Question:
I am new here and de-lurking for t the first time. I was very disturbed by your responce to this poor woman who is at her wits end. What right do you have to make her feel worse than what she already does with the hateful post about children growing into teenagers and killing thier parents?? I have a 13 year old brother that as a five year old took a straight razor to school and cut another child just to see what would happen. He was a violent child as well. Just for the record my brother was born with Fetal Alcohol Syndrom and has been diagonosed with ADHD. For the longest time meds. didn’t even seem to help. My brother is still in councling with my mother and grandmother who is helping to raise him. The only father figures that my brother have had (and to the best of my knowledge has never met his father) are the boyfriends that my mother has had. There is obviously something very wrong that this womans child (that you responded so horribly to) for him to act this way. This woman turned here for help only to be made to feel worse. Did you stop and think for one minute that your words may have put her in tears and made her feel more desperate? Yet you are offended by the responce that you got from someone? I was offended by your original post more than the foul language that was used. Maybe your life is all peaches and cream and you have children that are perfect little angels that have never done anything wrong (although I seriously doubt that) but you really need to show a little more consideration for those with real problems. You ever think that maybe this woman is trying to prevent this dear boy of becoming a terror when he is older. According to you it is all hopeless and nothing she or anyone else does can help her son. I seriously think that you need to re-evaluate your judgement of others. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > If you can’t speak without swearing, you have no business on a public > forum. This newsgroup is read by people of all ages. Many of them children. > Other people have religious objections to the use of the name of their god > in vain. You might think that because your obscenities are directed at one > person or another, that this excuses you. You are not excused. Shame on you. > Take a deep breath, and go sit in the corner for an hour. >Goddamn it, Elaine, SHUT THE FUCK UP! What is WRONG with you??? The woman >is concerned, and your solution/advice/whatever the hell you call it is to >tell her about a kid who killed his parents? God, you are the MEANEST >human being I’ve ever met. Your parents did a lousy job with you, lady >(and I use the word "lady" very loosely). >Kathleen >wisdom, writ: >> This is a long and difficult story. All of the adults involved seem like >>good, reasonable people. >> Who can help you? I dunno. You sure have your work cut out for you. >> Your story reminds me of another bright, attractive, well loved boy from > my >>own community here in Oregon. That boy’s name is Kip Kinkel. >> His parents were a stable, married loving couple. They were both > educators. >>They only had two kids, so there was plenty of time attention and material >>goods for everyone. >> Kip had always been enamored of anything violent. He loved guns, and > would >>make a gun out of anything. He loved to play guns and wargames. He was >>interested in anything conserned with explosives, the military, war, the >>police, bombmaking, crime. >> When Kip became an adolecent, his parents got him some guns. For target >>practice, as a hobby, but most of all, so that the gun loving lad could >>learn all about the safe, responsible use and discharge of firearms. >> When he was 15, this well brought up boy from a good family shot his >>parents to death. He then went to his school, and proceeded to open fire > on >>the other students in the cafeteria. >>>I am the stepmother of a 4-year-old boy who is having some problems at >>>daycare. He’s had problems with agression all along, but mostly it was > an >>>inability to control a temper (which isn’t acceptable by any standard, > but >>>at least it’s easy to see where it’s coming from). We’ve been through >>>counseling and he’s been evaluated for ADHD (he doesn’t have it). We’ve >>>tried many different things to try and change his behaviour, and >>>everything works a little, but nothing works for good. We do not believe >>>in hitting, but it does happen on rare occasions. >>>His mom and dad split up when she was pregnant with him, and I started >>>dating his father a month before his birth, so I’ve been around his > entire >>>life, and have a fairly good relationship (could be better, of course). > I >>>also have a good relationship with his mother, as does my husband. His >>>step dad is also a very decent guy. His birth parents have worked hard >>>from day one to remain on good terms and to work together to raise him. >>>BTW, his father had almost exactly the same aggression problems as a > young >>>child, and eventually outgrew them. >>>His TV watching is very strictly limited–only pre-approved videos at our >>>house, carefully monitored TV watching at his mom’s. >>>Recently, however, he’s gotten worse. Instead of merely losing his > temper >>>and lashing out, he’s started victimizing other kids. He tried to stab a >>>kid with scissors a month ago, and twice last week stabbed a kid with a >>>pencil. Fortunately there were no injuries, but we are at wit’s end. We >>>are back in counseling, and this time all four of his parental figures > are >>>attending (as apposed to only his birth parents). We are all reading the >>>same parenting books to try and work out a consistent approach. >>>After the first pencil-poking incident, Chris (the Dad) and I warned him >>>that if it happened again, we were going to take away all his toys, which >>>is what we did. Psychologist said it was important to follow through, and >>>didn’t feel it was an inappropriate punishment. At school, G (the kid) >>>gets ’smileys’ for having a violence-free morning or afternoon, and we >>>save them up to buy things (they are worth about 50 cents in real money), >>>and we are allowing him to "buy" back one of his toys for each smiley he >>>earns. However, incidents of serious violence will get his toys removed >>>again. At school (Montessori), he gets his freedoms removed for the >>>entire day for serious incidents, smaller units of time for lesser >>>incidents. During the time outs, he sits by himself at a table and has >>>work brought to him by teachers, and during play time, he must sit with a >>>teacher, and not play. Since the 2nd incident, he’s had two > violence-free >>>days, and one day in which he had a violence-free afternoon, and in the >>>morning a kid bumped him in the nose, so he hit. Not good, but at least >>>it’s not a case of victimizing for the sake of it. He is also REALLY >>>proud of himself when he gets smileys, and loves going upstairs to pick >>>out a new toy. Parenting manuals say to not punish a child at home when >>>he’s already punished at school, (No "double jeopardy"), but we don’t > feel >>>comfortable not doing *something* when he stabs a kid with a pencil. >>>Here’s the hard part: G is a pretty good kid at home. He has different >>>problems in his different households (he spends 1/2 time at each house), >>>of course.. He refuses to take naps at his Mom’s but does with us. He >>>occasionally doesn’t sleep through the night at our house, but almost >>>never wakes up in the night at his mom’s. He did have a temper tantrum >>>recently at his mom’s that included attempting to hit her, but that’s a >>>rareity. She handled it well, and I doubt that it’ll be a regular >>>problem. >>>Oh, and did I mention that he’s extremely bright? When he was evaluated >>>for at age 3 for ADHD, he tested several years ahead in intellectual >>>development, and a year or so behind for emotional. How do you handle a >>>kid who knows what he can do, but doesn’t have the emotional maturity to >>>handle that knowledge? He’s a whiz at math (he does simple addition and >>>subtraction easily), and has the concepts of reading down, and can sound >>>out words with difficulty. We’re careful to to push him too hard. >>>He’s also an attractive kid, and is a complete charmer. Adults fall in >>>love with him instantly. Yes, I’m biased, but I’ve seen people fall all >>>over him time and time again. He gets LOTS and lots of attention from us >>>and strangers, and isn’t terribly good at not getting attention. >>>His play is ALWAYS violent role-playing…action figures hurting each >>>other, punching noises, etc. The rule at our house, is that if he wants >>>someone to play with him, he can’t play violent. We don’t "swordfight" >>>with him at all (even if no one will get hurt), and my husband no longer >>>wrestles with him. If he’s going to play violent games anyway, he can do >>>it without us. Unfortunately his obsession was probably caused by us > going >>>overboard in trying to discourage it, making a big deal out of it, etc. >>>Most frightening of all, he now says he wants to be a bad guy when he >>>grows up, so he can do violence whenever he wants. I think he’s trying to >>>"play" us with that claim, but again, I’m not sure how to handle it. We >>>told him about jail (like losing his freedoms, but more boring), and that >>>bad people generally hurt each other, which meant that he might get hurt >>>if he chose that path (but not by us! We told him
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Response:
> >2. Can you get him into a very introductory martial arts class where >they emphasize the mental and self-control aspects of martial arts as >well as the physical. > Training a violent kid in techniques of intimidation and efficient > fighting? Funny how pervasive this line of resoning is. Remember how Kip > Kinkel got his guns? His parents bought them for him. They figured that > having the guns would make the violent teen safer to be around. The Kinkels > both agree now that this was not a good idea.
We aren’t talking about GUNS here. We’re talking about martial arts. I guess you’ve never had any experience with them, but good martial arts instructors always emphasize self-control, self-defense and the ability to walk away from a situation along with the physical aspects of the training. You’ve taken a posting on one thing that you apparently know little about and made it sound like I was suggesting they go out and get weapons training for a 4 year old. Martial arts skills and guns are not in the same ballpark.
Response:
The other thing to consider is that he IS just four. Also his father had a hot temper that settled in time. If he’s still pulling stunts like assaults with edged weapons and bullying around the time of middle childhood, that could bode poorly for his future. It’s still entirely possible that like his father, his temper, control and judgement will settle down as he matures.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >: <p>Cathy, >: <br> This is such a hard situation to have, esp. for >: you being the step parent. I would like to say kudos to all of you for >: working together. As hard as it is to believe, it’s not that common! I >: think the four of you going to counseling is great. >Thanks. We need to hear things like this! We try so hard, and of course >we are all obsessing about this current problem. It’s very hard to keep >things in perspective with such a serious problem like this. >: girls like this all the time. Different reasons. I’m glad you already had >: him checked for ADHD and that doesn’t seem to be the issue here. To warn >: you tho, sometimes it is hard to diagnose in children under 5. Anyway, >I just ordered a book on ADHD. >: I think it is probably hard on him living in two separate environments. >: Children that young need stability. Since you can’t change the situation, >: best thing for him is to make sure that both homes react to him the same >: way. Punishments and rewards MUST be consistent. Whatever happens at Mom’s >: has got to be what happens at Dad’s! It is also important to be consistent >: with the schools. >He’s never known life any other way (being in the 2 environments. After >he was born, his parents lived in the same house as roommates, and were >not romantically involved. However, his parents have lived in separate >houses since he was 18 months old, and he has no memory of the time in >which both mom and dad lived with him in the SAME house. We do try VERY >hard to provide consistentsy betw houses. It *is* harder between homes and >school, though. >: I’m not sure I totally agree with this at this point. How about something >: a little less agressive like T Ball or Basketball? >He’s taking gymnastics, though, I have no idea how rigorous it is. It >happens during the day, so I haven’t seen it in action. >: <br> 3. The preschool. The Montessori school may not >: be structured enough for him. They are great for many kids as well as gifteds >: but he needs structure. On the other hand, changing schools right now may >: cause more problems for him. How willing are the teachers there to work >: with you? >Not all montessories are created alike. I think they provide enough >structure, but I have one big complaint: poor intra-teacher communication. >When I picked him up this afternoon, the teacher said he had earned one >for the afternoon, but had no idea how he did that morning (the morning >teacher hadn’t mentioned anything. G told me he had made some bad choices, >and so he didn’t get one in the morning, but there were no incident >reports, so whatever he did wasn’t so bad they felt the need to inform us >about it (and they are pretty good about that particular type of >communication). >However, the school is very, very willing to work with us. No complaints >there. >The psychologists I have worked with always recommend a strict >: positive reinforcement program. He likes the happy faces but one happy >: face a day is not enough!! >Actually, it’s two per day. One for the afternoon, and one for the >morning. >Then you said, he gets rewarded after so many >: happy faces at home. >At home, they get double duty…he can buy back his toys for them, AND he >can save them to actually buy other treats (3 for an ice cream. >These rewards are too far apart. They need to more >: immediate. >I’ll talk to the pschologist about your suggestions. >: <br> I hope this gives you some ideas to work with. Good >: luck to you all. I think "G" is lucky to have four loving parents. >Thanks Carol for your advice! >Cathy W.
Response:
Actually, all of this is part of martial arts training. (Pick the right school!) They’re not teaching self defence, they’re teaching self discipline and focus. He will not be taught anything (again, in the right school) that he can use to harm someone without being given the mental tools he needs to. I’ve researched this somewhat, and it actually is a good idea. Elsie
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >: 2. Can you get him into a very introductory martial arts class where >: they emphasize the mental and self-control aspects of martial arts as >: well as the physical. Maybe this would help him feel more powerful but >: also more in control of himself. >I’m not sure I am comfortable with this…teaching fighting, even in >self-defense is still teaching someone how to fight, and he needs no help >with this. Right now, because he doesn’t really understand the difference >between agression and self-defense (which he sees as tit-for-tat), we are >trying to teach him that’s it’s NEVER ok to hurt people, that if someone >hurts him, that he should go to the teacher. When he’s older, and if he’s >being victimized, then by all means, he should defend himself. But now, >since he’s doing the victimizing, I don’t think it’s a good idea. >However, channeling his physical energy, and working on self-control is a >good idea. Perhaps a rigorous gymnastics program, or swimming lessons >would be in order. >Cathy W.
Response:
Tell that to our resident trolls. 
wisdom, writ: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Just civility. >No offense, DA, but this is Usenet. If you want sweetness and light all >the time, watch Barney. I don’t often use profanity, but sometimes, >nothing else will do. >Kathleen >writ: >>x-no-archive: yes >>Clean up the language EVERYONE. >>Upstate NY Mom >>~Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all >>things. Love never ends.~ 1 CORINTHIANS 13:7-8 >>>You have a hell of a lot of nerve. That’s why I put a warning in the >>>subject. Aside from that, the crap you spout regularly is far more >obscene >>>than *any* four-letter word. >>>You are a sick, sick woman. I would rather deal with wacko Henrietta and >>>her ilk any day. She’s just a fool, but you are outright malicious. Seek >>>help. You need it. >>>Kathleen >>>It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and >>>doubt by saying: >>>> If you can’t speak without swearing, you have no business on a public >>>>forum. This newsgroup is read by people of all ages. Many of them >>children. >>>>Other people have religious objections to the use of the name of their >god >>>>in vain. You might think that because your obscenities are directed at >one >>>>person or another, that this excuses you. You are not excused. Shame on >>you. >>>>Take a deep breath, and go sit in the corner for an hour. >>>>>Goddamn it, Elaine, SHUT THE FUCK UP! What is WRONG with you??? The >woman >>>>>is concerned, and your solution/advice/whatever the hell you call it is >>to >>>>>tell her about a kid who killed his parents? God, you are the MEANEST >>>>>human being I’ve ever met. Your parents did a lousy job with you, lady >>>>>(and I use the word "lady" very loosely). >>>>>Kathleen >>>>>wisdom, writ: >>>>>> This is a long and difficult story. All of the adults involved seem >>like >>>>>>good, reasonable people. >>>>>> Who can help you? I dunno. You sure have your work cut out for you. >>>>>> Your story reminds me of another bright, attractive, well loved boy >>from >>>>my >>>>>>own community here in Oregon. That boy’s name is Kip Kinkel. >>>>>> His parents were a stable, married loving couple. They were both >>>>educators. >>>>>>They only had two kids, so there was plenty of time attention and >>material >>>>>>goods for everyone. >>>>>> Kip had always been enamored of anything violent. He loved guns, and >>>>would >>>>>>make a gun out of anything. He loved to play guns and wargames. He was >>>>>>interested in anything conserned with explosives, the military, war, >the >>>>>>police, bombmaking, crime. >>>>>> When Kip became an adolecent, his parents got him some guns. For >target >>>>>>practice, as a hobby, but most of all, so that the gun loving lad >could >>>>>>learn all about the safe, responsible use and discharge of firearms. >>>>>> When he was 15, this well brought up boy from a good family shot his >>>>>>parents to death. He then went to his school, and proceeded to open >fire >>>>on >>>>>>the other students in the cafeteria. >>>>>>>I am the stepmother of a 4-year-old boy who is having some problems >at >>>>>>>daycare. He’s had problems with agression all along, but mostly it >was >>>>an >>>>>>>inability to control a temper (which isn’t acceptable by any >standard, >>>>but >>>>>>>at least it’s easy to see where it’s coming from). We’ve been through >>>>>>>counseling and he’s been evaluated for ADHD (he doesn’t have it). >>We’ve >>>>>>>tried many different things to try and change his behaviour, and >>>>>>>everything works a little, but nothing works for good. We do not >>believe >>>>>>>in hitting, but it does happen on rare occasions. >>>>>>>His mom and dad split up when she was pregnant with him, and I >started >>>>>>>dating his father a month before his birth, so I’ve been around his >>>>entire >>>>>>>life, and have a fairly good relationship (could be better, of >course). >>>>I >>>>>>>also have a good relationship with his mother, as does my husband. >His >>>>>>>step dad is also a very decent guy. His birth parents have worked >hard >>>>>>>from day one to remain on good terms and to work together to raise >him. >>>>>>>BTW, his father had almost exactly the same aggression problems as a >>>>young >>>>>>>child, and eventually outgrew them. >>>>>>>His TV watching is very strictly limited–only pre-approved videos at >>our >>>>>>>house, carefully monitored TV watching at his mom’s. >>>>>>>Recently, however, he’s gotten worse. Instead of merely losing his >>>>temper >>>>>>>and lashing out, he’s started victimizing other kids. He tried to >stab >>a >>>>>>>kid with scissors a month ago, and twice last week stabbed a kid with >a >>>>>>>pencil. Fortunately there were no injuries, but we are at wit’s end. >>We >>>>>>>are back in counseling, and this time all four of his parental >figures >>>>are >>>>>>>attending (as apposed to only his birth parents). We are all reading >>the >>>>>>>same parenting books to try and work out a consistent approach. >>>>>>>After the first pencil-poking incident, Chris (the Dad) and I warned >>him >>>>>>>that if it happened again, we were going to take away all his toys, >>which >>>>>>>is what we did. Psychologist said it was important to follow through, >>and >>>>>>>didn’t feel it was an inappropriate punishment. At school, G (the >kid) >>>>>>>gets ’smileys’ for having a violence-free morning or afternoon, and >we >>>>>>>save them up to buy things (they are worth about 50 cents in real >>money), >>>>>>>and we are allowing him to "buy" back one of his toys for each smiley >>he >>>>>>>earns. However, incidents of serious violence will get his toys >>removed >>>>>>>again. At school (Montessori), he gets his freedoms removed for the >>>>>>>entire day for serious incidents, smaller units of time for lesser >>>>>>>incidents. During the time outs, he sits by himself at a table and >has >>>>>>>work brought to him by teachers, and during play time, he must sit >with >>a >>>>>>>teacher, and not play. Since the 2nd incident, he’s had two >>>>violence-free >>>>>>>days, and one day in which he had a violence-free afternoon, and in >the >>>>>>>morning a kid bumped him in the nose, so he hit. Not good, but at >>least >>>>>>>it’s not a case of victimizing for the sake of it. He is also REALLY >>>>>>>proud of himself when he gets smileys, and loves going upstairs to >pick >>>>>>>out a new toy. Parenting manuals say to not punish a child at home >>when >>>>>>>he’s already punished at school, (No "double jeopardy"), but we don’t >>>>feel >>>>>>>comfortable not doing *something* when he stabs a kid with a pencil. >>>>>>>Here’s the hard part: G is a pretty good kid at home. He has >>different >>>>>>>problems in his different households (he spends 1/2 time at each >>house), >>>>>>>of course.. He refuses to take naps at his Mom’s but does with us. >He >>>>>>>occasionally doesn’t sleep through the night at our house, but almost >>>>>>>never wakes up in the night at his mom’s. He did have a temper >tantrum >>>>>>>recently at his mom’s that included attempting to hit her, but that’s >a >>>>>>>rareity. She handled it well, and I doubt that it’ll be a regular >>>>>>>problem. >>>>>>>Oh, and did I mention that he’s extremely bright? When he was >>evaluated >>>>>>>for at age 3 for ADHD, he tested several years ahead in intellectual >>>>>>>development, and a year or so behind for emotional. How do you >handle >>a >>>>>>>kid who knows what he can do, but doesn’t have the emotional maturity >>to >>>>>>>handle that knowledge? He’s a whiz at math (he does simple addition >and >>>>>>>subtraction easily), and has the concepts of reading down, and can >>sound >>>>>>>out words with difficulty. We’re careful to to push him too hard. >>>>>>>He’s also an attractive kid, and is a complete charmer. Adults fall >in >>>>>>>love with him instantly. Yes, I’m biased, but I’ve seen people fall >>all >>>>>>>over him time and time again. He gets LOTS and lots of attention >from >>us >>>>>>>and strangers, and isn’t terribly good at not getting attention. >>>>>>>His play is ALWAYS violent role-playing…action figures hurting each >>>>>>>other, punching noises, etc. The rule at our house, is that if he >>wants >>>>>>>someone to play with him, he can’t play violent. We don’t >"swordfight" >>>>>>>with him at all (even if no one will get hurt), and my husband no >>longer >>>>>>>wrestles with him. If he’s going to play violent games anyway, he >can >>do >>>>>>>it without us. Unfortunately his obsession was probably caused by us >>>>going >>>>>>>overboard in trying to discourage it, making a big deal out of it, >etc. >>>>>>>Most frightening of all, he now says he wants to be a bad guy when he >>>>>>>grows up, so he can do violence whenever he wants. I think he’s >trying >>to >>>>>>>"play" us with that claim, but again, I’m not sure how to handle it. >We >>>>>>>told him about jail (like losing his freedoms, but more boring), and >>that >>>>>>>bad people generally hurt each other, which meant that he might get >>hurt >>>>>>>if he chose that
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Response:
: 1. Do you think the Montessori environment might provide too much : freedom for him. I understand that Montessori is built on the child’s : regulation of himself, but maybe right now that is too tough for him. : I’m not knocking Montessori, just asking if it is right for this kid at : this stage of his live. I think this one *is* fairly structured. Not as much as maybe it should be, but it’s far from being a free-for-all. (Not all Montessoris are created alike! 
However, I think moving him now would be more detrimental than keeping him there: he needs to learn to deal with his problems now. They aren’t going to go away just because he goes to a different school. And I think moving him would destabilize his situation further. Thanks! Cathy W.
Response:
: <p>Cathy, : <br> This is such a hard situation to have, esp. for : you being the step parent. I would like to say kudos to all of you for : working together. As hard as it is to believe, it’s not that common! I : think the four of you going to counseling is great. Thanks. We need to hear things like this! We try so hard, and of course we are all obsessing about this current problem. It’s very hard to keep things in perspective with such a serious problem like this. : girls like this all the time. Different reasons. I’m glad you already had : him checked for ADHD and that doesn’t seem to be the issue here. To warn : you tho, sometimes it is hard to diagnose in children under 5. Anyway, I just ordered a book on ADHD. : I think it is probably hard on him living in two separate environments. : Children that young need stability. Since you can’t change the situation, : best thing for him is to make sure that both homes react to him the same : way. Punishments and rewards MUST be consistent. Whatever happens at Mom’s : has got to be what happens at Dad’s! It is also important to be consistent : with the schools. He’s never known life any other way (being in the 2 environments. After he was born, his parents lived in the same house as roommates, and were not romantically involved. However, his parents have lived in separate houses since he was 18 months old, and he has no memory of the time in which both mom and dad lived with him in the SAME house. We do try VERY hard to provide consistentsy betw houses. It *is* harder between homes and school, though. : I’m not sure I totally agree with this at this point. How about something : a little less agressive like T Ball or Basketball? He’s taking gymnastics, though, I have no idea how rigorous it is. It happens during the day, so I haven’t seen it in action. : <br> 3. The preschool. The Montessori school may not : be structured enough for him. They are great for many kids as well as gifteds : but he needs structure. On the other hand, changing schools right now may : cause more problems for him. How willing are the teachers there to work : with you? Not all montessories are created alike. I think they provide enough structure, but I have one big complaint: poor intra-teacher communication. When I picked him up this afternoon, the teacher said he had earned one for the afternoon, but had no idea how he did that morning (the morning teacher hadn’t mentioned anything. G told me he had made some bad choices, and so he didn’t get one in the morning, but there were no incident reports, so whatever he did wasn’t so bad they felt the need to inform us about it (and they are pretty good about that particular type of communication). However, the school is very, very willing to work with us. No complaints there. The psychologists I have worked with always recommend a strict : positive reinforcement program. He likes the happy faces but one happy : face a day is not enough!! Actually, it’s two per day. One for the afternoon, and one for the morning. Then you said, he gets rewarded after so many : happy faces at home. At home, they get double duty…he can buy back his toys for them, AND he can save them to actually buy other treats (3 for an ice cream. These rewards are too far apart. They need to more : immediate. I’ll talk to the pschologist about your suggestions. : <br> I hope this gives you some ideas to work with. Good : luck to you all. I think "G" is lucky to have four loving parents. Thanks Carol for your advice! Cathy W.
Response:
: This is not the first time this family has been online about this boy and : his problem with violence. She posted after the scissors attack. At that : time, I mentioned that they were in hot water. I was also handed my hat and : asked in your kindly fashion to shut up then too. Um…I think you have my family and/or me mixed up with someone else. This *is* the first time we’ve posted about this problem, and I did NOT post after the scissors attack, which by the way, he didn’t hurt the other child (thank God!). Cathy Weeks
Response:
> If you can’t speak without swearing, you have no business on a public > forum. This newsgroup is read by people of all ages. Many of them children.
Actually, this is a Parenting group, we should all be Adults here, ’sides most kids have heard and said worse than anything we could dredge up. > Other people have religious objections to the use of the name of their god > in vain. You might think that because your obscenities are directed at one > person or another, that this excuses you. You are not excused. Shame on you. > Take a deep breath, and go sit in the corner for an hour.
I have to agree with Kathleen, you’re nuts "lady", go take a long walk off a short pier! — Paige GO LEAFS!!! proud to be Outlandish JESUS LOVES YOU. It’s everybody else that thinks you’re an ass. (to e-mail double the p and take out the "reston")
Response:
Jen: Absolutely, and I usually do. But to see her deliberately being just *so* incredibly nasty… I just can’t believe people sometimes, ya know? Kathleen wisdom, writ: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Said it before and I’ll say it again. She’s TRYING to get >you riled up. Don’t give her what she wants, just ignore her, >for all our sakes. She’s not worth your time, and the only one >suffering from you being angry is you. >Jen >Goddamn it, Elaine, SHUT THE (snipped) UP! What is WRONG with you??? >The woman >is concerned, and your solution/advice/whatever the hell you >call it is to >tell her about a kid who killed his parents? God, you are the >MEANEST >human being I’ve ever met. Your parents did a lousy job with >you, lady >(and I use the word "lady" very loosely). >Kathleen >clarity and >wisdom, writ: >> This is a long and difficult story. All of the adults involved >seem like >>good, reasonable people. >> Who can help you? I dunno. You sure have your work cut out for >you. >> Your story reminds me of another bright, attractive, well >loved boy from my >>own community here in Oregon. That boy’s name is Kip Kinkel. >> His parents were a stable, married loving couple. They were >both educators. >>They only had two kids, so there was plenty of time attention >and material >>goods for everyone. >> Kip had always been enamored of anything violent. He loved >guns, and would >>make a gun out of anything. He loved to play guns and wargames. >He was >>interested in anything conserned with explosives, the military, >war, the >>police, bombmaking, crime. >> When Kip became an adolecent, his parents got him some guns. >For target >>practice, as a hobby, but most of all, so that the gun loving >lad could >>learn all about the safe, responsible use and discharge of >firearms. >> When he was 15, this well brought up boy from a good family >shot his >>parents to death. He then went to his school, and proceeded to >open fire on >>the other students in the cafeteria. >>>I am the stepmother of a 4-year-old boy who is having some >problems at >>>daycare. He’s had problems with agression all along, but >mostly it was an >>>inability to control a temper (which isn’t acceptable by any >standard, but >>>at least it’s easy to see where it’s coming from). We’ve been >through >>>counseling and he’s been evaluated for ADHD (he doesn’t have >it). We’ve >>>tried many different things to try and change his behaviour, >and >>>everything works a little, but nothing works for good. We do >not believe >>>in hitting, but it does happen on rare occasions. >>>His mom and dad split up when she was pregnant with him, and I >started >>>dating his father a month before his birth, so I’ve been >around his entire >>>life, and have a fairly good relationship (could be better, of >course). I >>>also have a good relationship with his mother, as does my >husband. His >>>step dad is also a very decent guy. His birth parents have >worked hard >>>from day one to remain on good terms and to work together to >raise him. >>>BTW, his father had almost exactly the same aggression >problems as a young >>>child, and eventually outgrew them. >>>His TV watching is very strictly limited–only pre-approved >videos at our >>>house, carefully monitored TV watching at his mom’s. >>>Recently, however, he’s gotten worse. Instead of merely >losing his temper >>>and lashing out, he’s started victimizing other kids. He >tried to stab a >>>kid with scissors a month ago, and twice last week stabbed a >kid with a >>>pencil. Fortunately there were no injuries, but we are at >wit’s end. We >>>are back in counseling, and this time all four of his parental >figures are >>>attending (as apposed to only his birth parents). We are all >reading the >>>same parenting books to try and work out a consistent >approach. >>>After the first pencil-poking incident, Chris (the Dad) and I >warned him >>>that if it happened again, we were going to take away all his >toys, which >>>is what we did. Psychologist said it was important to follow >through, and >>>didn’t feel it was an inappropriate punishment. At school, G >(the kid) >>>gets ’smileys’ for having a violence-free morning or >afternoon, and we >>>save them up to buy things (they are worth about 50 cents in >real money), >>>and we are allowing him to "buy" back one of his toys for each >smiley he >>>earns. However, incidents of serious violence will get his >toys removed >>>again. At school (Montessori), he gets his freedoms removed >for the >>>entire day for serious incidents, smaller units of time for >lesser >>>incidents. During the time outs, he sits by himself at a >table and has >>>work brought to him by teachers, and during play time, he must >sit with a >>>teacher, and not play. Since the 2nd incident, he’s had two >violence-free >>>days, and one day in which he had a violence-free afternoon, >and in the >>>morning a kid bumped him in the nose, so he hit. Not good, >but at least >>>it’s not a case of victimizing for the sake of it. He is also >REALLY >>>proud of himself when he gets smileys, and loves going >upstairs to pick >>>out a new toy. Parenting manuals say to not punish a child at >home when >>>he’s already punished at school, (No "double jeopardy"), but >we don’t feel >>>comfortable not doing *something* when he stabs a kid with a >pencil. >>>Here’s the hard part: G is a pretty good kid at home. He has >different >>>problems in his different households (he spends 1/2 time at >each house), >>>of course.. He refuses to take naps at his Mom’s but does >with us. He >>>occasionally doesn’t sleep through the night at our house, but >almost >>>never wakes up in the night at his mom’s. He did have a >temper tantrum >>>recently at his mom’s that included attempting to hit her, but >that’s a >>>rareity. She handled it well, and I doubt that it’ll be a >regular >>>problem. >>>Oh, and did I mention that he’s extremely bright? When he was >evaluated >>>for at age 3 for ADHD, he tested several years ahead in >intellectual >>>development, and a year or so behind for emotional. How do >you handle a >>>kid who knows what he can do, but doesn’t have the emotional >maturity to >>>handle that knowledge? He’s a whiz at math (he does simple >addition and >>>subtraction easily), and has the concepts of reading down, and >can sound >>>out words with difficulty. We’re careful to to push him too >hard. >>>He’s also an attractive kid, and is a complete charmer. >Adults fall in >>>love with him instantly. Yes, I’m biased, but I’ve seen >people fall all >>>over him time and time again. He gets LOTS and lots of >attention from us >>>and strangers, and isn’t terribly good at not getting >attention. >>>His play is ALWAYS violent role-playing…action figures >hurting each >>>other, punching noises, etc. The rule at our house, is that >if he wants >>>someone to play with him, he can’t play violent. We don’t >"swordfight" >>>with him at all (even if no one will get hurt), and my husband >no longer >>>wrestles with him. If he’s going to play violent games >anyway, he can do >>>it without us. Unfortunately his obsession was probably caused >by us going >>>overboard in trying to discourage it, making a big deal out of >it, etc. >>>Most frightening of all, he now says he wants to be a bad guy >when he >>>grows up, so he can do violence whenever he wants. I think >he’s trying to >>>"play" us with that claim, but again, I’m not sure how to >handle it. We >>>told him about jail (like losing his freedoms, but more >boring), and that >>>bad people generally hurt each other, which meant that he >might get hurt >>>if he chose that path (but not by us! We told him that we love >him, but >>>that we tried to be good people, and we wouldn’t ever hurt >him.) >>>Sigh…I know this was long…but does anyone have any advice? >>>Cathy W. > "If sense were common, more people would have it." >— Me >ICQ# – 33613577 >**Spam Trap** >Accentuate the Positive to send e-mail.
"If sense were common, more people would have it." — Me ICQ# – 33613577 **Spam Trap** Accentuate the Positive to send e-mail.
Response:
Just civility. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >No offense, DA, but this is Usenet. If you want sweetness and light all >the time, watch Barney. I don’t often use profanity, but sometimes, >nothing else will do. >Kathleen >writ: >x-no-archive: yes >Clean up the language EVERYONE. >Upstate NY Mom >~Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all >things. Love never ends.~ 1 CORINTHIANS 13:7-8 >>You have a hell of a lot of nerve. That’s why I put a warning in the >>subject. Aside from that, the crap you spout regularly is far more obscene >>than *any* four-letter word. >>You are a sick, sick woman. I would rather deal with wacko Henrietta and >>her ilk any day. She’s just a fool, but you are outright malicious. Seek >>help. You need it. >>Kathleen >>It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and >>doubt by saying: >>> If you can’t speak without swearing, you have no business on a public >>>forum. This newsgroup is read by people of all ages. Many of them >children. >>>Other people have religious objections to the use of the name of their god >>>in vain. You might think that because your obscenities are directed at one >>>person or another, that this excuses you. You are not excused. Shame on >you. >>>Take a deep breath, and go sit in the corner for an hour. >>>>Goddamn it, Elaine, SHUT THE FUCK UP! What is WRONG with you??? The woman >>>>is concerned, and your solution/advice/whatever the hell you call it is >to >>>>tell her about a kid who killed his parents? God, you are the MEANEST >>>>human being I’ve ever met. Your parents did a lousy job with you, lady >>>>(and I use the word "lady" very loosely). >>>>Kathleen >>>>wisdom, writ: >>>>> This is a long and difficult story. All of the adults involved seem >like >>>>>good, reasonable people. >>>>> Who can help you? I dunno. You sure have your work cut out for you. >>>>> Your story reminds me of another bright, attractive, well loved boy >from >>>my >>>>>own community here in Oregon. That boy’s name is Kip Kinkel. >>>>> His parents were a stable, married loving couple. They were both >>>educators. >>>>>They only had two kids, so there was plenty of time attention and >material >>>>>goods for everyone. >>>>> Kip had always been enamored of anything violent. He loved guns, and >>>would >>>>>make a gun out of anything. He loved to play guns and wargames. He was >>>>>interested in anything conserned with explosives, the military, war, the >>>>>police, bombmaking, crime. >>>>> When Kip became an adolecent, his parents got him some guns. For target >>>>>practice, as a hobby, but most of all, so that the gun loving lad could >>>>>learn all about the safe, responsible use and discharge of firearms. >>>>> When he was 15, this well brought up boy from a good family shot his >>>>>parents to death. He then went to his school, and proceeded to open fire >>>on >>>>>the other students in the cafeteria. >>>>>>I am the stepmother of a 4-year-old boy who is having some problems at >>>>>>daycare. He’s had problems with agression all along, but mostly it was >>>an >>>>>>inability to control a temper (which isn’t acceptable by any standard, >>>but >>>>>>at least it’s easy to see where it’s coming from). We’ve been through >>>>>>counseling and he’s been evaluated for ADHD (he doesn’t have it). >We’ve >>>>>>tried many different things to try and change his behaviour, and >>>>>>everything works a little, but nothing works for good. We do not >believe >>>>>>in hitting, but it does happen on rare occasions. >>>>>>His mom and dad split up when she was pregnant with him, and I started >>>>>>dating his father a month before his birth, so I’ve been around his >>>entire >>>>>>life, and have a fairly good relationship (could be better, of course). >>>I >>>>>>also have a good relationship with his mother, as does my husband. His >>>>>>step dad is also a very decent guy. His birth parents have worked hard >>>>>>from day one to remain on good terms and to work together to raise him. >>>>>>BTW, his father had almost exactly the same aggression problems as a >>>young >>>>>>child, and eventually outgrew them. >>>>>>His TV watching is very strictly limited–only pre-approved videos at >our >>>>>>house, carefully monitored TV watching at his mom’s. >>>>>>Recently, however, he’s gotten worse. Instead of merely losing his >>>temper >>>>>>and lashing out, he’s started victimizing other kids. He tried to stab >a >>>>>>kid with scissors a month ago, and twice last week stabbed a kid with a >>>>>>pencil. Fortunately there were no injuries, but we are at wit’s end. >We >>>>>>are back in counseling, and this time all four of his parental figures >>>are >>>>>>attending (as apposed to only his birth parents). We are all reading >the >>>>>>same parenting books to try and work out a consistent approach. >>>>>>After the first pencil-poking incident, Chris (the Dad) and I warned >him >>>>>>that if it happened again, we were going to take away all his toys, >which >>>>>>is what we did. Psychologist said it was important to follow through, >and >>>>>>didn’t feel it was an inappropriate punishment. At school, G (the kid) >>>>>>gets ’smileys’ for having a violence-free morning or afternoon, and we >>>>>>save them up to buy things (they are worth about 50 cents in real >money), >>>>>>and we are allowing him to "buy" back one of his toys for each smiley >he >>>>>>earns. However, incidents of serious violence will get his toys >removed >>>>>>again. At school (Montessori), he gets his freedoms removed for the >>>>>>entire day for serious incidents, smaller units of time for lesser >>>>>>incidents. During the time outs, he sits by himself at a table and has >>>>>>work brought to him by teachers, and during play time, he must sit with >a >>>>>>teacher, and not play. Since the 2nd incident, he’s had two >>>violence-free >>>>>>days, and one day in which he had a violence-free afternoon, and in the >>>>>>morning a kid bumped him in the nose, so he hit. Not good, but at >least >>>>>>it’s not a case of victimizing for the sake of it. He is also REALLY >>>>>>proud of himself when he gets smileys, and loves going upstairs to pick >>>>>>out a new toy. Parenting manuals say to not punish a child at home >when >>>>>>he’s already punished at school, (No "double jeopardy"), but we don’t >>>feel >>>>>>comfortable not doing *something* when he stabs a kid with a pencil. >>>>>>Here’s the hard part: G is a pretty good kid at home. He has >different >>>>>>problems in his different households (he spends 1/2 time at each >house), >>>>>>of course.. He refuses to take naps at his Mom’s but does with us. He >>>>>>occasionally doesn’t sleep through the night at our house, but almost >>>>>>never wakes up in the night at his mom’s. He did have a temper tantrum >>>>>>recently at his mom’s that included attempting to hit her, but that’s a >>>>>>rareity. She handled it well, and I doubt that it’ll be a regular >>>>>>problem. >>>>>>Oh, and did I mention that he’s extremely bright? When he was >evaluated >>>>>>for at age 3 for ADHD, he tested several years ahead in intellectual >>>>>>development, and a year or so behind for emotional. How do you handle >a >>>>>>kid who knows what he can do, but doesn’t have the emotional maturity >to >>>>>>handle that knowledge? He’s a whiz at math (he does simple addition and >>>>>>subtraction easily), and has the concepts of reading down, and can >sound >>>>>>out words with difficulty. We’re careful to to push him too hard. >>>>>>He’s also an attractive kid, and is a complete charmer. Adults fall in >>>>>>love with him instantly. Yes, I’m biased, but I’ve seen people fall >all >>>>>>over him time and time again. He gets LOTS and lots of attention from >us >>>>>>and strangers, and isn’t terribly good at not getting attention. >>>>>>His play is ALWAYS violent role-playing…action figures hurting each >>>>>>other, punching noises, etc. The rule at our house, is that if he >wants >>>>>>someone to play with him, he can’t play violent. We don’t "swordfight" >>>>>>with him at all (even if no one will get hurt), and my husband no >longer >>>>>>wrestles with him. If he’s going to play violent games anyway, he can >do >>>>>>it without us. Unfortunately his obsession was probably caused by us >>>going >>>>>>overboard in trying to discourage it, making a big deal out of it, etc. >>>>>>Most frightening of all, he now says he wants to be a bad guy when he >>>>>>grows up, so he can do violence whenever he wants. I think he’s trying >to >>>>>>"play" us with that claim, but again, I’m not sure how to handle it. We >>>>>>told him about jail (like losing his freedoms, but more boring), and >that >>>>>>bad people generally hurt each other, which meant that he might get >hurt >>>>>>if he chose that path (but not by us! We told him that we love him, but >>>>>>that we tried to be good people, and we wouldn’t ever hurt him.) >>>>>>Sigh…I know this was long…but does anyone have any advice? >>>>>>Cathy W. >>>> "If sense were common, more people would have it." >>>>— Me >>>>ICQ# – 33613577 >>>>**Spam Trap**
… read more »
Response:
Said it before and I’ll say it again. She’s TRYING to get you riled up. Don’t give her what she wants, just ignore her, for all our sakes. She’s not worth your time, and the only one suffering from you being angry is you. Jen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Goddamn it, Elaine, SHUT THE FUCK UP! What is WRONG with you??? The woman >is concerned, and your solution/advice/whatever the hell you call it is to >tell her about a kid who killed his parents? God, you are the MEANEST >human being I’ve ever met. Your parents did a lousy job with you, lady >(and I use the word "lady" very loosely). >Kathleen clarity and >wisdom, writ: > This is a long and difficult story. All of the adults involved seem like >good, reasonable people. > Who can help you? I dunno. You sure have your work cut out for you. > Your story reminds me of another bright, attractive, well loved boy from my >own community here in Oregon. That boy’s name is Kip Kinkel. > His parents were a stable, married loving couple. They were both educators. >They only had two kids, so there was plenty of time attention and material >goods for everyone. > Kip had always been enamored of anything violent. He loved guns, and would >make a gun out of anything. He loved to play guns and wargames. He was >interested in anything conserned with explosives, the military, war, the >police, bombmaking, crime. > When Kip became an adolecent, his parents got him some guns. For target >practice, as a hobby, but most of all, so that the gun loving lad could >learn all about the safe, responsible use and discharge of firearms. > When he was 15, this well brought up boy from a good family shot his >parents to death. He then went to his school, and proceeded to open fire on >the other students in the cafeteria. >>I am the stepmother of a 4-year-old boy who is having some problems at >>daycare. He’s had problems with agression all along, but mostly it was an >>inability to control a temper (which isn’t acceptable by any standard, but >>at least it’s easy to see where it’s coming from). We’ve been through >>counseling and he’s been evaluated for ADHD (he doesn’t have it). We’ve >>tried many different things to try and change his behaviour, and >>everything works a little, but nothing works for good. We do not believe >>in hitting, but it does happen on rare occasions. >>His mom and dad split up when she was pregnant with him, and I started >>dating his father a month before his birth, so I’ve been around his entire >>life, and have a fairly good relationship (could be better, of course). I >>also have a good relationship with his mother, as does my husband. His >>step dad is also a very decent guy. His birth parents have worked hard >>from day one to remain on good terms and to work together to raise him. >>BTW, his father had almost exactly the same aggression problems as a young >>child, and eventually outgrew them. >>His TV watching is very strictly limited–only pre-approved videos at our >>house, carefully monitored TV watching at his mom’s. >>Recently, however, he’s gotten worse. Instead of merely losing his temper >>and lashing out, he’s started victimizing other kids. He tried to stab a >>kid with scissors a month ago, and twice last week stabbed a kid with a >>pencil. Fortunately there were no injuries, but we are at wit’s end. We >>are back in counseling, and this time all four of his parental figures are >>attending (as apposed to only his birth parents). We are all reading the >>same parenting books to try and work out a consistent approach. >>After the first pencil-poking incident, Chris (the Dad) and I warned him >>that if it happened again, we were going to take away all his toys, which >>is what we did. Psychologist said it was important to follow through, and >>didn’t feel it was an inappropriate punishment. At school, G (the kid) >>gets ’smileys’ for having a violence-free morning or afternoon, and we >>save them up to buy things (they are worth about 50 cents in real money), >>and we are allowing him to "buy" back one of his toys for each smiley he >>earns. However, incidents of serious violence will get his toys removed >>again. At school (Montessori), he gets his freedoms removed for the >>entire day for serious incidents, smaller units of time for lesser >>incidents. During the time outs, he sits by himself at a table and has >>work brought to him by teachers, and during play time, he must sit with a >>teacher, and not play. Since the 2nd incident, he’s had two violence-free >>days, and one day in which he had a violence-free afternoon, and in the >>morning a kid bumped him in the nose, so he hit. Not good, but at least >>it’s not a case of victimizing for the sake of it. He is also REALLY >>proud of himself when he gets smileys, and loves going upstairs to pick >>out a new toy. Parenting manuals say to not punish a child at home when >>he’s already punished at school, (No "double jeopardy"), but we don’t feel >>comfortable not doing *something* when he stabs a kid with a pencil. >>Here’s the hard part: G is a pretty good kid at home. He has different >>problems in his different households (he spends 1/2 time at each house), >>of course.. He refuses to take naps at his Mom’s but does with us. He >>occasionally doesn’t sleep through the night at our house, but almost >>never wakes up in the night at his mom’s. He did have a temper tantrum >>recently at his mom’s that included attempting to hit her, but that’s a >>rareity. She handled it well, and I doubt that it’ll be a regular >>problem. >>Oh, and did I mention that he’s extremely bright? When he was evaluated >>for at age 3 for ADHD, he tested several years ahead in intellectual >>development, and a year or so behind for emotional. How do you handle a >>kid who knows what he can do, but doesn’t have the emotional maturity to >>handle that knowledge? He’s a whiz at math (he does simple addition and >>subtraction easily), and has the concepts of reading down, and can sound >>out words with difficulty. We’re careful to to push him too hard. >>He’s also an attractive kid, and is a complete charmer. Adults fall in >>love with him instantly. Yes, I’m biased, but I’ve seen people fall all >>over him time and time again. He gets LOTS and lots of attention from us >>and strangers, and isn’t terribly good at not getting attention. >>His play is ALWAYS violent role-playing…action figures hurting each >>other, punching noises, etc. The rule at our house, is that if he wants >>someone to play with him, he can’t play violent. We don’t "swordfight" >>with him at all (even if no one will get hurt), and my husband no longer >>wrestles with him. If he’s going to play violent games anyway, he can do >>it without us. Unfortunately his obsession was probably caused by us going >>overboard in trying to discourage it, making a big deal out of it, etc. >>Most frightening of all, he now says he wants to be a bad guy when he >>grows up, so he can do violence whenever he wants. I think he’s trying to >>"play" us with that claim, but again, I’m not sure how to handle it. We >>told him about jail (like losing his freedoms, but more boring), and that >>bad people generally hurt each other, which meant that he might get hurt >>if he chose that path (but not by us! We told him that we love him, but >>that we tried to be good people, and we wouldn’t ever hurt him.) >>Sigh…I know this was long…but does anyone have any advice? >>Cathy W. > "If sense were common, more people would have it." >— Me >ICQ# – 33613577 >**Spam Trap** >Accentuate the Positive to send e-mail.
Response:
Sometimes non curse words can be even as hurtful as profanity. You should have excused yourself from this newsgroup after you suggested that the solution to an autistic boy getting his haircut or tolerating the vacuum was to kill him. And Now, you’re advocating such a non violent stand?! Elaine, please let us know which of your personalities will be posting before we have to stomach through one of your replies. Leslie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > If you can’t speak without swearing, you have no business on a public > forum. This newsgroup is read by people of all ages. Many of them children. > Other people have religious objections to the use of the name of their god > in vain. You might think that because your obscenities are directed at one > person or another, that this excuses you. You are not excused. Shame on you. > Take a deep breath, and go sit in the corner for an hour. >Goddamn it, Elaine, SHUT THE FUCK UP! What is WRONG with you??? The woman >is concerned, and your solution/advice/whatever the hell you call it is to >tell her about a kid who killed his parents? God, you are the MEANEST >human being I’ve ever met. Your parents did a lousy job with you, lady >(and I use the word "lady" very loosely). >Kathleen >wisdom, writ: >> This is a long and difficult story. All of the adults involved seem like >>good, reasonable people. >> Who can help you? I dunno. You sure have your work cut out for you. >> Your story reminds me of another bright, attractive, well loved boy from > my >>own community here in Oregon. That boy’s name is Kip Kinkel. >> His parents were a stable, married loving couple. They were both > educators. >>They only had two kids, so there was plenty of time attention and material >>goods for everyone. >> Kip had always been enamored of anything violent. He loved guns, and > would >>make a gun out of anything. He loved to play guns and wargames. He was >>interested in anything conserned with explosives, the military, war, the >>police, bombmaking, crime. >> When Kip became an adolecent, his parents got him some guns. For target >>practice, as a hobby, but most of all, so that the gun loving lad could >>learn all about the safe, responsible use and discharge of firearms. >> When he was 15, this well brought up boy from a good family shot his >>parents to death. He then went to his school, and proceeded to open fire > on >>the other students in the cafeteria. >>>I am the stepmother of a 4-year-old boy who is having some problems at >>>daycare. He’s had problems with agression all along, but mostly it was > an >>>inability to control a temper (which isn’t acceptable by any standard, > but >>>at least it’s easy to see where it’s coming from). We’ve been through >>>counseling and he’s been evaluated for ADHD (he doesn’t have it). We’ve >>>tried many different things to try and change his behaviour, and >>>everything works a little, but nothing works for good. We do not believe >>>in hitting, but it does happen on rare occasions. >>>His mom and dad split up when she was pregnant with him, and I started >>>dating his father a month before his birth, so I’ve been around his > entire >>>life, and have a fairly good relationship (could be better, of course). > I >>>also have a good relationship with his mother, as does my husband. His >>>step dad is also a very decent guy. His birth parents have worked hard >>>from day one to remain on good terms and to work together to raise him. >>>BTW, his father had almost exactly the same aggression problems as a > young >>>child, and eventually outgrew them. >>>His TV watching is very strictly limited–only pre-approved videos at our >>>house, carefully monitored TV watching at his mom’s. >>>Recently, however, he’s gotten worse. Instead of merely losing his > temper >>>and lashing out, he’s started victimizing other kids. He tried to stab a >>>kid with scissors a month ago, and twice last week stabbed a kid with a >>>pencil. Fortunately there were no injuries, but we are at wit’s end. We >>>are back in counseling, and this time all four of his parental figures > are >>>attending (as apposed to only his birth parents). We are all reading the >>>same parenting books to try and work out a consistent approach. >>>After the first pencil-poking incident, Chris (the Dad) and I warned him >>>that if it happened again, we were going to take away all his toys, which >>>is what we did. Psychologist said it was important to follow through, and >>>didn’t feel it was an inappropriate punishment. At school, G (the kid) >>>gets ’smileys’ for having a violence-free morning or afternoon, and we >>>save them up to buy things (they are worth about 50 cents in real money), >>>and we are allowing him to "buy" back one of his toys for each smiley he >>>earns. However, incidents of serious violence will get his toys removed >>>again. At school (Montessori), he gets his freedoms removed for the >>>entire day for serious incidents, smaller units of time for lesser >>>incidents. During the time outs, he sits by himself at a table and has >>>work brought to him by teachers, and during play time, he must sit with a >>>teacher, and not play. Since the 2nd incident, he’s had two > violence-free >>>days, and one day in which he had a violence-free afternoon, and in the >>>morning a kid bumped him in the nose, so he hit. Not good, but at least >>>it’s not a case of victimizing for the sake of it. He is also REALLY >>>proud of himself when he gets smileys, and loves going upstairs to pick >>>out a new toy. Parenting manuals say to not punish a child at home when >>>he’s already punished at school, (No "double jeopardy"), but we don’t > feel >>>comfortable not doing *something* when he stabs a kid with a pencil. >>>Here’s the hard part: G is a pretty good kid at home. He has different >>>problems in his different households (he spends 1/2 time at each house), >>>of course.. He refuses to take naps at his Mom’s but does with us. He >>>occasionally doesn’t sleep through the night at our house, but almost >>>never wakes up in the night at his mom’s. He did have a temper tantrum >>>recently at his mom’s that included attempting to hit her, but that’s a >>>rareity. She handled it well, and I doubt that it’ll be a regular >>>problem. >>>Oh, and did I mention that he’s extremely bright? When he was evaluated >>>for at age 3 for ADHD, he tested several years ahead in intellectual >>>development, and a year or so behind for emotional. How do you handle a >>>kid who knows what he can do, but doesn’t have the emotional maturity to >>>handle that knowledge? He’s a whiz at math (he does simple addition and >>>subtraction easily), and has the concepts of reading down, and can sound >>>out words with difficulty. We’re careful to to push him too hard. >>>He’s also an attractive kid, and is a complete charmer. Adults fall in >>>love with him instantly. Yes, I’m biased, but I’ve seen people fall all >>>over him time and time again. He gets LOTS and lots of attention from us >>>and strangers, and isn’t terribly good at not getting attention. >>>His play is ALWAYS violent role-playing…action figures hurting each >>>other, punching noises, etc. The rule at our house, is that if he wants >>>someone to play with him, he can’t play violent. We don’t "swordfight" >>>with him at all (even if no one will get hurt), and my husband no longer >>>wrestles with him. If he’s going to play violent games anyway, he can do >>>it without us. Unfortunately his obsession was probably caused by us > going >>>overboard in trying to discourage it, making a big deal out of it, etc. >>>Most frightening of all, he now says he wants to be a bad guy when he >>>grows up, so he can do violence whenever he wants. I think he’s trying to >>>"play" us with that claim, but again, I’m not sure how to handle it. We >>>told him about jail (like losing his freedoms, but more boring), and that >>>bad people generally hurt each other, which meant that he might get hurt >>>if he chose that path (but not by us! We told him that we love him, but >>>that we tried to be good people, and we wouldn’t ever hurt him.) >>>Sigh…I know this was long…but does anyone have any advice? >>>Cathy W. > "If sense were common, more people would have it." >— Me >ICQ# – 33613577 >**Spam Trap** >Accentuate the Positive to send e-mail.
Response:
No offense, DA, but this is Usenet. If you want sweetness and light all the time, watch Barney. I don’t often use profanity, but sometimes, nothing else will do. Kathleen writ: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->x-no-archive: yes >Clean up the language EVERYONE. >Upstate NY Mom >~Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all >things. Love never ends.~ 1 CORINTHIANS 13:7-8 >You have a hell of a lot of nerve. That’s why I put a warning in the >subject. Aside from that, the crap you spout regularly is far more obscene >than *any* four-letter word. >You are a sick, sick woman. I would rather deal with wacko Henrietta and >her ilk any day. She’s just a fool, but you are outright malicious. Seek >help. You need it. >Kathleen >It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and >doubt by saying: >> If you can’t speak without swearing, you have no business on a public >>forum. This newsgroup is read by people of all ages. Many of them >children. >>Other people have religious objections to the use of the name of their god >>in vain. You might think that because your obscenities are directed at one >>person or another, that this excuses you. You are not excused. Shame on >you. >>Take a deep breath, and go sit in the corner for an hour. >>>Goddamn it, Elaine, SHUT THE FUCK UP! What is WRONG with you??? The woman >>>is concerned, and your solution/advice/whatever the hell you call it is >to >>>tell her about a kid who killed his parents? God, you are the MEANEST >>>human being I’ve ever met. Your parents did a lousy job with you, lady >>>(and I use the word "lady" very loosely). >>>Kathleen >>>wisdom, writ: >>>> This is a long and difficult story. All of the adults involved seem >like >>>>good, reasonable people. >>>> Who can help you? I dunno. You sure have your work cut out for you. >>>> Your story reminds me of another bright, attractive, well loved boy >from >>my >>>>own community here in Oregon. That boy’s name is Kip Kinkel. >>>> His parents were a stable, married loving couple. They were both >>educators. >>>>They only had two kids, so there was plenty of time attention and >material >>>>goods for everyone. >>>> Kip had always been enamored of anything violent. He loved guns, and >>would >>>>make a gun out of anything. He loved to play guns and wargames. He was >>>>interested in anything conserned with explosives, the military, war, the >>>>police, bombmaking, crime. >>>> When Kip became an adolecent, his parents got him some guns. For target >>>>practice, as a hobby, but most of all, so that the gun loving lad could >>>>learn all about the safe, responsible use and discharge of firearms. >>>> When he was 15, this well brought up boy from a good family shot his >>>>parents to death. He then went to his school, and proceeded to open fire >>on >>>>the other students in the cafeteria. >>>>>I am the stepmother of a 4-year-old boy who is having some problems at >>>>>daycare. He’s had problems with agression all along, but mostly it was >>an >>>>>inability to control a temper (which isn’t acceptable by any standard, >>but >>>>>at least it’s easy to see where it’s coming from). We’ve been through >>>>>counseling and he’s been evaluated for ADHD (he doesn’t have it). >We’ve >>>>>tried many different things to try and change his behaviour, and >>>>>everything works a little, but nothing works for good. We do not >believe >>>>>in hitting, but it does happen on rare occasions. >>>>>His mom and dad split up when she was pregnant with him, and I started >>>>>dating his father a month before his birth, so I’ve been around his >>entire >>>>>life, and have a fairly good relationship (could be better, of course). >>I >>>>>also have a good relationship with his mother, as does my husband. His >>>>>step dad is also a very decent guy. His birth parents have worked hard >>>>>from day one to remain on good terms and to work together to raise him. >>>>>BTW, his father had almost exactly the same aggression problems as a >>young >>>>>child, and eventually outgrew them. >>>>>His TV watching is very strictly limited–only pre-approved videos at >our >>>>>house, carefully monitored TV watching at his mom’s. >>>>>Recently, however, he’s gotten worse. Instead of merely losing his >>temper >>>>>and lashing out, he’s started victimizing other kids. He tried to stab >a >>>>>kid with scissors a month ago, and twice last week stabbed a kid with a >>>>>pencil. Fortunately there were no injuries, but we are at wit’s end. >We >>>>>are back in counseling, and this time all four of his parental figures >>are >>>>>attending (as apposed to only his birth parents). We are all reading >the >>>>>same parenting books to try and work out a consistent approach. >>>>>After the first pencil-poking incident, Chris (the Dad) and I warned >him >>>>>that if it happened again, we were going to take away all his toys, >which >>>>>is what we did. Psychologist said it was important to follow through, >and >>>>>didn’t feel it was an inappropriate punishment. At school, G (the kid) >>>>>gets ’smileys’ for having a violence-free morning or afternoon, and we >>>>>save them up to buy things (they are worth about 50 cents in real >money), >>>>>and we are allowing him to "buy" back one of his toys for each smiley >he >>>>>earns. However, incidents of serious violence will get his toys >removed >>>>>again. At school (Montessori), he gets his freedoms removed for the >>>>>entire day for serious incidents, smaller units of time for lesser >>>>>incidents. During the time outs, he sits by himself at a table and has >>>>>work brought to him by teachers, and during play time, he must sit with >a >>>>>teacher, and not play. Since the 2nd incident, he’s had two >>violence-free >>>>>days, and one day in which he had a violence-free afternoon, and in the >>>>>morning a kid bumped him in the nose, so he hit. Not good, but at >least >>>>>it’s not a case of victimizing for the sake of it. He is also REALLY >>>>>proud of himself when he gets smileys, and loves going upstairs to pick >>>>>out a new toy. Parenting manuals say to not punish a child at home >when >>>>>he’s already punished at school, (No "double jeopardy"), but we don’t >>feel >>>>>comfortable not doing *something* when he stabs a kid with a pencil. >>>>>Here’s the hard part: G is a pretty good kid at home. He has >different >>>>>problems in his different households (he spends 1/2 time at each >house), >>>>>of course.. He refuses to take naps at his Mom’s but does with us. He >>>>>occasionally doesn’t sleep through the night at our house, but almost >>>>>never wakes up in the night at his mom’s. He did have a temper tantrum >>>>>recently at his mom’s that included attempting to hit her, but that’s a >>>>>rareity. She handled it well, and I doubt that it’ll be a regular >>>>>problem. >>>>>Oh, and did I mention that he’s extremely bright? When he was >evaluated >>>>>for at age 3 for ADHD, he tested several years ahead in intellectual >>>>>development, and a year or so behind for emotional. How do you handle >a >>>>>kid who knows what he can do, but doesn’t have the emotional maturity >to >>>>>handle that knowledge? He’s a whiz at math (he does simple addition and >>>>>subtraction easily), and has the concepts of reading down, and can >sound >>>>>out words with difficulty. We’re careful to to push him too hard. >>>>>He’s also an attractive kid, and is a complete charmer. Adults fall in >>>>>love with him instantly. Yes, I’m biased, but I’ve seen people fall >all >>>>>over him time and time again. He gets LOTS and lots of attention from >us >>>>>and strangers, and isn’t terribly good at not getting attention. >>>>>His play is ALWAYS violent role-playing…action figures hurting each >>>>>other, punching noises, etc. The rule at our house, is that if he >wants >>>>>someone to play with him, he can’t play violent. We don’t "swordfight" >>>>>with him at all (even if no one will get hurt), and my husband no >longer >>>>>wrestles with him. If he’s going to play violent games anyway, he can >do >>>>>it without us. Unfortunately his obsession was probably caused by us >>going >>>>>overboard in trying to discourage it, making a big deal out of it, etc. >>>>>Most frightening of all, he now says he wants to be a bad guy when he >>>>>grows up, so he can do violence whenever he wants. I think he’s trying >to >>>>>"play" us with that claim, but again, I’m not sure how to handle it. We >>>>>told him about jail (like losing his freedoms, but more boring), and >that >>>>>bad people generally hurt each other, which meant that he might get >hurt >>>>>if he chose that path (but not by us! We told him that we love him, but >>>>>that we tried to be good people, and we wouldn’t ever hurt him.) >>>>>Sigh…I know this was long…but does anyone have any advice? >>>>>Cathy W. >>> "If sense were common, more people would have it." >>>— Me >>>ICQ# – 33613577 >>>**Spam Trap** >>>Accentuate the Positive to send e-mail. > "If sense were common, more people would have it." >— Me >ICQ# – 33613577 >**Spam Trap** >Accentuate the Positive to send e-mail.
"If sense were common, more people would have it." — Me ICQ# – 33613577
… read more »
Response:
;) geeze, I guess this subject got your attention… So the real question is, you’re saying that it’s cruel to offer a warning about the dangers of mishandling a violent boy? In fact, more cruel to recount a tale of what NOT to do, as opposed to saying nothing to them? This is not the first time this family has been online about this boy and his problem with violence. She posted after the scissors attack. At that time, I mentioned that they were in hot water. I was also handed my hat and asked in your kindly fashion to shut up then too. Please note that the very next message about how to cope with this boy included teaching him karate! Geeze, why don’t they just cut to the chase, and buy him a howitzer? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >You have a hell of a lot of nerve. That’s why I put a warning in the >subject. Aside from that, the crap you spout regularly is far more obscene >than *any* four-letter word. >You are a sick, sick woman. I would rather deal with wacko Henrietta and >her ilk any day. She’s just a fool, but you are outright malicious. Seek >help. You need it. >Kathleen >It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and >doubt by saying: > If you can’t speak without swearing, you have no business on a public >forum. This newsgroup is read by people of all ages. Many of them children. >Other people have religious objections to the use of the name of their god >in vain. You might think that because your obscenities are directed at one >person or another, that this excuses you. You are not excused. Shame on you. >Take a deep breath, and go sit in the corner for an hour. >>Goddamn it, Elaine, SHUT THE FUCK UP! What is WRONG with you??? The woman >>is concerned, and your solution/advice/whatever the hell you call it is to >>tell her about a kid who killed his parents? God, you are the MEANEST >>human being I’ve ever met. Your parents did a lousy job with you, lady >>(and I use the word "lady" very loosely). >>Kathleen >>wisdom, writ: >>> This is a long and difficult story. All of the adults involved seem like >>>good, reasonable people. >>> Who can help you? I dunno. You sure have your work cut out for you. >>> Your story reminds me of another bright, attractive, well loved boy from >my >>>own community here in Oregon. That boy’s name is Kip Kinkel. >>> His parents were a stable, married loving couple. They were both >educators. >>>They only had two kids, so there was plenty of time attention and material >>>goods for everyone. >>> Kip had always been enamored of anything violent. He loved guns, and >would >>>make a gun out of anything. He loved to play guns and wargames. He was >>>interested in anything conserned with explosives, the military, war, the >>>police, bombmaking, crime. >>> When Kip became an adolecent, his parents got him some guns. For target >>>practice, as a hobby, but most of all, so that the gun loving lad could >>>learn all about the safe, responsible use and discharge of firearms. >>> When he was 15, this well brought up boy from a good family shot his >>>parents to death. He then went to his school, and proceeded to open fire >on >>>the other students in the cafeteria. >>>>I am the stepmother of a 4-year-old boy who is having some problems at >>>>daycare. He’s had problems with agression all along, but mostly it was >an >>>>inability to control a temper (which isn’t acceptable by any standard, >but >>>>at least it’s easy to see where it’s coming from). We’ve been through >>>>counseling and he’s been evaluated for ADHD (he doesn’t have it). We’ve >>>>tried many different things to try and change his behaviour, and >>>>everything works a little, but nothing works for good. We do not believe >>>>in hitting, but it does happen on rare occasions. >>>>His mom and dad split up when she was pregnant with him, and I started >>>>dating his father a month before his birth, so I’ve been around his >entire >>>>life, and have a fairly good relationship (could be better, of course). >I >>>>also have a good relationship with his mother, as does my husband. His >>>>step dad is also a very decent guy. His birth parents have worked hard >>>>from day one to remain on good terms and to work together to raise him. >>>>BTW, his father had almost exactly the same aggression problems as a >young >>>>child, and eventually outgrew them. >>>>His TV watching is very strictly limited–only pre-approved videos at our >>>>house, carefully monitored TV watching at his mom’s. >>>>Recently, however, he’s gotten worse. Instead of merely losing his >temper >>>>and lashing out, he’s started victimizing other kids. He tried to stab a >>>>kid with scissors a month ago, and twice last week stabbed a kid with a >>>>pencil. Fortunately there were no injuries, but we are at wit’s end. We >>>>are back in counseling, and this time all four of his parental figures >are >>>>attending (as apposed to only his birth parents). We are all reading the >>>>same parenting books to try and work out a consistent approach. >>>>After the first pencil-poking incident, Chris (the Dad) and I warned him >>>>that if it happened again, we were going to take away all his toys, which >>>>is what we did. Psychologist said it was important to follow through, and >>>>didn’t feel it was an inappropriate punishment. At school, G (the kid) >>>>gets ’smileys’ for having a violence-free morning or afternoon, and we >>>>save them up to buy things (they are worth about 50 cents in real money), >>>>and we are allowing him to "buy" back one of his toys for each smiley he >>>>earns. However, incidents of serious violence will get his toys removed >>>>again. At school (Montessori), he gets his freedoms removed for the >>>>entire day for serious incidents, smaller units of time for lesser >>>>incidents. During the time outs, he sits by himself at a table and has >>>>work brought to him by teachers, and during play time, he must sit with a >>>>teacher, and not play. Since the 2nd incident, he’s had two >violence-free >>>>days, and one day in which he had a violence-free afternoon, and in the >>>>morning a kid bumped him in the nose, so he hit. Not good, but at least >>>>it’s not a case of victimizing for the sake of it. He is also REALLY >>>>proud of himself when he gets smileys, and loves going upstairs to pick >>>>out a new toy. Parenting manuals say to not punish a child at home when >>>>he’s already punished at school, (No "double jeopardy"), but we don’t >feel >>>>comfortable not doing *something* when he stabs a kid with a pencil. >>>>Here’s the hard part: G is a pretty good kid at home. He has different >>>>problems in his different households (he spends 1/2 time at each house), >>>>of course.. He refuses to take naps at his Mom’s but does with us. He >>>>occasionally doesn’t sleep through the night at our house, but almost >>>>never wakes up in the night at his mom’s. He did have a temper tantrum >>>>recently at his mom’s that included attempting to hit her, but that’s a >>>>rareity. She handled it well, and I doubt that it’ll be a regular >>>>problem. >>>>Oh, and did I mention that he’s extremely bright? When he was evaluated >>>>for at age 3 for ADHD, he tested several years ahead in intellectual >>>>development, and a year or so behind for emotional. How do you handle a >>>>kid who knows what he can do, but doesn’t have the emotional maturity to >>>>handle that knowledge? He’s a whiz at math (he does simple addition and >>>>subtraction easily), and has the concepts of reading down, and can sound >>>>out words with difficulty. We’re careful to to push him too hard. >>>>He’s also an attractive kid, and is a complete charmer. Adults fall in >>>>love with him instantly. Yes, I’m biased, but I’ve seen people fall all >>>>over him time and time again. He gets LOTS and lots of attention from us >>>>and strangers, and isn’t terribly good at not getting attention. >>>>His play is ALWAYS violent role-playing…action figures hurting each >>>>other, punching noises, etc. The rule at our house, is that if he wants >>>>someone to play with him, he can’t play violent. We don’t "swordfight" >>>>with him at all (even if no one will get hurt), and my husband no longer >>>>wrestles with him. If he’s going to play violent games anyway, he can do >>>>it without us. Unfortunately his obsession was probably caused by us >going >>>>overboard in trying to discourage it, making a big deal out of it, etc. >>>>Most frightening of all, he now says he wants to be a bad guy when he >>>>grows up, so he can do violence whenever he wants. I think he’s trying to >>>>"play" us with that claim, but again, I’m not sure how to handle it. We >>>>told him about jail (like losing his freedoms, but more boring), and that >>>>bad people generally hurt each other, which meant that he might get hurt >>>>if he chose that path (but not by us! We told him that we love him, but >>>>that we tried to be good people, and we wouldn’t ever hurt him.) >>>>Sigh…I know this was long…but does anyone have any advice? >>>>Cathy W. >> "If sense were common, more people would have it." >>— Me >>ICQ# – 33613577 >>**Spam Trap** >>Accentuate the Positive to send e-mail. > "If sense were common, more people would have it." >— Me >ICQ# – 33613577 >**Spam Trap** >Accentuate the Positive to send e-mail.
Response:
>: 2. Can you get him into a very introductory martial arts class where >: they emphasize the mental and self-control aspects of martial arts as >: well as the physical. Maybe this would help him feel more powerful but >: also more in control of himself. >I’m not sure I am comfortable with this…teaching fighting, even in >self-defense is still teaching someone how to fight, and he needs no help >with this.
Yes, that’s true. The last thing he needs is to have his ego boosted by the study of intimidation and fighting. Bet he’d be a natural though…
Response:
You have a hell of a lot of nerve. That’s why I put a warning in the subject. Aside from that, the crap you spout regularly is far more obscene than *any* four-letter word. You are a sick, sick woman. I would rather deal with wacko Henrietta and her ilk any day. She’s just a fool, but you are outright malicious. Seek help. You need it. Kathleen It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and doubt by saying: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If you can’t speak without swearing, you have no business on a public >forum. This newsgroup is read by people of all ages. Many of them children. >Other people have religious objections to the use of the name of their god >in vain. You might think that because your obscenities are directed at one >person or another, that this excuses you. You are not excused. Shame on you. >Take a deep breath, and go sit in the corner for an hour. >Goddamn it, Elaine, SHUT THE FUCK UP! What is WRONG with you??? The woman >is concerned, and your solution/advice/whatever the hell you call it is to >tell her about a kid who killed his parents? God, you are the MEANEST >human being I’ve ever met. Your parents did a lousy job with you, lady >(and I use the word "lady" very loosely). >Kathleen >wisdom, writ: >> This is a long and difficult story. All of the adults involved seem like >>good, reasonable people. >> Who can help you? I dunno. You sure have your work cut out for you. >> Your story reminds me of another bright, attractive, well loved boy from >my >>own community here in Oregon. That boy’s name is Kip Kinkel. >> His parents were a stable, married loving couple. They were both >educators. >>They only had two kids, so there was plenty of time attention and material >>goods for everyone. >> Kip had always been enamored of anything violent. He loved guns, and >would >>make a gun out of anything. He loved to play guns and wargames. He was >>interested in anything conserned with explosives, the military, war, the >>police, bombmaking, crime. >> When Kip became an adolecent, his parents got him some guns. For target >>practice, as a hobby, but most of all, so that the gun loving lad could >>learn all about the safe, responsible use and discharge of firearms. >> When he was 15, this well brought up boy from a good family shot his >>parents to death. He then went to his school, and proceeded to open fire >on >>the other students in the cafeteria. >>>I am the stepmother of a 4-year-old boy who is having some problems at >>>daycare. He’s had problems with agression all along, but mostly it was >an >>>inability to control a temper (which isn’t acceptable by any standard, >but >>>at least it’s easy to see where it’s coming from). We’ve been through >>>counseling and he’s been evaluated for ADHD (he doesn’t have it). We’ve >>>tried many different things to try and change his behaviour, and >>>everything works a little, but nothing works for good. We do not believe >>>in hitting, but it does happen on rare occasions. >>>His mom and dad split up when she was pregnant with him, and I started >>>dating his father a month before his birth, so I’ve been around his >entire >>>life, and have a fairly good relationship (could be better, of course). >I >>>also have a good relationship with his mother, as does my husband. His >>>step dad is also a very decent guy. His birth parents have worked hard >>>from day one to remain on good terms and to work together to raise him. >>>BTW, his father had almost exactly the same aggression problems as a >young >>>child, and eventually outgrew them. >>>His TV watching is very strictly limited–only pre-approved videos at our >>>house, carefully monitored TV watching at his mom’s. >>>Recently, however, he’s gotten worse. Instead of merely losing his >temper >>>and lashing out, he’s started victimizing other kids. He tried to stab a >>>kid with scissors a month ago, and twice last week stabbed a kid with a >>>pencil. Fortunately there were no injuries, but we are at wit’s end. We >>>are back in counseling, and this time all four of his parental figures >are >>>attending (as apposed to only his birth parents). We are all reading the >>>same parenting books to try and work out a consistent approach. >>>After the first pencil-poking incident, Chris (the Dad) and I warned him >>>that if it happened again, we were going to take away all his toys, which >>>is what we did. Psychologist said it was important to follow through, and >>>didn’t feel it was an inappropriate punishment. At school, G (the kid) >>>gets ’smileys’ for having a violence-free morning or afternoon, and we >>>save them up to buy things (they are worth about 50 cents in real money), >>>and we are allowing him to "buy" back one of his toys for each smiley he >>>earns. However, incidents of serious violence will get his toys removed >>>again. At school (Montessori), he gets his freedoms removed for the >>>entire day for serious incidents, smaller units of time for lesser >>>incidents. During the time outs, he sits by himself at a table and has >>>work brought to him by teachers, and during play time, he must sit with a >>>teacher, and not play. Since the 2nd incident, he’s had two >violence-free >>>days, and one day in which he had a violence-free afternoon, and in the >>>morning a kid bumped him in the nose, so he hit. Not good, but at least >>>it’s not a case of victimizing for the sake of it. He is also REALLY >>>proud of himself when he gets smileys, and loves going upstairs to pick >>>out a new toy. Parenting manuals say to not punish a child at home when >>>he’s already punished at school, (No "double jeopardy"), but we don’t >feel >>>comfortable not doing *something* when he stabs a kid with a pencil. >>>Here’s the hard part: G is a pretty good kid at home. He has different >>>problems in his different households (he spends 1/2 time at each house), >>>of course.. He refuses to take naps at his Mom’s but does with us. He >>>occasionally doesn’t sleep through the night at our house, but almost >>>never wakes up in the night at his mom’s. He did have a temper tantrum >>>recently at his mom’s that included attempting to hit her, but that’s a >>>rareity. She handled it well, and I doubt that it’ll be a regular >>>problem. >>>Oh, and did I mention that he’s extremely bright? When he was evaluated >>>for at age 3 for ADHD, he tested several years ahead in intellectual >>>development, and a year or so behind for emotional. How do you handle a >>>kid who knows what he can do, but doesn’t have the emotional maturity to >>>handle that knowledge? He’s a whiz at math (he does simple addition and >>>subtraction easily), and has the concepts of reading down, and can sound >>>out words with difficulty. We’re careful to to push him too hard. >>>He’s also an attractive kid, and is a complete charmer. Adults fall in >>>love with him instantly. Yes, I’m biased, but I’ve seen people fall all >>>over him time and time again. He gets LOTS and lots of attention from us >>>and strangers, and isn’t terribly good at not getting attention. >>>His play is ALWAYS violent role-playing…action figures hurting each >>>other, punching noises, etc. The rule at our house, is that if he wants >>>someone to play with him, he can’t play violent. We don’t "swordfight" >>>with him at all (even if no one will get hurt), and my husband no longer >>>wrestles with him. If he’s going to play violent games anyway, he can do >>>it without us. Unfortunately his obsession was probably caused by us >going >>>overboard in trying to discourage it, making a big deal out of it, etc. >>>Most frightening of all, he now says he wants to be a bad guy when he >>>grows up, so he can do violence whenever he wants. I think he’s trying to >>>"play" us with that claim, but again, I’m not sure how to handle it. We >>>told him about jail (like losing his freedoms, but more boring), and that >>>bad people generally hurt each other, which meant that he might get hurt >>>if he chose that path (but not by us! We told him that we love him, but >>>that we tried to be good people, and we wouldn’t ever hurt him.) >>>Sigh…I know this was long…but does anyone have any advice? >>>Cathy W. > "If sense were common, more people would have it." >— Me >ICQ# – 33613577 >**Spam Trap** >Accentuate the Positive to send e-mail.
"If sense were common, more people would have it." — Me ICQ# – 33613577 **Spam Trap** Accentuate the Positive to send e-mail.
Response:
: 2. Can you get him into a very introductory martial arts class where : they emphasize the mental and self-control aspects of martial arts as : well as the physical. Maybe this would help him feel more powerful but : also more in control of himself. I’m not sure I am comfortable with this…teaching fighting, even in self-defense is still teaching someone how to fight, and he needs no help with this. Right now, because he doesn’t really understand the difference between agression and self-defense (which he sees as tit-for-tat), we are trying to teach him that’s it’s NEVER ok to hurt people, that if someone hurts him, that he should go to the teacher. When he’s older, and if he’s being victimized, then by all means, he should defend himself. But now, since he’s doing the victimizing, I don’t think it’s a good idea. However, channeling his physical energy, and working on self-control is a good idea. Perhaps a rigorous gymnastics program, or swimming lessons would be in order. Cathy W.
Response:
If you can’t speak without swearing, you have no business on a public forum. This newsgroup is read by people of all ages. Many of them children. Other people have religious objections to the use of the name of their god in vain. You might think that because your obscenities are directed at one person or another, that this excuses you. You are not excused. Shame on you. Take a deep breath, and go sit in the corner for an hour. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Goddamn it, Elaine, SHUT THE FUCK UP! What is WRONG with you??? The woman >is concerned, and your solution/advice/whatever the hell you call it is to >tell her about a kid who killed his parents? God, you are the MEANEST >human being I’ve ever met. Your parents did a lousy job with you, lady >(and I use the word "lady" very loosely). >Kathleen >wisdom, writ: > This is a long and difficult story. All of the adults involved seem like >good, reasonable people. > Who can help you? I dunno. You sure have your work cut out for you. > Your story reminds me of another bright, attractive, well loved boy from my >own community here in Oregon. That boy’s name is Kip Kinkel. > His parents were a stable, married loving couple. They were both educators. >They only had two kids, so there was plenty of time attention and material >goods for everyone. > Kip had always been enamored of anything violent. He loved guns, and would >make a gun out of anything. He loved to play guns and wargames. He was >interested in anything conserned with explosives, the military, war, the >police, bombmaking, crime. > When Kip became an adolecent, his parents got him some guns. For target >practice, as a hobby, but most of all, so that the gun loving lad could >learn all about the safe, responsible use and discharge of firearms. > When he was 15, this well brought up boy from a good family shot his >parents to death. He then went to his school, and proceeded to open fire on >the other students in the cafeteria. >>I am the stepmother of a 4-year-old boy who is having some problems at >>daycare. He’s had problems with agression all along, but mostly it was an >>inability to control a temper (which isn’t acceptable by any standard, but >>at least it’s easy to see where it’s coming from). We’ve been through >>counseling and he’s been evaluated for ADHD (he doesn’t have it). We’ve >>tried many different things to try and change his behaviour, and >>everything works a little, but nothing works for good. We do not believe >>in hitting, but it does happen on rare occasions. >>His mom and dad split up when she was pregnant with him, and I started >>dating his father a month before his birth, so I’ve been around his entire >>life, and have a fairly good relationship (could be better, of course). I >>also have a good relationship with his mother, as does my husband. His >>step dad is also a very decent guy. His birth parents have worked hard >>from day one to remain on good terms and to work together to raise him. >>BTW, his father had almost exactly the same aggression problems as a young >>child, and eventually outgrew them. >>His TV watching is very strictly limited–only pre-approved videos at our >>house, carefully monitored TV watching at his mom’s. >>Recently, however, he’s gotten worse. Instead of merely losing his temper >>and lashing out, he’s started victimizing other kids. He tried to stab a >>kid with scissors a month ago, and twice last week stabbed a kid with a >>pencil. Fortunately there were no injuries, but we are at wit’s end. We >>are back in counseling, and this time all four of his parental figures are >>attending (as apposed to only his birth parents). We are all reading the >>same parenting books to try and work out a consistent approach. >>After the first pencil-poking incident, Chris (the Dad) and I warned him >>that if it happened again, we were going to take away all his toys, which >>is what we did. Psychologist said it was important to follow through, and >>didn’t feel it was an inappropriate punishment. At school, G (the kid) >>gets ’smileys’ for having a violence-free morning or afternoon, and we >>save them up to buy things (they are worth about 50 cents in real money), >>and we are allowing him to "buy" back one of his toys for each smiley he >>earns. However, incidents of serious violence will get his toys removed >>again. At school (Montessori), he gets his freedoms removed for the >>entire day for serious incidents, smaller units of time for lesser >>incidents. During the time outs, he sits by himself at a table and has >>work brought to him by teachers, and during play time, he must sit with a >>teacher, and not play. Since the 2nd incident, he’s had two violence-free >>days, and one day in which he had a violence-free afternoon, and in the >>morning a kid bumped him in the nose, so he hit. Not good, but at least >>it’s not a case of victimizing for the sake of it. He is also REALLY >>proud of himself when he gets smileys, and loves going upstairs to pick >>out a new toy. Parenting manuals say to not punish a child at home when >>he’s already punished at school, (No "double jeopardy"), but we don’t feel >>comfortable not doing *something* when he stabs a kid with a pencil. >>Here’s the hard part: G is a pretty good kid at home. He has different >>problems in his different households (he spends 1/2 time at each house), >>of course.. He refuses to take naps at his Mom’s but does with us. He >>occasionally doesn’t sleep through the night at our house, but almost >>never wakes up in the night at his mom’s. He did have a temper tantrum >>recently at his mom’s that included attempting to hit her, but that’s a >>rareity. She handled it well, and I doubt that it’ll be a regular >>problem. >>Oh, and did I mention that he’s extremely bright? When he was evaluated >>for at age 3 for ADHD, he tested several years ahead in intellectual >>development, and a year or so behind for emotional. How do you handle a >>kid who knows what he can do, but doesn’t have the emotional maturity to >>handle that knowledge? He’s a whiz at math (he does simple addition and >>subtraction easily), and has the concepts of reading down, and can sound >>out words with difficulty. We’re careful to to push him too hard. >>He’s also an attractive kid, and is a complete charmer. Adults fall in >>love with him instantly. Yes, I’m biased, but I’ve seen people fall all >>over him time and time again. He gets LOTS and lots of attention from us >>and strangers, and isn’t terribly good at not getting attention. >>His play is ALWAYS violent role-playing…action figures hurting each >>other, punching noises, etc. The rule at our house, is that if he wants >>someone to play with him, he can’t play violent. We don’t "swordfight" >>with him at all (even if no one will get hurt), and my husband no longer >>wrestles with him. If he’s going to play violent games anyway, he can do >>it without us. Unfortunately his obsession was probably caused by us going >>overboard in trying to discourage it, making a big deal out of it, etc. >>Most frightening of all, he now says he wants to be a bad guy when he >>grows up, so he can do violence whenever he wants. I think he’s trying to >>"play" us with that claim, but again, I’m not sure how to handle it. We >>told him about jail (like losing his freedoms, but more boring), and that >>bad people generally hurt each other, which meant that he might get hurt >>if he chose that path (but not by us! We told him that we love him, but >>that we tried to be good people, and we wouldn’t ever hurt him.) >>Sigh…I know this was long…but does anyone have any advice? >>Cathy W. > "If sense were common, more people would have it." >— Me >ICQ# – 33613577 >**Spam Trap** >Accentuate the Positive to send e-mail.
Response:
Sorry to say I have no magic answers for you, this sounds like a complex case which will take quite a bit of time and effort on all 4 parents parts to solve. A couple of things I noticed: this seems to be a little boy with alot of anger, which he doesn’t know how to express without violence. Try teaching him positive, constructive ways to release his anger and frustrations. He is not too young for martial arts, which can be a good outlet for aggression. Also, sounds like he needs a bit more conformity in his life. (Taking naps at your house via refusing at his moms, etc.) Little kids need a small, controlled world to feel safe in. Is it possible for him to live in one place only and have people visit _him_ rather than him go visit people (I mean visits that take many days, like weekends). Maybe he feels his life is out of control. I think kids need to feel "tightly wrapped" in reality, with firm boundaries, both physical and behavioral. Hope you can help the little guy out. Good luck. Norma
:I am the stepmother of a 4-year-old boy who is having some problems at :daycare. He’s had problems with agression all along, but mostly it was an :inability to control a temper (which isn’t acceptable by any standard, but :at least it’s easy to see where it’s coming from). We’ve been through :counseling and he’s been evaluated for ADHD (he doesn’t have it). We’ve :tried many different things to try and change his behaviour, and :everything works a little, but nothing works for good. We do not believe :in hitting, but it does happen on rare occasions. : :His mom and dad split up when she was pregnant with him, and I started :dating his father a month before his birth, so I’ve been around his entire :life, and have a fairly good relationship (could be better, of course). I :also have a good relationship with his mother, as does my husband. His :step dad is also a very decent guy. His birth parents have worked hard :from day one to remain on good terms and to work together to raise him. :BTW, his father had almost exactly the same aggression problems as a young :child, and eventually outgrew them. : :His TV watching is very strictly limited–only pre-approved videos at our :house, carefully monitored TV watching at his mom’s. : :Recently, however, he’s gotten worse. Instead of merely losing his temper :and lashing out, he’s started victimizing other kids. He tried to stab a :kid with scissors a month ago, and twice last week stabbed a kid with a :pencil. Fortunately there were no injuries, but we are at wit’s end. We :are back in counseling, and this time all four of his parental figures are :attending (as apposed to only his birth parents). We are all reading the :same parenting books to try and work out a consistent approach. : :After the first pencil-poking incident, Chris (the Dad) and I warned him :that if it happened again, we were going to take away all his toys, which :is what we did. Psychologist said it was important to follow through, and :didn’t feel it was an inappropriate punishment. At school, G (the kid) :gets ’smileys’ for having a violence-free morning or afternoon, and we :save them up to buy things (they are worth about 50 cents in real money), :and we are allowing him to "buy" back one of his toys for each smiley he :earns. However, incidents of serious violence will get his toys removed :again. At school (Montessori), he gets his freedoms removed for the :entire day for serious incidents, smaller units of time for lesser :incidents. During the time outs, he sits by himself at a table and has :work brought to him by teachers, and during play time, he must sit with a :teacher, and not play. Since the 2nd incident, he’s had two violence-free :days, and one day in which he had a violence-free afternoon, and in the :morning a kid bumped him in the nose, so he hit. Not good, but at least :it’s not a case of victimizing for the sake of it. He is also REALLY :proud of himself when he gets smileys, and loves going upstairs to pick 
ut a new toy. Parenting manuals say to not punish a child at home when :he’s already punished at school, (No "double jeopardy"), but we don’t feel :comfortable not doing *something* when he stabs a kid with a pencil. : :Here’s the hard part: G is a pretty good kid at home. He has different :problems in his different households (he spends 1/2 time at each house), f course.. He refuses to take naps at his Mom’s but does with us. He ccasionally doesn’t sleep through the night at our house, but almost :never wakes up in the night at his mom’s. He did have a temper tantrum :recently at his mom’s that included attempting to hit her, but that’s a :rareity. She handled it well, and I doubt that it’ll be a regular :problem. : :Oh, and did I mention that he’s extremely bright? When he was evaluated :for at age 3 for ADHD, he tested several years ahead in intellectual :development, and a year or so behind for emotional. How do you handle a :kid who knows what he can do, but doesn’t have the emotional maturity to :handle that knowledge? He’s a whiz at math (he does simple addition and :subtraction easily), and has the concepts of reading down, and can sound ut words with difficulty. We’re careful to to push him too hard. : :He’s also an attractive kid, and is a complete charmer. Adults fall in :love with him instantly. Yes, I’m biased, but I’ve seen people fall all ver him time and time again. He gets LOTS and lots of attention from us :and strangers, and isn’t terribly good at not getting attention. : :His play is ALWAYS violent role-playing…action figures hurting each ther, punching noises, etc. The rule at our house, is that if he wants :someone to play with him, he can’t play violent. We don’t "swordfight" :with him at all (even if no one will get hurt), and my husband no longer :wrestles with him. If he’s going to play violent games anyway, he can do :it without us. Unfortunately his obsession was probably caused by us going verboard in trying to discourage it, making a big deal out of it, etc. :Most frightening of all, he now says he wants to be a bad guy when he :grows up, so he can do violence whenever he wants. I think he’s trying to :"play" us with that claim, but again, I’m not sure how to handle it. We :told him about jail (like losing his freedoms, but more boring), and that :bad people generally hurt each other, which meant that he might get hurt :if he chose that path (but not by us! We told him that we love him, but :that we tried to be good people, and we wouldn’t ever hurt him.) : :Sigh…I know this was long…but does anyone have any advice? : :Cathy W.
Response:
Goddamn it, Elaine, SHUT THE FUCK UP! What is WRONG with you??? The woman is concerned, and your solution/advice/whatever the hell you call it is to tell her about a kid who killed his parents? God, you are the MEANEST human being I’ve ever met. Your parents did a lousy job with you, lady (and I use the word "lady" very loosely). Kathleen wisdom, writ: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This is a long and difficult story. All of the adults involved seem like >good, reasonable people. > Who can help you? I dunno. You sure have your work cut out for you. > Your story reminds me of another bright, attractive, well loved boy from my >own community here in Oregon. That boy’s name is Kip Kinkel. > His parents were a stable, married loving couple. They were both educators. >They only had two kids, so there was plenty of time attention and material >goods for everyone. > Kip had always been enamored of anything violent. He loved guns, and would >make a gun out of anything. He loved to play guns and wargames. He was >interested in anything conserned with explosives, the military, war, the >police, bombmaking, crime. > When Kip became an adolecent, his parents got him some guns. For target >practice, as a hobby, but most of all, so that the gun loving lad could >learn all about the safe, responsible use and discharge of firearms. > When he was 15, this well brought up boy from a good family shot his >parents to death. He then went to his school, and proceeded to open fire on >the other students in the cafeteria. >I am the stepmother of a 4-year-old boy who is having some problems at >daycare. He’s had problems with agression all along, but mostly it was an >inability to control a temper (which isn’t acceptable by any standard, but >at least it’s easy to see where it’s coming from). We’ve been through >counseling and he’s been evaluated for ADHD (he doesn’t have it). We’ve >tried many different things to try and change his behaviour, and >everything works a little, but nothing works for good. We do not believe >in hitting, but it does happen on rare occasions. >His mom and dad split up when she was pregnant with him, and I started >dating his father a month before his birth, so I’ve been around his entire >life, and have a fairly good relationship (could be better, of course). I >also have a good relationship with his mother, as does my husband. His >step dad is also a very decent guy. His birth parents have worked hard >from day one to remain on good terms and to work together to raise him. >BTW, his father had almost exactly the same aggression problems as a young >child, and eventually outgrew them. >His TV watching is very strictly limited–only pre-approved videos at our >house, carefully monitored TV watching at his mom’s. >Recently, however, he’s gotten worse. Instead of merely losing his temper >and lashing out, he’s started victimizing other kids. He tried to stab a >kid with scissors a month ago, and twice last week stabbed a kid with a >pencil. Fortunately there were no injuries, but we are at wit’s end. We >are back in counseling, and this time all four of his parental figures are >attending (as apposed to only his birth parents). We are all reading the >same parenting books to try and work out a consistent approach. >After the first pencil-poking incident, Chris (the Dad) and I warned him >that if it happened again, we were going to take away all his toys, which >is what we did. Psychologist said it was important to follow through, and >didn’t feel it was an inappropriate punishment. At school, G (the kid) >gets ’smileys’ for having a violence-free morning or afternoon, and we >save them up to buy things (they are worth about 50 cents in real money), >and we are allowing him to "buy" back one of his toys for each smiley he >earns. However, incidents of serious violence will get his toys removed >again. At school (Montessori), he gets his freedoms removed for the >entire day for serious incidents, smaller units of time for lesser >incidents. During the time outs, he sits by himself at a table and has >work brought to him by teachers, and during play time, he must sit with a >teacher, and not play. Since the 2nd incident, he’s had two violence-free >days, and one day in which he had a violence-free afternoon, and in the >morning a kid bumped him in the nose, so he hit. Not good, but at least >it’s not a case of victimizing for the sake of it. He is also REALLY >proud of himself when he gets smileys, and loves going upstairs to pick >out a new toy. Parenting manuals say to not punish a child at home when >he’s already punished at school, (No "double jeopardy"), but we don’t feel >comfortable not doing *something* when he stabs a kid with a pencil. >Here’s the hard part: G is a pretty good kid at home. He has different >problems in his different households (he spends 1/2 time at each house), >of course.. He refuses to take naps at his Mom’s but does with us. He >occasionally doesn’t sleep through the night at our house, but almost >never wakes up in the night at his mom’s. He did have a temper tantrum >recently at his mom’s that included attempting to hit her, but that’s a >rareity. She handled it well, and I doubt that it’ll be a regular >problem. >Oh, and did I mention that he’s extremely bright? When he was evaluated >for at age 3 for ADHD, he tested several years ahead in intellectual >development, and a year or so behind for emotional. How do you handle a >kid who knows what he can do, but doesn’t have the emotional maturity to >handle that knowledge? He’s a whiz at math (he does simple addition and >subtraction easily), and has the concepts of reading down, and can sound >out words with difficulty. We’re careful to to push him too hard. >He’s also an attractive kid, and is a complete charmer. Adults fall in >love with him instantly. Yes, I’m biased, but I’ve seen people fall all >over him time and time again. He gets LOTS and lots of attention from us >and strangers, and isn’t terribly good at not getting attention. >His play is ALWAYS violent role-playing…action figures hurting each >other, punching noises, etc. The rule at our house, is that if he wants >someone to play with him, he can’t play violent. We don’t "swordfight" >with him at all (even if no one will get hurt), and my husband no longer >wrestles with him. If he’s going to play violent games anyway, he can do >it without us. Unfortunately his obsession was probably caused by us going >overboard in trying to discourage it, making a big deal out of it, etc. >Most frightening of all, he now says he wants to be a bad guy when he >grows up, so he can do violence whenever he wants. I think he’s trying to >"play" us with that claim, but again, I’m not sure how to handle it. We >told him about jail (like losing his freedoms, but more boring), and that >bad people generally hurt each other, which meant that he might get hurt >if he chose that path (but not by us! We told him that we love him, but >that we tried to be good people, and we wouldn’t ever hurt him.) >Sigh…I know this was long…but does anyone have any advice? >Cathy W.
"If sense were common, more people would have it." — Me ICQ# – 33613577 **Spam Trap** Accentuate the Positive to send e-mail.
Response:
>This is a hard one. Fortunately it sounds as if all the adults in your >step-son’s life are intelligent, caring people committed to doing >whatever has to be done to raise this kid. I an only offer two thoughts, >and they are both that – just ideas. >1. Do you think the Montessori environment might provide too much >freedom for him. I understand that Montessori is built on the child’s >regulation of himself, but maybe right now that is too tough for him. >I’m not knocking Montessori, just asking if it is right for this kid at >this stage of his live. >2. Can you get him into a very introductory martial arts class where >they emphasize the mental and self-control aspects of martial arts as >well as the physical. Maybe this would help him feel more powerful but >also more in control of himself.
Training a violent kid in techniques of intimidation and efficient fighting? Funny how pervasive this line of resoning is. Remember how Kip Kinkel got his guns? His parents bought them for him. They figured that having the guns would make the violent teen safer to be around. The Kinkels both agree now that this was not a good idea. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Good luck. keep us updated
Response:
This is a hard one. Fortunately it sounds as if all the adults in your step-son’s life are intelligent, caring people committed to doing whatever has to be done to raise this kid. I an only offer two thoughts, and they are both that – just ideas. 1. Do you think the Montessori environment might provide too much freedom for him. I understand that Montessori is built on the child’s regulation of himself, but maybe right now that is too tough for him. I’m not knocking Montessori, just asking if it is right for this kid at this stage of his live. 2. Can you get him into a very introductory martial arts class where they emphasize the mental and self-control aspects of martial arts as well as the physical. Maybe this would help him feel more powerful but also more in control of himself. Good luck. keep us updated
Response:
This is a long and difficult story. All of the adults involved seem like good, reasonable people. Who can help you? I dunno. You sure have your work cut out for you. Your story reminds me of another bright, attractive, well loved boy from my own community here in Oregon. That boy’s name is Kip Kinkel. His parents were a stable, married loving couple. They were both educators. They only had two kids, so there was plenty of time attention and material goods for everyone. Kip had always been enamored of anything violent. He loved guns, and would make a gun out of anything. He loved to play guns and wargames. He was interested in anything conserned with explosives, the military, war, the police, bombmaking, crime. When Kip became an adolecent, his parents got him some guns. For target practice, as a hobby, but most of all, so that the gun loving lad could learn all about the safe, responsible use and discharge of firearms. When he was 15, this well brought up boy from a good family shot his parents to death. He then went to his school, and proceeded to open fire on the other students in the cafeteria.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I am the stepmother of a 4-year-old boy who is having some problems at >daycare. He’s had problems with agression all along, but mostly it was an >inability to control a temper (which isn’t acceptable by any standard, but >at least it’s easy to see where it’s coming from). We’ve been through >counseling and he’s been evaluated for ADHD (he doesn’t have it). We’ve >tried many different things to try and change his behaviour, and >everything works a little, but nothing works for good. We do not believe >in hitting, but it does happen on rare occasions. >His mom and dad split up when she was pregnant with him, and I started >dating his father a month before his birth, so I’ve been around his entire >life, and have a fairly good relationship (could be better, of course). I >also have a good relationship with his mother, as does my husband. His >step dad is also a very decent guy. His birth parents have worked hard >from day one to remain on good terms and to work together to raise him. >BTW, his father had almost exactly the same aggression problems as a young >child, and eventually outgrew them. >His TV watching is very strictly limited–only pre-approved videos at our >house, carefully monitored TV watching at his mom’s. >Recently, however, he’s gotten worse. Instead of merely losing his temper >and lashing out, he’s started victimizing other kids. He tried to stab a >kid with scissors a month ago, and twice last week stabbed a kid with a >pencil. Fortunately there were no injuries, but we are at wit’s end. We >are back in counseling, and this time all four of his parental figures are >attending (as apposed to only his birth parents). We are all reading the >same parenting books to try and work out a consistent approach. >After the first pencil-poking incident, Chris (the Dad) and I warned him >that if it happened again, we were going to take away all his toys, which >is what we did. Psychologist said it was important to follow through, and >didn’t feel it was an inappropriate punishment. At school, G (the kid) >gets ’smileys’ for having a violence-free morning or afternoon, and we >save them up to buy things (they are worth about 50 cents in real money), >and we are allowing him to "buy" back one of his toys for each smiley he >earns. However, incidents of serious violence will get his toys removed >again. At school (Montessori), he gets his freedoms removed for the >entire day for serious incidents, smaller units of time for lesser >incidents. During the time outs, he sits by himself at a table and has >work brought to him by teachers, and during play time, he must sit with a >teacher, and not play. Since the 2nd incident, he’s had two violence-free >days, and one day in which he had a violence-free afternoon, and in the >morning a kid bumped him in the nose, so he hit. Not good, but at least >it’s not a case of victimizing for the sake of it. He is also REALLY >proud of himself when he gets smileys, and loves going upstairs to pick >out a new toy. Parenting manuals say to not punish a child at home when >he’s already punished at school, (No "double jeopardy"), but we don’t feel >comfortable not doing *something* when he stabs a kid with a pencil. >Here’s the hard part: G is a pretty good kid at home. He has different >problems in his different households (he spends 1/2 time at each house), >of course.. He refuses to take naps at his Mom’s but does with us. He >occasionally doesn’t sleep through the night at our house, but almost >never wakes up in the night at his mom’s. He did have a temper tantrum >recently at his mom’s that included attempting to hit her, but that’s a >rareity. She handled it well, and I doubt that it’ll be a regular >problem. >Oh, and did I mention that he’s extremely bright? When he was evaluated >for at age 3 for ADHD, he tested several years ahead in intellectual >development, and a year or so behind for emotional. How do you handle a >kid who knows what he can do, but doesn’t have the emotional maturity to >handle that knowledge? He’s a whiz at math (he does simple addition and >subtraction easily), and has the concepts of reading down, and can sound >out words with difficulty. We’re careful to to push him too hard. >He’s also an attractive kid, and is a complete charmer. Adults fall in >love with him instantly. Yes, I’m biased, but I’ve seen people fall all >over him time and time again. He gets LOTS and lots of attention from us >and strangers, and isn’t terribly good at not getting attention. >His play is ALWAYS violent role-playing…action figures hurting each >other, punching noises, etc. The rule at our house, is that if he wants >someone to play with him, he can’t play violent. We don’t "swordfight" >with him at all (even if no one will get hurt), and my husband no longer >wrestles with him. If he’s going to play violent games anyway, he can do >it without us. Unfortunately his obsession was probably caused by us going >overboard in trying to discourage it, making a big deal out of it, etc. >Most frightening of all, he now says he wants to be a bad guy when he >grows up, so he can do violence whenever he wants. I think he’s trying to >"play" us with that claim, but again, I’m not sure how to handle it. We >told him about jail (like losing his freedoms, but more boring), and that >bad people generally hurt each other, which meant that he might get hurt >if he chose that path (but not by us! We told him that we love him, but >that we tried to be good people, and we wouldn’t ever hurt him.) >Sigh…I know this was long…but does anyone have any advice? >Cathy W.
Response:
I am the stepmother of a 4-year-old boy who is having some problems at daycare. He’s had problems with agression all along, but mostly it was an inability to control a temper (which isn’t acceptable by any standard, but at least it’s easy to see where it’s coming from). We’ve been through counseling and he’s been evaluated for ADHD (he doesn’t have it). We’ve tried many different things to try and change his behaviour, and everything works a little, but nothing works for good. We do not believe in hitting, but it does happen on rare occasions. His mom and dad split up when she was pregnant with him, and I started dating his father a month before his birth, so I’ve been around his entire life, and have a fairly good relationship (could be better, of course). I also have a good relationship with his mother, as does my husband. His step dad is also a very decent guy. His birth parents have worked hard from day one to remain on good terms and to work together to raise him. BTW, his father had almost exactly the same aggression problems as a young child, and eventually outgrew them. His TV watching is very strictly limited–only pre-approved videos at our house, carefully monitored TV watching at his mom’s. Recently, however, he’s gotten worse. Instead of merely losing his temper and lashing out, he’s started victimizing other kids. He tried to stab a kid with scissors a month ago, and twice last week stabbed a kid with a pencil. Fortunately there were no injuries, but we are at wit’s end. We are back in counseling, and this time all four of his parental figures are attending (as apposed to only his birth parents). We are all reading the same parenting books to try and work out a consistent approach. After the first pencil-poking incident, Chris (the Dad) and I warned him that if it happened again, we were going to take away all his toys, which is what we did. Psychologist said it was important to follow through, and didn’t feel it was an inappropriate punishment. At school, G (the kid) gets ’smileys’ for having a violence-free morning or afternoon, and we save them up to buy things (they are worth about 50 cents in real money), and we are allowing him to "buy" back one of his toys for each smiley he earns. However, incidents of serious violence will get his toys removed again. At school (Montessori), he gets his freedoms removed for the entire day for serious incidents, smaller units of time for lesser incidents. During the time outs, he sits by himself at a table and has work brought to him by teachers, and during play time, he must sit with a teacher, and not play. Since the 2nd incident, he’s had two violence-free days, and one day in which he had a violence-free afternoon, and in the morning a kid bumped him in the nose, so he hit. Not good, but at least it’s not a case of victimizing for the sake of it. He is also REALLY proud of himself when he gets smileys, and loves going upstairs to pick out a new toy. Parenting manuals say to not punish a child at home when he’s already punished at school, (No "double jeopardy"), but we don’t feel comfortable not doing *something* when he stabs a kid with a pencil. Here’s the hard part: G is a pretty good kid at home. He has different problems in his different households (he spends 1/2 time at each house), of course.. He refuses to take naps at his Mom’s but does with us. He occasionally doesn’t sleep through the night at our house, but almost never wakes up in the night at his mom’s. He did have a temper tantrum recently at his mom’s that included attempting to hit her, but that’s a rareity. She handled it well, and I doubt that it’ll be a regular problem. Oh, and did I mention that he’s extremely bright? When he was evaluated for at age 3 for ADHD, he tested several years ahead in intellectual development, and a year or so behind for emotional. How do you handle a kid who knows what he can do, but doesn’t have the emotional maturity to handle that knowledge? He’s a whiz at math (he does simple addition and subtraction easily), and has the concepts of reading down, and can sound out words with difficulty. We’re careful to to push him too hard. He’s also an attractive kid, and is a complete charmer. Adults fall in love with him instantly. Yes, I’m biased, but I’ve seen people fall all over him time and time again. He gets LOTS and lots of attention from us and strangers, and isn’t terribly good at not getting attention. His play is ALWAYS violent role-playing…action figures hurting each other, punching noises, etc. The rule at our house, is that if he wants someone to play with him, he can’t play violent. We don’t "swordfight" with him at all (even if no one will get hurt), and my husband no longer wrestles with him. If he’s going to play violent games anyway, he can do it without us. Unfortunately his obsession was probably caused by us going overboard in trying to discourage it, making a big deal out of it, etc. Most frightening of all, he now says he wants to be a bad guy when he grows up, so he can do violence whenever he wants. I think he’s trying to "play" us with that claim, but again, I’m not sure how to handle it. We told him about jail (like losing his freedoms, but more boring), and that bad people generally hurt each other, which meant that he might get hurt if he chose that path (but not by us! We told him that we love him, but that we tried to be good people, and we wouldn’t ever hurt him.) Sigh…I know this was long…but does anyone have any advice? Cathy W.
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