Question:
GETTING A HEAD START ON CONTROL Special Thoughts on Raising Kids Lois Paul, Executive Director Help The Children Parents who want to gain control must first give away a little control. This means giving their children choices instead of demands whenever possible. One of the most-often asked questions about choices is, "At what age can I start giving choices instead of orders?" Foster W Cline, MD, psychiatrist and co-founder of the Cline/Fay Institute of Golden, Colorado, tells us we can start choices about the same time our little one can sit in a high chair and spit beets. Even if you no longer have a baby, Dr Cline’s advise may help you understand the need to offer choices. A useful tip for parents to remember is that battles over food in the early years are usually fought again – in the subconscious mind – when the person becomes an adult. Therefore, it’s unwise to have countless rules and battles about eating – whatever the child’s age. As soon as a baby spits food, the parents says, "Oh, goody. Meal’s over." The child is put down and the food is put away. Notice there are few words and NO anger. Some people object, "That’s too young. You can’t reason with a child at that age." Dr Cline says this objection assumes that the child is not as smart as the family dog. Isn’t it interesting that we expect the dog, who has no language skills, to understand but we want to wait until a child can talk before we think he or she can understand our actions? Parents and teachers often try to reason with children instead of allowing them to learn from consequences. Have you ever seen anyone try to reason with the family German Sheperd? "Now, Duke. Give me some eye contact so I can tell you what you just learned." We all know that would never work. A child learns quickly that negative behavior doesn’t pay. In the case of violating table rules, it takes only a few times for a child to learn the choices: eat nicely and have all you want or act out and bring the meal to a halt. To cap off this learning situation, the parent needs to hold his or her position that the next opportunity to eat will be the next meal time. This must be done with empathy: "That’s too bad. I get hungry too if I don’t eat enough when I have the chance. But don’t worry, we’ll be eating again soon." LET CONSEQUENCES, NOT WORDS, TEACH A CHILD. After you try this approach, I’d like to know the response from your child. Lois E Paul, Executive Director Voice (209) 478-5585 Help The Children FAX (209) 478-5586 41 West Yokuts Avenue, Suite 107 TDD/TTY (209) 478-5685 HTTP://www.adopting.org/htc.html Mother to Helene (27), Erica (25), Thiago (16), Andy (9) and grandmother to Joshua (5) and Jessica (5) - All Children Are Gifted…. They Just Open Their Presents At Different Times-
Response:
The first mistake is to depict parenting issues in terms of control and demands. The second mistake is to withhold food. The third mistake is to compare children with animals.
Response:
> GETTING A HEAD START ON CONTROL > Special Thoughts on Raising Kids > Lois Paul, Executive Director > Help The Children > Parents who want to gain control must first give away a > little control. This means giving their children choices > instead of demands whenever possible.
This makes sense, but your example is a whole ‘nother story… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> One of the most-often asked questions about choices is, "At > what age can I start giving choices instead of orders?" > Foster W Cline, MD, psychiatrist and co-founder of the > Cline/Fay Institute of Golden, Colorado, tells us we can > start choices about the same time our little one can sit in > a high chair and spit beets. Even if you no longer have a > baby, Dr Cline’s advise may help you understand the need to > offer choices. > A useful tip for parents to remember is that battles over > food in the early years are usually fought again – in the > subconscious mind – when the person becomes an adult. > Therefore, it’s unwise to have countless rules and battles > about eating – whatever the child’s age. > As soon as a baby spits food, the parents says, "Oh, goody. > Meal’s over." The child is put down and the food is put > away. Notice there are few words and NO anger. > Some people object, "That’s too young. You can’t reason > with a child at that age." Dr Cline says this objection > assumes that the child is not as smart as the family dog. > Isn’t it interesting that we expect the dog, who has no > language skills, to understand but we want to wait until a > child can talk before we think he or she can understand our > actions?
I’ve never tried to teach a dog table manners, nor an infant. If you are spoon feeding a child, she IS too young. Developmentally, she can’t understand and shouldn’t be expected to. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Parents and teachers often try to reason with children > instead of allowing them to learn from consequences. Have > you ever seen anyone try to reason with the family German > Sheperd? "Now, Duke. Give me some eye contact so I can > tell you what you just learned." We all know that would > never work. > A child learns quickly that negative behavior doesn’t pay. > In the case of violating table rules, it takes only a few > times for a child to learn the choices: eat nicely and > have all you want or act out and bring the meal to a halt. > To cap off this learning situation, the parent needs to > hold his or her position that the next opportunity to eat > will be the next meal time. This must be done with > empathy: "That’s too bad. I get hungry too if I don’t eat > enough when I have the chance. But don’t worry, we’ll be > eating again soon."
And this infant is going to understand the concept"soon"? I think not. This is not a choice, this is saying,"Eat the way I want you to or you can’t eat." Besides creating dysfunctional eating patterns by using food as a reward and witholding it as a punishment, you are holding unrealistic expectations for the child. Geez, babies are supposed to eat messily. My child has great table manners, learned from imitation and positive rein- forcement. And she knows how to eat when she is hungry and stop when she’s not, something most adults in this country were never taught. > LET CONSEQUENCES, NOT WORDS, TEACH A CHILD.
Yes! But make sure they are reasonable, developmentally appropriate consequences. And, by the way, what kind of education do you have in child develop- ment? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> After you try this approach, I’d like to know the response > from your child. > Lois E Paul, Executive Director Voice (209) 478-5585 > Help The Children FAX (209) 478-5586 > 41 West Yokuts Avenue, Suite 107 TDD/TTY (209) 478-5685 > HTTP://www.adopting.org/htc.html > Mother to Helene (27), Erica (25), Thiago (16), Andy (9) > and grandmother to Joshua (5) and Jessica (5) > - All Children Are Gifted…. > They Just Open Their Presents At Different Times-
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The first mistake is to depict parenting issues in terms of control and >demands. The second mistake is to withhold food. The third mistake is to >compare children with animals. >I agree. I particularly am concerned about the withholding of food. My son >is small (10th percentile) and not a good eater to begin with. Maybe he >would learn quickly to behave at the table if hungry enough with this method >and maybe he’d just lose weight.
Well, I look at food as a necessity for survival and not a reward for good behavior regardless of the age of the child. It also seems that with a child who is not a good eater to begin with, food isn’t very high on their list of desired rewards to begin with.
Response:
>The first mistake is to depict parenting issues in terms of control and >demands. The second mistake is to withhold food. The third mistake is to >compare children with animals.
I agree. I particularly am concerned about the withholding of food. My son is small (10th percentile) and not a good eater to begin with. Maybe he would learn quickly to behave at the table if hungry enough with this method and maybe he’d just lose weight. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
> > GETTING A HEAD START ON CONTROL > Special Thoughts on Raising Kids > Lois Paul, Executive Director > Help The Children
Daron: > Some people object, "That’s too young. You can’t reason > with a child at that age." Dr Cline says this objection > assumes that the child is not as smart as the family dog. > Isn’t it interesting that we expect the dog, who has no > language skills, to understand but we want to wait until a > child can talk before we think he or she can understand our > actions? > I’ve never tried to teach a dog table manners, nor an infant. If > you are spoon feeding a child, she IS too young. Developmentally, > she can’t understand and shouldn’t be expected to.
Daron – Please note that Dr Cline made the analogy to a dog not me. But I tend to agree. No one is talking about a very young infant but one who is old enough to throw food. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> A child learns quickly that negative behavior doesn’t pay. > In the case of violating table rules, it takes only a few > times for a child to learn the choices: eat nicely and > have all you want or act out and bring the meal to a halt. > To cap off this learning situation, the parent needs to > hold his or her position that the next opportunity to eat > will be the next meal time. This must be done with > empathy: "That’s too bad. I get hungry too if I don’t eat > enough when I have the chance. But don’t worry, we’ll be > eating again soon." > And this infant is going to understand the concept"soon"? I > think not. This is not a choice, this is saying,"Eat the way > I want you to or you can’t eat." Besides creating dysfunctional > eating patterns by using food as a reward and witholding it as
When a child is hungry, the child eats. When a child isn’t hungry, a child plays. And the child does NOT have to have perfect manners. But throwing or spitting food is unacceptable in most households (at least in mine). I take this type of behavior to mean the child is not hungry but probably tired or just not interested in eating. Therefore, the meal is over. > Yes! But make sure they are reasonable, developmentally appropriate > consequences.
Of course the developmental age has to be taken into account. Lois Lois E Paul, Executive Director Voice (209) 478-5585 Help The Children FAX (209) 478-5586 41 West Yokuts Avenue, Suite 107 TDD/TTY (209) 478-5685 HTTP://www.adopting.org/htc.html Mother to Helene (27), Erica (25), Thiago (16), Andy (9) and grandmother to Joshua (5) and Jessica (5) - All Children Are Gifted…. They Just Open Their Presents At Different Times-
Response:
> >The first mistake is to depict parenting issues in terms of control and >demands. The second mistake is to withhold food. The third mistake is to >compare children with animals. > I agree. I particularly am concerned about the withholding of food. My son > is small (10th percentile) and not a good eater to begin with. Maybe he > would learn quickly to behave at the table if hungry enough with this method > and maybe he’d just lose weight.
This may sound argumentative and I don’t intend it that way so please don’t get upset and start flaming. . Do you believe that a healthy child will eat when hungry and will not eat when not hungry? If you do, then it follows that you aren’t withholding anything from the child – the child is choosing not to eat. As for your child being small, perhaps its genetic or because of a problem I’m not aware of but in any case, you can’t force a child to eat if he or she isn’t hungry. That would just create a control battle that would make everyone miserable. When my own son was underweight and didn’t feel like eating, I would give him Ensure several times a day. That allowed me to get enough calories into him without trying to force him to eat when he didn’t want to. Lois
Response:
> > GETTING A HEAD START ON CONTROL > Special Thoughts on Raising Kids > Lois Paul, Executive Director > Help The Children
Daron: > Some people object, "That’s too young. You can’t reason > with a child at that age." Dr Cline says this objection > assumes that the child is not as smart as the family dog. > Isn’t it interesting that we expect the dog, who has no > language skills, to understand but we want to wait until a > child can talk before we think he or she can understand our > actions? > I’ve never tried to teach a dog table manners, nor an infant. If > you are spoon feeding a child, she IS too young. Developmentally, > she can’t understand and shouldn’t be expected to.
Daron – Please note that Dr Cline made the analogy to a dog not me. But I tend to agree. No one is talking about a very young infant but one who is old enough to throw food. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> A child learns quickly that negative behavior doesn’t pay. > In the case of violating table rules, it takes only a few > times for a child to learn the choices: eat nicely and > have all you want or act out and bring the meal to a halt. > To cap off this learning situation, the parent needs to > hold his or her position that the next opportunity to eat > will be the next meal time. This must be done with > empathy: "That’s too bad. I get hungry too if I don’t eat > enough when I have the chance. But don’t worry, we’ll be > eating again soon." > And this infant is going to understand the concept"soon"? I > think not. This is not a choice, this is saying,"Eat the way > I want you to or you can’t eat." Besides creating dysfunctional > eating patterns by using food as a reward and witholding it as
When a child is hungry, the child eats. When a child isn’t hungry, a child plays. And the child does NOT have to have perfect manners. But throwing or spitting food is unacceptable in most households (at least in mine). I take this type of behavior to mean the child is not hungry but probably tired or just not interested in eating. Therefore, the meal is over. > Yes! But make sure they are reasonable, developmentally appropriate > consequences.
Of course the developmental age has to be taken into account. Lois Lois E Paul, Executive Director Voice (209) 478-5585 Help The Children FAX (209) 478-5586 41 West Yokuts Avenue, Suite 107 TDD/TTY (209) 478-5685 HTTP://www.adopting.org/htc.html Mother to Helene (27), Erica (25), Thiago (16), Andy (9) and grandmother to Joshua (5) and Jessica (5) - All Children Are Gifted…. They Just Open Their Presents At Different Times-
Response:
> >The first mistake is to depict parenting issues in terms of control and >demands. The second mistake is to withhold food. The third mistake is to >compare children with animals. > I agree. I particularly am concerned about the withholding of food. My son > is small (10th percentile) and not a good eater to begin with. Maybe he > would learn quickly to behave at the table if hungry enough with this method > and maybe he’d just lose weight.
This may sound argumentative and I don’t intend it that way so please don’t get upset and start flaming.
Response:
Sarah, Absolutely! The article quoted Dr. Cline as saying that this technique is appropriate for babies and children and specifically says that the lesson can begin as soon as the baby can sit in a high chair and spit beets. It goes on to say that to top off the learning lesson, parents should not give in to pleas for food and simply say that the next mealtime will roll around soon enough. That constitutes withholding food and the article doesn’t clarify whether this "top off" applies to a specific age group or not. Thus it fails to take into consideration the fact that a baby so young simply does not have the cognitive ability to put together the sequence of events and the cause-effect relationship. So, I don’t see how a conclusion can be made that a baby is making a choice not to eat. Even a healthy child will not always eat when hungry. Perhaps they simply don’t like the food. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >No, the child is being put in a double bind so that he has no choice but to >eat in the manner you think appropriate or not at all. You are using food >as leverage to control your child, and and it is this sort of immoral >behaviour on the part of parents that causes the many eating disorders we >see in the population. Cultures where this sort of behaviour is absent do >not have anorexia, bulimia, and so on. >"Would you like to eat your food standing on you head [or in any other >manner I deem appropriate] or do you choose not to eat? It is *your >choice*." is a fallacious argument — a complex question, or "plurium >interrogationum" if you prefer — in which several questions are combined >into one in such a way that the child has no chance to give separate >replies to each. It is a parent’s way of appearing to give freedom whilst >actually denying it very effectively. It might be *more* coercive than more >directly coercive behaviour, because with straighforward coercion the child >might at least be able to see it for what it is. With this fake-choice >coercion, the child doesn’t stand a chance. It has nothing to do with >choice and everything to do with control. >Sarah Lawrence >Editor, *Taking Children Seriously* journal ISSN 1351-5381 >If you are interested in children’s autonomy, you may like to >subscribe to the "Taking Children Seriously" list. To do so, >subscribe TCS-list [YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS]
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi Lois: ><<<Do you believe that a healthy child will eat when hungry and will not eat >when not hungry? If you do, then it follows that you aren’t withholding >anything from the child – the child is choosing not to eat. ><<< When my own son was underweight and didn’t feel like eating, I >would give him Ensure several times a day. That allowed me to get enough >calories into him without trying to force him to eat when he didn’t want to. >Lois >**** If you gave him Ensure, then you weren’t REALLY withholding food (b/c you >did give him SOMETHING). >Ruth 
This is true but I didn’t fight with him over eating solid foods either which would have created another problem. Lois
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