Pure Parents

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Yes, it is a baby’s nature to cry.  But what I think the original >poster was refering to extended crying.  I’ve known some parents who >try to let a child "cry it out" to get to sleep and have a baby crying >for over an hour.  It is not a baby’s nature to cry for extended >periods of time. > It was in my baby’s nature.  Ever heard of ‘colic’? Many babies have > periods of VERYYYYYYYY extended crying, for NO DISCERNABLE reason > during the newborn period. > In my opinion, baby’s cry because they need >something.  To let a child cry for fifteen and twenty minutes is not >meeting his needs. > I didn’t let her cry, she cried without my permission.  I was holding > her, rocking her, feeding her, changing her, etc. but she still cried. > She didn’t give a hoot whether I let her or not. I was certainly trying > to meet her needs, but if there was a need that wasn’t being met I > never found out what it was.  When she was 4 months old she stopped. >> Excessive amounts of "self sacrifice" attract attention. Your child > is >>going to cry >>sometimes, wether you sit up with him all night of not. >If you provide a few minutes attention when the crying begins, >you could very well end the crying right there without sitting up with >him all night. > Or maybe you will do all that and she will STILL cry almost all night. > Just because your baby stops crying when you give her attention DOES > NOT MEAN ALL BABIES DO.  That does not mean parents ‘let’ the baby cry. > There is no ‘let’ about it.  You cannot discipline a 3 month old. > Enid >Jennifer, Katelyn’s mom>

My wife & I listened to the school of "let the baby cry herself to sleep sometimes" at first.  She has proven many times that she can outlast either of us.  At six months old, she is proving that she has a mind of her own and won’t take any of this psychology flack from either of us. Ken

Response:

I’m sure I’m going to get blasted for this, but… My first child, a boy, had an intolerance to dairy products that we didn’t find out about for almost 2 months.  We would ask our doctor about the fact that he spit up a lot (and I mean A LOT- most of what he ate, sometimes) and always had the runs.  The doctor said not to worry about it. Niko would cry and want to eat about every 2 hours- all night long. And all day long, too.  I was breastfeeding, for the most part- and he would jerk his head away and SCREAM.  Noting I did made him happy. Then I bought a battery-powered infant swing.  I would feed him, burp him, and put him in the swing- then lie down on the couch next to the swing, where I could see and hear him.  He would fall asleep quickly- but when I tried to remove him from the swing, he would scream as soon as he was lying down, whether in my arms or on his bed. No one had ever told us about the "gas" drops you can buy- simethicone.  They break up the gas bubbles in teh baby’s stomach and make it easier for them to burp.  Best of all, they’re harmless to the baby. Between the drops and the swing, I finally started getting a little bit of sleep at night- and then I was calmer and more relaxed, more able to care for my son. Now we’re on our second child- and we figure she probably has a milk intolerance as well, so we aren’t taking any chances.  But she has a different problem- she doesn’t poop.  Ever.  I’ve talked to the doctor numerous times (two different doctors, in fact) and they say that it is "normal" for a breast-fed baby to go as long as 10 days without a bowel movement. Well, I tried it once- let her go 10 days to see if she would poop on her own.  She didn’t.  So it’s back to the glycerine suppositories every four days or so.  Otherwise, after a couple of days, she gets VERY cranky- but then again, who can blame her? I’ve been at the end of my rope with both kids-  at the point where all I could do was cry right along with them, because I was so exhausted and frustrated.  I’ve found that the swing really helps- no annoying "tick" like a regular swing (which startled our son and woke him up) and it runs around 100 hours on two "D" batteries.  I keep the swing in my bedroom now, along with my daughter’s bed, and if I can’t get her to sleep after nursing and changing and burping and holding, she goes into the swing for a while. And before anyone lectures me about "neglecting" my kids- I am within easy sight (and just out of reach) of them all night, and I’m a very light sleeper.  And my son is now almost 3, and one of the brightest, most outgoing and loving children that I’ve seen…  ’SYNTAX ERROR IN UNDEFINED LINE’

Response:

>helping an eight month old sleep through >(or almost through) the night?  

This is the right time to start teaching the child to soothe herself/himself to sleep.  If you are rocking the child to sleep, STOP! Put the child down awake with comfort items (thumb, blanket, doll) and let the child get comfortable falling asleep without your contact.   When the child wakes at night (and we ALL DO, at least 5 times per night) they will be less freaked by the solitude and be more likely to just drift back to sleep, UNLESS they are really hungry or uncomfortable in which case you get to feed and change him/her.  Do it with as little stimulation and fanfare as possible.  Then put them back down awake.  If they cry, come back after a few minutes and say: "Oh, you’re OK.  Good.  Nighttime is for sleeping.  I’m going back to bed.  See you in the morning.  I love you." At this point you walk out without looking back and get a few hours sleep.   – Ron Low Levity is the dearth of gravity.  Brevity is the height of clarity.  

Response:

>It was in my baby’s nature.  Ever heard of ‘colic’? Many babies have >periods of VERYYYYYYYY extended crying, for NO DISCERNABLE reason >during the newborn period.  

First of all, the original poster was not talking about a newborn. If you are going to jump into the middle of a post IN ALL CAPS with your panties in a huff, then get the facts straight. >I didn’t let her cry, she cried without my permission.  I was holding >her, rocking her, feeding her, changing her, etc. but she still cried. >She didn’t give a hoot whether I let her or not. I was certainly trying >to meet her needs, but if there was a need that wasn’t being met I >never found out what it was.  When she was 4 months old she stopped.

If you notice, I was responding to Elaine, who did not understand why parents didn’t just let their children "cry it out."  I said parents were just trying to meet the needs of their children, which is exactly what you are saying here. <snipping some of Elaine’s post out since Enid mixed it all together> >If you provide a few minutes attention when the crying begins, >you could very well end the crying right there without sitting up with >him all night.   >Or maybe you will do all that and she will STILL cry almost all night. >Just because your baby stops crying when you give her attention DOES >NOT MEAN ALL BABIES DO.  That does not mean parents ‘let’ the baby cry. >There is no ‘let’ about it.  You cannot discipline a 3 month old.

I was not talking about discipline in any way, shape, or form.  Did you know that the part in RED is what the original poster wrote (see your stuff above?) and the BLACK is a response…  I was not saying that giving attention will stop a baby from crying (which is why I said "could very well end the crying" not "will end the crying").  You missed the whole point of the post, which was that some parents do not want to hear their children cry without responding at all, and it doesn’t make them feel like they are sacrificing to the point of resentment.  So, the phrase "let a baby cry" was meant as the baby cried with no response from the parent.  If you are going to blast me, Enid, then please at least do it intelligently. Jennifer, Katelyn’s mom

Response:

>Yes, it is a baby’s nature to cry.  But what I think the original >poster was refering to extended crying.  I’ve known some parents who >try to let a child "cry it out" to get to sleep and have a baby crying >for over an hour.  It is not a baby’s nature to cry for extended >periods of time.

It was in my baby’s nature.  Ever heard of ‘colic’? Many babies have periods of VERYYYYYYYY extended crying, for NO DISCERNABLE reason during the newborn period.   > In my opinion, baby’s cry because they need >something.  To let a child cry for fifteen and twenty minutes is not >meeting his needs.

I didn’t let her cry, she cried without my permission.  I was holding her, rocking her, feeding her, changing her, etc. but she still cried. She didn’t give a hoot whether I let her or not. I was certainly trying to meet her needs, but if there was a need that wasn’t being met I never found out what it was.  When she was 4 months old she stopped. > Excessive amounts of "self sacrifice" attract attention. Your child is >going to cry >sometimes, wether you sit up with him all night of not. >If you provide a few minutes attention when the crying begins, >you could very well end the crying right there without sitting up with >him all night.  

Or maybe you will do all that and she will STILL cry almost all night. Just because your baby stops crying when you give her attention DOES NOT MEAN ALL BABIES DO.  That does not mean parents ‘let’ the baby cry. There is no ‘let’ about it.  You cannot discipline a 3 month old. Enid – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Jennifer, Katelyn’s mom>

Response:

>Does anyone have any ideas on helping an eight month old sleep through >(or almost through) the night?  I love my son and I absolutely will not >allow him to "cry it out".  There has to be a better way.

Keep in mind that the more elaborate the bedtime routine is, the more difficulty the child will have putting himself back to sleep if he wakes up in the middle of the night. If a child is rocked to sleep, they are going to need rocking if they wake up at 3am.  Work toward putting you child down still awake, and letting him fall asleep without physical help from you.(Rocking,backrubbing,etc.)

Response:

> it makes me real suspicious of a parent who can’t stand to hear their >child cry. Like what is REALLY going on? Babies cry. It’s the nature of >being a baby.

Yes, it is a baby’s nature to cry.  But what I think the original poster was refering to extended crying.  I’ve known some parents who try to let a child "cry it out" to get to sleep and have a baby crying for over an hour.  It is not a baby’s nature to cry for extended periods of time.  In my opinion, baby’s cry because they need something.  To let a child cry for fifteen and twenty minutes is not meeting his needs. > Excessive amounts of "self sacrifice" attract attention. Your child is >going to cry >sometimes, wether you sit up with him all night of not.

If you provide a few minutes attention when the crying begins, you could very well end the crying right there without sitting up with him all night.  Plus, IMO, staying up with a child all night sometimes is not excessive amounts of self sacrifice.  It is part of being a parent.  When it comes to that, being a parent is self sacrifice. > The psychology book states that overprotective parents are really >harboring guilt over some resentment they have toward the baby. They go on >to "sacrifice" in ways that the child never asked for, and doesn’t really >benefit from anyway. It’s a sort of way that they can cover up or >compensate for their true feelings.

I don’t think trying to meet a child’s needs constitutes being overprotective.  I think the rest of this statement is really reaching. > These parents then go on to hold the "sacrifice" over the child’s head >forever (after sitting up with you for 10 years straight, THIS is how you >treat me?)  Like you’re billing him for a service that he never >contracted.

I have heard of parents that feel this way toward their children and treat their children this way, but not because they had to sit up with them.  I don’t see how you draw your conclusions.  If a parent doesn’t want to hear their child cry and cry and cry when they know they can help, how does that lead to resentment and bad relationships later in life?  I don’t think crying for even half an hour is normal.  I think that means my child needs me, and I am going to try and meet her needs.  If that makes me overprotective, so be it, but I doubt I will be "billing" him for it later Jennifer, Katelyn’s mom> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->– >Elaine Gallegos

Response:

: Does anyone have any ideas on helping an eight month old sleep through : (or almost through) the night?  I love my son and I absolutely will not : allow him to "cry it out".  There has to be a better way.  it makes me real suspicious of a parent who can’t stand to hear their child cry. Like what is REALLY going on? Babies cry. It’s the nature of being a baby.  Excessive amounts of "self sacrifice" attract attention. Your child is going to cry sometimes, wether you sit up with him all night of not.  The psychology book states that overprotective parents are really harboring guilt over some resentment they have toward the baby. They go on to "sacrifice" in ways that the child never asked for, and doesn’t really benefit from anyway. It’s a sort of way that they can cover up or compensate for their true feelings.  These parents then go on to hold the "sacrifice" over the child’s head forever (after sitting up with you for 10 years straight, THIS is how you treat me?)  Like you’re billing him for a service that he never contracted. — Elaine Gallegos

Response:

Firstly Tim and Stephanie, >: Does anyone have any ideas on helping an eight month old sleep through >: (or almost through) the night?  I love my son and I absolutely will not >: allow him to "cry it out".  There has to be a better way.

What is it your son needs at this time – is he still nursing?  About this age onwards I tried this.  I would ALWAYS respond to my babies cries (teaching them that if they needed me I was there – the world is safe – you are important – you are not alone).  If my child was really distressed or sick then I would pick them up but if not then just speak quietly, cuddle them while standing if they are standing, then lay them down.  I would stroke his/her back and hair and if necessary sit by them till they dropped back off.  Yes – often tiring work but worth it.  I tried not to get into the habit of picking her/him up straight away in order to give the message – time for bed.  Some people find taking the child back to their own bed really nurturing but I had trouble sleeping with them after about 3 months. Sleep deprevation can be so hard to cope with.  Can you get sleep during the day?  If you have a partner – can you take turns at night? It’s hard to know what an 8 month needs in the night and as you say teething may be the reason.  He may just becoming aware of the outside world and noises etc. since 6-9 months is also the time of stranger anxiety stage.  I have three children and they all went through wakeful times at one time or another – it really doesn’t last though it may not seem like it at the time. If you want more help that support your belief of not leaving your child to cry then the ng Alt.parenting.attachment might be of some help.  You won’t find any genuine reader there suggesting that to you. Good luck. Pam Elaine , You wrote > it makes me real suspicious of a parent who can’t stand to hear their >child cry. Like what is REALLY going on? Babies cry. It’s the nature of >being a baby.

Here we go again – babies cry because they need something – not because they are a baby!  Babies are human beings with human feelings and human needs. Our job as parents is to respond to the need of the child and by doing this teach the child to respond to itself. Personally I wonder what is going on for a parent that is not affected by their own childs crying at all!   > Excessive amounts of "self sacrifice" attract attention. >Your child is going to cry >sometimes, wether you sit up with him all night of not. > The psychology book states that overprotective parents are really >harboring guilt over some resentment they have toward the baby.

Though I do not agree with this statement – there is a big difference between a responsive parent and an overprotective parent. Overprotective parents smother and encourage distress by emphasising it, responsive parents are simply present and support a childs own journey through their own distress and out again.  The child learns that distress is a normal emotion and an unavoidable normal part of life but they are not alone in it.  This makes it less scarey for them thus nurturing confidence. >They go on >to "sacrifice" in ways that the child never asked for, and doesn’t really >benefit from anyway. It’s a sort of way that they can cover up or >compensate for their true feelings. > These parents then go on to hold the "sacrifice" over the child’s head >forever (after sitting up with you for 10 years straight, THIS is how you >treat me?)  Like you’re billing him for a service that he never >contracted. >Elaine Gallegos

More and more studies are coming out that support the theory that responding to a baby is the best thing you can possibly do for that babies all round welfare.  In fact one researcher I saw recently (and I kick myself for not remembering his name) was stating that responding to your babies cries consistently even helps her/his intelligence in the long term.  It was really interesting listening. It sort of went like this – that when we respond consistently to a babies cries we teach a pattern which is internalised within the child – distress-comfort.  and naturally the child will learn to do this itself.  So when they get distressed – they now that comfort comes next and they can then comfort themselves.  This is very different to the method of "leave them to cry and they will eventually stop" because the child simply learns there is no use asking for support because it is not going to come, that her/his needs are not important etc etc.  The latter method is not nurturing or soul building but soul destroying. – IMHO. Some food for thought Pam

Response:

Hi, There is a book called Solve Your Child’s Sleep Problems by Richard Ferber, M. D. It helped us out. Marc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Does anyone have any ideas on helping an eight month old sleep through > (or almost through) the night?  I love my son and I absolutely will not > allow him to "cry it out".  There has to be a better way. > P.S. I think teething may be a partial cause, too. > Stephanie

Response:

> Does anyone have any ideas on helping an eight month old sleep through > (or almost through) the night?  I love my son and I absolutely will not > allow him to "cry it out".  There has to be a better way. > P.S. I think teething may be a partial cause, too. > Stephanie

Have you actually read Ferber, or are you going by second hand accounts? I ask because a LOT of people have heard bad things about Ferber but when they actually read the book find that his methods are not AT ALL what they thought. If you haven’t read Ferber’s book, Solve Your Child’s Sleep Problems (I think that’s the right title), then it’s worth taking a look at. If you have read it and don’t want to use Ferber’s methods, then I don’t have any suggestions for you but I’m sure someone will. Good luck. –Summer

Response:

> Does anyone have any ideas on helping an eight month old sleep through > (or almost through) the night?  I love my son and I absolutely will not > allow him to "cry it out".  There has to be a better way. > P.S. I think teething may be a partial cause, too. > Stephanie

Yes, we just let both our daughters stay up until they were tired, and then they crawled into bed with us.  Sometimes we had gone to bed first,  (WE had securely child proofed the house!)  but usually they would start nursing and Sachi would crawl thankfully into bed, and a sleep filled night would usually result.  If they were fussy, I would usually be the one to grumpily crawl out of bed, put my daughter in the sling and take a walk around the block a couple of times until she was off again.  Back to bed, she would sometimes wake, a little suck and she was usually off again. If we had a restless night we would take them out in the evening for a long walk, or go African dancing.  Lots of walking, or exercising was the answer for us.  I think infants need masses of stimulation while they are being carried close to your heart, and if it is Mum, close to nourishment. Rayner

Response:

>Does anyone have any ideas on helping an eight month old sleep through >(or almost through) the night?  I love my son and I absolutely will not >allow him to "cry it out".  There has to be a better way. >P.S. I think teething may be a partial cause, too. >Stephanie

Is he waking at set intervals, like every 3 or 4 hours? Maybe if you try rousing him a little about 15 minutes before, that will reset his clock. (It has to do with sleep cycles, I’m not sure when it kicks in.) This has worked well on my son since he was about a year old. If he likes bouncing or rocking, try a crib vibrator, toys r us, $17. As soon as your son starts to wake, turn it on and it might lull him back to sleep. I wish I had found it sooner!

Response:

Does anyone have any ideas on helping an eight month old sleep through (or almost through) the night?  I love my son and I absolutely will not allow him to "cry it out".  There has to be a better way. P.S. I think teething may be a partial cause, too. Stephanie

Response:

If he just won’t sleep that one thing.  If he is teething that is another. Let’s address the easy one first.  If he is teething 1/2 hour before bedtime give him a normal dose of infant tylenol.  Bath him to get him relaxed and nurse or bottle feed him.  That way you’ve met all his normal needs.  You can probably tell where the teeth are coming through so you may want to use a small amount of orajel on that spot.  Don’t administer the tylenol and the orajel at the same time.   The way I got my son to sleep all night was somewhat easy but completely caring.  One poster had the best explanation and I wished I’d saved it to post back for you, but here’s my way and it is somewhat similar.  After you’ve met all your babies needs lay them down to sleep.  Rub their back and tell them how much mommy loves them.  Then leave the room.  If they start to cry wait just a short period – listen to their cry if it seems to be subsiding wait a few more minutes – if not go back in wind up their dream screen (or something similar) and calm them (try not to pick them up).  Repeat all of the above as many times as it takes.  Waiting just a short time in between going back in there to comfort him.  I mean like 10 minutes or so.  I am not an advocate of letting them cry for hours, to me it’s just not worth it – like you are going to be able to get anything taken care of or get any rest if your baby cries for an hour or more – please….I can almost guarantee if you try this night after night eventually your baby will learn that when you lay him down it means it’s night-night time, you love him and will check on him, but you won’t be getting him out of that crib.– Good luck and don’t give up. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Does anyone have any ideas on helping an eight month old sleep through > (or almost through) the night?  I love my son and I absolutely will not > allow him to "cry it out".  There has to be a better way. > P.S. I think teething may be a partial cause, too. > Stephanie

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