Pure Parents

Question:

>       Each year, typhoid fever infects 16 million to 33 million people, >making most sick for about a month and killing about 600,000, mostly in >Southeast Asia. It is caused by eating food or drinking water >contaminated by feces.

Why not take the billions of dollars spent on developing the vaccines, and the more billions spent producing and administering the vaccines and simply get the shit out of the food and water? Seems to me you’re closing the barn door after the horse got out.  More profitable, but too intelligent. As for the 600,000 that die, chalk it up to allopathic medicine and their treatments that kill. Dr. C. PhD. "Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food." Hipp.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->No no no. This is not what the researchers and some MD’s are saying. Common >sense should tell you that children have reactions to even a single shot, >let >alone three in one. You don’t have kids Kirk. I have seen may kids have bad >reactions, swollen arms, fever and vomiting, my own included. >I’m sure that you would have had a fabulous time running daycare center(s) >with >a population of totally unvaccinated children.  You could have joyfully >taught >kids with polio about the dangers of the polio vaccine.  You could tell the >young’uns with TB that they should "check the teeth" And those poor kids with >the mumps could eat some apple seeds with Doofus_C. >Its a good thing that people without medical training don’t make medical >decisions for the general public

Way off base as usual. I have never stated that children shouldn’t be vaccinate. Many are concerned with the MMR and the three shots in one. That is what is being discussed. Your feeble attempt to trash Jan is just showing that you are your usual childish pest. Grow Up Jan

Response:

>No no no. This is not what the researchers and some MD’s are saying. Common >sense should tell you that children have reactions to even a single shot, let >alone three in one. You don’t have kids Kirk. I have seen may kids have bad >reactions, swollen arms, fever and vomiting, my own included.

I’m sure that you would have had a fabulous time running daycare center(s) with a population of totally unvaccinated children.  You could have joyfully taught kids with polio about the dangers of the polio vaccine.  You could tell the young’uns with TB that they should "check the teeth" And those poor kids with the mumps could eat some apple seeds with Doofus_C. Its a good thing that people without medical training don’t make medical decisions for the general public. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->If anything, breaking the MMR into components and administering them >separately >would be riskier, not only because the susceptibility to the diseases would >increase by postponing the administration of any given component, but the >child >would no doubt be administered more of the adjuvent/preservative components >that >anti vaccination kooks love to hate.  On one hand, anti vaccine activists >complain >that children are subjected to too many shots, on the other hand, they >vilify >combination shots with a proven safety record.  Go figure. >Many who totally disagree.

Yes, but those who disagree are usually paranoia mongerers who prey on the naive, gullible, & scientifically illiterate fools who have chips on their shoulder sabout how much MD’s make.

Response:

>Early-Warning Indicator for Autism >Jan, >The actual figure is about 1 in every 2000-3000 infants.

Says you. Proof please.  Still, Jan’s story Oooops another lie. It isn’t my story. >has more drama, more paranoia, and more pseudoscience, thus is more >compelling >to the gullible, naive, and scientifically illiterate. >The figure of one autistic infant for every 150 is now widely documented.

LOL. Make up your mind. >The actual figure is about 1 in every 2000-3000 infants.

Poor Andrew. Jan

Response:

Speaking of vaccinations, here is a new article on the subject. Vaccines ARE safe and effective and could save over 1/2 million lives from typhoid in southeast asia alone. rich BOSTON (Reuters) – Doctors in the United States and Vietnam have tested a vaccine for typhoid fever that appears for the first time to protect young children, offering a major advance in the battle against the deadly disease. According to a study published in Thursday’s New England Journal of Medicine, not only did the new vaccine work in more than 91.5 percent of youngsters ages 2 to 5, the symptoms in the few who became ill were less severe. And even a single dose appeared to offer better protection than any previous vaccine.        “Not only is this the first vaccine to protect young children against typhoid fever, it appears to be the most effective typhoid vaccine ever developed,” according to a statement from Dr. Duane Alexander, director of the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, which developed the vaccine. “And in contrast to other typhoid vaccines, it is virtually free of side effects.”        Each year, typhoid fever infects 16 million to 33 million people, making most sick for about a month and killing about 600,000, mostly in Southeast Asia. It is caused by eating food or drinking water contaminated by feces. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> **> > **>Part of the sales pitch is to claim > **>that they are not opposed to vaccination, but want people to make > **>informed choices. > and your problem with this is what ? ? ? > I actually wrote it, not Kirk, so I suppose I had better answer. > The problem is that, true to form, the anti-vacination liars are > lying. They are not in favour of informed consent, they are in favour > of no vaccinations at all. They say one thing and mean another. The > only information they give out  consists of lies and horror stories > (sometimes both at the same time). > Mad – Quintessence of the Loon http://www.ratbags.com/loon > Bad – The Millenium Project    http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles > Sad – Full Canvas Jacket       http://www.ratbags.com/ranters

Response:

>**> >**>Part of the sales pitch is to claim >**>that they are not opposed to vaccination, but want people to make >**>informed choices. >and your problem with this is what ? ? ?

I actually wrote it, not Kirk, so I suppose I had better answer. The problem is that, true to form, the anti-vacination liars are lying. They are not in favour of informed consent, they are in favour of no vaccinations at all. They say one thing and mean another. The only information they give out  consists of lies and horror stories (sometimes both at the same time). Mad – Quintessence of the Loon http://www.ratbags.com/loon Bad – The Millenium Project    http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Sad – Full Canvas Jacket       http://www.ratbags.com/ranters

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My my Peter, you are more negative than usual. This is not true at all. >Even > MD’s are concerned that the three in one shot is more than a child can >handle > at one time. >But the immunologists, epidemiologists, and other experts that spend their >living >looking at these things are not concerned.  The governmental panels that have >reviewed MMR in Canada, the UK, the US, Australia, and other countries are >not >concerned.

Big hairy deal. The ADA isn’t concerned about mercury amalgams either, but they are going to get sued and rightfully so. This country isn’t concered about all the needless mistakes and deaths either, enough to do something about it. I’m not impressed with government. There are MD’s who are concerned. I guess you have overlooked what happen in the UK. >The only country that might be concerned is Japan, who have had close to 100 >deaths from measles since dropping MMR and administering the vaccines >separately. >It’s only a matter of time before MMR coverage in the UK drops low enough for >outbreaks to occur.

That’s *your* opinion. You are soooo eager to endorse *anything* that the establishment does. Stevie Barrett’s right hand man. Barf. Jan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Kirk Kolas >Ontario Veterinary College >Class of 2002 >– >Curriculum Vitae: >http://www.uoguelph.ca/~kkolas/cv.html >A Closer Look at Hulda Clark: >http://www.uoguelph.ca/~kkolas/

Response:

>>One thing I can not understand, and perhaps somebody can fill me in on >this:  Why do MMR opponents feel that splitting the vaccine into it’s >components would be any safer?  I have yet to see a logical argument to >support this notion. >The objective of the anti-vaccination liars is to discourage people >from vaccinating their children. Part of the sales pitch is to claim >that they are not opposed to vaccination, but want people to make >informed choices.

My my Peter, you are more negative than usual. This is not true at all. Even MD’s are concerned that the three in one shot is more than a child can handle at one time. What pray tell is wrong with people making informed choices? A parent doesn’t have this right? Come down off your high horse. Jan <snip rest of Peter’s rant>

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >One thing I can not understand, and perhaps somebody can fill me in on > >this:  Why do MMR opponents feel that splitting the vaccine into it’s > >components would be any safer?  I have yet to see a logical argument to > >support this notion. > Simple. The three in one is too much for a child’s system. >This is exactly the response I expected.  There is simply no evidence that >the use >of a combination MMR vaccine poses any more risk than administering the >vaccine as >three separate doses.  The idea that "the immune system is over challenged" >by a >trivalent vaccine is nonsense.  The safety record of MMR, which is >administered >literally in the hundreds of millions of doses, is good.

No no no. This is not what the researchers and some MD’s are saying. Common sense should tell you that children have reactions to even a single shot, let alone three in one. You don’t have kids Kirk. I have seen may kids have bad reactions, swollen arms, fever and vomiting, my own included. >If anything, breaking the MMR into components and administering them >separately >would be riskier, not only because the susceptibility to the diseases would >increase by postponing the administration of any given component, but the >child >would no doubt be administered more of the adjuvent/preservative components >that >anti vaccination kooks love to hate.  On one hand, anti vaccine activists >complain >that children are subjected to too many shots, on the other hand, they vilify >combination shots with a proven safety record.  Go figure.

Many who totally disagree. >The idea that a 3 in 1 vaccine is "too much to handle" is absurd.  There are >plenty >of multivalent vaccines with excellent safety and efficacy records.

Bull. Jan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Kirk Kolas >Ontario Veterinary College >Class of 2002 >– >Curriculum Vitae: >http://www.uoguelph.ca/~kkolas/cv.html >A Closer Look at Hulda Clark: >http://www.uoguelph.ca/~kkolas/

Response:

**The idea that a 3 in 1 vaccine is "too much to handle" is absurd. says you. for many immature immune systems, it is certainly a possibility.

Response:

Kirk, Is there any basis in logic for other parts of their argument?  They are clutching at straws and desperately hoping that they will come off informed by waxing pseudoscientific, IMHO. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->One thing I can not understand, and perhaps somebody can fill me in on >this:  Why do MMR opponents feel that splitting the vaccine into it’s >components would be any safer?  I have yet to see a logical argument to >support this notion. >– >Kirk Kolas

Response:

Jan, The actual figure is about 1 in every 2000-3000 infants.  Still, Jan’s story has more drama, more paranoia, and more pseudoscience, thus is more compelling to the gullible, naive, and scientifically illiterate. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The figure of one autistic infant for every 150 is now widely documented.

Response:

**> **>Part of the sales pitch is to claim **>that they are not opposed to vaccination, but want people to make **>informed choices. and your problem with this is what ? ? ?

Response:

> My my Peter, you are more negative than usual. This is not true at all. Even > MD’s are concerned that the three in one shot is more than a child can handle > at one time.

But the immunologists, epidemiologists, and other experts that spend their living looking at these things are not concerned.  The governmental panels that have reviewed MMR in Canada, the UK, the US, Australia, and other countries are not concerned. The only country that might be concerned is Japan, who have had close to 100 deaths from measles since dropping MMR and administering the vaccines separately. It’s only a matter of time before MMR coverage in the UK drops low enough for outbreaks to occur. — Kirk Kolas Ontario Veterinary College Class of 2002 — Curriculum Vitae: http://www.uoguelph.ca/~kkolas/cv.html A Closer Look at Hulda Clark: http://www.uoguelph.ca/~kkolas/

Response:

> >One thing I can not understand, and perhaps somebody can fill me in on >this:  Why do MMR opponents feel that splitting the vaccine into it’s >components would be any safer?  I have yet to see a logical argument to >support this notion. > Simple. The three in one is too much for a child’s system.

This is exactly the response I expected.  There is simply no evidence that the use of a combination MMR vaccine poses any more risk than administering the vaccine as three separate doses.  The idea that "the immune system is over challenged" by a trivalent vaccine is nonsense.  The safety record of MMR, which is administered literally in the hundreds of millions of doses, is good. If anything, breaking the MMR into components and administering them separately would be riskier, not only because the susceptibility to the diseases would increase by postponing the administration of any given component, but the child would no doubt be administered more of the adjuvent/preservative components that anti vaccination kooks love to hate.  On one hand, anti vaccine activists complain that children are subjected to too many shots, on the other hand, they vilify combination shots with a proven safety record.  Go figure. The idea that a 3 in 1 vaccine is "too much to handle" is absurd.  There are plenty of multivalent vaccines with excellent safety and efficacy records. — Kirk Kolas Ontario Veterinary College Class of 2002 — Curriculum Vitae: http://www.uoguelph.ca/~kkolas/cv.html A Closer Look at Hulda Clark: http://www.uoguelph.ca/~kkolas/

Response:

>> There was an MD recently on Montel Williams who has a son with autism and >he does in fact believe the vaccination caused it. >If it was on Montel… it’s gotta be true!  

This remark wasn’t necessary Kirk. These were real people. One family had three kids who were austic. If you have ever watched Montel, you should know that he is a very good man with health problems of his own, and often features the health problems of others. If you think he has people making up stories you are wrong. This kind of quick judgment isn’t fair. This autism/MMR "link" would >be interesting if the data was more equivocal… but since Wakefield >raised this issue, there have been numerous epidemiological studies in >more than one country demonstrating that there is no link.  Until the >data shows otherwise, I am inclined to believe this. >One thing I can not understand, and perhaps somebody can fill me in on >this:  Why do MMR opponents feel that splitting the vaccine into it’s >components would be any safer?  I have yet to see a logical argument to >support this notion. >– >Kirk Kolas >Ontario Veterinary College >Class of 2002

Simple. The three in one is too much for a child’s system. Here is a post that was on sci med dentistry. I thought I had posted it here as well. Hope this helps. I for one believe the jury is still out. Jan Autism and Mercury by Tim O’Shea,DC This article is excerpted from Dr. O’Shea’s forthcoming revised edition of The Sanctity of Human Blood. Inquiry into vaccine safety is exploding like never before, even in the popular press. Research coming from dozens of mainstream medical studies can no longer be easily suppressed, as it has been in the past, especially with the prevalence of online information exchange. Last September, some 2,000 people, mostly MDs, assembled at the Town and Country resort in San Diego to hear the latest research on autism. Following the April 2000 Congressional hearings on autism and vaccines, this epidemic can no longer be ignored. The figure of one autistic infant for every 150 is now widely documented. Dr. Stephanie Cave presented enlightening data on mercury toxicity, drawn largely from the brilliant work of Sallie Bernard. Dr. Cave explained how: By age two, American children have received 237 micrograms of mercury through vaccines alone, which far exceeds current EPA "safe" levels of .1 mcg/kg. per day. That’s one-tenth of a microgram, not one microgram. Three days in particular may be singled out as spectacularly toxic for infants: Day of birth: hepatitis B-12 mcg mercury 30 x safe level At 4 months: DTaP and HiB on same day – 50 mcg mercury 60 x safe level At 6 months: Hep B, Polio – 62.5 mcg mercury 78 x safe level At 15 months the child receives another 50 mcg 41 x safe level These figures are calculated for an infant’s average weight in kilograms for each age. These one-day blasts of mercury are called "bolus doses". Although they far exceed "safe" levels, there has never been any research conducted on the toxicity of such bolus doses of mercury given to infants all these years. Inconceivable Historically, the toxicity of mercury has been known for more than a century. The Mad Hatter was more than a fantasy character from Alice in Wonderland. Mad Hatter’s disease became well known in England in the mid-1800s, when hat-makers were subject to inhaling the vapors from the mercury-based stiffening compound they used on felt to make top hats. Sources of Mercury It is interesting to learn that common household remedies that were used up into the 1960s like mercurochrome and "teething powder" were often the cause of acute mercury poisoning and disease. In the U.S., EPA mercury toxicity studies have involved contamination from fish, air, and other environmental sources. This is inorganic mercury (methylmercury). Methylmercury has long been associated with serious neurological disorders, demyelinating diseases, gut disease, and visual damage. The mercury in vaccines, however, is in the form of thimerosal, which is 50 times more toxic than plain old mercury (methylmercury). Reasons for this include: