Pure Parents

Question:

> child and tends to cry for seemingly meaningless reasons.  The violence when > angry seems to be an inherited trait as his father is the same way.

Not inherited, learned.  His father is the same way; that’s all you need to know.  He learned it from his father.  That’s where your job must begin. > I am concerned that this will become even worse as he grows older as it seems > to be worse now than even a year ago.

And will continue to get worse, as long as his father demonstrates this as being appropriate behavior.  His father must stop behaving this way, and then you can work on the kid. Mike — From Seattle, WA – Seahawks, cinema, science and more at http://kohary.simplenet.com Seahawks:   http://kohary.simplenet.com/hawks.htm Cinema:     http://kohary.simplenet.com/movies.htm Science:    http://kohary.simplenet.com/science.htm

Response:

>> child and tends to cry for seemingly meaningless reasons.  The violence when > angry seems to be an inherited trait as his father is the same way. >Not inherited, learned.  His father is the same way; that’s all you need >to know.  He learned it from his father.  That’s where your job must >begin.

Guess I’ve been quiet long enough. There ARE some neurological conditions which can cause rage, seemingly out of nowhere. Most that can affect children do seem to have a genetic component. Among these would be bipolar disorder, the combination  of Tourette Syndrome/Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder/ADHD, and temporal lobe epilepsy. If there is the possibly of an inherited neurobiological condition, then you may want to consult a pediatric neurologicst or a child psychiatrist. There are some medications that, along with behavior modification techniques and therapy, can make a big difference. I have no idea if the child in this thread falls into one of these categories, or a similar one. Obviously for the vast majority of children, the issue is a behavioral one. But there is a small minority for whom it can also be neurobiological. I know. I have an adopted son diagnosed with the triad of TS/OCD/ADHD, plus BP. I too wasn’t aware that there could be neurological issues that could cause this, but I’ve learned a lot since facing the issue and my own son’s diagnosis. This is definitely not common, but it is a possibility. And differential diagnoses are extremely hard for doctors to make at an age as young as 4. Vicki H.

Response:

> (I would recommend reading or attending parenting classes based on the work > of Rudolf Dreikurs.

Thanks, I’ll look into it. > HOWEVER, the child will need to be allowed to exercise power in appropriate > ways. > Does he get to make choices during the rest of life? i.e. Does he get to > pick out the clothes he wears for a day? Do you ask him to pick the > vegetable for dinner? (Note: give choices, with limits/boundaries: try: > "Would you prefer peas or carrots?" If the answer is "Donuts", remind that > "Donuts are not one of your choices.

I ask him if he wants Cheerios or Corn Flakes for breakfast.  He says Cheerios and when I set the bowl on the table he throws a fit because he wants Corn Flakes.  I give him choices as often as is reasonable (his brother gets to pick the vegetable part of the time) but he doesn’t always stick to them.  Three days in a row he requested to wear a particular shirt that was in the dirty clothes.  On the fourth day it was clean and I set it out for him to wear.  When he saw it he refused to put it on because it was not what he wanted to wear.

Response:

It’s great to see that you know about offering choices! (So many parents find it a difficult concept to even come up with.) Well, again, I’m not familiar with all the events surrounding your relationship with your child, and I’m not offering ‘cook book’ advice (i.e. for this problem, use this solution). I’m trying to pass along my experience with Dreikursian child raising, and how it helps me deal with similar situations. Remembering that we are hoping to raise future adults (they aren’t their yet, that’s why the make some poor choices of behavior along the way) who act appropriately. If at the age of 21, your son went to a restaurant, ordered scrambled eggs, then when they arrived demanded over-easy instead, the behavior would be ridiculous. So in a ’scaled-down’ way, this situation is actually quite analogous, and needs to be modified. This really looks like a power struggle. (Ask yourself, do you feel angry as your response to his behavior. If you do, he’d getting what he wants, and you ARE in a power struggle.) The way out of a power struggle is to let go of the opposite end of the tug-of-war rope. So, let’s look at breakfast. You’ve given him a reasonable set of options (2 cereals to pick from). This will give him an opportunity to excise power in a positive way. A great step 1! However, he seems to want to give you an even bigger indicator that HE can be the one who makes the other person jump through all the hoops. So, here’s my suggestion: In the evening, or some other peaceful time, point out, in a very matter-of-fact way (with "I" rather than "You" messages), that breakfast did not go well (rather than try to modify ALL the misbehaviors at once, pick one to focus on. You’ll probably find that the others will then go away on their own, because they are rooted in the same cause(s)). "I really had trouble with breakfast this morning. I offered what I felt was a reasonable set of choices. I think though, that my actions in the past have misled you. I may have you believing that I am some sort of short-order cook. I am not. I think it is very reasonable for me to offer 2 things for breakfast, and let you pick the one you want. However, here is where I’m going to change. The first thing you pick, is what you will get. If you say one thing, then change your mind, I will not get you the other. You can either eat what you picked, or choose to eat nothing. I’m willing to keep your breakfast out until there’s 10 minutes before school time. Then I’ll put it away, assuming you aren’t interested in eating it." The point you are trying to make, is that "I’m not your personal servant. I love you, and care about you, but I’m not at your beck and call." So, the next day, you are sure to be tested. When the time passes, pick up the dishes, and put them away. There will be much screaming and yelling. BUT, you will have followed through on what you said you would do. Also, AVOID THE TEMPTATION to say, "If YOU had eaten, then YOU wouldn’t be hungry." Let the message sink in naturally. (Also, please don’t worry about hunger. In America there are very few kids who will literally die from missing a single meal.) Or if the idea of missing a meal horrifies you, pick the clothing as your ‘battlefield’. Pick out the next day’s clothes out the night before with him. If the next morning there is a big ‘todo’ about the outfit, use the same matter of fact approach. Either he goes to preschool wearing just his undies (bringing his clothes in a bag to put on when he gets there), or he misses this day altogether. When he bemoans the fact that he really wants to go, let him know he’ll get another chance to show he can ‘the next time’ (tomorrow, Wednesday, whenever it makes sense). For either scenario, your position is that you aren’t going to argue over this (there is no "But you picked Cheerios", or "But you said you wanted to wear this last night". You will pull away from the power struggle he’s trying to pull you into. You are offering other chances for him to exercise power at reasonable times. — Thanks for your time, Glen q3, q4 ==> q2

Response:

>My four-year-old son gets violent when angry.  He also gets angry easily.  An >Example: I would not allow him to eat Skittles for breakfast.  He screamed, >hit me, kicked the dashboard of the car and kept his arms crossed all the way >to preschool, periodically hitting me or kicking the car.

It’s really hard to give advice in this kind of situation because it’s impossible to know all the facts.  When you say his father is the same way, do you mean his father is that way but he has  learned to control his behavior or do you mean that the child is exposed to  violent anger on a regular basis from his father?  The answer to that question can completely change  a person’s advice. My son, almost 4 yrs old, used to have what I considered a violent temper and, at times, he still does.  Maybe it’s all relative, because many other’s have considered my son’s temper a very normal phase of growing up.  The scene that you described in the car is a scene that sounds familiar to how my son was. You did not give in to his desires, nor did we.  What we also did, though, was pull over to the side of the road and just wait until the fit ended.  It never took too long.   It was unacceptable behavior as I’m sure it is to you too.   If the fit happened at home, I would escort him to his room where he was entitled to have a fit, as long as there isn’t any damage done to property.   That’s what we did, for the most part,  DURING a fit.  What we did to PREVENT the fits is what I consider to be the most important and also the harder to put down in words because it’s so individualized.  We spent alot of time learning the causes of my son’s behavior.  My son is very strong willed, which I happen to love about him, but it also takes alot of work to deal with!  He also has a severe speech delay which is very frustrating for him.  We try very hard to give him as much choice and freedom as possible so that when we DO need to have a hard fast rule that he MUST follow without any hassle,  he will have an easier time of it.   We are also  very careful to say what we mean and mean what we say, as the saying goes.   I’ve also learned that he imitates behavior, as do all children, and I’ve noticed that he really imitates any anger he sees.  If I’m angry at someone, he is angry at that person.  I don’t know about anyone else, but my children sure can hold up the mirrors that reflect the ugliest images of myself!   I’ve learned alot about myself and I’ve been forced to deal with areas of myself that I didn’t even know existed until I had children.  But deal with them I must if I want to deal with my children with success. I am happy to say that my son’s temper is no longer a problem.  I’m not saying he never gets angry, just that it isn’t a problem anymore.   Most of the time.   He is learning how to deal with his anger in more acceptable ways.  He is in preschool and the teachers say that when he is really angry, it’s very obvious but all he does is go off by himself for a bit.  Then, when the anger is gone, he rejoins the group and acts perfectly fine.   I think one of the things I love most about my son is that one is never in doubt as to what he’s feeling.  No guessing games.  I wouldn’t want to do anything to discourage that.   Good luck to you in dealing with your 4 yr old.  I can certainly relate to how trying it can be at times!   Linda C.

Response:

Well if you don’t change what you’re doing, it certainly can’t get better. (I would recommend reading or attending parenting classes based on the work of Rudolf Dreikurs. Children misbehave because they are actually trying to fit-in with the family (it’s just that they lack the experience of adults, and therefore act inappropriately). I am purely taking a guess here, but it sounds like your child’s motivation is power. He wants to have more control over his life. So, my suggestion is two-fold. First, power struggles are diffused by letting go of the other end of the tug-of-war rope. When you are being pulled into a "I want to", "no you can’t" situation, back away from it, by not discussing it. It’s difficult, but matter-of-factly say, "You know what I think of skittles for breakfast", and that’s all you need to say. You don’t want to be dragged through all of the ensuing ugliness. HOWEVER, the child will need to be allowed to exercise power in appropriate ways. Does he get to make choices during the rest of life? i.e. Does he get to pick out the clothes he wears for a day? Do you ask him to pick the vegetable for dinner? (Note: give choices, with limits/boundaries: try: "Would you prefer peas or carrots?" If the answer is "Donuts", remind that "Donuts are not one of your choices. Are you telling me you would like me to pick instead?".) The key point to keep in mind here is that you _encourage_ your child to make good decisions. You believe that with a little guidance, they CAN do it. Secondly, the kicking/hitting thing is W-W-WA-A-AY-Y-Y unacceptable. So you need to ‘take time for training". During a calm period (maybe during dinner, or during the afternoon), you need to discuss the trouble. Use "I" messages, rather than "You" messages to indicate the behavior is unacceptable. For example, "Yesterday did not go well for me. I did not like being hit and kicked. I realize though, that I have probably been letting you think it’s o.k. I didn’t mean to do that. So, I’m going to do things differently. If you choose to hit me while driving, I’m going to pull over and wait until you let me know you’re ready to continue." Now, here comes the hard part. Doing it. Usually we’re busy rushing everywhere, and can’t get a good opportunity to act on what we say (i.e. we’re over a barrel, because we HAVE to grocery shop today). So, if at all possible, set up an opportunity where you have an ‘out’. Leave for preschool earlier than usual, and bring a book along. If he has a big to-do, pull over to the side of the road (as you said you would), and read. He’ll get even ‘to-do-ier". You may need to offer a matter-of-fact (NOT LECTURING) reminder, "You need to let me know when you’re ready to go on". Eventually he’ll quiet down, and you’ll be able to continue. If he does it again, pull over again. This time you won’t need to remind, since you’ve done it once already, just read. Also, resist the temptation to point out that "We would have been on time, if YOU hadn’t screamed and I had to pull over". He’ll can put that cause and effect together himself. As always, this is a very simplified explanation, and shouldn’t be used as a cookbook. I REALLY suggest finding out about the Dreikursian approach, because it’s focus is on encouragement, and the relationship you have with your child, which are the root causes of behavior (good and bad), rather than solving individual situations. Thanks for your time, Glen

Response:

My four-year-old son gets violent when angry.  He also gets angry easily.  An Example: I would not allow him to eat Skittles for breakfast.  He screamed, hit me, kicked the dashboard of the car and kept his arms crossed all the way to preschool, periodically hitting me or kicking the car.  He is an emotional child and tends to cry for seemingly meaningless reasons.  The violence when angry seems to be an inherited trait as his father is the same way. I am concerned that this will become even worse as he grows older as it seems to be worse now than even a year ago.  When he is angry I have tried to get him to put his hands on his head, count to three and blow very hard.  I thought this would both distract him and calm him.  He refuses to try. Any suggestions or references to suggestions to would be appreciated.

Response: