Pure Parents

Question:

> >My children will be raised with love, but they will know to be polite, >respectful, morally correct, and Godly people.

Excuse me? My child is polite, respectful, morally correct, and I would venture to say she is even Christian, and I don’t have to smack her around to teach her these things. >In Him we are All Related

Too bad I have to be related to people who hit children. >And let us consider how we may Spur one another on toward Love and Good >Deeds. >Love Conquers All

*I* believe that, but apparently you believe that hitting people (and yes, children *are* people) smaller than you is what really conquers all. Love and Good Deeds,  hmmm, not love and brute force?  Interesting.  And don’t try to pull that "spare the rod" crap either.  I have a Bible too, and it does not say that ANYWHERE. Period. HM

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Until parents start >really loving their kids enough to spank, punish and raise their kids to >be >polite, respectful, moral kids the world will continue going in the >toilet >and its the parents fault.   >Unbelievable! I thought that I was the only one on this newsgroup to >believe that to spank your child is NOT wrong. >BTW, I am a christian and do not flame, it is unnecissary and childish. I >posted under a couple other subject headings about spanking and people >treated me like I was a child abuser. Which I am not, never will be. >My children will be raised with love, but they will know to be polite, >respectful, morally correct, and Godly people. >JMHO, >Kari >In Him we are All Related >And let us consider how we may Spur one another on toward Love and Good >Deeds. >Love Conquers All

Amen! Margaret

Response:

Personally .. (and i am NOT(!!)one to say that child abuse is ok.. FARRR from it) I think this whole abuse thing has gotten wayyy outta hand … i think it is a way for these psyche-"professionals" to make a buck ….. too many things are being called "abuse" now days, and we are forgetting and burying the real ABUSE that does happen … spanking is NOT abuse ….. HITTING a child IS ! It is too the point now, that if you do anything to the child, either someone someplace will scream "that is abuse" cus they dont like it, or they will tell the child sh/she is abused … come now you "professionals"… stop playing these games … maybe the "jig is up" on your racket !! enough is enough!!

Response:

>No. You’re both absolutely wrong. There is absolutely no way to >justify hitting a child, though you both seem to have strong >emotional need to hit children. I wonder where that comes >from? Where either of you spanked as children, by any chance?

yoipu, You obviously haven’t read my original post. I WAS spanked as a child-only a couple times, but it was enough to put fear into me so I would make the proper choices. I have no "strong emotional need to hit children", but I already know that my daughter will learn what is right and what is safe and if it means she occassionally gets a spanking,  she will. My feeling is I’d rather have her suffer the temporary pain of a spanking on the backside than the permanent pain of injuries caused by a car running into her, electricity running through her body, or something just as bad and dangerous.   By the way, why all this anger about spanking? Spanking IS different from beating…and don’t tell me it’s not…it is only that many people don’t know the difference. Stephanie-who doesn’t understand all the fuss about this spanking thing

Response:

: too many things are being called "abuse" now days, and we are : forgetting and burying the real ABUSE that does happen … I disagree. : spanking is NOT abuse ….. : HITTING a child IS ! A complete contradicion. : It is too the point now, that if you do anything to the child, either : someone someplace will scream "that is abuse" cus they dont like it, : or they will tell the child sh/she is abused … I’m not against parenting, boundaries, limits, consequences, etc.. I’m against consequences that have a negative impact on children. The degree to which a child is abused (spanking or otherwise) will determine the degree to which that child copes with the world, especially as an adult. The more abuse, the able to cope. Damaging someone’s self-esteem decreases their ability to cope with the world.

Response:

>Hi all,

 [stuff deleted] >  I’m sorry if this rattled on, but as I said, I had to get this off my >chest before I flamed someone but good. >  Oh, by the way, to all you folks out there who keep screaming abuse; >I’ve read a lot of you flaming advocates for spanking and then claiming >you’re Christians. Aren’t Christians supposed to be forgiving? Or are we >still living in the age of hell and damnation and fire and brimstone? >Ok, flame away as I know you all must…

No flame here, just a thank you for sharing with us your common sense. Lorraine

Response:

> I’m for spanking, not for beating.  I was wiped as a child when I did

Spanking *is* beating. Look it up.  What is wiped?? > wrong, and I have two children and three stepchildren that I’m raising and > when they do wrong, sometimes I punish and sometimes I spank.  I don’t > leave marks, but a paddle on the butt or a slap on the arm works.  

So would removing privileges, time-outs, and removing *yourself* when you get frustrated– which is obviously a big part of the problem here.  How do you expect your children to learn SELF control when you don’t exhibit any? > Parents these days wonder why kids get into so much more trouble now then > before, why is the pregnancy rate up, why are children not doing children > things.  I will tell you why–kids no longer fear punishment, they don’t

No, I’ll tell YOU why.  Children are being cared for by a myriad of caregivers other than their own parents. Some children are even coming home to an empty house instead of parental supervision.  When the parent is around all they can come up with to teach a child is violence in the form of "spankings."  This teaches children nothing other than more violence.  Kids don’t fear punishment because the parents aren’t even around to set boundaries and enforce those boundaries in a consistant and loving manner. Please don’t show your ignorance.  Go in to ANY inner city and observe the majority of parents in the low income high crime neighborhoods.  They are ALL spanked– repeatedly.  Obviously these kids will take attention from their parents in whatever form they can get it.   Gangs are a child’s attempt to replace the "family" that they have never known.  I realize that many parents *have* to work, and that many working parents do a fabulous job of parenting, but all too many of them are tired after a 10 hour workday, and the last thing they have is quality time with their children.  They are low on patience, and high on frustration, and in too many instances this is vented on their children, either verbally or physically.  Don’t pull that "kids aren’t spanked enough crap" without finding out that the TRUTH is the kids out causing trouble ARE spanked all the time. > the H___ they want to do with no repurcussions.  Look at todays world, and > look how parents are raising their kids theses days.  Until parents start

Yes, you just look at it.  Get a clue. > really loving their kids enough to spank, punish and raise their kids to be > polite, respectful, moral kids the world will continue going in the toilet > and its the parents fault.  

I would NEVER respect anyone who would hit me. Respect is earned.   Respect is modeled, as are manners, and morals.  It is the parents fault all right, parents like you who advocate violence as a solution to violence. > I was spanked as a child and so was my husband, we are both sucessful > adults and parents, it didn’t hurt our self esteem or scar us for life. I

No, it didn’t hurt your self-esteem. You just feel the need to hit defenseless children.  Obviously you have a wonderful self-esteem. > like kids are doing today.  Parents need to wake up and smell the roses. > They are the reason for the world  thats going to hell.

Yep, parents like you. > I love my children, and they know that, they are far from being abused.

Even the most battered children love their parents. And their parents claim to love them as well.   Mom2Peyton (12-20-94) * The key is to keep an open mind,  without  *   % Children are people, % * it being so open that your brain falls out.*   %   not possessions.   %

Response:

<snipped> > and if it means she occassionally gets a spanking,  she will. My feeling > is I’d rather have her suffer the temporary pain of a spanking on the > backside than the permanent pain of injuries caused by a car running into > her, electricity running through her body, or something just as bad and > dangerous.

My children will be able to decide through logic and good reasoning  and common sense what is dangerous and what is not, what is good and what is bad. This they will come by through example, role models and encouragement. They will question their decisions on their own merit, as real thinking persons, and not because "I might get another spanking". There will be consequenses when they do wrong, but they will not involve physical pain. They will be of a nature that will aid them in furthering their abilities to make good decisions as they grow and experience new things. The problem with spanking is this; if they don’t think they’re going to get caught, chances are the kid will take the chances. Even if they get caught, "the temporary pain of a spanking" (your words) is just that – temporary! If they know in their heart of hearts what they’re doing is wrong, and in their deepest conscience they will suffer for days and years to come if they don something "bad", then this is a far better deterrent to anything as violent as lashing out physically at a helpless child. It seems odd. By your examples above, you spank the child to instill in them that they may get hurt by a car or by electricity. Seems to me they would learn that playing with electricity gets them a spanking. Isn’t it better to teach them that electricity can KILL them? Until they’re old enough to learn this, you simply must keep them away from dangers like this. Once they can grasp the concept, teach them! >   By the way, why all this anger about spanking? Spanking IS different > from beating…and don’t tell me it’s not…it is only that many people > don’t know the difference.

Please, think long and hard about this and tell me exactly what the difference is between spanking and beating. Don’t fall back on the "spanking is done with love" nonsense. I mean, why is hitting your neighbour assault, but hitting your kids not. > Stephanie-who doesn’t understand all the fuss about this spanking thing

The fuss is many of us see societal violence getting its roots in the home. For example, spousal abusers almost always come from a home where there was spousal abuse, alcoholics, from alcoholic parents.The chain of violence must stop somewhere. Good Luck with the Parenting thing. . . Greg Lubianetzky Father to Teri, 7 years and Tom, 8 months

Response:

>Please, think long and hard about this and tell me exactly what the >difference is between spanking and beating. Don’t fall back on the >"spanking is done with love" nonsense. I mean, why is hitting your >neighbour assault, but hitting your kids not. > Stephanie-who doesn’t understand all the fuss about this spanking thing >The fuss is many of us see societal violence getting its roots in the >home. For example, spousal abusers almost always come from a home where >there was spousal abuse, alcoholics, from alcoholic parents.The chain of >violence must stop somewhere.

First off, Greg, I’m going to tell you that spanking IS done out of love…so there. Also, spanking

Response:

On 1996 May 28 Tuesday, LORA wrote… : I’m for spanking, not for beating.  I was wiped as a child when I did : wrong, and I have two children and three stepchildren that I’m raising and : when they do wrong, sometimes I punish and sometimes I spank.  I don’t : leave marks, but a paddle on the butt or a slap on the arm works.   So if a husband knows a way to beat his wife without leaving marks, then that is not technically abuse.

Response:

On 1996 May 29 Wednesday, KariBsPom wrote…

: : >Until parents start : >really loving their kids enough to spank, punish and raise their kids to Spanking isn’t about love, it’s about abuse. Until parents start loving their children enough to NOT spank them, kids will continue to disrespect adults and be violent in our society.

Response:

>Using this logic, just because a parent had sex with one of their >children, >doesn’t mean the child was sexually abused. >:

Hey, using any of the logic thrown about on the internet…you can make one thing seem like something else.  Is it that necessary to make something as simple as that so petty and inane? Susan

Response:

(snip)  Finally, someone who has woken up and realizes that the world is going to the toilet because of the lack of training, teaching, spanking, discipling, what-ever you want to call it, of our children!   Bravo! >Margaret

Hi Margaret!  BOY you are brave!  I’d like to shoot my mouth off again before another useless flame war gets started. I don’t think it’s so much a matter of not disciplining kids, its a matter of not keeping them productive (not busy, but PRODUCTIVE)._   This is a favorite topic of my mother and some of the neighbors, and they make some good points.  Up until the early part of this century   children and teens were expected to contribute to the family’s welfare to the best of their ability.  There was time to play, but it was much more limited time than now, and there were certainly less media distractions. In talking to my elders it appears there was just as much childhood and teenage angst as now, but people were too busy guaranteeing their physical comfort, in same cases survival, to give it much thought.  If someone didn’t pull their share of the load — even a very small one — the whole family suffered.  You don’t need to discipline if the kids are motivated by the bigger picture to learn how to be successful at caring for themselves (say what you will about the 7 yr. old girl who died flying the airplane — her mother was onto something by letting the kids determine what was useful to a successful life).  People married much earlier too (Grandma was considered an old maid at 18!  But she was considered eccentric anyway because she wanted a job teaching school). Kids now don’t have gardens to hoe, clothes to sew, food to can, animals to care for, or factories to work in.  *NO, I am NOT advocating a return to child labor here, and I’ll hunt down whoever takes this out of context and send that person daily inspirational messages to get even.*  But to get back to what I’m talking about, a kid was expected to know how to run a house and/or farm AND care for a family by the time he/she turned 16.  What pride and accomplishment my older friends feel at this feat — they don’t understand why today’s kids are still ACTING like kids at 16! Times have gotten very complex, and most people don’t have to depend on every hand in the house to get by in life.  We buy most of what we need instead of making it, so we lost an opportunity to  give our kids something productive to do and be proud of.  Instead of racking up accomplishments they can be point to with pride, our kids get lots of media input and media attention.  They just sort of hang out complaining about nothing to do and then go stir up some excitement, which may or may not be enjoyable for the rest of the community.  And those raging hormones!  The media sure as heck doesn’t teach responsible behaviour THERE. I really like what I’ve been seeing here in town lately, and I will share that.  In response to inroads from gangs in our area, our community recently started programs to get kids involved in volunteer activities like the food bank, elder care, and building low-income housing (a group from the middle school helped build a fence there last week).  It really paid off last month when a HUGE fire burned down the town’s main business.  Most of the town, inluding 2 nursing homes, had to be evacuated.  The highschoolers turned out in droves to help with the nursing home evacuations and the resettling of the old folks.  Made us all proud.  The housing project, which has had building help from all the schools in town, is not being targeted by vandals like some other building projects in town.  Pretty cool!   We have a very high percentage of church goers here, so the youth groups are busy and active with community projects as well. My girls do have their own little garden spot and have animals to feed.  Helps that I’m extremely allergic to rabbits, so Kylie can’t depend on me to cover her when she, uh, ‘forgets’.  Kylie wants to run the vacuum now, and it’s teaching her it’s easier to vacuum if you pick up your toys first!  She’s teaching her sister to pick up FOR her, which is not a great development — BUT —  Cami LIKES to put things back and is scared of the vacuum, so it’s developing into a good working relationship.  Kylie’s in 4H too,  a GREAT way to teach your kids all sorts of life lessons in a fun environment. Anyone else out there want to throw in their 2 cents? Rebecca

Response:

>  Oh, by the way, to all you folks out there who keep screaming abuse; >I’ve read a lot of you flaming advocates for spanking and then claiming >you’re Christians. Aren’t Christians supposed to be forgiving? Or are we >still living in the age of hell and damnation and fire and brimstone?

Hey, according to a fair chunk of those "spanking is abuse" advocates, not only are you an abused child…but your parents were obviously inept and should have never had children.  As well, you will probably develop a spanking fetish and beat the tar out of your children….and God forbid you have kids.   Actually, try posting your message in alt.parenting.spanking…then you’ll probably get the flame of your life. <grin> While I agree spanking isn’t necessary…it isn’t the "evil" some claim it is.  Just because you were spanked as a child does not make you a victim of abuse, and damn your parents for it.  <sigh>  Some of these people are worse than rabid right-to-lifers. As for Chrisitans supposed to be forgiving….that’s only if you are swayed to their way. Susan P.S.  If you do post in the alt.parenting.spanking…don’t be surprised if you get flamed, and if some of those who flame you don’t actually read the content of your message….just pick and choose inflammatory words.  However, there are some people in there who are more than willing to debate maturely.

Response:

I’m for spanking, not for beating.  I was wiped as a child when I did wrong, and I have two children and three stepchildren that I’m raising and when they do wrong, sometimes I punish and sometimes I spank.  I don’t leave marks, but a paddle on the butt or a slap on the arm works.   Parents these days wonder why kids get into so much more trouble now then before, why is the pregnancy rate up, why are children not doing children things.  I will tell you why–kids no longer fear punishment, they don’t respect their parents, they talk back, the are irresponsible and do what the H___ they want to do with no repurcussions.  Look at todays world, and look how parents are raising their kids theses days.  Until parents start really loving their kids enough to spank, punish and raise their kids to be polite, respectful, moral kids the world will continue going in the toilet and its the parents fault.   I was spanked as a child and so was my husband, we are both sucessful adults and parents, it didn’t hurt our self esteem or scar us for life. I thank my parents for whipping me and caring enough about me to punish me and spank me, I think I turned out pretty good, I never did drugs, I didn’t get pregnaut, I did the typical teenage things, but not the adult things like kids are doing today.  Parents need to wake up and smell the roses. They are the reason for the world  thats going to hell. I love my children, and they know that, they are far from being abused.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi all, >  I needed to just air this because I’ve been seeing all this crap going >back and forth about spanking and discipline: >  I was raise to believe that you got a spanking if you did something >wrong you knew you shouldn’t have or if you repeatedly did something >dangerous on purpose. I recieved several of these spanikings as a child >until I was about 7 years old. My friends and I were daring each other to >play chicken with the cars that passed by on the busy street near my >house. I knew it was dangerous, but at that time I was scared to "chicken >out" in front of my friends. Unfortunately for me, one of the cars I had >to play chicken with was my father’s car. He pulled in the driveway, told >me to get in the house and I got the spanking of a life time. All the >while my father was telling me that it was for my own good, I should have >known better, it was a stupid thing to do, etc, etc, etc. I never forgot >that spanking, but I never got another one after that day. I never did >anything that was remotely dangerous as a child because I lived in fear of >another spanking. >  I read in one post that fear is not a motivator but an inhibitor. As I >look back, I’m glad that fear inhibited my need for danger..I never drank >or rode with anyone who did. I never started smoking. I always made sure >my folks knew where I was when I was out.  Some people may think that that >sounds like a goody-two-shoes, but I don’t think I was inhibited in the >important things…I got good grades throughout school. I found safe >"outs" for  my need for thrills in rollercoasters and theater. I never >felt like I had been abused by my parents…yet everything I read in the >posts about spanking indicated that I was…Is this to say that children >throughout the millenia whose parents disciplines them with the hand were >all abused? I’m sorry folks, I don’t think so! >  I’m sorry if this rattled on, but as I said, I had to get this off my >chest before I flamed someone but good.

You were not abused.  Your parents loved you enough to make darn sure you knew what the boundaries were at a young age so you wouldn’t screw yourself up too much when got older. >  Oh, by the way, to all you folks out there who keep screaming abuse; >I’ve read a lot of you flaming advocates for spanking and then claiming >you’re Christians. Aren’t Christians supposed to be forgiving? Or are we >still living in the age of hell and damnation and fire and brimstone?

I am a Christian and I believe the bible teaches us that we need to chastise our children (spank) in order for them to grow up to be responsible and respect- ful adults.  I am a very forgiving person, but I can’t let my children run all over me without any consequences.  Some actions by children result in a spanking. >Ok, flame away as I know you all must…

Why do you think you should be flamed? Margaret

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I’m for spanking, not for beating.  I was wiped as a child when I did >wrong, and I have two children and three stepchildren that I’m raising and >when they do wrong, sometimes I punish and sometimes I spank.  I don’t >leave marks, but a paddle on the butt or a slap on the arm works.   >Parents these days wonder why kids get into so much more trouble now then >before, why is the pregnancy rate up, why are children not doing children >things.  I will tell you why–kids no longer fear punishment, they don’t >respect their parents, they talk back, the are irresponsible and do what >the H___ they want to do with no repurcussions.  Look at todays world, and >look how parents are raising their kids theses days.  Until parents start >really loving their kids enough to spank, punish and raise their kids to be >polite, respectful, moral kids the world will continue going in the toilet >and its the parents fault.  

YES!!!!!! You are absolutely right! >I was spanked as a child and so was my husband, we are both sucessful >adults and parents, it didn’t hurt our self esteem or scar us for life. I >thank my parents for whipping me and caring enough about me to punish me >and spank me, I think I turned out pretty good, I never did drugs, I didn’t >get pregnaut, I did the typical teenage things, but not the adult things >like kids are doing today.  Parents need to wake up and smell the roses. >They are the reason for the world  thats going to hell. >I love my children, and they know that, they are far from being abused.

Finally, someone who has woken up and realizes that the world is going to the toilet because of the lack of training, teaching, spanking, discipling, what- ever you want to call it, of our children!  Bravo! Margaret

Response:

>Until parents start >really loving their kids enough to spank, punish and raise their kids to be >polite, respectful, moral kids the world will continue going in the toilet >and its the parents fault.  

Unbelievable! I thought that I was the only one on this newsgroup to believe that to spank your child is NOT wrong. BTW, I am a christian and do not flame, it is unnecissary and childish. I posted under a couple other subject headings about spanking and people treated me like I was a child abuser. Which I am not, never will be. My children will be raised with love, but they will know to be polite, respectful, morally correct, and Godly people. JMHO, Kari In Him we are All Related And let us consider how we may Spur one another on toward Love and Good Deeds. Love Conquers All

Response:

On 1996 May 28 Tuesday, Kevin Shubert wrote… : : While I agree spanking isn’t necessary…it isn’t the "evil" some : claim it is.  Just because you were spanked as a child does not make : you a victim of abuse, and damn your parents for it.  <sigh>  Some of : these people are worse than rabid right-to-lifers. Using this logic, just because a parent had sex with one of their children, doesn’t mean the child was sexually abused. : : P.S.  If you do post in the alt.parenting.spanking…don’t be : surprised if you get flamed, and if some of those who flame you don’t : actually read the content of your message….just pick and choose : inflammatory words.  However, there are some people in there who are : more than willing to debate maturely. That’s good to know.

Response:

writes: : >Hi all, : >  I needed to just air this because I’ve been seeing all this crap going : >back and forth about spanking and discipline: : >  I was raise to believe that you got a spanking if you did something : : You were not abused.  Your parents loved you enough to make darn sure you : knew what the boundaries were at a young age so you wouldn’t screw yourself : up too much when got older. : I disagree. You were abused. You parents taught you that you don’t have any boundaries at all, that they could assault your body whenever you want to. Unspanked and healthily disciplined children learn they have boundaries such that no one, neither child, adult or parent, has the right to violate their body.

Response:

: >I’m for spanking, not for beating.  I was wiped as a child when I did : >wrong, and I have two children and three stepchildren that I’m raising and : >when they do wrong, sometimes I punish and sometimes I spank.  I don’t : >leave marks, but a paddle on the butt or a slap on the arm works.   : > : >Parents these days wonder why kids get into so much more trouble now then : >before, why is the pregnancy rate up, why are children not doing children : >things.  I will tell you why–kids no longer fear punishment, they don’t : >respect their parents, they talk back, the are irresponsible and do what : >the H___ they want to do with no repurcussions.  Look at todays world, and : >look how parents are raising their kids theses days.  Until parents start : >really loving their kids enough to spank, punish and raise their kids to be : >polite, respectful, moral kids the world will continue going in the toilet : >and its the parents fault.   : > : YES!!!!!! You are absolutely right! No. You’re both absolutely wrong. There is absolutely no way to justify hitting a child, though you both seem to have strong emotional need to hit children. I wonder where that comes from? Where either of you spanked as children, by any chance?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all, >   I needed to just air this because I’ve been seeing all this crap going > back and forth about spanking and discipline: >   I was raise to believe that you got a spanking if you did something > wrong you knew you shouldn’t have or if you repeatedly did something > dangerous on purpose. I recieved several of these spanikings as a child > until I was about 7 years old. My friends and I were daring each other to > play chicken with the cars that passed by on the busy street near my > house. I knew it was dangerous, but at that time I was scared to "chicken > out" in front of my friends. Unfortunately for me, one of the cars I had > to play chicken with was my father’s car. He pulled in the driveway, told > me to get in the house and I got the spanking of a life time. All the > while my father was telling me that it was for my own good, I should have > known better, it was a stupid thing to do, etc, etc, etc. I never forgot > that spanking, but I never got another one after that day. I never did > anything that was remotely dangerous as a child because I lived in fear of > another spanking.

No one can say from this one incident whether you were abused.  YOur father was clearly scared out of his wits and probably thought that what he was doing was right–taht was the way it was when we were kids.  I, too, was spanked, but I know that lots of times it as because my mother was frustrated, and not because it was "for my own good."  But I forgive her (yes, I am a Christian). But the most memorable "punishments" I received were non-violent ones that were thought out very well.  One was for stealing kool-aid when I was bout 4.  My mother did not spank me but got the money from my bank and made me go back and say I was sorry and pay for it.  I felt terrible.  I NEVER stole again, not even as a teenager when my friends were doing it just to see if they could do it.  I knew that my mother kept a close eye on how much money I had and she would notice if I came home with somethng I stole.  She would make me go back and admit what I did and I did not want to go through that again!  the other was when I about 6 and rode my bike farther away from the house than allowed.  My father warned me that if I did it again he would lock my bike up for a week.  I disobeyed and he locked it up.  Apparently this didn’t quite "take" because I did it again–he locked it up for two weeks that time.  I didn’t do it anymore. Both of these punishments involved forethought and were reasonable consequences for the behavior I had done.  Neither involved hollering or spanking, and both accomplished their goal. Kelly

Response:

On 1996 May 27 Monday, StephyBard wrote… :   I needed to just air this because I’ve been seeing all this crap going : back and forth about spanking and discipline: :   I was raise to believe that you got a spanking if you did something : wrong you knew you shouldn’t have or if you repeatedly did something : dangerous on purpose. I recieved several of these spanikings as a child : until I was about 7 years old. My friends and I were daring each other to Well I guess all the scientists should stop researching the effects of spanking. The official verdict has been handed down by Stephy’s off-handed analysis of his own childhood experiences.

Response:

> that spanking, but I never got another one after that day. I never did > anything that was remotely dangerous as a child because I lived in fear of > another spanking.

If hitting is so effective, then why does it ever have to be used more than once?? >   I read in one post that fear is not a motivator but an inhibitor. As I

The problem is hitting does not teach SELF- CONTROL!!! All of the situations you talk about in your post exhibited self-control.  Hitting teaches PARENTAL CONTROL.  To say that you did not drink or smoke because you got hit as a child is silly.  Apparently all the OTHER disciplining methods your family used were good ones, and so, no you were not "abused."  But you were hit for something dangerous, when there are still other effective consequences– for example you would have been grounded in MY house for such actions, which would have just as effectively stopped the behavior without using violence.  If you don’t think that it would have stopped the behavior as effectively, then I am sorry that you feel violence is the only way to communicate.  What if you had gone back to "playing chicken?"  Would he have hit you again? Would he have hit you harder?? THAT is the point that we are making when it comes to using violence to teach a behavior. > throughout the millenia whose parents disciplines them with the hand were > all abused? I’m sorry folks, I don’t think so!

Umm, no I would not say that all the children who had corporal punishment were abused, but I would say it had a definate NEGATIVE impact on society.  Look at the rates of violence in our society.  Do you think they have escalated to these proportions as a result of loving parents who have found alternatives to continuing the cycle of hitting children in the name of "teaching?"  Hardly.  They are the result of a continued ignorance on the part of many people that hitting does MUCH more harm than good.  "A society that advocates spanking of children can not then be suprised when those children use violence to vent anger and frustration."  I sure hope that as a parent you don’t fall for that "I’m okay and I was hit" crap.  I’m sure there are more than a few people who were raised in orphanages who turned out okay too, but you don’t hear them saying that orphanages are a good idea… Mom2Peyton (12-20-94) * The key is to keep an open mind,  without  *   % Children are people, % * it being so open that your brain falls out.*   %   not possessions.   %

Response:

Hi all,   I needed to just air this because I’ve been seeing all this crap going back and forth about spanking and discipline:   I was raise to believe that you got a spanking if you did something wrong you knew you shouldn’t have or if you repeatedly did something dangerous on purpose. I recieved several of these spanikings as a child until I was about 7 years old. My friends and I were daring each other to play chicken with the cars that passed by on the busy street near my house. I knew it was dangerous, but at that time I was scared to "chicken out" in front of my friends. Unfortunately for me, one of the cars I had to play chicken with was my father’s car. He pulled in the driveway, told me to get in the house and I got the spanking of a life time. All the while my father was telling me that it was for my own good, I should have known better, it was a stupid thing to do, etc, etc, etc. I never forgot that spanking, but I never got another one after that day. I never did anything that was remotely dangerous as a child because I lived in fear of another spanking.   I read in one post that fear is not a motivator but an inhibitor. As I look back, I’m glad that fear inhibited my need for danger..I never drank or rode with anyone who did. I never started smoking. I always made sure my folks knew where I was when I was out.  Some people may think that that sounds like a goody-two-shoes, but I don’t think I was inhibited in the important things…I got good grades throughout school. I found safe "outs" for  my need for thrills in rollercoasters and theater. I never felt like I had been abused by my parents…yet everything I read in the posts about spanking indicated that I was…Is this to say that children throughout the millenia whose parents disciplines them with the hand were all abused? I’m sorry folks, I don’t think so!   I’m sorry if this rattled on, but as I said, I had to get this off my chest before I flamed someone but good.   Oh, by the way, to all you folks out there who keep screaming abuse; I’ve read a lot of you flaming advocates for spanking and then claiming you’re Christians. Aren’t Christians supposed to be forgiving? Or are we still living in the age of hell and damnation and fire and brimstone? Ok, flame away as I know you all must…

Response: