Pure Parents

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> When you *accuse someone of hating their parents, what would be the >appropriate >> response if, in fact, they do not…..denial perhaps? Please come up with >> something better than the psycho-babble bullshit that flies around here >most >> regularly. >I’ve heard this crap so often and then heard them turn around and >contradict it directly to me, sometimes the same people on this group, >in email rather than newsgroup, that I don’t believe a word of it >anymore. > Oh bullshit. I gave up believing a word that you say long ago. The overwhelming > majority of people do not hate their parents and you know it. You just make > this crapola up……and say it as fact……never proving any of it because > you cannot. > Josie

I don’t even NEED to prove it, I simply wait for you to do so with your excessive reaction to it, and then sit back and grin. Steve

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> When you *accuse someone of hating their parents, what would be the > >appropriate > >> response if, in fact, they do not…..denial perhaps? Please come up >with > >> something better than the psycho-babble bullshit that flies around here > >most > >> regularly. > >I’ve heard this crap so often and then heard them turn around and > >contradict it directly to me, sometimes the same people on this group, > >in email rather than newsgroup, that I don’t believe a word of it > >anymore. > Oh bullshit. I gave up believing a word that you say long ago. The >overwhelming > majority of people do not hate their parents and you know it. You just make > this crapola up……and say it as fact……never proving any of it >because > you cannot. > Josie >I don’t even NEED to prove it, I simply wait for you to do so with your >excessive reaction to it, and then sit back and grin. >Steve

You ain’t even SEEN excessive from me yet…..so what are you babbling and grinning about? Josie

Response:

>> When you *accuse someone of hating their parents, what would be the >appropriate > response if, in fact, they do not…..denial perhaps? Please come up with > something better than the psycho-babble bullshit that flies around here >most > regularly. >I’ve heard this crap so often and then heard them turn around and >contradict it directly to me, sometimes the same people on this group, >in email rather than newsgroup, that I don’t believe a word of it >anymore.

Oh bullshit. I gave up believing a word that you say long ago. The overwhelming majority of people do not hate their parents and you know it. You just make this crapola up……and say it as fact……never proving any of it because you cannot. Josie

Response:

>> When you *accuse someone of hating their parents, what would be the >appropriate > response if, in fact, they do not…..denial perhaps? Please come up with > something better than the psycho-babble bullshit that flies around here >most > regularly. >I’ve heard this crap so often and then heard them turn around and >contradict it directly to me, sometimes the same people on this group, >in email rather than newsgroup, that I don’t believe a word of it anymore.

That is too bad. I would think that if a person felt this way about their childhood or life that actually talking about it consistently would be somewhat theraputic in letting it go. But, what is good for the goose is not always good for the gander Steve. I will say again, that I do not hate my parents, denial or not and leave it at that. >They could have actually thought the life through they were given and >decided what to think, instead of feeling what they assumed they were >supposed to feel. <snip>

I do feel bad for you. I always felt that I had parents who were new age (stupid expression by some standards and kind of to em as I look back on it) but they let me do a lot of my own thinking and then let me learn *alone* what the consequences were. Don’t get me wrong, they were always there…they just stood back a lot of times and let the chips fall. > I am not saying that my parents did not do irrational or ineffectual >things.

<snip> >But anybody can say that, and they do. Even people who dish the dirt >about their parents don’t do it constantly, they are schizophrenically >split in their opinion, in order to feel sometimes like they were more >loved than they actually feel they were.

I see this both ways. I think some do this and others do love their parents but were not satisfied with everything and talk about those things (which could be minute)….mabe even sometimes because that happens to be what the discussion is and for no other reason of motivation. >My parents were fairly liberal > even by today’s standards, so why would I feel a need to hate or even >resent > them in any way? >Maybe you don’t. If the shoe fits wear it. If not quit trying to jam it >on your foot. What I say I mean for multitudes.

If this is meant in general, fine. But, if it is meant to me…..logic dictates that when two people are having a conversation and one is saying what the other feels to be inaccurate, the former will express their disagreement to the later and vice versa. It is called discussion. >Believe me there are lots of things about > childhood (mine and others) that are negative, but I would like to think >that > if I am masking some great hate in my belly for one or both of them, I >would > know it myself. >One would think, wouldn’t one? >Steve

Again, yes, Steve. And bear in mind, that not all hold the resentment towards their parents that you do, fortunately. Just be glad that as an adult, you realize the significance of conviction and non-conforming to the rules and let it go at that. Cathy, Mom of Taylor 7, and Tiffany 4. To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart!

Response:

Angel again (my A key is wonky, bear with) > Angel here > I did a lot of time in the corner as a child myself. > Angel – your time in the corner did you a lot of harm.

Far less harm than some of the other methods. >Your parents passed > their unusual and rather extreme parenting methods and attitude to children > on to you, and now you are passing these on to your children.

I’m breking the cycle of abuse round here, but there are behavioral limits that must be observed. My daughter’s right to swing her arms ends where my son’s nose begins.  And there are days when they are at each ALL day.  And son is a shrieker. It’s to the point where if he shrieks at his sister, they both stand in the corner for 3 minutes.  It reduces the false alarms. The corner comes into play when sweet reason fails.  Most of the time, an appeal to their better nature works.  If it fails,  reminder that we are human, and humans don’t act that way.  Then comes the corner. >  They also > failed to give you skills to build trusting and happy relationships with > your children.  If I was you, I’d be very, very angry with them.

I refuse to be angry with my parents. Holding grduges is more damaging to the holder than the target.  I also have a very good relationship with my kids.  But, we are all fallible.  And sometime there are no natural consequences, so consequences must be imposed to teach the needed lesson. (Daughter has learned to play nicely with her own toys to avoid breaking them.  So she does her stress-analysis experiments on brother’s toys.  The natural consequences are minor: he yells.  But respect for other people’s things must be taught) > I’m not saying you are deliberately abusing your children – but if you are > able to watch your child suffer discomfort and humiliation then you need > to think hard about yourself and your relationship with them.  Most > parents couldn’t do this, because their instinct to protect their child is > so strong.

Life is suffering–Buddha Discomfort will always be a part of learning.  Algetics is totally necessary to development: mental, physical, social and emotional. If I couldn’t stand seeing them in discomfort, I would never get them shots, allow them to play, permit them to ride bicycle’s (daughter’s prticulrly vicious, likes to eat her pant leg), require them to dress, or insist they potty in the bathroom instead of in their pants. If I couldn’t see them humiliated, I would never allow them to attempt anything they might fail at, or participate in theatre (they might forget their lines) or open their mouths to talk (after all, son does have speech delays) > What you are doing is far worse than hitting them.  (And > hitting is bad enough…..)I gave it a try – it’s torture!  Possibly > harmful to developing joints, too.

Not the way I used to hit.  I gave it up.  I can’t control my temper once I get violent.  Corners separate the trouble makers from each other, giving me a chance to take a time out of my own to regain my composure.  The hands on the head is reserved for the worst repeat offenses. (the fifth fight in an hour, mom’s blood pressure is off the charts)   Most times, they are merely required to clapse their hands behind their backs.  Keeps them from playing with door hinges or otherwise distrcting themselves. > From the way you write, you seem to experience some satisfaction that you > can do this to your children.  Can that be right?

Does the phrase "tongue in cheek" mean anything? Apprently humorous exaggeration is lost in the translation. I don’t stand behind them, laughing manically, threatening them with the rack and Iron Maiden, or making them clean the moat with their tongues.  Siblings are not permitted to tease during this time. The humiliation is merely from knowing they blew it again and disppointed Mom and Dad. Yes, I use my corners.  No, I don’t like to see the kids stand in them. After they come out, we talk about why they had to stand there, and what thinking they did, as well as a plan for avoiding punishment again. > I know you didn’t specifically invite comments about the way you manage your > children, but please, please think about alternatives.

Like what?  A corner stand is  formalized time out.  We dock allownces set mounts for certain infractions.  If they lose the whole allowance and continue to make trouble, they work for me at the rate of $1/hour until the fines are paid. >  Even if you don’t > consider your extended family to be ‘abusive’, your children will benefit if > this cycle of  behaviour is broken.  Will you be happy to see your > grandchildren treated like this – not many grandmas would!

My mother prefers to see the kids stand in the corner than be beaten. We re breaking the cycle of sexual and physical abuse  (easy since the perps are dead, incarcerted, or divorced) right now.  But some training is necessary to make children into real human beings, as opposed to the dumb animals so many people are. We try to be positive and proactive but not every problem has a prearranged solution.  And crimes of passion (brother hitting) happen without much thought on anyone’s part. They do behave better with the rules laid down ahead of time, so we make sure the expectations are clear: We wlk forwrd in stores so we don’t bump into things. We use indoor voices indoors and in the car. We say please and thank you. We don’t hit, pester, or tease others or destroy their property. Simple rules.  Not unreasonble.  The last is the most commonly violated, nd we work on a case-by-case basis on those. It’s not like we make them march through Wal-Mart, hands atop their heads, echoing the cadence call. > There are plenty of other ways to manage children

lassos?  (We hve pictures of dh, bil and fil out throwing lassos, nd joke that nephew is the target) business meetings? (attn stockholders…) We use humor to defuse as mny situations as possible, nd let a lot of things pass. Think last resort. >- but if your parents > never showed you, you can’t be blamed for not using them.  Ask your > pediatrician, or a counsellor for advice.  (I wouldn’t, if I were you, > describe the punishments you use with quite so much relish, though – just a > thought….)

Missed the tongue in cheek part. Or maybe I forgot the mwhwhhah. > Love – and real concern

Teach me to forget my emoticons. The corner is no different than the small bench with "Time out" carved on the back.  They just can’t see the TV. And, you missed the sig. The key word is Evil. — Angel Evil Geniuses for a better Tomorrow http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Oaks/2590 Before you buy.

Response:

> >Denial. I wish I knew you personally so I could hear you diss them and >rat on you to yourself as me right now!! I see this constantly. The >first thing people becoming close friends tell each other is how much >they hate their parents’ guts. It’s a constant. > I do not hate my parents Steve. Is that the reason for *your* attitude?

"Gee, I don’t hate my parents, do you?": Cute and classic denial. I would have liked to have been raised by true paragons of liberal thought, but I had to put up with a couple who were mostly just fairly innocuous and ineffectual. But even so I was still quite lucky compared to most I hear from. > I quite > love my parents and appreciate all they have shown me. I pick and choose the > ideals and styles from theres that I like and ignore the ones I did not for my > own parenting go-around. > Cathy

Lots of people "love" their parent who also "hate their guts". These are NOT mutually exclusive, and people often seek to deny their unhappiness with the way they were raised in order to convince themselves that they are "happy enough". A marked number of you folks who write me privately, for example, are far more negative about it than you will admit on this newsgroup!! Steve

Response:

> Angel here > I did a lot of time in the corner as a child myself.

Angel – your time in the corner did you a lot of harm.  Your parents passed their unusual and rather extreme parenting methods and attitude to children on to you, and now you are passing these on to your children.  They also failed to give you skills to build trusting and happy relationships with your children.  If I was you, I’d be very, very angry with them. > I’m not saying you are deliberately abusing your children – but if you are > able to watch your child suffer discomfort and humiliation then you need > to think hard about yourself and your relationship with them.  Most > parents couldn’t do this, because their instinct to protect their child is > so strong.  What you are doing is far worse than hitting them.  (And > hitting is bad enough…..)I gave it a try – it’s torture!  Possibly > harmful to developing joints, too. > From the way you write, you seem to experience some satisfaction that you > can do this to your children.  Can that be right?

I know you didn’t specifically invite comments about the way you manage your children, but please, please think about alternatives.  Even if you don’t consider your extended family to be ‘abusive’, your children will benefit if this cycle of  behaviour is broken.  Will you be happy to see your grandchildren treated like this – not many grandmas would! There are plenty of other ways to manage children – but if your parents never showed you, you can’t be blamed for not using them.  Ask your pediatrician, or a counsellor for advice.  (I wouldn’t, if I were you, describe the punishments you use with quite so much relish, though – just a thought….) Love – and real concern Kay

Response:

> >Doesn’t sound like it’s really working then, does it? >Humiliation sets up patterns of response that will become >a resentment of you which will manifest in a far worse manner >later. > I might be the minority…but my parents used the corner technique and I did > not harbor any manifestations towards them over it. As a matter of fact, I look > back at it now as a time for me to cool down and take stock

Denial. I wish I knew you personally so I could hear you diss them and rat on you to yourself as me right now!! I see this constantly. The first thing people becoming close friends tell each other is how much they hate their parents’ guts. It’s a constant. > .>I can tell yours aren’t very old yet. What you’re doing doesn’t work >for teens, and turns into a hate battle. Better change now before that >happens. > Isn’t it obvious that in every aspect what works as a child does not work as a > teen?

Although it differs in implementation the way to treat small kids and teens and even your friends is all one thing, involving taking them seriously and granting them their autonomy and respecting their desires and trying to help them meet them. > You don’t give a 4 year old a curfew, you do not let a four year old > date…the same as you would not ask your teen to stop sucking their thumb > (well, let’s hope not). > Cathy

Neither do they want that. You’ve said nothing. Age wants what it needs. Trust that. Steve

Response:

>Denial. I wish I knew you personally so I could hear you diss them and >rat on you to yourself as me right now!! I see this constantly. The >first thing people becoming close friends tell each other is how much >they hate their parents’ guts. It’s a constant.

I do not hate my parents Steve. Is that the reason for *your* attitude? I quite love my parents and appreciate all they have shown me. I pick and choose the ideals and styles from theres that I like and ignore the ones I did not for my own parenting go-around. >Although it differs in implementation the way to treat small kids and >teens and even your friends is all one thing, involving taking them >seriously and granting them their autonomy and respecting their desires >and trying to help them meet them

I could not agree more. >Neither do they want that. You’ve said nothing. Age wants what it needs. >Trust that.

You just made my point for me. Cathy, Mom of Taylor 7, and Tiffany 4. To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart!

Response:

>> I did a lot of time in the corner as a child myself.

>Doesn’t sound like it’s really working then, does it? >Humiliation sets up patterns of response that will become >a resentment of you which will manifest in a far worse manner >later.

I might be the minority…but my parents used the corner technique and I did not harbor any manifestations towards them over it. As a matter of fact, I look back at it now as a time for me to cool down and take stock .>I can tell yours aren’t very old yet. What you’re doing doesn’t work >for teens, and turns into a hate battle. Better change now before that >happens.

Isn’t it obvious that in every aspect what works as a child does not work as a teen? You don’t give a 4 year old a curfew, you do not let a four year old date…the same as you would not ask your teen to stop sucking their thumb (well, let’s hope not). Cathy, Mom of Taylor 7, and Tiffany 4. To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Angel here > I did a lot of time in the corner as a child myself. > Corner discipline was currently used in my wife’s house (now she is 60 > ys old),and she and her younger sister were often put in the corner, > in > a very particular and distressing position > We favor the POW look of hands atop the head, elbows out. > They must face the corner and the timing doesn’t even start > until they do it right (no noise, facing the wall, > hands up).  No more than 1 minute per year of age. > Only the most severe offenses, hitting or fighting, > get the full time.

You will find that utilizing that time to communicate with them about it will have greater effect. All the corner business does is insult them. Wait till they refuse!! > That, combined with taxing the allowance, > seems to work beautifully. > The discomfort of the position, the > distress of missing whatever is going on, > and the sheer humiliation of the corner > seem to combine to prevent recidivism, > at least for a time. > Of course, there are days when I have three > corners occupied at once.

Doesn’t sound like it’s really working then, does it? Humiliation sets up patterns of response that will become a resentment of you which will manifest in a far worse manner later. >as punition or simply as > obedience training,till their marriage. > That’s a bit much.  Unless one is marrying them off at 15 or so. > After about 12, removal of privileges and > manual labor works better. > (Manual labor works as early as 5) > — > Angel

I can tell yours aren’t very old yet. What you’re doing doesn’t work for teens, and turns into a hate battle. Better change now before that happens. Steve

Response:

Angel here I did a lot of time in the corner as a child myself. > Corner discipline was currently used in my wife’s house (now she is 60 > ys old),and she and her younger sister were often put in the corner, in > a very particular and distressing position

We favor the POW look of hands atop the head, elbows out. They must face the corner and the timing doesn’t even start until they do it right (no noise, facing the wall, hands up).  No more than 1 minute per year of age. Only the most severe offenses, hitting or fighting, get the full time. That, combined with taxing the allowance, seems to work beautifully. The discomfort of the position, the distress of missing whatever is going on, and the sheer humiliation of the corner seem to combine to prevent recidivism, at least for a time. Of course, there are days when I have three corners occupied at once. >as punition or simply as > obedience training,till their marriage.

That’s a bit much.  Unless one is marrying them off at 15 or so. After about 12, removal of privileges and manual labor works better. (Manual labor works as early as 5) — Angel Evil Geniuses for a better Tomorrow http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Oaks/2590 Before you buy.

Response:

why do people keep playing along with him?  he only HAS one single strategy. He cusses out the parents, and says the kid isn’t getting enough sex.  Works every time. He really can’t go wrong. All parents tick kids off sometimes. All teens think they’re not getting enough sex.  This single one works every time on people like you.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Steve – > Why are you such an asshole?   You appear to have some brians.. why not use > them?  Soon enough, so many people will have you on their ignore list, it’s > just going to be you and Ben in here writing. > J. B. Chamberlin > ICQ # 1269371

Response:

Do you think children are in this world so that the parent can control them? Putting a child in a corner is  humiliating and robs a child of their dignity!!!! Talk to them, discuss why you don’t feel pleased with what they’ve done – reason with them! I think your archaic corner will become less and less necessary! Joe > Corner discipline was currently used in my wife’s house (now she is 60 > ys old),and she and her younger sister were often put in the corner, in > a very particular and distressing position as punition or simply as > obedience training,till their marriage.

Joe >Our two daughters  (now 25  and > 22) have been trained with the same ways, and so the sons of my wife’s > sister, and all are grown up quiets and well disciplined. I know that > the mayority of the readers of this newgroup think differently,but this > is our experience,and seems good. > Cassio

And when she puts you in the corner does she still bend you over and fuck you in the ass? I bet you love it. Steve

Response:

> Corner discipline was currently used in my wife’s house (now she is 60 > ys old),and she and her younger sister were often put in the corner, in > a very particular and distressing position as punition or simply as > obedience training,till their marriage.

Joe >Our two daughters  (now 25  and > 22) have been trained with the same ways, and so the sons of my wife’s > sister, and all are grown up quiets and well disciplined. I know that > the mayority of the readers of this newgroup think differently,but this > is our experience,and seems good. > Cassio

And when she puts you in the corner does she still bend you over and fuck you in the ass? I bet you love it. Steve

Response:

> Corner discipline was currently used in my wife’s house (now she is 60 > ys old),and she and her younger sister were often put in the corner, in > a very particular and distressing position as punition or simply as > obedience training,till their marriage. Our two daughters  (now 25  and > 22) have been trained with the same ways, and so the sons of my wife’s > sister, and all are grown up quiets and well disciplined. I know that > the mayority of the readers of this newgroup think differently,but this > is our experience,and seems good. > Cassio

And when she puts you in the corner does she still bend you over and fuck you in the ass? I bet you love it. Steve

Response:

All you "new parents" out there recognize this as a "public timeout" with the added element of humiliation.  This is more humane than a pop on the butt which is done and over with in seconds? Give me a break. Ben * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Steve – Why are you such an asshole?   You appear to have some brians.. why not use them?  Soon enough, so many people will have you on their ignore list, it’s just going to be you and Ben in here writing. J. B. Chamberlin ICQ # 1269371

Response:

Troll!  (And pervert!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Corner discipline was currently used in my wife’s house (now she is 60 > ys old),and she and her younger sister were often put in the corner, in > a very particular and distressing position as punition or simply as > obedience training,till their marriage.

Response:

Corner discipline was currently used in my wife’s house (now she is 60 ys old),and she and her younger sister were often put in the corner, in a very particular and distressing position as punition or simply as obedience training,till their marriage. Our two daughters  (now 25  and 22) have been trained with the same ways, and so the sons of my wife’s sister, and all are grown up quiets and well disciplined. I know that the mayority of the readers of this newgroup think differently,but this is our experience,and seems good. Cassio Before you buy.

Response: