Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Thank you all for your replies. A common point you all made was that >she just may not be hungry at dinner time. I forgot to mention >however that she typically will be telling us prior to dinner that she >is hungry. So you would tend to think that it is the food we are >offering her that she doesn’t like. But as I stated previously we >have tried a variety of foods – stuff we *know* she likes, but after >one or two mouthfuls she’s not interested. > If you can talk to her, ask her why she doesn’t > want to eat. >We have tried that too. When we could get an answer, it was that she >wasn’t hungry, or didn’t like it, or she didn’t want dinner. By the >way, I mentioned previously how I served up her dinner cold the next >morning. Louise asked me to point out she always heats the food up >again if she is going to re-serve it, but doesn’t get any better >results. >Tonight we had dinner at Louise’s parents. Michelle was dished up >peas (she doesn’t like much), potato (she *does* like), and carrot >(not sure), with a little bit (so she would still be hungry) of >chicken (she loves). She ate the chicken, one or two pieces of >potato, and then sat and moped. Everybody finished and left the >table, and I left Michelle there, telling her if she ate some more >vegetables I’d give her more chicken. I came back a couple of times >and little or no progress had been made. The next time I came back >her grandfather was letting her off the hook – I didn’t interfere. >She was exceptionally playful and happy for the next hour or so. Then >she saw us having a biscuit with a cup of coffee and said she was >hungry. Louise gave her one biscuit (these are are rarely had in our >family), and Michelle continued to say she was hungry and wanted more >biscuits, which we denied.. Now that’s not surprising I suppose, but >long after the biscuits were gone she continued to say that she was >hungry (no mention of biscuits, just hungry). As we have done several >times previously, we told her that if she had eaten her dinner, she >wouldn’t be hungry. >Once again I welcome any further comments. >Wayne Ivory >Western Australia
I have four children and they have all had long periods of difficult eating, I also was a very difficult eater and the bringing back of past meals has put me off some foods twenty years on. The way I deal with mine is simple, the can leave what ever they want but they get no dessert if a good attempt to eat it hasn’t been made.They winge at first but after a few days of beening strong willed they get the message. If hungry later , can have as much wholemeal bread (with nothing on) as they desire. They usually last out a few weeks, but at least you know they are eating something healthy soon the thought of missing out on the afters is to much and they eat their food .
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Hi! New Mom-to-be here so I don’t have any children who face this problem (yet). BUT I use to be one of those incredibly picky eater children. Drove my Mom and Dad nuts until they came up with "the plan." Every week Mom and I would sit down and decide one food that I did not have to eat. I would pick the food and she would honor my wishes and not force me to eat that food ON THE CONDITION that I ate at least a little of everything else without complaint. She wouldn’t even serve me that week’s no-no food – even if everyone else was eating it. But as soon as I complained about eating the other food, all bets were off and I would lose the priveledge for awhile. It worked pretty well. I felt like a big girl because I decided what I would and would not eat. And dinner times weren’t such a big battle becasue we all new the rules. Granted, she tricked me into eating lima beans a few times when I had chosen spaghetti as my no-no food. But it seemed to work for us. Good luck!
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>It is remarkably common to repeat with our children what we experienced >as children. People who were spanked as children feel an irresistable >urge to spank their children. People who were force fed as children, feel >an irresistable urge to force feed their children.
Sorry, but I was spanked as a child, and occasionally spank my children. I was force fed milk as a child (never did like the stuff), and as a result will NEVER force my children to eat or drink anything they don’t like. It is oversimplification to blame every behaviour on one’s past experience. We have brains, and we use them to determine which past experiences are ones we want to repeat. In my case, the spanking was effective, and totally harmless to me, so I have repeated the behaviour as an adult. The force feeding of milk when I was a child causes me to gag at a glass of milk even today, so I have not repeated that behaviour. Life is not a black and white as some would like it to be… Pat
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:>It is remarkably common to repeat with our children what we experienced :>as children. People who were spanked as children feel an irresistable :>urge to spank their children. People who were force fed as children, feel :>an irresistable urge to force feed their children. :> :Sorry, but I was spanked as a child, and occasionally spank my children. I was :force fed milk as a child (never did like the stuff), and as a result will NEVER force :my children to eat or drink anything they don’t like. :It is oversimplification to blame every behaviour on one’s past experience. We :have brains, and we use them to determine which past experiences are ones we I agree. Not everyone repeats their childhood experience with their children, but it sure happens a lot. For some, the urge to repeat is very strong.
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Our 2.5 year-old Michelle is driving us nuts. Almost every night she refuses to eat her dinner. She will eat breakfast. She will eat lunch. But for some reason she puts on this performance about dinner. We have tried everything we can think of. We give her different foods – things we know she likes (she raves about chips – but lately she won’t even have those). We growl. We’ve smacked (don’t do this anymore though – not over dinner anyway). We send her to timeout. We send her to bed hungry. We coax her, coddle her, offer her treats if she finishes. (All these things have not been tried at the same time obviously. They were spread out over about 6 months.) A few people have said to us that if we let her get hungry enough she will eventually eat. "No kid is going to starve themselves" they said. So one night when she didn’t eat, we told her she was going to have it for breakfast. We covered it with Glad-Wrap and put it in the fridge. The next morning we dished it up to her (much to her dismay) and she refused to eat it (not overly surprising). So we just let her play, which she did happily. At lunch time the same meal was served up. Again she rejected it. Again she played quite happily. At dinner time it was served up again. Again she rejected it. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? This kid had not eaten for *over* 24 hours (remember she had not eaten dinner the night before, so her last meal had been the previous day’s lunch). The only thing she’d had in that time was a glass of milk. We gave up. We offered her some of the current night’s dinner. She had one potatoe! What other things can I tell you? She has a younger brother now 8 months old (yes, this did sort of start around the time he was born, but I don’t see why jealousy means eating breakfast and lunch but not dinner), she does not appear to be underweight, she has lots of toys, we take her to the park, beach or shopping when we can, and we tell her we love her and give her cuddles. Any advice (including constructive criticism) would be welcome. Wayne & Lousie Ivory Western Australia
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On 1996 May 28 Tuesday, Wayne and Louise Ivory wrote… : Our 2.5 year-old Michelle is driving us nuts. Almost every night she : refuses to eat her dinner. She will eat breakfast. She will eat : lunch. But for some reason she puts on this performance about dinner. : We have tried everything we can think of. We give her different foods : – things we know she likes (she raves about chips – but lately she : won’t even have those). We growl. We’ve smacked (don’t do this : anymore though – not over dinner anyway). We send her to timeout. We : send her to bed hungry. We coax her, coddle her, offer her treats if : she finishes. (All these things have not been tried at the same time : obviously. They were spread out over about 6 months.) I suggest: Check for food allergies, medical conditions. Don’t force her to eat dinner. Don’t punish her for not eating dinner, including not forcing her to eat dinner for breakfast. If you can talk to her, ask her why she doesn’t want to eat.
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Why is it so important to get your child to eat her dinner? She’s probably just not hungry. If she’s eating a well balanced breakfast and lunch (along with some snacks) it sounds like she’s doing fabulously. I know I wouldn’t want anyone to force me to eat if I wasn’t hungry (it might actually create a negative association with food which might harm your daughter later on in life). If someone tried to feed me cold, left over dinner (which I didn’t eat because I wasn’t hungry at the time) for breakfast the next day I wouldn’t eat it either! YUCK! It sounds like you are both raising a happy, well-adjusted daughter who eats well most of the time. Just try to put yourself in her shoes, don’t do anything to her that you wouldn’t want done to yourselves. If she’s not hungry – don’t make her eat. Would you eat cold mashed poatoes for breaky? Good Luck Pip
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >On 1996 May 28 Tuesday, Wayne and Louise Ivory wrote… >: Our 2.5 year-old Michelle is driving us nuts. Almost every night she >: refuses to eat her dinner. She will eat breakfast. She will eat >: lunch. But for some reason she puts on this performance about dinner. >: We have tried everything we can think of. We give her different foods >: – things we know she likes (she raves about chips – but lately she >: won’t even have those). We growl. We’ve smacked (don’t do this >: anymore though – not over dinner anyway). We send her to timeout. We >: send her to bed hungry. We coax her, coddle her, offer her treats if >: she finishes. (All these things have not been tried at the same time >: obviously. They were spread out over about 6 months.) >I suggest: > Check for food allergies, medical conditions. > Don’t force her to eat dinner. > Don’t punish her for not eating dinner, including > not forcing her to eat dinner for breakfast. > If you can talk to her, ask her why she doesn’t > want to eat.
I agree with that answer. Some people just have different biological clocks that make them hungry or not at different times. If she’s eating well at the other meals, is growing appropriately, and seems happy, don’t sweat the small stuff! Save your battles for the ones that count. If she’s hungry, she’ll eat. Marla Saunders Editor, Homelight
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I have this problem too! My 3 yr old daughter refuses to eat dinner. She too really puts on a fuss about it. We too have tried everything, mostly taking away a priviledge (not being able to watch her videotapes). Or I just ignore it, if she does not want to eat, fine. BUT…here’s the other problem: she will awaken in the middle of night complaining of hunger! and we go down in the middle of the night to eat (she will never go back to sleep without eating, she’ll cry and carry on that she’s hungry, plus since she eats so little to begin with, I let her eat when she says she’s hungry). THUS, now I back to trying to get her to eat dinner to avoid this middle of the night hunger-waking. Any suggestions/comments? email please…. Christine M. Dakes Mom to: _ _ Zakary Joseph 3/5/95 – "Tiger Cub" ( o ) _/ …And we’re livin’ here in Allentown, PA ^
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On 1996 May 30 Thursday, Christine M. Dakes wrote… : I have this problem too! My 3 yr old daughter refuses to eat dinner. : She too really puts on a fuss about it. We too have tried : everything, mostly taking away a priviledge (not being able to : watch her videotapes). Or I just ignore it, if she does not want to : eat, fine. : : BUT…here’s the other problem: she will awaken in the middle of night : complaining of hunger! and we go down in the middle of the night : to eat (she will never go back to sleep without eating, she’ll cry : and carry on that she’s hungry, plus since she eats so little to : begin with, I let her eat when she says she’s hungry). : : THUS, now I back to trying to get her to eat dinner to avoid this : middle of the night hunger-waking. How about some non-perishable snacks by her bed she can eat?
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>Our 2.5 year-old Michelle is driving us nuts. Almost every night she >refuses to eat her dinner. She will eat breakfast. She will eat >lunch. But for some reason she puts on this performance about dinner. >We have tried everything we can think of. We give her different foods >- things we know she likes (she raves about chips – but lately she >won’t even have those). We growl. We’ve smacked (don’t do this >anymore though – not over dinner anyway). We send her to timeout. We >send her to bed hungry. We coax her, coddle her, offer her treats if >she finishes. (All these things have not been tried at the same time >obviously. They were spread out over about 6 months.)
Your intent is to help her and to give her the nurishment she needs, don’t punish her. By punishing her you put a negative feeling around dinner. I guess I’d try to look at dinnertime and see what is different about it than lunch or breakfast. And if it’s nothing, maybe make lunch a more filling, lasting meal. Michael
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Our 2.5 year-old Michelle is driving us nuts. Almost every night she >refuses to eat her dinner. She will eat breakfast. She will eat >lunch. But for some reason she puts on this performance about dinner. >We have tried everything we can think of. We give her different foods >- things we know she likes (she raves about chips – but lately she >won’t even have those). We growl. We’ve smacked (don’t do this >anymore though – not over dinner anyway). We send her to timeout. We >send her to bed hungry. We coax her, coddle her, offer her treats if >she finishes. (All these things have not been tried at the same time >obviously. They were spread out over about 6 months.) >A few people have said to us that if we let her get hungry enough she >will eventually eat. "No kid is going to starve themselves" they >said. So one night when she didn’t eat, we told her she was going to >have it for breakfast. We covered it with Glad-Wrap and put it in the >fridge. The next morning we dished it up to her (much to her dismay) >and she refused to eat it (not overly surprising). So we just let her >play, which she did happily. At lunch time the same meal was served >up. Again she rejected it. Again she played quite happily. At >dinner time it was served up again. Again she rejected it. >HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? This kid had not eaten for *over* 24 hours >(remember she had not eaten dinner the night before, so her last meal >had been the previous day’s lunch). The only thing she’d had in that >time was a glass of milk. >We gave up. We offered her some of the current night’s dinner. She >had one potatoe! >What other things can I tell you? She has a younger brother now 8 >months old (yes, this did sort of start around the time he was born, >but I don’t see why jealousy means eating breakfast and lunch but not >dinner), she does not appear to be underweight, she has lots of toys, >we take her to the park, beach or shopping when we can, and we tell >her we love her and give her cuddles. >Any advice (including constructive criticism) would be welcome. >Wayne & Lousie Ivory >Western Australia
Hi! My 4 year old daughter had difficulty eating for awhile as well-although not quite the severity that you describe. I wonder if maybe you are trying too hard? Perhaps if you serve dinner at the regular time and ask her to sit with you-but don’t say anything about eating. Decide on an appropriate amount of time that she will need to sit with the family during the meal and then let her go when that time has passed. I have found that the more I commented on what my daughter ate/didn’t eat, the harder the struggle was! Unfortunately, eating is the one thing that kids seem to know parents can’t *make* them do. This is, of course, why it is so appealing! They have independence and the ability to choose for themselves what they will or won’t eat. So, in the end, if you make it appear that it no longer concerns you what she eats, she will probably start eating again on her own. Good luck! Kristi
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> Our 2.5 year-old Michelle is driving us nuts. Almost every night she > refuses to eat her dinner. She will eat breakfast. She will eat > lunch. But for some reason she puts on this performance about dinner. > We have tried everything we can think of. We give her different foods > – things we know she likes (she raves about chips – but lately she > won’t even have those). We growl. We’ve smacked (don’t do this > anymore though – not over dinner anyway). We send her to timeout. We > send her to bed hungry. We coax her, coddle her, offer her treats if > she finishes. (All these things have not been tried at the same time > obviously. They were spread out over about 6 months.)
Why are you trying to make her eat? Maybe she’s just not hungry in the evening. If she’s refused dinner, I doubt seriously that you are "sending her to bed hungry". I had a sister who ate one good meal a day, and just picked at the others, and she’s now a fine, healthy 25 year old with very healthy eating habits. As long as she’s not malnourished or underweight, trying to force her to eat when she doesn’t want to just sets up a power struggle, which is devestating to parenting. And this one she’s bound to win, unless you plan on moving her jaw and swallowing for her! I make our kids sit at the table with us, because I think learning the socialization and manners is important. I even make them accept plates that have food they don’t like on them (also a manners thing). I insist they finish food they’ve helped themselves to. Other than that, I never make them eat, though I will sometimes not allow them to eat between meals if they aren’t eating their regular meals. (That’s economics: snack food is more expensive, generally, than meal foods.) I *never* make them clean their plates. I try to be non judgemental about other people’s parenting choices, but, frankly, I think you are setting your daughter up for an eating disorder. Children (especially girls) whose parents tried to exert a great deal of control over when and what and how their kids eat are at high risk for anorexia, bulemia and compulsive overeating. My folks did a lot of the things you are trying. I learned to eat whether or not I was hungry, and to eat every thing that was put in front of me. I learned that being a "good eater" would make my father happy. I now weigh 240 lbs. (Down from 305 lbs last October! Yeah! But that’s another news group.) I also think serving the same plate of food for three meals is icky. *I* certainly wouldn’t want to eat it that way! In short: by all means, keep the family dinner hour, but keep it a happy time by respecting her ability, even at 2-1/2, to know her own body. Marie Houck.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Our 2.5 year-old Michelle is driving us nuts. Almost every night she >refuses to eat her dinner. She will eat breakfast. She will eat >lunch. But for some reason she puts on this performance about dinner. >We have tried everything we can think of. We give her different foods >- things we know she likes (she raves about chips – but lately she >won’t even have those). We growl. We’ve smacked (don’t do this >anymore though – not over dinner anyway). We send her to timeout. We >send her to bed hungry. We coax her, coddle her, offer her treats if >she finishes. (All these things have not been tried at the same time >obviously. They were spread out over about 6 months.) >A few people have said to us that if we let her get hungry enough she >will eventually eat. "No kid is going to starve themselves" they >said. So one night when she didn’t eat, we told her she was going to >have it for breakfast. We covered it with Glad-Wrap and put it in the >fridge. The next morning we dished it up to her (much to her dismay) >and she refused to eat it (not overly surprising). So we just let her >play, which she did happily. At lunch time the same meal was served >up. Again she rejected it. Again she played quite happily. At >dinner time it was served up again. Again she rejected it. >HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? This kid had not eaten for *over* 24 hours >(remember she had not eaten dinner the night before, so her last meal >had been the previous day’s lunch). The only thing she’d had in that >time was a glass of milk. >We gave up. We offered her some of the current night’s dinner. She >had one potatoe! >What other things can I tell you? She has a younger brother now 8 >months old (yes, this did sort of start around the time he was born, >but I don’t see why jealousy means eating breakfast and lunch but not >dinner), she does not appear to be underweight, she has lots of toys, >we take her to the park, beach or shopping when we can, and we tell >her we love her and give her cuddles. >Any advice (including constructive criticism) would be welcome. >Wayne & Lousie Ivory >Western Australia >Hi
I had the same problem and this solution worked for me. I put my daughter at the table beside me and gave her a fork and let her share my supper. After about two weeks she happily ate off her own plate. I think she thought it was a game! /Kim mother to Angela 14-09-94 and Chad 19-12-95 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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>: I have this problem too! My 3 yr old daughter refuses to eat dinner. >(Snip..Snip): >: BUT…here’s the other problem: she will awaken in the middle of night >: complaining of hunger! and we go down in the middle of the night (Snip..Snip) >How about some non-perishable snacks by her bed she can eat?
Perhaps she WANTS to wake up in the middle of the night and not eating dinner is just part of the game. As you probably have told her that she will be hungry at night if she doesn’t eat dinner she will be aware that being hungry is an excuse for making a fuss. I would try for a while to not mention the whole dinner fuss and give her the closeness at night she might be wanting (by shifting her bed into your room or let her sleep in your bed). Yes, she might get into the habit, but she will get out of it again as well if you’re relaxed about it. That doesn’t mean that you couldn’t still offer some snacks by the bedside.
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About kid not eating dinner. You say your child is eating breakfast and lunch: Are they good and healthy meals? Is she healthy? The "experts" say that children, if offered nutritionally well-balanced food, get the nutrients they need over a period of days. I wouldn’t worry about her missing dinner, but I would ask her to stay at the table and visit with the other members of the family who are eating. My 17 month old son eats hardly anything in the morning and only a bit in the afternoon, but at dinner he eats a lot! He is in excellent health. My 5 year old nephew eats a huge breakfast, a small lunch and no dinner (his parents were worried as well), yet he is very healthy too. Please don’t punish your child over food. My father did that and I still hold it against him. Our bodies know what they need. Good Luck! Deborah, breastfeeding mother who asks, "Why buy the cow’s when you can give the milk for free?"
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On 1996 Jun 01 Saturday, Deborahtay wrote… : Good Luck! : : Deborah, : breastfeeding mother who asks, "Why buy the cow’s when you can give the : milk for free?" <laughter> Cute.
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Thank you all for your replies. A common point you all made was that she just may not be hungry at dinner time. I forgot to mention however that she typically will be telling us prior to dinner that she is hungry. So you would tend to think that it is the food we are offering her that she doesn’t like. But as I stated previously we have tried a variety of foods – stuff we *know* she likes, but after one or two mouthfuls she’s not interested. > If you can talk to her, ask her why she doesn’t > want to eat.
We have tried that too. When we could get an answer, it was that she wasn’t hungry, or didn’t like it, or she didn’t want dinner. By the way, I mentioned previously how I served up her dinner cold the next morning. Louise asked me to point out she always heats the food up again if she is going to re-serve it, but doesn’t get any better results. Tonight we had dinner at Louise’s parents. Michelle was dished up peas (she doesn’t like much), potato (she *does* like), and carrot (not sure), with a little bit (so she would still be hungry) of chicken (she loves). She ate the chicken, one or two pieces of potato, and then sat and moped. Everybody finished and left the table, and I left Michelle there, telling her if she ate some more vegetables I’d give her more chicken. I came back a couple of times and little or no progress had been made. The next time I came back her grandfather was letting her off the hook – I didn’t interfere. She was exceptionally playful and happy for the next hour or so. Then she saw us having a biscuit with a cup of coffee and said she was hungry. Louise gave her one biscuit (these are are rarely had in our family), and Michelle continued to say she was hungry and wanted more biscuits, which we denied.. Now that’s not surprising I suppose, but long after the biscuits were gone she continued to say that she was hungry (no mention of biscuits, just hungry). As we have done several times previously, we told her that if she had eaten her dinner, she wouldn’t be hungry. Once again I welcome any further comments. Wayne Ivory Western Australia
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It sounds like you’re doing the right thing. Give your child choices for dinner (things she likes, new things etc.) and when she says she’s not hungry anymore that’s it …. no cookies…..no icecream etc. Grandparents can be a complete pain in the *ss sometimes. If she wakes up in the night hungry after this scenario I’d just leave some healthy, nonperisable snacks beside her bed (that she helped to choose). God, I dread the day when this starts happening to me (as I’m sure it will). Pip
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Thank you all for your replies. A common point you all made was that > she just may not be hungry at dinner time. I forgot to mention > however that she typically will be telling us prior to dinner that she > is hungry. So you would tend to think that it is the food we are > offering her that she doesn’t like. But as I stated previously we > have tried a variety of foods – stuff we *know* she likes, but after > one or two mouthfuls she’s not interested. > We have tried that too. When we could get an answer, it was that she > wasn’t hungry, or didn’t like it, or she didn’t want dinner. By the > way, I mentioned previously how I served up her dinner cold the next > morning. Louise asked me to point out she always heats the food up > again if she is going to re-serve it, but doesn’t get any better > results.
I’m surprised reheating the dinner didn’t work. I always used that trick when my kids were little. You know, they barely touched their dinner, but two hours later they were starving. At some point they will be hungry enough to eat. I would save each meal (covered with saran wrap) until the next meal. If they said they were hungry, that is what they were given. Most of the time, they either finished it up or they really weren’t hungry after all. Which could possibly be the case. Good luck. Gail
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Test message.
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:> :>Thank you all for your replies. A common point you all made was that You’re welcome. I admire your willingness to seek advice when you’ve exhausted all your ideas. Many parents just resort to spanking…the brute force problem solving style. While they coerce behavior on their chldren, which itself creates more problems, they leave the underlying issues completely untreated, which can then escalate in severity, especially when violence is added to those issues. :>> If you can talk to her, ask her why she doesn’t :>> want to eat. :> :>We have tried that too. When we could get an answer, it was that she :>wasn’t hungry, or didn’t like it, or she didn’t want dinner. By the Then I suggest letting her not eat. It occurs to me she just wants to be near you at the table. Children need lots of attention. Talking playfully to her while you are all at the dinner table would undoubtedly help meet her attention needs. :>way, I mentioned previously how I served up her dinner cold the next :>morning. Louise asked me to point out she always heats the food up :>again if she is going to re-serve it, but doesn’t get any better :>results. I say, don’t make a point to reserve the food, unless she wants it. I see nothing for which she should be disciplined. :>Tonight we had dinner at Louise’s parents. Michelle was dished up :>peas (she doesn’t like much), potato (she *does* like), and carrot :>(not sure), with a little bit (so she would still be hungry) of :>chicken (she loves). She ate the chicken, one or two pieces of It sounds to me like she just wants to be involved in what’s going on. I think she’s saying she’s hungry so she can be at the table with everyone else. I suggest letting her be at the table, but not forcing her to eat anything, not even a little bit.
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:I have four children and they have all had long periods of difficult :eating, I also was a very difficult eater and the bringing back of :past meals has put me off some foods twenty years on. The way I deal :with mine is simple, the can leave what ever they want but they get no :dessert if a good attempt to eat it hasn’t been made.They winge at :first but after a few days of beening strong willed they get the :message. If hungry later , can have as much wholemeal bread (with :nothing on) as they desire. They usually last out a few weeks, but at :least you know they are eating something healthy soon the thought of :missing out on the afters is to much and they eat their food . I suggest letting them eat what they want to eat when they want to eat it. I think they’ll tire of junk food and want healthy food. By forcing them to eat what you think they should eat, you are forcing them to ignore their own hunger signals (the BEST source of hunger information.) The result is they will never learn to trust their own bodily sensations. It is remarkably common to repeat with our children what we experienced as children. People who were spanked as children feel an irresistable urge to spank their children. People who were force fed as children, feel an irresistable urge to force feed their children.
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