Pure Parents

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Yes, I know that autism is an extreme example, but it is a *valid* >example.  You keep posting that everything about which people post >questions here is the result of abuse.  It’s not.  There are often other >factors, physical factors that can’t be ruled out. >– >Kitten > I agree with ya…..but even putting physical factors aside (there *are* many > other factors as well that play into tantrums)…..this man refuses to > acknowedge or even understand that children simply cannot be placed into his > warped *one size fits all* category. He simply doesn’t grasp that. It’s rather > pathetic. If a parent posts that their toddler pets the damn dog too roughly > and wonders what to do…..the Steverino is soon seen screaming, "THAT’S > BECAUSE YOU ABUSED YOUR CHILD IN SOME WAY, YOU ASSHOLE AND YOU DESERVE TO DIE"

Josie, you’re an idiot. If my child pulls a doggie’s ears he is told he is hurting the dog and kept away from it unless he can do it more gently. If you actually understood what I have said it would be amazing to me, as you seem invariably able to distort it beyond any resemblance of what was said. > The man just can’t see very how telling his own delusional paranoia about this > subject really is. ‘Course now…..the very same thing can be said about how he > groups up all adults on earth into his warped *one size fits all* category too.

When I ask for kindness and tolerance for all children YOU claim that I’m trying to stretch them or cut off their legs to make them fit in some mold!! How weird of you!! > However, with adults….he allows for at least 2 categories! (oh what joy!) > That 1 % who agrees with him are ever so enlightened….and deserving of > nothing but praise. The other 95 % are ALL sexually-repressed fundie Christian > brainwashed morons who are either rich capitalistic thieves or poor backward > trailer-park trash fools (no in-between, mind you)…….and who all are liars > or in denial…..but who nevertherless have ALL been previously TREMENDOUSLY > ABUSED.

Xtian fundy bigots would LIKE to imagine they are 95% of the rest of us, but that’s merely their delusion, as everyone but THEM seems to already know!! ;->   Hell, most Americans don’t even go to church!! > This latter 95 % is the group that needs to be *retrained* (my, how > Orwellian) OR exterminated quickly by tortureous murder in the streets of his > futuristic utopia…..because… (gasp)…..they might just be a threat to his > *new world order*. (why, even their *thoughts* are a threat…..now how > Orwellian is THAT?)

Your raving is amazingly ignorant. What amazes me is that people like you who feel internal guilt about your own parenting project onto me that I am some mega-parent who is apt to come and punish YOU for your abuses. If you’re afraid of "getting caught" for your abusive ignorance why don’t you simply stop abusing kids and you won’t have to worry about it? Instead you whine about some imagined and ever more fantastic future punishment, as though you’re wailing and gnashing your teeth at the sight of the hell that awaits you!! You people seem to need to be manaced by some kind of hell, that’s why you invented one for your weird little religion! ;-> > And I’m sorry…..can’t help it….but I just gotta say that now matter how > much the Steverino seems to *need* to brag about his 11/12 year old 5 ft > 7…170 pound.. hairy…weight lifting at 8 yrs old… sex-having at age 10 > with everybody… macho bravado self…..(I mean….come on guys, who doesn’t > get sick of *that*?)

You’re the kind who asks for details about people life experience and then complains that they’re bragging if what they tell you sounds better than YOUR life! ;-> >…just what the hell good did it really do him if he grew > up to have a 1 inch pea-brain in ordinary common damn sense?

What you think of as common sense I see as your favorite stubborn ignorance that you are terrified of being called to task about. Common nonsense is more what you’ve got! Steve

Response:

> > Tantrums are set up by ALL your PREVIOUS highhandedness toward her. For > her to think you pulling her off something truly dangerous was warranted > you would have to have ONLY done that when it was genuinely warranted, > and instead of anger you would have to have manifested fright. Kids > understand whether you just want your way or whether you’re frightened, > and even if they want something, if they see it truly frightens you they > will avoid it. You’ve cried "wolf" once too often and been a bully. > Steve > I have to disagree, Steve.  Perhaps you’ve never dealt with ADHD or > autistic children.  Many times they have very poor impulse control.

I admit that I have no specific experience of these disorders, but then we are also not sure of their origins either. The formation of the mind is a fragile process, and must surely rely in some large measure on the child’s experience of interrelationship. I fail to buy anyone who says that these particular children must be treated either dismissively, high-handedly, or especially be forced or hit or ignored. When other children respond so well to decent treatment, I would find anyone who suggested that we do otherwise with some certain kind of child to be quite suspect in their deep-seated motives and it set me wondering how much of this crap comes from unreported abuse at a critical developmental moment! Now I am sure that these tendencies are biochemical in nature, but it is now long known that thought changes biochemistry as much as biochemistry changes thought! What I question is why they are especially exacerbated in some particular children who are with some particular kinds of parents!! Also I wonder how many NORMAL kids have the biochemical markers which indicate they COULD be ADD/ADHD or whatever, but DO NOT BECOME SO, and what kind of parents do such children have who do NOT succumb to this behavioral difficulty!! I reject that such children should be treated yet WORSE than they already HAVE been, for all we know, in the dark recesses of the private parental abuse situation. There are too many unknown variables which people have a vested interest in the rest of us not being able to explore!!! > Even as you are calmly explaining to them, showing them that something > is dangerous, their impulse can often be extreme frustration/anger at > not being allowed to do "whatever".

Yes, but where does it COME from? A chemical is NOT a thought. Any difficulty they may have is not of one nature in their thoughts, but instead corresponds to many vague tendencies. We need to ask ourselves whether this kind of child simply does not do well when raised by a certain type of demanding parent, one with shrillness or who is quite demanding, or their impatience and TONE simply drives the kid NUTS!! This may yet be a product of some of the subtler abuse of children that I object to which so many of you find somehow "normal" (and you mean average). > My sister and I have to work *very* > hard to teach our children that certain things are to be avoided.  My > sister has a bit less luck with this than I do because her older > daughter is autistic and a climber, my youngest is "just" ADHD-Combined.

I distrust labeling a child when the other half of the child at that age, the parent, goes unlabeled and untreated! It looks just as ludicrous to me as for a computer repairman to try to find why a newbie keeps screwing their computer up by replacing the motherboard or the RAM!!! The newbie, which parents ALWAYS are, NEVER READ THE FUCKING MANUAL!! > An example:  Everyone watches out for my niece climbing.  She climbs > ladders, fences, etc… anything that goes high.  When she’s seen > climbing something, she’s calmly taken off with a *short* (*very* few > words!) explanation that she could fall and get hurt.  It *has* to be > done calmly or matters get worse.  Each time, she throws a fit because > she’s not being allowed to climb further.  One day when Mom was watching > her and her sister, she went out the back door to watch the birds.  Mom > knew exactly where she was and turned around to check on her little > sister.  In that brief bit of time, my niece climbed the stairs to the > 2nd floor balconey, then climbed from the balconey onto the roof, then > tried to climb down the front of the house from the roof.  She fell, > thankfully only skinning her nose.  She has now suffered the > consequences of her dangerous actions.  But she *still* throws a fit > when she’s taken down from a ladder, fence, etc.

How old? If they’re two you remove them true danger with apology, but you also give them opportunities to climb where you can watch and catch them. They may have a wonderful career as a gymnast or mountain climber in front of them!! > Yes, I know that autism is an extreme example, but it is a *valid* > example.  You keep posting that everything about which people post > questions here is the result of abuse.  It’s not.  There are often other > factors, physical factors that can’t be ruled out. > — > Kitten

Agreed, but just as any biochemical/physical handicap can be ameliorated with the proper equipment and treatment and opportunity, so the child with such problems may not respond to the current variety of idiotic overweening highhanded abuse that we currently call parenting!! They might not even fall into such habits with a parent who bothers to be innovative and tolerant and treat them with the honor for their feelings that they deserve! The more delicate a child’s emotional demeanor, the MORE consideration they deserve, NOT LESS!! The problem is that parents try this western authoritarian-abusive "Procrustean Bed" on ALL of them and THEN these parents get pissed off if the child is shown to be one who gets damaged more easily by that idiocy than other kids!! Ignorant. Any child who throws a fit IS being or has BEEN mistreated, period!! Animals simply do NOT do this for no reason, no matter HOW dodgey their brain chemistry!! Steve

Response:

>That 1 % who agrees with him are ever so enlightened….and deserving of >nothing but praise. The other 95 % are ALL sexually-repressed fundie >Christian >brainwashed morons who are either rich capitalistic thieves or poor backward >trailer-park trash fools (no in-between, mind you)…….and who all are >liars >or in denial…..but who nevertherless have ALL been previously TREMENDOUSLY >ABUSED.

Okay….okay….I meant to type *the other 99 %*. So I suck at math…..sue me. Least I have common sense. Josie

Response:

>Yes, I know that autism is an extreme example, but it is a *valid* >example.  You keep posting that everything about which people post >questions here is the result of abuse.  It’s not.  There are often other >factors, physical factors that can’t be ruled out. >– >Kitten

I agree with ya…..but even putting physical factors aside (there *are* many other factors as well that play into tantrums)…..this man refuses to acknowedge or even understand that children simply cannot be placed into his warped *one size fits all* category. He simply doesn’t grasp that. It’s rather pathetic. If a parent posts that their toddler pets the damn dog too roughly and wonders what to do…..the Steverino is soon seen screaming, "THAT’S BECAUSE YOU ABUSED YOUR CHILD IN SOME WAY, YOU ASSHOLE AND YOU DESERVE TO DIE" The man just can’t see very how telling his own delusional paranoia about this subject really is. ‘Course now…..the very same thing can be said about how he groups up all adults on earth into his warped *one size fits all* category too. However, with adults….he allows for at least 2 categories! (oh what joy!) That 1 % who agrees with him are ever so enlightened….and deserving of nothing but praise. The other 95 % are ALL sexually-repressed fundie Christian brainwashed morons who are either rich capitalistic thieves or poor backward trailer-park trash fools (no in-between, mind you)…….and who all are liars or in denial…..but who nevertherless have ALL been previously TREMENDOUSLY ABUSED. This latter 95 % is the group that needs to be *retrained* (my, how Orwellian) OR exterminated quickly by tortureous murder in the streets of his futuristic utopia…..because… (gasp)…..they might just be a threat to his *new world order*. (why, even their *thoughts* are a threat…..now how Orwellian is THAT?) And I’m sorry…..can’t help it….but I just gotta say that now matter how much the Steverino seems to *need* to brag about his 11/12 year old 5 ft 7…170 pound.. hairy…weight lifting at 8 yrs old… sex-having at age 10 with everybody… macho bravado self…..(I mean….come on guys, who doesn’t get sick of *that*?)…just what the hell good did it really do him if he grew up to have a 1 inch pea-brain in ordinary common damn sense? Go figure out the looney toons of the world though, right? Mickey fucking mouse makes more damn sense to me than such idiocy. (but hey….old Mick wasn’t a looney toon, was he? He was Disney) who actually preferred the merry melodies cartoons….being the cornball that she is and all.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > >Sooner, in fact, than the arrival of a tantrum.  Pay attention and keep > > >them feeling loved and important. > Always assuming the tantrum is due to lack of attention. > Yesterday I took my daughter to see a kiddies show. We had seats in the > front row of the balcony and she wanted to climb up on the wall. I wouldn’t > let her for obvious reasons and so a tantrum resulted – which was nothing to > do with attention or lack of just that she wanted her own way and I wouldn’t > let her have it as it was dangerous – she could easily have climbed on the > wall if she wanted to and it was a long drop on the other side. > Attention doesn’t always solve it either – if I try and pick her up when she > is having a tantrum she gets really angry. If I just say to her "have a > tantrum and tell me when you’ve finished" she almost always stops within a > few seconds. > Cheerio, > Karen > Tantrums are set up by ALL your PREVIOUS highhandedness toward her. For > her to think you pulling her off something truly dangerous was warranted > you would have to have ONLY done that when it was genuinely warranted, > and instead of anger you would have to have manifested fright. Kids > understand whether you just want your way or whether you’re frightened, > and even if they want something, if they see it truly frightens you they > will avoid it. You’ve cried "wolf" once too often and been a bully. > Steve

I have to disagree, Steve.  Perhaps you’ve never dealt with ADHD or autistic children.  Many times they have very poor impulse control. Even as you are calmly explaining to them, showing them that something is dangerous, their impulse can often be extreme frustration/anger at not being allowed to do "whatever".  My sister and I have to work *very* hard to teach our children that certain things are to be avoided.  My sister has a bit less luck with this than I do because her older daughter is autistic and a climber, my youngest is "just" ADHD-Combined. An example:  Everyone watches out for my niece climbing.  She climbs ladders, fences, etc… anything that goes high.  When she’s seen climbing something, she’s calmly taken off with a *short* (*very* few words!) explanation that she could fall and get hurt.  It *has* to be done calmly or matters get worse.  Each time, she throws a fit because she’s not being allowed to climb further.  One day when Mom was watching her and her sister, she went out the back door to watch the birds.  Mom knew exactly where she was and turned around to check on her little sister.  In that brief bit of time, my niece climbed the stairs to the 2nd floor balconey, then climbed from the balconey onto the roof, then tried to climb down the front of the house from the roof.  She fell, thankfully only skinning her nose.  She has now suffered the consequences of her dangerous actions.  But she *still* throws a fit when she’s taken down from a ladder, fence, etc. Yes, I know that autism is an extreme example, but it is a *valid* example.  You keep posting that everything about which people post questions here is the result of abuse.  It’s not.  There are often other factors, physical factors that can’t be ruled out. — Kitten = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = I’m a bitch, I’m a lover; I’m a child, I’m a mother I’m a sinner, I’m a saint; I do not feel ashamed I’m your hell, I’m you dream; I’m nothing in between You know you wouldn’t want it any other way                                                                       – – - Meredith Brooks

Response:

>> If they are seeking attention, why not give it to them?  The sooner, > the better. >Sooner, in fact, than the arrival of a tantrum.  Pay attention and keep >them feeling loved and important.

You’ve got it!!  

Response:

> >Sooner, in fact, than the arrival of a tantrum.  Pay attention and keep >them feeling loved and important.

Always assuming the tantrum is due to lack of attention. Yesterday I took my daughter to see a kiddies show. We had seats in the front row of the balcony and she wanted to climb up on the wall. I wouldn’t let her for obvious reasons and so a tantrum resulted – which was nothing to do with attention or lack of just that she wanted her own way and I wouldn’t let her have it as it was dangerous – she could easily have climbed on the wall if she wanted to and it was a long drop on the other side. Attention doesn’t always solve it either – if I try and pick her up when she is having a tantrum she gets really angry. If I just say to her "have a tantrum and tell me when you’ve finished" she almost always stops within a few seconds. Cheerio, Karen

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Sooner, in fact, than the arrival of a tantrum.  Pay attention and keep > >them feeling loved and important. > Always assuming the tantrum is due to lack of attention. > Yesterday I took my daughter to see a kiddies show. We had seats in the > front row of the balcony and she wanted to climb up on the wall. I wouldn’t > let her for obvious reasons and so a tantrum resulted – which was nothing to > do with attention or lack of just that she wanted her own way and I wouldn’t > let her have it as it was dangerous – she could easily have climbed on the > wall if she wanted to and it was a long drop on the other side. > Attention doesn’t always solve it either – if I try and pick her up when she > is having a tantrum she gets really angry. If I just say to her "have a > tantrum and tell me when you’ve finished" she almost always stops within a > few seconds. > Cheerio, > Karen

Tantrums are set up by ALL your PREVIOUS highhandedness toward her. For her to think you pulling her off something truly dangerous was warranted you would have to have ONLY done that when it was genuinely warranted, and instead of anger you would have to have manifested fright. Kids understand whether you just want your way or whether you’re frightened, and even if they want something, if they see it truly frightens you they will avoid it. You’ve cried "wolf" once too often and been a bully. Steve

Response:

> > I do not want to advocate >ignoring your kids, but giving them added attention at this time, >positive OR negative is exactly what they are seeking and giving it to >them will most likely encourage the tantrums. > If they are seeking attention, why not give it to them?  The sooner, > the better.

The thing that is being missed here is that they don’t WANT to throw a tantrum, they want the attention, the love, and if you give that to them they never have to descend totally into that tantrum-horror state. So if you treat them like their opinion is valuable they will never even HAVE a need to make such a disply or to become that upset by you wanting to disrespect them! What you call THEIR tantrum is a direct result of you treating them as less than human, and nothing else! So actually it’s YOUR tantrum, however subdued by adult subtleties!! Steve

Response:

> > I do not want to advocate >ignoring your kids, but giving them added attention at this time, >positive OR negative is exactly what they are seeking and giving it to >them will most likely encourage the tantrums. > If they are seeking attention, why not give it to them?  The sooner, > the better.

Sooner, in fact, than the arrival of a tantrum.  Pay attention and keep them feeling loved and important. Chris

Response:

> I do not want to advocate >ignoring your kids, but giving them added attention at this time, >positive OR negative is exactly what they are seeking and giving it to >them will most likely encourage the tantrums.

If they are seeking attention, why not give it to them?  The sooner, the better.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > My wife and I have 3 kids between us.  I have to say that the terrible > > twos is a misnomer and should easily extend into the threes.  One thing > > we do have a hold on though with all three kids is tantrums.  We have > > learned that, the bigger deal we make of it the bigger the tantrums will > > be and the more often they will occur.  I do not want to advocate > > ignoring your kids, but giving them added attention at this time, > > positive OR negative is exactly what they are seeking and giving it to > > them will most likely encourage the tantrums.  We simply make the > > statement that when they are done we will listen to what they have to > > say in "their" voice not their whinny voice. (actually this is a > > practical matter as well, as it is often extremely difficult to > > understand what they are saying while whining.  LOL)  We simply turned > > off the attention when the tantrums occur.  Another method we found > > effective with one child is to demonstrate a "proper" tantrum.  Not only > > was it funny, but he never did it again. Good luck. > Imitation isn’t bad as a tactic, but you have to combine that with > attention and holding and reassuring. Yes, if you HALF_ASSED respond > to a tantrum they might learn to try it again to see if you finally will > do the job properly, but once you DO it properly you will be doing what > needs to be done to prevent it. That means holding and reassuring and > talking about things. We did that so seamlessly that either ours didn’t > really go through the terible twos or else we didn’t notice! Kids only > throw a fit when their life feels like hell because they’re ignored. > Adults do similar things. > Steve > We never respond "half-assed" to anything when it comes to our kids.  They are > given attention to their needs as I mentioned before, but that holding and > listening happens after the tantrum is over when our kids can more effectively > tell us what the problem is.  We want to respond to the problem and its > causes, not the tantrum itself.  That is why we tell them that we will listen > to them when they are done.  It is an extremely effective way to show them > that what they have to say is important enough for them to say it clearly and > that they do not need to throw a tantrum to get the attention that they > deserve.  I agree with you about them needing our tender touch at those times, > but I think maybe you missed my point about waiting till they could better > communicate their troubles to us.

Tantrums don’t happen if you’re attentive to their onset and act appropriately with care and love. They only occur when you try to put off helping them. If you feel resentful to the way they start to react this is what causes such delays in responding properly. If you are sufficiently mature so that you don’t resent them, then it’s easy to forstall this by comforting them. Steve

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My wife and I have 3 kids between us.  I have to say that the terrible > twos is a misnomer and should easily extend into the threes.  One thing > we do have a hold on though with all three kids is tantrums.  We have > learned that, the bigger deal we make of it the bigger the tantrums will > be and the more often they will occur.  I do not want to advocate > ignoring your kids, but giving them added attention at this time, > positive OR negative is exactly what they are seeking and giving it to > them will most likely encourage the tantrums.  We simply make the > statement that when they are done we will listen to what they have to > say in "their" voice not their whinny voice. (actually this is a > practical matter as well, as it is often extremely difficult to > understand what they are saying while whining.  LOL)  We simply turned > off the attention when the tantrums occur.  Another method we found > effective with one child is to demonstrate a "proper" tantrum.  Not only > was it funny, but he never did it again. Good luck. > Imitation isn’t bad as a tactic, but you have to combine that with > attention and holding and reassuring. Yes, if you HALF_ASSED respond > to a tantrum they might learn to try it again to see if you finally will > do the job properly, but once you DO it properly you will be doing what > needs to be done to prevent it. That means holding and reassuring and > talking about things. We did that so seamlessly that either ours didn’t > really go through the terible twos or else we didn’t notice! Kids only > throw a fit when their life feels like hell because they’re ignored. > Adults do similar things. > Steve

We never respond "half-assed" to anything when it comes to our kids.  They are given attention to their needs as I mentioned before, but that holding and listening happens after the tantrum is over when our kids can more effectively tell us what the problem is.  We want to respond to the problem and its causes, not the tantrum itself.  That is why we tell them that we will listen to them when they are done.  It is an extremely effective way to show them that what they have to say is important enough for them to say it clearly and that they do not need to throw a tantrum to get the attention that they deserve.  I agree with you about them needing our tender touch at those times, but I think maybe you missed my point about waiting till they could better communicate their troubles to us.

Response:

<snipped> >  Another method we found > effective with one child is to demonstrate a "proper" tantrum.  Not only > was it funny, but he never did it again. Good luck.

LOL… sounds similar to what I did once or twice when YS threw a fit while we were driving down the road.  He was yelling for all he was worth, so I yelled right along with him.  Then I stopped yelling, laughed, and took a quick look at him.  He looked shocked that I could get louder than he did.  He yelled again, I yelled again, and he started laughing.  After a while, he got bored with the game. Kitten

Response:

*posted and mailed* > My 20 month old had just entered the lovely world of the terrible 2’s. Last > week he started having hellish tantrums and it is horrible. I was just > wondering if anyone had any expereinces to share or  advice for me? > TIA! > Nikki

Hi, Nikki. What worked with YS when he went through this phase was to tell him that if he needed to cry to do so in his bed and when he was ready to talk calmly about what was bothering him to come back out.  Most of the time, he would fall asleep within a couple of minutes.   It seems that most of his "tantrums" were a result of him being overly tired, something that tends to happen with extremely active children. He’s nearly 11yo now and he *still* gets wound up when he’s overly tired.  I still ask him to go to his room until he can calm down and discuss things calmly.  And if he seems overly upset, I’ll wait a minute or two, then join him, snuggle a bit, and wait for him to calm down enough to talk things over.  I do this with my step-kids, too, but it takes a bit more effort to get them to the talking stages since they didn’t experience this method of dealing with their issues when they were smaller. Hope this helps. Kitten

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My wife and I have 3 kids between us.  I have to say that the terrible > twos is a misnomer and should easily extend into the threes.  One thing > we do have a hold on though with all three kids is tantrums.  We have > learned that, the bigger deal we make of it the bigger the tantrums will > be and the more often they will occur.  I do not want to advocate > ignoring your kids, but giving them added attention at this time, > positive OR negative is exactly what they are seeking and giving it to > them will most likely encourage the tantrums.  We simply make the > statement that when they are done we will listen to what they have to > say in "their" voice not their whinny voice. (actually this is a > practical matter as well, as it is often extremely difficult to > understand what they are saying while whining.  LOL)  We simply turned > off the attention when the tantrums occur.  Another method we found > effective with one child is to demonstrate a "proper" tantrum.  Not only > was it funny, but he never did it again. Good luck.

Imitation isn’t bad as a tactic, but you have to combine that with attention and holding and reassuring. Yes, if you HALF_ASSED respond to a tantrum they might learn to try it again to see if you finally will do the job properly, but once you DO it properly you will be doing what needs to be done to prevent it. That means holding and reassuring and talking about things. We did that so seamlessly that either ours didn’t really go through the terible twos or else we didn’t notice! Kids only throw a fit when their life feels like hell because they’re ignored. Adults do similar things. Steve

Response:

> My 20 month old had just entered the lovely world of the terrible 2’s. Last > week he started having hellish tantrums and it is horrible. I was just > wondering if anyone had any expereinces to share or  advice for me? > TIA! > Nikki

An infant that age is being hard on himself. He needs comforting. This is a call for attention and DESERVES attention, NOT being isolated to continue his self-hate. Hold him. He’s upset. If he cried you would. He is at the point where he has learned to be mad at himself but not how to end that and love himself again, it’s up to you to model that!! Steve

Response:

It depends on why the tantrum is occurring. If it’s because he’s hungry or tired, then I’d try to calm him first (hug tight and speak in a low, comforting voice – say something like shhh, it’s okay), and then either get him down for a nap, or give him a snack. If it’s an ‘I want x’ tantrum, then I’d try to distract him – usually by dragging him away from the desired whatever, then calming him and then doing something else. With some kids, it might work better if you just ignore the tantrum – put him in his room until the tantrum stops, or move him to a carpeted floor where he can bang his head away all he wants. You have to see which is better for him (and you). I personally don’t think calming a kid down during a tantrum is giving in. If you give him what he wants – for example, he must have that Barney balloon and is having a fit because you said no, and then you buy it, that’s giving in. If you refuse it, but try to comfort him, that’s not giving in. Those emotions he is experiencing are real, and I think it’s kinder to at least recognize and validate those emotions – just don’t go ahead and buy whatever he wants because he’s having the tantrum. Heidi

Response:

> I’ve had my kids have tantrums where they bang their heads on the floor > so hard you think they will split their melons….but….I’ve learned to > just ignore them. As long as they aren’t "really" going to physically > harm themselves permanently, I’ve taken to just totally ignoring the > tantrum. Even in public places. The only exception is if we’re in a > sitdown restaurant or church and his behavior maybe annoying other > customers. Then I take him outside and let him throw his tantrum outside.

Pain may limit their action, but they are hurting, and it’s up to you to help them learn their way out of it!! Don’t desert them out of paranoia that "if you start doing it you’ll have to keep doing it for them". That’s NEVER true, but it’s the commonest form of mean-spirited adult paranoia of children!! More children STILL do that BECAUSE someone never cared enough to show them they were worth it, and they are stuck like a record in their personality for the lack of that attention! Every study says that spoiled kids are the ones who become adventurous and self-managing and that ignored children become the insecure and frightened adults. > IMHO a tantrum is a last resort for a kid to communicate their wants and > needs. Depending on your parenting style, giving in to tantrums means > you are saying a tantrum is exceptable behavior. A tantrum is not > expectable behavior in my "style book", so ignoring them totally seems > to have alleviated how many I actually have seen happen.

"Acceptable". And no, people don’t bang their head on the floor to test you. They are hurting themselves because they hate their life, and when an infant learns to do that he doesn’t also immediately learn how to stop hating himself, so you need to model that for him, hold him, talk to him softly and give him that attention you’re acting so miserly about!! This will FORESTALL trouble, not bring it on!! > The funny thing is I also have a 9 year old who has regressed to having > them again over issues of frustration, every now and then. I’m doing the > same thing with him…ignoring him. I think he is in need of me to show > my approval more often for his accomplishments…..which I should be > doing more often.

The issues of a nine year old are somewhat more complex. If his frustration is with your authority then you’d better back off, as this child turns into an adult some time next week, it seems like! Steve

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My wife and I have 3 kids between us.  I have to say that the terrible twos is a misnomer and should easily extend into the threes.  One thing we do have a hold on though with all three kids is tantrums.  We have learned that, the bigger deal we make of it the bigger the tantrums will be and the more often they will occur.  I do not want to advocate ignoring your kids, but giving them added attention at this time, positive OR negative is exactly what they are seeking and giving it to them will most likely encourage the tantrums.  We simply make the statement that when they are done we will listen to what they have to say in "their" voice not their whinny voice. (actually this is a practical matter as well, as it is often extremely difficult to understand what they are saying while whining.  LOL)  We simply turned off the attention when the tantrums occur.  Another method we found effective with one child is to demonstrate a "proper" tantrum.  Not only was it funny, but he never did it again. Good luck.

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> My 20 month old had just entered the lovely world of the terrible 2’s. > Last > week he started having hellish tantrums and it is horrible. I was just > wondering if anyone had any expereinces to share or  advice for me?

You posted the tantrums are hellish and horrible. It sounds like you mean they are this way for you not for your kid. I’ve had my kids have tantrums where they bang their heads on the floor so hard you think they will split their melons….but….I’ve learned to just ignore them. As long as they aren’t "really" going to physically harm themselves permanently, I’ve taken to just totally ignoring the tantrum. Even in public places. The only exception is if we’re in a sitdown restaurant or church and his behavior maybe annoying other customers. Then I take him outside and let him throw his tantrum outside. IMHO a tantrum is a last resort for a kid to communicate their wants and needs. Depending on your parenting style, giving in to tantrums means you are saying a tantrum is exceptable behavior. A tantrum is not expectable behavior in my "style book", so ignoring them totally seems to have alleviated how many I actually have seen happen. The funny thing is I also have a 9 year old who has regressed to having them again over issues of frustration, every now and then. I’m doing the same thing with him…ignoring him. I think he is in need of me to show my approval more often for his accomplishments…..which I should be doing more often.

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My 20 month old had just entered the lovely world of the terrible 2’s. Last week he started having hellish tantrums and it is horrible. I was just wondering if anyone had any expereinces to share or  advice for me? TIA! Nikki

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Well there can be different reasons for the tantrum.  Is the child tired? Does she/he want something?  Or is she/he just having a fit for no reason? After I work that out with my kids I handle it different ways.  If it’s my son, since he’s only 16 months old, I put him in his room for about 5 minutes.  He usually calms right down and plays quietly till I get him out again.  Or I put him down for a nap if he’s tired.  If he wants something sometimes my daughter helps me work that out.  Lol. Now my daughter, being 2.9 yrs old, is much harder to figure out.  If she’s tired I either try to get her to take a nap, or at least have quiet time in her room.  If she wants something I tell her I can’t understand her when she whines.  Or if it’s a tantrum for no reason I either ignore her, or put her in her room for 5-10 minutes.  She takes a bit longer to calm down but afterwards she says she’s sorry.  She seems to understand she needs to calm down.  Most of the time lately her tantrums are because she wants to watch a certain show and she doesn’t understand that I don’t decide when what shows are on.  Lol.  So I can compromise with a video or distract her with Play-doh or something. Good luck.  It does get easier when they can talk better.  At least then they can kind of tell you what the problem is or you can bargain with them. Later, Sophie

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