Pure Parents

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >(Wakanyeja Makah) writes: >Okay, my two cents…. >I have four kids:  two boys, 14 (almost) and 7; two girls:  11 and 4.  Mr. >Makah, do I qualify as experienced? >What do you define as "spanking"?  A single, open-handed swat on the rear? > Several swats?  Pants up or down?  Hand only or belt, switch, paddle, >hairbrush?  Confined to toddlers and young children, until the kids leave >home, or somewhere inbetween?  I ask because I’ve been amazed to find that >while I have given an open-handed swat and called it a "spanking," others >have used a belt and much more force–and also called it a "spanking." >So, Mr. Makah, time outs can work.  And I know plenty of "spanked" kids >who were demons the minute they were out of sight of their parents! >Denise

Denise,         Yes, I believe that you are an experienced parent (and BTW I am MRS. Makah)           I also believe that there are many ways of parenting and many different children and what does work for one child may or may not work with another child.  That is why I find the blanket headers (i.E Spanking Indefensible) so offensive.           I define spanking as an open handed swat to the bottom.  I am a nurse and I have seen plenty of abuse cases and I know the difference between *spanking* and child abuse.         I am nearing 40 and have three sons and feel I too have experience. W. Makah

Response:

>> I have some problems with my son in stores, he like to run around like a > nut and get into everything! but i dont think i should have to bribe my > kid to behave, he should do it because i say so, I also dont think i > should have to leave the store, i can see it now , if i contracted with > him he would manipulate me every time we went somewhere. right now i just > make him stay in the cart and tell him no…over and over and over and yes > we leave the store frazzled!  I should note that he just turned 2… > anyone have any other ideas? > Tami

When I take Katelyn to a store that sells kid’s books, the first thing we do is pick out two for her to look at while I look around and shop. I don’t buy the books when we leave, but that is usually not an issue. By the time I’m ready to go, she has had a chance to look through them already.  At the grocery store I do two things.  First, I always bring a toy along that holds her interest, but isn’t annoying (like with some smaller toys, she drops them between the bars of the seat, or they get stuck etc.) .  I read other posters that recommend actively involving the child in shopping, and that doesn’t really work for me. Katelyn turns 2 on the 23rd of this month, and she doesn’t seem interested in discussion about my choices and decision making regarding spaghetti .  The second thing I do (because she invariably gets tired of the toy before I’m ready to go) is to pick her up a snack (usually animal crackers because she IS interested in conversation about those guys and the noises they make) and let her eat it while I’m shopping.  Using these two methods I can usually get through grocery shopping with some sanity and get to use my coupons too.  Of course, the best thing to help keep my babe occupied while shopping is her dad!  Unfortunately, we can’t make grocery shopping a family affair all the time!  When hubby takes her shopping, he plays cart games which also works.  I don’t have enough energy to sling the cart around while slam dunking the cereal, but you might want to try that, too.  Hope this helps. Jennifer,  Katelyn’s mom

Response:

(Wakanyeja Makah) writes: >Excuse me, >    You are basing your replies to me on experience you have >gleaned over two years (a two year old).   >    Write me when the 2 year old is ten or twelve or fifteen and >tell me if your position remains the same. >W. Makah

Okay, my two cents…. I have four kids:  two boys, 14 (almost) and 7; two girls:  11 and 4.  Mr. Makah, do I qualify as experienced? What do you define as "spanking"?  A single, open-handed swat on the rear?  Several swats?  Pants up or down?  Hand only or belt, switch, paddle, hairbrush?  Confined to toddlers and young children, until the kids leave home, or somewhere inbetween?  I ask because I’ve been amazed to find that while I have given an open-handed swat and called it a "spanking," others have used a belt and much more force–and also called it a "spanking." My oldest is high energy/high intensity.  Shopping with him as a two-year-old was tough.  Shopping with him now can be tough.  He’s a natural-born negotiator, and we’ve made deals/bribes/contracts/rewards so we can both "win."  Good grades, good behavior, going above and beyond the call of duty to the family (as decided by my hubs and I)–all of these are rewarded by extra privileges, a special toy, a treat of some sort of another.  Does he get everything he wants?  No, and never has.  Do I consider his wants, desires, feelings?  Yes, I do.  Am I the parent?  Yes, I am.  Does he know it?  Yes, he does.  Does he respect me?  Probably yes. Does he test his limits?  Every day.  He can be mouthy, rude, and downright unpleasant.  Do I love him anyway?  Yes, and he knows it.  That’s one reason he’s rude–he’s testing his limits.  Do I let him know that he’s overstepped his bounds?  Emphatically, and my hubs (his father) backs me up.  Do I tolerate rudeness from his friends?  No. He has not always made the right choices in life.  He has suffered–and is even now suffering–the consequences of those choices.  (Nothing truly serious, but he doesn’t have that perspective yet.)  When he was a toddler and young child, spanking was simply not effective with him.  Time outs, loss of privileges were.   He’s currently in 8th Grade.  He wants to go to UC Berkeley and be a software designer and we’ve had many discussions about what he’s going to have to do to get there.  He’s a Patrol Leader in his Boy Scout troop and has gone to Junior Leadership Training.  He is usually very polite to most adults, treats his friends parents and grandparents with great respect.  He has shown himself to be responsible enough to watch his three younger siblings for substantial periods of time.  He is responsible enough to have a significant amount of personal freedom around town.   My children are not perfectly well-behaved: they often tease and provoke each other, they do not obey instantly, their rooms are often a mess.  They are also caring, kind, considerate, and intelligent.   They act much as I did and as my siblings did.  I am 44, happily married for 18 years, have a degree in Biology, was successful in my first career, doing quite well in my second (raising kids), ready to start my third.  I am confident that they will all turn out to be great human beings.  Time outs and loss of privileges are still the primary method of enforcing discipline. So, Mr. Makah, time outs can work.  And I know plenty of "spanked" kids who were demons the minute they were out of sight of their parents! Denise

Response:

>Try to limit the amount of time that you’re in the store. Give him >something to do. Remember that he’s only 2yo and a half hour is eternal. >Good luck, >Alexis

Excuse me,         You are basing your replies to me on experience you have gleaned over two years (a two year old).           Write me when the 2 year old is ten or twelve or fifteen and tell me if your position remains the same. W. Makah

Response:

Can I make a suggestion of a different sort?  Why not find a sitter or get a relative to watch him for an hour or two while you shop. Everybody wins: he gets to have fun and not get yelled at, you get to shop in peace and quiet and actually be able to read labels.  do a few oter errands at the same time, like get a haircut or go to the bank.   And after a few hours away from each other, you two will be able to enjoy each other’s company more.  As oppsoed to being upset with each other and in a bad mood. Angie

Response:

> I have some problems with my son in stores, he like to run around like a > nut and get into everything! but i dont think i should have to bribe my > kid to behave, he should do it because i say so,

I think you’re expecting a bit much from a two year old. A toddlers job is to run around and get into everything (otherwise known as exploring). As far as bribing goes – you get something out of your shopping experience, don’t you? Your little boy does not. Don’t you think it’s fair that he should get something out of the shopping experience? Say you’re shopping for groceries, why not involve him? See if he can find the items on your list. When shopping with my daughter at that age, I always let her bring some small toy with her to keep her occupied. I’d also put some items in the seat part of the cart for her to examine. Boxes of rice were her favorite, they make a great noise when you shake ‘em.  I also dont think i > should have to leave the store, i can see it now , if i contracted with > him he would manipulate me every time we went somewhere. right now i just > make him stay in the cart and tell him no…over and over and over and yes > we leave the store frazzled!

It really sounds like you’re expecting him to behave like an older child. He doesn’t really have the attention span to sit quietly in a cart for over a half an hour with nothing to do. Bring a toy, involve him, talk about what you’re buying and why. Discuss the vegetables and why you choose one over another. If you keep him occupied, he might not be as likely to want to get out of the cart. Try to limit the amount of times you say ‘no’ and figure out some things you can say ‘yes’ to.   I should note that he just turned 2… > anyone have any other ideas?

I don’t think, unless you have a very advanced and/or cooperative child, that contracting at this age will work. Try to limit the amount of time that you’re in the store. Give him something to do. Remember that he’s only 2yo and a half hour is eternal. Good luck, Alexis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Tami > > >> It is disgusting to see a child hitting its parents or running around > > >> inj a grocery with Mommy wringing her hands saying "Now honey…stop > > >> that…" or a child screaming and crying to get a particular toy or > > >> item (and amazingly parents who go ahead and buy said item so the > > >> child will stop screaming and crying)  What is this child learning. > > >This is not discipline. A parent can teach without hitting/spanking > > >(whatever). In any event, I’d rather watch that than a parent smacking > > >their kid in the grocery store. > > >Peace, > > >Alexis > > Alexis, > >  Do you have children? > > W. Makah > Yup, do you? > Have I ever hit my child? (to answer your next question) No. > Have I ever felt so frustrated that I wanted to? Yes, you betcha. > Will I ever hit my child? No, not if I can help it. > Do I discipline? Yes, you betcha! > Does my child sometimes act badly in stores? Yes, she’s only human. > Do I whine at her to stop? No. I take her out of the store. We talk, we > contract. If she can keep it together she gets xxx, if she can’t, she > loses xxx. > Does it work? Yes, it does. > Why does it work? Because I’m consistent and she knows I’m telling the > truth. > -Alexis

Response:

> I have some problems with my son in stores, he like to run around like a > nut and get into everything! but i dont think i should have to bribe my > kid to behave, he should do it because i say so, I also dont think i > should have to leave the store, i can see it now , if i contracted with > him he would manipulate me every time we went somewhere. right now i just > make him stay in the cart and tell him no…over and over and over and yes > we leave the store frazzled!  I should note that he just turned 2… > anyone have any other ideas? > Tami

So far so good, but you have to find some ways to make it a positive experience rather than just an exercise in control and since it has already become a negative one, the pattern may be hard to break.  The only choices aren’t being sour and unpleasant versus ‘bribing’.  The goal is to make needed chores, drive time etc pleasant time not something to get through. Ideally kids behave well, because they want to please Mom and they enjoy her company.  If they don’t then it is an endless hassle. When mine were very small, I would see that they had a toy [maybe a special grocery cart only toy] to play with while we shopped.  As they got to be about 2 or so, they would get involved in the shopping.  We would talk about the purchases, they would hold the cereal box or whatever — we would identify pictures etc etc etc.  We would make a list together at home before we shopped; they would hold coupons etc etc  When you are saying ‘no, no, no, no,’  continually, you have lost.  Try to discuss the shopping trip as an adventure, let him help identify special foods that you need to get, give him some sort of role in the process. In a few years, he will be able to help plan some meals and help you cook them.  We started that at 3 [with the understanding that this 'help' is a lot more trouble than help, but that it is the beginning of skills that begin to pay off when they are older]  By the time he is 8-10 he will be able to prepare simple meals.

Response:

I have some problems with my son in stores, he like to run around like a nut and get into everything! but i dont think i should have to bribe my kid to behave, he should do it because i say so, I also dont think i should have to leave the store, i can see it now , if i contracted with him he would manipulate me every time we went somewhere. right now i just make him stay in the cart and tell him no…over and over and over and yes we leave the store frazzled!  I should note that he just turned 2… anyone have any other ideas? Tami – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> It is disgusting to see a child hitting its parents or running around > >> inj a grocery with Mommy wringing her hands saying "Now honey…stop > >> that…" or a child screaming and crying to get a particular toy or > >> item (and amazingly parents who go ahead and buy said item so the > >> child will stop screaming and crying)  What is this child learning. > >This is not discipline. A parent can teach without hitting/spanking > >(whatever). In any event, I’d rather watch that than a parent smacking > >their kid in the grocery store. > >Peace, > >Alexis > Alexis, >       Do you have children? > W. Makah > Yup, do you? > Have I ever hit my child? (to answer your next question) No. > Have I ever felt so frustrated that I wanted to? Yes, you betcha. > Will I ever hit my child? No, not if I can help it. > Do I discipline? Yes, you betcha! > Does my child sometimes act badly in stores? Yes, she’s only human. > Do I whine at her to stop? No. I take her out of the store. We talk, we > contract. If she can keep it together she gets xxx, if she can’t, she > loses xxx. > Does it work? Yes, it does. > Why does it work? Because I’m consistent and she knows I’m telling the > truth. > -Alexis

Response:

>> It is disgusting to see a child hitting its parents or running around > inj a grocery with Mommy wringing her hands saying "Now honey…stop > that…" or a child screaming and crying to get a particular toy or > item (and amazingly parents who go ahead and buy said item so the > child will stop screaming and crying)  What is this child learning. >This is not discipline. A parent can teach without hitting/spanking >(whatever). In any event, I’d rather watch that than a parent smacking >their kid in the grocery store. >Peace, >Alexis

Alexis,         Do you have children? W. Makah

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> It is disgusting to see a child hitting its parents or running around >> inj a grocery with Mommy wringing her hands saying "Now honey…stop >> that…" or a child screaming and crying to get a particular toy or >> item (and amazingly parents who go ahead and buy said item so the >> child will stop screaming and crying)  What is this child learning. >This is not discipline. A parent can teach without hitting/spanking >(whatever). In any event, I’d rather watch that than a parent smacking >their kid in the grocery store. >Peace, >Alexis > Alexis, >    Do you have children? > W. Makah

Yup, do you? Have I ever hit my child? (to answer your next question) No. Have I ever felt so frustrated that I wanted to? Yes, you betcha. Will I ever hit my child? No, not if I can help it. Do I discipline? Yes, you betcha! Does my child sometimes act badly in stores? Yes, she’s only human. Do I whine at her to stop? No. I take her out of the store. We talk, we contract. If she can keep it together she gets xxx, if she can’t, she loses xxx. Does it work? Yes, it does. Why does it work? Because I’m consistent and she knows I’m telling the truth. -Alexis

Response:

(Shalimar) writes: >[teachers] have spent YEARS teaching, reaching out, and trying to >help children.  They see the change in the children – and the damage >parents are doing to their children

Pardon me, but no; they haven’t seen their students’ behavior in light of the home conditions.  At public school, students are lucky if parents have a discussion with a teacher twice a year.  UNLESS it’s a trouble making kid.   What do teachers know about the affects of various parenting styles if they don’t have time to know the parents.   – Ron Low Levity is the dearth of gravity.  Brevity is the height of clarity.  

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I believe there is some middle ground here.  I’m not quite sure what > you mean by a good sound spanking, but yes- if this type of behavior > continued I would suggest spanking.  Children don’t psychoanalyze > things the way that we do.  When they are spanked they get the message > that the particular behavior they have indulged in should not be > repeated. > It is disgusting to see a child hitting its parents or running around > inj a grocery with Mommy wringing her hands saying "Now honey…stop > that…" or a child screaming and crying to get a particular toy or > item (and amazingly parents who go ahead and buy said item so the > child will stop screaming and crying)  What is this child learning. > Where have all the parents gone? > Have any of you ever wondered why (if this type of parenting was so > effective) there is an increase in child/teen degenerating > behaviorism. > Why do we have teens giving birth in bathrooms and then killing their > child and going back out to the party? > Why do we have such a huge number of teens/children who have no > respect for authority, themselves or anything else for that matter? > The part about all of this that bothers me the most is that while my > children are learning to be considerate human beings – your children > are growing up thinking that somehow the universe revolves around > them- and these are the individuals my children will have to deal with > in the future… > W.  Makah

You make a very valid point, and this is why I feel sorry for the parents of today who are trying to raise civilized human beings. It is becoming harder and harder to counteract the effect on your child when they have to deal with children who are being raised by parents who have decided that having structure in a child’s life and teaching self discipline will hurt their *self esteem*. Evidently to have self esteem, you must do whatever you want to do and it doesn’t matter if your actions harm or bother someone else, because your happiness is the number one priority. When parents do not teach children how to treat their parents with respect, I don’t see how we can expect these children to treat others with respect. Everything a child learns about human relationships starts with that first relationship they have with their parents. Speaking of teenagers, our student handbooks for the jr. high and high school includes a guideline for the nutritional needs of pregnant teens. Now isn’t that a sad commentary on the direction society has taken. Six 13 year olds were pregnant at the Jr. High when my daughter, who is now a junior in high school, was in 9th grade. And most of the kids think these kids are really cool for being able to reproduce. A friend of mine’s son attended his first day of kindergarten Wednesday. Another child in the class attacked the teacher by hitting and biting her, and had to be removed from the class. Parents better wake up and change these child rearing methods that are now in vogue. I am coping presently with the change in the behavior of teenagers our society is experiencing, and it is only going to get worse, unless someone finally writes a new book (evidently the only way to get through to the present generation of parents). They need to be told that making sure there is structure in their child’s life, and teaching a child self control, not only will assure that this child will turn into a contributing member of society…but as a further perk….they will wind up actually liking their kids. Something I think few parents do any more. They *love* them, I guess. But like them? How could they like to be around a child who is always out of control? Just my opinion…. Helen

Response:

> If we pick him up, showing no emotion, and place him in a time out, he

laughs I’ll say it again – to discipline is to teach.   I hope when you "showed no emotion" you explained what you didn’t like, offered an acceptable alternative, and followed a consistent path for consequences.   – Ron Low Levity is the dearth of gravity.  Brevity is the height of clarity.  

Response:

Hi, They say that the arrival of a new sibling affects a child the way you would be affected if your spouse brought home a new spouse!  If you look at it from that perspective, you can see why your son is having a difficult time. Give him lots and lots of your love and attention away from the baby…you and your spouse can take turns.  Let him know that he is still loved just as much.  Also, try getting him involved in caring for the baby…have him hand you a clean diaper when you need it  for example.  4 weeks is not long…give him time and shower him with your affection.

Response:

When our daughter was born, my son was just 19 months old, and he went through an awful time, too.  Someone said to me "Imagine that your husband came home tomorrow with a new wife, and told you ‘Don’t worry, dear – I’m still going to love you just as much as ever!’  How would you take it?" That gave me something to think about.  I don’t think we can really understand what a earth-shattering occurance the birth of a sibling is. What he’s going to need is love and time, and what you’re going to need is patience coming out your ears. — Pat in Alberta – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am the proud father of a great 3yo boy.  He is bright, energetic and an > all around great kid…when he wants to be.  Recently, he has started > showing a new batch of behaviors that started very suddenly as if someone > threw a switch.  We just had a daughter 4 weeks ago, so I realize that some > of what he is doing might be a natural reaction to that.  

Response:

>What would *you* suggest?  Perhaps a good, sound spanking to reinforce >the "no-hitting" rule?  Hit him back?  I sure hope you aren’t one of the >"wonderful" teachers.

I believe there is some middle ground here.  I’m not quite sure what you mean by a good sound spanking, but yes- if this type of behavior continued I would suggest spanking.  Children don’t psychoanalyze things the way that we do.  When they are spanked they get the message that the particular behavior they have indulged in should not be repeated.   It is disgusting to see a child hitting its parents or running around inj a grocery with Mommy wringing her hands saying "Now honey…stop that…" or a child screaming and crying to get a particular toy or item (and amazingly parents who go ahead and buy said item so the child will stop screaming and crying)  What is this child learning. Where have all the parents gone? Have any of you ever wondered why (if this type of parenting was so effective) there is an increase in child/teen degenerating behaviorism. Why do we have teens giving birth in bathrooms and then killing their child and going back out to the party? Why do we have such a huge number of teens/children who have no respect for authority, themselves or anything else for that matter? The part about all of this that bothers me the most is that while my children are learning to be considerate human beings – your children are growing up thinking that somehow the universe revolves around them- and these are the individuals my children will have to deal with in the future… W.  Makah

Response:

You mentioned that you and your wife attended siminars–some hospitals offer classes for kids to go to with their parents so the child knows what to expect.  I don’t know if this would help now, but it might be worth a shot!  Good Luck

Response:

Hi, I am the proud father of a great 3yo boy.  He is bright, energetic and an all around great kid…when he wants to be.  Recently, he has started showing a new batch of behaviors that started very suddenly as if someone threw a switch.  We just had a daughter 4 weeks ago, so I realize that some of what he is doing might be a natural reaction to that.  My wife and I attended parenting seminars, programs, etc. and read all of the books that everyone else read, etc.  Most of the new behaviors are attempts to get attention.  Shawn will walk up to a friend and maybe tip over  the friend’s toy.  Then he will take the toy…throw the toy, hit the friend, etc. Steps to break this cycle appear to be useless at this point.  If we pick him up, showing no emotion, and place him in a time out, he laughs and says:  "when I get down I will hit you, hit my friend and throw the otys again."  We have tried everything to break this cycle and are getting nowhere.  Anyone with constructive ideas PLEASE reply (email). — A. John Bettencourt

Response:

 If we pick > him up, showing no emotion, and place him in a time out, he laughs and > says:  "when I get down I will hit you, hit my friend and throw the otys > again."

Wow!  He’s the most articulate, logical (conniving , and goal-oriented three year-old I’ve ever heard of!  What language!  You should be really proud of THAT, if nothing else… Anyway, I’ve never dealt with anything quite like this, but my response would be: "No, you won’t."  And I would say "We don’t hit.  Hitting is not acceptable."  I wouldn’t let him play with that child again and I’d tell him why.  Likewise, I wouldn’t play with him myself if he did hit me.  No, this isn’t a threat to abandon the child, it’s a news bulletin about the real world: kids don’t like to be hit, and neither do parents. Then I’d give him an assortment of things to hit: "If you want to hit, you may hit this pillow, this stuffed bear, this couch cushion.  When you’re done hitting maybe we’ll play some more."   I’ve always believed it makes more sense to remove the victim than to remove the child; I wouldn’t pick him up, I’d simply walk away, taking the other child with me (if at all possible), saying "OK, we don’t like hitting, so we’re going somewhere else, see ya."  It’s not so much punitive as it is simply pragmatics–whoops, hitting, we’re outa here.   I think there should be NO response to it.  He probably loves the drama of being picked up and "removed" — it makes him the star!  But if you simply walk away he has no audience. You’re right to be seeking help on this; he’ll be hitting his sister soon if you don’t.  You have to make it UTTERLY and indisputably clear that hitting WILL NOT HAPPEN, period.  He will not be permitted to hit. If time outs don’t dissuade him, find something that will.  It’s different for every kid. Oh, and give him TONS and tone of reinforcement when he DOESN’T hit.   It’s so easy to forget this, but there should be 200 yes’s for every no. Every second he plays WITHOUT hitting should be big-time celebrating. Thanks for making me feel lucky today, too.

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I agree that he’s probably feeling insecure and testing you. Some kids regress a bit when they have a new baby sibling – maybe he’s going the other way and trying to be too independant?  Telling you that he’s planning to do it AGAIN might be a way of trying to find out what happens if he pushes too far – will you still love him, will you replace him with the new baby, will you get REALLY mad? I suggest explaining to him what will happen- either that you are prepared to do time outs all night, or maybe adding one minute each time, or ending the play date, or whatever, just so he knows that what’s going to happen is a reasonable punishment and that you are still in control and still will be there for him. — If this looks funny I’m                 typing with the baby on my lap!

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I am a firm believer in establishing logical consequences to a child’s behavior.  It seems to me that the logical consequence to the scenario you described is that the play with his friend is terminated and the friend is taken home, or your child is picked and taken home from the friend’s house.  If he protests that he really wants to play with his friend, you can say something like, "Son, you took your friend’s toy, threw it, and hit your friend.  That shows me that you really don’t want to play nicely with your friend right now.  We’ll try again tomorrow."   If the problem persists, you might lengthen the time between playdates.  Eventually, he’ll get the idea that if he wants to have friends to play with, he’d better treat them fairly. By the way, it’s probably not attention that he’s craving.  I’m sure you and your wife are sensitive to his neediness now since the new baby has come.  My guess is that he’s feeling a little insecure and is testing your love for him.  I have read that sometimes children who are concerned about how much they are loved (compared to a cute little baby) will purposely be naughty with the thought, "I wonder just how much Mommy and Daddy really love me.  Would they love me even if I was really, really naughty?"   An interesting theory that makes sense to me — I have observed this same type of testing in adult relationships. Hope this helps! Margaret – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > I am the proud father of a great 3yo boy.  He is bright, energetic and an > all around great kid…when he wants to be.  Recently, he has started > showing a new batch of behaviors that started very suddenly as if someone > threw a switch.  We just had a daughter 4 weeks ago, so I realize that some > of what he is doing might be a natural reaction to that.  My wife and I > attended parenting seminars, programs, etc. and read all of the books that > everyone else read, etc.  Most of the new behaviors are attempts to get > attention.  Shawn will walk up to a friend and maybe tip over  the friend’s > toy.  Then he will take the toy…throw the toy, hit the friend, etc. > Steps to break this cycle appear to be useless at this point.  If we pick > him up, showing no emotion, and place him in a time out, he laughs and > says:  "when I get down I will hit you, hit my friend and throw the otys > again."  We have tried everything to break this cycle and are getting > nowhere.  Anyone with constructive ideas PLEASE reply (email). > — > A. John Bettencourt

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