Pure Parents

Question:

> I just wanted to thank everyone for the comments and personal relations to > this particular problem. > I’m not sure what happened.

I am. > It might have been when I pulled him out of the > pool last week and told him we weren’t going anymore if he wasn’t going to > even try that gave him the right kick in the ass

Nope. He did what he did because of human developmental imperatives. You damn near blew it for him. Shows you how hardy human beings really are when they can overcome the ignorance of their parents. > or if he came about this > on his own (Personally I think it was the latter)

One point for you. Now try to figure out why, as he, like all kids, has a great many more of these kinds of challenges ahead of him and if you keep berating and threatening you are going to wind up with a very angry hostile teen that will make our life hell, as you deserve, if you don’t drag out those child development books and learn what is really happening. You are so far, by your remarks, from knowing what you need to know it’s embarassing to read your post. > but he has been doing > *way* more than excellent this week.  He’s dunking, front-floating, > listening and most importantly, he’s *trying* to learn.

Who knows, maybe the instructor has had some good interpersonal skills training along with child development knowledge (if he or she is trained in recreation chances are). When you finally got out of the way the instructor could work using those skills. He or she probably got that you’d lose it when hearing the instructor validate the child’s very real fears (they disapate quickly when you acknowledge them, the take root when you try to deny them). > I could give two shits if couldn’t swim yet, it was the total lack of even > trying

Excuse me. Was he or was he not in the water all that time? He WAS TRYING the best he could under the circumstances of his fear. You damn near blew it for him. Tough brave kid and you are calling him a coward and sluggard. Gee, how supportive. > and the whining

Whining is usually a learned behavior…guess who he got it from? > about it all that was upsetting my wife and I so.

Next time tell him to tell you in a normal voice what his fears are and validate every single one, even if you don’t believe him. They’ll desolve as though they didn’t ever exist. Here, try this, "Boy, Billy it sure is scary after having fallen in the water, to get back in again." then shut up…no other words, nothing. No sympathy, no advice, no humoring, just a kindly encouraging smile, and you’ll have a tiger on your hands. This kid has already proved braver and tougher than you and your wife with you "upsetting my wife and I so" bull. It isn’t a child’s business to calm his parents. It’s theirs to calm and encourage the child, no matter how much you dislike what he is doing. > This week, however, is a complete turnaround. > In yesterday’s class he managed to front-float.  I haven’t seen him this > proud of himself in ages.  Of course, both my wife and I congradulated him > and told him how proud we were.  He’s still beaming about it!

Tough kid. I admire him greatly. He overcame YOU and his fear. I’ll bet the instructor had something to do with it. > At any rate, thank you all for your responses.  I wish I knew what helped, > but I suppose that in the long run all that matters is that his confidence > is there and he realizes that we just want him to try.

No, that is definately not "all the matters". What matters is that you don’t pursue this course when his next life challenge comes up and there is no trained instructor to pull your ass out of the fire you are going to get. Get a damn child development book. Red cross has them. Any decent college library has them…psych section usually. Read it. Learn. Children are not a bit like what we think they are. There isn’t an ounce of evil intent, or cowardice, or any other of your bullshit in them. They are in reaction to their development and what creates difficult teens (and younger) is ignorant parents. Try a good parenting book. PET, Tom Gordon, is a basic primer in how to actually parent to the child’s strengths and real needs and builds stronger bonds between parent and child. > Regards,

Regards to you. Don’t let my rant bother you. I just want to make sure to wake up yet another ignorant (no offense intended) parent before yet another child gets burned on his or her development needs. > Andrew

Kane

Response:

> It would be a great idea if you went to the local college and took a > course in child development.  You are your wife are idiots and need to > get a clue.

Oh no, the trolls are ganging up on me!   What am I ever going to do? Regards, Andrew

Response:

> One point for you. Now try to figure out why, as he, like all kids, > has a great many more of these kinds of challenges ahead of him and if > you keep berating and threatening you are going to wind up with a very > angry hostile teen that will make our life hell, as you deserve, if > you don’t drag out those child development books and learn what is > really happening.

While it doesn’t count for a whole lot, I learned a lot from my high school parenting course (I took it because I like kids and figured it would be good to know a bit about how their heads work) — Early child development and psychology is on my reading list, too. > You are so far, by your remarks, from knowing what you need to know > it’s embarassing to read your post.

I seriously doubt that.  You don’t need a Ph.D to raise kids without them turning out wrong.  You need to show love, respect and discipline and more importantly teach self-love, -respect and -discipline.  (I said discipline, not punishment.)  Anything above that helps, of course, but doesn’t mean the child will turn out any better, per se.  It’ll definately help keep your sanity and help you understand *why* a child is doing something a certain way. > Who knows, maybe the instructor has had some good interpersonal skills > training along with child development knowledge (if he or she is > trained in recreation chances are). When you finally got out of the > way the instructor could work using those skills. He or she probably > got that you’d lose it when hearing the instructor validate the > child’s very real fears (they disapate quickly when you acknowledge > them, the take root when you try to deny them).

You’re so far off-base it’s a wonder you’re still on-topic.  You seem to think that I was there every day.  He was in lessons for one week, and I came for one half hour at the end of the first week.  He’s now finishing up his second week.  Same instructor, same environment.  I was there for a half hour and I was in the way?  Puh-lease. > Whining is usually a learned behavior…guess who he got it from?

Ooh… did your psychology and ECE classes teach you to do that?  How big of you. > Next time tell him to tell you in a normal voice what his fears are > and validate every single one, even if you don’t believe him. They’ll > desolve as though they didn’t ever exist. Here, try this, "Boy, Billy > it sure is scary after having fallen in the water, to get back in > again." then shut up…no other words, nothing. No sympathy, no > advice, no humoring, just a kindly encouraging smile, and you’ll have > a tiger on your hands. This kid has already proved braver and tougher > than you and your wife with you "upsetting my wife and I so" bull.

Perhaps it is my writing style which lets you think that.  We normally validate his fears.  (previous ones were the dark and bugs; Monsters, Inc. validated his fears about monsters.  You (and a few of the others) think you know everything about my eldest and my interactions with him from a handful of posts; you must be so wise. > Tough kid. I admire him greatly. He overcame YOU and his fear. I’ll > bet the instructor had something to do with it.

See above, all-seeing, all-knowing usenet poster. I was there for 1/2 hour after one week into the two weeks of lessons.  I went there after hearing from the instructor that he didn’t appear to be trying.  I don’t tolerate that, and my kids know it.  If he were trying I wouldn’t have gotten upset.  I didn’t believe it was his accident last year that was the cause of this since he was in the water — even deep water — many times after that and before this.  These were his first "big pool" lessons of this year (i.e. since the winter) so I guess he regressed a little. Hell, if I were the pompous type I might even go on to say that since I did go there and show my disapproval of his actions and he showed marked improvement afterward that I did something right.  Honestly though, I don’t think that’s what it was.  It may have been part of it, maybe even some kind of catalyst, but he turned the situation around on his own, realized that we were telling him the truth and that hey, it’s not so hard after all. > Regards to you. Don’t let my rant bother you. I just want to make sure > to wake up yet another ignorant (no offense intended) parent before > yet another child gets burned on his or her development needs.

I don’t mind being proven wrong.  At all.  Follow the threads in sci.electronics.design and on the various web boards I post on to see that.   I welcome constructive criticism.  I know I don’t know it all, and I don’t profess to.  What I don’t welcome is the condescending attitude and the claims made about my parenting abilities based on once scenario out of ten thousand or more.  That’s not even enough to state that you’re following a trend! I think that I’m a pretty decent parent.  My kids are all healthy and strong and smart, and I love them all unconditionally. They know that because I tell them so pretty much every day and try to show them through my interaction with them at all times.  Even when I’m angry at them I let them know that it doesn’t mean that I don’t love them.  I don’t tolerate certain things (e.g. not-trying, whining, talking back, etc.) but the rules are consistent and (in my mind) are only common sense.  My kids know all of this, too.  They don’t live in fear of me.  It’s my hope that they will grow up to be productive and happy and able to instill the same lessons of self-love, respect and discipline that I am trying to instill into them and show them that I possess. Regards, Andrew

Response:

>I just wanted to thank everyone for the comments and personal relations to >this particular problem. >I’m not sure what happened.  It might have been when I pulled him out of the >pool last week and told him we weren’t going anymore if he wasn’t going to >even try that gave him the right kick in the ass or if he came about this >on his own (Personally I think it was the latter) but he has been doing >*way* more than excellent this week.  He’s dunking, front-floating, >listening and most importantly, he’s *trying* to learn.

It would be a great idea if you went to the local college and took a course in child development.  You are your wife are idiots and need to get a clue. Loev, Ms Pants

Response:

Congrats that it worked out! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I just wanted to thank everyone for the comments and personal relations to > this particular problem. > I’m not sure what happened.  It might have been when I pulled him out of the > pool last week and told him we weren’t going anymore if he wasn’t going to > even try that gave him the right kick in the ass or if he came about this > on his own (Personally I think it was the latter) but he has been doing > *way* more than excellent this week.  He’s dunking, front-floating, > listening and most importantly, he’s *trying* to learn. > I could give two shits if couldn’t swim yet, it was the total lack of even > trying and the whining about it all that was upsetting my wife and I so. > This week, however, is a complete turnaround. > In yesterday’s class he managed to front-float.  I haven’t seen him this > proud of himself in ages.  Of course, both my wife and I congradulated him > and told him how proud we were.  He’s still beaming about it! > At any rate, thank you all for your responses.  I wish I knew what helped, > but I suppose that in the long run all that matters is that his confidence > is there and he realizes that we just want him to try. > Regards, > Andrew

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I just wanted to thank everyone for the comments and personal relations to > this particular problem. > I’m not sure what happened.  It might have been when I pulled him out of the > pool last week and told him we weren’t going anymore if he wasn’t going to > even try that gave him the right kick in the ass or if he came about this > on his own (Personally I think it was the latter) but he has been doing > *way* more than excellent this week.  He’s dunking, front-floating, > listening and most importantly, he’s *trying* to learn. > I could give two shits if couldn’t swim yet, it was the total lack of even > trying and the whining about it all that was upsetting my wife and I so. > This week, however, is a complete turnaround. > In yesterday’s class he managed to front-float.  I haven’t seen him this > proud of himself in ages.  Of course, both my wife and I congradulated him > and told him how proud we were.  He’s still beaming about it! > At any rate, thank you all for your responses.  I wish I knew what helped, > but I suppose that in the long run all that matters is that his confidence > is there and he realizes that we just want him to try.

well, I wasn’t too nice in my responce to your post, but congrats on your kid overcoming his fear of the water. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Regards, > Andrew

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I just wanted to thank everyone for the comments and personal relations to >this particular problem. >I’m not sure what happened.  It might have been when I pulled him out of the >pool last week and told him we weren’t going anymore if he wasn’t going to >even try that gave him the right kick in the ass or if he came about this >on his own (Personally I think it was the latter) but he has been doing >*way* more than excellent this week.  He’s dunking, front-floating, >listening and most importantly, he’s *trying* to learn. >I could give two shits if couldn’t swim yet, it was the total lack of even >trying and the whining about it all that was upsetting my wife and I so.   >This week, however, is a complete turnaround. >In yesterday’s class he managed to front-float.  I haven’t seen him this >proud of himself in ages.  Of course, both my wife and I congradulated him >and told him how proud we were.  He’s still beaming about it! >At any rate, thank you all for your responses.  I wish I knew what helped, >but I suppose that in the long run all that matters is that his confidence >is there and he realizes that we just want him to try. >Andrew

He may seem to have even gained from this, but he has also lost from this. He now knows he can’t really count on you to love him unconditionally. And now you will get to see what happens to a kid when that’s what he thinks about you. Now you will see him procede to do hateful things to himself in order to try to win your love, and yet he will feel as though nothing he does is ever good enough for you, and he will hate himself inside, and do all the things that self-hate brings! Good luck, you’re gonna fucking need it! Steve

Response:

Glad to hear it! Thanks for the update.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I just wanted to thank everyone for the comments and personal relations to > this particular problem. > I’m not sure what happened.  It might have been when I pulled him out of the > pool last week and told him we weren’t going anymore if he wasn’t going to > even try that gave him the right kick in the ass or if he came about this > on his own (Personally I think it was the latter) but he has been doing > *way* more than excellent this week.  He’s dunking, front-floating, > listening and most importantly, he’s *trying* to learn. > I could give two shits if couldn’t swim yet, it was the total lack of even > trying and the whining about it all that was upsetting my wife and I so. > This week, however, is a complete turnaround. > In yesterday’s class he managed to front-float.  I haven’t seen him this > proud of himself in ages.  Of course, both my wife and I congradulated him > and told him how proud we were.  He’s still beaming about it! > At any rate, thank you all for your responses.  I wish I knew what helped, > but I suppose that in the long run all that matters is that his confidence > is there and he realizes that we just want him to try. > Regards, > Andrew

Response:

I just wanted to thank everyone for the comments and personal relations to this particular problem. I’m not sure what happened.  It might have been when I pulled him out of the pool last week and told him we weren’t going anymore if he wasn’t going to even try that gave him the right kick in the ass or if he came about this on his own (Personally I think it was the latter) but he has been doing *way* more than excellent this week.  He’s dunking, front-floating, listening and most importantly, he’s *trying* to learn. I could give two shits if couldn’t swim yet, it was the total lack of even trying and the whining about it all that was upsetting my wife and I so.   This week, however, is a complete turnaround. In yesterday’s class he managed to front-float.  I haven’t seen him this proud of himself in ages.  Of course, both my wife and I congradulated him and told him how proud we were.  He’s still beaming about it! At any rate, thank you all for your responses.  I wish I knew what helped, but I suppose that in the long run all that matters is that his confidence is there and he realizes that we just want him to try. Regards, Andrew

Response: