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Now why would you even say that? It was rude and un-called for. — Vince "Opinions expressed may not be correct— But at least they’re my own !!! 
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Bill, maybe the subject for this post should have been "killer parent" > hates nursing 3 month old when in need of comfort…..
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Bill, maybe the subject for this post should have been "killer parent" hates nursing 3 month old when in need of comfort…..
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>> As I suspected I have been getting a lot of replies to the effect that > nursing every 2 hrs is OK. Sorry I don’t find these replies helpful. > Also, hunger is not it AT ALL.
My son was like this (of course, he was 4 weeks premature but had gained plenty of weight by 3 months). My mother came to help me out one day and distracted Nicky for an hour extra between feedings. She suggested I try the same. My husband and I did this without much fuss from Nicky and he then started eating every 3 hours. Unfortunately, he did not eat any less frequently until weaning at 6 months. That was also when he first started sleeping through the night. Nancy
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>Thanks again everyone. >As I suspected I have been getting a lot of replies to the effect that >nursing every 2 hrs is OK. Sorry I don’t find these replies helpful. >Also, hunger is not it AT ALL. >I repeat our first baby did the exact same thing, nurse every two hrs all >day and night. He was fully capable of going longer. When we bit the >bullet and Ferberized at 7 mos he went 10 hrs (all night) without feeding >without a problem. >As for Laura quoting Sears. Well the man wrote "The Family Bed" which is >a prescription for causing sleep disorders. Anyone out there want to join >me in a class action suit?
Sorry, but Sears did not write the book "The Family Bed"–it is another author Tine Thevenin. >May I add that we thought the laLeche League book was a recipe for >disaster also. This book, like Sears’s, should bear a warning label: "For >easy babies only!"
I also have a "killer Baby" as you call them and just about all of don’t know what I would have done without my sling-months of teething from 4mo to 8mo old. So, you don’t like this methods—- There are a wealth of other "traditional" cry it out methods. >Laura I agree that probably the killer babies turn out to be high >achievers. I also have a pet theory that "colic" is simply the boredom of >a smart baby who is like Hawkins trapped inside a body that won’t do >anything. So far as I know there is abolutely no basis for saying colic >is related to digestion. Colic is just a catchall for "baby crying for no >apparent reason". Matt went through this. He is quite smart. >Enid thank you for your wonderful reply. I agree heartily with what you >say. >OK for those of you out there enjoying us suffer through 2hr feedings–now >Rachel started teething! (Yes–at 3 mos!) And now it’s not feeding she >wants, but she woke up crying every hour on the hour last night. >Hahahahahahahahahahahahah. >As you see I am cracking up! Happy father’s day!
HA! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Cheers, >Bill >PS other people out there with killer babies: I made up the following joke >to cheer me up. >"Remember, Hitler was an easy baby"
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Reply to Anita , who asked why I went to a restroom to nurse: I’ve gone to the restroom to nurse in a mall by us because it has nice couches, lamps, a comfortable atmosphere. When not in that mall, I nursed anywhere I could – from a bench in the aisle of a store surrounded to people, in the middle of a food court or restaurant, in a store, at a park, you name it, I’ve nursed there. It is nothing to be ashamed about or hide. I just liked the restroom at this place because it is like a living room and I could read and be in peace there. I was just using the restroom as an example to illustrate a point.
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> As for Laura quoting Sears. Well the man wrote "The Family Bed" which is > a prescription for causing sleep disorders. Anyone out there want to join > me in a class action suit? > May I add that we thought the laLeche League book was a recipe for > disaster also. This book, like Sears’s, should bear a warning label: "For > easy babies only!"
Bill: I just wanted to mention that "The Family Bed" was written by Tine Thevenin, not Dr. Sears. He wrote "Nightime Parenting". By the way, just out of curiosity, did you read these books? What do you mean by "causing sleep disorders"? I realize that we all have different parenting styles, but I have to mention that during the first 3 months of my son’s life (he is now almost 6 months) he was consistently put on his crib to sleep and I would end up waking every half hour with his cries. Needless to say, I was getting no sleep. After reading these books and realizing that he is just a baby that has needs that must be met 24 hours a day 7 days a week, the problem was resolved. Now we both get some sleep at night. Dr. Ferber’s ideas might work well for some parents, but IMO, it is cruel to let a small baby cry just to make our "adult" lives easier. By the way, the every 2 hour feeding habit is very common for younger babies. It will pass. Good luck. Lizzette
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Thanks everyone for the helpful replies. >Clairine–well this is baby #2 for us, we’re pretty experienced. The main >clue that Rachel wants breast: rooting at breast (mine or Mary’s), plus >ruling out alternatives. >As for "sadist". I meant that if you thought feeding a 3 mos old (newborn >is completely different–that was 3 mos ago!!) every 2 hrs 24 hrs a day is >not a problem for my family (Rachel, Matt, Bill, Mary) then you are a >sadist. That is you want to subject us to severe pain and hardship. I >think most torturers would agree that sleep deprivation is a good one. >I was NOT making the statement that "if feeding every 2 hrs is not a >problem for YOU, then you are a masochist". >I think the important thing to realise that this behaviour pattern is at >the extreme end of the distribution, and that by the age of 3 mos most >babies are nursing much less frequently. We want Rachel to become closer >to the mean. It will be better for her and everyone else.
This is not true!!!! It is very common for babies exclusively BF’d to go through growth spurts and nurse very often. Some will nurse for blocks of time(2hrs non stop) for example. So your daughter’s nursing pattern is not extreme, except to the adult who is tired. Hell, I know some nursing toddlers that will some days nurse as much as a new born. I have one! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Mary did try a breast pump at one point, found it took forever and was a >lot of work. Maybe this other model being suggested is better than the >one she tried. >Thanks again everyone. >Bill Simpson
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Thanks again everyone. As I suspected I have been getting a lot of replies to the effect that nursing every 2 hrs is OK. Sorry I don’t find these replies helpful. Also, hunger is not it AT ALL. I repeat our first baby did the exact same thing, nurse every two hrs all day and night. He was fully capable of going longer. When we bit the bullet and Ferberized at 7 mos he went 10 hrs (all night) without feeding without a problem. As for Laura quoting Sears. Well the man wrote "The Family Bed" which is a prescription for causing sleep disorders. Anyone out there want to join me in a class action suit? May I add that we thought the laLeche League book was a recipe for disaster also. This book, like Sears’s, should bear a warning label: "For easy babies only!" Laura I agree that probably the killer babies turn out to be high achievers. I also have a pet theory that "colic" is simply the boredom of a smart baby who is like Hawkins trapped inside a body that won’t do anything. So far as I know there is abolutely no basis for saying colic is related to digestion. Colic is just a catchall for "baby crying for no apparent reason". Matt went through this. He is quite smart. Enid thank you for your wonderful reply. I agree heartily with what you say. OK for those of you out there enjoying us suffer through 2hr feedings–now Rachel started teething! (Yes–at 3 mos!) And now it’s not feeding she wants, but she woke up crying every hour on the hour last night. Hahahahahahahahahahahahah. As you see I am cracking up! Happy father’s day! Cheers, Bill PS other people out there with killer babies: I made up the following joke to cheer me up. "Remember, Hitler was an easy baby"
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> Here is the problem: > We have a 3 mos old baby (Rachel) who wants to be breastfed every 2 > hrs–day and night! If you don’t think that is a problem, dear reader, > you are a sadist. > We had a similar problem with our first baby (Matt). We did not really > solve it that well and want to do better this time…
I nursed all 3 of my kids, and 2 of the three nursed frequently. I did find that when my nutrition was better, that the milk seemed more satisfying to them. Mom should be extra sure that she’s eating and drinking enough that her milk is not deficient. Also, she should be sure that she’s relaxing and giving forth fully while nursing. Tension, from discomfort and/or resentment, inhibit milk flow. There are many reasons a baby demands nursing…most of them are legitimate: thirst, hunger, need for comfort, etc. A three month old infant is a baby who is helpless and completely at your mercy. Their only need at that age is for very (constant) basic care. It _is_ demanding, and the nursing mother _needs_ understanding and *patient* support, especially when the wee one is a high-need child. Dads who are playing support to nursing moms, particularly with high-need babies, need to get support themselves, sometimes. It’s tough to be a good sport when the baby takes your wife away, month after month, with no end in sight. If you can be cheerful and supportive without fail with a couple of complaining kids always interfering in your marriage, you are a saint. Most of us normally have our problems with such an arrangement! ;) Soldier on anyway. It won’t be that way forever! There is a spectrum of normality: it’s normal for some kids to be easy to satisfy, and for others to be demanding and extra-needy. If it’s any consolation, my most needy and demanding child has turned out to be, as a teen, the most ambitious and achievement-oriented of the litter. Some of this is simply temperament (genetic). The most difficult children often prove to be the most worthwhile adults. Yes, I think it’s OK for your little one to want to nurse every two hours, and yes, I am a sadist. ;) — * Enjoy Life *
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>My son had a wake/feed cycle of every 2 hours until,hmm, maybe 10 months >or so. Who was *I* to tell him he didn’t need what he thought >he needed? Yes, it was tough to not get much sleep … I’m the family >breadwinner & have a 50-hour-a-week job. But for heaven’s sake, how >long are they babies? Two years? Three years? >t.r., whose son still doesn’t sleep more than 5 hours at a stretch at >16 months, but hey…he’s a BABY!!!!
And I will reiterate, my baby had the same schedule, and are you sure you weren/t risking an awful accident from being so sleep deprived? I think I got thru by luck alone and I don’t think it was a smart decision, in hindsight of several years. I was nursing every two hours all night and day, the baby wasn’t happy anyway, and I was practically seeing double from fatigue. Between her hip brace and my crutches every little thing took eons to get done. If there had been some way to get her thru the night, yeah, maybe she would have lost something, but look at the other side of the equation. What would she have gained, if she wasn’t being taken care of by a zombie momma? Enid Mom to Jane (5-10-89) and Polly Alice (4-25-91) well, they sleep through the night now….
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> Oh yes! That reminds me! At about 3 months my twins did go through a > stage just like this and all they wanted to do was suck. I remember my > husband coming home and finding me near tears saying "They’re leeches. > They’re parasites. They’ve been hanging off me all day. Help me!" > (no flames, please…that was stress talking. I love my babies > fiercely!) A pacifier did the trick beautifully. That stage lasted > about three weeks and then they lost all interest in the pacifier and > we haven’t used them since. (Yeesh! How could I have forgotten that? > Well, I guess they call those first months "the blur" for a reason). > Anita
Lucky you!! My twins are 19 months old and have been very attached to their pacifiers since their first day in NICU. They *love* the darn things, which would be fine with me except that they’ll only take one kind, which I have to mail order, and lately they’ve been chewing holes in them like crazy! These days I’m lucky if a new one lasts more than a week. (sigh) I’ve got to remember to call and order more tomorrow… –Summer
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> > > Here is the problem: > > We have a 3 mos old baby (Rachel) who wants to be breastfed every 2 > > hrs–day and night! If you don’t think that is a problem, dear reader, > > you are a sadist.
It was my understanding that breastmilk was digested within about two hours, whereas formula takes four hours to digest. For this reason, I think if you are going to stay committed to bf, you shouldn’t try to force a baby onto any adult-designed schedule. I nursed my son every 1.5 hours to 2 hours usually, and for very short periods of time. My mom was positive I was doing something wrong. Books I’ve read (including Sears) say that that is normal, too, and that it is best to allow the baby to establish what his needs are. I didn’t consider myself a sadist-I study brain development and I felt that I was doing what was best for my baby. That is what kept me going when I had to nurse at all hours of the night. I also agree with the poster who mentioned the growth spurts-it was a bit overwhelming at these times when the nursing increased, but my son is a toddler now and his weight is just fine.
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Thanks everyone for the helpful replies. Clairine–well this is baby #2 for us, we’re pretty experienced. The main clue that Rachel wants breast: rooting at breast (mine or Mary’s), plus ruling out alternatives. As for "sadist". I meant that if you thought feeding a 3 mos old (newborn is completely different–that was 3 mos ago!!) every 2 hrs 24 hrs a day is not a problem for my family (Rachel, Matt, Bill, Mary) then you are a sadist. That is you want to subject us to severe pain and hardship. I think most torturers would agree that sleep deprivation is a good one. I was NOT making the statement that "if feeding every 2 hrs is not a problem for YOU, then you are a masochist". I think the important thing to realise that this behaviour pattern is at the extreme end of the distribution, and that by the age of 3 mos most babies are nursing much less frequently. We want Rachel to become closer to the mean. It will be better for her and everyone else. Mary did try a breast pump at one point, found it took forever and was a lot of work. Maybe this other model being suggested is better than the one she tried. Thanks again everyone. Bill Simpson
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Here is the problem: > We have a 3 mos old baby (Rachel) who wants to be breastfed every 2 > hrs–day and night! If you don’t think that is a problem, dear reader, > you are a sadist. > — snip > No Flames please… But here goes. > IMHO, a very good compromise is a *Professional* quality breast pump. > My wife uses hers, pumps every 6 hours, stores the milk in baby bottles > (Playtex). > Then the baby can be fed this milk as needed, and Mom can get much deserved > rest; > while Dad gets to spend some QUALITY time with his newborn. > I know that the initial cost of a quality pump may seem prohibitive, but > consider the > alternative: > 1. No sleep for Mom; no time for other kids > 2. Baby formula – expensive and no quite complete > 3. Some might say that Breast Milk will lead to FEWER Dr. office visits > We purchased a Medela "Pump-in-Style" for $180, and love it. > Contact me if you want a testimonial or other info > — > Vince > "Opinions expressed may not be correct— > But at least they’re my own !!!
I have breast-fed 3 children. At 6wks, 3,6&9 months babies go through a growth spurt. They nurse frequently to increase the milk supply. It usually lasts 24 to 48 hrs. Grag a paperback and catch up on your reading. Enjoy your baby. They grow really fast. You are giving your baby one of the greatest gifts you can by nursing him/her.
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> Everytime a baby cries does not mean he/she > hungry. I know I made the same mistake > with my son . They cry for one of five reasons > they truly are hungry, they want to suck on a > pacifer, they want to be held, they want > attention, or they have a dirty diaper.
====== just for clarification’s sake, they don’t "want to suck on a pacifier." They want to suck, yes. That’s part of what the breast is for — not ONLY for sucking while food is being delivered. If given the chance, they can learn to use their fingers for this, too. If you choose to give your baby an artificial substitute, oh well, but that’s not what they’re born to want to suck on. t.r.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Here is the problem: > We have a 3 mos old baby (Rachel) who wants to be breastfed every 2 > hrs–day and night! If you don’t think that is a problem, dear reader, > you are a sadist. > We have used Ferber and put Rachel into the crib. She settles well and > sleeps say 3 hrs for first stretch. We have tried following the advice in > the book about stretching out the period between feedings: 3hrs first > night, then 3.5 hrs next night, etc.) The problem is that she is very > persistent and for past week has been crying a long time (say 1/2) hr if > she wakes up well before the next scheduled feeding. Eventually she does > settle herself though and often sleeps another 3 hrs. > During the day she has that awful pattern of wake, feed, active, fussy, > sleep cycle 2 hrs start to finish. Need longer active period and longer > sleep period. Say 2 hr active, 2 hr nap, 4 hr between feedings. Can’t > figure out how to break her into a more reasonable pattern
Guess I *am* a sadist. I will exercise my right to post just because I think somebody should say "this is NOT impossible…even if it is for YOU." BTW Ferber is NOT recommended for babies younger than 6 months, I was under the impression. My son had a wake/feed cycle of every 2 hours until,hmm, maybe 10 months or so. Who was *I* to tell him he didn’t need what he thought he needed? Yes, it was tough to not get much sleep … I’m the family breadwinner & have a 50-hour-a-week job. But for heaven’s sake, how long are they babies? Two years? Three years? t.r., whose son still doesn’t sleep more than 5 hours at a stretch at 16 months, but hey…he’s a BABY!!!!
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Here is the problem: >>We have a 3 mos old baby (Rachel) who wants to be breastfed every 2 >>hrs–day and night! If you don’t think that is a problem, dear reader, >>you are a sadist. >I am not a sadist…. I let my daughter nurse at least that much at >that young age, probably more. But If this is not working for your >family, there are ways to lengthen the time between nursings. I have >seen them already posted. Pacifer, a good walk w/dad, swing, and many >others. All take a little time–nothing ever works overnight. But >please don’t say that those of us who let our babies nurse on demand >are sadists…. I enjoyed that intense and close time with my child. >see is 17mos and still going, although not every two hours.
I think you’ve misunderstood the original poster. The way I read it, by saying "you are a sadist" he meant that if you (the reader) consider the sleep deprivation that he and and his wife are undergoing to be trivial, then you like to see people suffer. Not that feeding a baby every two hours was sadistic! Clearly, while some people (like Jennifer) cope well with frequent feedings day and night, others don’t – all he wanted was some advice on how to cope with a situation which isn’t working for him. (Advice which, unfortunately, I don’t have!) Annalise — Annalise Abraham phone : +27 31 2616370
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(snipping a little off the top) >We purchased a Medela "Pump-in-Style" for $180, and love it. >Contact me if you want a testimonial or other info
I bought the same pump ($300 Cdn) and I can vouch for it. It’s hospital quality and you can do double pumping with it. I have twins so that was a necessity but for your wife it will save time. Also it might help increase her production so that when the baby does nurse there is more milk for her. Anita
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> Everytime a baby cries does not mean he/she > hungry. I know I made the same mistake > with my son . They cry for one of five reasons > they truly are hungry, they want to suck on a > pacifer, they want to be held, they want > attention, or they have a dirty diaper.
Or they are just plain unhappy for some reason, such as colic or ?????? One of my sons got frantically unhappy and was not soothed by a pacifier, by being held, nursed, changed, played with, or *anything* but time. This wasn’t colic — it didn’t last that long and it didn’t happen at the same time every day (it didn’t even happen every day) — but it wasn’t from any of those five reasons either. I think that the "five reasons" are *just a bit* over simplified. –Summer
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Also, BTW, when if she doesn’t take a pacifier she will find her thumb. She has to suck something, and this will help tremendously!
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> Here is the problem: > We have a 3 mos old baby (Rachel) who wants to be breastfed every 2 > hrs–day and night! If you don’t think that is a problem, dear reader, > you are a sadist.
– snip No Flames please… But here goes. IMHO, a very good compromise is a *Professional* quality breast pump. My wife uses hers, pumps every 6 hours, stores the milk in baby bottles (Playtex). Then the baby can be fed this milk as needed, and Mom can get much deserved rest; while Dad gets to spend some QUALITY time with his newborn. I know that the initial cost of a quality pump may seem prohibitive, but consider the alternative: 1. No sleep for Mom; no time for other kids 2. Baby formula – expensive and no quite complete 3. Some might say that Breast Milk will lead to FEWER Dr. office visits We purchased a Medela "Pump-in-Style" for $180, and love it. Contact me if you want a testimonial or other info — Vince "Opinions expressed may not be correct— But at least they’re my own !!!
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>BTW Rachel does not need all these feedings. She is quite fat. She is >not nursing out of hunger, just out of habit. Often when she does >these feedings she really is not very hungry and just nurses a few >minutes on a single breast. She is an oral personality >like her mom and her brother. She will not take any nipple substitutes. >She is healthy and happy.
Bill, My twins often behaved this way during growth spurts but these spurts only lasted a few days at a time. Might it be a growth spurt? Also, when my girls were four and a half months old they seemed insatiable so I started them on solids and you know what? They were ready for ‘em!! Maybe it’s time to try Rachel on cereal? I know all the books say that’s too early but they’re just guidelines after all and each baby is different. I know how frustrating this must be for your wife and I wish you luck. Anita
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I went through the same thing with my youngest (whose name btw is rachel also). I was, literally, her human pacifier. I thought that by 3 months it would stop, but it didn’t. We also tried spacing out feedings/sleep. We tried pacifiers. We tried driving in the car, stroller walks, flying her around in the air (which she loved but we got tired). We let her cry it out but she, too, could cry for hours (and she has the most pitiful cry), She was (and is) very healthy, normal weight for her height, etc etc. What worked? time. Hate to say it, nothing. But by 5 months we got her to go every 3 hours, and she slept through the night by then. Nothing else really "worked." What helped? I used to call my friends who had breastfed and found that they, too, went through this stage. Your wife is not alone! Another thing that helped: Since I planned to breastfeed for 1 yr and then wean to a cup (my Rachel never had a bottle) I gave her a cup with water in it at about the time she could hold and play with it. This seemed to hold her interest, and by 5 months she was drinking from the cup. (We got those playtex spillproof ones). This is so hard for everyone. Everyone is exhausted. You want to throw the baby out the window (you walk into another room when you get that feeling). You resent the baby and love her at the same time. Your older child wonders when his parents are coming back. My oldest used to say "I need an aspirin, she’s giving me a headache" she was 3 at the time.You wonder if the dark circles under your eyes are permanent. You wonder if you ever will go out in public again. You make friends with the restroom attendant when you do get out but then you’re stuck in the restroom nursing anyway so what was the point? Best thing – this will end. You are NOT BAD PARENTS. In fact, you are wonderful parents for giving her what she needs and trying to put her on a much needed schedule for everyone. Also, the fact that you wrote for help shows you are a good parent. Good luck, hope this helped
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Here is the problem: We have a 3 mos old baby (Rachel) who wants to be breastfed every 2 hrs–day and night! If you don’t think that is a problem, dear reader, you are a sadist. We had a similar problem with our first baby (Matt). We did not really solve it that well and want to do better this time. Matt slept with his mom until he was 7 mos. Then she couldn’t take it any more, and in desperation tried Ferber. Worked like a charm. Killed 2 birds with one stone: got him sleeping in the crib, and also cut out all the night time feedings. Can’t really remember what happened during the day; probably they fell into a better pattern too (instead of wake, feed, active, fussy, sleep cycle 2 hrs start to finish!) Made him a lot happier and obviously us too. We have used Ferber and put Rachel into the crib. She settles well and sleeps say 3 hrs for first stretch. We have tried following the advice in the book about stretching out the period between feedings: 3hrs first night, then 3.5 hrs next night, etc.) The problem is that she is very persistent and for past week has been crying a long time (say 1/2) hr if she wakes up well before the next scheduled feeding. Eventually she does settle herself though and often sleeps another 3 hrs. During the day she has that awful pattern of wake, feed, active, fussy, sleep cycle 2 hrs start to finish. Need longer active period and longer sleep period. Say 2 hr active, 2 hr nap, 4 hr between feedings. Can’t figure out how to break her into a more reasonable pattern BTW Rachel does not need all these feedings. She is quite fat. She is not nursing out of hunger, just out of habit. Often when she does these feedings she really is not very hungry and just nurses a few minutes on a single breast. She is an oral personality like her mom and her brother. She will not take any nipple substitutes. She is healthy and happy. The current set-up is causing a great deal of despair in my wife. If you have had a similar experience and solved it, we would love to hear from you! (If you have a "what a bad parent you are-you should be ashamed of yourself-give the baby what she wants and everything will be OK" speech, please keep it to yourself. No flames, please) Thanks very much for any help! Bill Simpson
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