Question:
: I have a big problem with my 3 year. he has down syndrome[which is not the : problem],but he pulls hair really hard and won’t let go,bites that he draws : blood,scratches and pinches that leave black and blue marks. Ouch. That sounds painful. I do not advocate any domestic arrangement where someone is being intentionally hurt. There is no situation that excuses domestic abuse. Not parents on children, not children on parents. Not even a dog that bites the hand that feeds it. Although my heart goes out to your disabled son, I cannot say that I believe he has a place under your roof if he’s abusive. I have tried : tugging at his hair but he thanks its a game so i stopped. as far as the : other stuff i couldn’t do that to him. i really don’t think that he : understands the word no but other times he asks like he does. He only says : about 7 words that can really be understood to others. I think alot of our : problem is commucation but the angry or whatever it is is really getting : out of hand really now that he is getting stronger. I have talked to : theorpist about this and i try the stuff but hes just determained that that : is what he wants to do and he does it. I dont want to put him or drugs to : slow him down but I dont know what else to do . PLEASE HELP!!!!!!! : thank you!!!!!
Response:
>: I have a big problem with my 3 year. he has down syndrome[which is not the >: problem],but he pulls hair really hard and won’t let go,bites that he draws >: blood,scratches and pinches that leave black and blue marks. > Ouch. That sounds painful. I do not advocate any domestic arrangement >where someone is being intentionally hurt. There is no situation that >excuses domestic abuse. Not parents on children, not children on parents. >Not even a dog that bites the hand that feeds it. > Although my heart goes out to your disabled son, I cannot say that I >believe he has a place under your roof if he’s abusive.
Are you serious? We’re talking about a 3-year-old, not a 13-year-old – with down syndrome! That’s a pretty serious mental handicap. I’m no expert, but I’d readily believe that the development of a DS child is far, far different from that of a non-DS child. What roof would you put him under? Mike — From Seattle, WA – Seahawks, cinema, science and more at http://kohary.simplenet.com Seahawks: http://kohary.simplenet.com/hawks.htm Cinema: http://kohary.simplenet.com/movies.htm Science: http://kohary.simplenet.com/science.htm
Response:
I have a big problem with my 3 year. he has down syndrome[which is not the problem],but he pulls hair really hard and won’t let go,bites that he draws blood,scratches and pinches that leave black and blue marks. I have tried tugging at his hair but he thanks its a game so i stopped. as far as the other stuff i couldn’t do that to him. i really don’t think that he understands the word no but other times he asks like he does. He only says about 7 words that can really be understood to others. I think alot of our problem is commucation but the angry or whatever it is is really getting out of hand really now that he is getting stronger. I have talked to theorpist about this and i try the stuff but hes just determained that that is what he wants to do and he does it. I dont want to put him or drugs to slow him down but I dont know what else to do . PLEASE HELP!!!!!!! thank you!!!!!
Response:
I would ask your therapist for the names of support groups in the area for parents of challenged children, if you have not already done this. There is nothing like sharing with other parents your iaaues and getting suggestions that have worked for them. For the most part, this sounds like behavior many kids go through, though the extent of the biting, pinching, etc. may vary. It is important that you are consistent in whatever you do. Stick to one response for awhile. What does your son hate the most: being alone in his room? Then tell him no and put him in his room for five minutes. Perhaps it is a toy the he cherishes: tell him no and take the toy from him. It is very important that he associate the bad behvior with the word no and athe action you are taking. This will take several tries and you may get frustrated, but at some point he will realize that something "bad" happens to him if he bites pinches, etc. The key is to pick the same punishment for every infraction. And use it repeatedly. Good luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I have a big problem with my 3 year. he has down syndrome[which is not the > problem],but he pulls hair really hard and won’t let go,bites that he draws > blood,scratches and pinches that leave black and blue marks. I have tried > tugging at his hair but he thanks its a game so i stopped. as far as the > other stuff i couldn’t do that to him. i really don’t think that he > understands the word no but other times he asks like he does. He only says > about 7 words that can really be understood to others. I think alot of our > problem is commucation but the angry or whatever it is is really getting > out of hand really now that he is getting stronger. I have talked to > theorpist about this and i try the stuff but hes just determained that that > is what he wants to do and he does it. I dont want to put him or drugs to > slow him down but I dont know what else to do . PLEASE HELP!!!!!!! > thank you!!!!!
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The kid is retarded not psychotic — and three years old. Raising > this child is NOT appreciably different than any other child. I have > worked with dozens of these kids and they can grow up to be just > as pleasant to have around as any other kid. There is nothing in > being mentally slow that means the child will be violent — in fact > Down kids are generally pretty mellow — less violent than the average > little boy. > Hamilton, > i must disagree with you on one point. While this young boy certainly can > grow to be a productive individual within his own abilies, and does not NEED > to be violent, there is a definite difference in the discipline of a downs > child compared to another child. > If I remember correclty his mother stated that he his 3+ years old and only > speaks about 7 words. This combined with his actions indicate to me a rather > severe dregree of retardation. This means to me that any discipline needs to > be very simple, very immediate, and very concrete (ie repeated exactly the > same way every time). Even though he may be three, discipline needs to be > presented in the same way you way a 4-6 months old who is beginnnig to > roll/crawl and is getting into things that are not safe. > Lesa
It is possible to discipline an 18 month old or a 12 month old — a 3 year old Down child with 7 words is functioning like a much younger child. They respond to similar discipline — it just takes longer and one has to adjust expectations to development and not age. I have worked with lots of these kids and all it takes is patience and consistent discpline — it takes longer with a retarded child than a normal child but they DO have the ‘cognitive’ ability [as they mature] to understand consequences etc etc — At age 3 you disciline hitting behavior like you would in a 15 month old [in fact this mother's post described behavior much like that that was troubling several other posters who were dealing with the problem in 15-18 month old toddlers] You physically intervene e.g. hold hands, redirect, say no — you remove yourself from the child if you are the target and isolate him — if he misuses a toy violently, that toy disappears. Like with ‘any toddler you try to anticipate and distract — before the behavior occurs if you can. It ain’t rocket science and the mother should not feel that her son’s disability reduces his possibilities of being a great kid to have around. Of course she also needs the support of others dealing with similar situations and she probably could benefit from some parenting instruction that heavily emphasizes behavioral techniques. k
Response:
Donna, I dont think this child is functioning at a high enough level to engage in attention seeking behaviors–remember Mom said he only uses about 7 words. I htink that he’s using this more as a reaction to someething which is upsetting him that he is unable to understand, express. I also don’t think that he’d be acaplce of understand as coplex a concept as "I can’t play with you if you don’t behave nicely." Using positive reinforcement during appropriate behavior accompianied with redirection/education technigues should work. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Here’s my advice: Remember that kids do things (or continue to do things) > because they like the consequences of the behavior. Conversely, they stop > doing things because they don’t like the consequences. At 3, one of the > most important things that this child REALLY wants is YOUR attention. So > you need to arrange things so that he DOESN’T get your attention for > hitting, etc. The way to do this is VERY simple. When he hits you, just > get up and leave. Don’t discuss it, just go. You can tell him something > simple, like "I don’t play with children who act like that.", but just tell > him once, not over and over. Don’t look at him (that’s attention and it’s > rewarding). You don’t even need to get angry. Just act like it’s a law of > nature (it is): people do not want to be around you when you act like > that. > There. Simple advice. It will work for anyone. > Donna Kinney
Response:
> The kid is retarded not psychotic — and three years old. Raising > this child is NOT appreciably different than any other child. I have > worked with dozens of these kids and they can grow up to be just > as pleasant to have around as any other kid. There is nothing in > being mentally slow that means the child will be violent — in fact > Down kids are generally pretty mellow — less violent than the average > little boy.
Hamilton, i must disagree with you on one point. While this young boy certainly can grow to be a productive individual within his own abilies, and does not NEED to be violent, there is a definite difference in the discipline of a downs child compared to another child. If I remember correclty his mother stated that he his 3+ years old and only speaks about 7 words. This combined with his actions indicate to me a rather severe dregree of retardation. This means to me that any discipline needs to be very simple, very immediate, and very concrete (ie repeated exactly the same way every time). Even though he may be three, discipline needs to be presented in the same way you way a 4-6 months old who is beginnnig to roll/crawl and is getting into things that are not safe. Lesa
Response:
> : That’s a pretty serious mental handicap. I’m no expert, but > : I’d readily believe that the development of a DS child is far, far different > : from that of a non-DS child.
Mike was right, Elaine, you can’t treat this child as a "normal" child. There are many special considerations which need to be taken into account. Just one of which is the fact that many DS kids will behave in this way. They do not have the cgonitive funcitoning to understand simple things such as heat, cold, and pain; as well as not having the langauge functioning to explain their feelings to others. Due to this they use pinching, grabbing, biting, screaming, etc to express themsleves. > As I said, exactly WHAT is their alternative? Evidently, the boy’s > mother is not an expert either. She’s just a nice person who wants to do > her duty by her handicapped son. He’s hurting her, and that’s wrong. > What did you think I was going to be able to do? Wave a wand and fix the > child?
Mike simply pointed out–again very correctly–that time-out is not an appropriate disciplinary action for a DS child. I don’t see that you have any developmetnally appropratie response, so just lay off him. Lesa My apologies to everyone else for waht my seem to be a harsh response. Having a sister with profound downs syndrome, and having worked in this area for the last 14 years, I get a little touchy with this type of thing.
Response:
> >: Are you serious? We’re talking about a 3-year-old, not a 13-year-old – > with >: down syndrome! > It’s really an easy question, just a difficult situation. I didn’t catch >YOUR recommendation? > I don’t have one; I have no experience with down syndrome.
Well, I have tons of experience with LOTS of kids with Down’s, and this whole discussion is ridiculous and not at all helpful to this mom. Down’s is usually a VERY minor handicap. The children are completely within normal ranges on most behavior. This mom needs the same advice that you would give to any other first-time mom. Here’s my advice: Remember that kids do things (or continue to do things) because they like the consequences of the behavior. Conversely, they stop doing things because they don’t like the consequences. At 3, one of the most important things that this child REALLY wants is YOUR attention. So you need to arrange things so that he DOESN’T get your attention for hitting, etc. The way to do this is VERY simple. When he hits you, just get up and leave. Don’t discuss it, just go. You can tell him something simple, like "I don’t play with children who act like that.", but just tell him once, not over and over. Don’t look at him (that’s attention and it’s rewarding). You don’t even need to get angry. Just act like it’s a law of nature (it is): people do not want to be around you when you act like that. There. Simple advice. It will work for anyone. Donna Kinney
Response:
Stacy, I know it’s been some time since your original post, but I’ve been busy for the last few days & have been catching up. Plese DO NOT ut your son into any tiype of time out or remove anything from him. He does not have the cognitive skills to relate the two events. When he hurts himself in the ways you’ve mentioned simply hold his hands– firmly yet gently–on his lap and in a clear unemotional voice tell him "quiet hands". Don’t discuss. Don’t mention what the actions were that he should not do. Simply state "quiet hands". It may take hunddreds or even thousands of times; you may be spending hours in this posiiton; it may seem like all you say to him is "quiet hands" but evnetually it will help. In addition, any time he is not doing these things smile very largley and with your entire body and tell him in a totally syruppy sweet voice how much you like hos he’s sitting, how much you like how he’s playing, how much you like his quiet hands–and be sure to give him lots of hugs and kisses. I know that this sounds very basic, and much too simple to work, but trust me it does. I work w/ autistic, delayed, downs, etc kids and have used this method many times with a great deal of success. Good luck! Lesa > tell him no and put > him in his room for five minutes.
Response:
Do you have a place where you can separate from him when he misbehaves. I’m thinking in terms of a playyard or such. He may be too big for one of those now, but when my kids were little, we put them in "time-out" in their playpen or crib when they did not behave. Now they are old enough to sit on the stairs or a chair in another room if they need some time out. It has really helped us to curb behaviors that we deem unacceptable. I encourage you to set up some space to do this and set a short time limit (1-3 minutes) to take hima away from his behavior. Then when it is over, engage him in some activity that you and he enjoy. If he starts up again, go through the whole routine. He should eventually "get it"–that it is his behavior that makes you separate him from you and his fun. I imagine it is really frustrating to you and him to not be able to communicate in words and it escalates the behaviors, like happens to all children as they become little people with needs that they can’t get into words (ie, "the terrible twos"). Good luck with this. -Suzi in Chapel Hill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I have a big problem with my 3 year. he has down syndrome[which is not the >problem],but he pulls hair really hard and won’t let go,bites that he draws >blood,scratches and pinches that leave black and blue marks. I have tried >tugging at his hair but he thanks its a game so i stopped. as far as the >other stuff i couldn’t do that to him. i really don’t think that he >understands the word no but other times he asks like he does. He only says >about 7 words that can really be understood to others. I think alot of our >problem is commucation but the angry or whatever it is is really getting >out of hand really now that he is getting stronger. I have talked to >theorpist about this and i try the stuff but hes just determained that that >is what he wants to do and he does it. I dont want to put him or drugs to >slow him down but I dont know what else to do . PLEASE HELP!!!!!!! > thank you!!!!!
Response:
To the orignal poster: I think the first thing to do is ignore anyone who suggests that you separate yourself from your 3 year old, just my opinion! Secondly, you mentioned that communication is an issue. Is he involved in any early intervention programs? If so, are they working with alternitive methods of communication with him. As an interpreter, sign language jumps into my mind immediately. I know several adults with d.s. that sign. Granted not with the fluidity of a deaf person, but enough, so you would understand his needs. I think that the communication issue needs to be addressed. I don’t know where you are located, but 1/2 my family works with d.s. kids and I would be willing to give you any resourses possible. The best of luck! Smiles, Maria
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > : Are you serious? We’re talking about a 3-year-old, not a 13-year-old – with > : down syndrome! > It’s really an easy question, just a difficult situation. I didn’t catch > YOUR recommendation? My view is that no situation justifies domestic > violence. > : That’s a pretty serious mental handicap. I’m no expert, but > : I’d readily believe that the development of a DS child is far, far different > : from that of a non-DS child. > Indeed. In fact, if the child did not have this disability, my > recommendation might have been different. > : What roof would you put him under? > Geeze, Mike. That’s an attempt to gently suggest that the parents give > up custody of the child. > As I said, exactly WHAT is their alternative? Evidently, the boy’s > mother is not an expert either. She’s just a nice person who wants to do > her duty by her handicapped son. He’s hurting her, and that’s wrong. > What did you think I was going to be able to do? Wave a wand and fix the > child?
The kid is retarded not psychotic — and three years old. Raising this child is NOT appreciably different than any other child. I have worked with dozens of these kids and they can grow up to be just as pleasant to have around as any other kid. There is nothing in being mentally slow that means the child will be violent — in fact Down kids are generally pretty mellow — less violent than the average little boy. All you have to do is raise them. Exactly to whom should one give up custody? If you have ever seen kids warehoused as I have, that wouldn’t be your first choice for a toddler. Most adolescent do fine at home also — obviously one who has not been well raised or who is disturbed would present different problems than a 3 year old.
Response:
>: Are you serious? We’re talking about a 3-year-old, not a 13-year-old – with >: down syndrome! > It’s really an easy question, just a difficult situation. I didn’t catch >YOUR recommendation?
I don’t have one; I have no experience with down syndrome. > My view is that no situation justifies domestic >violence.
I would hardly call this "domestic violence", precisely because the "offender" is mentally deficient, and is so young. I doubt a 3-year-old, even a completely healthy one, can form the intent to commit "domestic violence". >: What roof would you put him under? > Geeze, Mike. That’s an attempt to gently suggest that the parents give >up custody of the child.
Well, what were you suggesting? > As I said, exactly WHAT is their alternative?
How about teaching the boy not to pull hair or bite? Down syndrome, as I understand it, does not prevent learning to a certain level, it simply makes it much harder. Taking him out of the home would hardly do him any good that I can see, and might just make things worse. Mike — From Seattle, WA – Seahawks, cinema, science and more at http://kohary.simplenet.com Seahawks: http://kohary.simplenet.com/hawks.htm Cinema: http://kohary.simplenet.com/movies.htm Science: http://kohary.simplenet.com/science.htm
Response:
For goodness sake Elaine, what are you on? I would guess that these kind of behaviours are common enough with 3 year olds – this isn’t abuse – it’s just a kid’s behaviour at the moment. Kids go through phases. For the original poster’s benefit (Elaine, you can stop reading now) my son went through a hitting phase at about 3 years old. He was hitting and shoving other kids. Nothing I did made him want to stop, but what did stop him was an 11 year old girl slapped him after he slapped her. This is a girl he was around a lot (his childminder’s daughter) and she just reacted. It wouldn’t be right coming from an adult – don’t get me wrong – I don’t think you should hit him or bite him back. It was just such a natural reaction that he suddenly stopped. I don’t think this could ever work coming from an adult, or maybe even from a child the same age. I think I was just lucky that an innocent young girl that he admired reacted so naturally to make him realise what he was doing. He’s now 4 and a half and hasn’t really hit since, other than rough-house type playing, when both kids are equal participants. I guess what I’m saying is that it is probably just a phase and he’ll come out of it at some point. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Ouch. That sounds painful. I do not advocate any domestic arrangement >where someone is being intentionally hurt. There is no situation that >excuses domestic abuse. Not parents on children, not children on parents. >Not even a dog that bites the hand that feeds it. > Although my heart goes out to your disabled son, I cannot say that I >believe he has a place under your roof if he’s abusive.
Response:
: Are you serious? We’re talking about a 3-year-old, not a 13-year-old – with : down syndrome! It’s really an easy question, just a difficult situation. I didn’t catch YOUR recommendation? My view is that no situation justifies domestic violence. : That’s a pretty serious mental handicap. I’m no expert, but : I’d readily believe that the development of a DS child is far, far different : from that of a non-DS child. Indeed. In fact, if the child did not have this disability, my recommendation might have been different. : What roof would you put him under? Geeze, Mike. That’s an attempt to gently suggest that the parents give up custody of the child. As I said, exactly WHAT is their alternative? Evidently, the boy’s mother is not an expert either. She’s just a nice person who wants to do her duty by her handicapped son. He’s hurting her, and that’s wrong. What did you think I was going to be able to do? Wave a wand and fix the child?
Response:
> : I have a big problem with my 3 year. he has down syndrome[which is not the > : problem],but he pulls hair really hard and won’t let go,bites that he draws > : blood,scratches and pinches that leave black and blue marks. > Ouch. That sounds painful. I do not advocate any domestic arrangement > where someone is being intentionally hurt. There is no situation that > excuses domestic abuse. Not parents on children, not children on parents. > Not even a dog that bites the hand that feeds it. > Although my heart goes out to your disabled son, I cannot say that I > believe he has a place under your roof if he’s abusive.
Oh for heavens sake. The kid is 3 years old. Would you also suggest throwing out a ‘normal’ three year old? Or labeing a 6 m onth old nursing baby who bites mom, abusive? Kids need to be raised — so when they do very normal things like biting, pulling hair or hitting, they need to be disciplined. A full grown teen who is abusive and mentally disturbed may be a candidate for care outside the home – whether retarded or not — but a three year old is simply in need of parental guidance. Raising a toddler with Down syndrome is not terribly different from raising any other toddler. k
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