Pure Parents

Question:

>  Well, Kim….obviously you are invested in believing that there is not a > problem with big child/adult ratios.

I am invested in believing that we should not judge others based soley on our own negative experiences. >  I do not agree that a few hours in day care is a valid comparison to > being brought into a family with half a dozen small children.

Neither do I agree that your 15 minutes with that daycare-baby you comforted is a valid comparison to *living* (as I did) in a daycare home with 4-6 infants who were well cared for. I am not saying that your negative experiences were not valid – I’m sure they were – but others have great and positive experiences (also equally valid) with large families or groups of children. Kim

Response:

<<I: Anyway, the point is still valid: the woman who is : about to have five children under the age of five : CAN care for them…and without spending a day in : her shoes/home/etc. I don’t think it is fair to accuse : her of being abusive based on the abusive situations : you have seen: tragic as they were.>> Kim….obviously you are invested in believing that there is not a problem with big child/adult ratios.") My aunt had 8 kids.  They are a close loving family.  I don’t think you should be criticizing someone of whose situation you are not completley aware.  There are people who are able to pull off large families. Obviously you are not one of them.  But don’t assume others can’t with a caring support system.

Response:

 Stop the presses and start pumping out the tots girls! We just got word from the top. Spunky girl has announced that humans can be raise in litters like puppies. Or maybe she means to spit them out like ants, or squid spawning.

: <<I: Anyway, the point is still valid: the woman who is : : about to have five children under the age of five : : CAN care for them…and without spending a day in : : her shoes/home/etc. I don’t think it is fair to accuse : : her of being abusive based on the abusive situations : : you have seen: tragic as they were.>> : Kim….obviously you are invested in believing that there is not a problem : with big child/adult ratios.") : My aunt had 8 kids.  They are a close loving family.  I don’t think you : should be criticizing someone of whose situation you are not completley : aware.  There are people who are able to pull off large families. : Obviously you are not one of them.  But don’t assume others can’t with a : caring support system. — Elaine Gallegos

Response:

 Well, Kim….obviously you are invested in believing that there is not a problem with big child/adult ratios.  I do not agree that a few hours in day care is a valid comparison to being brought into a family with half a dozen small children.

: > : > :  California childcare : > : licencing laws, as ONE of many possible examples, : > : state that the maximum infant to adult ratio is SIX : > : to one. My mother ran an infant-only daycare in : > : our home when I was in high school and served : > : from 4 – 6 babies. : > : >   I’ve been in one of those child care facilities. My next door : > neighbor/landlord had one. I would sometimes have business there, but : > dreaded going in. It reeked of excrement, and the children broke my heart. : > One little girl of maybe one yr. saw me, a complete stranger. She pulled : > herself up on the bars of her crib, and held her arms out, crying to be : > picked up. I stood there cuddling an infant I’d never seen before for : > about 15 minutes. : > : Okay, we are still confusing child abuse/neglect : with the POSSIBILITY of loving care being given : by one adult to five, or even six children. : It seems to me like you have had a lot of really : negative experiences…I can understand that. When : I was in college I wrote for a magazine as a Child : Care Center Reporter. I saw many cases of abuse : and neglect….but far more centers that were   : loving and committed to the well being of the : child. : One in particular was an infant-only center and the : place was FANTASTIC: the floor was covered in : these foam wedges for infants to crawl safely over : and they had a really structured day ("cuddle time, : story time, etc.) and – even IMO – overly strict : cleanliness rules. : Anyway, the point is still valid: the woman who is : about to have five children under the age of five : CAN care for them…and without spending a day in : her shoes/home/etc. I don’t think it is fair to accuse : her of being abusive based on the abusive situations : you have seen: tragic as they were. : Kim — Elaine Gallegos

Response:

writes: >Well, that is just what you do: you prioritize. I >have twins and many times they both want >something at the same time. I decide who’s needs >are the most critical, address them first and then >attend to the other child. With her daycare this is >what my mother did. I never saw a problem she >couldn’t handle, the babies were happy and well >cared for and the parents were pleased to see them >getting such great care. I don’t know what else to >say aside from my earlier statement that it *can* be >done.

O.K., then, obviously it can be and is being done, but *how well?*  If you have five *infants,* and it’s only you, you can tend to only one at a time so even the best of prioritizing of needs means that four babies are going to be waiting for your attentions at any given time.   The more babies, the longer some of them have to wait.  You are basically reduced to the "putting out fires"-type of parenting/caretaking, rather than being proactive in your care. The loudest, fussiest, neediest, or most mobile babies get most of the attention, while the quiet ones are always in danger of being overlooked.  Doesn’t a baby deserve to have the caretaker’s sole attention even during times when he’s doing well, just wants to play or whatever?  That is not often going to happen in the situation with five–one of them is always going to need to be fed, changed, or comforted.  And what about such activities as getting outdoors for walks?  Even if strollers for five are available, would it be advisable for one person to take five babies out alone? I stand by my original assertion that while caring for five children of different ages may be o.k., it is not such a hot idea for one person alone continually to care for five infants.  Even if it *can* be done, it *shouldn’t* be done for more than very short periods. lynn  

Response:

> The more babies, the longer some of them have to wait.  You are basically > reduced to the "putting out fires"-type of parenting/caretaking, rather > than being proactive in your care. The loudest, fussiest, neediest, or > most mobile babies get most of the attention, while the quiet ones are > always in danger of being overlooked.  

Whgile I agree in a general context: the original poster of this thread was wondering how she would handle her fourth baby and another woman piped in to say that she had five under the age of five and although it was hard, she handled it well and loved it. Having five *infants* al at once is the ultimate extreme example…I mean, even with my mom’s daycare, the kids went home at night… However, I almost think there is no "perfect" SET number of children; it is all based on the parents…and the kids will have different experiences as a result: some good and some bad. A single-only child who gets all his parent’s attention may have periods of being lonely and feel envious of kids in big families. I had only two kids for ten years and was AMAZED by how much the twins *added* to the family experience of everyonbe in our house. My older children learned to be more responsible and confident, and the babies certainly don’t suffer from all the attention they get from the four "big people" in their lives. But to be honest: it IS sometimes really hard…ON ME. My oldest son is diabtetic and my oldest daughter is entering that Pre-teen stage and the twins are nearing two and are into everything! It takes a ton of patients and a VERY organized schedule, but overall the kids have learned how to prioritize their own problems. A crying baby or a child who needs an insulin injection comes before checking homework or playing cards, but I make sure I always get back to whomever was left out earlier. I may always go to bed tired, but I don’t ever go to bed with regrets or resentment and the fact that I could even consider having another child obviously shows how much I love what I do. All I am saying is that others can too (and do!) Kim

Response:

>I can see being able to care for 5 kids of various ages, but >not 5 >infants, at once.    l.f.

Unless, of course, you are the parent of quintuplets. Mary

Response:

>>I can see being able to care for 5 kids of various ages, but >not 5 >infants, at once.    l.f. >Unless, of course, you are the parent of quintuplets. >Mary

I thought that we were talking about one person caring for five babies at once.  If I am incorrect, sorry about the mistake.   I do not know of anyone blessed with multiple babies who does not have constant help from family, friends, and even paid help to fill in the gaps.  l.f.

Response:

 I too could see a family being able to properly provide for the emotional as well as the physical needs of perhaps up to five children. That is if some were teens 15-18, some were pre-teens and one was an infant.  That ratio would be two adults to five children… I believe in fathers being present.

: >>I can see being able to care for 5 kids of various ages, but >not 5 : >>infants, at once.    l.f. : > : >Unless, of course, you are the parent of quintuplets. : > : >Mary : I thought that we were talking about one person caring for five babies at : once.  If I am incorrect, sorry about the mistake.   : I do not know of anyone blessed with multiple babies who does not have : constant help from family, friends, and even paid help to fill in the : gaps.  l.f. — Elaine Gallegos

Response:

>>I can see being able to care for 5 kids of various ages, but >not 5 >infants, at once.    l.f. >Unless, of course, you are the parent of quintuplets.

In Illinois, the ratio applicable to accredited daycare centers is 4:1, and these people get paid breaks and lunch.  Also, about a third of the mom’s at my kids’ school show up at lunch to nurse their babies, and some of us dad’s drop in when we can just to play.  My youngest is 22 months now, but when she was an infant, sometimes I would show up when she happened to be asleep, so I’d play with the other babies.   – Ron Low Levity is the dearth of gravity.  Brevity is the height of clarity.  

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