Pure Parents

Question:

>Very nice – Problem though on what to do with them while they are rewiring >and how to help them and how to keep them to be executed or send to prison >for life to do their rewiring there. What contribution is prison going to do >to the "rewiring process"?

Our present penal system works virtually totally against any benefit to the individual. That it why I prefer a stronger sense of community that can be used to draw them (adults/parents) in, to help find the good in them burried under all of the abuses that they experienced in their lives. For kids, they need environments that reflect that community. See, we *all* have a fundimental need to fit in.  It is only after we are convinced that we are broken/flawed/bad that we behave in that manner towards others. — Do not underestimate your abilities.  That is your boss’s job. It is your job to find ways around your boss’s roadblocks.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> [trimmed headers] >abused.  There are many wonderful, caring foster parents.  There are also >those who should not be working with children at all.  There are shades of >gray in between > This is equally true of parents in general, though. > As Free Spirit said, it might prove interesting to see the actuap > percentages of abusive parents in both foster care and among > general parents … although I wouldn’t expect there to be *that* > great of a difference because foster parents are selected from > the general population. > My parents were foster parents from the time that I was about 12. > Before I left home at 18, I got to know many of the other foster > parents in the area and found them to be pretty much at a typical > level of abusive as compared to the general population in the > area. > The screening process is not all that sevire. >treatment interventions over the long term.  It is such a tragedy to see >these wonderful children who have been permanently damaged by their parent’s >addictions. > The damage is not perminent.  The brain is not fixed, but is > plastic and is constantly making new connections.  Even people > who have major brain injuries will usually accomplish rewiring of > their brains so that other areas will take on the functions that > were accomplished by the areas destroyed by the injuries. > Now, during the rewiring process, they dend to organize their > lives so that they do not need to deal with the injured areas. > This can lead to some pretty interesting behaviors — interesting > to those who are aware, bizarre or troublesome to those who are > less aware. > I would suggest that even abusive parents are going through some > of the same rewiring processes and are exhibiting, too, some > interesting behaviors. > *How* both will rewire depends, to a large extent, on the > environment in which they find themselves.

Very nice – Problem though on what to do with them while they are rewiring and how to help them and how to keep them to be executed or send to prison for life to do their rewiring there. What contribution is prison going to do to the "rewiring process"? Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com – Still Only $9.95 – http://www.uncensored-news.com  With Servers In California, Texas And Virginia – The Worlds Uncensored News Source

Response:

[trimmed headers back to just aps] >That would explain why there are so many problems. The kids in foster care >had already problems in their lives – now they have a good chance to get >placed with a bad foster family. I thought they check the people out >thoroughly so they pick good parents who can give a good environment to >those kids.

In the US, there is some degree of cursory screening, but desparation to place kids in foster care often outweighs the ability to be selective. That’s one of the many reasons that I prefer to look at things along the lines of "community" to draw abusive parents in instead of further setting them appart. When they are drawn into a good, nurturing community, they are more prone to become more like the other members of the community and rediscover the good in themselves. — Do not underestimate your abilities.  That is your boss’s job. It is your job to find ways around your boss’s roadblocks.

Response:

[trimmed headers] >abused.  There are many wonderful, caring foster parents.  There are also >those who should not be working with children at all.  There are shades of >gray in between

This is equally true of parents in general, though. As Free Spirit said, it might prove interesting to see the actuap percentages of abusive parents in both foster care and among general parents … although I wouldn’t expect there to be *that* great of a difference because foster parents are selected from the general population. My parents were foster parents from the time that I was about 12. Before I left home at 18, I got to know many of the other foster parents in the area and found them to be pretty much at a typical level of abusive as compared to the general population in the area. The screening process is not all that sevire.   >treatment interventions over the long term.  It is such a tragedy to see >these wonderful children who have been permanently damaged by their parent’s >addictions.  

The damage is not perminent.  The brain is not fixed, but is plastic and is constantly making new connections.  Even people who have major brain injuries will usually accomplish rewiring of their brains so that other areas will take on the functions that were accomplished by the areas destroyed by the injuries. Now, during the rewiring process, they dend to organize their lives so that they do not need to deal with the injured areas. This can lead to some pretty interesting behaviors — interesting to those who are aware, bizarre or troublesome to those who are less aware. I would suggest that even abusive parents are going through some of the same rewiring processes and are exhibiting, too, some interesting behaviors. *How* both will rewire depends, to a large extent, on the environment in which they find themselves. — Do not underestimate your abilities.  That is your boss’s job. It is your job to find ways around your boss’s roadblocks.

Response:

Where I am, foster families are in shortage.  No one wants to take on that burden, so I guess (supply vs. demand) the standards are lowered to allow other families to participate in the program. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I am posting this in both aac and aps. In aac for the issues and here > > because our kids will probably have to deal with those children sooner > or > > later. > > "Broken Child" is the title of an HBO special – to find out times when > it is > > on again go to > > http://www.hbo.com/homepages/cmp/docs.shtml#broken > > It showed quite a few kids who never had and never will have a chance it > > seems. Kids who’s brains were basically fried due to mom taking > > drugs/alcohol during pregnancy. > > Kids who were abandoned at birth, or taken away from their parents and > then > > placed in foster care. > > Kids who were subsequently often abused in foster care. (I would be > really > > interested on how many kids get abused in foster care and what and who > > qualifies people to become a foster parent) > Since I lived in a foster home, I may be able to help you on this one. > I was 16 years old and finally left home.  Of course, children’s > services had to be involved.  We went to court and all.  I stayed with > my boyfriend and the court allowed his parents to become my foster > parents.  The foster mother had psychological problems she took out on > me in the form of emotional abuse. My foster father was a good guy who > held her down when she went to hit me.  I never actually got hit thanks > to him. All they had to do was fill out an application for children’s > services and they got a paycheck for having me there.  The kicker is, > though, that my case worker was hard to come by.  In the two years I > lived in foster care (the foster mother eventually threw me out on the > street), I saw my case worker twice outside of the six-month reviews in > court.  I was doing well in school so they assumed nothing was wrong. > On another note, my half-brother’s mom ended up getting arrested on drug > charges with a filthy home, etc.  Children services has been called on > her several times.  While she was in jail, my brother lived with our > father (one of my abusers as a child…on all record too).  So I find > out that children services is considering letting my brother live with > him, despite the sexual and physical abuse he inflicted on me.  I called > them and told them that I didn’t think it would be in my brother’s best > interest to live with either parent.  And it’s not.  So what do they > do?  Send him back to his junkie, filthy mother.  Yay for children > services (sarcasm).  An HBO documentary probably doesn’t even touch on > these things. > Sorry to hear about those problems. That show was in particular about cases > similar to yours. It only dealt with kids who where much younger (infant to > about 6). It did not go in detail into forster care. What struck me though > was that every case they reviewed had about the same story line that went > liket this > …. was born with problems because his mother was taking drugs/alcohol. > (S)he was taken away from his mother and placed into foster care. He was > with multiple foster families and was abused by some…. > Every one of those cases had "abused by foster family" in it. That is what > struck me. > That’s why I started asking questions about it. Up to now I assumed that you > had to be a damn special parent to be considered as foster parent. After all > you are supposed to fix the wrong that was done to a child. Guess I was > wrong – that’s what happens when you assume. > > Kids who never learned conflict resolving skills – who did not get any > love > > for a long time and therefore have none or poor social skills. > > Kids who for above reasons cannot control their temper and are violent > and > > are going to grow up to become violent adults > > Kids who suffer from post traumatic stress disorder because a sibling or > > parent(s) got their head blown off in front of them and have changed > > drastically since that incident. > > In other words "Broken Children". who will become "Broken Teens" and > "Broken > > Adults". > > Kids who frequent our schools. > > Do not get me wrong – I do believe that society deserves to be protected > > from individual. I do not want to live next door to a homicidal person > > either. But what to do with a person who has no control over > him/herself – > > who’s brain does not work like the "average persons" brain. Is it right > to > > lock them up like animals for a period of time with no results or > executing > > them. > > There are other people with disabilities. I would not want to have a > blind > > person driving a cab or flying the plane I am on or having to rely on > being > > rescued from a burning building by a paralyzed firefighter, nor would I > want > > to come in contact with a person infected with a deadly virus. > > At the same time I would not promote the necessity to execute above > people > > for their disabilities and  infections. People infected with the plague > or > > Leper used to get shot when they got to near to town and those rules > might > > have been justified then as there was no other defense against > infection. > > We are still doing the same in a way to kids/teens/adult who cannot > control > > their violence. We are also not doing much for prevention. There does > not > > seem to be any money for that. > > What is cheaper? Taking care right of kids or keeping someone in prison > for > > 30+ years? > > We are "fighting the war on drugs" for decades with no results. Except > > diminishing freedom for everyone and fat bank accounts for lawyers and a > > booming prison industry. > > Is it not time to figure out a new way and approach to deal with the > > pestilence of society – violence – drugs – executions. > > Our kids will have to live in the society we leave them! > > — > > Free Spirit > > Founding Father of the Church of Personal Freedom > > First Knight of the Knights of Personal Freedom.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Free Spirit > > Founding Father of the Church of Personal Freedom > > First Knight of the Knights of Personal Freedom. > Looks like it would have been an interesting programme to watch.  I’m in > NZ > so didn’t see it.  I think the problems are similar the world over.  Its > difficult to try to work out the solution.  One of the things you > mentioned/asked was "what qualifications are needed to be a foster parent" > I can tell you now that we have a boarder/foster teenager living with us, > a > girl who is 16.  She has had some rough things happen to her.  Anyway, she > gets an independant youth allowance of NZ$120 a week, and pays us NZ$75 a > week in board.  She chose the amount I would have been happy with $60. > Anyway to the point.  The welfare people checked that she was in fact > staying with us, and the school that she attends is the same as the school > my children attend, so we are known to the school.  But nobody from the > welfare authority checked us out at all.  We could have been anybody as > far > as they were concerned. > Annemarie > That would explain why there are so many problems. The kids in foster care > had already problems in their lives – now they have a good chance to get > placed with a bad foster family. I thought they check the people out > thoroughly so they pick good parents who can give a good environment to > those kids. > — > Free Spirit > Founding Father of the Church of Personal Freedom > First Knight of the Knights of Personal Freedom.

Well in New Zealand for over 16 year olds they do not,  the 16 year old does the choosing.   For under 16 year olds they do have a screening programme, but I have no idea how extensive it is. Annemarie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sorry to hear about those problems. That show was in particular about cases > similar to yours. It only dealt with kids who where much younger (infant to > about 6). It did not go in detail into forster care. What struck me though > was that every case they reviewed had about the same story line that went > liket this > …. was born with problems because his mother was taking drugs/alcohol. > (S)he was taken away from his mother and placed into foster care. He was > with multiple foster families and was abused by some…. > Every one of those cases had "abused by foster family" in it. That is what > struck me. > That’s why I started asking questions about it. Up to now I assumed that you > had to be a damn special parent to be considered as foster parent. After all > you are supposed to fix the wrong that was done to a child. Guess I was > wrong – that’s what happens when you assume.

I am sure that they picked those cases in order to present a certain Point of view, perhaps including a slant that children in foster care can become abused.  There are many wonderful, caring foster parents.  There are also those who should not be working with children at all.  There are shades of gray in between like many families in Florida where there is a severe shortage of families as opposed to children needing placement.  If you were licensed for four children but had 11 placed with you and several of them were presenting you with acting out problems would you be able to care appropriately for them all?  I doubt that I could, but I doubt that I could be a foster parent, so I’m not going there. In just about any news story there is more information than presented in the limited venue offered, be it print, audio or video media.  The presenter has certain biases, the story has one or more points which they wish to make to the audience "market" in the limited time frame given, and the hearer also has their own biases and may miss parts of the information presented.  I used to watch documentaries and information shows like 60 minutes and 20/20. Eventually I became more able to recognize those biases and information gaps and grew increasingly cynical about the ability of the media to fairly and totally present the full picture on an item so that the listener could develop an informed opinion.  I now rarely watch them due to my increased dissatisfaction. There is a great deal more to foster care than apparently was presented in the show you saw.  There is a great deal about children who were exposed to drugs in utero.  They have very poor impulse control, are often developmentally delayed [read:  retarded], & many are given to fits of rage which are unpredictable and are often not seen coming at all.  These children become increasingly challenging to provide an adequate and safe home environment for as they grow and pass through various developmental stages.  They express their drug exposure in different ways, depending on which part[s] of the brain were effected by the drugs.  I have yet to see two children born crack exposed who presented with the same cluster of problems, although they can be similar.  I personally think that these crack exposed children are more difficult to deal with effectively than even those with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder as they respond so poorly to most treatment interventions over the long term.  It is such a tragedy to see these wonderful children who have been permanently damaged by their parent’s addictions.  They seem to have such little chance of real success and fulfillment in life. -Aula

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sorry to hear about those problems. That show was in particular about > cases > similar to yours. It only dealt with kids who where much younger (infant > to > about 6). It did not go in detail into forster care. What struck me though > was that every case they reviewed had about the same story line that went > liket this > …. was born with problems because his mother was taking drugs/alcohol. > (S)he was taken away from his mother and placed into foster care. He was > with multiple foster families and was abused by some…. > Every one of those cases had "abused by foster family" in it. That is what > struck me. > That’s why I started asking questions about it. Up to now I assumed that > you > had to be a damn special parent to be considered as foster parent. After > all > you are supposed to fix the wrong that was done to a child. Guess I was > wrong – that’s what happens when you assume. > I am sure that they picked those cases in order to present a certain Point > of view, perhaps including a slant that children in foster care can become > abused.

If it was then very subliminal. They never said that foster care was bad only that each of the kids were abused in foster care. I understand that there always are some rotten apples. Just want to know if there are a few rotten apples in a good barrel or if tha barrel is rotten with a few good apples. Any statistics anyone in the line of. xx% of parents abuse their kids, yy% of foster parents abuse foster kids. That would be intersting to see if the system is helping or adding to the damage. Without numbers like that all you can do is guess. There are many wonderful, caring foster parents.  There are also > those who should not be working with children at all.  There are shades of > gray in between like many families in Florida where there is a severe > shortage of families as opposed to children needing placement.  If you were > licensed for four children but had 11 placed with you and several of them > were presenting you with acting out problems would you be able to care > appropriately for them all?  I doubt that I could, but I doubt that I could > be a foster parent, so I’m not going there.

So any ideas on how to fix that problem. The only way I could care for 11 kids is quit working and do nothing but take care of the kids. Kind of running a day and night care center. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In just about any news story there is more information than presented in the > limited venue offered, be it print, audio or video media.  The presenter has > certain biases, the story has one or more points which they wish to make to > the audience "market" in the limited time frame given, and the hearer also > has their own biases and may miss parts of the information presented.  I > used to watch documentaries and information shows like 60 minutes and 20/20. > Eventually I became more able to recognize those biases and information gaps > and grew increasingly cynical about the ability of the media to fairly and > totally present the full picture on an item so that the listener could > develop an informed opinion.  I now rarely watch them due to my increased > dissatisfaction.

Agree with you on that – found that to be true too. Watch tv rarely myself and when then usualy docomentaries like the Learning or Discovery Channel, Some HBO "under cover" 60 minutes and 20/20 rarely. Dennis Miller every friday. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There is a great deal more to foster care than apparently was presented in > the show you saw.  There is a great deal about children who were exposed to > drugs in utero.  They have very poor impulse control, are often > developmentally delayed [read:  retarded], & many are given to fits of rage > which are unpredictable and are often not seen coming at all.  These > children become increasingly challenging to provide an adequate and safe > home environment for as they grow and pass through various developmental > stages.  They express their drug exposure in different ways, depending on > which part[s] of the brain were effected by the drugs.  I have yet to see > two children born crack exposed who presented with the same cluster of > problems, although they can be similar.  I personally think that these crack > exposed children are more difficult to deal with effectively than even those > with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder as they respond so poorly to most > treatment interventions over the long term.  It is such a tragedy to see > these wonderful children who have been permanently damaged by their parent’s > addictions.  They seem to have such little chance of real success and > fulfillment in life.

That is exactly what that special was about. It also said that those kids most likely will wind up in jail. Does not seem right to me to put someone in a place like jail where there is no chance for improving if (s)he never had a chance. Or even worse execute them. > -Aula

– Free Spirit Founding Father of the Church of Personal Freedom First Knight of the Knights of Personal Freedom.>

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am posting this in both aac and aps. In aac for the issues and here > because our kids will probably have to deal with those children sooner or > later. > "Broken Child" is the title of an HBO special – to find out times when it is > on again go to > http://www.hbo.com/homepages/cmp/docs.shtml#broken > It showed quite a few kids who never had and never will have a chance it > seems. Kids who’s brains were basically fried due to mom taking > drugs/alcohol during pregnancy. > Kids who were abandoned at birth, or taken away from their parents and then > placed in foster care. > Kids who were subsequently often abused in foster care. (I would be really > interested on how many kids get abused in foster care and what and who > qualifies people to become a foster parent)

Since I lived in a foster home, I may be able to help you on this one. I was 16 years old and finally left home.  Of course, children’s services had to be involved.  We went to court and all.  I stayed with my boyfriend and the court allowed his parents to become my foster parents.  The foster mother had psychological problems she took out on me in the form of emotional abuse. My foster father was a good guy who held her down when she went to hit me.  I never actually got hit thanks to him. All they had to do was fill out an application for children’s services and they got a paycheck for having me there.  The kicker is, though, that my case worker was hard to come by.  In the two years I lived in foster care (the foster mother eventually threw me out on the street), I saw my case worker twice outside of the six-month reviews in court.  I was doing well in school so they assumed nothing was wrong. On another note, my half-brother’s mom ended up getting arrested on drug charges with a filthy home, etc.  Children services has been called on her several times.  While she was in jail, my brother lived with our father (one of my abusers as a child…on all record too).  So I find out that children services is considering letting my brother live with him, despite the sexual and physical abuse he inflicted on me.  I called them and told them that I didn’t think it would be in my brother’s best interest to live with either parent.  And it’s not.  So what do they do?  Send him back to his junkie, filthy mother.  Yay for children services (sarcasm).  An HBO documentary probably doesn’t even touch on these things. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Kids who never learned conflict resolving skills – who did not get any love > for a long time and therefore have none or poor social skills. > Kids who for above reasons cannot control their temper and are violent and > are going to grow up to become violent adults > Kids who suffer from post traumatic stress disorder because a sibling or > parent(s) got their head blown off in front of them and have changed > drastically since that incident. > In other words "Broken Children". who will become "Broken Teens" and "Broken > Adults". > Kids who frequent our schools. > Do not get me wrong – I do believe that society deserves to be protected > from individual. I do not want to live next door to a homicidal person > either. But what to do with a person who has no control over him/herself – > who’s brain does not work like the "average persons" brain. Is it right to > lock them up like animals for a period of time with no results or executing > them. > There are other people with disabilities. I would not want to have a blind > person driving a cab or flying the plane I am on or having to rely on being > rescued from a burning building by a paralyzed firefighter, nor would I want > to come in contact with a person infected with a deadly virus. > At the same time I would not promote the necessity to execute above people > for their disabilities and  infections. People infected with the plague or > Leper used to get shot when they got to near to town and those rules might > have been justified then as there was no other defense against infection. > We are still doing the same in a way to kids/teens/adult who cannot control > their violence. We are also not doing much for prevention. There does not > seem to be any money for that. > What is cheaper? Taking care right of kids or keeping someone in prison for > 30+ years? > We are "fighting the war on drugs" for decades with no results. Except > diminishing freedom for everyone and fat bank accounts for lawyers and a > booming prison industry. > Is it not time to figure out a new way and approach to deal with the > pestilence of society – violence – drugs – executions. > Our kids will have to live in the society we leave them! > — > Free Spirit > Founding Father of the Church of Personal Freedom > First Knight of the Knights of Personal Freedom.

Response:

> Free Spirit > Founding Father of the Church of Personal Freedom > First Knight of the Knights of Personal Freedom.

Looks like it would have been an interesting programme to watch.  I’m in NZ so didn’t see it.  I think the problems are similar the world over.  Its difficult to try to work out the solution.  One of the things you mentioned/asked was "what qualifications are needed to be a foster parent" I can tell you now that we have a boarder/foster teenager living with us, a girl who is 16.  She has had some rough things happen to her.  Anyway, she gets an independant youth allowance of NZ$120 a week, and pays us NZ$75 a week in board.  She chose the amount I would have been happy with $60. Anyway to the point.  The welfare people checked that she was in fact staying with us, and the school that she attends is the same as the school my children attend, so we are known to the school.  But nobody from the welfare authority checked us out at all.  We could have been anybody as far as they were concerned. Annemarie

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Free Spirit > Founding Father of the Church of Personal Freedom > First Knight of the Knights of Personal Freedom. > Looks like it would have been an interesting programme to watch.  I’m in NZ > so didn’t see it.  I think the problems are similar the world over.  Its > difficult to try to work out the solution.  One of the things you > mentioned/asked was "what qualifications are needed to be a foster parent" > I can tell you now that we have a boarder/foster teenager living with us, a > girl who is 16.  She has had some rough things happen to her.  Anyway, she > gets an independant youth allowance of NZ$120 a week, and pays us NZ$75 a > week in board.  She chose the amount I would have been happy with $60. > Anyway to the point.  The welfare people checked that she was in fact > staying with us, and the school that she attends is the same as the school > my children attend, so we are known to the school.  But nobody from the > welfare authority checked us out at all.  We could have been anybody as far > as they were concerned. > Annemarie

That would explain why there are so many problems. The kids in foster care had already problems in their lives – now they have a good chance to get placed with a bad foster family. I thought they check the people out thoroughly so they pick good parents who can give a good environment to those kids. — Free Spirit Founding Father of the Church of Personal Freedom First Knight of the Knights of Personal Freedom.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am posting this in both aac and aps. In aac for the issues and here > because our kids will probably have to deal with those children sooner or > later. > "Broken Child" is the title of an HBO special – to find out times when it is > on again go to > http://www.hbo.com/homepages/cmp/docs.shtml#broken > It showed quite a few kids who never had and never will have a chance it > seems. Kids who’s brains were basically fried due to mom taking > drugs/alcohol during pregnancy. > Kids who were abandoned at birth, or taken away from their parents and then > placed in foster care. > Kids who were subsequently often abused in foster care. (I would be really > interested on how many kids get abused in foster care and what and who > qualifies people to become a foster parent) > Since I lived in a foster home, I may be able to help you on this one. > I was 16 years old and finally left home.  Of course, children’s > services had to be involved.  We went to court and all.  I stayed with > my boyfriend and the court allowed his parents to become my foster > parents.  The foster mother had psychological problems she took out on > me in the form of emotional abuse. My foster father was a good guy who > held her down when she went to hit me.  I never actually got hit thanks > to him. All they had to do was fill out an application for children’s > services and they got a paycheck for having me there.  The kicker is, > though, that my case worker was hard to come by.  In the two years I > lived in foster care (the foster mother eventually threw me out on the > street), I saw my case worker twice outside of the six-month reviews in > court.  I was doing well in school so they assumed nothing was wrong. > On another note, my half-brother’s mom ended up getting arrested on drug > charges with a filthy home, etc.  Children services has been called on > her several times.  While she was in jail, my brother lived with our > father (one of my abusers as a child…on all record too).  So I find > out that children services is considering letting my brother live with > him, despite the sexual and physical abuse he inflicted on me.  I called > them and told them that I didn’t think it would be in my brother’s best > interest to live with either parent.  And it’s not.  So what do they > do?  Send him back to his junkie, filthy mother.  Yay for children > services (sarcasm).  An HBO documentary probably doesn’t even touch on > these things.

Sorry to hear about those problems. That show was in particular about cases similar to yours. It only dealt with kids who where much younger (infant to about 6). It did not go in detail into forster care. What struck me though was that every case they reviewed had about the same story line that went liket this …. was born with problems because his mother was taking drugs/alcohol. (S)he was taken away from his mother and placed into foster care. He was with multiple foster families and was abused by some…. Every one of those cases had "abused by foster family" in it. That is what struck me. That’s why I started asking questions about it. Up to now I assumed that you had to be a damn special parent to be considered as foster parent. After all you are supposed to fix the wrong that was done to a child. Guess I was wrong – that’s what happens when you assume. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Kids who never learned conflict resolving skills – who did not get any love > for a long time and therefore have none or poor social skills. > Kids who for above reasons cannot control their temper and are violent and > are going to grow up to become violent adults > Kids who suffer from post traumatic stress disorder because a sibling or > parent(s) got their head blown off in front of them and have changed > drastically since that incident. > In other words "Broken Children". who will become "Broken Teens" and "Broken > Adults". > Kids who frequent our schools. > Do not get me wrong – I do believe that society deserves to be protected > from individual. I do not want to live next door to a homicidal person > either. But what to do with a person who has no control over him/herself – > who’s brain does not work like the "average persons" brain. Is it right to > lock them up like animals for a period of time with no results or executing > them. > There are other people with disabilities. I would not want to have a blind > person driving a cab or flying the plane I am on or having to rely on being > rescued from a burning building by a paralyzed firefighter, nor would I want > to come in contact with a person infected with a deadly virus. > At the same time I would not promote the necessity to execute above people > for their disabilities and  infections. People infected with the plague or > Leper used to get shot when they got to near to town and those rules might > have been justified then as there was no other defense against infection. > We are still doing the same in a way to kids/teens/adult who cannot control > their violence. We are also not doing much for prevention. There does not > seem to be any money for that. > What is cheaper? Taking care right of kids or keeping someone in prison for > 30+ years? > We are "fighting the war on drugs" for decades with no results. Except > diminishing freedom for everyone and fat bank accounts for lawyers and a > booming prison industry. > Is it not time to figure out a new way and approach to deal with the > pestilence of society – violence – drugs – executions. > Our kids will have to live in the society we leave them! > — > Free Spirit > Founding Father of the Church of Personal Freedom > First Knight of the Knights of Personal Freedom.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > Free Spirit > > > Founding Father of the Church of Personal Freedom > > > First Knight of the Knights of Personal Freedom. > > Looks like it would have been an interesting programme to watch.  I’m in > NZ > > so didn’t see it.  I think the problems are similar the world over. Its > > difficult to try to work out the solution.  One of the things you > > mentioned/asked was "what qualifications are needed to be a foster > parent" > > I can tell you now that we have a boarder/foster teenager living with > us, > a > > girl who is 16.  She has had some rough things happen to her.  Anyway, > she > > gets an independant youth allowance of NZ$120 a week, and pays us NZ$75 > a > > week in board.  She chose the amount I would have been happy with $60. > > Anyway to the point.  The welfare people checked that she was in fact > > staying with us, and the school that she attends is the same as the > school > > my children attend, so we are known to the school.  But nobody from the > > welfare authority checked us out at all.  We could have been anybody as > far > > as they were concerned. > > Annemarie > That would explain why there are so many problems. The kids in foster care > had already problems in their lives – now they have a good chance to get > placed with a bad foster family. I thought they check the people out > thoroughly so they pick good parents who can give a good environment to > those kids. > — > Free Spirit > Founding Father of the Church of Personal Freedom > First Knight of the Knights of Personal Freedom. > Well in New Zealand for over 16 year olds they do not,  the 16 year old does > the choosing.   For under 16 year olds they do have a screening programme, > but I have no idea how extensive it is. > Annemarie

Thank you

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It showed quite a few kids who never had and never will have a chance it > seems. Kids who’s brains were basically fried due to mom taking > drugs/alcohol during pregnancy. > <<big snippage of examples>> > In other words "Broken Children". who will become "Broken Teens" and > "Broken > Adults". > Do not get me wrong – I do believe that society deserves to be protected > from individual. I do not want to live next door to a homicidal person > either. But what to do with a person who has no control over him/herself – > who’s brain does not work like the "average persons" brain. Is it right to > lock them up like animals for a period of time with no results or > executing > them. > There are other people with disabilities. I would not want to have a blind > person driving a cab or flying the plane I am on or having to rely on > being > rescued from a burning building by a paralyzed firefighter, nor would I > want > to come in contact with a person infected with a deadly virus. > At the same time I would not promote the necessity to execute above people > for their disabilities and  infections. People infected with the plague or > Leper used to get shot when they got to near to town and those rules might > have been justified then as there was no other defense against infection. > We are still doing the same in a way to kids/teens/adult who cannot > control > their violence. We are also not doing much for prevention. There does not > seem to be any money for that. > What is cheaper? Taking care right of kids or keeping someone in prison > for > 30+ years? > We are "fighting the war on drugs" for decades with no results. Except > diminishing freedom for everyone and fat bank accounts for lawyers and a > booming prison industry. > Is it not time to figure out a new way and approach to deal with the > pestilence of society – violence – drugs – executions. > Our kids will have to live in the society we leave them! > — > I appreciate you mentioning this show to us.   I rarely watch TV any more > and would have missed it [might, anyway, if I forget].  I work with these > kids and understand the frustrations, concerns, etc., that you are > expressing.  I get so frustrated when yet another crack baby is referred to > us because they have no impulse control and so on.  Gee, what a surprise. > What a surprise that they are in Foster Care, too, and that no one is > stepping forward to adopt them.  Well, I’m getting towards one of my soap > boxes and I will back away because I really had a different reason for > responding to your post.

May I ask where you are working? > You mention that there are no efforts at prevention.  I can share with you > that, in the US, there are a number of programs working to prevent child > abuse of very young children, enhance parenting skills of parents who are > identified as at risk to abuse, and diminish the number of at risk births. > These programs include Healthy Start [mainly for pregnant women] and a > program which apparently has different names around the country but is > called Healthy Families in Florida.  Healthy Families is in about 30 states > now and was started in Hawaii.  This program works with women giving birth > in areas where there are statistically higher incidents of abuse reports. > The family support workers are in the family home sometimes up through the > child’s fifth birthday, teaching parenting skills from baby washing to > consistent limit setting, etc.  The program has reportedly earned a very > high abuse prevention rate, but I can’t recall the percentages off hand.

Why just in areas of high percentage of abuse? Why not everywhere? I do not think that those programs go far enough. I also think that more could be done to avoid those problems in the first place. The whole attitude towards drugs should be rethought. The whole war on drugs is not working. I am not for drugs or alcohol. You won’t get a beer in my house. I do not buy it. But I do not believe in treating drugs as a crime. The only way you will reduce the use of drugs is by taking the profit out of it. Take the money out of drugs and you will stop the spread of drugs. Give existing drug addicts the drugs the need for free and give them an incentive to reduce their usage. No adict would have to push drugs on other people and kids no more to "support the habit" nor would she have to steal or prostitute. Give them free medical treatment for their drug problem and treat it as a decease. The APA has classified now drug abuse as a chronic mental disorder – treat it as such. This should reduce drug related violence and the availability of drugs. The reason why kids can buy drugs easily is – because there is a lof of profit in selling them. Regarding programs for pregnant woman with or without problems. As you know I grew up in Austria. I do not want to claim that I am an expert on how things are there now – but I know very well how they were when we grew up. Just shortly for those who do not know. Austria is a democratic republic similar to the US with basically the some government structure and a similar constitution. The main differences in the constitution are that we do not have the right to bear arms – therefore whe have the right to an education – any education you are capable and willing of achieving and the right to health care. Children are considered very important. Abortion rules are pretty much the same. If you decide to have the baby you are to follow some rules. You have to go to well baby check ups during the pregnancy. Those are free. If you fail to go you do not get the "baby money" that you get at the time of birth. Furthermore you can get in trouble with Social Services for child abuse for not going to the check ups. If you are taking drugs during the pregnancy your unborn baby will be hospitalized to be treated. That means you have to go along. That were the rules. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You also raise a very serious concern in that our children will have to deal > with these "broken" children.  I hate to think of my young son having to do > so, but life is not likely to change that.  We also had to learn how to do > so, as have previous generations, although our broken children may well have > been the mentally ill and the developmentally delayed more than those whom > you describe.  But, each generation has members who are socially misfit, who > have not been parented as well as they ought, who did not have an even > chance from birth due to conditions with which they were born.  Each > generation develops their own ways of dealing, often based on those > preceding them.  The treatment of the mentally ill has improved over the > last 50 years, although there is a great deal that could still be done [and > I hope will be done].  The treatment of the developmentally disabled is > another discussion and I am not certain that their treatment has improved, > but merely changed, depending on the disability.

I know that there always will be "misfits" and that we have to deal with them. I just think we are not doing a good job at it. We concentrate too much on punishing than on resolving the problem. Punishing a blind man for being blind does not resolve anything. Giving him a cane and teaching him how to live with his problem – now you are talking. Now that it becomes more and more evident that the brains of a lot of carier criminals work differently (They can prove that with MRI) we should focus on finding remedies. Our lock up and execute policies just don’t seem to do the trick. How many con’s come out of prison reformed and how many are worse? we all know the statistic. > The raw numbers of children who have not been taught appropriate anger > management, impulse control skills, or were drug exposed in utero, is > probably much higher than when I was a child some 40 years ago.  The drain > on society’s resources is thereby that much greater.  We seem to expect, as > a society, that the government will solve these problems, too, which places > a great burden on "others" to solve what are actually in effect "our" > problems, and we complain about the amount we have to pay in taxes to fund > these programs.  These children are "our" problem, not the government’s. > We, as a society, need to find ways to assist pre-parents in developing the > best parenting techniques around, supporting those who end up in challenging > parenting situations,

Heard from my nephews in austria they are having mandatory parenting classes in highschool now as part of social and citizen ed (don’t know if I translate that right. This is the class where you learn the laws, the political system, what is considered acceptable in the society and now parenting too including diaper changing etc) ? and be ready with a more rapid response to those who > violate the rules.  How many juveniles would change their choices if the > legal consequences were close enough in time for them to stop feeling like > they are "getting away" with stuff?  I don’t know, but I believe that more > immediate consequences would go quite a way to improving the impulse control > and anger management of a significant number of individuals.

What kind of response do you have in mind? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> While there > are mental illnesses that compromise an individual’s ability to effectively > control impulses [which can include anger management], not all individuals > who appear to have problems with those areas require medication in order to > control the condition.  Many of them simply need to learn new behavioral > patterns and problem solving skills and need to understand that they do not > like the consequences of having poor impulse control and anger

… read more »

Response:

I am posting this in both aac and aps. In aac for the issues and here because our kids will probably have to deal with those children sooner or later. "Broken Child" is the title of an HBO special – to find out times when it is on again go to http://www.hbo.com/homepages/cmp/docs.shtml#broken It showed quite a few kids who never had and never will have a chance it seems. Kids who’s brains were basically fried due to mom taking drugs/alcohol during pregnancy. Kids who were abandoned at birth, or taken away from their parents and then placed in foster care. Kids who were subsequently often abused in foster care. (I would be really interested on how many kids get abused in foster care and what and who qualifies people to become a foster parent) Kids who never learned conflict resolving skills – who did not get any love for a long time and therefore have none or poor social skills. Kids who for above reasons cannot control their temper and are violent and are going to grow up to become violent adults Kids who suffer from post traumatic stress disorder because a sibling or parent(s) got their head blown off in front of them and have changed drastically since that incident. In other words "Broken Children". who will become "Broken Teens" and "Broken Adults". Kids who frequent our schools. Do not get me wrong – I do believe that society deserves to be protected from individual. I do not want to live next door to a homicidal person either. But what to do with a person who has no control over him/herself – who’s brain does not work like the "average persons" brain. Is it right to lock them up like animals for a period of time with no results or executing them. There are other people with disabilities. I would not want to have a blind person driving a cab or flying the plane I am on or having to rely on being rescued from a burning building by a paralyzed firefighter, nor would I want to come in contact with a person infected with a deadly virus. At the same time I would not promote the necessity to execute above people for their disabilities and  infections. People infected with the plague or Leper used to get shot when they got to near to town and those rules might have been justified then as there was no other defense against infection. We are still doing the same in a way to kids/teens/adult who cannot control their violence. We are also not doing much for prevention. There does not seem to be any money for that. What is cheaper? Taking care right of kids or keeping someone in prison for 30+ years? We are "fighting the war on drugs" for decades with no results. Except diminishing freedom for everyone and fat bank accounts for lawyers and a booming prison industry. Is it not time to figure out a new way and approach to deal with the pestilence of society – violence – drugs – executions. Our kids will have to live in the society we leave them! — Free Spirit Founding Father of the Church of Personal Freedom First Knight of the Knights of Personal Freedom.

Response:

> It showed quite a few kids who never had and never will have a chance it > seems. Kids who’s brains were basically fried due to mom taking > drugs/alcohol during pregnancy.

<<big snippage of examples>> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In other words "Broken Children". who will become "Broken Teens" and "Broken > Adults". > Do not get me wrong – I do believe that society deserves to be protected > from individual. I do not want to live next door to a homicidal person > either. But what to do with a person who has no control over him/herself – > who’s brain does not work like the "average persons" brain. Is it right to > lock them up like animals for a period of time with no results or executing > them. > There are other people with disabilities. I would not want to have a blind > person driving a cab or flying the plane I am on or having to rely on being > rescued from a burning building by a paralyzed firefighter, nor would I want > to come in contact with a person infected with a deadly virus. > At the same time I would not promote the necessity to execute above people > for their disabilities and  infections. People infected with the plague or > Leper used to get shot when they got to near to town and those rules might > have been justified then as there was no other defense against infection. > We are still doing the same in a way to kids/teens/adult who cannot control > their violence. We are also not doing much for prevention. There does not > seem to be any money for that. > What is cheaper? Taking care right of kids or keeping someone in prison for > 30+ years? > We are "fighting the war on drugs" for decades with no results. Except > diminishing freedom for everyone and fat bank accounts for lawyers and a > booming prison industry. > Is it not time to figure out a new way and approach to deal with the > pestilence of society – violence – drugs – executions. > Our kids will have to live in the society we leave them! > —

I appreciate you mentioning this show to us.   I rarely watch TV any more and would have missed it [might, anyway, if I forget].  I work with these kids and understand the frustrations, concerns, etc., that you are expressing.  I get so frustrated when yet another crack baby is referred to us because they have no impulse control and so on.  Gee, what a surprise. What a surprise that they are in Foster Care, too, and that no one is stepping forward to adopt them.  Well, I’m getting towards one of my soap boxes and I will back away because I really had a different reason for responding to your post. You mention that there are no efforts at prevention.  I can share with you that, in the US, there are a number of programs working to prevent child abuse of very young children, enhance parenting skills of parents who are identified as at risk to abuse, and diminish the number of at risk births. These programs include Healthy Start [mainly for pregnant women] and a program which apparently has different names around the country but is called Healthy Families in Florida.  Healthy Families is in about 30 states now and was started in Hawaii.  This program works with women giving birth in areas where there are statistically higher incidents of abuse reports. The family support workers are in the family home sometimes up through the child’s fifth birthday, teaching parenting skills from baby washing to consistent limit setting, etc.  The program has reportedly earned a very high abuse prevention rate, but I can’t recall the percentages off hand. You also raise a very serious concern in that our children will have to deal with these "broken" children.  I hate to think of my young son having to do so, but life is not likely to change that.  We also had to learn how to do so, as have previous generations, although our broken children may well have been the mentally ill and the developmentally delayed more than those whom you describe.  But, each generation has members who are socially misfit, who have not been parented as well as they ought, who did not have an even chance from birth due to conditions with which they were born.  Each generation develops their own ways of dealing, often based on those preceding them.  The treatment of the mentally ill has improved over the last 50 years, although there is a great deal that could still be done [and I hope will be done].  The treatment of the developmentally disabled is another discussion and I am not certain that their treatment has improved, but merely changed, depending on the disability. The raw numbers of children who have not been taught appropriate anger management, impulse control skills, or were drug exposed in utero, is probably much higher than when I was a child some 40 years ago.  The drain on society’s resources is thereby that much greater.  We seem to expect, as a society, that the government will solve these problems, too, which places a great burden on "others" to solve what are actually in effect "our" problems, and we complain about the amount we have to pay in taxes to fund these programs.  These children are "our" problem, not the government’s. We, as a society, need to find ways to assist pre-parents in developing the best parenting techniques around, supporting those who end up in challenging parenting situations, and be ready with a more rapid response to those who violate the rules.  How many juveniles would change their choices if the legal consequences were close enough in time for them to stop feeling like they are "getting away" with stuff?  I don’t know, but I believe that more immediate consequences would go quite a way to improving the impulse control and anger management of a significant number of individuals.  While there are mental illnesses that compromise an individual’s ability to effectively control impulses [which can include anger management], not all individuals who appear to have problems with those areas require medication in order to control the condition.  Many of them simply need to learn new behavioral patterns and problem solving skills and need to understand that they do not like the consequences of having poor impulse control and anger management skills. I fear I am starting to ramble due to the lateness of the hour clouding my ability to think straight.  I am looking forward to reading others’ rthoguhts. -Aula

Response: