as her mother.  Take what you didn’t like and turn it into a positive.  Take what you liked and use is.  Very few of us were completely horribly parented.   She so pure and innocent and >undamaged now.

That is the beauty of childhood. >I had a dream last night that she drowned due to my negligence and I >can’t get rid of it.

It is very normal to dream about the things that we are too afraid to think of in our waking hours.  Having dreams such as this is common from time to time. If they are persistent, such as nightly or several times a week, I would entertain the thoughts of talking to a counselor.  I’m worried that I don’t talk to her enough, that >she’s not getting enough nutrition, that she’s not hearing enough >music, that I’m not setting the groundwork for future discipline, that >I’m not making her laugh enough,etc…

I do not think that it is abnormal to wonder if we are doing good enough for our children.  I don’t know if you constantly worry or if this is just your bad day.  Obssessing over things such as this are not too healthy.  If it is constant…again, I would recommend talking to a professional. >We have fun. We go to baby music and swimming lessons. I just can’t >feel good about myself as a parent. I can’t relax and accept myself.

This sounds like your esteem and not so much worrying about baby.  That is good that you have fun…continue to find things that are fun.  I highly recommend finding a mommy and me group that meets weekly.  Call your local social service agencies to find out what groups are available and where.  The meetings are every bit as much for babies as they are for the grown ups.  Are you isolated from other adults most of the time?  Have you been depressed since her birth? Do you know what post partum depression is?  Are you eating well?  Exercising? Socializing?  Are you married or a single parent?  Have you gone from working to staying at home? So many factors come in to play after the birth of a baby.  So much of it is positive and yes, some of it is negative.  It’s a big adjustment and some people adjust better than others. >Anyone else going through anything similar? >XOXOXO >Sara

I don’t know you or your situation well enough to tell you that you are fine and everything is normal.  If you are really worried and don’t seem to have the energy or discipline to calm yourself down when you start worrying, it would be a great idea to find a counselor to talk things over with.  I don’t believe that there is anyone who can’t benefit from talking to one from time to time. Good luck.  If nothing else, keep posting here and trying to connect with others jadelee

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I just feel so overcome today. I love my DD so much – she’s nine months now. I feel that my parents screwed my up in many ways and I’m terrified that I will do the same to her. She so pure and innocent and undamaged now. I had a dream last night that she drowned due to my negligence and I can’t get rid of it. I’m worried that I don’t talk to her enough, that she’s not getting enough nutrition, that she’s not hearing enough music, that I’m not setting the groundwork for future discipline, that I’m not making her laugh enough,etc… We have fun. We go to baby music and swimming lessons. I just can’t feel good about myself as a parent. I can’t relax and accept myself. Anyone else going through anything similar? XOXOXO Sara

Response:

I have a friend who seems to be going through the same thing.  Her daughter is now 15 months old and she hasn’t seemed to have had one minute of fun yet with her daughter.  She sees parenting as a project to be done *right*.  She doesn’t make a move without calling her pediatrician or checking what the child psychologist book that is flavor of the month says.  And she is miserable.  Actually about 2 weeks ago she accidentally spilt her cup of just-made hot tea on her daughter, giving her 2nd degree burns.  Now she’s even more convinced she’s a terrible mother. Personally I don’t *get* feeling that way.  As long as you know you’re doing your best, what’s there to get so anxious over?  But I bet how you’re feeling is probably pretty common. Later, Sophie mom to Charlotte (2.7 yrs) and Patrick (14 months)

Response:

You married him. You also blew whatever relationship you had with the boy’s father. It’s not normal for men to be willing to raise other men’s children. In fact, it’s biologically a fact that new males will frequently kill offspring from the old male.  It’s not logical to raise another man’s offspring. Step fathers and boyfriends are the most frequent killers of small children. Boys especially. It sounds to me that in time, this brain damaged lunk of yours might kill your son.  He has plenty of biological motivation to do so.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Myself and my childrens stepfather have very differing opinions on how to > raise children and what a childs actions may mean.  I am having trouble > understanding why he feels the way he does on certain things and was hoping > someone could give some incite on how they would feel in a certain > situation. Also,  I would like to help him understand my > feelings and I would like to understand his.. anyhow.. > When my son was 4 years old he came down with a bad case of the stomache > flu.. I brought him to the doctors when after a few days he was not eating > anything and pretty much laid there.  Getting anything down him was very > difficult.  Their step father thought I was being over zealous but agreed to > let me bring him eventually.  My son’s doctor said that my son was starting > to get dehydrated. > He was concerned but not enough to hospitalize him yet.  He was sent home > and the doctor told me to let him drink anything he wanted.  All the clear > liquids (including pop or jello) , pedialyte, popsicles anything.  He also > said that if he had the runs 6 more times over the next so many hours he was > to be brought to the emergency room, he told my son I was to check his bm’s > so he should not flush the toilet.  Anyhow we got home from the doctors > and my son immediately told his grandma that the doctor said he could drink > all the pop he wanted and that he was not to flush the toilet cuz mom had to > check it.  He then went to share the news with his step-dad.  At the time > his step dad had kidney stones and was not feeling very well himself. When > my son told him the news (which he thought himself being a 4 year old boy > was great news) his step-dad got very angry and told me in no uncertain > terms that my son was trying to rub it into him and was being very > disrespectful telling him something like that.  He took it personally as if > my son had told him this just to piss him off.  I personally did not see it > that way.  My son being a 4 yr. old boy was just shareing some news.. albeit > not the most pleasant to hear that any 4 year old would find a neat thing > and he just was shareing it with his step dad as he did myself,, and his > grandmother.  Anyhow. that evening my son ended up hospitalized for fairly > server dehydration and had to be rehydrated.  My problem is that I am not > sure how to deal witht the step father.  He is very insitent that this is a > downright mean thing my son did personally to him.  I have tried explaining > to him that it was just my son shareing with him the things the doctor told > him as he did with myself and my family that he was being nice not arrogant > to him. The step-father was very angry that I did not punish my son for the > behavior of telling him such a thing causing such disrepect This goes on in > many situations very similar.  We have seen a > counselor for a brief time.. however his step father felt the counselor was > ganging up on him when she told him that she felt my son was not attacking > him and was only shareing with him , his step-father then left the > counseling very angry refusing to return.  I would like other peoples > opinions on > this situation.  I am hoping either I can get insite on how he feels the way > he does or that I will have some more knowledge from others to show my > husband that he may need to take things less personally and accept a 4 yr. > olds way of thinking is nothing more then his maturity level.  By the way, > their step father does have a closed-head injury which I personally feel > does affect the way he perceives a childs behavior.. I think he takes things > too personally and blows them up to more then they amount to. > Help…..

Response:

> You married him. You also blew whatever relationship you had with the boy’s > father. > It’s not normal for men to be willing to raise other men’s children. In > fact, it’s biologically a fact that new males will frequently kill offspring > from the old male.  It’s not logical to raise another man’s offspring. > Step fathers and boyfriends are the most frequent killers of small children. > Boys especially. It sounds to me that in time, this brain damaged lunk of > yours might kill your son.  He has plenty of biological motivation to do so.

The problem doesn’t come from any "biology", but instead only from his defective upbringing. Lots of ape groups who are the closest species to human can adopt other children and do wonderfully with them, in fact most little ones the older males play with and nurture are not even theirs! This notion of Elaines is true for lions and predators, but not for apes like us. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Myself and my childrens stepfather have very differing opinions on how to > raise children and what a childs actions may mean.  I am having trouble > understanding why he feels the way he does on certain things and was > hoping > someone could give some incite on how they would feel in a certain > situation. Also,  I would like to help him understand my > feelings and I would like to understand his.. anyhow.. > When my son was 4 years old he came down with a bad case of the stomache > flu.. I brought him to the doctors when after a few days he was not eating > anything and pretty much laid there.  Getting anything down him was very > difficult.  Their step father thought I was being over zealous but agreed > to > let me bring him eventually.  My son’s doctor said that my son was > starting > to get dehydrated. > He was concerned but not enough to hospitalize him yet.  He was sent home > and the doctor told me to let him drink anything he wanted.  All the clear > liquids (including pop or jello) , pedialyte, popsicles anything.  He also > said that if he had the runs 6 more times over the next so many hours he > was > to be brought to the emergency room, he told my son I was to check his > bm’s > so he should not flush the toilet.  Anyhow we got home from the doctors > and my son immediately told his grandma that the doctor said he could > drink > all the pop he wanted and that he was not to flush the toilet cuz mom had > to > check it.  He then went to share the news with his step-dad.  At the time > his step dad had kidney stones and was not feeling very well himself. > When > my son told him the news (which he thought himself being a 4 year old boy > was great news) his step-dad got very angry and told me in no uncertain > terms that my son was trying to rub it into him and was being very > disrespectful telling him something like that.  He took it personally as > if > my son had told him this just to piss him off.  I personally did not see > it > that way.  My son being a 4 yr. old boy was just shareing some news.. > albeit > not the most pleasant to hear that any 4 year old would find a neat thing > and he just was shareing it with his step dad as he did myself,, and his > grandmother.  Anyhow. that evening my son ended up hospitalized for fairly > server dehydration and had to be rehydrated.  My problem is that I am not > sure how to deal witht the step father.  He is very insitent that this is > a > downright mean thing my son did personally to him.  I have tried > explaining > to him that it was just my son shareing with him the things the doctor > told > him as he did with myself and my family that he was being nice not > arrogant > to him. The step-father was very angry that I did not punish my son for > the > behavior of telling him such a thing causing such disrepect This goes on > in > many situations very similar.  We have seen a > counselor for a brief time.. however his step father felt the counselor > was > ganging up on him when she told him that she felt my son was not attacking > him and was only shareing with him , his step-father then left the > counseling very angry refusing to return.  I would like other peoples > opinions on > this situation.  I am hoping either I can get insite on how he feels the > way > he does or that I will have some more knowledge from others to show my > husband that he may need to take things less personally and accept a 4 yr. > olds way of thinking is nothing more then his maturity level.  By the way, > their step father does have a closed-head injury which I personally feel > does affect the way he perceives a childs behavior.. I think he takes > things > too personally and blows them up to more then they amount to. > Help…..

Response:

I Apologize – I didn’t read the bottom the post – I have to agree with Steve – you and your child could be in danger and you probably need to put some distance between yourself and your husband.  Steve is right about closed head injuries but this man sounds dangerous!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Myself and my childrens stepfather have very differing opinions on how to > raise children and what a childs actions may mean.  I am having trouble > understanding why he feels the way he does on certain things and was hoping > someone could give some incite on how they would feel in a certain > situation. Also,  I would like to help him understand my > feelings and I would like to understand his.. anyhow.. > When my son was 4 years old he came down with a bad case of the stomache > flu.. I brought him to the doctors when after a few days he was not eating > anything and pretty much laid there.  Getting anything down him was very > difficult.  Their step father thought I was being over zealous but agreed to > let me bring him eventually.  My son’s doctor said that my son was starting > to get dehydrated. > He was concerned but not enough to hospitalize him yet.  He was sent home > and the doctor told me to let him drink anything he wanted.  All the clear > liquids (including pop or jello) , pedialyte, popsicles anything.  He also > said that if he had the runs 6 more times over the next so many hours he was > to be brought to the emergency room, he told my son I was to check his bm’s > so he should not flush the toilet.  Anyhow we got home from the doctors > and my son immediately told his grandma that the doctor said he could drink > all the pop he wanted and that he was not to flush the toilet cuz mom had to > check it.  He then went to share the news with his step-dad.  At the time > his step dad had kidney stones and was not feeling very well himself.  When > my son told him the news (which he thought himself being a 4 year old boy > was great news) his step-dad got very angry and told me in no uncertain > terms that my son was trying to rub it into him and was being very > disrespectful telling him something like that.  He took it personally as if > my son had told him this just to piss him off.  I personally did not see it > that way.  My son being a 4 yr. old boy was just shareing some news.. albeit > not the most pleasant to hear that any 4 year old would find a neat thing > and he just was shareing it with his step dad as he did myself,, and his > grandmother.  Anyhow. that evening my son ended up hospitalized for fairly > server dehydration and had to be rehydrated.  My problem is that I am not > sure how to deal witht the step father.  He is very insitent that this is a > downright mean thing my son did personally to him.  I have tried explaining > to him that it was just my son shareing with him the things the doctor told > him as he did with myself and my family that he was being nice not arrogant > to him. The step-father was very angry that I did not punish my son for the > behavior of telling him such a thing causing such disrepect This goes on in > many situations very similar.  We have seen a > counselor for a brief time.. however his step father felt the counselor was > ganging up on him when she told him that she felt my son was not attacking > him and was only shareing with him , his step-father then left the > counseling very angry refusing to return.  I would like other peoples > opinions on > this situation.  I am hoping either I can get insite on how he feels the way > he does or that I will have some more knowledge from others to show my > husband that he may need to take things less personally and accept a 4 yr. > olds way of thinking is nothing more then his maturity level.  By the way, > their step father does have a closed-head injury which I personally feel > does affect the way he perceives a childs behavior.. I think he takes things > too personally and blows them up to more then they amount to. > Help…..

Response:

I have to tell you that your husband’s behavior is quite bizarre in the extreme, and you need to be worried about this.  For a grown man, sick or not, to react to something a child says in this manner is extreme cause for concern.  I’d be careful about leaving my son with him.  You need to get this out into more discussions and go from there about your husband’s feelings.  Not knowing him it is hard to make a determination. Has this been a problem before or did it just come out of nowhere? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Myself and my childrens stepfather have very differing opinions on how to > raise children and what a childs actions may mean.  I am having trouble > understanding why he feels the way he does on certain things and was hoping > someone could give some incite on how they would feel in a certain > situation. Also,  I would like to help him understand my > feelings and I would like to understand his.. anyhow.. > When my son was 4 years old he came down with a bad case of the stomache > flu.. I brought him to the doctors when after a few days he was not eating > anything and pretty much laid there.  Getting anything down him was very > difficult.  Their step father thought I was being over zealous but agreed to > let me bring him eventually.  My son’s doctor said that my son was starting > to get dehydrated. > He was concerned but not enough to hospitalize him yet.  He was sent home > and the doctor told me to let him drink anything he wanted.  All the clear > liquids (including pop or jello) , pedialyte, popsicles anything.  He also > said that if he had the runs 6 more times over the next so many hours he was > to be brought to the emergency room, he told my son I was to check his bm’s > so he should not flush the toilet.  Anyhow we got home from the doctors > and my son immediately told his grandma that the doctor said he could drink > all the pop he wanted and that he was not to flush the toilet cuz mom had to > check it.  He then went to share the news with his step-dad.  At the time > his step dad had kidney stones and was not feeling very well himself.  When > my son told him the news (which he thought himself being a 4 year old boy > was great news) his step-dad got very angry and told me in no uncertain > terms that my son was trying to rub it into him and was being very > disrespectful telling him something like that.  He took it personally as if > my son had told him this just to piss him off.  I personally did not see it > that way.  My son being a 4 yr. old boy was just shareing some news.. albeit > not the most pleasant to hear that any 4 year old would find a neat thing > and he just was shareing it with his step dad as he did myself,, and his > grandmother.  Anyhow. that evening my son ended up hospitalized for fairly > server dehydration and had to be rehydrated.  My problem is that I am not > sure how to deal witht the step father.  He is very insitent that this is a > downright mean thing my son did personally to him.  I have tried explaining > to him that it was just my son shareing with him the things the doctor told > him as he did with myself and my family that he was being nice not arrogant > to him. The step-father was very angry that I did not punish my son for the > behavior of telling him such a thing causing such disrepect This goes on in > many situations very similar.  We have seen a > counselor for a brief time.. however his step father felt the counselor was > ganging up on him when she told him that she felt my son was not attacking > him and was only shareing with him , his step-father then left the > counseling very angry refusing to return.  I would like other peoples > opinions on > this situation.  I am hoping either I can get insite on how he feels the way > he does or that I will have some more knowledge from others to show my > husband that he may need to take things less personally and accept a 4 yr. > olds way of thinking is nothing more then his maturity level.  By the way, > their step father does have a closed-head injury which I personally feel > does affect the way he perceives a childs behavior.. I think he takes things > too personally and blows them up to more then they amount to. > Help…..

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Myself and my childrens stepfather have very differing opinions on how to > raise children and what a childs actions may mean.  I am having trouble > understanding why he feels the way he does on certain things and was hoping > someone could give some incite on how they would feel in a certain > situation. Also,  I would like to help him understand my > feelings and I would like to understand his.. anyhow.. > When my son was 4 years old he came down with a bad case of the stomache > flu.. I brought him to the doctors when after a few days he was not eating > anything and pretty much laid there.  Getting anything down him was very > difficult.  Their step father thought I was being over zealous but agreed to > let me bring him eventually.  My son’s doctor said that my son was starting > to get dehydrated. > He was concerned but not enough to hospitalize him yet.  He was sent home > and the doctor told me to let him drink anything he wanted.  All the clear > liquids (including pop or jello) , pedialyte, popsicles anything.  He also > said that if he had the runs 6 more times over the next so many hours he was > to be brought to the emergency room, he told my son I was to check his bm’s > so he should not flush the toilet.  Anyhow we got home from the doctors > and my son immediately told his grandma that the doctor said he could drink > all the pop he wanted and that he was not to flush the toilet cuz mom had to > check it.  He then went to share the news with his step-dad.  At the time > his step dad had kidney stones and was not feeling very well himself.  When > my son told him the news (which he thought himself being a 4 year old boy > was great news) his step-dad got very angry and told me in no uncertain > terms that my son was trying to rub it into him and was being very > disrespectful telling him something like that.  He took it personally as if > my son had told him this just to piss him off.  I personally did not see it > that way.  My son being a 4 yr. old boy was just shareing some news.. albeit > not the most pleasant to hear that any 4 year old would find a neat thing > and he just was shareing it with his step dad as he did myself,, and his > grandmother.  Anyhow. that evening my son ended up hospitalized for fairly > server dehydration and had to be rehydrated.  My problem is that I am not > sure how to deal witht the step father.  He is very insitent that this is a > downright mean thing my son did personally to him.  I have tried explaining > to him that it was just my son shareing with him the things the doctor told > him as he did with myself and my family that he was being nice not arrogant > to him. The step-father was very angry that I did not punish my son for the > behavior of telling him such a thing causing such disrepect This goes on in > many situations very similar.  We have seen a > counselor for a brief time.. however his step father felt the counselor was > ganging up on him when she told him that she felt my son was not attacking > him and was only shareing with him , his step-father then left the > counseling very angry refusing to return.  I would like other peoples > opinions on > this situation.  I am hoping either I can get insite on how he feels the way > he does or that I will have some more knowledge from others to show my > husband that he may need to take things less personally and accept a 4 yr. > olds way of thinking is nothing more then his maturity level.  By the way, > their step father does have a closed-head injury which I personally feel > does affect the way he perceives a childs behavior.. I think he takes things > too personally and blows them up to more then they amount to. > Help…..

GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM THIS CLOWN!! He’s an immature self-involved sociopath! Anybody with such a paranoia of a little tiny genuine and ill 4-year old boy is a NUTCASE, and he will HARM YOU AND YOUR SON!!! Get rid of him!! And a closed head injury can damage the ability to know real from unreal and can make a person paranoid!! An adult male losing it at a counselor is enough evidence to GET OUT!! This is NOT mature adult behavior!! If he hasn’t hit you or your son yet, that’s NEXT!! Steve

Response:

It is troublesome that a grown adult would attempt to tag a small child with such deceptive adult behaviors as this. Could he possibly know nothing about children and development? If this behavior by SF continues, I would carefully watch the interaction between SF and DS. There could also be some very unhealthy competition created by SF for your attention. If you Must eventually choose, just remember, children are NOT replaceable and should be protected at ALL COSTS!! Good Luck!

Response:

This is going to be a difficult situation for you and your son. Is your husband under a physician’s care? If so, perhaps you can speak with the dr. about the behaviour you are observing and ask if this is normal for his condition. A four yr. old has no concept of what rude is. My son is four and while he may say something that I consider disrespectful, I know it is not intentional. It is important that you both be able to come to agreements about basic discipline issues, but from what you have posted here, I am not sure he is mentally or emotionally stable enough to do any compromising. If he is walking out of counseling, than that is a bad sign. He needs to be willing to discuss these issues. I don’t know that he will listen to a group of parents on the internet anymore than he is willing to listen to you or the counselor. He needs to realize he is dealing with a four yr. old and not a minature adult, who realizes the impact of their words. I wish the best for you and your family and hope some others here will have some good advice to help you. Deanna Mom of 4.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Myself and my childrens stepfather have very differing opinions on how to > raise children and what a childs actions may mean.  I am having trouble > understanding why he feels the way he does on certain things and was hoping > someone could give some incite on how they would feel in a certain > situation. Also,  I would like to help him understand my > feelings and I would like to understand his.. anyhow.. > When my son was 4 years old he came down with a bad case of the stomache > flu.. I brought him to the doctors when after a few days he was not eating > anything and pretty much laid there.  Getting anything down him was very > difficult.  Their step father thought I was being over zealous but agreed to > let me bring him eventually.  My son’s doctor said that my son was starting > to get dehydrated. > He was concerned but not enough to hospitalize him yet.  He was sent home > and the doctor told me to let him drink anything he wanted.  All the clear > liquids (including pop or jello) , pedialyte, popsicles anything.  He also > said that if he had the runs 6 more times over the next so many hours he was > to be brought to the emergency room, he told my son I was to check his bm’s > so he should not flush the toilet.  Anyhow we got home from the doctors > and my son immediately told his grandma that the doctor said he could drink > all the pop he wanted and that he was not to flush the toilet cuz mom had to > check it.  He then went to share the news with his step-dad.  At the time > his step dad had kidney stones and was not feeling very well himself. When > my son told him the news (which he thought himself being a 4 year old boy > was great news) his step-dad got very angry and told me in no uncertain > terms that my son was trying to rub it into him and was being very > disrespectful telling him something like that.  He took it personally as if > my son had told him this just to piss him off.  I personally did not see it > that way.  My son being a 4 yr. old boy was just shareing some news.. albeit > not the most pleasant to hear that any 4 year old would find a neat thing > and he just was shareing it with his step dad as he did myself,, and his > grandmother.  Anyhow. that evening my son ended up hospitalized for fairly > server dehydration and had to be rehydrated.  My problem is that I am not > sure how to deal witht the step father.  He is very insitent that this is a > downright mean thing my son did personally to him.  I have tried explaining > to him that it was just my son shareing with him the things the doctor told > him as he did with myself and my family that he was being nice not arrogant > to him. The step-father was very angry that I did not punish my son for the > behavior of telling him such a thing causing such disrepect This goes on in > many situations very similar.  We have seen a > counselor for a brief time.. however his step father felt the counselor was > ganging up on him when she told him that she felt my son was not attacking > him and was only shareing with him , his step-father then left the > counseling very angry refusing to return.  I would like other peoples > opinions on > this situation.  I am hoping either I can get insite on how he feels the way > he does or that I will have some more knowledge from others to show my > husband that he may need to take things less personally and accept a 4 yr. > olds way of thinking is nothing more then his maturity level.  By the way, > their step father does have a closed-head injury which I personally feel > does affect the way he perceives a childs behavior.. I think he takes things > too personally and blows them up to more then they amount to. > Help…..

Response:

writes: (snipped most for brevity) >I am hoping either I can get insite on how he feels the way >he does or that I will have some more knowledge from others to show my >husband that he may need to take things less personally and accept a 4 yr. >olds way of thinking is nothing more then his maturity level.  By the way, >their step father does have a closed-head injury which I personally feel >does affect the way he perceives a childs behavior.. I think he takes things >too personally and blows them up to more then they amount to.

I don’t really know that I can be of much help to you. I think that perhaps if we knew more about your husband and his background it might lend us a clue as to why he is reacting in such a manner to such an obviously innocent act on your son’s part. What type of background does he come from? Was he an only child? Has he ever spent much time at all around other children your son’s age? Has he ever read any parenting books or magazines? What is his age? Does he have an overly stressful job which might make him over-react to small things such as this? Is he on any medications that might cause these odd thoughts about your son’s intentions? I agree with the other poster who replied to you in that I seriously doubt if your husband will be interested in or influenced in any way by what posters in a newsgroup say. But……. Perhaps you could interest him in joining a parent/child playgroup with other children the same age as your son? This might enable him to see that children of this age think that *everything* is big news and worthy of telling their parents. You might suggest that he read up on children’s normal, typical behavior alittle. If your husband has siblings or close friends with children, perhaps you could talk to them and ask them to speak to him about it in a non-obtrusive manner?  If not, perhaps if *you* have siblings with children, and he feels comfortable around them…..maybe they could speak to him? If these things wouldn’t offend him and make him even angrier….they might be worth a shot. I really cannot imagine being married to such a man myself, but I hestitate to say much knowing so little about him. On the other hand….have you considered the possibility that the man’s just an overbearing asshole and that you and your son would be better off leaving? I mean no offense…. honestly….but if there *are* no over-riding circumstances that could be causing possibility that you may have to face up to. (leaving, I mean) JMO, Josie

Response:

Myself and my childrens stepfather have very differing opinions on how to raise children and what a childs actions may mean.  I am having trouble understanding why he feels the way he does on certain things and was hoping someone could give some incite on how they would feel in a certain situation. Also,  I would like to help him understand my feelings and I would like to understand his.. anyhow.. When my son was 4 years old he came down with a bad case of the stomache flu.. I brought him to the doctors when after a few days he was not eating anything and pretty much laid there.  Getting anything down him was very difficult.  Their step father thought I was being over zealous but agreed to let me bring him eventually.  My son’s doctor said that my son was starting to get dehydrated. He was concerned but not enough to hospitalize him yet.  He was sent home and the doctor told me to let him drink anything he wanted.  All the clear liquids (including pop or jello) , pedialyte, popsicles anything.  He also said that if he had the runs 6 more times over the next so many hours he was to be brought to the emergency room, he told my son I was to check his bm’s so he should not flush the toilet.  Anyhow we got home from the doctors and my son immediately told his grandma that the doctor said he could drink all the pop he wanted and that he was not to flush the toilet cuz mom had to check it.  He then went to share the news with his step-dad.  At the time his step dad had kidney stones and was not feeling very well himself.  When my son told him the news (which he thought himself being a 4 year old boy was great news) his step-dad got very angry and told me in no uncertain terms that my son was trying to rub it into him and was being very disrespectful telling him something like that.  He took it personally as if my son had told him this just to piss him off.  I personally did not see it that way.  My son being a 4 yr. old boy was just shareing some news.. albeit not the most pleasant to hear that any 4 year old would find a neat thing and he just was shareing it with his step dad as he did myself,, and his grandmother.  Anyhow. that evening my son ended up hospitalized for fairly server dehydration and had to be rehydrated.  My problem is that I am not sure how to deal witht the step father.  He is very insitent that this is a downright mean thing my son did personally to him.  I have tried explaining to him that it was just my son shareing with him the things the doctor told him as he did with myself and my family that he was being nice not arrogant to him. The step-father was very angry that I did not punish my son for the behavior of telling him such a thing causing such disrepect This goes on in many situations very similar.  We have seen a counselor for a brief time.. however his step father felt the counselor was ganging up on him when she told him that she felt my son was not attacking him and was only shareing with him , his step-father then left the counseling very angry refusing to return.  I would like other peoples opinions on this situation.  I am hoping either I can get insite on how he feels the way he does or that I will have some more knowledge from others to show my husband that he may need to take things less personally and accept a 4 yr. olds way of thinking is nothing more then his maturity level.  By the way, their step father does have a closed-head injury which I personally feel does affect the way he perceives a childs behavior.. I think he takes things too personally and blows them up to more then they amount to. Help…..

Response:

> When my son was 4 years old he came down with a bad case of the stomache > flu.. I brought him to the doctors when after a few days he was not eating > anything and pretty much laid there.  Getting anything down him was very > difficult.  Their step father thought I was being over zealous but agreed to > let me bring him eventually.

I have some questions: Why must you seek the step father’s permission to take your son to see a doctor? Do you love this man? > this situation.  I am hoping either I can get insite on how he feels the way > he does

It’s beyond me why any normal, healthy adult would be handling the situation the way "the step father" seems to be handling it. Perhaps it is the injury. Perhaps he just doesn’t know any better (but should be willing to learn). Or maybe he’s just plain ignorant, immature and/or a spoiled rotten. Perhaps someone in a less sarcastic mood will come along with a logical explanation and offer you some wisdom. But I fear you and your son are headed down a long, tough road. I admire your attempts at counseling. But if it were me, I’d fire up my Mazda and be gone by now.  or that I will have some more knowledge from others to show my > husband that he may need to take things less personally and accept a 4 yr. > olds way of thinking is nothing more then his maturity level.

Considering the possible maturity level and the fact he doesn’t want to listen to the counselor, I wouldn’t get my hopes up about offering him advice from online strangers.  By the way, > their step father does have a closed-head injury which I personally feel > does affect the way he perceives a childs behavior.. I think he takes things > too personally and blows them up to more then they amount to.

Hopefully someone knows something about these kinds of injuries. One thing to keep in mind tho — your concern is for both you and your child.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I need to know if I am being unreasonable … >My kids have been attending a preschool 2 days a week, for the past year >(without me).  They were by far the oldest in their class — which was only >7 kids, 3 of them mine, with 2 staff members — and everything went very >well.  So I enrolled them again for this Fall.  It will be a more mixed age >class and has, I believe, 15 kids with 2 staff members.  My kids will attend >three days and they turn 4 in October (a young 4, but still …). >To keep them in the routine, I enrolled them one day a week in summer camp >at the school.  This followed roughly the format for next year — more kids, >mixed ages. >Now the problem:  upto now, my kids have been raised to be very polite and >kind to each other and me — when they apologise to each other, they haven’t >yet worked out that you can do it in a nasty way.  Things like that.  Yet >from the very first day of summer school, Elliot has been behaving badly >when he comes home.  For example: >a)  If someone takes his toy and then gives it back, he pushes them anyway >(before they might have tussled but once the toy was given back he would >have said thanks and gone off). > It is poosible that this is simply a notmal testing phase or that > there is something going on at school..  How do you handle it when > this happens at home?

This kind of thing sprung into being the very day summer school started … but yes, a coincidence is possible.  At home, I get his attention — like kneel right in front of him holding his shoulders or hands and look him in the eye — and stare at him sternly and say "we don’t push, it’s not nice". OK, sometimes (not very helpfully I imagine) I say "I don’t care if the kids at school push.  It’s not nice and in this house *we* don’t push".  Then I suggest he apologise, which is not something he does easily.  And then I drop it. >b)  He sometimes speaks with an unacceptable tone and words.  Don’t get me >wrong — we are not talking swearing.  But if he is messing with my stuff >and I ask him to put something down, he slams it and stalks off saying "It’s >my <book, bowl, you-name-it ….>,  not yours.  It’s not yours.  It’s mine. >Mine.  Mine." over and over in a nasty tone. > This sounds like imitation of older children and probably from the > school..   But if so, while you can look at how the school handles > these incidents, it is once again more important how you handle it > when it happens at home.. So what do you do when this happens now?

Basically the same as for the pushing.  But I usually say "we talk nicely" or "we use nice voices", not "we don’t push".  ;-)  I see what you mean about the home environment … but if he’s in school 3 days a week next year ???? >It takes a couple of days, but by the weekend he is usually back to himself. >Then the cycle repeats the following week.  So I am worried that next school >year, this will be a bigger and harder-to-cure problem.  So I am considering >asking the school to look into it — either is he a) being picked on and >taking out his frustration when he gets home or b) observing other kids’ >behavior and copying it?  And in either case, why isn’t the school staff >stomping (nicely) on whoever is doing this? > Hopefully, the school is not going to *stomp* even nicely on the > people who are doing this, since that is not what is needed.

Sorry — just speaking loosely, Dorothy.  I consider what I do with Elliot now to be "stomping nicely", if that helps clarify any. > I would check into what kind of supervision the kids have and what > interventions are made when kids have a conflict.

I’ll ask since you don’t seem to think I’m being totally unreasonable. The best way for > schools to handle this is to acknowledge both children’s feelings > and to give them the words to deal with conflict more productively > if they are too young to have the words already.   Kids can learn to > work out conflicts peacefully, but adults have to help them a bit > when they are young.. > If the teachers are receptive to new ways of doing things and are > not already award of the techniques, you might buy them a copy > of How to Talk So Kids Will Learn by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. > It has practical interventions for the classroom though for > elementary school age children primarily.  The examples are still > good ones that can be used with younger kids also.’

I know the book.  Will take a look and talk to the school. >Isn’t that part of their job or am I expecting too much? > It is most certainly part of their job.. But summer camps are > generally a bit looser than the classrooms during the year and > often they are staffed by college students or older high school > kids under the supervision of a single teacher instead of by > a teacher and an aide as might be the case during the school > year.  I can’t know that this is the case for your program, but it > could be that this is part of the problem and that the school year > class will have less problems if this is true.

On further reflection, I think the teacher:child ratio *is* higher in the summer camp because the teachers seem only to do a half day and only one of the two aides seems to be there at any one time, too.  So I guess inevitably they supervise less closely, but basically it’s the same staff, who are all supposed to be highly qualified …  So maybe things *will* be better in the Fall when the class size drops … what’s a good adult:child ratio for this age (4)? –Janet Elliot, Hanna, Connor  (10/21/96) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Dorothy > There is no sound, no cry in all the world > that can be heard unless someone listens .. > source unknown

Response:

Janet, Unfortunately, when children are exposed to other children in any school system they will pick up both good and bad habits.  It is difficult for the teachers to correct bad behavior because they are limited to what they can do as far as punishment.  Usually the extent of punishment allowed (by law) is timeout for the same minutes of their age (2 years old equals 2 minutes for time out).  Most children don’t find this much of a punishment.  It is primarily up to the parents of the child who is misbehaving to correct the problem.  So this means that it is the teachers responsibility to keep communication flowing with the parents in regards to the attitudes and behaviors of the children they are watching.  Teachers are suppose to be partners with the parents, not the disciplinarians of the children. Janet, you are not being unreasonable in being upset about the bad habits your child is picking up.  However, your expectations are a little wrong. The teacher should always control the room, but she cannot fix the behaviors of the children without the help of the parents.  The teacher can only go off what the parent instills.  My advice to you would  be to ask the teacher if she has brought the problem up with the appropriate child’s parents.  And if she or he hasn’t, she very well should, as this is the teachers responsibility. Amber

> Thank you, Steve.  :-) > –Janet > Elliot, Hanna, Connor  (10/21/96)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I need to know if I am being unreasonable … > > My kids have been attending a preschool 2 days a week, for the past year > > (without me).  They were by far the oldest in their class — which was > only > > 7 kids, 3 of them mine, with 2 staff members — and everything went very > > well.  So I enrolled them again for this Fall.  It will be a more mixed > age > > class and has, I believe, 15 kids with 2 staff members.  My kids will > attend > > three days and they turn 4 in October (a young 4, but still …). > > To keep them in the routine, I enrolled them one day a week in summer > camp > > at the school.  This followed roughly the format for next year — more > kids, > > mixed ages. > > Now the problem:  upto now, my kids have been raised to be very polite > and > > kind to each other and me — when they apologise to each other, they > haven’t > > yet worked out that you can do it in a nasty way.  Things like that. > Yet > > from the very first day of summer school, Elliot has been behaving badly > > when he comes home.  For example: > > a)  If someone takes his toy and then gives it back, he pushes them > anyway > > (before they might have tussled but once the toy was given back he would > > have said thanks and gone off). > > b)  He sometimes speaks with an unacceptable tone and words.  Don’t get > me > > wrong — we are not talking swearing.  But if he is messing with my > stuff > > and I ask him to put something down, he slams it and stalks off saying > "It’s > > my <book, bowl, you-name-it ….>,  not yours.  It’s not yours.  It’s > mine. > > Mine.  Mine." over and over in a nasty tone. > > It takes a couple of days, but by the weekend he is usually back to > himself. > > Then the cycle repeats the following week.  So I am worried that next > school > > year, this will be a bigger and harder-to-cure problem.  So I am > considering > > asking the school to look into it — either is he a) being picked on and > > taking out his frustration when he gets home or b) observing other kids’ > > behavior and copying it?  And in either case, why isn’t the school staff > > stomping (nicely) on whoever is doing this? > > Isn’t that part of their job or am I expecting too much? > > –Janet > This IS what happens when good kids are finally exposed to bad people, > they feel frustrated that others aren’t as nice as they are, and they > stomp around about it quite disappointed for a time. I do a bit of that > around here to this day!! > You should talk to him about that fact of life and tell him he’s > different because he was raised to be nice, and that he will always FEEL > nice inside, and he will always LIKE being nice, even if other people he > meets are not nice and not happy because of it. > And tell him he may wish he wasn’t nice so he could pay those people > back for being nasty, but that he’ll always remember how to be nice and > he will remember feeling nice inside, so even if he does get mad he > won’t stay mad deep inside. And tell him that that feeling is what’s > really important, and what is special about him! > Steve

Response:

>OMG, I find myself agreeing with Toto AND Steve!! Now there’s a first. >Steve brought up great points about teaching your son to handle the external >frustrations of "not nice" folks and I think Toto has suggestions for >speaking with the school that are very valid as well.  As little two pronged >approach if you will.  We all encounter nasty folks, so finding ways to deal >with them are always good, but in such little people, the grown-ups in his >life bear some responsiblity to offer him a bit safer world while he learns >to make his way. ~L

Well, Steve’s parenting advice often has much to reccommend it if you can get through the attitude, imho. And of course, we should use all the prongs we can when we are speaking of these things..  <g> Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. source unknown

Response:

Thank you, Steve.  :-) –Janet Elliot, Hanna, Connor  (10/21/96) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I need to know if I am being unreasonable … > My kids have been attending a preschool 2 days a week, for the past year > (without me).  They were by far the oldest in their class — which was only > 7 kids, 3 of them mine, with 2 staff members — and everything went very > well.  So I enrolled them again for this Fall.  It will be a more mixed age > class and has, I believe, 15 kids with 2 staff members.  My kids will attend > three days and they turn 4 in October (a young 4, but still …). > To keep them in the routine, I enrolled them one day a week in summer camp > at the school.  This followed roughly the format for next year — more kids, > mixed ages. > Now the problem:  upto now, my kids have been raised to be very polite and > kind to each other and me — when they apologise to each other, they haven’t > yet worked out that you can do it in a nasty way.  Things like that. Yet > from the very first day of summer school, Elliot has been behaving badly > when he comes home.  For example: > a)  If someone takes his toy and then gives it back, he pushes them anyway > (before they might have tussled but once the toy was given back he would > have said thanks and gone off). > b)  He sometimes speaks with an unacceptable tone and words.  Don’t get me > wrong — we are not talking swearing.  But if he is messing with my stuff > and I ask him to put something down, he slams it and stalks off saying "It’s > my <book, bowl, you-name-it ….>,  not yours.  It’s not yours.  It’s mine. > Mine.  Mine." over and over in a nasty tone. > It takes a couple of days, but by the weekend he is usually back to himself. > Then the cycle repeats the following week.  So I am worried that next school > year, this will be a bigger and harder-to-cure problem.  So I am considering > asking the school to look into it — either is he a) being picked on and > taking out his frustration when he gets home or b) observing other kids’ > behavior and copying it?  And in either case, why isn’t the school staff > stomping (nicely) on whoever is doing this? > Isn’t that part of their job or am I expecting too much? > –Janet > This IS what happens when good kids are finally exposed to bad people, > they feel frustrated that others aren’t as nice as they are, and they > stomp around about it quite disappointed for a time. I do a bit of that > around here to this day!! > You should talk to him about that fact of life and tell him he’s > different because he was raised to be nice, and that he will always FEEL > nice inside, and he will always LIKE being nice, even if other people he > meets are not nice and not happy because of it. > And tell him he may wish he wasn’t nice so he could pay those people > back for being nasty, but that he’ll always remember how to be nice and > he will remember feeling nice inside, so even if he does get mad he > won’t stay mad deep inside. And tell him that that feeling is what’s > really important, and what is special about him! > Steve

Response:

OMG, I find myself agreeing with Toto AND Steve!! Now there’s a first. Steve brought up great points about teaching your son to handle the external frustrations of "not nice" folks and I think Toto has suggestions for speaking with the school that are very valid as well.  As little two pronged approach if you will.  We all encounter nasty folks, so finding ways to deal with them are always good, but in such little people, the grown-ups in his life bear some responsiblity to offer him a bit safer world while he learns to make his way. ~L

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >I need to know if I am being unreasonable … > >My kids have been attending a preschool 2 days a week, for the past year > >(without me).  They were by far the oldest in their class — which was >only > >7 kids, 3 of them mine, with 2 staff members — and everything went very > >well.  So I enrolled them again for this Fall.  It will be a more mixed >age > >class and has, I believe, 15 kids with 2 staff members.  My kids will >attend > >three days and they turn 4 in October (a young 4, but still …). > >To keep them in the routine, I enrolled them one day a week in summer >camp > >at the school.  This followed roughly the format for next year — more >kids, > >mixed ages. > >Now the problem:  upto now, my kids have been raised to be very polite >and > >kind to each other and me — when they apologise to each other, they >haven’t > >yet worked out that you can do it in a nasty way.  Things like that.  Yet > >from the very first day of summer school, Elliot has been behaving badly > >when he comes home.  For example: > >a)  If someone takes his toy and then gives it back, he pushes them >anyway > >(before they might have tussled but once the toy was given back he would > >have said thanks and gone off). > It is poosible that this is simply a notmal testing phase or that > there is something going on at school..  How do you handle it when > this happens at home? >This kind of thing sprung into being the very day summer school started … >but yes, a coincidence is possible.  At home, I get his attention — like >kneel right in front of him holding his shoulders or hands and look him in >the eye — and stare at him sternly and say "we don’t push, it’s not nice". >OK, sometimes (not very helpfully I imagine) I say "I don’t care if the kids >at school push.  It’s not nice and in this house *we* don’t push".  Then I >suggest he apologise, which is not something he does easily.  And then I >drop it.

This seems like the right attitude to have.  I suspect that is why he gets back into the swing of things after a few days at home..   Getting his attention is good.    One possible change to this. Instead of saying *we don’t push,* try to give him some real alternative to try.  Say *you can use words to ask,* perhaps. Also acknowledge his anger and frustration first.  "You really wanted that toy, but xxxxx wouldn’t give it to you..  I bet that made you feel mad."  (I know this is not a natural way of speaking, it takes lots of practice, but it does work).   You might also enlist his cooperation at a time when things are going well.   Get some problem solving going.. What can we do when someone takes a toy away?  And write down everything no matter how inane or bad a suggestion you think it is.. Then go through the list, eliminating things like – hit him by indicating that you can’t let anyone hurt someone else, and see if some suggestion he made can’t be used.  You can remind him of it in a single word once the plan of action is accepted by both of you..  For example – *words*  might be all that is needed if he decides for himself that he knows what words to use. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >b)  He sometimes speaks with an unacceptable tone and words.  Don’t get >me > >wrong — we are not talking swearing.  But if he is messing with my stuff > >and I ask him to put something down, he slams it and stalks off saying >"It’s > >my <book, bowl, you-name-it ….>,  not yours.  It’s not yours.  It’s >mine. > >Mine.  Mine." over and over in a nasty tone. > This sounds like imitation of older children and probably from the > school..   But if so, while you can look at how the school handles > these incidents, it is once again more important how you handle it > when it happens at home.. So what do you do when this happens now? >Basically the same as for the pushing.  But I usually say "we talk nicely" >or "we use nice voices", not "we don’t push".  ;-)  I see what you mean >about the home environment … but if he’s in school 3 days a week next year >????

The number of days is not really what is important here..  And unless you intend to shelter him from others who are not taught the same values, what is needed is a way to guide him to use his own values in preference to those the other children use..  Not easy and something that takes a long time to develop and that will be slipped up on from time to time no matter what you do..  The important thing is that learning this early is much less likely to involve major mistakes – like following his peers in high school.  It is hard to stand up to the crowd as a teen, but if a child learns early to trust his own feelings, it is easier for him later on, imho. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >It takes a couple of days, but by the weekend he is usually back to >himself. > >Then the cycle repeats the following week.  So I am worried that next >school > >year, this will be a bigger and harder-to-cure problem.  So I am >considering > >asking the school to look into it — either is he a) being picked on and > >taking out his frustration when he gets home or b) observing other kids’ > >behavior and copying it?  And in either case, why isn’t the school staff > >stomping (nicely) on whoever is doing this? > Hopefully, the school is not going to *stomp* even nicely on the > people who are doing this, since that is not what is needed. >Sorry — just speaking loosely, Dorothy.  I consider what I do with Elliot >now to be "stomping nicely", if that helps clarify any. Understood… > I would check into what kind of supervision the kids have and what > interventions are made when kids have a conflict. >I’ll ask since you don’t seem to think I’m being totally unreasonable.

No, I think it is a good thing for parents to ask and find out about this kind of thing.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The best way for > schools to handle this is to acknowledge both children’s feelings > and to give them the words to deal with conflict more productively > if they are too young to have the words already.   Kids can learn to > work out conflicts peacefully, but adults have to help them a bit > when they are young.. > If the teachers are receptive to new ways of doing things and are > not already award of the techniques, you might buy them a copy > of How to Talk So Kids Will Learn by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. > It has practical interventions for the classroom though for > elementary school age children primarily.  The examples are still > good ones that can be used with younger kids also.’ >I know the book.  Will take a look and talk to the school.

I just finished reading it and the parenting book is good, but this one adapts the techniques to classrooms and I like it a lot. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Isn’t that part of their job or am I expecting too much? > It is most certainly part of their job.. But summer camps are > generally a bit looser than the classrooms during the year and > often they are staffed by college students or older high school > kids under the supervision of a single teacher instead of by > a teacher and an aide as might be the case during the school > year.  I can’t know that this is the case for your program, but it > could be that this is part of the problem and that the school year > class will have less problems if this is true. >On further reflection, I think the teacher:child ratio *is* higher in the >summer camp because the teachers seem only to do a half day and only one of >the two aides seems to be there at any one time, too.  So I guess inevitably >they supervise less closely, but basically it’s the same staff, who are all >supposed to be highly qualified …  So maybe things *will* be better in the >Fall when the class size drops … what’s a good adult:child ratio for this >age (4)?

Well, our ratio in my NAEYC accredited center is basically 3 teachers to 20 children and works well for us.  We have two lead teachers and one aid in our classroom.. The state requires only 2 teachers in a classroom of 20 4 year olds, however.  That can work depending on the way the classroom is set up and what mix of kids you get, but it can also be very hard if you have children with real problems.  With three of us, if one child is having difficulty we always have one teacher who can deal with that one-on-one if it is needed. >–Janet >Elliot, Hanna, Connor  (10/21/96)

Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. source unknown

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I need to know if I am being unreasonable … > My kids have been attending a preschool 2 days a week, for the past year > (without me).  They were by far the oldest in their class — which was only > 7 kids, 3 of them mine, with 2 staff members — and everything went very > well.  So I enrolled them again for this Fall.  It will be a more mixed age > class and has, I believe, 15 kids with 2 staff members.  My kids will attend > three days and they turn 4 in October (a young 4, but still …). > To keep them in the routine, I enrolled them one day a week in summer camp > at the school.  This followed roughly the format for next year — more kids, > mixed ages. > Now the problem:  upto now, my kids have been raised to be very polite and > kind to each other and me — when they apologise to each other, they haven’t > yet worked out that you can do it in a nasty way.  Things like that.  Yet > from the very first day of summer school, Elliot has been behaving badly > when he comes home.  For example: > a)  If someone takes his toy and then gives it back, he pushes them anyway > (before they might have tussled but once the toy was given back he would > have said thanks and gone off). > b)  He sometimes speaks with an unacceptable tone and words.  Don’t get me > wrong — we are not talking swearing.  But if he is messing with my stuff > and I ask him to put something down, he slams it and stalks off saying "It’s > my <book, bowl, you-name-it ….>,  not yours.  It’s not yours.  It’s mine. > Mine.  Mine." over and over in a nasty tone. > It takes a couple of days, but by the weekend he is usually back to himself. > Then the cycle repeats the following week.  So I am worried that next school > year, this will be a bigger and harder-to-cure problem.  So I am considering > asking the school to look into it — either is he a) being picked on and > taking out his frustration when he gets home or b) observing other kids’ > behavior and copying it?  And in either case, why isn’t the school staff > stomping (nicely) on whoever is doing this? > Isn’t that part of their job or am I expecting too much? > –Janet

This IS what happens when good kids are finally exposed to bad people, they feel frustrated that others aren’t as nice as they are, and they stomp around about it quite disappointed for a time. I do a bit of that around here to this day!! You should talk to him about that fact of life and tell him he’s different because he was raised to be nice, and that he will always FEEL nice inside, and he will always LIKE being nice, even if other people he meets are not nice and not happy because of it. And tell him he may wish he wasn’t nice so he could pay those people back for being nasty, but that he’ll always remember how to be nice and he will remember feeling nice inside, so even if he does get mad he won’t stay mad deep inside. And tell him that that feeling is what’s really important, and what is special about him! Steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I need to know if I am being unreasonable … >My kids have been attending a preschool 2 days a week, for the past year >(without me).  They were by far the oldest in their class — which was only >7 kids, 3 of them mine, with 2 staff members — and everything went very >well.  So I enrolled them again for this Fall.  It will be a more mixed age >class and has, I believe, 15 kids with 2 staff members.  My kids will attend >three days and they turn 4 in October (a young 4, but still …). >To keep them in the routine, I enrolled them one day a week in summer camp >at the school.  This followed roughly the format for next year — more kids, >mixed ages. >Now the problem:  upto now, my kids have been raised to be very polite and >kind to each other and me — when they apologise to each other, they haven’t >yet worked out that you can do it in a nasty way.  Things like that.  Yet >from the very first day of summer school, Elliot has been behaving badly >when he comes home.  For example: >a)  If someone takes his toy and then gives it back, he pushes them anyway >(before they might have tussled but once the toy was given back he would >have said thanks and gone off).

It is poosible that this is simply a notmal testing phase or that there is something going on at school..  How do you handle it when this happens at home? >b)  He sometimes speaks with an unacceptable tone and words.  Don’t get me >wrong — we are not talking swearing.  But if he is messing with my stuff >and I ask him to put something down, he slams it and stalks off saying "It’s >my <book, bowl, you-name-it ….>,  not yours.  It’s not yours.  It’s mine. >Mine.  Mine." over and over in a nasty tone.

This sounds like imitation of older children and probably from the school..   But if so, while you can look at how the school handles these incidents, it is once again more important how you handle it when it happens at home.. So what do you do when this happens now? >It takes a couple of days, but by the weekend he is usually back to himself. >Then the cycle repeats the following week.  So I am worried that next school >year, this will be a bigger and harder-to-cure problem.  So I am considering >asking the school to look into it — either is he a) being picked on and >taking out his frustration when he gets home or b) observing other kids’ >behavior and copying it?  And in either case, why isn’t the school staff >stomping (nicely) on whoever is doing this?

Hopefully, the school is not going to *stomp* even nicely on the people who are doing this, since that is not what is needed.   I would check into what kind of supervision the kids have and what interventions are made when kids have a conflict.  The best way for schools to handle this is to acknowledge both children’s feelings and to give them the words to deal with conflict more productively if they are too young to have the words already.   Kids can learn to work out conflicts peacefully, but adults have to help them a bit when they are young.. If the teachers are receptive to new ways of doing things and are not already award of the techniques, you might buy them a copy of How to Talk So Kids Will Learn by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. It has practical interventions for the classroom though for elementary school age children primarily.  The examples are still good ones that can be used with younger kids also.’ >Isn’t that part of their job or am I expecting too much?

It is most certainly part of their job.. But summer camps are generally a bit looser than the classrooms during the year and often they are staffed by college students or older high school kids under the supervision of a single teacher instead of by a teacher and an aide as might be the case during the school year.  I can’t know that this is the case for your program, but it could be that this is part of the problem and that the school year class will have less problems if this is true. >–Janet >Elliot, Hanna, Connor  (10/21/96)

Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. source unknown

Response:

I need to know if I am being unreasonable … My kids have been attending a preschool 2 days a week, for the past year (without me).  They were by far the oldest in their class — which was only 7 kids, 3 of them mine, with 2 staff members — and everything went very well.  So I enrolled them again for this Fall.  It will be a more mixed age class and has, I believe, 15 kids with 2 staff members.  My kids will attend three days and they turn 4 in October (a young 4, but still …). To keep them in the routine, I enrolled them one day a week in summer camp at the school.  This followed roughly the format for next year — more kids, mixed ages. Now the problem:  upto now, my kids have been raised to be very polite and kind to each other and me — when they apologise to each other, they haven’t yet worked out that you can do it in a nasty way.  Things like that.  Yet from the very first day of summer school, Elliot has been behaving badly when he comes home.  For example: a)  If someone takes his toy and then gives it back, he pushes them anyway (before they might have tussled but once the toy was given back he would have said thanks and gone off). b)  He sometimes speaks with an unacceptable tone and words.  Don’t get me wrong — we are not talking swearing.  But if he is messing with my stuff and I ask him to put something down, he slams it and stalks off saying "It’s my <book, bowl, you-name-it ….>,  not yours.  It’s not yours.  It’s mine. Mine.  Mine." over and over in a nasty tone. It takes a couple of days, but by the weekend he is usually back to himself. Then the cycle repeats the following week.  So I am worried that next school year, this will be a bigger and harder-to-cure problem.  So I am considering asking the school to look into it — either is he a) being picked on and taking out his frustration when he gets home or b) observing other kids’ behavior and copying it?  And in either case, why isn’t the school staff stomping (nicely) on whoever is doing this? Isn’t that part of their job or am I expecting too much? –Janet Elliot, Hanna, Connor  (10/21/96)

Response:

>Hi..my 16 month old is the same way.  We thought she would love the church >easter egg hunt but she cried through the whole thing.  she hates the church >nursery and she hates being around people.

This is a repressed hatred of you she is acting out. >I just dont take her places >when I know she will cry anyway.  Hopefully she will grow out >of it.

You can accelerate the process by whispering in her ear. "Best shut up, my darling.  Or I’ll give you a real good reason to cry."  If she continues, swat her in the butt with a spatula. End of crying. Ben – Gets Results; Screw "New Parenting" * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

> mr. malone-in holland, we train children <snip crap>

Excuse me mr Holland….. we don’t.  So stop giving your country a bad name will you? Ga lekker met je poppen spelen! (go play with your dolls)

Response:

>Excuse me mr Holland….. we don’t.  So stop giving your country a bad name >will you?

look bitch, just because you are the only person in holland who is sexually fucked up doesn’t mean you can criticise me. i know more about everything than you do concerning my country. >Ga lekker met je poppen spelen! (go play with your dolls)

please put your finger back in some small titted dyke. cheers, jeroen * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Hi..my 16 month old is the same way.  We thought she would love the church easter egg hunt but she cried through the whole thing.  she hates the church nursery and she hates being around people.  we dont go out to eat unless we have a sitter and we dont take her many places..she screams in the car anyway because she hates to ride.  I do take her outside and we play and go to the store, etc…so I am not depriving her.  I just dont take her places when I know she will cry anyway.  Hopefully she will grow out of it. Toni Edwards – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > I’ve just found your group and am searching out some advice. I have > two daughters a 3 month old and a 2 1/2 yr. old. Needless to say the 3 > month old is not the problem. > Justine has always been very physically inclined (climbing, jumping, > etc.) extremely friendly and loving, very extroverted, a real charmer > you know? Whereas I love the fact that she is so full of life it is so > trying sometimes that I am just beside myself. I should have known it > would be like this from early on. We’d go to La Lache meetings and the > other babies would be staying close to their mom’s and Justine would > crawling off to explore the other rooms. She didn’t talk much til she > was about 2 and now she never stops but I can’t get her to relate how > she feels about things to me. > We had a gymnastics show today. She loves class and the teachers and > they really love her. We’ve worked hard at following the routine of > class and learning to wait turns etc. So, I thought the show would be > great for her.      She took one look around at the crowd and refused > to do anything just cried and cried. She calmed down when it was time > for the last thing (bars, which is her favorite). It didn’t help that > yesterday she fighting a bug  and I know she’s only 2 1/2…..but I > felt so disappointed, kind of let down. > I love the beautiful, strong qualities in my child and I would never > want to dampen them but sometimes I just wish she would act like the > other kids around her. Does anyone else get this confused? Right now I > just want to retreat from playgroup and outings and stay home until I > can figure things out. Any reccomendations for good parenting books or > any ideas would be greatly apppreciated.      It was good to vent. > thanks > Julia > Some kids just aren’t verbal for a while, they learn all the physical > and sensual things first. Her words "haven’t come in yet". Just love her > and ask her things and take what you get for a while, she’ll do fine. > Don’t push her into things that young, but give her the opportunity to > respond without any particular judgment. > Just make sure she’s not deaf and otherwise have a nice time together. > Steve

Response:

>have her do chin-ups on your penis. >cheers, >jeroen

Jeroen, this kind of filth doesn’t assist in the proliferation of parental solutions.  Anyway, Baby’s hands are too small and the shoulder joint too fragile. Benburn * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

>Jeroen, this kind of filth doesn’t assist in the proliferation >of parental solutions.  Anyway, Baby’s hands are too small and >the shoulder joint too fragile. >Benburn

mr. malone-in holland, we train children from a very young age to utilize the penis in all sorts of physical training. it is important for the child to see from whence it came. the penis is the source of all life and by excercising on it, the children will understand what Freud meant in his writings on Totems and Taboo’s. may the peace of wilburn which passes all understanding keep your part and your mind hard. jeroen. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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>Any reccomendations for good parenting books or >any ideas would be greatly apppreciated.      It was good to vent. >thanks >Julia

Julia, listen to me.  The reality is if you don’t get a grip on your little social outcast, down the line, someone else will. If she continues this anti-social behaviour, someday she is going to get her clock cleaned with a good right hook. I don’t mean to be forward but if, by age 3, you don’t shake some sense into this kid you are headed for a real life downhill slide when school starts.  Assuming she will be able to attend school without throwing tantrums. Good luck.  If you listen to the "love and timeout" group, you will find yourself with an antisocial brat and a homeschooling imbecile.  Shove her back into the fray and when she starts all that bs, give her a stern, straightforward talking to.  Andif that don’t work, smack her upside the head.  Better from you than the first grade bully. Ben * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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have her do chin-ups on your penis. cheers, jeroen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Justine has always been very physically inclined (climbing, jumping, >etc.) extremely friendly and loving, very extroverted, a real charmer >you know? Whereas I love the fact that she is so full of life it is so >trying sometimes that I am just beside myself. I should have known it >would be like this from early on. We’d go to La Lache meetings and the >other babies would be staying close to their mom’s and Justine would >crawling off to explore the other rooms. She didn’t talk much til she >was about 2 and now she never stops but I can’t get her to relate how >she feels about things to me. >We had a gymnastics show today. She loves class and the teachers and >they really love her. We’ve worked hard at following the routine of >class and learning to wait turns etc. So, I thought the show would be >great for her.      She took one look around at the crowd and refused >to do anything just cried and cried. She calmed down when it was time >for the last thing (bars, which is her favorite). It didn’t help that >yesterday she fighting a bug  and I know she’s only 2 1/2…..but I >felt so disappointed, kind of let down. >I love the beautiful, strong qualities in my child and I would never >want to dampen them but sometimes I just wish she would act like the >other kids around her. Does anyone else get this confused? Right now I >just want to retreat from playgroup and outings and stay home until I >can figure things out. Any reccomendations for good parenting books or >any ideas would be greatly apppreciated.      It was good to vent. >thanks >Julia

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Julia, You have gotten some wonderful advice thus far.  I can tell you that I have two strong willed, determined children.  It’s not always easy to parent them.  But I am very secure in the knowledge that they will never be anyone’s doormat.  They are very much their own people.  Sounds like your daughter is the same way.  That is something to celebrate, not bemoan!! Just think what a strong woman she will be in 20 years!  The world will be hers for the taking. As for the gymnastic show.  She may have been nervous about all those faces watching her.  That’s OK.  We ran into something like that with my DD at 2 1/2.  My best friend from college was getting married.  She asked me to be her matron of honor and DD to be her flower girl.  Anna was thrilled about it.  She got a fancy, fancy dress and all those flowers to carry!!  OOH! She was so thrilled!!!  Until it was time to walk down the aisle.  lol  Then she saw all those people, got scared and would only walk down if she could hold my hand and not look at any of them.  So that is what we did. Not the way we had hoped it would work out, but it all turned out fine.  We got to the head of the aisle, and she ran across the front pew to Daddy.  2 1/2 is still very young.  It’s easy to forget that when they are so outgoing normally.  But when faced with performance anxiety, even the most determined 2 year old will be scared. Don’t skip the playgroups.   She needs that time of high activity and socializing with the other kids. And be honest, if you stayed home she would just be so rowdy, she would get herself into trouble.  I know that’s how it works around here.  :-} My children are 8 and 4.  There are many days that the two of them drive me up a wall.  There are many other days that I cherish every moment with them. And it’s fine to get yourself through the rough days by thinking about the good days.  Parenting can be very confusing.  It’s a learning process for you and your children.  Just remember that she doesn’t know any more about it than you do.  So she will never know if you are not following the latest childrearing book to the letter.   Love her for who she is and try to do the best for her and with her.  That is all any of us can do. And please, come here and vent to us any time you would like.  Most of the folks here are lovely, caring people and you will find support and wisdom here most of the time. Sharon

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> Hi Everyone, > I’m Symynthe.. I’m 17, married, and our first child is due April 25th.. I was > just wondering if anyone had any advice on taking care of newborns.. I have > been told lots of things, but just wanted some more people’s opinions and > advice.. My husband and I are trying to get our "parenting philosophy" less > "textbookish", if that makes sense.. And we were just wondering if anyone had > any tips or anything that helped them out, let me know, Okay? > Thanks, > Symynthe

Congratulations! Best of luck to you first off…I have a son who will be three in June. Here’s what i’ve learned(so far): 1. Read the textbook then pitch it…sort of…remember that no two babies are the same…text books are a guideline, not the gospel. Remember this and you’ll save yourself loads of insanity. 2. Take it easy on yourself. ie: if it’s a choice between a nap for you and housework…if you are tired — take the nap…trust me…you and your baby will benefit immensely from you being rested, especially if you aren’t getting to sleep through the night at first. 3. Don’t be afraid to call the maternity ward nurse for advice after the baby arrives and you all go home…doctors, i’ve found, have all the medical expertise, but none of the maternal finesse…if i listened to my doctors advice on nursing…my baby would have starved to death…Duty nurse I spoke with gave me good advise that worked…also gave a patient ear to my rantings… Nurses have alot more practical information on kid raising, especially the very early days. 4. Remember, all those other "all-knowing" parents out there, were first-timers themselves at one point. Don’t let them rattle you…Do your best and love your baby and things will go fine… hope this helps some… donna > http://members.tripod.com/~EmalethEmrsn/index.html  MY PERSONAL SITE > http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/PaganFriends  PAGAN MAILING LIST > http://themail.com/ref.htm?ref=415974   FREE EMAIL THAT PAYS!!

– …so it goes — Billy Pilgrim Before you buy.

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> Hi Everyone, > I’m Symynthe.. I’m 17, married, and our first child is due April 25th.. I was > just wondering if anyone had any advice on taking care of newborns.. I have > been told lots of things, but just wanted some more people’s opinions and > advice.. My husband and I are trying to get our "parenting philosophy" less > "textbookish", if that makes sense.. And we were just wondering if anyone had > any tips or anything that helped them out, let me know, Okay?

1) How do you pronounce your name? 2) Don’t worry about being text-bookish.  Raising a child is anything but textbookish. Cathy Weeks Before you buy.

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Parents at 19 & 23 now a single parent at 21, can offer no real advise for relationships especially when there will be three of you’s, you’ll just need to get on with it, best of luck. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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WHAT?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Parents at 19 & 23 now a single parent at 21, can offer no > real advise for relationships especially when there will be > three of you’s, you’ll just need to get on with it, best of luck. > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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well said, Steve. I’m in complete agreement. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Everyone, > I’m Symynthe.. I’m 17, married, and our first child is due April 25th.. I was > just wondering if anyone had any advice on taking care of newborns.. I have > been told lots of things, but just wanted some more people’s opinions and > advice.. My husband and I are trying to get our "parenting philosophy" less > "textbookish", if that makes sense.. And we were just wondering if anyone had > any tips or anything that helped them out, let me know, Okay? > Thanks, > Symynthe > Toss the parenting books. Believe only medical information. Ignore > relatives. Don’t believe in anything that tells you to MAKE your kid > into anybody, FORCE them to do anything, or DO any particular thing > other than to love them. Trust your child’s nature and your own when it > tells you it’s not nice to pick on people smaller than you. Treat them > like your guest because that’s what they are. They are not "yours". They > are THEIRS. > Steve

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The best advice my doctor gave me was 1) it is not possible to spoil a child under 1 yr of age. Pick them up whenever they cry (if you can) hug, kiss and cuddle them as much as you want. And 2) keep your home at a comfortable temp for you and your hubby (meaning it is okay to use a/c, which my MIL was convienced would kill my baby!) If their little hands and feet feel cold put sock and mittens on them, they are cold because of their small size. I have read a ton of child care books. Many, IMO, are a bunch of mumbo jumbo that don’t make sense in the real world. I did find a few good ideas in each and rejected what sounded and felt wrong to me. Good luck, Liz

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If I were you, I’d also try to hook up with other Mothers – it’s a great comfort to know that yours is not the only child doing or not doing a particular thing. Also, other Moms can usually help you out by telling you what worked for them in a particular situation (not unlike this newsgroup). One organization for Mothers is the Mothers’ Centers. There are about 50 across the United States. All Mothers (adoptive, biological, working, stay at home etc.) are welcomed at Mothers’ Centers, although at many (not all) of the centers, the majority of the Mothers stay at home either full or part time. If you’d like to learn more about them, and possibly find one in your area, go to their website: www.motherscenter.org Heidi

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You’ve received lots of good advice so far. One thing I would add is that I got lots of good information from the "What to Expect.." books, The First Year and Toddler Years would the ones. They are just FILLED with lots of information, kind of like having a doula on call.  The format is lots of letters from moms with common sense replies. No nagging, no preaching, just lots of info. I used it to look up lots of stuff and ws surprised by what was in there. Check them out if you have time. Good Luck!!!! L

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Everyone, > I’m Symynthe.. I’m 17, married, and our first child is due April 25th.. I was > just wondering if anyone had any advice on taking care of newborns.. I have > been told lots of things, but just wanted some more people’s opinions and > advice.. My husband and I are trying to get our "parenting philosophy" less > "textbookish", if that makes sense.. And we were just wondering if anyone had > any tips or anything that helped them out, let me know, Okay? > Thanks, > Symynthe > http://members.tripod.com/~EmalethEmrsn/index.html  MY PERSONAL SITE > http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/PaganFriends  PAGAN MAILING LIST > http://themail.com/ref.htm?ref=415974   FREE EMAIL THAT PAYS!!

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Hi       I have just had my 5th baby and my advice is  try using your own instinct with your baby and you’ll find you’ll know exactly what to do.It may take a few days but you will learn to distinguish his/her different cries and know what each one means i.e. hungry cry frightened cry . Once you do that its a piece of cake.                                                                           Toni – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi Everyone, > I’m Symynthe.. I’m 17, married, and our first child is due April 25th.. I was > just wondering if anyone had any advice on taking care of newborns.. I have > been told lots of things, but just wanted some more people’s opinions and > advice.. My husband and I are trying to get our "parenting philosophy" less > "textbookish", if that makes sense.. And we were just wondering if anyone had > any tips or anything that helped them out, let me know, Okay? > Thanks, > Symynthe > http://members.tripod.com/~EmalethEmrsn/index.html  MY PERSONAL SITE > http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/PaganFriends  PAGAN MAILING LIST > http://themail.com/ref.htm?ref=415974   FREE EMAIL THAT PAYS!!

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> Hi Everyone, > I’m Symynthe.. I’m 17, married, and our first child is due April 25th.. I was > just wondering if anyone had any advice on taking care of newborns.. I have > been told lots of things, but just wanted some more people’s opinions and > advice.. My husband and I are trying to get our "parenting philosophy" less > "textbookish", if that makes sense.. And we were just wondering if anyone had > any tips or anything that helped them out, let me know, Okay? > Thanks, > Symynthe

Toss the parenting books. Believe only medical information. Ignore relatives. Don’t believe in anything that tells you to MAKE your kid into anybody, FORCE them to do anything, or DO any particular thing other than to love them. Trust your child’s nature and your own when it tells you it’s not nice to pick on people smaller than you. Treat them like your guest because that’s what they are. They are not "yours". They are THEIRS. Steve

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Everyone, > I’m Symynthe.. I’m 17, married, and our first child is due April 25th.. I was > just wondering if anyone had any advice on taking care of newborns.. I have > been told lots of things, but just wanted some more people’s opinions and > advice.. My husband and I are trying to get our "parenting philosophy" less > "textbookish", if that makes sense.. And we were just wondering if anyone had > any tips or anything that helped them out, let me know, Okay? > Congrats on the coming addition! The very best piece of advice I have for you is > something an old nurse told me the night my first was born.  I was nursing the > baby and it was like 2am.  This nurse came in and she held my dd’s hand for a > very long time.  Then she said, "Just remember that this is the person who will > be holding your hand when you die and you will do just fine." It didn’t really > sink in at the moment…but that has touched the way I parent more than any other > one thing.  Good luck! > — > Maureen > Single Mom to Sarah 13, Michael 11, Matthew 7, Rebecca 5 and Adam 3 >                        — Every morning I get miles of smiles — >                         Full time student/Small Business owner >                              http://www.pacificbytes.com/SS/

Oh Maureen, did that ever hit home & bring a tear to my eye.  I’m so emotional though that I cry at everything sad or happy.  I was holding my Mom’s hand when she died.  And, she was always there for me.  There is always somebody to knock you down (not literally), but there was always Mom to bolster me up & tell me how great I was.  I always say I’ve been so fortunate as I had TWO people in my life that gave me total unconditional love no matter what.  They are my Mom & my husband.  I’ve tried to do the same for my kids. Symynthe, you have been given some excellent advice from some wonderful people.  There is nothing more wonderful then rocking that tiny one in the wee hours in the morning with that soft head buried in your neck.  That’s the best feeling in the whole world & they grow up so fast & want to be so independent.  Now I get to enjoy that all over again with my granddaughters.  The newest one is only 3 wks old.  My pediatrician 30 yrs ago advised me to go with my mother’s instinct & not listen to mother & Mil’s preaching.  I have to say I couldn’t have done it with such ease (it seems now,haha) without such a wonderful pediatrician.  I called her constantly & her ‘girl Friday knew what doc advised for which set of circumstances & if not, she got the answer from her and called me back or the doctor would call me.  A first class pediatrician are worth they’re weight in gold.  Also, don’t turn down any help from family, friends or neighbors.  And, have a good baby medical or reference book to run to & look up stuff about what to do at 3AM.  It will be a lifesaver & calm you down until the doctor’s office opens later in the morning. Hugs, Judy

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The best thing my pediatrician told me was "If you don’t know what to do in, pretend that you are on a desert island with your child, where there is no one to ask, and follow your instincts. 99% of the time, you will do the right thing." I’m not sure I totally agree with him, but I do believe you should follow your gut, not some book. You can find a book that approves or disapproves of almost any parenting practice. Pick advice that feels right to you and feel free to discard the rest.

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Hi Symynthe. A big part of taking care of newborns depends on the newborn you are taking care of.  I’m not saying that to be trite…a lot will depend on what your little darling is like.  Some newborns like to be swaddled (my DD) while others cannot stand it (my DS).  Some love their infant swings (my DS) and others don’t (my DD).  It is hard to generalize about a child that is not here yet.  I agree with Sue…for basic infant care the What to Expect book was my bible.  But even with that, both my kids were so different in preferences that it usually took trial and error before learning what was best for each of them.  My son hated his baby bath…you would have thought we were killing him.  Yet my daughter, at the same age LOVED it and giggled throughout.   Yet, once he got into the big bathtub he began to love baths while my daughter who will be 3 on Saturday is going through a phase where she hates the water on her face during rinse-off. I can give you one piece of advice that a friend gave me when I was pregnant with my 1st.   Don’t start any habit that you are unwilling to continue doing when the child is 2.  Whether this is rocking them to sleep, or giving them a pacifier ( and thus having to find it at 2 am).   I’m not saying NOT to do them…just be aware that once started, they do continue.  Feel free to email me with any questions you have…I’ll be happy to try to answer them, or, if I can’t I’ll be happy to just listen should you need. Marion—–Tampamom to Louis(7) and Erica (3 on Saturday) — Tomorrow is a mystery Yesterday is history Today is a gift…that’s why it is called "the present" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi Symynthe: >Congratulations on your new arrival. Is there anything in particular you >were wondering about, or just general baby care? There are some really good >books out there, lets see off the top of my head are What to expect the >first year, Dr. Spock (yes I still like him), Penelope Leach is a very good >children’s doctor and she has written several good books, Dr. Brazelton is >another children’s doctor that has written several good books. That is all >of the books I can think of. >As far as baby care, babies love to be held, swaddled, feed on demand (even >if that means feeding every hour), go to baby every time he cries, this >builds a bond between you and this builds trust from the baby and he will >cry less later on. Relax and trust your instincts. If you need more, please >feel free to email me. BTW, my name is Sue and I have three kids ages 7, 4 >and 3. >Sue B. > Hi Everyone, > I’m Symynthe.. I’m 17, married, and our first child is due April 25th.. I >was > just wondering if anyone had any advice on taking care of newborns.. I >have > been told lots of things, but just wanted some more people’s opinions and > advice.. My husband and I are trying to get our "parenting philosophy" >less > "textbookish", if that makes sense.. And we were just wondering if anyone >had > any tips or anything that helped them out, let me know, Okay? > Thanks, > Symynthe > http://members.tripod.com/~EmalethEmrsn/index.html  MY PERSONAL SITE > http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/PaganFriends  PAGAN MAILING LIST > http://themail.com/ref.htm?ref=415974   FREE EMAIL THAT PAYS!!

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Hi Symynthe!  I was a little older when I had my first child(19 years old) and nothing could have perpared me for it.  All those sleepless nights, baby cring all the time-first tummy upset.  Just remember it does get better.  You’ll forget about all the sleepless nights and all that screaming and cring the first time that sweet little child looks up at you, smiles and says Ma-ma when you needed to hear it the most! Good luck and have fun.  Don’t forget to buy an exersaucer( I have a evenflo one )  it saved my life.  The child can’t go any where in it and still has fun playing with all those toys on it(for ages around 4 months up), it work when you need a little mommy time.  Just remember to make sure that you can always see baby while in the exersaucer! Jennifer mom of Matthew(9-3-99) * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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You are going to be told lots of things – sometimes conflicting advice. My advice to you is to thank whoever is giving you the advice (especially Mothers and Mother-in-Laws) and then use or not use the advice as you see fit. If the advice seems useful and right to you, then do it – your instincts are probably your best guide. My other advice? If you’re going to breastfeed, learn to do it lying down so you can sometimes take a nap with the baby. Sleeping with your baby is just a great feeling – and yes, there will be people who will tell you it’s dangerous, since there’s a risk of suffocation.I think if you keep pillows and heavy blankets away from the baby, and don’t sleep with him/her if you are on drugs that could make you sleepy (cold medicine etc.) or alcohol, then an occasional nap together won’t do you or the baby any harm. Heidi

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>Congratulations and remember also that the ninth month of pregnancy was >designed>to make women look FORWARD to going into labor. >–Welmoed

LOL … this is funny, but perhaps not what a first time expectant mommy wants to hear! The advice I give people who ask me is this:  Nobody knows your baby like you will.  If YOU think something is not just right, don’t let the pediatrician blow you off as a highstrung, nervous mommy.   All you need to know at first is hold the baby as much as possible.  You cannot spoil an infant.   Start reading to the baby before it’s born, and continue to read to your child often.  They will calm at the sound of your voice. Don’t talk baby talk … babies learn to talk from listening to you.  I had a 18 month old with a 75 (appx)  word vocabulary.  Count and identify everything … stairs as you walk up or down, babies fingers and toes, feet, arms, eyes, animals you might see. Don’t wait until you think they can understand you to start talking to them. They understand more then we can fathom.   Are you considering breastfeeding?   If you know somebody with an infant, They would likely be happy to show you how to bathe a baby, or diaper one if you have not been exposed to that.   Good luck, you are obviously a very concerned mommy-to-be to come here to ask for advice.  You will do fine!  Those first few months, most of what they need comes instinctually.   Krystal "Life isn’t measured by how many breaths we take but by how many moments that take our breath away" Eat the "treat" in my address to e-mail me.

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> Hi Everyone, > I’m Symynthe.. I’m 17, married, and our first child is due April 25th.. I was > just wondering if anyone had any advice on taking care of newborns.. I have > been told lots of things, but just wanted some more people’s opinions and > advice.. My husband and I are trying to get our "parenting philosophy" less > "textbookish", if that makes sense.. And we were just wondering if anyone had > any tips or anything that helped them out, let me know, Okay?

Congrats on the coming addition! The very best piece of advice I have for you is something an old nurse told me the night my first was born.  I was nursing the baby and it was like 2am.  This nurse came in and she held my dd’s hand for a very long time.  Then she said, "Just remember that this is the person who will be holding your hand when you die and you will do just fine." It didn’t really sink in at the moment…but that has touched the way I parent more than any other one thing.  Good luck! — Maureen Single Mom to Sarah 13, Michael 11, Matthew 7, Rebecca 5 and Adam 3                        — Every morning I get miles of smiles —                         Full time student/Small Business owner                              http://www.pacificbytes.com/SS/

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Hi Everyone, I’m Symynthe.. I’m 17, married, and our first child is due April 25th.. I was just wondering if anyone had any advice on taking care of newborns.. I have been told lots of things, but just wanted some more people’s opinions and advice.. My husband and I are trying to get our "parenting philosophy" less "textbookish", if that makes sense.. And we were just wondering if anyone had any tips or anything that helped them out, let me know, Okay? Thanks, Symynthe http://members.tripod.com/~EmalethEmrsn/index.html  MY PERSONAL SITE http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/PaganFriends  PAGAN MAILING LIST http://themail.com/ref.htm?ref=415974   FREE EMAIL THAT PAYS!!

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Hi Symynthe: Congratulations on your new arrival. Is there anything in particular you were wondering about, or just general baby care? There are some really good books out there, lets see off the top of my head are What to expect the first year, Dr. Spock (yes I still like him), Penelope Leach is a very good children’s doctor and she has written several good books, Dr. Brazelton is another children’s doctor that has written several good books. That is all of the books I can think of. As far as baby care, babies love to be held, swaddled, feed on demand (even if that means feeding every hour), go to baby every time he cries, this builds a bond between you and this builds trust from the baby and he will cry less later on. Relax and trust your instincts. If you need more, please feel free to email me. BTW, my name is Sue and I have three kids ages 7, 4 and 3. Sue B.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Everyone, > I’m Symynthe.. I’m 17, married, and our first child is due April 25th.. I was > just wondering if anyone had any advice on taking care of newborns.. I have > been told lots of things, but just wanted some more people’s opinions and > advice.. My husband and I are trying to get our "parenting philosophy" less > "textbookish", if that makes sense.. And we were just wondering if anyone had > any tips or anything that helped them out, let me know, Okay? > Thanks, > Symynthe > http://members.tripod.com/~EmalethEmrsn/index.html  MY PERSONAL SITE > http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/PaganFriends  PAGAN MAILING LIST > http://themail.com/ref.htm?ref=415974   FREE EMAIL THAT PAYS!!

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One of the best pieces of advice I ever got when my first was born was this: "You’ve never been a mom before, but at the same time, this baby’s never HAD a mom before, so he won’t know what to expect either." In other words, my kid wasn’t going to judge me for doing things "wrong" and we would both figure each other out in due time. Congratulations and remember also that the ninth month of pregnancy was designed to make women look FORWARD to going into labor. –Welmoed > Hi Everyone, > I’m Symynthe.. I’m 17, married, and our first child is due April 25th.. I was > just wondering if anyone had any advice on taking care of newborns.. I have > been told lots of things, but just wanted some more people’s opinions and > advice.. My husband and I are trying to get our "parenting philosophy" less > "textbookish", if that makes sense.. And we were just wondering if anyone had > any tips or anything that helped them out, let me know, Okay? > Thanks, > Symynthe > http://members.tripod.com/~EmalethEmrsn/index.html  MY PERSONAL SITE > http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/PaganFriends  PAGAN MAILING LIST > http://themail.com/ref.htm?ref=415974   FREE EMAIL THAT PAYS!!

–            IT Development and Technology Assessment                Visit the Fire Breathing Dragon!!                   http://www.sissonfamily.com

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If he can walk, he’s ready for it. Get ready to childprood about 2 feet higher. One of my friend’s daughter walked at 9 months. My son began to walk (wobbly) at 10 months. Enjoy! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi!  My son, who just turned 8 mo. old, took his first wobbly steps this > weekend!!!  We were so shocked, 8 mo. seems so young!  I was just wondering > if, physically or mentally, he is ready to walk???  He looks so little when > he stands up .  Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks

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steve, you disgust me – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi!  My son, who just turned 8 mo. old, took his first wobbly steps this > weekend!!!  We were so shocked, 8 mo. seems so young!  I was just wondering > if, physically or mentally, he is ready to walk???  He looks so little when > he stands up .  Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks >Why? If we say he’s too young do you plan on hobbling him or tying him >down, or what?? You remind me of the idiot parents whose child starts to >read at home and they take books away from them!! >Steve

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> Hi!  My son, who just turned 8 mo. old, took his first wobbly steps this > weekend!!!  We were so shocked, 8 mo. seems so young!  I was just wondering > if, physically or mentally, he is ready to walk???  He looks so little when > he stands up .  Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks

If he’s doing it…he’s ready.  My ‘little’ babies (7#12oz) walked really early…my heavier babies (10#) couldn’t even get their round tummies off the floor, let alone walk by the time the smaller kids had started trailing along the furniture.  Interestingly enough…those that walked early are more sedate now (if you can use that term with kids) and the late walkers seemingly ‘never’ walk…run, skip, hop, bounce, tippy toe….but not walk.  Lol. — Maureen Single Mom to Sarah 13, Michael 11, Matthew 7, Rebecca 5 and Adam 3                        — Every morning I get miles of smiles —                         Full time student/Small Business owner                              http://www.pacificbytes.com/SS/

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Both of my twins were early walkers, my son at 8 months on the nose and his sister, being highly competitive walked two weeks later.  Neither seemed to be effected physically by the early walking, mom on the other hand was ready to pull her hair out.  Eight month olds do not have an understanding of NO and so everything was baby proofed by either being removed (a very bare living room) or taped or baby gated.  Thank goodness they are 5 now. Shirley – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi!  My son, who just turned 8 mo. old, took his first wobbly steps this > weekend!!!  We were so shocked, 8 mo. seems so young!  I was just wondering > if, physically or mentally, he is ready to walk???  He looks so little when > he stands up .  Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks

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> Hi!  My son, who just turned 8 mo. old, took his first wobbly steps this > weekend!!!  We were so shocked, 8 mo. seems so young!  I was just wondering > if, physically or mentally, he is ready to walk???  He looks so little when > he stands up .  Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks

Heck…if he’s moving, he’s ready, at least as far as he’s concerned.  Just do him a favor and don’t make him wear those stupid little hard leather shoes. Everything I’ve read says those things don’t let their feet develop nicely, and they also remove much of the tactile feedback he needs to learn to walk on various surfaces in the house.  Our doctor suggested no shoes at all, unless the kid’s outdoors. Once he’s dependably mobile, maybe another few weeks, I’d teach him to take out the garbage.  Why waste such early talent?  :-) Doug

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DS was walking at 9 months and loved every minute.  Myself, OTH, didn’t walk till almost 1.5 years….. They do it when they are ready!  Enjoy!! Sarah Mom to Kalen (8) and Victoria (4 months) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi!  My son, who just turned 8 mo. old, took his first wobbly steps this > weekend!!!  We were so shocked, 8 mo. seems so young!  I was just wondering > if, physically or mentally, he is ready to walk???  He looks so little when > he stands up .  Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks

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I walked at 9 months, my first child walked on her first birthday, second child mastered the skill at 11 months, and my third waited until his testicles were in line at 14.5 months (born with one undecended testicle, started walking the day after his corrective surgery) Every child is different, an 8 month old will require more diligent supervision than a 12 or 13 month old.  (not that a 12 or 13 month old doesn’t need supervision – I just meant that a smaller child is more fragile and wobbly) You can’t hold them back when they are ready to walk … even if YOU aren’t ready!  YOu will have to re-babyproof your house now that she’s upright, there will be a whole new mess of stuff that she can reach. Good luck and enjoy these precious moments. Krystal "Life isn’t measured by how many breaths we take but by how many moments that take our breath away" Eat the "treat" in my address to e-mail me.

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> Hi!  My son, who just turned 8 mo. old, took his first wobbly steps this > weekend!!!  We were so shocked, 8 mo. seems so young!  I was just wondering > if, physically or mentally, he is ready to walk???  He looks so little when > he stands up .  Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks

Why? If we say he’s too young do you plan on hobbling him or tying him down, or what?? You remind me of the idiot parents whose child starts to read at home and they take books away from them!! Steve

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> Why? If we say he’s too young do you plan on hobbling him or tying him > down, or what?? You remind me of the idiot parents whose child starts to > read at home and they take books away from them!! > Steve

Now this is CLASSIC Steve.  You crack me up. AJP

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He seems to think he is (ready to walk)! The parenting books I’ve read all say that they don’t do something physically, on their own, unless they are ready for it. Now whether we (the parents) are ready for it, or not, is another story!! Besides providing a safe environment for him to practice walking, the only other suggestion is to by yourself a pair of running shoes! P > Hi! My son, who just turned 8 mo. old, took his first wobbly steps this > weekend!!! We were so shocked, 8 mo. seems so young! I was just wondering > if, physically or mentally, he is ready to walk??? He looks so little when > he stands up . Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

– <end> PGunn Before you buy.

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Our son, Noah, climbed up to the coffee table at 6 months, walked along it at 7 months, wobbled across the floor (faling as he went) at 8 months, and was GONE at 9 months. Get ready, it’s about to become a bumpy ride!!!!  Have fun keeping up!!!! LOL AJPDLA

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi!  My son, who just turned 8 mo. old, took his first wobbly steps this > weekend!!!  We were so shocked, 8 mo. seems so young!  I was just wondering > if, physically or mentally, he is ready to walk???  He looks so little when > he stands up .  Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks

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I’ve always been told, "If they weren’t ready, they wouldn’t be doing it."  So, sit back, and relax while you can.  Once he gets good at walking, there’s no rest for you!!  :-) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi!  My son, who just turned 8 mo. old, took his first wobbly steps this > weekend!!!  We were so shocked, 8 mo. seems so young!  I was just wondering > if, physically or mentally, he is ready to walk???  He looks so little when > he stands up .  Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks

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>Hi!  My son, who just turned 8 mo. old, took his first wobbly steps this >weekend!!!  We were so shocked, 8 mo. seems so young!  I was just wondering >if, physically or mentally, he is ready to walk???  He looks so little when >he stands up .  Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks

In a word, yes.  It sure is scary when they become mobile this early but it isn’t really that unusual.  I don’t know if your son crawled yet–I have heard that most early walkers skip the crawling.  My son didn’t; he crawled at 4 months and walked at 7 months.  My daughter left us alone until 7 months when she crawled and then she walked at 9 months. The biggest problem we faced was a child who didn’t really understand NO but was capable of doing lots of things that required NO.  We ended up making use of gates to lock down certain areas.  It was much easier to baby proof in stages.  With my daughter, we never really did do the kitchen (we also had a 100+ lb part lab part great dane so the kitchen was gated for him, too.  Of course, he could actually step over the gate but he never did  My son wasn’t really that interested in getting into things–he just wanted to MOVE.  My daughter was (and still is more capable of making trouble. Georgia (whose kids are now 7.5 and 11.5 years old and can well remember that totally shocked feeling)

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Hi!  My son, who just turned 8 mo. old, took his first wobbly steps this weekend!!!  We were so shocked, 8 mo. seems so young!  I was just wondering if, physically or mentally, he is ready to walk???  He looks so little when he stands up .  Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated!  Thanks

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Judgements It seems that you make so many.  The largest truth you made was that these girls have not known or understood it differently.  They to received such treatment, if not worse from their parents.  This does not make them less responsible for the actions, yet to make judgements is also not useful.  all of us have much to learn and understand about parenthood and OURSELVES.  The world would be adifferent place if rather than make judgements, we felt compassion for these humans.  Obviously you have a greater level of awareness, and information at hand, is there some way, rather than judging these people that you can assist in educating, enlightening them, after all, all of society pays the consequences of such parenting. Until society as a whole recognizes that judgements are of no value, and decide to consciously make a difference, children will brought into our world experiencing the consequences of our society.  That is Your society and Mine.  Each of us has accepted this and judging it will definitely no make the difference.

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I’m sorry; you read my post in a little different tone than I intended. I was basically just verbalizing the justifications I have heard from some other mothers. They are not evil or bad people and they love their children. They’re just not driven to change anything because they think that what they have been told or what their mothers or grandmothers did is all right. Sometimes it is just right, but times change and we learn some new and different things. I thought the OP was just right in wanting to be cautious about how she approached her friend so she didn’t seem threatening. Heck, we could all use improvement, and we all believe some things that aren’t the best. I admire her for wanting to help. Lynne * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Well, I certainly understand. I thought you had planned it that way- and it sounded so tuff I was wondering why. J Before you buy.

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I want to thank everyone who offered advice on the newsgroup and via private email.  I wanted to let everyone know what I’ve decided to do. First of all, Dawn didn’t bowl with us this past Sunday.  She had to work, so they bowled earlier that day.  So, I won’t see them again for 2 more weeks.  I stopped at our Health Department today and talked to a nurse from the prenatal/neonatal clinic about my concerns.  (I didn’t give her Dawn’s name.)  I requested some pamphlets and/or literature regarding the issues I am concerned about.  The nurse was so helpful.  She even gave me her card and said that Dawn could contact her if she had any questions or wanted a nurse to stop by and help them out.  I decided to write them a letter outlining my concerns and enclosing the pamphlets.  This will give them about 1-1/2 weeks to review the items before we see them again.  The letter is not accusing or belittling.  It just states my concerns about some things they may have been "misinformed" about.  I offered to be available if they want to talk or have any questions.  I just hope they don’t become offensive. I’ll let you all know what happens. Tina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My husband bowls every other Sunday in a very casual league.  I bowled with > him last year, kinda as a couple’s night out.  I sat out this year since our > youngest (Keiran) was 1 month old at the beginning of the season and I am > breastfeeding.  There is a young couple that has bowled in the same league > these last 2 seasons.  They have a daughter (Bailey) that is 3 weeks younger > than Keiran.  I’m not sure how old this couple is, but I believe the mother > (Dawn) is barely out of high school and the father (Jim) is a few years > older.  Dawn comes and talks to me quite a bit at the bowling alley.  She > tells me what Bailey is doing, what her doctor says, etc.  She never asks > questions, it seems more like she’s trying to gain approval from me.  (Her > mother isn’t around.)  However, I feel she is either greatly misinformed or > she just hasn’t done any "research" about parenting.  I would like to offer > her some advice, but don’t know how to go about doing it without offending > or "mothering" her.  I am only 28, but Keiran is my 4th child.  I had my 1st > when I was 18, but I was fortunate to have my mother by my side the whole > time. > I’m really concerned about some of the things she tells me.  For example: > 1.  I wanted to nurse Bailey, but I was slightly anemic so my doctor told me > I had to put her on formula. > 2.  Bailey (6 mos old) seemed bored in her infant car seat.  So, we put her > in a regular car seat so she can sit facing forward and see where we are > going. > 3.  Bailey can hold her bottle by herself now.  I’m so happy because I can > put her to bed with her bottle. > 4.  I watched Bailey drink her bottle and I noticed that the formula ran > down the side of her cheek.  It’s not actually running into her ear, so why > is she getting so many ear infections? > 5.  Bailey has had either an ear infection, bronchiolitis, or RSV ever since > she was born.  (They smoke and blow it right in her face while they are > feeding her.) > 6.  The doctor says that Bailey has asthma.  (I asked her what tests they > ran and what meds she’s on.)  They didn’t run any tests and she’s on that > pink bubble gum antibiotic. > 7.  We don’t like to hold Bailey very much so she doesn’t get spoiled. > (She’s 7 months old and can barely sit with support and she’s not rolling > over.) > I would love to offer her some suggestions, without sounding bossy.  For > example: > 1.  I wish I would have told her that she could have taken iron supplements > and continued to breastfeed. > 2.  I’d love to tell her that Bailey still needs to be in a rear facing car > seat until she’s 20 lbs and 1 year old. > 3.  I’d like to tell her about the oral surgery my oldest son had when he > was 3 years old because he took a bottle to bed.  He had to be put under > general anesthesia for 6 root canals. > 4.  I’d like to tell her how children really get ear infections. > 5.  I’d love to tell her the dangers of cigarette smoke and the connection > to upper respiratory infections. > 6.  I’d like to tell her about the test that our son (Bailey also) had run > to diagnose his asthma and the meds that he is taking. > 7.  I’ve tried to show Dawn, but I’d like to sit down and explain the > importance of stimulating her daughter.  Keiran is rolling over, crawling, > pulling himself up on furniture, and walking around furniture.  I talk to > him constantly and am very "hands on" with him.  I didn’t force him to do > these things, I just provided the stimulation and encouragement for him to > explore his surroundings. > Should I try to casually mention these things?  If so, how do I not sound so > bossy or like I’m telling her how to raise her child? > Thanks for any suggestions. > Tina > Cameron (7/17/90), Caleb (7/22/91), Bailey (11/19/97), Keiran (7/18/99)

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Failed birth control…or should I say…user error.  I did not know that I had to take the Pill at the same time every day.  One day I’d take it when I woke up, the next day I’d take it before I went to bed, etc.  However, when I was 25, I got pregnant with my 3rd son while I had Norplant.  That is truly failed birth control.  But, I love all of my sons and am so glad I have them! Tina Cameron (7/17/90), Caleb (7/22/91), Bailey (11/19/97), Keiran (7/18/99) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Im not trying to sound jugemental.  Why did you guys have your kids so > young? > J > My oldest was born when I was 18. She was due the day > before my h.s. graduation and she came 2 weeks later. > I’ll admit, I was not a good mother. I didn’t know what > I was doing, and I stopped breastfeeding because of > mastitis and I didn’t know what to do about it. All > formula caused her to spit up really badly after every > meal. She never stopped until she was off formula. When > she was 6 weeks old, I was in college 8AM-5PM every day > then work whenever I could at night and weekends. She > was in daycare all the damn time and was sick with > infections every week it seemed. The weekends I didn’t > work all freaking day, my baby was at my aunt’s house > overnight, and I’d get her the next morning so I could > get some sleep. I was a very awful mother. My child > wasn’t neglected, not in the sense that she didn’t get > fed and clothed, but I sure didn’t have much to do with > her. I didn’t know WHAT to do. I know it wasn’t my > mom’s job, but she wouldn’t help me or even give me > advice on how to take care of my daughter. I quit > college when she was 6 months old and went to work > full-time, second shift. So she was at my mom’s while I > worked, asleep when I picked her up after work, and she > slept until it was time for me to get ready for work > the next day. > The nights I didn’t work, I did hold her all the time, > and I sang to her and played with her. > When she was almost a year old, I changed completely. I > had just gotten pregnant again. I miss her being a baby > so much because I wasn’t there and I caused her to be > sick so much b/c of daycare and not breastfeeding. I do > feel like total shit and it’s so hard to sleep at night > because I think about when I was not there most of the > time. I cry about it and I go and get my daughter and > hold her. It gets unbearable, sometimes. > Now, I’m pretty much a SAHM but I am in college 2-4 > nights a week while DH stays with the kids(and I kept > with it, this time,I’ll graduate this June). I am so > happy now and I got to see my younger daughter growing > and I get to be here all the time with them. > I am so lucky that I have my oldest daughter, she is so > loving to me. She is a little Marie. I only wish it > hadn’t taken me until she was almost a year old to grow > up and be a mother. > Marie > http://www.freeyellow.com/members6/mommydowis > >Jenn, > >I didn’t mean to offend anyone. I, too, was a young > mother…TWICE. My > >oldest was born 6 weeks after I graduated high school > and my 2nd was born 1 > >year 5 days later. I was just fortunate enough to > have my mom there by my > >side. > Before you buy.

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I was young and stupid. I was 17 and this was the first guy I had fallen in love with. I had been drinking alot of vodka so I wasn’t thinking. I should not have taken a drink of vodka. But I did. And I made mistakes. Marie

>Im not trying to sound jugemental.  Why did you guys have your kids so >young? >J >In article

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My oldest was born when I was 18. She was due the day > before my h.s. graduation and she came 2 weeks later. > I’ll admit, I was not a good mother. I didn’t know what > I was doing, and I stopped breastfeeding because of > mastitis and I didn’t know what to do about it. All > formula caused her to spit up really badly after every > meal. She never stopped until she was off formula. When > she was 6 weeks old, I was in college 8AM-5PM every day > then work whenever I could at night and weekends. She > was in daycare all the damn time and was sick with > infections every week it seemed. The weekends I didn’t > work all freaking day, my baby was at my aunt’s house > overnight, and I’d get her the next morning so I could > get some sleep. I was a very awful mother. My child > wasn’t neglected, not in the sense that she didn’t get > fed and clothed, but I sure didn’t have much to do with > her. I didn’t know WHAT to do. I know it wasn’t my > mom’s job, but she wouldn’t help me or even give me > advice on how to take care of my daughter. I quit > college when she was 6 months old and went to work > full-time, second shift. So she was at my mom’s while I > worked, asleep when I picked her up after work, and she > slept until it was time for me to get ready for work > the next day. > The nights I didn’t work, I did hold her all the time, > and I sang to her and played with her. > When she was almost a year old, I changed completely. I > had just gotten pregnant again. I miss her being a baby > so much because I wasn’t there and I caused her to be > sick so much b/c of daycare and not breastfeeding. I do > feel like total shit and it’s so hard to sleep at night > because I think about when I was not there most of the > time. I cry about it and I go and get my daughter and > hold her. It gets unbearable, sometimes. > Now, I’m pretty much a SAHM but I am in college 2-4 > nights a week while DH stays with the kids(and I kept > with it, this time,I’ll graduate this June). I am so > happy now and I got to see my younger daughter growing > and I get to be here all the time with them. > I am so lucky that I have my oldest daughter, she is so > loving to me. She is a little Marie. I only wish it > hadn’t taken me until she was almost a year old to grow > up and be a mother. > Marie > http://www.freeyellow.com/members6/mommydowis > >Jenn, > >I didn’t mean to offend anyone. I, too, was a young > mother…TWICE. My > >oldest was born 6 weeks after I graduated high school > and my 2nd was born 1 > >year 5 days later. I was just fortunate enough to > have my mom there by my > >side. >Before you buy.

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> Im not trying to sound jugemental.  Why did you guys have your kids so > young? > J

Sometimes babies are not planned.  Even if birth control is used its not 100% effective and babies happen.

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> Im not trying to sound jugemental.  Why did you guys have your kids so > young? > J

It was a miricle I even had her. I was using the pill, condom and have a birth defect that the doctor (specialist)  told me would never ever allow me to have kids. I thought I was protected. I was wrong. I was taking something that affected the pill (and smoking too), condoms break (or aren’t put on right), and they were wrong. I guess I am 1 in a million. Ask anything you want, and I won’t think your being judgemental. It’s better you have an explantion instead of a stereotype (as alot of people think we are stupid, open legged, etc.) jenn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My oldest was born when I was 18. She was due the day > before my h.s. graduation and she came 2 weeks later. > I’ll admit, I was not a good mother. I didn’t know what > I was doing, and I stopped breastfeeding because of > mastitis and I didn’t know what to do about it. All > formula caused her to spit up really badly after every > meal. She never stopped until she was off formula. When > she was 6 weeks old, I was in college 8AM-5PM every day > then work whenever I could at night and weekends. She > was in daycare all the damn time and was sick with > infections every week it seemed. The weekends I didn’t > work all freaking day, my baby was at my aunt’s house > overnight, and I’d get her the next morning so I could > get some sleep. I was a very awful mother. My child > wasn’t neglected, not in the sense that she didn’t get > fed and clothed, but I sure didn’t have much to do with > her. I didn’t know WHAT to do. I know it wasn’t my > mom’s job, but she wouldn’t help me or even give me > advice on how to take care of my daughter. I quit > college when she was 6 months old and went to work > full-time, second shift. So she was at my mom’s while I > worked, asleep when I picked her up after work, and she > slept until it was time for me to get ready for work > the next day. > The nights I didn’t work, I did hold her all the time, > and I sang to her and played with her. > When she was almost a year old, I changed completely. I > had just gotten pregnant again. I miss her being a baby > so much because I wasn’t there and I caused her to be > sick so much b/c of daycare and not breastfeeding. I do > feel like total shit and it’s so hard to sleep at night > because I think about when I was not there most of the > time. I cry about it and I go and get my daughter and > hold her. It gets unbearable, sometimes. > Now, I’m pretty much a SAHM but I am in college 2-4 > nights a week while DH stays with the kids(and I kept > with it, this time,I’ll graduate this June). I am so > happy now and I got to see my younger daughter growing > and I get to be here all the time with them. > I am so lucky that I have my oldest daughter, she is so > loving to me. She is a little Marie. I only wish it > hadn’t taken me until she was almost a year old to grow > up and be a mother. > Marie > http://www.freeyellow.com/members6/mommydowis > >Jenn, > >I didn’t mean to offend anyone. I, too, was a young > mother…TWICE. My > >oldest was born 6 weeks after I graduated high school > and my 2nd was born 1 > >year 5 days later. I was just fortunate enough to > have my mom there by my > >side. > Before you buy.

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Im not trying to sound jugemental.  Why did you guys have your kids so young? J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My oldest was born when I was 18. She was due the day > before my h.s. graduation and she came 2 weeks later. > I’ll admit, I was not a good mother. I didn’t know what > I was doing, and I stopped breastfeeding because of > mastitis and I didn’t know what to do about it. All > formula caused her to spit up really badly after every > meal. She never stopped until she was off formula. When > she was 6 weeks old, I was in college 8AM-5PM every day > then work whenever I could at night and weekends. She > was in daycare all the damn time and was sick with > infections every week it seemed. The weekends I didn’t > work all freaking day, my baby was at my aunt’s house > overnight, and I’d get her the next morning so I could > get some sleep. I was a very awful mother. My child > wasn’t neglected, not in the sense that she didn’t get > fed and clothed, but I sure didn’t have much to do with > her. I didn’t know WHAT to do. I know it wasn’t my > mom’s job, but she wouldn’t help me or even give me > advice on how to take care of my daughter. I quit > college when she was 6 months old and went to work > full-time, second shift. So she was at my mom’s while I > worked, asleep when I picked her up after work, and she > slept until it was time for me to get ready for work > the next day. > The nights I didn’t work, I did hold her all the time, > and I sang to her and played with her. > When she was almost a year old, I changed completely. I > had just gotten pregnant again. I miss her being a baby > so much because I wasn’t there and I caused her to be > sick so much b/c of daycare and not breastfeeding. I do > feel like total shit and it’s so hard to sleep at night > because I think about when I was not there most of the > time. I cry about it and I go and get my daughter and > hold her. It gets unbearable, sometimes. > Now, I’m pretty much a SAHM but I am in college 2-4 > nights a week while DH stays with the kids(and I kept > with it, this time,I’ll graduate this June). I am so > happy now and I got to see my younger daughter growing > and I get to be here all the time with them. > I am so lucky that I have my oldest daughter, she is so > loving to me. She is a little Marie. I only wish it > hadn’t taken me until she was almost a year old to grow > up and be a mother. > Marie > http://www.freeyellow.com/members6/mommydowis >Jenn, >I didn’t mean to offend anyone. I, too, was a young > mother…TWICE. My >oldest was born 6 weeks after I graduated high school > and my 2nd was born 1 >year 5 days later. I was just fortunate enough to > have my mom there by my >side.

Before you buy.

Response:

My oldest was born when I was 18. She was due the day before my h.s. graduation and she came 2 weeks later. I’ll admit, I was not a good mother. I didn’t know what I was doing, and I stopped breastfeeding because of mastitis and I didn’t know what to do about it. All formula caused her to spit up really badly after every meal. She never stopped until she was off formula. When she was 6 weeks old, I was in college 8AM-5PM every day then work whenever I could at night and weekends. She was in daycare all the damn time and was sick with infections every week it seemed. The weekends I didn’t work all freaking day, my baby was at my aunt’s house overnight, and I’d get her the next morning so I could get some sleep. I was a very awful mother. My child wasn’t neglected, not in the sense that she didn’t get fed and clothed, but I sure didn’t have much to do with her. I didn’t know WHAT to do. I know it wasn’t my mom’s job, but she wouldn’t help me or even give me advice on how to take care of my daughter. I quit college when she was 6 months old and went to work full-time, second shift. So she was at my mom’s while I worked, asleep when I picked her up after work, and she slept until it was time for me to get ready for work the next day. The nights I didn’t work, I did hold her all the time, and I sang to her and played with her. When she was almost a year old, I changed completely. I had just gotten pregnant again. I miss her being a baby so much because I wasn’t there and I caused her to be sick so much b/c of daycare and not breastfeeding. I do feel like total shit and it’s so hard to sleep at night because I think about when I was not there most of the time. I cry about it and I go and get my daughter and hold her. It gets unbearable, sometimes. Now, I’m pretty much a SAHM but I am in college 2-4 nights a week while DH stays with the kids(and I kept with it, this time,I’ll graduate this June). I am so happy now and I got to see my younger daughter growing and I get to be here all the time with them. I am so lucky that I have my oldest daughter, she is so loving to me. She is a little Marie. I only wish it hadn’t taken me until she was almost a year old to grow up and be a mother. Marie http://www.freeyellow.com/members6/mommydowis >Jenn, >I didn’t mean to offend anyone.  I, too, was a young mother…TWICE.  My >oldest was born 6 weeks after I graduated high school

and my 2nd was born 1 >year 5 days later.  I was just fortunate enough to

have my mom there by my – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->side.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >   Dawn comes and talks to me quite a bit at the bowling > > alley.  She > > >tells me what Bailey is doing, what her doctor says, etc.  She > > never asks > > >questions, it seems more like she’s trying to gain approval from > > me.  (Her > > >mother isn’t around.)  However, I feel she is either greatly > > misinformed or > > >she just hasn’t done any "research" about parenting.  I would > > like to offer > > >her some advice, but don’t know how to go about doing it without > > offending > > >or "mothering" her. > > I think you are very kind to want to help. She sounds less like > > someone who can’t be bothered than someone who is really young, > > ignorant, and maybe not too bright. Her family is likely to be > > the same — Koolaid in the bottle types — and she is just doing > > what everyone else around her has done. > > I know some of these young women, and just want to scream. They > > don’t breastfeed because no one they know does, and everyone, > > including their mothers, thinks it’s nasty. I’ll bet you money > > there is no way she would have even tried. They probably don’t > > have much money and no decent relationship, which bodes ill for > > the baby. (And I’ll bet you even more money that she uses > > disposables and will use exclusively prepared baby foods. Those > > and the cigarettes should take up most of their disposable > > income.) > > They really do feel good about anything that gets the baby to > > sleep — cereal in the formula, bottle propping, bottle in bed — > > you name it. If you can manage this, you are a successful > > parent. They expect babies to be sick a lot, so aren’t driven to > > question why this should be happening. And they measure success > > by the fact that the kid is alive. I mean, it worked on them; why > > shouldn’t it work on their own kid? > > (A young mother I know, older and college educated, was recently > > explaining to me that her newborn seemed to get gassy and throw > > up with each type of formula they were trying. So far, she seemed > > to respond best the most expensive brand. What do you say? She > > hadn’t tried breastfeeding at all. This baby has had several URIs > > and been in the hospital with pneumonia and she’s less than 4 > > months old.) > > Sorry to be so long-winded. Suggestions: if she is likely to > > listen to what a doctor says, you might mention that your doctor > > says ______ when she tells you something. Even, "Oh, I’ve heard > > of a child care book, by all means give or lend it to her. You > > might even invent a far-away relative who has a similar problem > > (I don’t usually encourage lying but if it helps get the message > > across to her in a nonthreatening way, this is one type that > > would be worth it.)  I’d definitely try to think of some way to > > bring up the smoking. > > Good luck to you. That kid — and her mother — sure need some > > help. > > Lynne > > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion > Network * > > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free! > Speaking up for some of the young mothers here. I agree w/ alot of what > you > said. I am a young mother (I’m 20 my baby’s 2), and I see alot of that in > some > of the other’s my age. I would just like to add that not all of us Younger > mothers are ignorant. I quit smoking when I was pregnant and just weaned > my > daughter. I also graduated high school w/ honours, as did two other > younger moms > in my class. > I’ve found lending my books out to the ones who don’t know (and that’s > usually > what it is, they don’t know anybetter) works. And I never pressure them > about > returning them. (I’d rather them have them to learn) > Jenn > Jenn, > I didn’t mean to offend anyone.  I, too, was a young mother…TWICE.  My > oldest was born 6 weeks after I graduated high school and my 2nd was born 1 > year 5 days later.  I was just fortunate enough to have my mom there by my > side.

No offense taken. just adding to the ownderful things said

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->   Dawn comes and talks to me quite a bit at the bowling > alley.  She > >tells me what Bailey is doing, what her doctor says, etc.  She > never asks > >questions, it seems more like she’s trying to gain approval from > me.  (Her > >mother isn’t around.)  However, I feel she is either greatly > misinformed or > >she just hasn’t done any "research" about parenting.  I would > like to offer > >her some advice, but don’t know how to go about doing it without > offending > >or "mothering" her. > I think you are very kind to want to help. She sounds less like > someone who can’t be bothered than someone who is really young, > ignorant, and maybe not too bright. Her family is likely to be > the same — Koolaid in the bottle types — and she is just doing > what everyone else around her has done. > I know some of these young women, and just want to scream. They > don’t breastfeed because no one they know does, and everyone, > including their mothers, thinks it’s nasty. I’ll bet you money > there is no way she would have even tried. They probably don’t > have much money and no decent relationship, which bodes ill for > the baby. (And I’ll bet you even more money that she uses > disposables and will use exclusively prepared baby foods. Those > and the cigarettes should take up most of their disposable > income.) > They really do feel good about anything that gets the baby to > sleep — cereal in the formula, bottle propping, bottle in bed — > you name it. If you can manage this, you are a successful > parent. They expect babies to be sick a lot, so aren’t driven to > question why this should be happening. And they measure success > by the fact that the kid is alive. I mean, it worked on them; why > shouldn’t it work on their own kid? > (A young mother I know, older and college educated, was recently > explaining to me that her newborn seemed to get gassy and throw > up with each type of formula they were trying. So far, she seemed > to respond best the most expensive brand. What do you say? She > hadn’t tried breastfeeding at all. This baby has had several URIs > and been in the hospital with pneumonia and she’s less than 4 > months old.) > Sorry to be so long-winded. Suggestions: if she is likely to > listen to what a doctor says, you might mention that your doctor > says ______ when she tells you something. Even, "Oh, I’ve heard > of a child care book, by all means give or lend it to her. You > might even invent a far-away relative who has a similar problem > (I don’t usually encourage lying but if it helps get the message > across to her in a nonthreatening way, this is one type that > would be worth it.)  I’d definitely try to think of some way to > bring up the smoking. > Good luck to you. That kid — and her mother — sure need some > help. > Lynne > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free! > Speaking up for some of the young mothers here. I agree w/ alot of what you > said. I am a young mother (I’m 20 my baby’s 2), and I see alot of that in some > of the other’s my age. I would just like to add that not all of us Younger > mothers are ignorant. I quit smoking when I was pregnant and just weaned my > daughter. I also graduated high school w/ honours, as did two other younger moms > in my class. > I’ve found lending my books out to the ones who don’t know (and that’s usually > what it is, they don’t know anybetter) works. And I never pressure them about > returning them. (I’d rather them have them to learn) > Jenn

Jenn, I didn’t mean to offend anyone.  I, too, was a young mother…TWICE.  My oldest was born 6 weeks after I graduated high school and my 2nd was born 1 year 5 days later.  I was just fortunate enough to have my mom there by my side.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >   Dawn comes and talks to me quite a bit at the bowling > alley.  She >tells me what Bailey is doing, what her doctor says, etc.  She > never asks >questions, it seems more like she’s trying to gain approval from > me.  (Her >mother isn’t around.)  However, I feel she is either greatly > misinformed or >she just hasn’t done any "research" about parenting.  I would > like to offer >her some advice, but don’t know how to go about doing it without > offending >or "mothering" her. > I think you are very kind to want to help. She sounds less like > someone who can’t be bothered than someone who is really young, > ignorant, and maybe not too bright. Her family is likely to be > the same — Koolaid in the bottle types — and she is just doing > what everyone else around her has done. > I know some of these young women, and just want to scream. They > don’t breastfeed because no one they know does, and everyone, > including their mothers, thinks it’s nasty. I’ll bet you money > there is no way she would have even tried. They probably don’t > have much money and no decent relationship, which bodes ill for > the baby. (And I’ll bet you even more money that she uses > disposables and will use exclusively prepared baby foods. Those > and the cigarettes should take up most of their disposable > income.) > They really do feel good about anything that gets the baby to > sleep — cereal in the formula, bottle propping, bottle in bed — > you name it. If you can manage this, you are a successful > parent. They expect babies to be sick a lot, so aren’t driven to > question why this should be happening. And they measure success > by the fact that the kid is alive. I mean, it worked on them; why > shouldn’t it work on their own kid? > (A young mother I know, older and college educated, was recently > explaining to me that her newborn seemed to get gassy and throw > up with each type of formula they were trying. So far, she seemed > to respond best the most expensive brand. What do you say? She > hadn’t tried breastfeeding at all. This baby has had several URIs > and been in the hospital with pneumonia and she’s less than 4 > months old.) > Sorry to be so long-winded. Suggestions: if she is likely to > listen to what a doctor says, you might mention that your doctor > says ______ when she tells you something. Even, "Oh, I’ve heard > of a child care book, by all means give or lend it to her. You > might even invent a far-away relative who has a similar problem > (I don’t usually encourage lying but if it helps get the message > across to her in a nonthreatening way, this is one type that > would be worth it.)  I’d definitely try to think of some way to > bring up the smoking. > Good luck to you. That kid — and her mother — sure need some > help. > Lynne > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Speaking up for some of the young mothers here. I agree w/ alot of what you said. I am a young mother (I’m 20 my baby’s 2), and I see alot of that in some of the other’s my age. I would just like to add that not all of us Younger mothers are ignorant. I quit smoking when I was pregnant and just weaned my daughter. I also graduated high school w/ honours, as did two other younger moms in my class. I’ve found lending my books out to the ones who don’t know (and that’s usually what it is, they don’t know anybetter) works. And I never pressure them about returning them. (I’d rather them have them to learn) Jenn

Response:

I agree with the post about the playdate, or a playgroup if you attend one, invite her to come over or to tag along to the group. Some of those things might not be "changeable" on such a short interaction that you are having now, but I would definitely say something about the immediate dangers, like the car seat thing. Maybe if you addressed her as someone who knows as much as you, with a ‘just sharing a different pov’ type of conversation, it wouldn’t be offensive. As someone who looks much younger than I am, I am used to hearing random (unfortunatly "old school")advice  as I am sure she is as well ( such as let him cry it out, or my favorite "if you don’t put earmuffs on him when he’s at the beach (due to the wind and sand, she said), he’ll get ear infections" rofl) ,. So I doubt she would find it some information invasive… Good luck, I hope you can help.. — <end> PGunn Before you buy.

Response:

  Dawn comes and talks to me quite a bit at the bowling alley.  She >tells me what Bailey is doing, what her doctor says, etc.  She never asks >questions, it seems more like she’s trying to gain approval from me.  (Her >mother isn’t around.)  However, I feel she is either greatly misinformed or >she just hasn’t done any "research" about parenting.  I would like to offer >her some advice, but don’t know how to go about doing it without offending >or "mothering" her.

I think you are very kind to want to help. She sounds less like someone who can’t be bothered than someone who is really young, ignorant, and maybe not too bright. Her family is likely to be the same — Koolaid in the bottle types — and she is just doing what everyone else around her has done. I know some of these young women, and just want to scream. They don’t breastfeed because no one they know does, and everyone, including their mothers, thinks it’s nasty. I’ll bet you money there is no way she would have even tried. They probably don’t have much money and no decent relationship, which bodes ill for the baby. (And I’ll bet you even more money that she uses disposables and will use exclusively prepared baby foods. Those and the cigarettes should take up most of their disposable income.) They really do feel good about anything that gets the baby to sleep — cereal in the formula, bottle propping, bottle in bed — you name it. If you can manage this, you are a successful parent. They expect babies to be sick a lot, so aren’t driven to question why this should be happening. And they measure success by the fact that the kid is alive. I mean, it worked on them; why shouldn’t it work on their own kid? (A young mother I know, older and college educated, was recently explaining to me that her newborn seemed to get gassy and throw up with each type of formula they were trying. So far, she seemed to respond best the most expensive brand. What do you say? She hadn’t tried breastfeeding at all. This baby has had several URIs and been in the hospital with pneumonia and she’s less than 4 months old.) Sorry to be so long-winded. Suggestions: if she is likely to listen to what a doctor says, you might mention that your doctor says ______ when she tells you something. Even, "Oh, I’ve heard of a child care book, by all means give or lend it to her. You might even invent a far-away relative who has a similar problem (I don’t usually encourage lying but if it helps get the message across to her in a nonthreatening way, this is one type that would be worth it.)  I’d definitely try to think of some way to bring up the smoking. Good luck to you. That kid — and her mother — sure need some help. Lynne * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I’ve thought about inviting her over.  Her SO is verbally abusive toward her.  I look at them and I see me 10 years ago.  I think that’s why I want to "take her under my wing" and mother her.  I just don’t want to do anything to anger her SO and have him take it out on her or Bailey.  I really like the "What to Expect…" series of books.  I’ll probably get a copy for her.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Would you be comfortable putting together a little package for her.  If it > was nearer to Christmas I’d suggest using that as an excuse…….anyhow, > get a copy of Dr. Spock or some type of child care video (since she’s > younger she may be more likely to watch a video than read a book), maybe > some stimulating toys for the baby, maybe a packet of brochures from the > local hospital or doctor or social services agency with info not just about > child care but about where to find things in the community.  If you’re up > for it maybe even invite her and the baby over for a "playdate" so that she > has an example of more active parenting.  Invite a couple of other mothers > if you know any with babies so it doesn’t seem geared so much to just her > (and so she sees you’re not the only one doing this type of stuff). > Good luck > My husband bowls every other Sunday in a very casual league.  I bowled > with > him last year, kinda as a couple’s night out.  I sat out this year since > our > youngest (Keiran) was 1 month old at the beginning of the season and I am > breastfeeding.  There is a young couple that has bowled in the same league > these last 2 seasons.  They have a daughter (Bailey) that is 3 weeks > younger > than Keiran.  I’m not sure how old this couple is, but I believe the > mother > (Dawn) is barely out of high school and the father (Jim) is a few years > older.  Dawn comes and talks to me quite a bit at the bowling alley. She > tells me what Bailey is doing, what her doctor says, etc.  She never asks > questions, it seems more like she’s trying to gain approval from me. (Her > mother isn’t around.)  However, I feel she is either greatly misinformed > or > she just hasn’t done any "research" about parenting.  I would like to > offer > her some advice, but don’t know how to go about doing it without offending > or "mothering" her.  I am only 28, but Keiran is my 4th child.  I had my > 1st > when I was 18, but I was fortunate to have my mother by my side the whole > time. > I’m really concerned about some of the things she tells me.  For example: > 1.  I wanted to nurse Bailey, but I was slightly anemic so my doctor told > me > I had to put her on formula. > 2.  Bailey (6 mos old) seemed bored in her infant car seat.  So, we put > her > in a regular car seat so she can sit facing forward and see where we are > going. > 3.  Bailey can hold her bottle by herself now.  I’m so happy because I can > put her to bed with her bottle. > 4.  I watched Bailey drink her bottle and I noticed that the formula ran > down the side of her cheek.  It’s not actually running into her ear, so > why > is she getting so many ear infections? > 5.  Bailey has had either an ear infection, bronchiolitis, or RSV ever > since > she was born.  (They smoke and blow it right in her face while they are > feeding her.) > 6.  The doctor says that Bailey has asthma.  (I asked her what tests they > ran and what meds she’s on.)  They didn’t run any tests and she’s on that > pink bubble gum antibiotic. > 7.  We don’t like to hold Bailey very much so she doesn’t get spoiled. > (She’s 7 months old and can barely sit with support and she’s not rolling > over.) > I would love to offer her some suggestions, without sounding bossy.  For > example: > 1.  I wish I would have told her that she could have taken iron > supplements > and continued to breastfeed. > 2.  I’d love to tell her that Bailey still needs to be in a rear facing > car > seat until she’s 20 lbs and 1 year old. > 3.  I’d like to tell her about the oral surgery my oldest son had when he > was 3 years old because he took a bottle to bed.  He had to be put under > general anesthesia for 6 root canals. > 4.  I’d like to tell her how children really get ear infections. > 5.  I’d love to tell her the dangers of cigarette smoke and the connection > to upper respiratory infections. > 6.  I’d like to tell her about the test that our son (Bailey also) had run > to diagnose his asthma and the meds that he is taking. > 7.  I’ve tried to show Dawn, but I’d like to sit down and explain the > importance of stimulating her daughter.  Keiran is rolling over, crawling, > pulling himself up on furniture, and walking around furniture.  I talk to > him constantly and am very "hands on" with him.  I didn’t force him to do > these things, I just provided the stimulation and encouragement for him to > explore his surroundings. > Should I try to casually mention these things?  If so, how do I not sound > so > bossy or like I’m telling her how to raise her child? > Thanks for any suggestions. > Tina > Cameron (7/17/90), Caleb (7/22/91), Bailey (11/19/97), Keiran (7/18/99)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My husband bowls every other Sunday in a very casual league.  I bowled with > him last year, kinda as a couple’s night out.  I sat out this year since our > youngest (Keiran) was 1 month old at the beginning of the season and I am > breastfeeding.  There is a young couple that has bowled in the same league > these last 2 seasons.  They have a daughter (Bailey) that is 3 weeks younger > than Keiran.  I’m not sure how old this couple is, but I believe the mother > (Dawn) is barely out of high school and the father (Jim) is a few years > older.  Dawn comes and talks to me quite a bit at the bowling alley.  She > tells me what Bailey is doing, what her doctor says, etc.  She never asks > questions, it seems more like she’s trying to gain approval from me.  (Her > mother isn’t around.)  However, I feel she is either greatly misinformed or > she just hasn’t done any "research" about parenting.  I would like to offer > her some advice, but don’t know how to go about doing it without offending > or "mothering" her.  I am only 28, but Keiran is my 4th child.  I had my 1st > when I was 18, but I was fortunate to have my mother by my side the whole > time. > I’m really concerned about some of the things she tells me.  For example:

Here’s what she actually is thinking: > 1.  I wanted to nurse Bailey, but I was slightly anemic so my doctor told me > I had to put her on formula.

I thought of a reason later so I could say that to women who made me feel guilty. I’m too embarrassed to BF and afraid I’d look different. > 2.  Bailey (6 mos old) seemed bored in her infant car seat.  So, we put her > in a regular car seat so she can sit facing forward and see where we are > going.

We’re too poor to buy the car seat, they cost too much and the baby screams when we want to go bowling. > 3.  Bailey can hold her bottle by herself now.  I’m so happy because I can > put her to bed with her bottle.

Kids really bore me but I feel guilty so I invent reasons why I try to ignore them as much as possible. > 4.  I watched Bailey drink her bottle and I noticed that the formula ran > down the side of her cheek.  It’s not actually running into her ear, so why > is she getting so many ear infections?

I’m afraid later after I forget to wash her for a week or two other than spills. Kids are so much trouble. > 5.  Bailey has had either an ear infection, bronchiolitis, or RSV ever since > she was born.  (They smoke and blow it right in her face while they are > feeding her.)

Classic. They want to still be cool, that’s all they’ve got left. > 6.  The doctor says that Bailey has asthma.  (I asked her what tests they > ran and what meds she’s on.)  They didn’t run any tests and she’s on that > pink bubble gum antibiotic.

They gave her that once and she thinks that’s used for everything, even asthma, which her brother had that sounded like that. They didn’t actually go to the doctor, she had some left from last time… > 7.  We don’t like to hold Bailey very much so she doesn’t get spoiled. > (She’s 7 months old and can barely sit with support and she’s not rolling > over.)

We really hate having kids, don’t you? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I would love to offer her some suggestions, without sounding bossy.  For > example: > 1.  I wish I would have told her that she could have taken iron supplements > and continued to breastfeed. > 2.  I’d love to tell her that Bailey still needs to be in a rear facing car > seat until she’s 20 lbs and 1 year old. > 3.  I’d like to tell her about the oral surgery my oldest son had when he > was 3 years old because he took a bottle to bed.  He had to be put under > general anesthesia for 6 root canals. > 4.  I’d like to tell her how children really get ear infections. > 5.  I’d love to tell her the dangers of cigarette smoke and the connection > to upper respiratory infections. > 6.  I’d like to tell her about the test that our son (Bailey also) had run > to diagnose his asthma and the meds that he is taking. > 7.  I’ve tried to show Dawn, but I’d like to sit down and explain the > importance of stimulating her daughter.  Keiran is rolling over, crawling, > pulling himself up on furniture, and walking around furniture.  I talk to > him constantly and am very "hands on" with him.  I didn’t force him to do > these things, I just provided the stimulation and encouragement for him to > explore his surroundings. > Should I try to casually mention these things?  If so, how do I not sound so > bossy or like I’m telling her how to raise her child? > Thanks for any suggestions. > Tina > Cameron (7/17/90), Caleb (7/22/91), Bailey (11/19/97), Keiran (7/18/99)

Whether you need to buy the kind of trouble you might receive is the reason I won’t tell you that you have to, but if you can’t tell that poor girl what you’ve been thinking at least get away from them and stop being tortured. Actually I think you should show her these posts!! Steve

Response:

Would you be comfortable putting together a little package for her.  If it was nearer to Christmas I’d suggest using that as an excuse…….anyhow, get a copy of Dr. Spock or some type of child care video (since she’s younger she may be more likely to watch a video than read a book), maybe some stimulating toys for the baby, maybe a packet of brochures from the local hospital or doctor or social services agency with info not just about child care but about where to find things in the community.  If you’re up for it maybe even invite her and the baby over for a "playdate" so that she has an example of more active parenting.  Invite a couple of other mothers if you know any with babies so it doesn’t seem geared so much to just her (and so she sees you’re not the only one doing this type of stuff). Good luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My husband bowls every other Sunday in a very casual league.  I bowled with > him last year, kinda as a couple’s night out.  I sat out this year since our > youngest (Keiran) was 1 month old at the beginning of the season and I am > breastfeeding.  There is a young couple that has bowled in the same league > these last 2 seasons.  They have a daughter (Bailey) that is 3 weeks younger > than Keiran.  I’m not sure how old this couple is, but I believe the mother > (Dawn) is barely out of high school and the father (Jim) is a few years > older.  Dawn comes and talks to me quite a bit at the bowling alley.  She > tells me what Bailey is doing, what her doctor says, etc.  She never asks > questions, it seems more like she’s trying to gain approval from me.  (Her > mother isn’t around.)  However, I feel she is either greatly misinformed or > she just hasn’t done any "research" about parenting.  I would like to offer > her some advice, but don’t know how to go about doing it without offending > or "mothering" her.  I am only 28, but Keiran is my 4th child.  I had my 1st > when I was 18, but I was fortunate to have my mother by my side the whole > time. > I’m really concerned about some of the things she tells me.  For example: > 1.  I wanted to nurse Bailey, but I was slightly anemic so my doctor told me > I had to put her on formula. > 2.  Bailey (6 mos old) seemed bored in her infant car seat.  So, we put her > in a regular car seat so she can sit facing forward and see where we are > going. > 3.  Bailey can hold her bottle by herself now.  I’m so happy because I can > put her to bed with her bottle. > 4.  I watched Bailey drink her bottle and I noticed that the formula ran > down the side of her cheek.  It’s not actually running into her ear, so why > is she getting so many ear infections? > 5.  Bailey has had either an ear infection, bronchiolitis, or RSV ever since > she was born.  (They smoke and blow it right in her face while they are > feeding her.) > 6.  The doctor says that Bailey has asthma.  (I asked her what tests they > ran and what meds she’s on.)  They didn’t run any tests and she’s on that > pink bubble gum antibiotic. > 7.  We don’t like to hold Bailey very much so she doesn’t get spoiled. > (She’s 7 months old and can barely sit with support and she’s not rolling > over.) > I would love to offer her some suggestions, without sounding bossy.  For > example: > 1.  I wish I would have told her that she could have taken iron supplements > and continued to breastfeed. > 2.  I’d love to tell her that Bailey still needs to be in a rear facing car > seat until she’s 20 lbs and 1 year old. > 3.  I’d like to tell her about the oral surgery my oldest son had when he > was 3 years old because he took a bottle to bed.  He had to be put under > general anesthesia for 6 root canals. > 4.  I’d like to tell her how children really get ear infections. > 5.  I’d love to tell her the dangers of cigarette smoke and the connection > to upper respiratory infections. > 6.  I’d like to tell her about the test that our son (Bailey also) had run > to diagnose his asthma and the meds that he is taking. > 7.  I’ve tried to show Dawn, but I’d like to sit down and explain the > importance of stimulating her daughter.  Keiran is rolling over, crawling, > pulling himself up on furniture, and walking around furniture.  I talk to > him constantly and am very "hands on" with him.  I didn’t force him to do > these things, I just provided the stimulation and encouragement for him to > explore his surroundings. > Should I try to casually mention these things?  If so, how do I not sound so > bossy or like I’m telling her how to raise her child? > Thanks for any suggestions. > Tina > Cameron (7/17/90), Caleb (7/22/91), Bailey (11/19/97), Keiran (7/18/99)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You could just let her know that you’re available if she has any questions > about baby safety and illnesses and that you have a few suggestions that > might help her if she’s interested and to let you know. > Your local hospital or maternity ward may also have brochures on baby > safety > and illness that you could give her as well.  My fav’d book for these > things > is Dr. Spocks Baby and Childcare and I have loaned/given away many copies > (as close to the original edition as you can find.  The new one has been > completely altered by others and is full of pop child rearing). > Good luck! > This might be a good way to approach her as it is not likely to be perceived > as meddling or controlling.  You could also try being proactive by picking a > topic and approaching her to say something along the lines of "Hey, did you > hear about…." and feeding her some info that way, sounding something like > you just heard it and just had to share it because it was so interesting or > applied to her or whatever. > I am concerned about her child’s degree of milestone achievement.  Not > rolling over and just barely sitting up at that age could be due to low > social stimulation from mom and dad, but I am more than somewhat concerned > that there is a physical reason for this and it should be explored.  If she > starts comparing her baby’s progress to another’s and wonders why he lags > behind you might ask if she has discussed this with the pediatrician/if she > goes to the pediatrician etc. > Good luck.  I would be interested to hear how things work out. > – Aula

I am absolutely "in love" with my pediatrician.  My 2nd son was a preemie. My ped checked on him every day and then called me and explained everything to me.  My well-child appointments are scheduled for an hour so he can go over everything.  He is always available if I need him and never makes me feel like I am a bother.  Dawn, on the other hand, takes Bailey to the clinic.  From what I’ve heard, they just prescribe antibiotics and send them on their way.  At well-child visits, they just give shots and send them on their way again.  They don’t explain milestones, feeding schedules, safety, etc.  I’ve told her about my pediatrician, but she doesn’t seem interested.

Response:

I would also lend her a copy of your favorite baby care/parenting book. I think she’s probably *looking* for advice, so I wouldn’t be too afraid to give it, but it should of course be done gently and in small but effective doses. Sounds like she’s parenting as she was parented or has seen people around her do it – many of the things you listed sounds like the methods of a generation ago.  So she’s a motivated parent, just badly informed. But another reason to be gentle about advice – you don’t want to disparage those close to her who might be giving her outdated advice. Good luck, Banty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > You could just let her know that you’re available if she has any questions > about baby safety and illnesses and that you have a few suggestions that > might help her if she’s interested and to let you know. > Your local hospital or maternity ward may also have brochures on baby safety > and illness that you could give her as well.  My fav’d book for these things > is Dr. Spocks Baby and Childcare and I have loaned/given away many copies > (as close to the original edition as you can find.  The new one has been > completely altered by others and is full of pop child rearing). > Good luck! > My husband bowls every other Sunday in a very casual league.  I bowled > with > him last year, kinda as a couple’s night out.  I sat out this year since > our > youngest (Keiran) was 1 month old at the beginning of the season and I am > breastfeeding.  There is a young couple that has bowled in the same league > these last 2 seasons.  They have a daughter (Bailey) that is 3 weeks > younger > than Keiran.  I’m not sure how old this couple is, but I believe the > mother > (Dawn) is barely out of high school and the father (Jim) is a few years > older.  Dawn comes and talks to me quite a bit at the bowling alley.  She > tells me what Bailey is doing, what her doctor says, etc.  She never asks > questions, it seems more like she’s trying to gain approval from me.  (Her > mother isn’t around.)  However, I feel she is either greatly misinformed > or > she just hasn’t done any "research" about parenting.  I would like to > offer > her some advice, but don’t know how to go about doing it without offending > or "mothering" her.  I am only 28, but Keiran is my 4th child.  I had my > 1st > when I was 18, but I was fortunate to have my mother by my side the whole > time. > I’m really concerned about some of the things she tells me.  For example: > 1.  I wanted to nurse Bailey, but I was slightly anemic so my doctor told > me > I had to put her on formula. > 2.  Bailey (6 mos old) seemed bored in her infant car seat.  So, we put > her > in a regular car seat so she can sit facing forward and see where we are > going. > 3.  Bailey can hold her bottle by herself now.  I’m so happy because I can > put her to bed with her bottle. > 4.  I watched Bailey drink her bottle and I noticed that the formula ran > down the side of her cheek.  It’s not actually running into her ear, so > why > is she getting so many ear infections? > 5.  Bailey has had either an ear infection, bronchiolitis, or RSV ever > since > she was born.  (They smoke and blow it right in her face while they are > feeding her.) > 6.  The doctor says that Bailey has asthma.  (I asked her what tests they > ran and what meds she’s on.)  They didn’t run any tests and she’s on that > pink bubble gum antibiotic. > 7.  We don’t like to hold Bailey very much so she doesn’t get spoiled. > (She’s 7 months old and can barely sit with support and she’s not rolling > over.) > I would love to offer her some suggestions, without sounding bossy.  For > example: > 1.  I wish I would have told her that she could have taken iron > supplements > and continued to breastfeed. > 2.  I’d love to tell her that Bailey still needs to be in a rear facing > car > seat until she’s 20 lbs and 1 year old. > 3.  I’d like to tell her about the oral surgery my oldest son had when he > was 3 years old because he took a bottle to bed.  He had to be put under > general anesthesia for 6 root canals. > 4.  I’d like to tell her how children really get ear infections. > 5.  I’d love to tell her the dangers of cigarette smoke and the connection > to upper respiratory infections. > 6.  I’d like to tell her about the test that our son (Bailey also) had run > to diagnose his asthma and the meds that he is taking. > 7.  I’ve tried to show Dawn, but I’d like to sit down and explain the > importance of stimulating her daughter.  Keiran is rolling over, crawling, > pulling himself up on furniture, and walking around furniture.  I talk to > him constantly and am very "hands on" with him.  I didn’t force him to do > these things, I just provided the stimulation and encouragement for him to > explore his surroundings. > Should I try to casually mention these things?  If so, how do I not sound > so > bossy or like I’m telling her how to raise her child? > Thanks for any suggestions. > Tina > Cameron (7/17/90), Caleb (7/22/91), Bailey (11/19/97), Keiran (7/18/99)

Response:

Stop stop!!! I can’t stand it! You are breaking my heart. Maybe if you asked her questions- Like "oh I didn’t know you could put the baby in the car seat this early- what did your doctor say?" Also- maybe you could tell her about someone else – Say my SIL’s baby was having lots of ear infections and her doctor said not to smoke in the house with her etc… Could you give her some Parenting magazines tell her you are finished with them? It sounds like you are a good parent maybe she will learn some things by just being around you.  I understand that parenting is subjective- and we don’t all do things the same way- but this girl sounds like she really needs some help. J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My husband bowls every other Sunday in a very casual league.  I bowled with > him last year, kinda as a couple’s night out.  I sat out this year since our > youngest (Keiran) was 1 month old at the beginning of the season and I am > breastfeeding.  There is a young couple that has bowled in the same league > these last 2 seasons.  They have a daughter (Bailey) that is 3 weeks younger > than Keiran.  I’m not sure how old this couple is, but I believe the mother > (Dawn) is barely out of high school and the father (Jim) is a few years > older.  Dawn comes and talks to me quite a bit at the bowling alley. She > tells me what Bailey is doing, what her doctor says, etc.  She never asks > questions, it seems more like she’s trying to gain approval from me. (Her > mother isn’t around.)  However, I feel she is either greatly misinformed or > she just hasn’t done any "research" about parenting.  I would like to offer > her some advice, but don’t know how to go about doing it without offending > or "mothering" her.  I am only 28, but Keiran is my 4th child.  I had my 1st > when I was 18, but I was fortunate to have my mother by my side the whole > time. > I’m really concerned about some of the things she tells me.  For example: > 1.  I wanted to nurse Bailey, but I was slightly anemic so my doctor told me > I had to put her on formula. > 2.  Bailey (6 mos old) seemed bored in her infant car seat.  So, we put her > in a regular car seat so she can sit facing forward and see where we are > going. > 3.  Bailey can hold her bottle by herself now.  I’m so happy because I can > put her to bed with her bottle. > 4.  I watched Bailey drink her bottle and I noticed that the formula ran > down the side of her cheek.  It’s not actually running into her ear, so why > is she getting so many ear infections? > 5.  Bailey has had either an ear infection, bronchiolitis, or RSV ever since > she was born.  (They smoke and blow it right in her face while they are > feeding her.) > 6.  The doctor says that Bailey has asthma.  (I asked her what tests they > ran and what meds she’s on.)  They didn’t run any tests and she’s on that > pink bubble gum antibiotic. > 7.  We don’t like to hold Bailey very much so she doesn’t get spoiled. > (She’s 7 months old and can barely sit with support and she’s not rolling > over.) > I would love to offer her some suggestions, without sounding bossy. For > example: > 1.  I wish I would have told her that she could have taken iron supplements > and continued to breastfeed. > 2.  I’d love to tell her that Bailey still needs to be in a rear facing car > seat until she’s 20 lbs and 1 year old. > 3.  I’d like to tell her about the oral surgery my oldest son had when he > was 3 years old because he took a bottle to bed.  He had to be put under > general anesthesia for 6 root canals. > 4.  I’d like to tell her how children really get ear infections. > 5.  I’d love to tell her the dangers of cigarette smoke and the connection > to upper respiratory infections. > 6.  I’d like to tell her about the test that our son (Bailey also) had run > to diagnose his asthma and the meds that he is taking. > 7.  I’ve tried to show Dawn, but I’d like to sit down and explain the > importance of stimulating her daughter.  Keiran is rolling over, crawling, > pulling himself up on furniture, and walking around furniture.  I talk to > him constantly and am very "hands on" with him.  I didn’t force him to do > these things, I just provided the stimulation and encouragement for him to > explore his surroundings. > Should I try to casually mention these things?  If so, how do I not sound so > bossy or like I’m telling her how to raise her child? > Thanks for any suggestions. > Tina > Cameron (7/17/90), Caleb (7/22/91), Bailey (11/19/97), Keiran (7/18/99)

Before you buy.

Response:

> You could just let her know that you’re available if she has any questions > about baby safety and illnesses and that you have a few suggestions that > might help her if she’s interested and to let you know. > Your local hospital or maternity ward may also have brochures on baby safety > and illness that you could give her as well.  My fav’d book for these things > is Dr. Spocks Baby and Childcare and I have loaned/given away many copies > (as close to the original edition as you can find.  The new one has been > completely altered by others and is full of pop child rearing). > Good luck!

This might be a good way to approach her as it is not likely to be perceived as meddling or controlling.  You could also try being proactive by picking a topic and approaching her to say something along the lines of "Hey, did you hear about…." and feeding her some info that way, sounding something like you just heard it and just had to share it because it was so interesting or applied to her or whatever. I am concerned about her child’s degree of milestone achievement.  Not rolling over and just barely sitting up at that age could be due to low social stimulation from mom and dad, but I am more than somewhat concerned that there is a physical reason for this and it should be explored.  If she starts comparing her baby’s progress to another’s and wonders why he lags behind you might ask if she has discussed this with the pediatrician/if she goes to the pediatrician etc. Good luck.  I would be interested to hear how things work out. – Aula

Response:

You could just let her know that you’re available if she has any questions about baby safety and illnesses and that you have a few suggestions that might help her if she’s interested and to let you know. Your local hospital or maternity ward may also have brochures on baby safety and illness that you could give her as well.  My fav’d book for these things is Dr. Spocks Baby and Childcare and I have loaned/given away many copies (as close to the original edition as you can find.  The new one has been completely altered by others and is full of pop child rearing). Good luck! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My husband bowls every other Sunday in a very casual league.  I bowled with > him last year, kinda as a couple’s night out.  I sat out this year since our > youngest (Keiran) was 1 month old at the beginning of the season and I am > breastfeeding.  There is a young couple that has bowled in the same league > these last 2 seasons.  They have a daughter (Bailey) that is 3 weeks younger > than Keiran.  I’m not sure how old this couple is, but I believe the mother > (Dawn) is barely out of high school and the father (Jim) is a few years > older.  Dawn comes and talks to me quite a bit at the bowling alley.  She > tells me what Bailey is doing, what her doctor says, etc.  She never asks > questions, it seems more like she’s trying to gain approval from me.  (Her > mother isn’t around.)  However, I feel she is either greatly misinformed or > she just hasn’t done any "research" about parenting.  I would like to offer > her some advice, but don’t know how to go about doing it without offending > or "mothering" her.  I am only 28, but Keiran is my 4th child.  I had my 1st > when I was 18, but I was fortunate to have my mother by my side the whole > time. > I’m really concerned about some of the things she tells me.  For example: > 1.  I wanted to nurse Bailey, but I was slightly anemic so my doctor told me > I had to put her on formula. > 2.  Bailey (6 mos old) seemed bored in her infant car seat.  So, we put her > in a regular car seat so she can sit facing forward and see where we are > going. > 3.  Bailey can hold her bottle by herself now.  I’m so happy because I can > put her to bed with her bottle. > 4.  I watched Bailey drink her bottle and I noticed that the formula ran > down the side of her cheek.  It’s not actually running into her ear, so why > is she getting so many ear infections? > 5.  Bailey has had either an ear infection, bronchiolitis, or RSV ever since > she was born.  (They smoke and blow it right in her face while they are > feeding her.) > 6.  The doctor says that Bailey has asthma.  (I asked her what tests they > ran and what meds she’s on.)  They didn’t run any tests and she’s on that > pink bubble gum antibiotic. > 7.  We don’t like to hold Bailey very much so she doesn’t get spoiled. > (She’s 7 months old and can barely sit with support and she’s not rolling > over.) > I would love to offer her some suggestions, without sounding bossy.  For > example: > 1.  I wish I would have told her that she could have taken iron supplements > and continued to breastfeed. > 2.  I’d love to tell her that Bailey still needs to be in a rear facing car > seat until she’s 20 lbs and 1 year old. > 3.  I’d like to tell her about the oral surgery my oldest son had when he > was 3 years old because he took a bottle to bed.  He had to be put under > general anesthesia for 6 root canals. > 4.  I’d like to tell her how children really get ear infections. > 5.  I’d love to tell her the dangers of cigarette smoke and the connection > to upper respiratory infections. > 6.  I’d like to tell her about the test that our son (Bailey also) had run > to diagnose his asthma and the meds that he is taking. > 7.  I’ve tried to show Dawn, but I’d like to sit down and explain the > importance of stimulating her daughter.  Keiran is rolling over, crawling, > pulling himself up on furniture, and walking around furniture.  I talk to > him constantly and am very "hands on" with him.  I didn’t force him to do > these things, I just provided the stimulation and encouragement for him to > explore his surroundings. > Should I try to casually mention these things?  If so, how do I not sound so > bossy or like I’m telling her how to raise her child? > Thanks for any suggestions. > Tina > Cameron (7/17/90), Caleb (7/22/91), Bailey (11/19/97), Keiran (7/18/99)

Response:

My husband bowls every other Sunday in a very casual league.  I bowled with him last year, kinda as a couple’s night out.  I sat out this year since our youngest (Keiran) was 1 month old at the beginning of the season and I am breastfeeding.  There is a young couple that has bowled in the same league these last 2 seasons.  They have a daughter (Bailey) that is 3 weeks younger than Keiran.  I’m not sure how old this couple is, but I believe the mother (Dawn) is barely out of high school and the father (Jim) is a few years older.  Dawn comes and talks to me quite a bit at the bowling alley.  She tells me what Bailey is doing, what her doctor says, etc.  She never asks questions, it seems more like she’s trying to gain approval from me.  (Her mother isn’t around.)  However, I feel she is either greatly misinformed or she just hasn’t done any "research" about parenting.  I would like to offer her some advice, but don’t know how to go about doing it without offending or "mothering" her.  I am only 28, but Keiran is my 4th child.  I had my 1st when I was 18, but I was fortunate to have my mother by my side the whole time. I’m really concerned about some of the things she tells me.  For example: 1.  I wanted to nurse Bailey, but I was slightly anemic so my doctor told me I had to put her on formula. 2.  Bailey (6 mos old) seemed bored in her infant car seat.  So, we put her in a regular car seat so she can sit facing forward and see where we are going. 3.  Bailey can hold her bottle by herself now.  I’m so happy because I can put her to bed with her bottle. 4.  I watched Bailey drink her bottle and I noticed that the formula ran down the side of her cheek.  It’s not actually running into her ear, so why is she getting so many ear infections? 5.  Bailey has had either an ear infection, bronchiolitis, or RSV ever since she was born.  (They smoke and blow it right in her face while they are feeding her.) 6.  The doctor says that Bailey has asthma.  (I asked her what tests they ran and what meds she’s on.)  They didn’t run any tests and she’s on that pink bubble gum antibiotic. 7.  We don’t like to hold Bailey very much so she doesn’t get spoiled. (She’s 7 months old and can barely sit with support and she’s not rolling over.) I would love to offer her some suggestions, without sounding bossy.  For example: 1.  I wish I would have told her that she could have taken iron supplements and continued to breastfeed. 2.  I’d love to tell her that Bailey still needs to be in a rear facing car seat until she’s 20 lbs and 1 year old. 3.  I’d like to tell her about the oral surgery my oldest son had when he was 3 years old because he took a bottle to bed.  He had to be put under general anesthesia for 6 root canals. 4.  I’d like to tell her how children really get ear infections. 5.  I’d love to tell her the dangers of cigarette smoke and the connection to upper respiratory infections. 6.  I’d like to tell her about the test that our son (Bailey also) had run to diagnose his asthma and the meds that he is taking. 7.  I’ve tried to show Dawn, but I’d like to sit down and explain the importance of stimulating her daughter.  Keiran is rolling over, crawling, pulling himself up on furniture, and walking around furniture.  I talk to him constantly and am very "hands on" with him.  I didn’t force him to do these things, I just provided the stimulation and encouragement for him to explore his surroundings. Should I try to casually mention these things?  If so, how do I not sound so bossy or like I’m telling her how to raise her child? Thanks for any suggestions. Tina Cameron (7/17/90), Caleb (7/22/91), Bailey (11/19/97), Keiran (7/18/99)

Response: