Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >| That’s interesting feedback and handy advise. I am working on it with >| him, only in a less obvious way. I don’t want to get his back up. >| He’s quite protective of his father, even though I think the man is a >| bad influence. >| >I hope your not sharing your opinion of his father with him. That is the >biggest mistake you can make. The relationship between your son and his >father is totally seperate that the relationship you had or have with his >father. My parents made that mistake. My mother when I was younger, that >caused a lot of problems. Then my father when I was a little older, more >big problems. >It’s like a no one can call my mom anything but me kinda thing.
I agree with that CY, I do think though that if she allows her son to really think about the pros and cons, he *will* make his choice more wisely. She shouldn’t try to prejudice her son against living with his dad, though, but try to get him to look at the advantages and disavantages objectively. Dorothy
Response:
> I didn’t know this, but I was horribly upset when I found out. Despite > the fact that I’m the custodial parent (granted by the court), my son > could choose to live at his father’s at the age of 14 and there is > nothing I can do about it! Lordy, at 14 these kids are raging with > hormones. They are melding themselves and always trying out new > things. I know it’s important for him to try on new "coats" (if you > will) and see which one fits best, but heavens… he is in no position > to decide THIS at the age of 14! Any thoughts?
At 18 he is going to be out in the world on his own and possibly living with neither parent. Certainly at that age all "custody" rights cease as he becomes a legal adult. If he is to be given any choice in his residence whilst still legally a minor it seems most sensible that this is granted at some time between 12 and 14. Under 12 he almost certainly cannot make up his own mind independently and would be too pressured by one parent or another. Since courts usually grant custody to the mother he will probably be with her at this time, and that is usually the best place for a pre-teenager. If left till after 14 the child’s studies could be seriously disrupted by a change of location and he wouldn’t have enough time before 18 to enjoy the benefits of living with his "prefered" parent. Teenagers, boys in particular, really need the role model of their same sex parent on a day-by-day basis. Mothers who’ve had their children around since birth and naturally done so much for them may find it hard to give them up as their teens start, but the best interests of the child dictate that during their teens they should be with whichever parent THEY consider they would be happiest with. The legal system needs to respect children’s rights to choose for themselves as early as reasonably practicable with which parent they wish to live whilst also ensuring that the other parent has a right to regularly see the child.
Response:
In answer to your question… my son is constantly asking why his father and I aren’t together, why can’t we be together? I honestly answer that there are many things about his father that I dislike. I have explained that, though his dad is nice to him, at times he’s mean to me. I have friends to vent the other stuff on – a ten year old is not equipped to handle mature emotions such as the ones I experience. I would never dump that on him… though I suspect his father does. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->| That’s interesting feedback and handy advise. I am working on it with >| him, only in a less obvious way. I don’t want to get his back up. >| He’s quite protective of his father, even though I think the man is a >| bad influence. >| >I hope your not sharing your opinion of his father with him. That is the >biggest mistake you can make. The relationship between your son and his >father is totally seperate that the relationship you had or have with his >father. My parents made that mistake. My mother when I was younger, that >caused a lot of problems. Then my father when I was a little older, more >big problems. >It’s like a no one can call my mom anything but me kinda thing. > I agree with that CY, I do think though that if she allows her son to really > think about the pros and cons, he *will* make his choice more wisely. > She shouldn’t try to prejudice her son against living with his dad, though, > but try to get him to look at the advantages and disavantages objectively. > Dorothy
Before you buy.
Response:
Well, firstly I will say that I never said he wanted to move. I’m just a paranoid, low-esteem mom. Sigh. I DO listen to him and I DO provide him with his needs. We have a fantastic relationship. I’m just afraid his dad will put some thoughts into his head, which he is inclined to do. It’s been a long battle helping the poor little guy make sense of a lot of this stuff. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > | I didn’t know this, but I was horribly upset when I found out. Despite > | the fact that I’m the custodial parent (granted by the court), my son > | could choose to live at his father’s at the age of 14 and there is > | nothing I can do about it! Lordy, at 14 these kids are raging with > | hormones. They are melding themselves and always trying out new > | things. I know it’s important for him to try on new "coats" (if you > | will) and see which one fits best, but heavens… he is in no position > | to decide THIS at the age of 14! Any thoughts? > | > Oh yea, lots of thoughts! > What happened to make him want to leave and go with his father? > I am waiting for the day my son is old enough to decide for himself cause I > am pretty sure he will choose to come live with me. Now I don’t put these > thoughts into his head I just listen to him but unfortunately the system is > setup poorly and there isn’t much I can do about it right now. He is > currently with his father at age 9 since he was stolen from me at age 5. > His new stepmother since he was stolen has been a blessing for him, his > father is verbally abusive and I don’t know how she manages to stay with > him. This man usually doesn’t show his true colors till about a year down > the road and I imagine she is feeling pretty stuck or maybe she is still > hoping that he will change. But as long as she is in the home I feel > certain that my son will be ok. Hard to believe that a nc mother could like > the step-mother. I would rather share my son with her than with him. > Anyway, If his dad doesn’t change his ways the day will come that my son > will want to live with me and his brothers. I really hope it doesn’t happen > that way. I love my son and I don’t want him to have hard feelings for his > dad. I hope, like his step-mom, that things will change. > 14 is old enough to know what you want and who is willing to give it to you. > You need to figure out just what it is that your son wants. And then figure > out how you will give it to him and still be able to acheive what you want > for your son.
Before you buy.
Response:
My suspicion, in this case, is that his father would encourage this move simply to get the support money. I have had to engage the assistance of our government to get the support from him. He would relish the idea of "getting me back". He is quite unstable at times – this is what worries me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I would tend to agree with you. I think 16 – 18 would be a better age for the > child being able to decide. Unless, of course the child has substantial claims > against another parent and a real need to be with the other, I don’t see why > the parent who has been granted custody has to give them up. Children are > venturing at this age, and want different things. Your son. may decide to come > back home after a while. so long as your ex is taking care good care of him and > he is truly happy… I would not interfere too much. However, I have never been > in this situation and it is difficult to judge what I would do in this case. > You never really can say unless you have experienced it. > zipper
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I didn’t know this, but I was horribly upset when I found out. Despite >the fact that I’m the custodial parent (granted by the court), my son >could choose to live at his father’s at the age of 14 and there is >nothing I can do about it! Lordy, at 14 these kids are raging with >hormones. They are melding themselves and always trying out new >things. I know it’s important for him to try on new "coats" (if you >will) and see which one fits best, but heavens… he is in no position >to decide THIS at the age of 14! Any thoughts? >Before you buy.
Before you buy.
Response:
Wow, you have brought up many issues. I will insert my comments below… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I didn’t know this, but I was horribly upset when I found out. Despite > the fact that I’m the custodial parent (granted by the court), my son > could choose to live at his father’s at the age of 14 and there is > nothing I can do about it! Lordy, at 14 these kids are raging with > hormones. They are melding themselves and always trying out new > things. I know it’s important for him to try on new "coats" (if you > will) and see which one fits best, but heavens… he is in no position > to decide THIS at the age of 14! Any thoughts? > At 18 he is going to be out in the world on his own and possibly living > with neither parent. Certainly at that age all "custody" rights cease > as he becomes a legal adult. > If he is to be given any choice in his residence whilst still legally a > minor it seems most sensible that this is granted at some time between > 12 and 14.
–this makes sense. I agree with the logic in this. > Under 12 he almost certainly cannot make up his own mind independently > and would be too pressured by one parent or another. Since courts > usually grant custody to the mother he will probably be with her at this > time, and that is usually the best place for a pre-teenager.
–In Canada, courts do not "usually" grant custody to the mothers. How it works is whomever the child has been residing with most often when going to court, that is who the child will be ordered to stay with. This ensures, from their perspective, that the child remains in a stable environment and is not disrupted. As it tends to be the man that leaves a situation, I suppose this is why it seems that mothers get custody most often. Although I am a mother myself, and I gained custody because I had to have the father removed from the home by the police, I do not agree that the mother is the best place for a child. > If left till after 14 the child’s studies could be seriously disrupted > by a change of location and he wouldn’t have enough time before 18 to > enjoy the benefits of living with his "prefered" parent.
–Again, this is a good point. My son’s father doesn’t like to make much effort in helping our son with his homework. Several times, I’ve sent him off for the weekend with instructions for a project due to the school and he’s come home, after a full weekend, with hardly anything done. This has caused me to scramble like crazy through the week, trying to juggle homework and project work… both of us ending up exhausted by the end of the week. This has happened more than once. This has me concerned about this aspect of his life should he live with his dad. > Teenagers, boys in particular, really need the role model of their same > sex parent on a day-by-day basis. Mothers who’ve had their children > around since birth and naturally done so much for them may find it hard > to give them up as their teens start, but the best interests of the > child dictate that during their teens they should be with whichever > parent THEY consider they would be happiest with.
–Although I agree that children need a good same-sex role model, it can not be assumed that that role model should be the parent. There are many horrible parents out there who should not be role-modelling children. > The legal system needs to respect children’s rights to choose for > themselves as early as reasonably practicable with which parent they > wish to live whilst also ensuring that the other parent has a right to > regularly see the child.
–From a legal perspective, this comment is logical. Thanks you very much for your comments. They were both insightful and challenging, yet not combative. Before you buy.
Response:
> My suspicion, in this case, is that his father would encourage this > move simply to get the support money. I have had to engage the > assistance of our government to get the support from him. He would > relish the idea of "getting me back". He is quite unstable at times – > this is what worries me.
I have frequently noted that children of divorce who decide to change which parent they are living with are often seeking the grass that they perceive is greener on the other side: less strict rules, more material stuff, more opportunities to do whatever they want. The children that I have seen make this particular type of choice seem to be the ones who are bumping heads with the current custodial parent and may be on the verge of school expulsions or legal issues, if not already in those shoes. The children who have developed more pro-social decision making skills and a more positive relationship with the current custodial parent do not usually seem, in my experience, to then choose to go to the other parent. So, my observations, for what they are worth. – Aula
Response:
Thanks for the feedback. It’s quite reassuring. I’m usually quite on top of things… guess the old "ex" still knows how to push those buttons. Sigh. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My suspicion, in this case, is that his father would encourage this > move simply to get the support money. I have had to engage the > assistance of our government to get the support from him. He would > relish the idea of "getting me back". He is quite unstable at times – > this is what worries me. > I have frequently noted that children of divorce who decide to change which > parent they are living with are often seeking the grass that they perceive > is greener on the other side: less strict rules, more material stuff, more > opportunities to do whatever they want. The children that I have seen make > this particular type of choice seem to be the ones who are bumping heads > with the current custodial parent and may be on the verge of school > expulsions or legal issues, if not already in those shoes. The children who > have developed more pro-social decision making skills and a more positive > relationship with the current custodial parent do not usually seem, in my > experience, to then choose to go to the other parent. > So, my observations, for what they are worth. > – Aula
Before you buy.
Response:
|
| > My suspicion, in this case, is that his father would encourage this | > move simply to get the support money. I have had to engage the | > assistance of our government to get the support from him. He would | > relish the idea of "getting me back". He is quite unstable at times – | > this is what worries me. | > Just make sure your feelings on this move don’t have the same motivation!
Response:
That’s good. I know my ex talks bad about me to our son(or at least he did), his wife has even as much as admitted it. I never talk bad about my ex to my son. I know that in time our son will see for himself, if he hasn’t already, what his dad is. He is not all bad, he just doesn’t know how to love without being controlling and possesive. I know my son will see the truth but I hope for my son’s sake that he doesn’t.
| In answer to your question… my son is constantly asking why his | father and I aren’t together, why can’t we be together? I honestly | answer that there are many things about his father that I dislike. I | have explained that, though his dad is nice to him, at times he’s mean | to me. I have friends to vent the other stuff on – a ten year old is | not equipped to handle mature emotions such as the ones I experience. | I would never dump that on him… though I suspect his father does. | | >
| > > | > >| That’s interesting feedback and handy advise. I am working on it | with | > >| him, only in a less obvious way. I don’t want to get his back up. | > >| He’s quite protective of his father, even though I think the man | is a | > >| bad influence. | > >| | > > | > >I hope your not sharing your opinion of his father with him. That | is the | > >biggest mistake you can make. The relationship between your son and | his | > >father is totally seperate that the relationship you had or have | with his | > >father. My parents made that mistake. My mother when I was | younger, that | > >caused a lot of problems. Then my father when I was a little older, | more | > >big problems. | > >It’s like a no one can call my mom anything but me kinda thing. | > > | > I agree with that CY, I do think though that if she allows her son to | really | > think about the pros and cons, he *will* make his choice more wisely. | > She shouldn’t try to prejudice her son against living with his dad, | though, | > but try to get him to look at the advantages and disavantages | objectively. | > | > Dorothy | > | > | | | Before you buy.
Response:
| That’s interesting feedback and handy advise. I am working on it with | him, only in a less obvious way. I don’t want to get his back up. | He’s quite protective of his father, even though I think the man is a | bad influence. | I hope your not sharing your opinion of his father with him. That is the biggest mistake you can make. The relationship between your son and his father is totally seperate that the relationship you had or have with his father. My parents made that mistake. My mother when I was younger, that caused a lot of problems. Then my father when I was a little older, more big problems. It’s like a no one can call my mom anything but me kinda thing.
Response:
I would tend to agree with you. I think 16 – 18 would be a better age for the child being able to decide. Unless, of course the child has substantial claims against another parent and a real need to be with the other, I don’t see why the parent who has been granted custody has to give them up. Children are venturing at this age, and want different things. Your son. may decide to come back home after a while. so long as your ex is taking care good care of him and he is truly happy… I would not interfere too much. However, I have never been in this situation and it is difficult to judge what I would do in this case. You never really can say unless you have experienced it. zipper – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I didn’t know this, but I was horribly upset when I found out. Despite >the fact that I’m the custodial parent (granted by the court), my son >could choose to live at his father’s at the age of 14 and there is >nothing I can do about it! Lordy, at 14 these kids are raging with >hormones. They are melding themselves and always trying out new >things. I know it’s important for him to try on new "coats" (if you >will) and see which one fits best, but heavens… he is in no position >to decide THIS at the age of 14! Any thoughts? >Before you buy.
Response:
| Well, firstly I will say that I never said he wanted to move. I’m just | a paranoid, low-esteem mom. Sigh. I DO listen to him and I DO provide | him with his needs. We have a fantastic relationship. I’m just afraid | his dad will put some thoughts into his head, which he is inclined to | do. It’s been a long battle helping the poor little guy make sense of | a lot of this stuff. | You know, maybe your son has just come to a point in his life where he feels he needs his father more. If you do have a fantastic relationship you shouldn’t have anything to worry about. If yours is as great as the one between me and my oldest then you should know that nothing anyone can say or do will come between what you have with your son. Just as your relationship with his father is seperate from the relationship between you and your son, the same is true for your relationship between you and your son, it is different that what he has with his father. You ex may or may not say things but your son will know the truth. If your son decides to live with his father you can still continue your relationship with your son. Does your ex live close by?
Response:
I think if there are no issues of abuse or neglect a child of 14 should have, but no finial say. Case in point, I have an uncle who has 4 children, two by an ex, two by his current wife. He has custody of his eldest two, the courts decided mom was "unfit" and was granted limited visitation. The boys are now 16 and 14 yrs old. Mom has gotten her life a bit more on track and the 14 yr old would love to go live with her. My uncle and his wife have chosen to fight that. Their reasons? The ex lives in the Bay Area of California. The longest she has held a job is 6 months, and she moves every 4-6 months. She has a drug history and still hangs out with friends who do drugs. She also has a lot of gay and lesbian friends (which I don’t have a problem with, but my uncle and his wife do, since becoming "born again Christians.) From talking to the boys I know that when they are in California with their mom they are unsupervised for as much as 16 hours a day. Their mom lets them stay out until 2 or 3 am and lets them drink and smoke (all things their Dad would never allow) She also encourages them to have sex, allow she does buy them condoms (14 yr old thought this was really cool, 16 yr old is very active in Dad’s church and asked to come home early.) Do you see why in this case I don’t think a 14 yr old should have finial say on which parent he lives with? IMO, their mom is still "unfit" to be a full time parent. Liz
Response:
| I didn’t know this, but I was horribly upset when I found out. Despite | the fact that I’m the custodial parent (granted by the court), my son | could choose to live at his father’s at the age of 14 and there is | nothing I can do about it! Lordy, at 14 these kids are raging with | hormones. They are melding themselves and always trying out new | things. I know it’s important for him to try on new "coats" (if you | will) and see which one fits best, but heavens… he is in no position | to decide THIS at the age of 14! Any thoughts? | Oh yea, lots of thoughts! What happened to make him want to leave and go with his father? I am waiting for the day my son is old enough to decide for himself cause I am pretty sure he will choose to come live with me. Now I don’t put these thoughts into his head I just listen to him but unfortunately the system is setup poorly and there isn’t much I can do about it right now. He is currently with his father at age 9 since he was stolen from me at age 5. His new stepmother since he was stolen has been a blessing for him, his father is verbally abusive and I don’t know how she manages to stay with him. This man usually doesn’t show his true colors till about a year down the road and I imagine she is feeling pretty stuck or maybe she is still hoping that he will change. But as long as she is in the home I feel certain that my son will be ok. Hard to believe that a nc mother could like the step-mother. I would rather share my son with her than with him. Anyway, If his dad doesn’t change his ways the day will come that my son will want to live with me and his brothers. I really hope it doesn’t happen that way. I love my son and I don’t want him to have hard feelings for his dad. I hope, like his step-mom, that things will change. 14 is old enough to know what you want and who is willing to give it to you. You need to figure out just what it is that your son wants. And then figure out how you will give it to him and still be able to acheive what you want for your son.
Response:
You’re right, of course. I still get nervous. I have been told a thousand times that I’m a great mom and that he’ll be fine… but this is one area where I get nervous. Perhaps it’s due to the fact that I was brought up in a controlling environment (and of course married a controlling person). I become frightened that my son will also fall prey to this controlling influence. I have been assured that since he’s in a constant "think for yourself" environment (mine), then I have nothing to worry about – that even if he does decide to live with his dad – he will soon be home again. Parenting is so rough some days! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I didn’t know this, but I was horribly upset when I found out. Despite >the fact that I’m the custodial parent (granted by the court), my son >could choose to live at his father’s at the age of 14 and there is >nothing I can do about it! Lordy, at 14 these kids are raging with >hormones. They are melding themselves and always trying out new >things. I know it’s important for him to try on new "coats" (if you >will) and see which one fits best, but heavens… he is in no position >to decide THIS at the age of 14! Any thoughts? > In Australia, the kids are allowed to decide at age 12. I live with a > NCP birth father. His son (SK) is 6, and has been having a lot of > problems at school and at Mum’s (BM) house. She’s seen fit to blame it > all on us instead of looking at what *she* might be doing to cause > these problems. She spanks, she calls him names, she is too busy > trying to earn a degree (so she can earn lots of money) to pay him the > attention he needs.. there is more! So all I have to say to you is one > thing – if you always do the right thing by your son, then you > shouldn’t have to worry about him wanting to live with Dad. > Personally, we are looking forward to the day that SK can decide where > he wants to live – only because of the things his BM is doing. If she > did the right thing by SK – and to a lesser extent by us, we wouldn’t > mind him living with her, but when he comes here every weekend and > tells us what has been going on, and when he gets suspended from > school for fighting (BM told him to "defend" himself if anyone hassled > him, we told him to walk away and talk to a teacher or scream)… we > only want what is best for SK, and at the moment, I’m no longer sure > that living with BM is what is best for him.. > Mel > Melissa Torresan
– If yee can think it, yee can do it! Deb, single mother of 10 year old boy Before you buy.
Response:
I didn’t know this, but I was horribly upset when I found out. Despite the fact that I’m the custodial parent (granted by the court), my son could choose to live at his father’s at the age of 14 and there is nothing I can do about it! Lordy, at 14 these kids are raging with hormones. They are melding themselves and always trying out new things. I know it’s important for him to try on new "coats" (if you will) and see which one fits best, but heavens… he is in no position to decide THIS at the age of 14! Any thoughts? Before you buy.
Response:
>I didn’t know this, but I was horribly upset when I found out. Despite >the fact that I’m the custodial parent (granted by the court), my son >could choose to live at his father’s at the age of 14 and there is >nothing I can do about it! Lordy, at 14 these kids are raging with >hormones. They are melding themselves and always trying out new >things. I know it’s important for him to try on new "coats" (if you >will) and see which one fits best, but heavens… he is in no position >to decide THIS at the age of 14! Any thoughts?
Why don’t you think he can evaluate this choice at 14? What exactly is the problem with his living with his father? Do you think that he hasn’t got all the facts about how living there might affect him? If that is the case, then sit down with him and let him make a list of the pros and cons and think about his options. You might find that he does have the ability to figure out what is best for him. Dorothy
Response:
That’s interesting feedback and handy advise. I am working on it with him, only in a less obvious way. I don’t want to get his back up. He’s quite protective of his father, even though I think the man is a bad influence.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I didn’t know this, but I was horribly upset when I found out. Despite >the fact that I’m the custodial parent (granted by the court), my son >could choose to live at his father’s at the age of 14 and there is >nothing I can do about it! Lordy, at 14 these kids are raging with >hormones. They are melding themselves and always trying out new >things. I know it’s important for him to try on new "coats" (if you >will) and see which one fits best, but heavens… he is in no position >to decide THIS at the age of 14! Any thoughts? > Why don’t you think he can evaluate this choice at 14? > What exactly is the problem with his living with his father? > Do you think that he hasn’t got all the facts about how living > there might affect him? If that is the case, then sit down with > him and let him make a list of the pros and cons and think > about his options. You might find that he does have the ability > to figure out what is best for him. > Dorothy
– If yee can think it, yee can do it! Deb, single mother of 10 year old boy Before you buy.
Response:
>I didn’t know this, but I was horribly upset when I found out. Despite >the fact that I’m the custodial parent (granted by the court), my son >could choose to live at his father’s at the age of 14 and there is >nothing I can do about it! Lordy, at 14 these kids are raging with >hormones. They are melding themselves and always trying out new >things. I know it’s important for him to try on new "coats" (if you >will) and see which one fits best, but heavens… he is in no position >to decide THIS at the age of 14! Any thoughts?
In Australia, the kids are allowed to decide at age 12. I live with a NCP birth father. His son (SK) is 6, and has been having a lot of problems at school and at Mum’s (BM) house. She’s seen fit to blame it all on us instead of looking at what *she* might be doing to cause these problems. She spanks, she calls him names, she is too busy trying to earn a degree (so she can earn lots of money) to pay him the attention he needs.. there is more! So all I have to say to you is one thing – if you always do the right thing by your son, then you shouldn’t have to worry about him wanting to live with Dad. Personally, we are looking forward to the day that SK can decide where he wants to live – only because of the things his BM is doing. If she did the right thing by SK – and to a lesser extent by us, we wouldn’t mind him living with her, but when he comes here every weekend and tells us what has been going on, and when he gets suspended from school for fighting (BM told him to "defend" himself if anyone hassled him, we told him to walk away and talk to a teacher or scream)… we only want what is best for SK, and at the moment, I’m no longer sure that living with BM is what is best for him.. Mel Melissa Torresan
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