Pure Parents

Question:

>You’re so right Glen – let’s all just throw in the towel.

Cripes, man — haven’t you thrown enough trash into this newsgroup, already?  Now you want to litter it with towels as well? Litterbug! — Do not underestimate your abilities.  That is your boss’s job. It is your job to find ways around your boss’s roadblocks.

Response:

Thanks Jennifer.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Don’t let the turkeys get you down > Jennifer > You’re so right Glen – let’s all just throw in the towel. > > >Hey all.. > > >First – I am against the act and distribution of child pornography > > >anywhere, whether it be on the net or other places. I have done quite > > >a bit of investigation into this topic, and provide some links for > > >online reporting of sites – you report it, the organisation tries to > > >get it removed. > > >However.. hiding it by not allowing certain news servers to carry it – > > >or pretending that removing that ONE offending thing will stop it all > > >together – does not help in any way. > > <snip> > > Well thought out. > > One thing that you overlooked is that there are many newsfeeds > > and ISPs that are based in *other* countries (doncha just love > > the anarchy of the net?) over which the FBI has little or no > > control. > > Another item to consider is that a good portion of the child porn > > out there was made *years* ago and there aren’t really any adults > > to convict for it. > > — > > Do not underestimate your abilities.  That is your boss’s job. > > It is your job to find ways around your boss’s roadblocks.

Response:

You’re so right Glen – let’s all just throw in the towel.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hey all.. >First – I am against the act and distribution of child pornography >anywhere, whether it be on the net or other places. I have done quite >a bit of investigation into this topic, and provide some links for >online reporting of sites – you report it, the organisation tries to >get it removed. >However.. hiding it by not allowing certain news servers to carry it – >or pretending that removing that ONE offending thing will stop it all >together – does not help in any way. > <snip> > Well thought out. > One thing that you overlooked is that there are many newsfeeds > and ISPs that are based in *other* countries (doncha just love > the anarchy of the net?) over which the FBI has little or no > control. > Another item to consider is that a good portion of the child porn > out there was made *years* ago and there aren’t really any adults > to convict for it. > — > Do not underestimate your abilities.  That is your boss’s job. > It is your job to find ways around your boss’s roadblocks.

Response:

Don’t let the turkeys get you down Jennifer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > You’re so right Glen – let’s all just throw in the towel. > >Hey all.. > >First – I am against the act and distribution of child pornography > >anywhere, whether it be on the net or other places. I have done quite > >a bit of investigation into this topic, and provide some links for > >online reporting of sites – you report it, the organisation tries to > >get it removed. > >However.. hiding it by not allowing certain news servers to carry it – > >or pretending that removing that ONE offending thing will stop it all > >together – does not help in any way. > <snip> > Well thought out. > One thing that you overlooked is that there are many newsfeeds > and ISPs that are based in *other* countries (doncha just love > the anarchy of the net?) over which the FBI has little or no > control. > Another item to consider is that a good portion of the child porn > out there was made *years* ago and there aren’t really any adults > to convict for it. > — > Do not underestimate your abilities.  That is your boss’s job. > It is your job to find ways around your boss’s roadblocks.

Response:

I know — it’s bad form to not snip the parts of a post that one is not replying to.  I appologize. But I gotta say that I appreciate both what Mel said and the way that she said it, so I hate to snip a single thing. Glen (I’m gonna get my "me, too" AOL account any day, now) Appleby – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Perhaps before stirring up a "shit" storm, you could do a bit of >research – after all, you *are* on the net – and try reading what some >of those organisations have to say about it. You would then find out >exactly where you *can* report it – most of those organisations have >an online reporting service. >I am not suggesting you should keep quiet, I am suggesting that you >take the time to do a bit of research and go about things in a better >way than stirring up a shit storm. If you do find a site on the web >that promotes child sodomy, or lolitas, or a whole host of other >things, in the future, try the link below to report it. >So now that you all have reported it to the authorities and got it >removed from your news servers, you might want to consider this. >alt.binaries.pictures.asparagus >Doesn’t exactly scream Child Porn In Here, now does it.. so how do the >pedophiles and other assorted people know where to look? How can you >stop them starting a *new* newsgroup in two days time, perhaps >alt.binaries.pictures.cereal? Are you going to monitor new newsgroups >until you find them? What if they decide to use an older newsgroup >which has been abandoned? Are you going to look through every single >one of 56,000 newsgroups to find out where they are trading their porn >now? No, you wont.. but us volunteers and possibly law enforcement >will have to. >So now that you have done your one good act for the year, you can piss >off and leave the hard work for the rest of us.. and thanks for doing >your bit to make it just that little bit harder for us. >Might I also add, that in a shit storm, it sticks to anyone.. not just >the pedophiles. >Shit sticks, and if you are reporting it to your local police or FBI, >they are going to wonder if YOU now have those images on YOUR hard >drive. At least if you were a registered volunteer with an >organisation, you have some chance of proving *why* you have found >these images. Imagine how much fun that would be.. you, a responsible >parent, being prosecuted by some agency because YOU were trying to do >the right thing – and believe me it has happened before. >Your action *was* a waste of time.. do you seriously think nobody in >law enforcement knew about asparagus? Its been reported over and over, >and left there to help catch people..

– Do not underestimate your abilities.  That is your boss’s job. It is your job to find ways around your boss’s roadblocks.

Response:

Well like I said – why do I need to keep repeating myself? – if they deem it best to leave it then they will – so be it… So far, incidentally, I don’t think the channel has been removed from any news server and maybe it is because that’s what the FBI wants – but like I said several times now – that is fine if they deem its existence a better tool for tracking the perpetraitors. I’m not too worried about being prosecuted by the FBI since I reported it to them and the police and abuse.net and my ISP. If I wanted to look at this site for my own purposes then ummm WHY WOULD I HAVE REPORTED IT??? Frankly I think it is you who are beggining to get a little presumptuos and self-righteous. I’m sorry if you think the only good that can be done in this area is by going through the channels that you think I should. I will have to respectfully agree to disagree with you. p.s. I did link to your provided site and report it there too. Did you?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I hear you Mel and maybe I will join an organization, but I don’t believe >that you have to do that in order to do some good. If  I were to voulanteer >my time at every organization I believed in I would have no time to earn a >living for my family. I believe that if a parent, or anybody for that >matter, is outraged by what they see especially if it is illegal activity >they should contact the local FBI or enforcement officials. >Organizations are driven by the collective will of the people and that will >has to be made known or else it is impotent. >I think peoples voices should be heard – always. >Your post implies that if a parent (such as myself) randomly stumbles across >a site that promotes child sodomy, he should just keep quiet unless he is >prepared to set aside a block of his time to voulanteer at the local >Anti-Child Porn office or whatever, because any other action is just a waste >of time. I don’t think so. I’ll take my chances and stir up the shit storm >when I can. > Perhaps before stirring up a "shit" storm, you could do a bit of > research – after all, you *are* on the net – and try reading what some > of those organisations have to say about it. You would then find out > exactly where you *can* report it – most of those organisations have > an online reporting service. > I am not suggesting you should keep quiet, I am suggesting that you > take the time to do a bit of research and go about things in a better > way than stirring up a shit storm. If you do find a site on the web > that promotes child sodomy, or lolitas, or a whole host of other > things, in the future, try the link below to report it. > So now that you all have reported it to the authorities and got it > removed from your news servers, you might want to consider this. > alt.binaries.pictures.asparagus > Doesn’t exactly scream Child Porn In Here, now does it.. so how do the > pedophiles and other assorted people know where to look? How can you > stop them starting a *new* newsgroup in two days time, perhaps > alt.binaries.pictures.cereal? Are you going to monitor new newsgroups > until you find them? What if they decide to use an older newsgroup > which has been abandoned? Are you going to look through every single > one of 56,000 newsgroups to find out where they are trading their porn > now? No, you wont.. but us volunteers and possibly law enforcement > will have to. > So now that you have done your one good act for the year, you can piss > off and leave the hard work for the rest of us.. and thanks for doing > your bit to make it just that little bit harder for us. > Might I also add, that in a shit storm, it sticks to anyone.. not just > the pedophiles. > Shit sticks, and if you are reporting it to your local police or FBI, > they are going to wonder if YOU now have those images on YOUR hard > drive. At least if you were a registered volunteer with an > organisation, you have some chance of proving *why* you have found > these images. Imagine how much fun that would be.. you, a responsible > parent, being prosecuted by some agency because YOU were trying to do > the right thing – and believe me it has happened before. > Your action *was* a waste of time.. do you seriously think nobody in > law enforcement knew about asparagus? Its been reported over and over, > and left there to help catch people.. > Mel > http://www.antichildporn.org/repframe.html > Report child pornography at the above link. To report a newsgroup, you > would want to put that in additional comments as they have not > provided a specific spot for it. >> One other thing I should have added – a lot of these newsgroups are >> tracked by people who have missing children. It is far too big a job >> to be done by any one agency, and a lot of times parents or other >> family members could spot something that people who do not know the >> missing child cannot.. >> Mel

Response:

>One other thing I should have added – a lot of these newsgroups are >tracked by people who have missing children. It is far too big a job >to be done by any one agency, and a lot of times parents or other >family members could spot something that people who do not know the >missing child cannot..

That’s not something I’d ever thought about. I actually tried to rmgroup it last night but my "Free Agent" newsreader isn’t working for some reason.  I was going to ask if there was anyone who could send a control message to try rmgrouping it.   I think I read that someone reported it’s existance to the FBI, that’s probably the best thing to do. Kendra Proud to be "Outlandish"! http://www.crosswinds.net/~outlandish http://www.crosswinds.net/~graphicsbykendra (under construction) *Something to consider* Amatures built the ark, professionals built the Titanic

Response:

>You can’t get access to Asparagus to the best of my knowledge on AOL.

I didn’t see it on AOL or Deja News but I did see it on my ISP’s  list of newsgroups. Kendra Proud to be "Outlandish"! http://www.crosswinds.net/~outlandish http://www.crosswinds.net/~graphicsbykendra (under construction) *Something to consider* Amatures built the ark, professionals built the Titanic

Response:

>Hey all.. >First – I am against the act and distribution of child pornography >anywhere, whether it be on the net or other places. I have done quite >a bit of investigation into this topic, and provide some links for >online reporting of sites – you report it, the organisation tries to >get it removed. >However.. hiding it by not allowing certain news servers to carry it – >or pretending that removing that ONE offending thing will stop it all >together – does not help in any way.

<snip> Well thought out. One thing that you overlooked is that there are many newsfeeds and ISPs that are based in *other* countries (doncha just love the anarchy of the net?) over which the FBI has little or no control. Another item to consider is that a good portion of the child porn out there was made *years* ago and there aren’t really any adults to convict for it. — Do not underestimate your abilities.  That is your boss’s job. It is your job to find ways around your boss’s roadblocks.

Response:

>I hear you Mel and maybe I will join an organization, but I don’t believe >that you have to do that in order to do some good. If  I were to voulanteer >my time at every organization I believed in I would have no time to earn a >living for my family.

IOW, not willing to put his money where his mouth is. >Your post implies that if a parent (such as myself) randomly stumbles across >a site that promotes child sodomy, he should just keep quiet unless he is >prepared to set aside a block of his time to voulanteer at the local >Anti-Child Porn office or whatever, because any other action is just a waste >of time.

That’s certinally one way of looking at it. >I don’t think so. I’ll take my chances and stir up the shit storm >when I can.

IOW, sit and take useless pot shots from the side lines, armed with no real information aside from "<whiney voice> I don’t like it." — Do not underestimate your abilities.  That is your boss’s job. It is your job to find ways around your boss’s roadblocks.

Response:

>I hear you Mel and maybe I will join an organization, but I don’t believe >that you have to do that in order to do some good. If  I were to voulanteer >my time at every organization I believed in I would have no time to earn a >living for my family. I believe that if a parent, or anybody for that >matter, is outraged by what they see especially if it is illegal activity >they should contact the local FBI or enforcement officials. >Organizations are driven by the collective will of the people and that will >has to be made known or else it is impotent. >I think peoples voices should be heard – always. >Your post implies that if a parent (such as myself) randomly stumbles across >a site that promotes child sodomy, he should just keep quiet unless he is >prepared to set aside a block of his time to voulanteer at the local >Anti-Child Porn office or whatever, because any other action is just a waste >of time. I don’t think so. I’ll take my chances and stir up the shit storm >when I can.

Perhaps before stirring up a "shit" storm, you could do a bit of research – after all, you *are* on the net – and try reading what some of those organisations have to say about it. You would then find out exactly where you *can* report it – most of those organisations have an online reporting service. I am not suggesting you should keep quiet, I am suggesting that you take the time to do a bit of research and go about things in a better way than stirring up a shit storm. If you do find a site on the web that promotes child sodomy, or lolitas, or a whole host of other things, in the future, try the link below to report it. So now that you all have reported it to the authorities and got it removed from your news servers, you might want to consider this. alt.binaries.pictures.asparagus Doesn’t exactly scream Child Porn In Here, now does it.. so how do the pedophiles and other assorted people know where to look? How can you stop them starting a *new* newsgroup in two days time, perhaps alt.binaries.pictures.cereal? Are you going to monitor new newsgroups until you find them? What if they decide to use an older newsgroup which has been abandoned? Are you going to look through every single one of 56,000 newsgroups to find out where they are trading their porn now? No, you wont.. but us volunteers and possibly law enforcement will have to. So now that you have done your one good act for the year, you can piss off and leave the hard work for the rest of us.. and thanks for doing your bit to make it just that little bit harder for us. Might I also add, that in a shit storm, it sticks to anyone.. not just the pedophiles. Shit sticks, and if you are reporting it to your local police or FBI, they are going to wonder if YOU now have those images on YOUR hard drive. At least if you were a registered volunteer with an organisation, you have some chance of proving *why* you have found these images. Imagine how much fun that would be.. you, a responsible parent, being prosecuted by some agency because YOU were trying to do the right thing – and believe me it has happened before. Your action *was* a waste of time.. do you seriously think nobody in law enforcement knew about asparagus? Its been reported over and over, and left there to help catch people.. Mel http://www.antichildporn.org/repframe.html Report child pornography at the above link. To report a newsgroup, you would want to put that in additional comments as they have not provided a specific spot for it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> One other thing I should have added – a lot of these newsgroups are > tracked by people who have missing children. It is far too big a job > to be done by any one agency, and a lot of times parents or other > family members could spot something that people who do not know the > missing child cannot.. > Mel

Response:

You can’t get access to Asparagus to the best of my knowledge on AOL.

Response:

I hear you Mel and maybe I will join an organization, but I don’t believe that you have to do that in order to do some good. If  I were to voulanteer my time at every organization I believed in I would have no time to earn a living for my family. I believe that if a parent, or anybody for that matter, is outraged by what they see especially if it is illegal activity they should contact the local FBI or enforcement officials. Organizations are driven by the collective will of the people and that will has to be made known or else it is impotent. I think peoples voices should be heard – always. Your post implies that if a parent (such as myself) randomly stumbles across a site that promotes child sodomy, he should just keep quiet unless he is prepared to set aside a block of his time to voulanteer at the local Anti-Child Porn office or whatever, because any other action is just a waste of time. I don’t think so. I’ll take my chances and stir up the shit storm when I can.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> One other thing I should have added – a lot of these newsgroups are > tracked by people who have missing children. It is far too big a job > to be done by any one agency, and a lot of times parents or other > family members could spot something that people who do not know the > missing child cannot.. > Mel

Response:

Hey all.. First – I am against the act and distribution of child pornography anywhere, whether it be on the net or other places. I have done quite a bit of investigation into this topic, and provide some links for online reporting of sites – you report it, the organisation tries to get it removed. However.. hiding it by not allowing certain news servers to carry it – or pretending that removing that ONE offending thing will stop it all together – does not help in any way. There are news servers on the net who *will* carry it totally uncensored and people pay for those services on occasion. There are even services that will decode the binaries for people – again its a pay service. There are websites with child pornography photographs all over the place, and often the only way to find them is through newsgroups, so by shutting down that newsgroup, you could be killing off leads for investigators. No matter what you do, these people are out there.. You can try to get the newsgroup banned, but they will just pop up again in a different newsgroup that you <and the authorities> might not find and monitor, keeping track of email addresses and the ISP’s of people silly enough not to post from an anonymous source. There are plenty of organisations you can volunteer to join if you want to be helpful in the effort to stop child pornography. There are plenty of places you can report web sites and newsgroups showing child pornography online. The thing is, you have to go about this the right way. If you report it <like a lot of people have been doing> to your ISP, and they manage to get it removed from YOUR newsfeed, it means *you* and other people on that newsfeed cannot see it, but there are so many newsfeeds that will be unaffected by this. Its no good going off half-cocked and thinking you have solved the problem when all you have done is to remove it from your own eyes. You could also do so much more good by keeping an eye on the newsgroup and reporting the sites that advertise there to the right people. If you come across people using free email services to request child pornography, you can send a copy of their post detailing the newsgroup it was posted to etc, and then the email provider can shut down their email. Just one person can be a huge nuisance to these people – but you have to remember, there are lots of law authorities trying to stop this, too, and you could easily ruin their work by not knowing what you are doing. In my opinion, if you want to be a help and not a hindrance, you’d be much better off volunteering yourself to any of the hundreds of organisations and working with them instead of reporting one off instances to your local constabulary. You might like to try some of the below sites if you are *really* serious about doing something. If not, then just leave it to the people who *are* serious about doing something. If you want to pretend it does not exist, or that the problem can be solved overnight, then God help your children.. and God Bless the people who spend a lot of their spare time hanging out in IRC channels getting enough documentation to prosecute.. the people who work very hard to get rid of sites with child pornography on them.. the people who work very hard to put pedophiles away in jail. It is not something one person can solve by reporting one thing to authorities.. it is the sort of thing ALL of us need to work on together. Do-gooders who are looking for an easy fix are going to be disappointed. Child pornography is a big problem all over the world. If you do not want to get too involved, you might like to try being a Cybermom – http://www.cyberangels.org/cybermoms/cybermoms.html I’ve said my piece.. feel free to flame me if you desire, it will not change the way I feel about it. Mel http://www.cyberangels.org/caopen.html http://www.antichildporn.org/ http://www.webstore.fr/~tahiti/pedo.htm http://ca.yahoo.com/Society_and_Culture/Crime/Crimes/Sex_Crimes/Child… http://www.a-c-p-m.org/main.html http://www.hotstreak.net/anti/index.html

Response:

>Your assertation seems to be that by closing down a news site on a >particular ISP that it will make it more difficult for the authorities to do >their job. I can’t really comment on that since I am not a professional like >yourself apparently. I saw something that was both very disturbing and >ilegal and I reported it to the local police and FBI – presumably they are >the authorities in this case and if they see fit to shut down the news feed >then they will – if they think they can do more good in tracking people with >it up then they wont.

We’re talking international stuff here.. if you do a bit of a search around on the net, you’ll find some pages that tell of the incredible difficulty simply because it is so widespread. For example.. if my next door neighbour was a pedophile, your FBI would not have a lot of hope of doing anything other than reporting it to the Australian police.. Luckily, the Australian police take it seriously.. some other countries do not. >Personally (and once again I do not claim to be an expert) I think that >shutting down a disgusting child pornography site that directly feeds an >industry whic harms children will do more good than bad. If one news server >ceases to carry it that could mean that thousands of people will be spared >seeing it and potentially supporting it.

This is true – but there could also be people, using your newsfeed, tracking it.. that is, getting the email addresses used by people in that newsgroup and reporting them.. A lot of them *are* free email names, or totally fake, but ocasionally these people can be caught. If not, the account can be shut down.. which is a pain in the butt for the people using it. You might not know this, but there are a multitude of legal porn sites that advertise in these channels, falsely <or not>advertising that they have underage models on their sites. Some of the organisations that I listed will then get an ID for that site, and if there ARE any "lolitas" or children that are being shown there, then they can close down that site. There are some other newsgroups that are fairly obvious.. and hardly anything gets posted there anymore because people have been caught, so now they are looking for newsgroups where they are unlikely to be noticed. It might be worth your time sitting down and going through some of the alt.binaries groups if you wanted to find some others to ban.. anything with the word pedophile in the title is a fairly obvious place to start, but look at them all because it can be hidden anywhere. Just remember that the volunteers could be anywhere, and shutting down newsfeeds does make things harder for them. >Obviously there are many facets to the problem and it is more pervasive than >this one site but I defiitely believe that the more people who get angry >about it and consistently raise hell about it IN ANY WAY THEY CAN the more >chance we have of fighting it. Passivity is the greatest enemy to change. >I can tell that this problem does concern you and I aporeciate your thoughts >on the matter but i will not apologize for trying to raise public awareness >about this problem no matter how bluntly I try to do it.

You want to raise public awareness, go for it.. but at the same time, why not volunteer your services to some of these organisations and *really* do some good. I believe anonymous remailers <news> should be banned outright, not only do they cause a lot of trouble with trolls, but a lot of pedophiles use them. If you’re an IRC user, check the list of channels next time you log on.. you’d be surprised how many people trade porn there. AOL is another place to look. Its great to have free email, but why is there no system to check your details? Sounds impossible, I know.. but look at how the "legal" porn industry on the net has clamped down – with age verification services. Your children could have email accounts all over the place and you would not know, which means they can be preyed upon by pedophiles. The one thing that needs to be done most is public lobbying to tighten up the laws on what you can and cannot do on the internet. A lot of people object to this, citing freedom of speech. Pictures of children being used for sexual gratification is not freedom of speech. Using hidden webcams to capture people in situations where they have no idea they are being filmed is not freedom of speech. Pictures of autopsys and crash photographs and other gore-filled pictures are all over the net, and your child could come across one tomorrow, and that is freedom of speech? What about the people who are being autopsied? Do they deserve no dignity and respect in death? How would you feel if it was *your* parent? Your friend? Your child? Just some thoughts.. I was not attacking anyone.. I just know how hard it can be because I am a volunteer myself, people come and go all the time, thinking they can make a huge difference, and when they find out there is no magic easy fix solution, they get discouraged, and vanish. Mel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Mark >p.s. I wouldn’t dream of trying to "change the way you feel" about >something… > Hey all.. > First – I am against the act and distribution of child pornography > anywhere, whether it be on the net or other places. I have done quite > a bit of investigation into this topic, and provide some links for > online reporting of sites – you report it, the organisation tries to > get it removed. > However.. hiding it by not allowing certain news servers to carry it – > or pretending that removing that ONE offending thing will stop it all > together – does not help in any way. There are news servers on the net > who *will* carry it totally uncensored and people pay for those > services on occasion. There are even services that will decode the > binaries for people – again its a pay service. There are websites with > child pornography photographs all over the place, and often the only > way to find them is through newsgroups, so by shutting down that > newsgroup, you could be killing off leads for investigators. > No matter what you do, these people are out there.. You can try to get > the newsgroup banned, but they will just pop up again in a different > newsgroup that you <and the authorities> might not find and monitor, > keeping track of email addresses and the ISP’s of people silly enough > not to post from an anonymous source. There are plenty of > organisations you can volunteer to join if you want to be helpful in > the effort to stop child pornography. There are plenty of places you > can report web sites and newsgroups showing child pornography online. > The thing is, you have to go about this the right way. If you report > it <like a lot of people have been doing> to your ISP, and they manage > to get it removed from YOUR newsfeed, it means *you* and other people > on that newsfeed cannot see it, but there are so many newsfeeds that > will be unaffected by this. Its no good going off half-cocked and > thinking you have solved the problem when all you have done is to > remove it from your own eyes. You could also do so much more good by > keeping an eye on the newsgroup and reporting the sites that advertise > there to the right people. If you come across people using free email > services to request child pornography, you can send a copy of their > post detailing the newsgroup it was posted to etc, and then the email > provider can shut down their email. > Just one person can be a huge nuisance to these people – but you have > to remember, there are lots of law authorities trying to stop this, > too, and you could easily ruin their work by not knowing what you are > doing. > In my opinion, if you want to be a help and not a hindrance, you’d be > much better off volunteering yourself to any of the hundreds of > organisations and working with them instead of reporting one off > instances to your local constabulary. > You might like to try some of the below sites if you are *really* > serious about doing something. If not, then just leave it to the > people who *are* serious about doing something. If you want to pretend > it does not exist, or that the problem can be solved overnight, then > God help your children.. and God Bless the people who spend a lot of > their spare time hanging out in IRC channels getting enough > documentation to prosecute.. the people who work very hard to get rid > of sites with child pornography on them.. the people who work very > hard to put pedophiles away in jail. It is not something one person > can solve by reporting one thing to authorities.. it is the sort of > thing ALL of us need to work on together. > Do-gooders who are looking for an easy fix are going to be > disappointed. Child pornography is a big problem all over the world. > If you do not want to get too involved, you might like to try being a > Cybermom – > http://www.cyberangels.org/cybermoms/cybermoms.html > I’ve said my piece.. feel free to flame me if you desire, it will not > change the way I feel about it. > Mel > http://www.cyberangels.org/caopen.html > http://www.antichildporn.org/ > http://www.webstore.fr/~tahiti/pedo.htm >http://ca.yahoo.com/Society_and_Culture/Crime/Crimes/Sex_Crimes/Child… >raphy > http://www.a-c-p-m.org/main.html > http://www.hotstreak.net/anti/index.html

Response:

One other thing I should have added – a lot of these newsgroups are tracked by people who have missing children. It is far too big a job to be done by any one agency, and a lot of times parents or other family members could spot something that people who do not know the missing child cannot.. Mel

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Your assertation seems to be that by closing down a news site on a particular ISP that it will make it more difficult for the authorities to do their job. I can’t really comment on that since I am not a professional like yourself apparently. I saw something that was both very disturbing and ilegal and I reported it to the local police and FBI – presumably they are the authorities in this case and if they see fit to shut down the news feed then they will – if they think they can do more good in tracking people with it up then they wont. Personally (and once again I do not claim to be an expert) I think that shutting down a disgusting child pornography site that directly feeds an industry whic harms children will do more good than bad. If one news server ceases to carry it that could mean that thousands of people will be spared seeing it and potentially supporting it. Obviously there are many facets to the problem and it is more pervasive than this one site but I defiitely believe that the more people who get angry about it and consistently raise hell about it IN ANY WAY THEY CAN the more chance we have of fighting it. Passivity is the greatest enemy to change. I can tell that this problem does concern you and I aporeciate your thoughts on the matter but i will not apologize for trying to raise public awareness about this problem no matter how bluntly I try to do it. Mark p.s. I wouldn’t dream of trying to "change the way you feel" about something…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hey all.. > First – I am against the act and distribution of child pornography > anywhere, whether it be on the net or other places. I have done quite > a bit of investigation into this topic, and provide some links for > online reporting of sites – you report it, the organisation tries to > get it removed. > However.. hiding it by not allowing certain news servers to carry it – > or pretending that removing that ONE offending thing will stop it all > together – does not help in any way. There are news servers on the net > who *will* carry it totally uncensored and people pay for those > services on occasion. There are even services that will decode the > binaries for people – again its a pay service. There are websites with > child pornography photographs all over the place, and often the only > way to find them is through newsgroups, so by shutting down that > newsgroup, you could be killing off leads for investigators. > No matter what you do, these people are out there.. You can try to get > the newsgroup banned, but they will just pop up again in a different > newsgroup that you <and the authorities> might not find and monitor, > keeping track of email addresses and the ISP’s of people silly enough > not to post from an anonymous source. There are plenty of > organisations you can volunteer to join if you want to be helpful in > the effort to stop child pornography. There are plenty of places you > can report web sites and newsgroups showing child pornography online. > The thing is, you have to go about this the right way. If you report > it <like a lot of people have been doing> to your ISP, and they manage > to get it removed from YOUR newsfeed, it means *you* and other people > on that newsfeed cannot see it, but there are so many newsfeeds that > will be unaffected by this. Its no good going off half-cocked and > thinking you have solved the problem when all you have done is to > remove it from your own eyes. You could also do so much more good by > keeping an eye on the newsgroup and reporting the sites that advertise > there to the right people. If you come across people using free email > services to request child pornography, you can send a copy of their > post detailing the newsgroup it was posted to etc, and then the email > provider can shut down their email. > Just one person can be a huge nuisance to these people – but you have > to remember, there are lots of law authorities trying to stop this, > too, and you could easily ruin their work by not knowing what you are > doing. > In my opinion, if you want to be a help and not a hindrance, you’d be > much better off volunteering yourself to any of the hundreds of > organisations and working with them instead of reporting one off > instances to your local constabulary. > You might like to try some of the below sites if you are *really* > serious about doing something. If not, then just leave it to the > people who *are* serious about doing something. If you want to pretend > it does not exist, or that the problem can be solved overnight, then > God help your children.. and God Bless the people who spend a lot of > their spare time hanging out in IRC channels getting enough > documentation to prosecute.. the people who work very hard to get rid > of sites with child pornography on them.. the people who work very > hard to put pedophiles away in jail. It is not something one person > can solve by reporting one thing to authorities.. it is the sort of > thing ALL of us need to work on together. > Do-gooders who are looking for an easy fix are going to be > disappointed. Child pornography is a big problem all over the world. > If you do not want to get too involved, you might like to try being a > Cybermom – > http://www.cyberangels.org/cybermoms/cybermoms.html > I’ve said my piece.. feel free to flame me if you desire, it will not > change the way I feel about it. > Mel > http://www.cyberangels.org/caopen.html > http://www.antichildporn.org/ > http://www.webstore.fr/~tahiti/pedo.htm

http://ca.yahoo.com/Society_and_Culture/Crime/Crimes/Sex_Crimes/Child… raphy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> http://www.a-c-p-m.org/main.html > http://www.hotstreak.net/anti/index.html

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