Question:
> > The treatment this child got was wrong but you seem to miss there are legit > treatments for this disorder. > It wasn’t treatment, it was a vicious assault.
I do not support such treatment either. > And not liking someone who > later demonstrated themselves to have contempt for your personal > boundaries to the point of killing you is hardly a "disorder."
So you know this case and enough about psychology to give us your expert advice? > This was about an adoptive parent trying to force an adoptive child to > please the parent, and about quack therapists who took money to torture > the child into compliance, using a bunch of nonsense to medicalize using > suffocation as punishment.
No! This was about a parent going to extremes in hope of helping a child. I do not condone the treatment options she chose but it does speak to a larger problem people with mental health problems face every day in that treatment can not address everything. > Anyone with the least understanding of Soviet-style "medicalization of > dissent" will not be fooled by this clown act. All these people deserve > life sentences as an example to other parents and therapists who think > they can get away with such antics.
You are as extreme as the therapy this parent chose. > — > Eric Michael Cordian 0+ > O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division > "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
– A Republican is a man who made his money; a Liberal is a man who inherited his; a Democrat is a barefoot Liberal in a cross country race; a Conservative is a Republican who has learned to read and write. Q: How can you tell if someone is a level headed hillbilly? A: They have tobacco juice running out of both sides of their mouth. Oh shit! I have my webpage sort of working now. Come take a look. http://www.netcommander.com/home/liberalminded/home.html Want to make your own alt ng? Check out this before going to alt.config. http://www.dw.net/~scottzf/hamish_mcsnetter/index.html and of course go to this ng for real help alt.how.to.create.a.newsgroup
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Parents kill children to win power struggles each and every day. Why is >> this notion so difficult for you to grasp? > Yes, Eric. Since you are not a parent and I am I will let you in on a > big secret. Us parents get together once a year in groups of thirty and > kill a child between all of us. The stories of parents doing this on > their own are only the ones who can not attend the yearly child killing > conference. Adoptive parents have to kill three a year just to get > full membership. We do this Eric as we know it upsets you and since we > are parents and you are not we like to rub it in some. > This is just a variation on the usual "no one can tell a parent anything" > attitude, combined with the typical ridicule of anyone who dissents.
This was simply a sarcastic reply to an intelligent person who should know better than to take extremist positions and expect to be respected. > An excellent example of why attempting to engineer Kids’ Rights by popular > vote of parents is a waste of time, resources, and breath. > Kids will get rights when they learn to create "consequences of > significance" for those who violate them, and not one second before. > — > Eric Michael Cordian 0+ > O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division > "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
– A Republican is a man who made his money; a Liberal is a man who inherited his; a Democrat is a barefoot Liberal in a cross country race; a Conservative is a Republican who has learned to read and write. Q: How can you tell if someone is a level headed hillbilly? A: They have tobacco juice running out of both sides of their mouth. Oh shit! I have my webpage sort of working now. Come take a look. http://www.netcommander.com/home/liberalminded/home.html Want to make your own alt ng? Check out this before going to alt.config. http://www.dw.net/~scottzf/hamish_mcsnetter/index.html and of course go to this ng for real help alt.how.to.create.a.newsgroup
Response:
> >> Deliberate and reckless acts which a reasonable person would understand >> places someone at risk of serious injury or death qualify as murder in >> most states if a death does in fact result. > I dunno. I have gathered that intent is supposed to be something in > there of what constitutes a crime. The story as presented did not give > me the impression that the motive was to kill the person. > Remember the 13 year old who was playing with a gun, and firing it, and > managed to hit someone so far away that he couldn’t have possibly seen the > person or deliberately targeted them, even if he had been an expert > marksman? He was charged with first degree murder and tried as an adult.
and I thought that was wrong. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> When someone dies as the result of a grossly stupid and reckless act, it > can be murder even if the motive wasn’t specifically to kill someone. >> If someone had killed an adult in this fashion, it most certainly would be >> murder. When kids are killed, people are charged with "abuse", which >> usually carries a lesser sentence than a similar crime involving an adult >> victim. > Well, it was you who declared it to be deliberate murder. And I don’t > know that what you say is the case if some jerks did some idiotic thing > and it resulted in someone’s death. From what I have gathered they have > quite a time of it sometimes in the decision of how deliberate something > may have been and of how premeditated and all sorts of arcane legal > crap. > That’s why we need all states to enact felony murder laws, which mandate > first degree murder charges when the death of any child occurs during the > commission of felony child abuse. > Then convictions won’t require endless courtroom quibbling over whether > the parent meant to kill the child when the abuse began, which makes a > mockery of the memory of the victim, as well as wastes endless courtroom > time with equivocating.
No they would require endless quibbling over if it was felony child abuse in the first place before you could then get the other added to it. In other words the same shit would go on. > I suppose folks will insist that people who did such a stupid thing > ought to be punished. > Does this question even get asked about kids who accidently kill someone > while playing with something dangerous?
Since kids are usually tried in another setting many questions get asked and they get far more the benefit of the doubt than any adult would get which is a good thing imho. > Sauce for the gander. > — > Eric Michael Cordian 0+ > O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division > "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
– A Republican is a man who made his money; a Liberal is a man who inherited his; a Democrat is a barefoot Liberal in a cross country race; a Conservative is a Republican who has learned to read and write. Q: How can you tell if someone is a level headed hillbilly? A: They have tobacco juice running out of both sides of their mouth. Oh shit! I have my webpage sort of working now. Come take a look. http://www.netcommander.com/home/liberalminded/home.html Want to make your own alt ng? Check out this before going to alt.config. http://www.dw.net/~scottzf/hamish_mcsnetter/index.html and of course go to this ng for real help alt.how.to.create.a.newsgroup
Response:
> Deliberate murder? > Deliberate and reckless acts which a reasonable person would understand > places someone at risk of serious injury or death qualify as murder in > most states if a death does in fact result.
I dunno. I have gathered that intent is supposed to be something in there of what constitutes a crime. The story as presented did not give me the impression that the motive was to kill the person. > If someone had killed an adult in this fashion, it most certainly would be > murder. When kids are killed, people are charged with "abuse", which > usually carries a lesser sentence than a similar crime involving an adult > victim.
Well, it was you who declared it to be deliberate murder. And I don’t know that what you say is the case if some jerks did some idiotic thing and it resulted in someone’s death. From what I have gathered they have quite a time of it sometimes in the decision of how deliberate something may have been and of how premeditated and all sorts of arcane legal crap. I suppose folks will insist that people who did such a stupid thing ought to be punished. I have thoughts about that. I also consider the idea of punishment as a deterrent. I don’t have a lot of fait in the idea that setting examples is likely to deter stupid people from doing stupid things. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Eric Michael Cordian 0+ > O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division > "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
Response:
>> Deliberate and reckless acts which a reasonable person would understand > places someone at risk of serious injury or death qualify as murder in > most states if a death does in fact result. > I dunno. I have gathered that intent is supposed to be something in > there of what constitutes a crime. The story as presented did not give > me the impression that the motive was to kill the person.
Remember the 13 year old who was playing with a gun, and firing it, and managed to hit someone so far away that he couldn’t have possibly seen the person or deliberately targeted them, even if he had been an expert marksman? He was charged with first degree murder and tried as an adult. When someone dies as the result of a grossly stupid and reckless act, it can be murder even if the motive wasn’t specifically to kill someone. > If someone had killed an adult in this fashion, it most certainly would be > murder. When kids are killed, people are charged with "abuse", which > usually carries a lesser sentence than a similar crime involving an adult > victim. > Well, it was you who declared it to be deliberate murder. And I don’t > know that what you say is the case if some jerks did some idiotic thing > and it resulted in someone’s death. From what I have gathered they have > quite a time of it sometimes in the decision of how deliberate something > may have been and of how premeditated and all sorts of arcane legal > crap.
That’s why we need all states to enact felony murder laws, which mandate first degree murder charges when the death of any child occurs during the commission of felony child abuse. Then convictions won’t require endless courtroom quibbling over whether the parent meant to kill the child when the abuse began, which makes a mockery of the memory of the victim, as well as wastes endless courtroom time with equivocating. > I suppose folks will insist that people who did such a stupid thing > ought to be punished.
Does this question even get asked about kids who accidently kill someone while playing with something dangerous? Sauce for the gander. — Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
Response:
I’ve been lurking a little here… Both my spouse and I are therapists. Basically we would agree that some therapists are money grubbing really overall intentionally or unintentionally harmful. But Dana is right… laws do protect these issues. They are in place with Behavioral Health/Mental Health much the same as for any other profession. Doctors, lawyers etc. Basically the anger here is misdirected somehow by Eric. Each to his own. One of the hotbeds of discussion these days is therapy for children and the violence, medication issue. Some objectivity helps but for sure don’t take your child to a therapist expecting a miracle…. it’s the parent that makes the biggest difference. Most parents expect some miracle while they continue do display inappropriate behavior.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Do you know of the principle of informed consent? Do you understand > that the majority of mental health professionals would never treat a > child simply because that is what a parent wanted. Their obligation > would be to the client which is the child and not to the parents. > Have you read anything that’s been posted to this newsgroup in the last > three years? > First of all, parents have an absolute Constitutional right to speak for > their children, so "informed consent" for a child means the consent of the > parent, not the child. Legally, there is no concept of a child wanting > something, independent of the parent wanting that thing for the child. > With the exception of custody disputes, parents have an absolute right to > forcibly relocate a minor anywhere they like, and arrange for that minor > to be treated in any way the parents choose. > As for the majority of mental health professionals refusing to treat an > unwilling minor, that is nonsense as well. These are the very same mental > health professionals who have invented the plethora of "syndromes" and > "disorders" based on nothing more than population percentiles of some > behavior a parent or teacher disapproves of. > It borders on the absurd to suggest that having created hundreds of these > imaginary pseudo-diseases, professionals would be reluctant to accept > money to pretend to treat them. >> Kids are now jailed for refusing to stay at home, or to go >> to school, > and the past was different in what way? > During the late 60’s and 70’s, truancy and what parents like to call > "running away" were eliminated from the law books in many jurisdictions, > as were other status offenses. They were also much less often enforced > in jurisdictions where they remained on the books. >> and more and more egregious treatment of them is being >> rationalized under the "parents’ rights" platform, as well as under such >> smokescreens as "early intervention," > so you don’t want children to be tested for vision, hearing, and > learning problems as well as health concerns? > You know, I’d really appreciate it if you’d stop trolling all my > posts. You’ve demonstrated in the past that you have nothing but contempt > for kids’ rights, and that you think all evil acts by parents are the > result of innocent misguided attempts to better their childrens’ lives. > If you can’t respond with anything other than your usual hyperbolic > exaggeration and ridicule, just shut up. Your input won’t be missed, I > assure you. > — > Eric Michael Cordian 0+ > O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division > "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
Response:
>> Parents kill children to win power struggles each and every day. Why is > this notion so difficult for you to grasp? > Yes, Eric. Since you are not a parent and I am I will let you in on a > big secret. Us parents get together once a year in groups of thirty and > kill a child between all of us. The stories of parents doing this on > their own are only the ones who can not attend the yearly child killing > conference. Adoptive parents have to kill three a year just to get > full membership. We do this Eric as we know it upsets you and since we > are parents and you are not we like to rub it in some.
This is just a variation on the usual "no one can tell a parent anything" attitude, combined with the typical ridicule of anyone who dissents. An excellent example of why attempting to engineer Kids’ Rights by popular vote of parents is a waste of time, resources, and breath. Kids will get rights when they learn to create "consequences of significance" for those who violate them, and not one second before. — Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
Response:
> Do you know of the principle of informed consent? Do you understand > that the majority of mental health professionals would never treat a > child simply because that is what a parent wanted. Their obligation > would be to the client which is the child and not to the parents.
Have you read anything that’s been posted to this newsgroup in the last three years? First of all, parents have an absolute Constitutional right to speak for their children, so "informed consent" for a child means the consent of the parent, not the child. Legally, there is no concept of a child wanting something, independent of the parent wanting that thing for the child. With the exception of custody disputes, parents have an absolute right to forcibly relocate a minor anywhere they like, and arrange for that minor to be treated in any way the parents choose. As for the majority of mental health professionals refusing to treat an unwilling minor, that is nonsense as well. These are the very same mental health professionals who have invented the plethora of "syndromes" and "disorders" based on nothing more than population percentiles of some behavior a parent or teacher disapproves of. It borders on the absurd to suggest that having created hundreds of these imaginary pseudo-diseases, professionals would be reluctant to accept money to pretend to treat them. > Kids are now jailed for refusing to stay at home, or to go > to school, > and the past was different in what way?
During the late 60’s and 70’s, truancy and what parents like to call "running away" were eliminated from the law books in many jurisdictions, as were other status offenses. They were also much less often enforced in jurisdictions where they remained on the books. > and more and more egregious treatment of them is being > rationalized under the "parents’ rights" platform, as well as under such > smokescreens as "early intervention," > so you don’t want children to be tested for vision, hearing, and > learning problems as well as health concerns?
You know, I’d really appreciate it if you’d stop trolling all my posts. You’ve demonstrated in the past that you have nothing but contempt for kids’ rights, and that you think all evil acts by parents are the result of innocent misguided attempts to better their childrens’ lives. If you can’t respond with anything other than your usual hyperbolic exaggeration and ridicule, just shut up. Your input won’t be missed, I assure you. — Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
Response:
> >> This was a parent playing power games, with the help of some hired thugs, >> thinking that some pseudoscientific trappings would shield them all from >> the consequences of their actions. > Yes, that is that. This mean ass parent only adopted this child in the > hopes that one day they could watch the child die. > Parents kill children to win power struggles each and every day. Why is > this notion so difficult for you to grasp?
Yes, Eric. Since you are not a parent and I am I will let you in on a big secret. Us parents get together once a year in groups of thirty and kill a child between all of us. The stories of parents doing this on their own are only the ones who can not attend the yearly child killing conference. Adoptive parents have to kill three a year just to get full membership. We do this Eric as we know it upsets you and since we are parents and you are not we like to rub it in some. > Many adoptive parents have unreasonable expectations, and when they are > not met, become abusive. > — > Eric Michael Cordian 0+ > O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division > "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
– A Republican is a man who made his money; a Liberal is a man who inherited his; a Democrat is a barefoot Liberal in a cross country race; a Conservative is a Republican who has learned to read and write. Q: How can you tell if someone is a level headed hillbilly? A: They have tobacco juice running out of both sides of their mouth. Oh shit! I have my webpage sort of working now. Come take a look. http://www.netcommander.com/home/liberalminded/home.html Want to make your own alt ng? Check out this before going to alt.config. http://www.dw.net/~scottzf/hamish_mcsnetter/index.html and of course go to this ng for real help alt.how.to.create.a.newsgroup
Response:
> >> The psychiatric profession has demonstrated itself, in the treatment of >> children, to be nothing but whores to parents with open checkbooks. >> Anything a parent doesn’t like about a child, and wishes to have >> terrorized out of them, will be given a medical-sounding name, and some >> kind of "therapy" devised, which will involve restraining, hurting, >> drugging, bullying, or suffocating the child. > I think I understand your fear of the psychological community. Gave you a > diagnosis did they? > Now you’ve simply fallen back into your usual trolling pattern.
That was not a troll. Based on your extremist views, inability to grasp reality, and general close minded approach to all things I question your mental state. > If the adolescent mental health profession weren’t simply catering to > parents at the expense of childrens’ rights, parents wouldn’t be told that > the first step in winning any family disagreement is "to take your child > and get him diagnosed."
I do not know that that ever happens. Is this a description of your home life as I have never heard anyone else say this? > You can get any dependent minor "diagnosed." It’s like getting your car > painted these days. It’s a fee for service deal, that doesn’t require > that the patient have any organic disorder.
Are you one of those who only believes in organic problems? > And if the kid retaliates, all the news stories will say what he had been > "diagnosed" with or that he refused to take his medication, and iterate at > length the parents side of everything that is supposedly wrong with the > family, as if it had just been handed to the press on tablets by Moses > after a personal discussion with God.
Do you know of the principle of informed consent? Do you understand that the majority of mental health professionals would never treat a child simply because that is what a parent wanted. Their obligation would be to the client which is the child and not to the parents. >> This is the result of the political and religious right wing’s successful >> attempts to undermine the advances in childrens’ rights in this country >> during the 60’s and 70’s, when snakepit schools were shut down in droves, >> truancy and "running away" were decriminalized, and the public was sent >> the message that beatings were no longer some sort of religious sacrament. > Please explain then how you can say in another post that a minister got away with > just what you described as being taken away? > During the 80’s and 90’s, all the advances in kids’ rights were pretty > much reversed.
What planet do you post from? > Kids are now jailed for refusing to stay at home, or to go > to school,
and the past was different in what way? > and more and more egregious treatment of them is being > rationalized under the "parents’ rights" platform, as well as under such > smokescreens as "early intervention,"
so you don’t want children to be tested for vision, hearing, and learning problems as well as health concerns? > and sexual predator hysteria. > — > Eric Michael Cordian 0+ > O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division > "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
– A Republican is a man who made his money; a Liberal is a man who inherited his; a Democrat is a barefoot Liberal in a cross country race; a Conservative is a Republican who has learned to read and write. Q: How can you tell if someone is a level headed hillbilly? A: They have tobacco juice running out of both sides of their mouth. Oh shit! I have my webpage sort of working now. Come take a look. http://www.netcommander.com/home/liberalminded/home.html Want to make your own alt ng? Check out this before going to alt.config. http://www.dw.net/~scottzf/hamish_mcsnetter/index.html and of course go to this ng for real help alt.how.to.create.a.newsgroup
Response:
>> The psychiatric profession has demonstrated itself, in the treatment of > children, to be nothing but whores to parents with open checkbooks. > Anything a parent doesn’t like about a child, and wishes to have > terrorized out of them, will be given a medical-sounding name, and some > kind of "therapy" devised, which will involve restraining, hurting, > drugging, bullying, or suffocating the child. > I think I understand your fear of the psychological community. Gave you a > diagnosis did they?
Now you’ve simply fallen back into your usual trolling pattern. If the adolescent mental health profession weren’t simply catering to parents at the expense of childrens’ rights, parents wouldn’t be told that the first step in winning any family disagreement is "to take your child and get him diagnosed." You can get any dependent minor "diagnosed." It’s like getting your car painted these days. It’s a fee for service deal, that doesn’t require that the patient have any organic disorder. And if the kid retaliates, all the news stories will say what he had been "diagnosed" with or that he refused to take his medication, and iterate at length the parents side of everything that is supposedly wrong with the family, as if it had just been handed to the press on tablets by Moses after a personal discussion with God. > This is the result of the political and religious right wing’s successful > attempts to undermine the advances in childrens’ rights in this country > during the 60’s and 70’s, when snakepit schools were shut down in droves, > truancy and "running away" were decriminalized, and the public was sent > the message that beatings were no longer some sort of religious sacrament. > Please explain then how you can say in another post that a minister got away with > just what you described as being taken away?
During the 80’s and 90’s, all the advances in kids’ rights were pretty much reversed. Kids are now jailed for refusing to stay at home, or to go to school, and more and more egregious treatment of them is being rationalized under the "parents’ rights" platform, as well as under such smokescreens as "early intervention," and sexual predator hysteria. — Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
Response:
>> This was a parent playing power games, with the help of some hired thugs, > thinking that some pseudoscientific trappings would shield them all from > the consequences of their actions. > Yes, that is that. This mean ass parent only adopted this child in the > hopes that one day they could watch the child die.
Parents kill children to win power struggles each and every day. Why is this notion so difficult for you to grasp? Many adoptive parents have unreasonable expectations, and when they are not met, become abusive. — Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
Response:
> > No! This was about a parent going to extremes in hope of helping a child. > This was a parent playing power games, with the help of some hired thugs, > thinking that some pseudoscientific trappings would shield them all from > the consequences of their actions.
Yes, that is that. This mean ass parent only adopted this child in the hopes that one day they could watch the child die. > Apparently, a strategy that works, if your posts are any example. > — > Eric Michael Cordian 0+ > O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division > "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
– A Republican is a man who made his money; a Liberal is a man who inherited his; a Democrat is a barefoot Liberal in a cross country race; a Conservative is a Republican who has learned to read and write. Q: How can you tell if someone is a level headed hillbilly? A: They have tobacco juice running out of both sides of their mouth. Oh shit! I have my webpage sort of working now. Come take a look. http://www.netcommander.com/home/liberalminded/home.html Want to make your own alt ng? Check out this before going to alt.config. http://www.dw.net/~scottzf/hamish_mcsnetter/index.html and of course go to this ng for real help alt.how.to.create.a.newsgroup
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Right, and abused children have every right to be VERY cautious about >> trusting the next adult placed in power over them. > Just in case you are simply ignorant of this problem and not just being the > extremist as per usual. > http://search.dogpile.com/texis/search?q=unbonded+Children&geo=no&fs=web > "Bonding disorders" are just so much medical claptrap, designed to allow > coercive techniques to be used to force a child to please an adult the > child does not like. > The psychiatric profession has demonstrated itself, in the treatment of > children, to be nothing but whores to parents with open checkbooks. > Anything a parent doesn’t like about a child, and wishes to have > terrorized out of them, will be given a medical-sounding name, and some > kind of "therapy" devised, which will involve restraining, hurting, > drugging, bullying, or suffocating the child.
I think I understand your fear of the psychological community. Gave you a diagnosis did they? > This is the result of the political and religious right wing’s successful > attempts to undermine the advances in childrens’ rights in this country > during the 60’s and 70’s, when snakepit schools were shut down in droves, > truancy and "running away" were decriminalized, and the public was sent > the message that beatings were no longer some sort of religious sacrament.
Please explain then how you can say in another post that a minister got away with just what you described as being taken away? > You will not find that I support the treatment. > Just because the perps called it "treatment" doesn’t mean that is what it > was. Would you so easily buy into someone who referred to rape as "dating > with encouragment for shy women?"
I think this so called treatment needs to be banned but that is only my personal opinion. > and you keep dismissing there was a problem with the child that needed to be > addressed. > There is absolutely no credible evidence that this child had any problem > other than failing to please a demanding adoptive parent.
There is no credible evidence of anything to us dude as we are not privy to all that went on. You do personalize all this don’t you? > — > Eric Michael Cordian 0+ > O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division > "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
– A Republican is a man who made his money; a Liberal is a man who inherited his; a Democrat is a barefoot Liberal in a cross country race; a Conservative is a Republican who has learned to read and write. Q: How can you tell if someone is a level headed hillbilly? A: They have tobacco juice running out of both sides of their mouth. Oh shit! I have my webpage sort of working now. Come take a look. http://www.netcommander.com/home/liberalminded/home.html Want to make your own alt ng? Check out this before going to alt.config. http://www.dw.net/~scottzf/hamish_mcsnetter/index.html and of course go to this ng for real help alt.how.to.create.a.newsgroup
Response:
>> Right, and abused children have every right to be VERY cautious about > trusting the next adult placed in power over them. > Just in case you are simply ignorant of this problem and not just being the > extremist as per usual. > http://search.dogpile.com/texis/search?q=unbonded+Children&geo=no&fs=web
"Bonding disorders" are just so much medical claptrap, designed to allow coercive techniques to be used to force a child to please an adult the child does not like. The psychiatric profession has demonstrated itself, in the treatment of children, to be nothing but whores to parents with open checkbooks. Anything a parent doesn’t like about a child, and wishes to have terrorized out of them, will be given a medical-sounding name, and some kind of "therapy" devised, which will involve restraining, hurting, drugging, bullying, or suffocating the child. This is the result of the political and religious right wing’s successful attempts to undermine the advances in childrens’ rights in this country during the 60’s and 70’s, when snakepit schools were shut down in droves, truancy and "running away" were decriminalized, and the public was sent the message that beatings were no longer some sort of religious sacrament. > You will not find that I support the treatment.
Just because the perps called it "treatment" doesn’t mean that is what it was. Would you so easily buy into someone who referred to rape as "dating with encouragment for shy women?" > and you keep dismissing there was a problem with the child that needed to be > addressed.
There is absolutely no credible evidence that this child had any problem other than failing to please a demanding adoptive parent. — Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
Response:
> No! This was about a parent going to extremes in hope of helping a child.
This was a parent playing power games, with the help of some hired thugs, thinking that some pseudoscientific trappings would shield them all from the consequences of their actions. Apparently, a strategy that works, if your posts are any example. — Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
Response:
> > Maybe you should read this again dude. This was a child that was > adopted. Most likely parental rights were cut off because of severe > abuse. > Right, and abused children have every right to be VERY cautious about > trusting the next adult placed in power over them.
Just in case you are simply ignorant of this problem and not just being the extremist as per usual. http://search.dogpile.com/texis/search?q=unbonded+Children&geo=no&fs=web > That’s not a disease, > and it doesn’t need forced medical treatment, particularly medical > treatment that is nothing less than thinly veiled bullying.
You will not find that I support the treatment. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> An adoptive parent undertakes the responsibility to provide the child with > the necessities of life, which society owes all children until they reach > an age where they may support themselves. The child does not owe the > adoptive parent anything in return, and the adoptive parent has no right > to take the child out to be "fixed" just because they have gotten a child, > instead of a pet. > The child was in traditional treatment before any of this and my guess > is the treatment was going as fast as the parents wanted. They turned > to what I would view as non-traditional therapy in hopes of a quick cure > and death is what they got. > Right, the child wasn’t responding to the earlier bullying technique, so > they decided to rachet up the heat. > btw I think this rebirth stuff is one large load of shit. > Yet you fail to see how it fits into the larger "Child Abuse for Hire" > picture, and you keep making excuses for the parents and therapists, and > using medical-sounding words to explain their behavior.
and you keep dismissing there was a problem with the child that needed to be addressed. > — > Eric Michael Cordian 0+ > O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division > "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
– A Republican is a man who made his money; a Liberal is a man who inherited his; a Democrat is a barefoot Liberal in a cross country race; a Conservative is a Republican who has learned to read and write. Q: How can you tell if someone is a level headed hillbilly? A: They have tobacco juice running out of both sides of their mouth. Oh shit! I have my webpage sort of working now. Come take a look. http://www.netcommander.com/home/liberalminded/home.html Want to make your own alt ng? Check out this before going to alt.config. http://www.dw.net/~scottzf/hamish_mcsnetter/index.html and of course go to this ng for real help alt.how.to.create.a.newsgroup
Response:
> Take a look at "Whores of the Court" > The term child abuse has spawned an industry which is eager to get its hooks > into the parenting relationship, despite the fact that their success rate is no > better than chance.
Maybe you should read this again dude. This was a child that was adopted. Most likely parental rights were cut off because of severe abuse. The child was in traditional treatment before any of this and my guess is the treatment was going as fast as the parents wanted. They turned to what I would view as non-traditional therapy in hopes of a quick cure and death is what they got. Now this case actually supports the role of CPS as they should have intervened in this child’s life long before she was damaged in her natural parents home. When this child was adopted CPS should have made sure that the transition was smooth as it obviously was not and if they had continued intervention with the adoptive family my bet is the non-traditional therapist would never have been used. btw I think this rebirth stuff is one large load of shit. > We have accepted intrusion into the family system on a scale unknown in human > history. And we have done this intrusion without appreciating the unintended > consequences. > Http://www.CPSWatch.com
– A Republican is a man who made his money; a Liberal is a man who inherited his; a Democrat is a barefoot Liberal in a cross country race; a Conservative is a Republican who has learned to read and write. Q: How can you tell if someone is a level headed hillbilly? A: They have tobacco juice running out of both sides of their mouth. Oh shit! I have my webpage sort of working now. Come take a look. http://www.netcommander.com/home/liberalminded/home.html Want to make your own alt ng? Check out this before going to alt.config. http://www.dw.net/~scottzf/hamish_mcsnetter/index.html and of course go to this ng for real help alt.how.to.create.a.newsgroup
Response:
> Maybe you should read this again dude. This was a child that was > adopted. Most likely parental rights were cut off because of severe > abuse.
Right, and abused children have every right to be VERY cautious about trusting the next adult placed in power over them. That’s not a disease, and it doesn’t need forced medical treatment, particularly medical treatment that is nothing less than thinly veiled bullying. An adoptive parent undertakes the responsibility to provide the child with the necessities of life, which society owes all children until they reach an age where they may support themselves. The child does not owe the adoptive parent anything in return, and the adoptive parent has no right to take the child out to be "fixed" just because they have gotten a child, instead of a pet. > The child was in traditional treatment before any of this and my guess > is the treatment was going as fast as the parents wanted. They turned > to what I would view as non-traditional therapy in hopes of a quick cure > and death is what they got.
Right, the child wasn’t responding to the earlier bullying technique, so they decided to rachet up the heat. > btw I think this rebirth stuff is one large load of shit.
Yet you fail to see how it fits into the larger "Child Abuse for Hire" picture, and you keep making excuses for the parents and therapists, and using medical-sounding words to explain their behavior. — Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
Response:
> Deliberate murder?
Deliberate and reckless acts which a reasonable person would understand places someone at risk of serious injury or death qualify as murder in most states if a death does in fact result. If someone had killed an adult in this fashion, it most certainly would be murder. When kids are killed, people are charged with "abuse", which usually carries a lesser sentence than a similar crime involving an adult victim. — Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
Response:
> The treatment this child got was wrong but you seem to miss there are legit > treatments for this disorder.
It wasn’t treatment, it was a vicious assault. And not liking someone who later demonstrated themselves to have contempt for your personal boundaries to the point of killing you is hardly a "disorder." This was about an adoptive parent trying to force an adoptive child to please the parent, and about quack therapists who took money to torture the child into compliance, using a bunch of nonsense to medicalize using suffocation as punishment. Anyone with the least understanding of Soviet-style "medicalization of dissent" will not be fooled by this clown act. All these people deserve life sentences as an example to other parents and therapists who think they can get away with such antics. — Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
Response:
> > GOLDEN (Reuters) – A nurse whose 10-year-old adopted daughter died after > a psychotherapy session in which she was bound in a sheet until she > suffocated will face felony child abuse charges, a judge ruled on > Wednesday. > Of course it remains to be seen whether a jury of parents who think they > have a right to do anything they feel like to their kids will return a > conviction on any serious charge.
You talk all the time about people being children biased and yet it is ok for you to paint all parents with your broad brush. > The girl had been in traditional therapy, because she could not bond > with her mother. > Sometimes children like adoptive parents. Other times they don’t. It’s > the child’s choice, and medicalizing it with fancy language, and acting > like the adoptive parent is owed selfish emotional gratification, even if > the price is terrorizing the child to the point of death, is > weasel-wording of the highest order.
You might have a valid stand there if you had not ignored the fact that not being able to bond is a recognizable problem with some children and adults and that it is something that requires treatment. > Despite all the therapy buzzwords being tossed about here, what we have is > just another manifestation of the "Child Abuse for Hire" industry, where > parents with open checkbooks are eagerly courted by fringe "therapists," > who use buzzword-laden misdirection to lend a scientific air to > "treatments" which generally involve nothing more than clever ways of > cutting off a kid’s air supply. > This was nothing less than a deliberate murder by torture, and it should > be prosecuted and punished as such.
The treatment this child got was wrong but you seem to miss there are legit treatments for this disorder. > — > Eric Michael Cordian 0+ > O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division > "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
– A Republican is a man who made his money; a Liberal is a man who inherited his; a Democrat is a barefoot Liberal in a cross country race; a Conservative is a Republican who has learned to read and write. Q: How can you tell if someone is a level headed hillbilly? A: They have tobacco juice running out of both sides of their mouth. Oh shit! I have my webpage sort of working now. Come take a look. http://www.netcommander.com/home/liberalminded/home.html Want to make your own alt ng? Check out this before going to alt.config. http://www.dw.net/~scottzf/hamish_mcsnetter/index.html and of course go to this ng for real help alt.how.to.create.a.newsgroup
Response:
GOLDEN (Reuters) – A nurse whose 10-year-old adopted daughter died after a psychotherapy session in which she was bound in a sheet until she suffocated will face felony child abuse charges, a judge ruled on Wednesday. Jeane Newmaker, 46, of Durham, North Carolina will be arraigned Oct. 30 on one count of negligent child abuse resulting in death. Candace Newmaker died April 18 at the home of therapist Connell Watkins, 53, in the mountain community of Evergreen, west of Denver. Prosecutors allege Jeane Newmaker paid Watkins $7,000 to cure the girl’s "reactive attachment disorder" and was present at the fatal session. The girl had been in traditional therapy, because she could not bond with her mother. When that did not work the mother turned to Watkins for help on what experts say is a very difficult problem to treat. Prosecutors allege the girl stopped breathing after being wrapped in flannel sheet, surrounded by pillows and forced to work her way through the tightly wound covers to simulate birth. During the 70-minute videotaped session of the procedure known as "rebirthing," Watkins and three of her employees can be seen and heard on the tape restraining the girl and ignoring her pleas that she could not breathe, according to prosecutors. The judge ordered the videotape sealed. Jeane Newmaker did not appear at Wednesday’s hearing before Jefferson County Judge Charles Hoppin, but through her attorney Pamela Mackey, waived her right to a preliminary hearing on the charges. Watkins and her three employees — Julie Ponder, 40, Brita St. Clair, 41, and Jack McDaniel, 47 — have been charged with reckless child abuse resulting in death, a more serious offense than the charge Newmaker faces. — A Republican is a man who made his money; a Liberal is a man who inherited his; a Democrat is a barefoot Liberal in a cross country race; a Conservative is a Republican who has learned to read and write. Q: How can you tell if someone is a level headed hillbilly? A: They have tobacco juice running out of both sides of their mouth. Oh shit! I have my webpage sort of working now. Come take a look. http://www.netcommander.com/home/liberalminded/home.html Want to make your own alt ng? Check out this before going to alt.config. http://www.dw.net/~scottzf/hamish_mcsnetter/index.html and of course go to this ng for real help alt.how.to.create.a.newsgroup
Response:
> GOLDEN (Reuters) – A nurse whose 10-year-old adopted daughter died after > a psychotherapy session in which she was bound in a sheet until she > suffocated will face felony child abuse charges, a judge ruled on > Wednesday.
Of course it remains to be seen whether a jury of parents who think they have a right to do anything they feel like to their kids will return a conviction on any serious charge. > The girl had been in traditional therapy, because she could not bond > with her mother.
Sometimes children like adoptive parents. Other times they don’t. It’s the child’s choice, and medicalizing it with fancy language, and acting like the adoptive parent is owed selfish emotional gratification, even if the price is terrorizing the child to the point of death, is weasel-wording of the highest order. Despite all the therapy buzzwords being tossed about here, what we have is just another manifestation of the "Child Abuse for Hire" industry, where parents with open checkbooks are eagerly courted by fringe "therapists," who use buzzword-laden misdirection to lend a scientific air to "treatments" which generally involve nothing more than clever ways of cutting off a kid’s air supply. This was nothing less than a deliberate murder by torture, and it should be prosecuted and punished as such. — Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> GOLDEN (Reuters) – A nurse whose 10-year-old adopted daughter died after > a psychotherapy session in which she was bound in a sheet until she > suffocated will face felony child abuse charges, a judge ruled on > Wednesday. > Of course it remains to be seen whether a jury of parents who think they > have a right to do anything they feel like to their kids will return a > conviction on any serious charge. > The girl had been in traditional therapy, because she could not bond > with her mother. > Sometimes children like adoptive parents. Other times they don’t. It’s > the child’s choice, and medicalizing it with fancy language, and acting > like the adoptive parent is owed selfish emotional gratification, even if > the price is terrorizing the child to the point of death, is > weasel-wording of the highest order. > Despite all the therapy buzzwords being tossed about here, what we have is > just another manifestation of the "Child Abuse for Hire" industry, where > parents with open checkbooks are eagerly courted by fringe "therapists," > who use buzzword-laden misdirection to lend a scientific air to > "treatments" which generally involve nothing more than clever ways of > cutting off a kid’s air supply. > This was nothing less than a deliberate murder by torture, and it should > be prosecuted and punished as such.
Deliberate murder? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Eric Michael Cordian 0+ > O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division > "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
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