Question:
> A Baby is Born > The baby, having just been born and having exited one type of world and entered > into a whole new world, emerges into the hands of a total stranger
Stranger? As opposed to the multitudes of people he/she has been formally introduced to whilst still in the womb???? wondered The BEAST
Response:
Oh NO! not AGAIN!!! Be gone wee troll…. Sarah
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> A Baby is Born > Contemplate for a moment the way that so many babies have been brought into this > world, in this society. > The mother, compelled by her inability to accept the pain of childbirth and on > the advice of essential strangers, coerces impending birth by pushing hard on > her baby in a way that unnaturally confuses her contractions, and that applies > an unnecessary force and provides a seemingly unrelenting duress and pressure > that distresses and threatens the fragile form of the soon to be born baby. > The baby, having just been born and having exited one type of world and entered > into a whole new world, emerges into the hands of a total stranger, who then, > with a firmness and confidence that bespeaks of the baby’s parents, grabs the > baby by its ankles and turns the baby upside down; the baby’s greeting into this > world will be a firm slap on its butt by a stranger, as the baby hangs > helplessly upside down, as waves of blood surge into the baby’s brain, and as > the baby’s underdeveloped body struggles to maintain its newly born structural > integrity against the forces of gravity. Or perhaps instead, more luckily, a > total stranger harshly shoves a plastic tube down the baby’s throat in an > apparent attempt to pry open that small and very sensitive opening and further > to induce the newborn baby to cry, and even perhaps the baby is grabbed by the > scruff of the neck and by the butt by a stranger and is recklessly raised naked > high up into the air for display. > Strangers will then necessarily cut the connection between the baby and its > mother, will then vigorously and violently wipe the baby clean of the fluids of > birth, and then the baby, having lived comfortably within its mother’s womb for > all its life and now under the control of strangers, is hesitantly allowed to > spend a few moments with its mother, a few moments of bonding with one of the > baby’s creators, but is then almost immediately handed to another stranger, is > wrapped up in materials that would comfort and warm the baby no more than being > held close by its mother, and is then carted off to a room full of other babies > who have just gone through the same thing, many of them screaming and crying, > and all of them experiencing a certain loneliness that they have not before > known in their entire short existence. > A few days later, if the baby is a boy, the baby is most likely taken again by > strangers, placed spread-eagle on his back on a board as his arms and legs are > strapped down so that he can not move. His genitals are scrubbed and covered > with antiseptic by one of the strangers. The foreskin of his penis, still > attached to his glans as a matter of birth, is torn from the glans and slit > lengthwise so that a sharp cutting instrument can be inserted. Then the baby’s > foreskin is cut off by one of the strangers, usually without anesthetic, while > the baby screams frantically, defecates, lapses into a coma; or falls into a > state of shock from which he cannot even scream his pain and terror. > For the next seven to ten days, while one of the most sensitive parts of the > baby’s body is healing, the baby is given no pain medication. As the baby > screams and cries from his alienation and his pain, his parents fail to hold and > comfort him, as they have been told that it is not a good idea to hold their > baby too much, having usually been given that advice by some of the same > strangers who were around the baby when he came into this world. > This is how so many babies have spent the first two weeks of their life on this > world. The horror and terror will continue later as the baby may soon discover > that the baby’s parents are under the "protection" and "control" of some of > those strangers who did all those things to the baby, and those very same people > intend to continue to share advice with the baby’s parents, such advice which > will just add to the horror and terror that the baby will be forced to > experience in its life. > Such horror and terror will sometimes take the form of the baby being fed the > mother’s milk of strange animals or the chemical concoctions of corporations, > instead of being nurtured close to mother’s breast and feeding on mother > nature’s natural nutrition. Baby may also soon be shunned into prison-like > constructs such as cribs and playpens and strollers, products that were > manufactured, recommended, and sold by the associates of the same strangers who > so rudely helped bring the baby into the world in the first place, instead of > sleeping and necessarily doing their nightly business in the same bed as Mommy > and Daddy and as opposed to being slung close to the bosom of Mommy and Daddy > and being within close proximity of their immediately attention and nurturing as > they necessarily go about their own daily business. > Later on, the first word that the baby will learn, and the word most often > spoken to the baby and around the baby, will most likely be the word "no," used > by the baby’s parents like a veritable primary instruction which the baby > eventually interprets as apparently being designed to prevent the baby from > reaching out into the world and exploring life. As the baby grows, there will be > more and more restrictions placed on its actions, restrictions which the baby > little understands and which, by the nature of their being as babies and > children, they little know may be an attempt to prevent them from causing harm > to themselves or to other people and property. > The imposed horror and terror of the prisoner-like nature of its existence, will > soon cause the baby to grow up into a child who will continually seek freedom of > expression, and whose primary desire in life may eventually turn out to be > liberating themselves from the wardens who were once parents who instead have > become what the child believes are now its primary enemies in life and the > people who are trying to keep them from exploring the world, learning the > lessons of civilization, and discovering the truth about life in the Universe. > Soon enough, the horror and terror will become such a regular and normal part of > the child’s life and the child will become so accustomed to all the alienation > and pain, that the child will not even realize that it is truly horror and > terror; the child will soon learn to embrace and accept most of what has > happened, and will begin to inflict some of that same horror and terror on other > people, perhaps on the child’s parents, and most likely, unfortunately, on the > child’s own children. Even worse, perhaps, will be, if the child, instead of > learning to lash out at the people and the society which abused the child, > withdraws into its own private little world and rejects that society and those > people who have inflicted such pain and suffering, and horror and terror, upon > the child, and becomes what has been described as "autistic" to the world which > treated that beautiful child with so little regard. > God bless that child, and God bless every child that comes into this world, and > any other world, in the Universes of Infinity. > An Alternative Method of Birthing and Caring for Babies? > Having seen the rule, how about an alternative that could serve as an exception > and which might one day become mainstream? > Mommy and Daddy are nude in a small pool in a dimly lit room. The water in the > pool is heated to a comfortable temperature close to that of the womb. The baby > is birthed under water, and by the baby’s Daddy. Yes, after having lived in > Mommy’s womb for all its life, the first person with whom the baby connects will > be Daddy, because Daddy will birth the baby! After birth, the baby is kept under > water for a few seconds, and then the baby’s head is brought above the water > line while the baby is caressed between Mommy and Daddy. The umbilical cord and > afterbirth are cleared from Mommy by Daddy while baby remains in their caress, > and after a few minutes more, when it stops pulsating, the umbilical cord is cut > at the baby by Daddy, while the baby’s body is still under water. > Mommy and Daddy continue to caress baby for several minutes, talking softly and > reassuring the baby in a way that the baby can feel their warm and comforting > breath on its face, until finally they slowly remove baby from the water as they > continue to caress the baby between them. The baby never leaves the arms of its > Mommy and Daddy, and is taken to a bed where the baby will lie in caress with > Mommy and Daddy until falling asleep. At that time, the baby can be checked by a > trained professional and can be removed to home, if not home already. > Of course, while baby was in the womb, Mommy and Daddy played beautiful music > for baby to enjoy, and all the time Mommy was pregnant she has been drinking a > regimen of natural herbal teas, and using other herbal supplements, perhaps > ginseng and perhaps bee pollen; and she will have healthy and nutritious breast > milk for her baby. Baby will never be more than a few feet away from any parent > at any time, and will often be in the arms of Mommy or Daddy. In fact, the > favorite place of the baby will be in the arms of Mommy or Daddy, and the baby > will sleep in the same bed as Mommy and Daddy for as long as the baby wants, > until the baby says it wants a bed of its own. And the baby will often be > carried by Mommy and Daddy close to their bosoms, slung near to their hearts and > within close proximity of their immediate attention and nurturing. Mommy and > Daddy will gently massage baby whenever they can, soothing baby with their > loving touch, and when the baby is alone and cries, the baby will be attended to > immediately by Mommy or Daddy, and
… read more »
Response:
> I bet you wish you could just crawl back up into your mummys womb and > escape from this cold cruel world. > Loev, > Poopie pnats
Gee, we wish he would too!!! Marion——Tampamom to Louis(7.5) and Erica(3.5) — Tomorrow is a mystery Yesterday is history Today is a gift…that’s why it’s called "The Present" All children are gifted. Some just haven’t opened their packages yet.
Response:
<snip inflammatory nonsense> How many times must you post the same incorrect, agenda-filled garbage and be told as much by the posters, before you will go back into hiding under your little bridge and stay there permanently? Marion——-Tampamom to Louis(7.5) and Erica(3.5) — Tomorrow is a mystery Yesterday is history Today is a gift…that’s why it’s called "The Present" All children are gifted. Some just haven’t opened their packages yet.
Response:
> <snip inflammatory nonsense> > How many times must you post the same incorrect, agenda-filled garbage > and be told as much by the posters, before you will go back into hiding > under your little bridge and stay there permanently?
he’s at it on many parenting ng’s: and apparently getting the same response throughout. I wonder if he will learn? Naw, he just wants to get a rise from trolling bait along in the water…. -Aula
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->A Baby is Born >Contemplate for a moment the way that so many babies have been brought into this >world, in this society. >The mother, compelled by her inability to accept the pain of childbirth and on >the advice of essential strangers, coerces impending birth by pushing hard on >her baby in a way that unnaturally confuses her contractions, and that applies >an unnecessary force and provides a seemingly unrelenting duress and pressure >that distresses and threatens the fragile form of the soon to be born baby. >The baby, having just been born and having exited one type of world and entered >into a whole new world, emerges into the hands of a total stranger, who then, >with a firmness and confidence that bespeaks of the baby’s parents, grabs the >baby by its ankles and turns the baby upside down; the baby’s greeting into this >world will be a firm slap on its butt by a stranger, as the baby hangs >helplessly upside down, as waves of blood surge into the baby’s brain, and as >the baby’s underdeveloped body struggles to maintain its newly born structural >integrity against the forces of gravity. Or perhaps instead, more luckily, a >total stranger harshly shoves a plastic tube down the baby’s throat in an >apparent attempt to pry open that small and very sensitive opening and further >to induce the newborn baby to cry, and even perhaps the baby is grabbed by the >scruff of the neck and by the butt by a stranger and is recklessly raised naked >high up into the air for display. >Strangers will then necessarily cut the connection between the baby and its >mother, will then vigorously and violently wipe the baby clean of the fluids of >birth, and then the baby, having lived comfortably within its mother’s womb for >all its life and now under the control of strangers, is hesitantly allowed to >spend a few moments with its mother, a few moments of bonding with one of the >baby’s creators, but is then almost immediately handed to another stranger, is >wrapped up in materials that would comfort and warm the baby no more than being >held close by its mother, and is then carted off to a room full of other babies >who have just gone through the same thing, many of them screaming and crying, >and all of them experiencing a certain loneliness that they have not before >known in their entire short existence. >A few days later, if the baby is a boy, the baby is most likely taken again by >strangers, placed spread-eagle on his back on a board as his arms and legs are >strapped down so that he can not move. His genitals are scrubbed and covered >with antiseptic by one of the strangers. The foreskin of his penis, still >attached to his glans as a matter of birth, is torn from the glans and slit >lengthwise so that a sharp cutting instrument can be inserted. Then the baby’s >foreskin is cut off by one of the strangers, usually without anesthetic, while >the baby screams frantically, defecates, lapses into a coma; or falls into a >state of shock from which he cannot even scream his pain and terror.
This isn’t how it goes. Have you actually witnessed a circ? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->For the next seven to ten days, while one of the most sensitive parts of the >baby’s body is healing, the baby is given no pain medication. As the baby >screams and cries from his alienation and his pain, his parents fail to hold and >comfort him, as they have been told that it is not a good idea to hold their >baby too much, having usually been given that advice by some of the same >strangers who were around the baby when he came into this world. >This is how so many babies have spent the first two weeks of their life on this >world. The horror and terror will continue later as the baby may soon discover >that the baby’s parents are under the "protection" and "control" of some of >those strangers who did all those things to the baby, and those very same people >intend to continue to share advice with the baby’s parents, such advice which >will just add to the horror and terror that the baby will be forced to >experience in its life. >Such horror and terror will sometimes take the form of the baby being fed the >mother’s milk of strange animals or the chemical concoctions of corporations, >instead of being nurtured close to mother’s breast and feeding on mother >nature’s natural nutrition. Baby may also soon be shunned into prison-like >constructs such as cribs and playpens and strollers, products that were >manufactured, recommended, and sold by the associates of the same strangers who >so rudely helped bring the baby into the world in the first place, instead of >sleeping and necessarily doing their nightly business in the same bed as Mommy >and Daddy and as opposed to being slung close to the bosom of Mommy and Daddy >and being within close proximity of their immediately attention and nurturing as >they necessarily go about their own daily business. >Later on, the first word that the baby will learn, and the word most often >spoken to the baby and around the baby, will most likely be the word "no," used >by the baby’s parents like a veritable primary instruction which the baby >eventually interprets as apparently being designed to prevent the baby from >reaching out into the world and exploring life. As the baby grows, there will be >more and more restrictions placed on its actions, restrictions which the baby >little understands and which, by the nature of their being as babies and >children, they little know may be an attempt to prevent them from causing harm >to themselves or to other people and property. >The imposed horror and terror of the prisoner-like nature of its existence, will >soon cause the baby to grow up into a child who will continually seek freedom of >expression, and whose primary desire in life may eventually turn out to be >liberating themselves from the wardens who were once parents who instead have >become what the child believes are now its primary enemies in life and the >people who are trying to keep them from exploring the world, learning the >lessons of civilization, and discovering the truth about life in the Universe. >Soon enough, the horror and terror will become such a regular and normal part of >the child’s life and the child will become so accustomed to all the alienation >and pain, that the child will not even realize that it is truly horror and >terror; the child will soon learn to embrace and accept most of what has >happened, and will begin to inflict some of that same horror and terror on other >people, perhaps on the child’s parents, and most likely, unfortunately, on the >child’s own children. Even worse, perhaps, will be, if the child, instead of >learning to lash out at the people and the society which abused the child, >withdraws into its own private little world and rejects that society and those >people who have inflicted such pain and suffering, and horror and terror, upon >the child, and becomes what has been described as "autistic" to the world which >treated that beautiful child with so little regard. >God bless that child, and God bless every child that comes into this world, and >any other world, in the Universes of Infinity. >An Alternative Method of Birthing and Caring for Babies? >Having seen the rule, how about an alternative that could serve as an exception >and which might one day become mainstream? >Mommy and Daddy are nude in a small pool in a dimly lit room. The water in the >pool is heated to a comfortable temperature close to that of the womb. The baby >is birthed under water, and by the baby’s Daddy. Yes, after having lived in >Mommy’s womb for all its life, the first person with whom the baby connects will >be Daddy, because Daddy will birth the baby! After birth, the baby is kept under >water for a few seconds, and then the baby’s head is brought above the water >line while the baby is caressed between Mommy and Daddy. The umbilical cord and >afterbirth are cleared from Mommy by Daddy while baby remains in their caress, >and after a few minutes more, when it stops pulsating, the umbilical cord is cut >at the baby by Daddy, while the baby’s body is still under water. >Mommy and Daddy continue to caress baby for several minutes, talking softly and >reassuring the baby in a way that the baby can feel their warm and comforting >breath on its face, until finally they slowly remove baby from the water as they >continue to caress the baby between them. The baby never leaves the arms of its >Mommy and Daddy, and is taken to a bed where the baby will lie in caress with >Mommy and Daddy until falling asleep. At that time, the baby can be checked by a >trained professional and can be removed to home, if not home already. >Of course, while baby was in the womb, Mommy and Daddy played beautiful music >for baby to enjoy, and all the time Mommy was pregnant she has been drinking a >regimen of natural herbal teas, and using other herbal supplements, perhaps >ginseng and perhaps bee pollen; and she will have healthy and nutritious breast >milk for her baby. Baby will never be more than a few feet away from any parent >at any time, and will often be in the arms of Mommy or Daddy. In fact, the >favorite place of the baby will be in the arms of Mommy or Daddy, and the baby >will sleep in the same bed as Mommy and Daddy for as long as the baby wants, >until the baby says it wants a bed of its own. And the baby will often be >carried by Mommy and Daddy close to their bosoms, slung near to their hearts and >within close proximity of their immediate attention and nurturing. Mommy and >Daddy will gently massage baby whenever they can, soothing baby with their >loving touch, and when the baby is alone and cries, the baby will be attended to >immediately by Mommy or Daddy, and will never long for the caress of either >parent. >As the baby matures, Mommy and Daddy will never deny any love or attention to >the baby,
… read more »
Response:
A Baby is Born Contemplate for a moment the way that so many babies have been brought into this world, in this society. The mother, compelled by her inability to accept the pain of childbirth and on the advice of essential strangers, coerces impending birth by pushing hard on her baby in a way that unnaturally confuses her contractions, and that applies an unnecessary force and provides a seemingly unrelenting duress and pressure that distresses and threatens the fragile form of the soon to be born baby. The baby, having just been born and having exited one type of world and entered into a whole new world, emerges into the hands of a total stranger, who then, with a firmness and confidence that bespeaks of the baby’s parents, grabs the baby by its ankles and turns the baby upside down; the baby’s greeting into this world will be a firm slap on its butt by a stranger, as the baby hangs helplessly upside down, as waves of blood surge into the baby’s brain, and as the baby’s underdeveloped body struggles to maintain its newly born structural integrity against the forces of gravity. Or perhaps instead, more luckily, a total stranger harshly shoves a plastic tube down the baby’s throat in an apparent attempt to pry open that small and very sensitive opening and further to induce the newborn baby to cry, and even perhaps the baby is grabbed by the scruff of the neck and by the butt by a stranger and is recklessly raised naked high up into the air for display. Strangers will then necessarily cut the connection between the baby and its mother, will then vigorously and violently wipe the baby clean of the fluids of birth, and then the baby, having lived comfortably within its mother’s womb for all its life and now under the control of strangers, is hesitantly allowed to spend a few moments with its mother, a few moments of bonding with one of the baby’s creators, but is then almost immediately handed to another stranger, is wrapped up in materials that would comfort and warm the baby no more than being held close by its mother, and is then carted off to a room full of other babies who have just gone through the same thing, many of them screaming and crying, and all of them experiencing a certain loneliness that they have not before known in their entire short existence. A few days later, if the baby is a boy, the baby is most likely taken again by strangers, placed spread-eagle on his back on a board as his arms and legs are strapped down so that he can not move. His genitals are scrubbed and covered with antiseptic by one of the strangers. The foreskin of his penis, still attached to his glans as a matter of birth, is torn from the glans and slit lengthwise so that a sharp cutting instrument can be inserted. Then the baby’s foreskin is cut off by one of the strangers, usually without anesthetic, while the baby screams frantically, defecates, lapses into a coma; or falls into a state of shock from which he cannot even scream his pain and terror. For the next seven to ten days, while one of the most sensitive parts of the baby’s body is healing, the baby is given no pain medication. As the baby screams and cries from his alienation and his pain, his parents fail to hold and comfort him, as they have been told that it is not a good idea to hold their baby too much, having usually been given that advice by some of the same strangers who were around the baby when he came into this world. This is how so many babies have spent the first two weeks of their life on this world. The horror and terror will continue later as the baby may soon discover that the baby’s parents are under the "protection" and "control" of some of those strangers who did all those things to the baby, and those very same people intend to continue to share advice with the baby’s parents, such advice which will just add to the horror and terror that the baby will be forced to experience in its life. Such horror and terror will sometimes take the form of the baby being fed the mother’s milk of strange animals or the chemical concoctions of corporations, instead of being nurtured close to mother’s breast and feeding on mother nature’s natural nutrition. Baby may also soon be shunned into prison-like constructs such as cribs and playpens and strollers, products that were manufactured, recommended, and sold by the associates of the same strangers who so rudely helped bring the baby into the world in the first place, instead of sleeping and necessarily doing their nightly business in the same bed as Mommy and Daddy and as opposed to being slung close to the bosom of Mommy and Daddy and being within close proximity of their immediately attention and nurturing as they necessarily go about their own daily business. Later on, the first word that the baby will learn, and the word most often spoken to the baby and around the baby, will most likely be the word "no," used by the baby’s parents like a veritable primary instruction which the baby eventually interprets as apparently being designed to prevent the baby from reaching out into the world and exploring life. As the baby grows, there will be more and more restrictions placed on its actions, restrictions which the baby little understands and which, by the nature of their being as babies and children, they little know may be an attempt to prevent them from causing harm to themselves or to other people and property. The imposed horror and terror of the prisoner-like nature of its existence, will soon cause the baby to grow up into a child who will continually seek freedom of expression, and whose primary desire in life may eventually turn out to be liberating themselves from the wardens who were once parents who instead have become what the child believes are now its primary enemies in life and the people who are trying to keep them from exploring the world, learning the lessons of civilization, and discovering the truth about life in the Universe. Soon enough, the horror and terror will become such a regular and normal part of the child’s life and the child will become so accustomed to all the alienation and pain, that the child will not even realize that it is truly horror and terror; the child will soon learn to embrace and accept most of what has happened, and will begin to inflict some of that same horror and terror on other people, perhaps on the child’s parents, and most likely, unfortunately, on the child’s own children. Even worse, perhaps, will be, if the child, instead of learning to lash out at the people and the society which abused the child, withdraws into its own private little world and rejects that society and those people who have inflicted such pain and suffering, and horror and terror, upon the child, and becomes what has been described as "autistic" to the world which treated that beautiful child with so little regard. God bless that child, and God bless every child that comes into this world, and any other world, in the Universes of Infinity. An Alternative Method of Birthing and Caring for Babies? Having seen the rule, how about an alternative that could serve as an exception and which might one day become mainstream? Mommy and Daddy are nude in a small pool in a dimly lit room. The water in the pool is heated to a comfortable temperature close to that of the womb. The baby is birthed under water, and by the baby’s Daddy. Yes, after having lived in Mommy’s womb for all its life, the first person with whom the baby connects will be Daddy, because Daddy will birth the baby! After birth, the baby is kept under water for a few seconds, and then the baby’s head is brought above the water line while the baby is caressed between Mommy and Daddy. The umbilical cord and afterbirth are cleared from Mommy by Daddy while baby remains in their caress, and after a few minutes more, when it stops pulsating, the umbilical cord is cut at the baby by Daddy, while the baby’s body is still under water. Mommy and Daddy continue to caress baby for several minutes, talking softly and reassuring the baby in a way that the baby can feel their warm and comforting breath on its face, until finally they slowly remove baby from the water as they continue to caress the baby between them. The baby never leaves the arms of its Mommy and Daddy, and is taken to a bed where the baby will lie in caress with Mommy and Daddy until falling asleep. At that time, the baby can be checked by a trained professional and can be removed to home, if not home already. Of course, while baby was in the womb, Mommy and Daddy played beautiful music for baby to enjoy, and all the time Mommy was pregnant she has been drinking a regimen of natural herbal teas, and using other herbal supplements, perhaps ginseng and perhaps bee pollen; and she will have healthy and nutritious breast milk for her baby. Baby will never be more than a few feet away from any parent at any time, and will often be in the arms of Mommy or Daddy. In fact, the favorite place of the baby will be in the arms of Mommy or Daddy, and the baby will sleep in the same bed as Mommy and Daddy for as long as the baby wants, until the baby says it wants a bed of its own. And the baby will often be carried by Mommy and Daddy close to their bosoms, slung near to their hearts and within close proximity of their immediate attention and nurturing. Mommy and Daddy will gently massage baby whenever they can, soothing baby with their loving touch, and when the baby is alone and cries, the baby will be attended to immediately by Mommy or Daddy, and will never long for the caress of either parent. As the baby matures, Mommy and Daddy will never deny any love or attention to the baby, will never physically harm the baby or deny any of its needs, and the baby will receive 24 hour attention and all the love of the baby’s parents. Now, don’t you think the world would be a little better place if more children were born into it in this manner? ~ Waterbirth Website – … read more »
Response:
> I heard violins playing and saw fairies dancing around me too!!!!! > Don’t know what planet you come from or how long ago you were personally in > a delivery room…….obviously not in the last twenty years.
Our local hospital used delivery rooms until about 8 yrs ago.
Response:
| > Don’t know what planet you come from or how long ago you were personally | in | > a delivery room…….obviously not in the last twenty years. | | Our local hospital used delivery rooms until about 8 yrs ago. I don’t think "Us2" meant that delivery rooms disappeared 20 years ago. After all, it’s just a name – any room set up to deliver babies could be called a delivery room, although there are many other names for them. It’s the description of the (non-water) birth that is so bizarrely out-of-date that this author can’t possibly have witnessed a "normal" hospital birth in the last 20 years or so. Held upside down and smacked on the backside? I don’t even know if that ever really *was* common procedure, or just a movie cliche – certainly no doctor or midwife would do that today. And that’s just taking the first obvious bit of weirdness. The whole piece comes across as nothing but a scare story to try to fool first-time moms-to-be into assuming that they have only two choices, and that the mom who chooses wrongly will have a horrible experience and her child will be scarred for life. Utter nonsense. There are so many options! – Cindy Kandolf, mamma to Kenneth (5 years), expecting flod2k in Feb. Bilingual Families Web Page: http://www.nethelp.no/cindy/biling-fam.html
Response:
I heard violins playing and saw fairies dancing around me too!!!!! Don’t know what planet you come from or how long ago you were personally in a delivery room…….obviously not in the last twenty years.
> A Baby is Born > Let us contemplate for a moment the way that so many babies have been brought into this > world, in this society. > The baby, having just been born and having exited one type of world and entered into a > whole new world, emerges into the hands of a total stranger, who then, with a firmness and > confidence that bespeaks of the baby’s parents, grabs the baby by its
ankles and turns the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> baby upside down; the baby’s greeting into this world will be a firm slap on its butt by a > stranger, as the baby hangs helplessly upside down, as waves of blood surge into the > baby’s brain, and as the baby’s underdeveloped body struggles to maintain its newly born > structural integrity against the forces of gravity. Or perhaps instead, more luckily, the > baby has a plastic tube harshly shoved down its throat by the total stranger that pries > open that very sensitive and small opening and induces the newborn baby to cry, and is > perhaps grabbed by the scruff of the neck and by the butt by a stranger and is recklessly > raised naked high up into the air. > Strangers will then necessarily cut the connection between the baby and its mother, will > then vigorously and violently wipe the baby clean of the blood of birth, and then the > baby, having lived comfortably within its mother’s womb for all its life and now under the > control of strangers, is hesitantly allowed to spend a few moments with its mother, a few > moments of bonding with one of the baby’s creators, but is then almost immediately handed > to another stranger, is wrapped up in materials that would comfort and warm the baby no > more than being held close by its mother, and is then carted off to a room full of other > babies who have just gone through the same thing, many of them screaming and crying, and > all of them experiencing a certain loneliness that they have not known in their entire > short existence. > A few days later, if the baby is a boy, the baby is most likely taken again by strangers, > placed spread-eagle on his back on a board as his arms and legs are
strapped down so that – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> he can’t move. His genitals are scrubbed and covered with antiseptic by one of the > strangers. The foreskin of his penis, still attached to his glans as a matter of birth, is > torn from the glans and slit lengthwise so that a sharp cutting instrument can be > inserted. Then the baby’s foreskin is cut off by one of the strangers, usually without > anesthetic, while the baby screams frantically, defecates, lapses into a coma; or falls > into a state of shock from which he cannot even scream his pain and terror. > For the next seven to ten days, while one of the most sensitive parts of the baby’s body > is healing, the baby is given no pain medication. As the baby screams and cries from his > alienation and his pain, his parents fail to hold and comfort him, as they have been told > that it is not a good idea to hold their baby too much, having usually been given that > advice by some of the same strangers who were around the baby when he came into this > world. > This is how most baby boys have spent the first two weeks of their life on this world. The > horror and terror will continue later, for both male and female babies, as the baby will > soon discover that it is under the "protection" and "control" of the very same people who > allowed all those strangers to do all those things to the baby; under the protection and > control of its "parents" for the next several years of its life. Worse than that, the > baby’s parents may be under the "protection" and "control" of some of those strangers who > did all those things to the baby, and those very same people intend to continue to share > advice with the baby’s parents, such advice which will just add to the horror and terror > that the baby will be forced to experience in its life. > Such horror and terror will sometimes take the form of the baby being fed the mother’s > milk of strange animals or the chemical concoctions of corporations, as opposed to being > nurtured close to mother’s breast and feeding on mother nature’s natural nutrition. Baby > may also soon be shunned into prison-like constructs such as cribs and playpens and > strollers, products that were manufactured, recommended, and sold by the associates of the > same strangers who so rudely helped bring the baby into the world in the first place, as > opposed to sleeping and necessarily doing their nightly business in the same bed as Mommy > and Daddy, and as opposed to being slung close to the bosom of Mommy and Daddy and being > within close proximity of their immediately attention and nurturing as they necessarily go > about their daily business. > Later on, the first word that the baby will learn, and the word most often spoken to the > baby and around the baby, will most likely be the word "no," flung around by Mommy and > Daddy like a veritable primary instruction which the baby eventually interprets as > apparently being designed to prevent the baby from reaching out into the world and > exploring. As the baby grows, there will be more and more restrictions placed on its > actions, restrictions which the baby little understands and which, by the nature of their > being as babies and children, they little know may be an attempt to prevent them from > causing harm to themselves or to other people and property. > The imposed horror and terror of the prisoner-like nature of its
existence, will soon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> cause the baby to grow up into a child who will continually seek freedom of expression, > and whose primary desire in life may eventually turn out to be liberating themselves from > the wardens who were once parents and who instead have become what the child believes are > now its primary enemies in life, and the people who are trying to keep them from exploring > the world, learning the lessons of civilization, and discovering the truth about life in > the Universe. > Soon enough, the horror and terror will become such a regular and normal part of the > child’s life and the child will become so accustomed to all the alienation and pain, that > the child will not even realize that it is truly horror and terror; the child will soon > learn to embrace and accept most of what has happened, and will begin to inflict some of > that same horror and terror on other people, perhaps on the child’s parents, and most > likely, unfortunately, on the child’s own children. Even worse, perhaps, will be if the > child, instead of learning to lash out at the people and the society which abused the > child, withdraws into its own private little world and rejects that society and those > people who have inflicted such pain and suffering, and horror and terror, upon the child, > and becomes what has been described as "autistic" to the world which treated that > beautiful child with so little regard. > God bless that child, and God bless every child that comes into this
world, and any other – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> world, in the Universes of Infinity. > An Alternative Method of Birthing and Caring for Babies? > Having seen the rule, how about an alternative that could serve as an exception and which > might one day become mainstream? > Mommy and Daddy are nude in a small pool. The water in the pool is heated to a temperature > close to that of the womb. The baby is birthed under water, and by the baby’s Daddy. Yes, > after having lived in Mommy’s womb for all its life, the first person with whom the baby > connects will be Daddy, because Daddy will birth the baby! After birth, the baby is kept > under water for a few seconds, and then the baby’s head is brought above the water line > while the baby is caressed between Mommy and Daddy. The umbilical cord and afterbirth are > cleared from Mommy by Daddy while baby remains in their caress, and after a few minutes > more, the umbilical cord is cut at the baby by Daddy, while the baby’s body is still under > water. > Mommy and Daddy continue to caress baby for several minutes, talking
softly and reassuring > the baby in a way that the baby can feel their warm and comforting breath on its face, > until finally they slowly remove baby from the water as they continue to caress the baby > between them. The baby never leaves the arms of its Mommy and Daddy, and is taken to a bed > where the baby will lie in caress with Mommy and Daddy until falling
asleep. At that time, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> the baby can be checked by a doctor and can be removed to home, if not home already. > Of course, while Mommy was pregnant she has been drinking a regimen of natural herbal > teas, and using other herbal supplements, perhaps ginseng and perhaps bee pollen; and she > will have healthy and nutritious breast milk for her baby. Baby will never be more than a > few feet away from any parent at any time, and will often be in the arms of Mommy or > Daddy. In fact, the favored place of the baby will be in the arms of Mommy or Daddy, and > the baby will sleep in the same bed as Mommy and Daddy for as long as the baby wants, > until the baby says it wants a bed of its own. And the baby will often be carried by Mommy > and Daddy close to their bosoms, slung near to their hearts and within close proximity of > their immediate attention and nurturing. And when the baby is alone and cries, the baby > will be attended to immediately by Mommy or Daddy, and will never long for the caress of > either parent. > As the baby matures, Mommy and Daddy will never deny any love or attention to the baby, > will never physically harm the baby or deny any of its needs, and the baby will receive 24 > hour attention and all the
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Response:
Look at my www.trustedcare.com for natural baby products like Liqeiid Natural Baby Powder. What you put on your baby soaks into the skin. It should be natural. Wayne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The AAP is neutral because, like the article says, while the health > benefits may be minimal, there is rarely any harm. Additionally, since > circumcision IS a part of a required religious ceremony for some people, > they don’t want to be seen interfering with that. > Marion—–Tampamom to Louis(6) and Erica(2) >http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/DailyNews/circumcision000110.html >>Excellent! I wonder why the American Association of Pediatrics is >cautiously >>neutral about circumcision – perhaps, its because flossing one’s teeth(or >>such) is a whole lot easier than cleaning under the foreskin? >>RS >>>A Baby is Born >>>Let us contemplate for a moment the way that so many babies have been >>brought into this >>>world, in this society. >>>The baby, having just been born and having exited one type of world and >>entered into a >>>whole new world, emerges into the hands of a total stranger, who then, >with >>a firmness and >>>confidence that bespeaks of the baby’s parents, grabs the baby by its >>ankles and turns the >>>baby upside down; the baby’s greeting into this world will be a firm slap >>on its butt by a >>>stranger, as the baby hangs helplessly upside down, as waves of blood >surge >>into the >>>baby’s brain, and as the baby’s underdeveloped body struggles to maintain >>its newly born >>>structural integrity against the forces of gravity. Or perhaps instead, >>more luckily, the >>>baby has a plastic tube harshly shoved down its throat by the total >>stranger that pries >>>open that very sensitive and small opening and induces the newborn baby > to >>cry, and is >>>perhaps grabbed by the scruff of the neck and by the butt by a stranger >and >>is recklessly >>>raised naked high up into the air. >>>Strangers will then necessarily cut the connection between the baby and >its >>mother, will >>>then vigorously and violently wipe the baby clean of the blood of birth, >>and then the >>>baby, having lived comfortably within its mother’s womb for all its life >>and now under the >>>control of strangers, is hesitantly allowed to spend a few moments with >its >>mother, a few >>>moments of bonding with one of the baby’s creators, but is then almost >>immediately handed >>>to another stranger, is wrapped up in materials that would comfort and >warm >>the baby no >>>more than being held close by its mother, and is then carted off to a > room >>full of other >>>babies who have just gone through the same thing, many of them screaming >>and crying, and >>>all of them experiencing a certain loneliness that they have not known in >>their entire >>>short existence. >>>A few days later, if the baby is a boy, the baby is most likely taken >again >>by strangers, >>>placed spread-eagle on his back on a board as his arms and legs are >>strapped down so that >>>he can’t move. His genitals are scrubbed and covered with antiseptic by >one >>of the >>>strangers. The foreskin of his penis, still attached to his glans as a >>matter of birth, is >>>torn from the glans and slit lengthwise so that a sharp cutting > instrument >>can be >>>inserted. Then the baby’s foreskin is cut off by one of the strangers, >>usually without >>>anesthetic, while the baby screams frantically, defecates, lapses into a >>coma; or falls >>>into a state of shock from which he cannot even scream his pain and >terror. >>>For the next seven to ten days, while one of the most sensitive parts of >>the baby’s body >>>is healing, the baby is given no pain medication. As the baby screams and >>cries from his >>>alienation and his pain, his parents fail to hold and comfort him, as > they >>have been told >>>that it is not a good idea to hold their baby too much, having usually >been >>given that >>>advice by some of the same strangers who were around the baby when he > came >>into this >>>world. >>>This is how most baby boys have spent the first two weeks of their life > on >>this world. The >>>horror and terror will continue later, for both male and female babies, > as >>the baby will >>>soon discover that it is under the "protection" and "control" of the very >>same people who >>>allowed all those strangers to do all those things to the baby; under the >>protection and >>>control of its "parents" for the next several years of its life. Worse >than >>that, the >>>baby’s parents may be under the "protection" and "control" of some of >those >>strangers who >>>did all those things to the baby, and those very same people intend to >>continue to share >>>advice with the baby’s parents, such advice which will just add to the >>horror and terror >>>that the baby will be forced to experience in its life. >>>Such horror and terror will sometimes take the form of the baby being fed >>the mother’s >>>milk of strange animals or the chemical concoctions of corporations, as >>opposed to being >>>nurtured close to mother’s breast and feeding on mother nature’s natural >>nutrition. Baby >>>may also soon be shunned into prison-like constructs such as cribs and >>playpens and >>>strollers, products that were manufactured, recommended, and sold by the >>associates of the >>>same strangers who so rudely helped bring the baby into the world in the >>first place, as >>>opposed to sleeping and necessarily doing their nightly business in the >>same bed as Mommy >>>and Daddy, and as opposed to being slung close to the bosom of Mommy and >>Daddy and being >>>within close proximity of their immediately attention and nurturing as >they >>necessarily go >>>about their daily business. >>>Later on, the first word that the baby will learn, and the word most > often >>spoken to the >>>baby and around the baby, will most likely be the word "no," flung around >>by Mommy and >>>Daddy like a veritable primary instruction which the baby eventually >>interprets as >>>apparently being designed to prevent the baby from reaching out into the >>world and >>>exploring. As the baby grows, there will be more and more restrictions >>placed on its >>>actions, restrictions which the baby little understands and which, by the >>nature of their >>>being as babies and children, they little know may be an attempt to >prevent >>them from >>>causing harm to themselves or to other people and property. >>>The imposed horror and terror of the prisoner-like nature of its >existence, >>will soon >>>cause the baby to grow up into a child who will continually seek freedom >of >>expression, >>>and whose primary desire in life may eventually turn out to be liberating >>themselves from >>>the wardens who were once parents and who instead have become what the >>child believes are >>>now its primary enemies in life, and the people who are trying to keep >them >>from exploring >>>the world, learning the lessons of civilization, and discovering the > truth >>about life in >>>the Universe. >>>Soon enough, the horror and terror will become such a regular and normal >>part of the >>>child’s life and the child will become so accustomed to all the > alienation >>and pain, that >>>the child will not even realize that it is truly horror and terror; the >>child will soon >>>learn to embrace and accept most of what has happened, and will begin to >>inflict some of >>>that same horror and terror on other people, perhaps on the child’s >>parents, and most >>>likely, unfortunately, on the child’s own children. Even worse, perhaps, >>will be if the >>>child, instead of learning to lash out at the people and the society > which >>abused the >>>child, withdraws into its own private little world and rejects that >society >>and those >>>people who have inflicted such pain and suffering, and horror and terror, >>upon the child, >>>and becomes what has been described as "autistic" to the world which >>treated that >>>beautiful child with so little regard. >>>God bless that child, and God bless every child that comes into this >world, >>and any other >>>world, in the Universes of Infinity. >>>An Alternative Method of Birthing and Caring for Babies? >>>Having seen the rule, how about an alternative that could serve as an >>exception and which >>>might one day become mainstream? >>>Mommy and Daddy are nude in a small pool. The water in the pool is heated >>to a temperature >>>close to that of the womb. The baby is birthed under water, and by the >>baby’s Daddy. Yes, >>>after having lived in Mommy’s womb for all its life, the first person > with >>whom the baby >>>connects will be Daddy, because Daddy will birth the baby! After birth, >the >>baby is kept >>>under water for a few seconds, and then the baby’s head is brought above >>the water line >>>while the baby is caressed between Mommy and Daddy. The umbilical cord > and >>afterbirth are >>>cleared from Mommy by Daddy while baby remains in their caress, and after >a >>few minutes >>>more, the umbilical cord is cut at the baby by Daddy, while the baby’s >body >>is still under >>>water. >>>Mommy and Daddy continue to caress baby for several minutes, talking >softly >>and reassuring >>>the baby in a way that the baby can feel their warm and comforting
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Response:
The AAP is neutral because, like the article says, while the health benefits may be minimal, there is rarely any harm. Additionally, since circumcision IS a part of a required religious ceremony for some people, they don’t want to be seen interfering with that. Marion—–Tampamom to Louis(6) and Erica(2) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/DailyNews/circumcision000110.html >Excellent! I wonder why the American Association of Pediatrics is >cautiously >neutral about circumcision – perhaps, its because flossing one’s teeth(or >such) is a whole lot easier than cleaning under the foreskin? >RS >>A Baby is Born >>Let us contemplate for a moment the way that so many babies have been >brought into this >>world, in this society. >>The baby, having just been born and having exited one type of world and >entered into a >>whole new world, emerges into the hands of a total stranger, who then, >with >a firmness and >>confidence that bespeaks of the baby’s parents, grabs the baby by its >ankles and turns the >>baby upside down; the baby’s greeting into this world will be a firm slap >on its butt by a >>stranger, as the baby hangs helplessly upside down, as waves of blood >surge >into the >>baby’s brain, and as the baby’s underdeveloped body struggles to maintain >its newly born >>structural integrity against the forces of gravity. Or perhaps instead, >more luckily, the >>baby has a plastic tube harshly shoved down its throat by the total >stranger that pries >>open that very sensitive and small opening and induces the newborn baby to >cry, and is >>perhaps grabbed by the scruff of the neck and by the butt by a stranger >and >is recklessly >>raised naked high up into the air. >>Strangers will then necessarily cut the connection between the baby and >its >mother, will >>then vigorously and violently wipe the baby clean of the blood of birth, >and then the >>baby, having lived comfortably within its mother’s womb for all its life >and now under the >>control of strangers, is hesitantly allowed to spend a few moments with >its >mother, a few >>moments of bonding with one of the baby’s creators, but is then almost >immediately handed >>to another stranger, is wrapped up in materials that would comfort and >warm >the baby no >>more than being held close by its mother, and is then carted off to a room >full of other >>babies who have just gone through the same thing, many of them screaming >and crying, and >>all of them experiencing a certain loneliness that they have not known in >their entire >>short existence. >>A few days later, if the baby is a boy, the baby is most likely taken >again >by strangers, >>placed spread-eagle on his back on a board as his arms and legs are >strapped down so that >>he can’t move. His genitals are scrubbed and covered with antiseptic by >one >of the >>strangers. The foreskin of his penis, still attached to his glans as a >matter of birth, is >>torn from the glans and slit lengthwise so that a sharp cutting instrument >can be >>inserted. Then the baby’s foreskin is cut off by one of the strangers, >usually without >>anesthetic, while the baby screams frantically, defecates, lapses into a >coma; or falls >>into a state of shock from which he cannot even scream his pain and >terror. >>For the next seven to ten days, while one of the most sensitive parts of >the baby’s body >>is healing, the baby is given no pain medication. As the baby screams and >cries from his >>alienation and his pain, his parents fail to hold and comfort him, as they >have been told >>that it is not a good idea to hold their baby too much, having usually >been >given that >>advice by some of the same strangers who were around the baby when he came >into this >>world. >>This is how most baby boys have spent the first two weeks of their life on >this world. The >>horror and terror will continue later, for both male and female babies, as >the baby will >>soon discover that it is under the "protection" and "control" of the very >same people who >>allowed all those strangers to do all those things to the baby; under the >protection and >>control of its "parents" for the next several years of its life. Worse >than >that, the >>baby’s parents may be under the "protection" and "control" of some of >those >strangers who >>did all those things to the baby, and those very same people intend to >continue to share >>advice with the baby’s parents, such advice which will just add to the >horror and terror >>that the baby will be forced to experience in its life. >>Such horror and terror will sometimes take the form of the baby being fed >the mother’s >>milk of strange animals or the chemical concoctions of corporations, as >opposed to being >>nurtured close to mother’s breast and feeding on mother nature’s natural >nutrition. Baby >>may also soon be shunned into prison-like constructs such as cribs and >playpens and >>strollers, products that were manufactured, recommended, and sold by the >associates of the >>same strangers who so rudely helped bring the baby into the world in the >first place, as >>opposed to sleeping and necessarily doing their nightly business in the >same bed as Mommy >>and Daddy, and as opposed to being slung close to the bosom of Mommy and >Daddy and being >>within close proximity of their immediately attention and nurturing as >they >necessarily go >>about their daily business. >>Later on, the first word that the baby will learn, and the word most often >spoken to the >>baby and around the baby, will most likely be the word "no," flung around >by Mommy and >>Daddy like a veritable primary instruction which the baby eventually >interprets as >>apparently being designed to prevent the baby from reaching out into the >world and >>exploring. As the baby grows, there will be more and more restrictions >placed on its >>actions, restrictions which the baby little understands and which, by the >nature of their >>being as babies and children, they little know may be an attempt to >prevent >them from >>causing harm to themselves or to other people and property. >>The imposed horror and terror of the prisoner-like nature of its >existence, >will soon >>cause the baby to grow up into a child who will continually seek freedom >of >expression, >>and whose primary desire in life may eventually turn out to be liberating >themselves from >>the wardens who were once parents and who instead have become what the >child believes are >>now its primary enemies in life, and the people who are trying to keep >them >from exploring >>the world, learning the lessons of civilization, and discovering the truth >about life in >>the Universe. >>Soon enough, the horror and terror will become such a regular and normal >part of the >>child’s life and the child will become so accustomed to all the alienation >and pain, that >>the child will not even realize that it is truly horror and terror; the >child will soon >>learn to embrace and accept most of what has happened, and will begin to >inflict some of >>that same horror and terror on other people, perhaps on the child’s >parents, and most >>likely, unfortunately, on the child’s own children. Even worse, perhaps, >will be if the >>child, instead of learning to lash out at the people and the society which >abused the >>child, withdraws into its own private little world and rejects that >society >and those >>people who have inflicted such pain and suffering, and horror and terror, >upon the child, >>and becomes what has been described as "autistic" to the world which >treated that >>beautiful child with so little regard. >>God bless that child, and God bless every child that comes into this >world, >and any other >>world, in the Universes of Infinity. >>An Alternative Method of Birthing and Caring for Babies? >>Having seen the rule, how about an alternative that could serve as an >exception and which >>might one day become mainstream? >>Mommy and Daddy are nude in a small pool. The water in the pool is heated >to a temperature >>close to that of the womb. The baby is birthed under water, and by the >baby’s Daddy. Yes, >>after having lived in Mommy’s womb for all its life, the first person with >whom the baby >>connects will be Daddy, because Daddy will birth the baby! After birth, >the >baby is kept >>under water for a few seconds, and then the baby’s head is brought above >the water line >>while the baby is caressed between Mommy and Daddy. The umbilical cord and >afterbirth are >>cleared from Mommy by Daddy while baby remains in their caress, and after >a >few minutes >>more, the umbilical cord is cut at the baby by Daddy, while the baby’s >body >is still under >>water. >>Mommy and Daddy continue to caress baby for several minutes, talking >softly >and reassuring >>the baby in a way that the baby can feel their warm and comforting breath >on its face, >>until finally they slowly remove baby from the water as they continue to >caress the baby >>between them. The baby never leaves the arms of its Mommy and Daddy, and >is >taken to a bed >>where the baby will lie in caress with Mommy and Daddy until falling >asleep. At that time, >>the baby can be checked by a doctor and can be removed to home, if not >home >already. >>Of course, while Mommy was pregnant she has been drinking a regimen of >natural herbal >>teas, and using other herbal supplements, perhaps ginseng and perhaps bee >pollen; and she >>will have healthy and nutritious breast milk for her baby. Baby will never >be more than a >>few feet away from any parent at any time, and will often be in the arms >of
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Response:
When I had my surviving triplets (2 girls) I had to have a second c-sec in 20 wks. Steph was not breathing because she had a little bit of (this sounds gross) poop stuck in her throat so they did grab her by her ankles and hang her upside down to see if it wouls come out by its own. So they do still do this. Now they did not slap either of my babies and I havent heard of that in a long time. If they had after losing Baby C and almost losing Baby B, my husband would have jumped up and knocked the dr down
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My thoughts exactly. > I have several friends who had their babies at home, and loved it. > I also have a friend that regrets having her baby midwifed because she had > complications and the baby and herself almost died because of it. she had all > her subsequent births at a hospital. > Having a baby at home wouldn’t be for me, cause I rather enjoyed all the > attention I got when I was in the hospital. And I had no complaints about how > my babies were handled. As soon as the baby was born he/she was placed on my > stomach and cleaned, snipped cord and handed back to me. I then nursed it. > Yes, they took it for bloodwork and weigh etc. but our babies were never left > alone. My DH followed the baby whenever they took him/her. They were sick of > us, by the time we left. And the baby stayed with me in the room, and the nurse > took him to the nursery when I asked. By this time, I already knew every inch > of my babies body and there would be no way that they could have accidentally > switched, like in the movies. > As for the circumcision thing, well that is topic for another newsgroup. I will > add that my son was circumcised, I don’t know what our reasons were for doing > it, it just felt like the right thing to do…and I felt very badly when I saw > his little penis all wrapped in a bandage with blood. It broke my heart. I’m > not sure I would do it again. > But anyways, I ain’t having anymore kids. So I don’t have to worry about it. > — > zipper > Mommy of two; a boy, 4 and a girl, 7 > Visit Sandra’s Home Daycare on the web! > http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare > <snipped for brevity> >>>a total stranger, who then, grabs the baby by its ankles and turns the >>baby upside down; the baby’s greeting into this world will be a firm slap >on its butt by a >>stranger, as the baby hangs helplessly upside down, as waves of blood surge >into the >>baby’s brain, and as the baby’s underdeveloped body struggles to maintain >its newly born >>structural integrity against the forces of gravity. Or is >>perhaps grabbed by the scruff of the neck and by the butt by a stranger and >is recklessly >>raised naked high up into the air. > Where do you live that you think this is still the way >children are brought into the world? When my kids were born, no one grabbed >them by their ankles, slapped their butts or recklessly raised them into the >air. They were immediately place on my chest and stomach for me to hold. >and is then carted off to a room full of other >>babies who have just gone through the same thing, many of them screaming >and crying, and >>all of them experiencing a certain loneliness that they have not known in >their entire >>short existence. > Again, where on earth do you live? The hospital here >doesn’t even have a nursery anymore, except the Neonatal ICU. All babies >room-in with their moms and there is an extra bed in the room for dad to >stay in. >>A few days later, if the baby is a boy, the baby is most likely taken again >by strangers, >>placed spread-eagle on his back on a board as his arms and legs are >strapped down so that >>he can’t move. > > The baby is made immobile so that nothing unintentional >occurs. >Then the baby’s foreskin is cut off by one of the strangers, usually without >>anesthetic, while the baby screams frantically, defecates, lapses into a >coma; or falls >>into a state of shock from which he cannot even scream his pain and terror. > We are Jewish and are therefore required by our >religion to perform circumciscion on the 8th day after a boy’s birth. I >will not get into a debate over the pros and cons of said circumscision. >But, from the experience of my son, he only cried while his legs were >strapped….as soon as the straps were released he stopped crying. He >neither defecated, lapsed into a coma nor entered a state of shock. As soon >as he was in my arms he calmly started sucking on his pacifier. About 5 >minutes later, he fell asleep and slept for about 2 hours before waking to >be fed. >>For the next seven to ten days, while one of the most sensitive parts of >the baby’s body >>is healing, the baby is given no pain medication > This also is categorically not true. We were >told to use Tylenol if the baby seemed to be uncomfortable or in pain. He >was neither. >Again, I have no plans to argue circumcision…my religion requires it, and >has for over 5000 years. I just thought if you want to discuss it you might >want to stick to facts, not fiction. >JMO >Marion—-Tampamom to Louis(6) and Erica(2)
Response:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/DailyNews/circumcision000110.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Excellent! I wonder why the American Association of Pediatrics is cautiously >neutral about circumcision – perhaps, its because flossing one’s teeth(or >such) is a whole lot easier than cleaning under the foreskin? >RS >A Baby is Born >Let us contemplate for a moment the way that so many babies have been >brought into this >world, in this society. >The baby, having just been born and having exited one type of world and >entered into a >whole new world, emerges into the hands of a total stranger, who then, with >a firmness and >confidence that bespeaks of the baby’s parents, grabs the baby by its >ankles and turns the >baby upside down; the baby’s greeting into this world will be a firm slap >on its butt by a >stranger, as the baby hangs helplessly upside down, as waves of blood surge >into the >baby’s brain, and as the baby’s underdeveloped body struggles to maintain >its newly born >structural integrity against the forces of gravity. Or perhaps instead, >more luckily, the >baby has a plastic tube harshly shoved down its throat by the total >stranger that pries >open that very sensitive and small opening and induces the newborn baby to >cry, and is >perhaps grabbed by the scruff of the neck and by the butt by a stranger and >is recklessly >raised naked high up into the air. >Strangers will then necessarily cut the connection between the baby and its >mother, will >then vigorously and violently wipe the baby clean of the blood of birth, >and then the >baby, having lived comfortably within its mother’s womb for all its life >and now under the >control of strangers, is hesitantly allowed to spend a few moments with its >mother, a few >moments of bonding with one of the baby’s creators, but is then almost >immediately handed >to another stranger, is wrapped up in materials that would comfort and warm >the baby no >more than being held close by its mother, and is then carted off to a room >full of other >babies who have just gone through the same thing, many of them screaming >and crying, and >all of them experiencing a certain loneliness that they have not known in >their entire >short existence. >A few days later, if the baby is a boy, the baby is most likely taken again >by strangers, >placed spread-eagle on his back on a board as his arms and legs are >strapped down so that >he can’t move. His genitals are scrubbed and covered with antiseptic by one >of the >strangers. The foreskin of his penis, still attached to his glans as a >matter of birth, is >torn from the glans and slit lengthwise so that a sharp cutting instrument >can be >inserted. Then the baby’s foreskin is cut off by one of the strangers, >usually without >anesthetic, while the baby screams frantically, defecates, lapses into a >coma; or falls >into a state of shock from which he cannot even scream his pain and terror. >For the next seven to ten days, while one of the most sensitive parts of >the baby’s body >is healing, the baby is given no pain medication. As the baby screams and >cries from his >alienation and his pain, his parents fail to hold and comfort him, as they >have been told >that it is not a good idea to hold their baby too much, having usually been >given that >advice by some of the same strangers who were around the baby when he came >into this >world. >This is how most baby boys have spent the first two weeks of their life on >this world. The >horror and terror will continue later, for both male and female babies, as >the baby will >soon discover that it is under the "protection" and "control" of the very >same people who >allowed all those strangers to do all those things to the baby; under the >protection and >control of its "parents" for the next several years of its life. Worse than >that, the >baby’s parents may be under the "protection" and "control" of some of those >strangers who >did all those things to the baby, and those very same people intend to >continue to share >advice with the baby’s parents, such advice which will just add to the >horror and terror >that the baby will be forced to experience in its life. >Such horror and terror will sometimes take the form of the baby being fed >the mother’s >milk of strange animals or the chemical concoctions of corporations, as >opposed to being >nurtured close to mother’s breast and feeding on mother nature’s natural >nutrition. Baby >may also soon be shunned into prison-like constructs such as cribs and >playpens and >strollers, products that were manufactured, recommended, and sold by the >associates of the >same strangers who so rudely helped bring the baby into the world in the >first place, as >opposed to sleeping and necessarily doing their nightly business in the >same bed as Mommy >and Daddy, and as opposed to being slung close to the bosom of Mommy and >Daddy and being >within close proximity of their immediately attention and nurturing as they >necessarily go >about their daily business. >Later on, the first word that the baby will learn, and the word most often >spoken to the >baby and around the baby, will most likely be the word "no," flung around >by Mommy and >Daddy like a veritable primary instruction which the baby eventually >interprets as >apparently being designed to prevent the baby from reaching out into the >world and >exploring. As the baby grows, there will be more and more restrictions >placed on its >actions, restrictions which the baby little understands and which, by the >nature of their >being as babies and children, they little know may be an attempt to prevent >them from >causing harm to themselves or to other people and property. >The imposed horror and terror of the prisoner-like nature of its existence, >will soon >cause the baby to grow up into a child who will continually seek freedom of >expression, >and whose primary desire in life may eventually turn out to be liberating >themselves from >the wardens who were once parents and who instead have become what the >child believes are >now its primary enemies in life, and the people who are trying to keep them >from exploring >the world, learning the lessons of civilization, and discovering the truth >about life in >the Universe. >Soon enough, the horror and terror will become such a regular and normal >part of the >child’s life and the child will become so accustomed to all the alienation >and pain, that >the child will not even realize that it is truly horror and terror; the >child will soon >learn to embrace and accept most of what has happened, and will begin to >inflict some of >that same horror and terror on other people, perhaps on the child’s >parents, and most >likely, unfortunately, on the child’s own children. Even worse, perhaps, >will be if the >child, instead of learning to lash out at the people and the society which >abused the >child, withdraws into its own private little world and rejects that society >and those >people who have inflicted such pain and suffering, and horror and terror, >upon the child, >and becomes what has been described as "autistic" to the world which >treated that >beautiful child with so little regard. >God bless that child, and God bless every child that comes into this world, >and any other >world, in the Universes of Infinity. >An Alternative Method of Birthing and Caring for Babies? >Having seen the rule, how about an alternative that could serve as an >exception and which >might one day become mainstream? >Mommy and Daddy are nude in a small pool. The water in the pool is heated >to a temperature >close to that of the womb. The baby is birthed under water, and by the >baby’s Daddy. Yes, >after having lived in Mommy’s womb for all its life, the first person with >whom the baby >connects will be Daddy, because Daddy will birth the baby! After birth, the >baby is kept >under water for a few seconds, and then the baby’s head is brought above >the water line >while the baby is caressed between Mommy and Daddy. The umbilical cord and >afterbirth are >cleared from Mommy by Daddy while baby remains in their caress, and after a >few minutes >more, the umbilical cord is cut at the baby by Daddy, while the baby’s body >is still under >water. >Mommy and Daddy continue to caress baby for several minutes, talking softly >and reassuring >the baby in a way that the baby can feel their warm and comforting breath >on its face, >until finally they slowly remove baby from the water as they continue to >caress the baby >between them. The baby never leaves the arms of its Mommy and Daddy, and is >taken to a bed >where the baby will lie in caress with Mommy and Daddy until falling >asleep. At that time, >the baby can be checked by a doctor and can be removed to home, if not home >already. >Of course, while Mommy was pregnant she has been drinking a regimen of >natural herbal >teas, and using other herbal supplements, perhaps ginseng and perhaps bee >pollen; and she >will have healthy and nutritious breast milk for her baby. Baby will never >be more than a >few feet away from any parent at any time, and will often be in the arms of >Mommy or >Daddy. In fact, the favored place of the baby will be in the arms of Mommy >or Daddy, and >the baby will sleep in the same bed as Mommy and Daddy for as long as the >baby wants, >until the baby says it wants a bed of its own. And the baby will often be >carried by Mommy >and Daddy close to their bosoms, slung near to their hearts and within >close proximity of >their immediate attention and nurturing. And when the baby is alone and >cries, the baby >will be attended to immediately by Mommy or Daddy, and will never long for >the caress of >either parent. >As the baby matures, Mommy and Daddy will never
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Response:
> My thoughts exactly. > I have several friends who had their babies at home, and loved it. > I also have a friend that regrets having her baby midwifed because she had > complications and the baby and herself almost died because of it. she had all > her subsequent births at a hospital.
At one point, when they were talking of closing down the hospital where my younger brother and sister, all of my nephews, my niece and my children were born, my younger brother, then childless, commented that you don’t need a hospital to have babies, since it is not an illness. At the time, my nephew, my son and my niece, the only children we had (I was then expecting my youngest and my brother had not even met his children’s mother), all had SEVERE complications at birth, complications that could/would have led to death of either mom or baby, or both: my nephew suffered from severe hypoglycemia; my son’s heartbeat went drastically down with every push and my niece aspired muconium. Since then the same brother’s youngest also suffered severe complications at birth. When I was expecting my daughter, I seriously considered the possibility of a home birth, but decided it was too risky considering the problems I’d had when my son was born. I didn’t regret my choice. > Having a baby at home wouldn’t be for me, cause I rather enjoyed all the > attention I got when I was in the hospital. And I had no complaints about how > my babies were handled. As soon as the baby was born he/she was placed on my > stomach and cleaned, snipped cord and handed back to me. I then nursed it. > Yes, they took it for bloodwork and weigh etc. but our babies were never left > alone. My DH followed the baby whenever they took him/her. They were sick of > us, by the time we left. And the baby stayed with me in the room, and the nurse > took him to the nursery when I asked.
This is pretty much consistent with the experience we had with both deliveries. The nurses and doctors and medical staff were wonderful and no procedure was performed unless we had agreed to it prior to delivery. Any emergency, as when my son was born not breathing, was handled in the presence of at least my dh. — Danielle, Maman to Marc-Andre – May 22, 1991 and Genevieve – Dec. 18, 1995 and recently weaned Writing from Canada Visit my new web-page, view new pics of the kids, and, please, sign my guest-book!! http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/home.html My ICQ # is 6463692 Canadian Special Education Chat Room – http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/canspec.html &canspec ICQ # 33710657
Response:
He posts to alt.childcare too. — zipper Mommy of two; a boy, 4 and a girl, 7 Visit Sandra’s Home Daycare on the web! http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Actually, this guy posts this every few months to either misc.kids or this >board. I don’t know what color the sky is in his world, but I’m guessing he has >a droid or two! >Missie >Mom to Devon Raine- aka "baby squirt"
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Very good point. I like the way find these things. You seem to have a knack for it. BTW, you crack me up. I really enjoy your posts, Josie. — zipper Mommy of two; a boy, 4 and a girl, 7 Visit Sandra’s Home Daycare on the web! http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->What came to mind was that the whole stupid post was dreamed up in a poor >attempt to camoflauge the obvious anti-formula and anti-circumcision >propaganda. JMO. >Josie
Response:
Actually, this guy posts this every few months to either misc.kids or this board. I don’t know what color the sky is in his world, but I’m guessing he has a droid or two! Missie Mom to Devon Raine- aka "baby squirt"
Response:
A very black and white way of looking at things. The birth of a baby is handled differently in each country and changes over time as well. In Holland it is normal to give birth in your own home. In France you must be in the hospital in bed. it is not as black and white as you say. Furthermore, you make it sound like a child that is put in a crib grows up with horrible parents, and has a horrible life without knowing it! Seems a bit far fetched to me. I have never let my children sleep in bed with me. It was and is a personal choice. I think a baby needs a calm and quiet place to sleep just as I do, and I cannot sleep with a baby in bed with me! Not to mention the fact that having my child in bed with me would completely ruin my sexlife! It’s hard enough as it is to find time and energy for that with kids around. Every parent makes his own choices. Just because you don’t give birth in a pool, and have your baby attached to your body 24/7 doesn’t mean you are a bad parent. Becca
Response:
>I’m sorry you think this is the way all babies come into the world. It’s >not. Get a life.
I agree. The word "idiot" came to my mind after the "slaping the butt" (not done that way anymore), "grabbed by the scruff of the neck and by the butt by a stranger" and "vigorously and violently wipe the baby clean".
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>>I’m sorry you think this is the way all babies come into the world. It’s >not. Get a life. >I agree. The word "idiot" came to my mind after the "slaping the butt" (not >done that way anymore), "grabbed by the scruff of the neck and by the butt by >a >stranger" and "vigorously and violently wipe the baby clean".
What came to mind was that the whole stupid post was dreamed up in a poor attempt to camoflauge the obvious anti-formula and anti-circumcision propaganda. JMO. Josie
Response:
My thoughts exactly. I have several friends who had their babies at home, and loved it. I also have a friend that regrets having her baby midwifed because she had complications and the baby and herself almost died because of it. she had all her subsequent births at a hospital. Having a baby at home wouldn’t be for me, cause I rather enjoyed all the attention I got when I was in the hospital. And I had no complaints about how my babies were handled. As soon as the baby was born he/she was placed on my stomach and cleaned, snipped cord and handed back to me. I then nursed it. Yes, they took it for bloodwork and weigh etc. but our babies were never left alone. My DH followed the baby whenever they took him/her. They were sick of us, by the time we left. And the baby stayed with me in the room, and the nurse took him to the nursery when I asked. By this time, I already knew every inch of my babies body and there would be no way that they could have accidentally switched, like in the movies. As for the circumcision thing, well that is topic for another newsgroup. I will add that my son was circumcised, I don’t know what our reasons were for doing it, it just felt like the right thing to do…and I felt very badly when I saw his little penis all wrapped in a bandage with blood. It broke my heart. I’m not sure I would do it again. But anyways, I ain’t having anymore kids. So I don’t have to worry about it. — zipper Mommy of two; a boy, 4 and a girl, 7 Visit Sandra’s Home Daycare on the web! http://www.angelfire.com/country/daycare – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > <snipped for brevity> >>a total stranger, who then, grabs the baby by its ankles and turns the >baby upside down; the baby’s greeting into this world will be a firm slap >on its butt by a >stranger, as the baby hangs helplessly upside down, as waves of blood surge >into the >baby’s brain, and as the baby’s underdeveloped body struggles to maintain >its newly born >structural integrity against the forces of gravity. Or is >perhaps grabbed by the scruff of the neck and by the butt by a stranger and >is recklessly >raised naked high up into the air. > Where do you live that you think this is still the way >children are brought into the world? When my kids were born, no one grabbed >them by their ankles, slapped their butts or recklessly raised them into the >air. They were immediately place on my chest and stomach for me to hold. >and is then carted off to a room full of other >babies who have just gone through the same thing, many of them screaming >and crying, and >all of them experiencing a certain loneliness that they have not known in >their entire >short existence. > Again, where on earth do you live? The hospital here >doesn’t even have a nursery anymore, except the Neonatal ICU. All babies >room-in with their moms and there is an extra bed in the room for dad to >stay in. >A few days later, if the baby is a boy, the baby is most likely taken again >by strangers, >placed spread-eagle on his back on a board as his arms and legs are >strapped down so that >he can’t move. > > The baby is made immobile so that nothing unintentional >occurs. >Then the baby’s foreskin is cut off by one of the strangers, usually without >anesthetic, while the baby screams frantically, defecates, lapses into a >coma; or falls >into a state of shock from which he cannot even scream his pain and terror. > We are Jewish and are therefore required by our >religion to perform circumciscion on the 8th day after a boy’s birth. I >will not get into a debate over the pros and cons of said circumscision. >But, from the experience of my son, he only cried while his legs were >strapped….as soon as the straps were released he stopped crying. He >neither defecated, lapsed into a coma nor entered a state of shock. As soon >as he was in my arms he calmly started sucking on his pacifier. About 5 >minutes later, he fell asleep and slept for about 2 hours before waking to >be fed. >For the next seven to ten days, while one of the most sensitive parts of >the baby’s body >is healing, the baby is given no pain medication > This also is categorically not true. We were >told to use Tylenol if the baby seemed to be uncomfortable or in pain. He >was neither. >Again, I have no plans to argue circumcision…my religion requires it, and >has for over 5000 years. I just thought if you want to discuss it you might >want to stick to facts, not fiction. >JMO >Marion—-Tampamom to Louis(6) and Erica(2)
Response:
Angel here > A Baby is Born > Let us contemplate for a moment the way that so many babies have been brought into > this world, in this society.
Hmmm. Can I throw in with my experiences of 4 days ago? > The baby, having just been born and having exited one type of world and entered into a > whole new world, emerges into the hands of a total stranger,
No. My last two children were not "caught". They emerged onto soft, warm cotton pads, sheltered by my legs. >who then, with a firmness and > confidence that bespeaks of the baby’s parents, grabs the baby by its ankles and turns >the > baby upside down;
Not any of my 4 children were turned upside down. They were all cradled gently, and placed on my bare stomach before being covered with a warm blanket. After the placenta was delivered, the cord was cut and they were washed a bit and swaddled and I nursed them until they fell asleep. Then they went to the nursery, for weighing, meausring, blood typing (very important, as I am a negative blood type mother) and observation. I usually slept for a few hours, and then we roomed in, nursing and cuddling. >the baby’s greeting into this world will be a firm slap on its butt >by a > stranger,
Again, never in my experience. My children all cried out on their own, usually before their shoulders had cleared my body. They protested the compression, the lights, the cold air, but they calmed quickly, once they were swaddled and cuddled close. This entire post strikes me as outdated nonsense. Perhaps it was this way 20-30 years ago, but my experiences in 2 hospitals over the last 10 years have been entirely different. > As the baby screams and cries from his > alienation and his pain, his parents fail to hold and comfort him, as they have been >told > that it is not a good idea to hold their baby too much, having usually been given that > advice by some of the same strangers who were around the baby when he came into this > world.
Bull. Everyone says hold and cuddle and comfort baby as much as you want. Feed on demand. They are only tiny for such a short time, enjoy it, was the standard advice. > Such horror and terror will sometimes take the form of the baby being fed the mother’s > milk of strange animals or the chemical concoctions of corporations, as opposed to >being > nurtured close to mother’s breast and feeding on mother nature’s natural nutrition.
Oh right! Breastfeeding is not only encouraged, it is almost a religion these days. Besides, I’m at home, what else do I have to do? I have better uses for my time than sterilizing bottles and mixing formula. >Baby > may also soon be shunned into prison-like constructs such as cribs and playpens and > strollers,
Cribs don’t appear in our household until 6 mo. Then they are for naps. I love my baby sling, but my 2 rides in a stroller. (he tires too easily and is too heavy to carry.) > An Alternative Method of Birthing and Caring for Babies? > Having seen the rule, how about an alternative that could serve as an exception and which > might one day become mainstream? > Mommy and Daddy are nude in a small pool.
Drowning hazard. >The baby is birthed under water, and by the baby’s Daddy.
My husband? You are joking. And every other woman reading this is having hysterics as well, knowing how her man reacts to the sight of blood. > Of course, while Mommy was pregnant she has been drinking a regimen of natural herbal > teas, and using other herbal supplements, perhaps ginseng and perhaps bee pollen;
Placebos at best, dangerous at worst. I know there are beneficial herbals, but I am skeptical about most, and know quite well to stay away from things like raspberry tea. > Baby will never be more than a > few feet away from any parent at any time, and will often be in the arms of Mommy or > Daddy.
Nice idea. I like it and practice as much as possible, but I will leave the baby in her basket while I go to the bathroom. That’s what older sibs are for: to coo and comfort for the brief and necessary absences. > Now tell me, don’t you think the world would be a little better place if the children >were > born into it in this manner?
Barring the fact all 4 of mine would have drowned if born in water, I suspect you need to get with the times. I am pleased with most of my birth experiences, and my children seem no worse for the wear for having been born onto warm cotton or warm hands. Angel
Response:
I’m sorry you think this is the way all babies come into the world. It’s not. Get a life. C. > A Baby is Born
(most of this is bs anyway and deserves to be snipped.)
Response:
<snipped for brevity> >a total stranger, who then, grabs the baby by its ankles and turns the >baby upside down; the baby’s greeting into this world will be a firm slap on its butt by a >stranger, as the baby hangs helplessly upside down, as waves of blood surge into the >baby’s brain, and as the baby’s underdeveloped body struggles to maintain its newly born >structural integrity against the forces of gravity. Or is >perhaps grabbed by the scruff of the neck and by the butt by a stranger and is recklessly >raised naked high up into the air.
Where do you live that you think this is still the way children are brought into the world? When my kids were born, no one grabbed them by their ankles, slapped their butts or recklessly raised them into the air. They were immediately place on my chest and stomach for me to hold. and is then carted off to a room full of other >babies who have just gone through the same thing, many of them screaming and crying, and >all of them experiencing a certain loneliness that they have not known in their entire >short existence.
Again, where on earth do you live? The hospital here doesn’t even have a nursery anymore, except the Neonatal ICU. All babies room-in with their moms and there is an extra bed in the room for dad to stay in. >A few days later, if the baby is a boy, the baby is most likely taken again by strangers, >placed spread-eagle on his back on a board as his arms and legs are
strapped down so that >he can’t move. >
The baby is made immobile so that nothing unintentional occurs. Then the baby’s foreskin is cut off by one of the strangers, usually without >anesthetic, while the baby screams frantically, defecates, lapses into a coma; or falls >into a state of shock from which he cannot even scream his pain and terror.
We are Jewish and are therefore required by our religion to perform circumciscion on the 8th day after a boy’s birth. I will not get into a debate over the pros and cons of said circumscision. But, from the experience of my son, he only cried while his legs were strapped….as soon as the straps were released he stopped crying. He neither defecated, lapsed into a coma nor entered a state of shock. As soon as he was in my arms he calmly started sucking on his pacifier. About 5 minutes later, he fell asleep and slept for about 2 hours before waking to be fed. >For the next seven to ten days, while one of the most sensitive parts of the baby’s body >is healing, the baby is given no pain medication
This also is categorically not true. We were told to use Tylenol if the baby seemed to be uncomfortable or in pain. He was neither. Again, I have no plans to argue circumcision…my religion requires it, and has for over 5000 years. I just thought if you want to discuss it you might want to stick to facts, not fiction. JMO Marion—-Tampamom to Louis(6) and Erica(2)
Response:
Excellent! I wonder why the American Association of Pediatrics is cautiously neutral about circumcision – perhaps, its because flossing one’s teeth(or such) is a whole lot easier than cleaning under the foreskin? RS >A Baby is Born >Let us contemplate for a moment the way that so many babies have been brought into this >world, in this society. >The baby, having just been born and having exited one type of world and entered into a >whole new world, emerges into the hands of a total stranger, who then, with a firmness and >confidence that bespeaks of the baby’s parents, grabs the baby by its
ankles and turns the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->baby upside down; the baby’s greeting into this world will be a firm slap on its butt by a >stranger, as the baby hangs helplessly upside down, as waves of blood surge into the >baby’s brain, and as the baby’s underdeveloped body struggles to maintain its newly born >structural integrity against the forces of gravity. Or perhaps instead, more luckily, the >baby has a plastic tube harshly shoved down its throat by the total stranger that pries >open that very sensitive and small opening and induces the newborn baby to cry, and is >perhaps grabbed by the scruff of the neck and by the butt by a stranger and is recklessly >raised naked high up into the air. >Strangers will then necessarily cut the connection between the baby and its mother, will >then vigorously and violently wipe the baby clean of the blood of birth, and then the >baby, having lived comfortably within its mother’s womb for all its life and now under the >control of strangers, is hesitantly allowed to spend a few moments with its mother, a few >moments of bonding with one of the baby’s creators, but is then almost immediately handed >to another stranger, is wrapped up in materials that would comfort and warm the baby no >more than being held close by its mother, and is then carted off to a room full of other >babies who have just gone through the same thing, many of them screaming and crying, and >all of them experiencing a certain loneliness that they have not known in their entire >short existence. >A few days later, if the baby is a boy, the baby is most likely taken again by strangers, >placed spread-eagle on his back on a board as his arms and legs are
strapped down so that – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->he can’t move. His genitals are scrubbed and covered with antiseptic by one of the >strangers. The foreskin of his penis, still attached to his glans as a matter of birth, is >torn from the glans and slit lengthwise so that a sharp cutting instrument can be >inserted. Then the baby’s foreskin is cut off by one of the strangers, usually without >anesthetic, while the baby screams frantically, defecates, lapses into a coma; or falls >into a state of shock from which he cannot even scream his pain and terror. >For the next seven to ten days, while one of the most sensitive parts of the baby’s body >is healing, the baby is given no pain medication. As the baby screams and cries from his >alienation and his pain, his parents fail to hold and comfort him, as they have been told >that it is not a good idea to hold their baby too much, having usually been given that >advice by some of the same strangers who were around the baby when he came into this >world. >This is how most baby boys have spent the first two weeks of their life on this world. The >horror and terror will continue later, for both male and female babies, as the baby will >soon discover that it is under the "protection" and "control" of the very same people who >allowed all those strangers to do all those things to the baby; under the protection and >control of its "parents" for the next several years of its life. Worse than that, the >baby’s parents may be under the "protection" and "control" of some of those strangers who >did all those things to the baby, and those very same people intend to continue to share >advice with the baby’s parents, such advice which will just add to the horror and terror >that the baby will be forced to experience in its life. >Such horror and terror will sometimes take the form of the baby being fed the mother’s >milk of strange animals or the chemical concoctions of corporations, as opposed to being >nurtured close to mother’s breast and feeding on mother nature’s natural nutrition. Baby >may also soon be shunned into prison-like constructs such as cribs and playpens and >strollers, products that were manufactured, recommended, and sold by the associates of the >same strangers who so rudely helped bring the baby into the world in the first place, as >opposed to sleeping and necessarily doing their nightly business in the same bed as Mommy >and Daddy, and as opposed to being slung close to the bosom of Mommy and Daddy and being >within close proximity of their immediately attention and nurturing as they necessarily go >about their daily business. >Later on, the first word that the baby will learn, and the word most often spoken to the >baby and around the baby, will most likely be the word "no," flung around by Mommy and >Daddy like a veritable primary instruction which the baby eventually interprets as >apparently being designed to prevent the baby from reaching out into the world and >exploring. As the baby grows, there will be more and more restrictions placed on its >actions, restrictions which the baby little understands and which, by the nature of their >being as babies and children, they little know may be an attempt to prevent them from >causing harm to themselves or to other people and property. >The imposed horror and terror of the prisoner-like nature of its existence, will soon >cause the baby to grow up into a child who will continually seek freedom of expression, >and whose primary desire in life may eventually turn out to be liberating themselves from >the wardens who were once parents and who instead have become what the child believes are >now its primary enemies in life, and the people who are trying to keep them from exploring >the world, learning the lessons of civilization, and discovering the truth about life in >the Universe. >Soon enough, the horror and terror will become such a regular and normal part of the >child’s life and the child will become so accustomed to all the alienation and pain, that >the child will not even realize that it is truly horror and terror; the child will soon >learn to embrace and accept most of what has happened, and will begin to inflict some of >that same horror and terror on other people, perhaps on the child’s parents, and most >likely, unfortunately, on the child’s own children. Even worse, perhaps, will be if the >child, instead of learning to lash out at the people and the society which abused the >child, withdraws into its own private little world and rejects that society and those >people who have inflicted such pain and suffering, and horror and terror, upon the child, >and becomes what has been described as "autistic" to the world which treated that >beautiful child with so little regard. >God bless that child, and God bless every child that comes into this world, and any other >world, in the Universes of Infinity. >An Alternative Method of Birthing and Caring for Babies? >Having seen the rule, how about an alternative that could serve as an exception and which >might one day become mainstream? >Mommy and Daddy are nude in a small pool. The water in the pool is heated to a temperature >close to that of the womb. The baby is birthed under water, and by the baby’s Daddy. Yes, >after having lived in Mommy’s womb for all its life, the first person with whom the baby >connects will be Daddy, because Daddy will birth the baby! After birth, the baby is kept >under water for a few seconds, and then the baby’s head is brought above the water line >while the baby is caressed between Mommy and Daddy. The umbilical cord and afterbirth are >cleared from Mommy by Daddy while baby remains in their caress, and after a few minutes >more, the umbilical cord is cut at the baby by Daddy, while the baby’s body is still under >water. >Mommy and Daddy continue to caress baby for several minutes, talking softly and reassuring >the baby in a way that the baby can feel their warm and comforting breath on its face, >until finally they slowly remove baby from the water as they continue to caress the baby >between them. The baby never leaves the arms of its Mommy and Daddy, and is taken to a bed >where the baby will lie in caress with Mommy and Daddy until falling
asleep. At that time, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->the baby can be checked by a doctor and can be removed to home, if not home already. >Of course, while Mommy was pregnant she has been drinking a regimen of natural herbal >teas, and using other herbal supplements, perhaps ginseng and perhaps bee pollen; and she >will have healthy and nutritious breast milk for her baby. Baby will never be more than a >few feet away from any parent at any time, and will often be in the arms of Mommy or >Daddy. In fact, the favored place of the baby will be in the arms of Mommy or Daddy, and >the baby will sleep in the same bed as Mommy and Daddy for as long as the baby wants, >until the baby says it wants a bed of its own. And the baby will often be carried by Mommy >and Daddy close to their bosoms, slung near to their hearts and within close proximity of >their immediate attention and nurturing. And when the baby is alone and cries, the baby >will be attended to immediately by Mommy or Daddy, and will never long for the caress of >either parent. >As the baby matures, Mommy and Daddy will never deny any love or attention to the baby, >will never physically harm the baby or deny any of its needs, and the baby will receive 24 >hour attention and all the love of the baby’s parents. >Now tell me, don’t you think the world would be a little better place if the children were >born into it in this manner? >~ >Waterbirth Website –
… read more »
Response:
This was a very good and thoughtful post. Marie http://go.to/mommydowis >A Baby is Born >Let us contemplate for a moment the way that so many
babies have been brought into this >world, in this society. >The baby, having just been born and having exited one
type of world and entered into a >whole new world, emerges into the hands of a total
stranger, who then, with a firmness and >confidence that bespeaks of the baby’s parents, grabs
the baby by its ankles and turns the >baby upside down; the baby’s greeting into this world
will be a firm slap on its butt by a >stranger, as the baby hangs helplessly upside down, as
waves of blood surge into the >baby’s brain, and as the baby’s underdeveloped body
struggles to maintain its newly born >structural integrity against the forces of gravity. Or
perhaps instead, more luckily, the >baby has a plastic tube harshly shoved down its throat
by the total stranger that pries >open that very sensitive and small opening and induces
the newborn baby to cry, and is >perhaps grabbed by the scruff of the neck and by the
butt by a stranger and is recklessly >raised naked high up into the air. >Strangers will then necessarily cut the connection
between the baby and its mother, will >then vigorously and violently wipe the baby clean of
the blood of birth, and then the >baby, having lived comfortably within its mother’s
womb for all its life and now under the >control of strangers, is hesitantly allowed to spend a
few moments with its mother, a few >moments of bonding with one of the baby’s creators,
but is then almost immediately handed >to another stranger, is wrapped up in materials that
would comfort and warm the baby no >more than being held close by its mother, and is then
carted off to a room full of other >babies who have just gone through the same thing, many
of them screaming and crying, and >all of them experiencing a certain loneliness that
they have not known in their entire >short existence. >A few days later, if the baby is a boy, the baby is
most likely taken again by strangers, >placed spread-eagle on his back on a board as his arms
and legs are strapped down so that >he can’t move. His genitals are scrubbed and covered
with antiseptic by one of the >strangers. The foreskin of his penis, still attached
to his glans as a matter of birth, is >torn from the glans and slit lengthwise so that a
sharp cutting instrument can be >inserted. Then the baby’s foreskin is cut off by one
of the strangers, usually without >anesthetic, while the baby screams frantically,
defecates, lapses into a coma; or falls >into a state of shock from which he cannot even scream
his pain and terror. >For the next seven to ten days, while one of the most
sensitive parts of the baby’s body >is healing, the baby is given no pain medication. As
the baby screams and cries from his >alienation and his pain, his parents fail to hold and
comfort him, as they have been told >that it is not a good idea to hold their baby too
much, having usually been given that >advice by some of the same strangers who were around
the baby when he came into this >world. >This is how most baby boys have spent the first two
weeks of their life on this world. The >horror and terror will continue later, for both male
and female babies, as the baby will >soon discover that it is under the "protection" and
"control" of the very same people who >allowed all those strangers to do all those things to
the baby; under the protection and >control of its "parents" for the next several years of
its life. Worse than that, the >baby’s parents may be under the "protection" and
"control" of some of those strangers who >did all those things to the baby, and those very same
people intend to continue to share >advice with the baby’s parents, such advice which will
just add to the horror and terror >that the baby will be forced to experience in its life. >Such horror and terror will sometimes take the form of
the baby being fed the mother’s >milk of strange animals or the chemical concoctions of
corporations, as opposed to being >nurtured close to mother’s breast and feeding on
mother nature’s natural nutrition. Baby >may also soon be shunned into prison-like constructs
such as cribs and playpens and >strollers, products that were manufactured,
recommended, and sold by the associates of the >same strangers who so rudely helped bring the baby
into the world in the first place, as >opposed to sleeping and necessarily doing their
nightly business in the same bed as Mommy >and Daddy, and as opposed to being slung close to the
bosom of Mommy and Daddy and being >within close proximity of their immediately attention
and nurturing as they necessarily go >about their daily business. >Later on, the first word that the baby will learn, and
the word most often spoken to the >baby and around the baby, will most likely be the word
"no," flung around by Mommy and >Daddy like a veritable primary instruction which the
baby eventually interprets as >apparently being designed to prevent the baby from
reaching out into the world and >exploring. As the baby grows, there will be more and
more restrictions placed on its >actions, restrictions which the baby little
understands and which, by the nature of their >being as babies and children, they little know may be
an attempt to prevent them from >causing harm to themselves or to other people and property. >The imposed horror and terror of the prisoner-like
nature of its existence, will soon >cause the baby to grow up into a child who will
continually seek freedom of expression, >and whose primary desire in life may eventually turn
out to be liberating themselves from >the wardens who were once parents and who instead have
become what the child believes are >now its primary enemies in life, and the people who
are trying to keep them from exploring >the world, learning the lessons of civilization, and
discovering the truth about life in >the Universe. >Soon enough, the horror and terror will become such a
regular and normal part of the >child’s life and the child will become so accustomed
to all the alienation and pain, that >the child will not even realize that it is truly
horror and terror; the child will soon >learn to embrace and accept most of what has happened,
and will begin to inflict some of >that same horror and terror on other people, perhaps
on the child’s parents, and most >likely, unfortunately, on the child’s own children.
Even worse, perhaps, will be if the >child, instead of learning to lash out at the people
and the society which abused the >child, withdraws into its own private little world and
rejects that society and those >people who have inflicted such pain and suffering, and
horror and terror, upon the child, >and becomes what has been described as "autistic" to
the world which treated that >beautiful child with so little regard. >God bless that child, and God bless every child that
comes into this world, and any other >world, in the Universes of Infinity. >An Alternative Method of Birthing and Caring for Babies? >Having seen the rule, how about an alternative that
could serve as an exception and which >might one day become mainstream? >Mommy and Daddy are nude in a small pool. The water in
the pool is heated to a temperature >close to that of the womb. The baby is birthed under
water, and by the baby’s Daddy. Yes, >after having lived in Mommy’s womb for all its life,
the first person with whom the baby >connects will be Daddy, because Daddy will birth the
baby! After birth, the baby is kept >under water for a few seconds, and then the baby’s
head is brought above the water line >while the baby is caressed between Mommy and Daddy.
The umbilical cord and afterbirth are >cleared from Mommy by Daddy while baby remains in
their caress, and after a few minutes >more, the umbilical cord is cut at the baby by Daddy,
while the baby’s body is still under >water. >Mommy and Daddy continue to caress baby for several
minutes, talking softly and reassuring >the baby in a way that the baby can feel their warm
and comforting breath on its face, >until finally they slowly remove baby from the water
as they continue to caress the baby >between them. The baby never leaves the arms of its
Mommy and Daddy, and is taken to a bed >where the baby will lie in caress with Mommy and Daddy
until falling asleep. At that time, >the baby can be checked by a doctor and can be removed
to home, if not home already. >Of course, while Mommy was pregnant she has been
drinking a regimen of natural herbal >teas, and using other herbal supplements, perhaps
ginseng and perhaps bee pollen; and she >will have healthy and nutritious breast milk for her
baby. Baby will never be more than a >few feet away from any parent at any time, and will
often be in the arms of Mommy or >Daddy. In fact, the favored place of the baby will be
in the arms of Mommy or Daddy, and >the baby will sleep in the same bed as Mommy and Daddy
for as long as the baby wants, >until the baby says it wants a bed of its own. And the
baby will often be carried by Mommy >and Daddy close to their bosoms, slung near to their
hearts and within close proximity of >their immediate attention and nurturing. And when the
baby is alone and cries, the baby >will be attended to immediately by Mommy or Daddy, and
will never long for the caress of >either parent. >As the baby matures, Mommy and Daddy will never deny
any love or attention to the baby, >will never physically harm the baby or deny any of its
needs, and the baby will receive 24 >hour attention and all the love of the baby’s parents. >Now tell me, don’t you think the world would be a
little better place if the children were – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->born into it in this manner? >~ >Waterbirth Website – >http://www.wenet.net/~karil/menu.html >Water Birth: Giving birth underwater; a very gentle choice – >http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/2840/ >~ >Attachment Parenting –
… read more »
Response:
A Baby is Born Let us contemplate for a moment the way that so many babies have been brought into this world, in this society. The baby, having just been born and having exited one type of world and entered into a whole new world, emerges into the hands of a total stranger, who then, with a firmness and confidence that bespeaks of the baby’s parents, grabs the baby by its ankles and turns the baby upside down; the baby’s greeting into this world will be a firm slap on its butt by a stranger, as the baby hangs helplessly upside down, as waves of blood surge into the baby’s brain, and as the baby’s underdeveloped body struggles to maintain its newly born structural integrity against the forces of gravity. Or perhaps instead, more luckily, the baby has a plastic tube harshly shoved down its throat by the total stranger that pries open that very sensitive and small opening and induces the newborn baby to cry, and is perhaps grabbed by the scruff of the neck and by the butt by a stranger and is recklessly raised naked high up into the air. Strangers will then necessarily cut the connection between the baby and its mother, will then vigorously and violently wipe the baby clean of the blood of birth, and then the baby, having lived comfortably within its mother’s womb for all its life and now under the control of strangers, is hesitantly allowed to spend a few moments with its mother, a few moments of bonding with one of the baby’s creators, but is then almost immediately handed to another stranger, is wrapped up in materials that would comfort and warm the baby no more than being held close by its mother, and is then carted off to a room full of other babies who have just gone through the same thing, many of them screaming and crying, and all of them experiencing a certain loneliness that they have not known in their entire short existence. A few days later, if the baby is a boy, the baby is most likely taken again by strangers, placed spread-eagle on his back on a board as his arms and legs are strapped down so that he can’t move. His genitals are scrubbed and covered with antiseptic by one of the strangers. The foreskin of his penis, still attached to his glans as a matter of birth, is torn from the glans and slit lengthwise so that a sharp cutting instrument can be inserted. Then the baby’s foreskin is cut off by one of the strangers, usually without anesthetic, while the baby screams frantically, defecates, lapses into a coma; or falls into a state of shock from which he cannot even scream his pain and terror. For the next seven to ten days, while one of the most sensitive parts of the baby’s body is healing, the baby is given no pain medication. As the baby screams and cries from his alienation and his pain, his parents fail to hold and comfort him, as they have been told that it is not a good idea to hold their baby too much, having usually been given that advice by some of the same strangers who were around the baby when he came into this world. This is how most baby boys have spent the first two weeks of their life on this world. The horror and terror will continue later, for both male and female babies, as the baby will soon discover that it is under the "protection" and "control" of the very same people who allowed all those strangers to do all those things to the baby; under the protection and control of its "parents" for the next several years of its life. Worse than that, the baby’s parents may be under the "protection" and "control" of some of those strangers who did all those things to the baby, and those very same people intend to continue to share advice with the baby’s parents, such advice which will just add to the horror and terror that the baby will be forced to experience in its life. Such horror and terror will sometimes take the form of the baby being fed the mother’s milk of strange animals or the chemical concoctions of corporations, as opposed to being nurtured close to mother’s breast and feeding on mother nature’s natural nutrition. Baby may also soon be shunned into prison-like constructs such as cribs and playpens and strollers, products that were manufactured, recommended, and sold by the associates of the same strangers who so rudely helped bring the baby into the world in the first place, as opposed to sleeping and necessarily doing their nightly business in the same bed as Mommy and Daddy, and as opposed to being slung close to the bosom of Mommy and Daddy and being within close proximity of their immediately attention and nurturing as they necessarily go about their daily business. Later on, the first word that the baby will learn, and the word most often spoken to the baby and around the baby, will most likely be the word "no," flung around by Mommy and Daddy like a veritable primary instruction which the baby eventually interprets as apparently being designed to prevent the baby from reaching out into the world and exploring. As the baby grows, there will be more and more restrictions placed on its actions, restrictions which the baby little understands and which, by the nature of their being as babies and children, they little know may be an attempt to prevent them from causing harm to themselves or to other people and property. The imposed horror and terror of the prisoner-like nature of its existence, will soon cause the baby to grow up into a child who will continually seek freedom of expression, and whose primary desire in life may eventually turn out to be liberating themselves from the wardens who were once parents and who instead have become what the child believes are now its primary enemies in life, and the people who are trying to keep them from exploring the world, learning the lessons of civilization, and discovering the truth about life in the Universe. Soon enough, the horror and terror will become such a regular and normal part of the child’s life and the child will become so accustomed to all the alienation and pain, that the child will not even realize that it is truly horror and terror; the child will soon learn to embrace and accept most of what has happened, and will begin to inflict some of that same horror and terror on other people, perhaps on the child’s parents, and most likely, unfortunately, on the child’s own children. Even worse, perhaps, will be if the child, instead of learning to lash out at the people and the society which abused the child, withdraws into its own private little world and rejects that society and those people who have inflicted such pain and suffering, and horror and terror, upon the child, and becomes what has been described as "autistic" to the world which treated that beautiful child with so little regard. God bless that child, and God bless every child that comes into this world, and any other world, in the Universes of Infinity. An Alternative Method of Birthing and Caring for Babies? Having seen the rule, how about an alternative that could serve as an exception and which might one day become mainstream? Mommy and Daddy are nude in a small pool. The water in the pool is heated to a temperature close to that of the womb. The baby is birthed under water, and by the baby’s Daddy. Yes, after having lived in Mommy’s womb for all its life, the first person with whom the baby connects will be Daddy, because Daddy will birth the baby! After birth, the baby is kept under water for a few seconds, and then the baby’s head is brought above the water line while the baby is caressed between Mommy and Daddy. The umbilical cord and afterbirth are cleared from Mommy by Daddy while baby remains in their caress, and after a few minutes more, the umbilical cord is cut at the baby by Daddy, while the baby’s body is still under water. Mommy and Daddy continue to caress baby for several minutes, talking softly and reassuring the baby in a way that the baby can feel their warm and comforting breath on its face, until finally they slowly remove baby from the water as they continue to caress the baby between them. The baby never leaves the arms of its Mommy and Daddy, and is taken to a bed where the baby will lie in caress with Mommy and Daddy until falling asleep. At that time, the baby can be checked by a doctor and can be removed to home, if not home already. Of course, while Mommy was pregnant she has been drinking a regimen of natural herbal teas, and using other herbal supplements, perhaps ginseng and perhaps bee pollen; and she will have healthy and nutritious breast milk for her baby. Baby will never be more than a few feet away from any parent at any time, and will often be in the arms of Mommy or Daddy. In fact, the favored place of the baby will be in the arms of Mommy or Daddy, and the baby will sleep in the same bed as Mommy and Daddy for as long as the baby wants, until the baby says it wants a bed of its own. And the baby will often be carried by Mommy and Daddy close to their bosoms, slung near to their hearts and within close proximity of their immediate attention and nurturing. And when the baby is alone and cries, the baby will be attended to immediately by Mommy or Daddy, and will never long for the caress of either parent. As the baby matures, Mommy and Daddy will never deny any love or attention to the baby, will never physically harm the baby or deny any of its needs, and the baby will receive 24 hour attention and all the love of the baby’s parents. Now tell me, don’t you think the world would be a little better place if the children were born into it in this manner? ~ Waterbirth Website – http://www.wenet.net/~karil/menu.html Water Birth: Giving birth underwater; a very gentle choice – http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/2840/ ~ Attachment Parenting – http://het.brown.edu/people/kjp/stuff/old/aplinks.htm About Wearing Your Baby – http://www.cuddler.com/about.htm Importance of the In-Arms Phase – http://www.continuum-concept.org/reading/in-arms.html The Baby Wearing Home Page – … read more »
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > ;x-no-archive: yes > ; > ;Sounds like a good way to drown a baby with his/ her first breath. I > ;believe a couple in the former Soviet Union lost a baby girl to drowning > ;using this birth method in the mid ’80s. > ; > ;My first child was born in a hospital and started crying before he was all > ;the way out of the birth canal. I believe one shoulder had been born when > ;he took his first breath. We have witnesses to this. > ; > ;up state ny mom > Correct me if I’m wrong, but until the umbilical chord is cut, a newborn draws > oxygen from that and not by breathing. Until the lungs are cleared (which is > what the bulb syringe is for) the child does _not_ breath. How, then, can a > child drown when not even fully delivered?
Many babies start breathing before the umbilical chord is cut. As a matter of fact, I would think, the chord would not be cut BEFORE the baby has taken his/her first breath:). While the lungs may need to be cleared before the baby can breathe, that is not always the case. I know that my daughter was crying, hence breathing, before her body was delivered. My son wasn’t, but he neede oxygen. I would think that a baby needing that kind of help before breathing is not a good thing. > Also, newborns have an inherent ability to hold their breath when submerged. > They can hold it for a short period, about 30-60 seconds. They lose this > reflex after about 6 months. Take a look at "Intimate Universe: The Body" for > more information.
That could be true and could prevent the babies who are born in water from actually drowning. I think that the above post was more in jest than anything else: the first poster was, most likely a troll (since there’s been no further comments heard from "Michael"). > I think what you’re quoting above is really urban legend and not factual.
It is NOT an urban legend that babies breathe before they are fully born!!! It MIGHT be an urban legend that a baby may drown if born in a pool. Either that or a pre-conceived fear of the unknown. — Danielle, Maman to Marc-Andre – May 22, 1991 and Genevieve – Dec. 18, 1995 and recently weaned Writing from Canada Parent-L Birth secretary Visit my new web-page, view new pics of the kids, and, please, sign my guest-book!! http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/home.html My ICQ # is 6463692 Canadian Special Education Chat Room – http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/canspec.html &canspec ICQ # 33710657
Response:
;> I think what you’re quoting above is really urban legend and not factual. ; ;It is NOT an urban legend that babies breathe before they are fully born!!! ;It MIGHT be an urban legend that a baby may drown if born in a pool. Either ;that or a pre-conceived fear of the unknown. That’s what I meant, that some baby drowned while being delivered in a pool.
Response:
;x-no-archive: yes ; ;Sounds like a good way to drown a baby with his/ her first breath. I ;believe a couple in the former Soviet Union lost a baby girl to drowning ;using this birth method in the mid ’80s. ; ;My first child was born in a hospital and started crying before he was all ;the way out of the birth canal. I believe one shoulder had been born when ;he took his first breath. We have witnesses to this. ; ;up state ny mom Correct me if I’m wrong, but until the umbilical chord is cut, a newborn draws oxygen from that and not by breathing. Until the lungs are cleared (which is what the bulb syringe is for) the child does _not_ breath. How, then, can a child drown when not even fully delivered? Also, newborns have an inherent ability to hold their breath when submerged. They can hold it for a short period, about 30-60 seconds. They lose this reflex after about 6 months. Take a look at "Intimate Universe: The Body" for more information. I think what you’re quoting above is really urban legend and not factual. Sorry…
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I had to reply… > I have been to over 100 births, including the birth of my 5 year old son. > Babies are never held by their ankles and slapped on the bottom. Trust me, new > born babies are very slippery and you need to grab more than an ankle to keep > them from falling on the floor! :-) > Babies are wrapped in blankets because they are wet and need to be dried off. > If not, they will drop their body temp rather quickly. > There are very few nurseries anymore in the hospitals I have worked in. Babies > are kept with their mothers. They might be taken away for a brief time so that > they can be examined. This way, any problems that might be found can be helped > as soon as possible. > As far as having a baby boy circed, I have see quite a few as well. Yes, > babies do cry. I have never seen "the baby scream frantically, defecate, lapse > into a coma; or fall into a state of shock from which he cannot even scream his > pain and terror." Babies might hold their breath, but I have never seen one > lapse into a coma. > Parents today to not let their newborn baby lie in a bed a cry. They hold and > care for their newborn baby. As someone else said, read any baby book written > after 1980. > Breastfeeding is a wonderful thing. That said, is it not for everyone and > people who choose not to breast feed should not be told that they are evil > mothers. > I think I have gone on enough. I’m sure I am feeding a troll, but I could not > help myself. > Have a nice day, everyone! > Amy
Yep, I think it’s about time that Michael realized he’s not in Kansas anymore. — Leonie Lawson Co-Creator of Maia Shea (19/11/96) and Casta Grace (9/8/98) dum vivimus, vivamus (while we live, let us live)
Response:
> Somehow I must have missed the original post and now I`m curious what > it said. Was it an article or web site? Can someone repost it > please? I`ve just got to see this! > TIA > Pam > mom to Max, 1991 > Ted, b. June 11- d. July 12, 1995 > Cassie, 1996
Gladly although to repost such rubbish is pushing my conscience a tad. — Leonie Lawson Co-Creator of Maia Shea (19/11/96) and Casta Grace (9/8/98) dum vivimus, vivamus (while we live, let us live) A Baby is Born Let us contemplate for a moment the way that a typical baby is brought into this world, in this country. The baby, having just been born and having exited one type of world and entered into a whole new world, emerges into the hands of a total stranger, who then, with a firmness and confidence that bespeaks of the baby’s parents, grabs the baby by its ankles and turns the baby upside down. The baby’s greeting into this world will be a firm slap on its butt by a stranger, as the baby hangs helplessly upside down, as waves of blood surge into the baby’s brain, and as the baby’s underdeveloped body struggles to maintain its newly born structural integrity against the forces of gravity. Strangers will then necessarily cut the connection between the baby and its mother, and then the baby, having lived comfortably within its mother’s womb for all its life and now under the control of strangers, is hesitantly allowed to spend a few moments with its mother, a few moments of bonding with one of the baby’s creators, but is then almost immediately handed to another stranger, is wrapped up in materials that would comfort and warm the baby no more than being held close by its mother, and is then carted off to a room full of other babies who have just gone through the same thing, many of them screaming and crying, and all of them experiencing a certain loneliness that they have not known in their entire short existence. A few days later, if the baby is a boy, the baby is most likely taken again by strangers, placed spread-eagle on his back on a board as his arms and legs are strapped down so that he can’t move. His genitals are scrubbed and covered with antiseptic by one of the strangers. The foreskin of his penis, still attached to his glans as a matter of birth, is torn from the glans and slit lengthwise so that a sharp cutting instrument can be inserted. Then the baby’s foreskin is cut off by one of the strangers, usually without anesthetic, while the baby screams frantically, defecates, lapses into a coma; or falls into a state of shock from which he cannot even scream his pain and terror. For the next seven to ten days, while one of the most sensitive parts of the baby’s body is healing, the baby is given no pain medication. As the baby screams and cries from his alienation and his pain, his parents fail to hold and comfort him, as they have been told that it is not a good idea to hold their baby too much, having usually been given that advice by some of the same strangers who were around the baby when he came into this world. This is how most baby boys spend the first two weeks of their life on this world. The horror and terror will continue later, for both male and female babies, as the baby will soon discover that it is under the "protection" and "control" of the very same people who allowed all those strangers to do all those things to the baby; under the protection and control of its "parents" for the next several years of its life. Worse than that, the baby’s parents may be under the "protection" and "control" of some of those strangers who did all those things to the baby, and those very same people intend to continue to share advice with the baby’s parents, such advice which will just add to the horror and terror that the baby will be forced to experience in its life. Such horror and terror will sometimes take the form of the baby being fed the mother’s milk of strange animals or the chemical concoctions of corporations, as opposed to being nurtured close to mother’s breast and feeding on mother nature’s natural nutrition. Baby may also soon be shunned into prison-like constructs such as cribs and playpens and strollers, products that were manufactured, recommended, and sold by the associates of the same strangers who so rudely helped bring the baby into the world in the first place, as opposed to sleeping and necessarily doing their nightly business in the same bed as Mommy and Daddy, and as opposed to being slung close to the bosom of Mommy and Daddy and being within close proximity of their immediately attention and nurturing as they necessarily go about their daily business. Later on, the first word that the baby will learn, and the word most often spoken to the baby and around the baby, will most likely be the word "no," flung around by Mommy and Daddy like a veritable primary instruction which the baby eventually interprets as apparently being designed to prevent the baby from reaching out into the world and exploring. As the baby grows, there will be more and more restrictions placed on its actions, restrictions which the baby little understands and which, by the nature of their being as babies and children, they little know may be an attempt to prevent them from causing harm to themselves or to other people and property. The imposed horror and terror of the prisoner-like nature of its existence, will soon cause the baby to grow up into a child who will continually seek freedom of expression, and whose primary desire in life may eventually turn out to be liberating themselves from the wardens who were once parents and who instead have become what the child believes are now its primary enemies in life, and the people who are trying to keep them from exploring the world, learning the lessons of civilization, and discovering the truth about life in the Universe. Soon enough, the horror and terror will become such a regular and normal part of the child’s life and the child will become so accustomed to all the alienation and pain, that the child will not even realize that it is truly horror and terror; the child will soon learn to embrace and accept most of what has happened, and will begin to inflict some of that same horror and terror on other people, perhaps on the child’s parents, and most likely, unfortunately, on the child’s own children. Even worse, perhaps, will be if the child, instead of learning to lash out at the people and the society which abused the child, withdraws into its own private little world and rejects that society and those people who have inflicted such pain and suffering, and horror and terror, upon the child, and becomes what has been described as "autistic" to the world which treated that beautiful child with so little regard. God bless that child, and God bless every child that comes into this world, and any other world, in the Universes of Infinity. An Alternative? Having seen the rule, how about an alternative that could serve as an exception and which might one day become mainstream? Mommy and Daddy are nude in a small pool. The water in the pool is heated to a temperature close to that of the womb. The baby is birthed under water, and by the baby’s Daddy. Yes, after having lived in Mommy’s womb for all its life, the first person with whom the baby connects will be Daddy, because Daddy will birth the baby! After birth, the baby is kept under water for a few seconds, and then the baby’s head is brought above the water line while the baby is caressed between Mommy and Daddy. The umbilical cord and afterbirth are cleared from Mommy by Daddy while baby remains in their caress, and after a few minutes more, the umbilical cord is cut at the baby by Daddy, while the baby’s body is still under water. Mommy and Daddy continue to caress baby for several minutes, until finally they slowly remove baby from the water while continuing to caress the baby between them. The baby never leaves the arms of its Mommy and Daddy, and is taken to a bed where the baby will lie in caress with Mommy and Daddy until falling asleep. At that time, the baby can be checked by a doctor and can be removed to home, if not home already. Of course, while Mommy was pregnant she has been drinking a regimen of natural herbal teas, and using other herbal supplements, perhaps ginseng and perhaps bee pollen; and she will have healthy and nutritious breast milk for her baby. Baby will never be more than a few feet away from any parent at any time, and will often be in the arms of Mommy or Daddy. In fact, the favored place of the baby will be in the arms of Mommy or Daddy, and the baby will sleep in the same bed as Mommy and Daddy for as long as the baby wants, until the baby says it wants a bed of its own. And the baby will often be carried by Mommy and Daddy close to their bosoms, slung near to their hearts and within close proximity of their immediate attention and nurturing. And when the baby is alone and cries, the baby will be attended to immediately by Mommy or Daddy, and will never long for the caress of either parent. As the baby matures, Mommy and Daddy will never deny any love or attention to the baby, and the baby will receive 24 hour attention and all the love of the baby’s parents. Now tell me, don’t you think the world would be a little better place if the children were born into it in this manner? ~ Waterbirth Website – http://www.wenet.net/~karil/menu.html Water Birth: Giving birth underwater; a very gentle choice – http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/2840/ ~ Attachment Parenting – http://het.brown.edu/people/kjp/stuff/old/aplinks.htm About Wearing Your Baby – http://www.cuddler.com/about.htm Importance of the In-Arms Phase – http://www.continuum-concept.org/reading/in-arms.html The Baby Wearing Home Page – http://members.aol.com/ljcblue/ Baby Wearing – Parenting Babies and Toddlers Net Links – http://babyparenting.miningco.com/msubslings.htm Baby-wearing instructions – … read more »
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>How many women can say that they gave birth to >their son in a full size bed, with candles lit, listening to the John >Tesh christmas album?
The candles and the bed I guess might be okay. But the John Tesh album? I don’t know that I’d want to expose MY baby to THAT kind of risk……. Josie–mommy to Sarah (10), Lynne (6), and Parker (4) by the way, the name is: Dieu Vous Garde "I have measured out my life with coffee spoons."….T.S.Eliot
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>I have been to over 100 births, including the birth of my 5 year old son.
Gee, how remarkable! I dunno where I was while giving birth……hmmmnnnn, let’s see, I’m trying to think. Oh that’s right…..I was having an out-of-body experience and was really at Hardees eating whoppers. Josie–mommy to Sarah (10), Lynne (6), and Parker (4) by the way, the name is: Dieu Vous Garde Heck was created for people who believe in Gosh.
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Somehow I must have missed the original post and now I`m curious what it said. Was it an article or web site? Can someone repost it please? I`ve just got to see this! TIA Pam mom to Max, 1991 Ted, b. June 11- d. July 12, 1995 Cassie, 1996
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> >How many women can say that they gave birth to >their son in a full size bed, with candles lit, listening to the John >Tesh christmas album? > The candles and the bed I guess might be okay. But the John Tesh album? I don’t > know that I’d want to expose MY baby to THAT kind of risk……. > Josie–mommy to Sarah (10), Lynne (6), and Parker (4) > by the way, the name is: Dieu Vous Garde > "I have measured out my life with coffee spoons."….T.S.Eliot
Josie, you read my mind. :) — Leonie Lawson Co-Creator of Maia Shea (19/11/96) and Casta Grace (9/8/98) dum vivimus, vivamus (while we live, let us live)
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> | Don’t make me laugh, me and my husband naked in a pool to deliver my baby? LOL > Okay, this is maybe an odd question, and certainly off-topic, but now > you’ve got me curious: are there places where it is the practice for > the birthing mother to *not* be nude during the last phase of > delivery?
I wore a hospital gown for both of my daughters births. Most women at the hospital did so we were told, and so I had gathered that this was probably normal in developed countries. I thought that was the norm. I know i couldn’t have > handled having clothes on when my son was born; they would have been > too constricting, and besides, my body was putting out about ten > billion BTUs anyway. Would the baby be placed on top of the mother’s > nightgown or whatever? Nursing the newborn would also seem to be a > problem…
The babies for me were placed on top of the gown. With Casta it was straight away and with Maia it was after she had been given oxygen (five minutes) as she had passed meconium during the contractions. Both hospital gowns (front and back opening) were no problem when breastfeeding as the front ones are obvious and the back openings could easily slip forward over your shoulder and arm. — Leonie Lawson Co-Creator of Maia Shea (19/11/96) and Casta Grace (9/8/98) dum vivimus, vivamus (while we live, let us live)
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>you’ve got me curious: are there places where it is the practice for >the birthing mother to *not* be nude during the last phase of >delivery?
I live in Maryland, and I had my 3 by natural childbirth (no drugs of any kind), but here we don’t do it SO natural as to be completely nude. I don’t even ‘want’ to think about giving birth in front of all the nurses and my doctor nude. > Would the baby be placed on top of the mother’s >nightgown or whatever?
Mine were. >I do agree that there’s no point in the father being nude, unless he >really wants to be for some reason.
What a hoot! My hubby in the delivery room naked? PLEASE!!!!!! >Did doctors >*ever* actually hang babies upside down and slap their bottoms, other >than in the movies?
My mother says that that’s true, they did do this back then. Josie–mommy to Sarah (10), Lynne (6), and Parker (4) by the way, the name is: Dieu Vous Garde "I have measured out my life with coffee spoons."….T.S.Eliot
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Don’t make me laugh, me and my husband naked in a pool to deliver my baby? LOL It’s up to each parent what they do with their baby and no one way is the RIGHT way. jen The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. (Einstein)
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I had to reply… I have been to over 100 births, including the birth of my 5 year old son. Babies are never held by their ankles and slapped on the bottom. Trust me, new born babies are very slippery and you need to grab more than an ankle to keep them from falling on the floor! :-) Babies are wrapped in blankets because they are wet and need to be dried off. If not, they will drop their body temp rather quickly. There are very few nurseries anymore in the hospitals I have worked in. Babies are kept with their mothers. They might be taken away for a brief time so that they can be examined. This way, any problems that might be found can be helped as soon as possible. As far as having a baby boy circed, I have see quite a few as well. Yes, babies do cry. I have never seen "the baby scream frantically, defecate, lapse into a coma; or fall into a state of shock from which he cannot even scream his pain and terror." Babies might hold their breath, but I have never seen one lapse into a coma. Parents today to not let their newborn baby lie in a bed a cry. They hold and care for their newborn baby. As someone else said, read any baby book written after 1980. Breastfeeding is a wonderful thing. That said, is it not for everyone and people who choose not to breast feed should not be told that they are evil mothers. I think I have gone on enough. I’m sure I am feeding a troll, but I could not help myself. Have a nice day, everyone! Amy
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| Don’t make me laugh, me and my husband naked in a pool to deliver my baby? LOL Okay, this is maybe an odd question, and certainly off-topic, but now you’ve got me curious: are there places where it is the practice for the birthing mother to *not* be nude during the last phase of delivery? I thought that was the norm. I know i couldn’t have handled having clothes on when my son was born; they would have been too constricting, and besides, my body was putting out about ten billion BTUs anyway. Would the baby be placed on top of the mother’s nightgown or whatever? Nursing the newborn would also seem to be a problem… I do agree that there’s no point in the father being nude, unless he really wants to be for some reason. (If the parents choose a water birth, what’s wrong with Dad wearing swim trunks and an old T-shirt if it makes him more comfortable?) And i also don’t recognize very much of the description of the "normal" hospital birth in the original article. The nurse did take our son away to weigh him, wipe off the vernix and wrap him up… took two minutes, and they were in the same room as us the whole time – then he was put back in my arms, and only left my side at *my* request for the remainder of the hospital stay. (I did, after all, need to have a shower now and then.) Did doctors *ever* actually hang babies upside down and slap their bottoms, other than in the movies? I also wonder how it’s supposed to make any difference to the baby who cuts the cord and cleans up the afterbirth? The umbilical cord has no nerve endings; the baby is probably vaguely aware it’s there, but he’s not going to feel it being cut unless you really yank on it. And the afterbirth is no longer connected to him at all by the time it’s cleared away. Bonding with a human infant isn’t like imprinting baby goslings; babies don’t follow the first moving thing they see, but bond gradually with the people who love them and care for them over the course of weeks or *months*. Otherwise adoptive parents, or parents of preemies who need lots of medical care IMMEDIATELY, would never be able to bond with their children, and clearly they do! – Cindy Kandolf, mamma to Kenneth (5 years) Bilingual Families Web Page: http://www.nethelp.no/cindy/biling-fam.html
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I had my child with a midwife, and did not leave him alone for more than 2 minutes after birth. It was one of the most relaxing and wonderful experiences of my life. How many women can say that they gave birth to their son in a full size bed, with candles lit, listening to the John Tesh christmas album? Sara
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> I had my child with a midwife, and did not leave him alone for more than > 2 minutes after birth. It was one of the most relaxing and wonderful > experiences of my life. How many women can say that they gave birth to > their son in a full size bed, with candles lit, listening to the John > Tesh christmas album?
I guess I really can’t say that. However, in our case, it was simply too risky to go that way, because we live 30 minutes from the nearest maternity ward and because of the fact that our first almost died at birth. The ONLY reason that the situation got better was because I was still hooked to the fetal heart monitor, which detected the fact that his heartbeat decreased drastically during every push (from 140 bpm to 40 bpm). I was then instructed to lie on my left and that’s how I gave birth. In my case, both birth experiences were quite pleasant, even though they were in an hospital environment: When my first was born, I was attended by a former supervisor of mine. She is a VERY pleasant woman, and, since we hadn’t met in more than 10 years, we chatted about my home time, mutual acquaintances and her children the whole time. She was really sympathetic when I was having trouble. I also was very comfortable with my doctor, who had just helped his wife with the birth of his third son a few weeks before. We were in the hospital’s only birthing room and the whole experience was very nice. When my second was born, I again was attended by very nice nurses. This doctor, again, was very personable and I felt secure with him. This time, the hospital ONLY had birthing rooms and they were GREAT!! Big, nice and comfy. This time, my daughter NEVER left my side. She was with me the whole time. Sure, there were no candles and no music, however, I felt safe, both for me and my babies. That HAS to account for something too!!! — Danielle, Maman to Marc-Andre – May 22, 1991 and Genevieve – Dec. 18, 1995 and recently weaned Writing from Canada Parent-L Birth secretary Visit my new web-page, view new pics of the kids, and, please, sign my guest-book!! http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/home.html My ICQ # is 6463692 Canadian Special Education Chat Room – http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/canspec.html &canspec ICQ # 33710657
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> | Don’t make me laugh, me and my husband naked in a pool to deliver my baby? LOL > Okay, this is maybe an odd question, and certainly off-topic, but now > you’ve got me curious: are there places where it is the practice for > the birthing mother to *not* be nude during the last phase of > delivery? I thought that was the norm. I know i couldn’t have > handled having clothes on when my son was born; they would have been > too constricting, and besides, my body was putting out about ten > billion BTUs anyway. Would the baby be placed on top of the mother’s > nightgown or whatever? Nursing the newborn would also seem to be a > problem…
No, I was NOT nude for either of the births, though, granted, there was not MUCH of me that was covered, LOL. And, no, they do not put the baby on top of the nightgown, they put the baby on your bare tummy. As far as nursing, when my daughter was born I was wearing a front opening hospital gown and she had VERY easy access to my breasts. Even with the nightgown that opened in the back I was wearing when my son was born, I just undid the restraints and gave him access. It was that easy. About the heat, since my daughter was born on one of the coldest days of history, that was NOT a problem: I welcomed the heat generated by my body. And there was air-conditionning in the room when my son was born. Even then, a light cotton night gown won’t make much difference. And it was in no way restrictive. — Danielle, Maman to Marc-Andre – May 22, 1991 and Genevieve – Dec. 18, 1995 and recently weaned Writing from Canada Parent-L Birth secretary Visit my new web-page, view new pics of the kids, and, please, sign my guest-book!! http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/home.html My ICQ # is 6463692 Canadian Special Education Chat Room – http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/canspec.html &canspec ICQ # 33710657
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> Geez
When did you last see a birth? In the 1950’s.? My experience was not like this at all. My baby roomed in at the hosptial, was nursed and picked up when she cried. As a former L&D nurse I can honestly say I have never seen a baby held upside down and slapped on the bottom. Nor have I ever seen a baby lapse into a coma during circumcision. Your opinion of hospital births and parenting techiniques is incorrect I think for many hospitals and educated parents. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Waterbirth Website – > http://www.wenet.net/~karil/menu.html > Water Birth: Giving birth underwater; a very gentle choice – > http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/2840/ > ~ > Attachment Parenting – > http://het.brown.edu/people/kjp/stuff/old/aplinks.htm > About Wearing Your Baby – > http://www.cuddler.com/about.htm > Importance of the In-Arms Phase – > http://www.continuum-concept.org/reading/in-arms.html > The Baby Wearing Home Page – > http://members.aol.com/ljcblue/ > Baby Wearing – Parenting Babies and Toddlers Net Links – > http://babyparenting.miningco.com/msubslings.htm > Baby-wearing instructions – > http://www.kidstuff.com/step.html > Slings vs. Conventional Baby Carriers – > http://www.mothersnature.com/babywear/carriers.html > Slings – everything you ever wanted to know – > http://sling.org/ > kidstuff.com — Slings – > http://www.kidstuff.com/sling.html > The Nursing Baby – > http://nursingbaby.com/ > Heart to Heart Baby Slings – > http://heart2heart.on.ca/ > Slings ‘n’ Things – > http://www.slingsnthings.com/ > Michael > http://www.universalway.org/
Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
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> Angel here
<snipped a great post for the sake of brevity> > But I think the writer of the original article needs to > be educated about modern birth, as opposed to > 25-30 years ago.
I agree. I even wonder if some, or any, of "his" examples ever really applied!!!! — Danielle, Maman to Marc-Andre – May 22, 1991 and Genevieve – Dec. 18, 1995 and recently weaned Writing from Canada Parent-L Birth secretary Visit my new web-page, view new pics of the kids, and, please, sign my guest-book!! http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/home.html My ICQ # is 6463692 Canadian Special Education Chat Room – http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/canspec.html &canspec ICQ # 33710657
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Somehow I disagree with a lot of what you have said here. My wife and I just had a baby girl on 9/10/99. These situations you say happen probably do happen to some extent everywhere. However, most people and doctors do not operate this way. When our child was first born the doctor in now way turned the baby upside down and did not hold her by the ankles. Strangers will then necessarily cut the connection between the baby and its mother, and then the baby, having lived comfortably within its mother’s womb for all its life and now under the control of strangers, is hesitantly allowed to spend a few moments with its mother, a few moments of bonding with one of the baby’s creators, but is then almost immediately handed to another stranger, is wrapped up in materials that would comfort and warm the baby no more than being held close by its mother, and is then carted off to a room full of other babies who have just gone through the same thing, many of them screaming and crying, and all of them experiencing a certain loneliness that they have not known in their entire short existence. This is almost entirely garbage. In NO way will the doctors andnurses take that child away from a healthy mother and a healthy child. The only situations that this occurs is when one the two has pressing medical needs. If the doctor says that they need to take the baby away right away the mother only has to stand firm that she wants the baby with her and the doctor should appease her. Yes it is true that at some point in the near future the child will be taken away to be cleaned, measured and checked out by a pediatrican this by no means means that parents and child need to be seperated. When my child was weighed and bathed I was right there in the nursery with the nurse comforting that child. There is no reason not to be. I think you just tried to overexaggerate (sp?) your point. You made your way seem to be perfect and the other way seem to be evil. I think that somewhere in the middle is more likely how this situation is in actuality. Estlin
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Angel here > Why does it have to be either of those extremes?
It doesn’t. There are myriad grey areas. I am very much a hospital birther. I have enough physical problems that I am considered high risk now. Both hospitals I have used have had birthing rooms, very comfortable, very cozy. No changing in mid labor from labor room to gurney to delivery room table. (does anyone _still_ do that?) I opted for no drugs at first. On the first one, I didn’t need any, on the second, I asked but was too close to delivery. On the third I had Staidol to take the edge off. > While my son and daughter were birthed by doctors, they were NOT held by > the heals, upside down.
I’ve _never_ encountered a doctor who does this. And I have had 4 different doctors (group practice), and asked 3 others about policy. They have all cradled the child very carefully, supporting the head, and laid it on my stomach. > They were NOT slapped on the buttocks to help them > breathe.
Nor here either, since most took their first breath while I was delivering the hips. My daughter was complaining the whole time I was delivering her body. My first son wailed at all the strange faces (There were over a dozen people in the delivery, looked like the Monty Python Meaning of Life thing) My second son wasn’t caught by the doctor at all. I had as close to home-birth with him as I could get. He landed on the mattress, the bed not even changed. >Both of them were lain on my stomach, in such a position that I > could see them and watch them and hold them. While the doctor DID cut the > cord for my son, in order to take him to the nursery so that he could give > him oxygen, because he was not breathing, my husband was the one to cut the > cord for my daughter.
The doctor cut the cord for all three of mine, because my husband was too busy giving _me_ oxygen. He also has a thing about blood. We were given an hour or so bonding time, and when baby fell asleep, it was taken to the nursery. I nursed all three of mine in the delivery room (passing them off to their dad when the dr. started sewing up the tears, no time for an episiotomy) > When I was not holding him, his father was. My > daughter was with us the whole time. Neither babies were swaddled in cloth > or blankets immediately, because the temperature in the room was nice and > cozy.
Ours were swaddled, but there was plenty of skin contact at later times. >While SOME baby boys are circed in the early days of their life, not > all of them are and the parents are the ones to decide. FWIW, some > hospitals won’t even do it!!!
It’s a personal and religious decision. The rates are way down from what they were when our parents were having kids. >MOST parents hold their babies tenderly and > on demand in the first few days, weeks and months of life, whether or not > the baby was circed. While it is true that the majority of parents believe > in Crying-it-out, sleeping alone, etc. etc., not all parents do. DH and I > certainly don’t!!!!
I believe in sleeping alone after weaning. By then, the baby is big enough to be a nuisance in bed (esp. if the whole family sleeps actively) and in our family, only our daughter sleeps alone. Her brothers share a room. Also, the "don’t hold the baby, you’ll spoil him" notion has really gone by the wayside. Anyone reading a book on parenting published since 1980 will tell you that. > As far as giving birth, with both parents nude in a pool, without any > medical help in attendence, while there is nothing wrong with this > approach, it is certainly not a must. Not everyone is comfortable with this > approach.
That whole idea scares the daylights out of me. I can’t swim, my husband can’t, and with Rh problems medical help is necessary. And being stark naked would make hubby so uncomfortable he’d be no help at all. > Since my own children were born, hospital practices have changed even more > so that the whole family can stay at the hospital for the whole time mom > and baby need to be there.
One cannot even begin to compare the practices described in _Birth without violence_ to a typical hospital birth today. Times have changed dramatically. > While I know there are some who challenge an > hospital stay, I also know too many babies who were severely dehydrated, > due to undiagnosed jaundice, to feel comfortable with such an approach.
Had we not stayed, my children’s heart murmurs would have gone undetected. A potentially fatal situation. My father’s good friend lost his first granddaughter to heart failure within months of her birth. My dad was panicking worse than I was about the diagnosis. > This is not criticism of those who opt for that approach, it is simply MY > feelings on the issue.
One size fits all is an incomplete sentence. Whether it applies to clothes, deliveries, or houses. But I think the writer of the original article needs to be educated about modern birth, as opposed to 25-30 years ago. Angel, Mom to Victoria 7, Christopher 4, and Jonathan almost 2, and Olivia due 1/1/00
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Why does it have to be either of those extremes? My babies were born in an hospital, because I was too insecure to have the first one at home and because I couldn’t risk having the second one at home after almost loosing the first one, due to the fact that his heart rate drastically dropped whenever I pushed. While my son and daughter were birthed by doctors, they were NOT held by the heals, upside down. They were NOT slapped on the buttocks to help them breathe. Both of them were lain on my stomach, in such a position that I could see them and watch them and hold them. While the doctor DID cut the cord for my son, in order to take him to the nursery so that he could give him oxygen, because he was not breathing, my husband was the one to cut the cord for my daughter. Even though my son WAS taken away, for a few minutes, he was returned to me almost immediately and I was holding him and bonding with him as the nurse, who happened to be a former supervisor of mine, tenderly tended to him. When I was not holding him, his father was. My daughter was with us the whole time. Neither babies were swaddled in cloth or blankets immediately, because the temperature in the room was nice and cozy. While SOME baby boys are circed in the early days of their life, not all of them are and the parents are the ones to decide. FWIW, some hospitals won’t even do it!!! MOST parents hold their babies tenderly and on demand in the first few days, weeks and months of life, whether or not the baby was circed. While it is true that the majority of parents believe in Crying-it-out, sleeping alone, etc. etc., not all parents do. DH and I certainly don’t!!!! As far as giving birth, with both parents nude in a pool, without any medical help in attendence, while there is nothing wrong with this approach, it is certainly not a must. Not everyone is comfortable with this approach. Because of the fact that almost ALL babies born in my family needed medical tendering immediately after their birth (my daughter is the only one who didn’t), I certainly would not have felt right giving birth at home. If my sister had, her daughter would have died. If I had, my son may have died. My nephew’s blood sugar was sooo low that he needed extra sugar and my brother’s wife had contracted a bacteria during pregnancy, which meant their son had to be monitored for a few days after his birth. Since my own children were born, hospital practices have changed even more so that the whole family can stay at the hospital for the whole time mom and baby need to be there. While I know there are some who challenge an hospital stay, I also know too many babies who were severely dehydrated, due to undiagnosed jaundice, to feel comfortable with such an approach. This is not criticism of those who opt for that approach, it is simply MY feelings on the issue. — Danielle, Maman to Marc-Andre – May 22, 1991 and Genevieve – Dec. 18, 1995 and recently weaned Writing from Canada Parent-L Birth secretary Visit my new web-page, view new pics of the kids, and, please, sign my guest-book!! http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/home.html My ICQ # is 6463692 Canadian Special Education Chat Room – http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/canspec.html &canspec ICQ # 33710657
Response:
A Baby is Born Let us contemplate for a moment the way that a typical baby is brought into this world, in this country. The baby, having just been born and having exited one type of world and entered into a whole new world, emerges into the hands of a total stranger, who then, with a firmness and confidence that bespeaks of the baby’s parents, grabs the baby by its ankles and turns the baby upside down. The baby’s greeting into this world will be a firm slap on its butt by a stranger, as the baby hangs helplessly upside down, as waves of blood surge into the baby’s brain, and as the baby’s underdeveloped body struggles to maintain its newly born structural integrity against the forces of gravity. Strangers will then necessarily cut the connection between the baby and its mother, and then the baby, having lived comfortably within its mother’s womb for all its life and now under the control of strangers, is hesitantly allowed to spend a few moments with its mother, a few moments of bonding with one of the baby’s creators, but is then almost immediately handed to another stranger, is wrapped up in materials that would comfort and warm the baby no more than being held close by its mother, and is then carted off to a room full of other babies who have just gone through the same thing, many of them screaming and crying, and all of them experiencing a certain loneliness that they have not known in their entire short existence. A few days later, if the baby is a boy, the baby is most likely taken again by strangers, placed spread-eagle on his back on a board as his arms and legs are strapped down so that he can’t move. His genitals are scrubbed and covered with antiseptic by one of the strangers. The foreskin of his penis, still attached to his glans as a matter of birth, is torn from the glans and slit lengthwise so that a sharp cutting instrument can be inserted. Then the baby’s foreskin is cut off by one of the strangers, usually without anesthetic, while the baby screams frantically, defecates, lapses into a coma; or falls into a state of shock from which he cannot even scream his pain and terror. For the next seven to ten days, while one of the most sensitive parts of the baby’s body is healing, the baby is given no pain medication. As the baby screams and cries from his alienation and his pain, his parents fail to hold and comfort him, as they have been told that it is not a good idea to hold their baby too much, having usually been given that advice by some of the same strangers who were around the baby when he came into this world. This is how most baby boys spend the first two weeks of their life on this world. The horror and terror will continue later, for both male and female babies, as the baby will soon discover that it is under the "protection" and "control" of the very same people who allowed all those strangers to do all those things to the baby; under the protection and control of its "parents" for the next several years of its life. Worse than that, the baby’s parents may be under the "protection" and "control" of some of those strangers who did all those things to the baby, and those very same people intend to continue to share advice with the baby’s parents, such advice which will just add to the horror and terror that the baby will be forced to experience in its life. Such horror and terror will sometimes take the form of the baby being fed the mother’s milk of strange animals or the chemical concoctions of corporations, as opposed to being nurtured close to mother’s breast and feeding on mother nature’s natural nutrition. Baby may also soon be shunned into prison-like constructs such as cribs and playpens and strollers, products that were manufactured, recommended, and sold by the associates of the same strangers who so rudely helped bring the baby into the world in the first place, as opposed to sleeping and necessarily doing their nightly business in the same bed as Mommy and Daddy, and as opposed to being slung close to the bosom of Mommy and Daddy and being within close proximity of their immediately attention and nurturing as they necessarily go about their daily business. Later on, the first word that the baby will learn, and the word most often spoken to the baby and around the baby, will most likely be the word "no," flung around by Mommy and Daddy like a veritable primary instruction which the baby eventually interprets as apparently being designed to prevent the baby from reaching out into the world and exploring. As the baby grows, there will be more and more restrictions placed on its actions, restrictions which the baby little understands and which, by the nature of their being as babies and children, they little know may be an attempt to prevent them from causing harm to themselves or to other people and property. The imposed horror and terror of the prisoner-like nature of its existence, will soon cause the baby to grow up into a child who will continually seek freedom of expression, and whose primary desire in life may eventually turn out to be liberating themselves from the wardens who were once parents and who instead have become what the child believes are now its primary enemies in life, and the people who are trying to keep them from exploring the world, learning the lessons of civilization, and discovering the truth about life in the Universe. Soon enough, the horror and terror will become such a regular and normal part of the child’s life and the child will become so accustomed to all the alienation and pain, that the child will not even realize that it is truly horror and terror; the child will soon learn to embrace and accept most of what has happened, and will begin to inflict some of that same horror and terror on other people, perhaps on the child’s parents, and most likely, unfortunately, on the child’s own children. Even worse, perhaps, will be if the child, instead of learning to lash out at the people and the society which abused the child, withdraws into its own private little world and rejects that society and those people who have inflicted such pain and suffering, and horror and terror, upon the child, and becomes what has been described as "autistic" to the world which treated that beautiful child with so little regard. God bless that child, and God bless every child that comes into this world, and any other world, in the Universes of Infinity. An Alternative? Having seen the rule, how about an alternative that could serve as an exception and which might one day become mainstream? Mommy and Daddy are nude in a small pool. The water in the pool is heated to a temperature close to that of the womb. The baby is birthed under water, and by the baby’s Daddy. Yes, after having lived in Mommy’s womb for all its life, the first person with whom the baby connects will be Daddy, because Daddy will birth the baby! After birth, the baby is kept under water for a few seconds, and then the baby’s head is brought above the water line while the baby is caressed between Mommy and Daddy. The umbilical cord and afterbirth are cleared from Mommy by Daddy while baby remains in their caress, and after a few minutes more, the umbilical cord is cut at the baby by Daddy, while the baby’s body is still under water. Mommy and Daddy continue to caress baby for several minutes, until finally they slowly remove baby from the water while continuing to caress the baby between them. The baby never leaves the arms of its Mommy and Daddy, and is taken to a bed where the baby will lie in caress with Mommy and Daddy until falling asleep. At that time, the baby can be checked by a doctor and can be removed to home, if not home already. Of course, while Mommy was pregnant she has been drinking a regimen of natural herbal teas, and using other herbal supplements, perhaps ginseng and perhaps bee pollen; and she will have healthy and nutritious breast milk for her baby. Baby will never be more than a few feet away from any parent at any time, and will often be in the arms of Mommy or Daddy. In fact, the favored place of the baby will be in the arms of Mommy or Daddy, and the baby will sleep in the same bed as Mommy and Daddy for as long as the baby wants, until the baby says it wants a bed of its own. And the baby will often be carried by Mommy and Daddy close to their bosoms, slung near to their hearts and within close proximity of their immediate attention and nurturing. And when the baby is alone and cries, the baby will be attended to immediately by Mommy or Daddy, and will never long for the caress of either parent. As the baby matures, Mommy and Daddy will never deny any love or attention to the baby, and the baby will receive 24 hour attention and all the love of the baby’s parents. Now tell me, don’t you think the world would be a little better place if the children were born into it in this manner? ~ Waterbirth Website – http://www.wenet.net/~karil/menu.html Water Birth: Giving birth underwater; a very gentle choice – http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/2840/ ~ Attachment Parenting – http://het.brown.edu/people/kjp/stuff/old/aplinks.htm About Wearing Your Baby – http://www.cuddler.com/about.htm Importance of the In-Arms Phase – http://www.continuum-concept.org/reading/in-arms.html The Baby Wearing Home Page – http://members.aol.com/ljcblue/ Baby Wearing – Parenting Babies and Toddlers Net Links – http://babyparenting.miningco.com/msubslings.htm Baby-wearing instructions – http://www.kidstuff.com/step.html Slings vs. Conventional Baby Carriers – http://www.mothersnature.com/babywear/carriers.html Slings – everything you ever wanted to know – http://sling.org/ kidstuff.com — Slings – http://www.kidstuff.com/sling.html The Nursing Baby – http://nursingbaby.com/ Heart to Heart Baby Slings – http://heart2heart.on.ca/ Slings ‘n’ Things – http://www.slingsnthings.com/ Michael http://www.universalway.org/
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