Pure Parents

Question:

;Elaine try having kids and see how they act at such ages! Then you’ll know ;The look on an 18 month olds face when theyve done something wrong tells you ;that they know! Surely you’re not suggesting Elaine actually experience raising children before she doles out her uneducated advice? =) Mise le meas, | Darryl L. Pierce Alt.Atheism Member #1142, Death ‘Piper of the BAAWA   | |  Visit me @ http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/1335/  | |          …maybe then you might know what it’s like…                | |   Unsolicited email to this address is acceptance of a $500 per day    | | storage expense to be paid within 30 days of the sending of the email. |

Response:

>Elaine try having kids and see how they act at such ages! Then you’ll know >The look on an 18 month olds face when theyve done something wrong tells you >that they know!

 You’re 35 years old. You’re old enough to figure out what situations end with the toddler losing it. Be there, and intervene before your tot ends up acting like the baby that he is.

Response:

(snipped a bunch) >Kids don’t ‘mature out of’ hitting etc if they are not prevented from >doing so.  In fact, the fun of hitting sister and causing a fuss is >very reinforcing.

It’s funny you should say this – I think part of the reason he likes to do this is because it makes a satisfying noise (slap, slap, slap). Thanks for the advice.

Response:

Elaine try having kids and see how they act at such ages! Then you’ll know The look on an 18 month olds face when theyve done something wrong tells you that they know! Susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>I fully believe that a 15 month old is old enough to understand when he’s >>>misbehaved. >> Yes, and I’m sure you were writing sonnets at one. >Good Lord, Elaine…where did that come from? >  What I’m saying is that one year olds won’t really understand if they’re > misbehaving. Regardless of how often or how hard someone punishes them. It’s > possible, I guess, to scare or intimidate a baby. Wouldn’t it just be better > to keep them out of trouble in the first place?

Response:

I take her away, because getting to your highchair first (if food is ready), or the saucer or jumpseat (nearer to mommy) or best of all, hanging out with mommy in the (attached) kitchen is the treat. Staying alone in the playyard is not. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Janet, what about when the child is only 15 months?  I have been > trying this approach with my son, who likes to slap his twin sister on > the head.  So far (already  a few months at least), it’s not working. > I put him in the other end of the playyard, but he of course just > comes crawling back to hit her again.  I take her away when I can (put > her in the highchair if food is ready, the exersaucer or jumpseat, or > just keep an eye on her as she’s next to me).  Any further > suggestions?  When did this start working with your three? >Why take her away? — put him in  a confined space like the high chair >when HE misbehaves.  A cat can learn that misbehavior leads to deprivation; >a 15 mos old gets the picture too [if a little longer] if you are >consistent.  The magic key to this kind of discipline is that you have >to do it over and over and over and over — but if you are consistent >it will work.  But I would not allow him free reign and deprive her when >it is his misbehavior you are trying to control.  He hits; he loses the >playyard. >If you can provide two separate playspaces that would also be helpful.

Response:

> (snipped a bunch) >Kids don’t ‘mature out of’ hitting etc if they are not prevented from >doing so.  In fact, the fun of hitting sister and causing a fuss is >very reinforcing. > It’s funny you should say this – I think part of the reason he likes > to do this is because it makes a satisfying noise (slap, slap, slap). > Thanks for the advice.

Any time you are trying to shape behavior [like for the first 20 years of parenting], it is helpful to pay attention to patterns, even take notes on what seems to follow what — sometimes you can spot precursors and change the environment so that the negative behavior is not cued. [or change the playyard situation BEFORE the hitting begins] All childrearing of course is easier said than done.

Response:

> I take her away, because getting to your highchair first (if food is > ready), or the saucer or jumpseat (nearer to mommy) or best of all, > hanging out with mommy in the (attached) kitchen is the treat. > Staying alone in the playyard is not.

Good answer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Janet, what about when the child is only 15 months?  I have been >> trying this approach with my son, who likes to slap his twin sister on >> the head.  So far (already  a few months at least), it’s not working. >> I put him in the other end of the playyard, but he of course just >> comes crawling back to hit her again.  I take her away when I can (put >> her in the highchair if food is ready, the exersaucer or jumpseat, or >> just keep an eye on her as she’s next to me).  Any further >> suggestions?  When did this start working with your three? >Why take her away? — put him in  a confined space like the high chair >when HE misbehaves.  A cat can learn that misbehavior leads to deprivation; >a 15 mos old gets the picture too [if a little longer] if you are >consistent.  The magic key to this kind of discipline is that you have >to do it over and over and over and over — but if you are consistent >it will work.  But I would not allow him free reign and deprive her when >it is his misbehavior you are trying to control.  He hits; he loses the >playyard. >If you can provide two separate playspaces that would also be helpful.

Response:

>>>I fully believe that a 15 month old is old enough to understand when he’s >>misbehaved. > Yes, and I’m sure you were writing sonnets at one. >Good Lord, Elaine…where did that come from?

 What I’m saying is that one year olds won’t really understand if they’re misbehaving. Regardless of how often or how hard someone punishes them. It’s possible, I guess, to scare or intimidate a baby. Wouldn’t it just be better to keep them out of trouble in the first place?

Response:

> >Why take her away? — put him in  a confined space like the high chair >when HE misbehaves.  A cat can learn that misbehavior leads to deprivation; >  Babies have to have a level of maturity to be able to relate to others. No > one needs to be reprimanded or deprived here. Just have a place where each > can play safely. >  At the time that other toddlers start developing social skills, this little > fellow will too. He doesn’t have to be rushed or penalized because he > happens to be a twin.  He is a twin, but he’s also a very little boy who > really needs those first couple of years to learn his simple motor skills. >  He doesn’t need an overlay of complicated social skills that he can’t > understand yet.

Horse pucky.  He needs to learn at 15 mos that you don’t hit people [or pull mom's hair or throw stuff at sister etc]  Kids of this age are perfectly capable of learning this.  I am not advocating hitting him back — just making the consequence be his and not his sister’s. >a 15 mos old gets the picture too [if a little longer] if you are >consistent. >The magic key to this kind of discipline is that you have >to do it over and over and over and over — but if you are consistent >it will work. >  If you do it long enough, the baby will mature to the point where he would > grow out of a lot of the misbehavior anyway. That’s why it takes to long to > teach some things.

Kids don’t ‘mature out of’ hitting etc if they are not prevented from doing so.  In fact, the fun of hitting sister and causing a fuss is very reinforcing.

Response:

>>I fully believe that a 15 month old is old enough to understand when he’s >misbehaved. > Yes, and I’m sure you were writing sonnets at one.

Good Lord, Elaine…where did that come from?  If you don’t want anyone to disagree with your opinions, don’t give them out. People….a word of warning…Elaine Gallant is a TROLL!  She/he offers advice (usually the wrong advice) to people and as soon as someone disagrees with her, she posts snide comments like the one above.  She pulls this same crap in misc.kids. Judy

Response:

>I fully believe that a 15 month old is old enough to understand when he’s >misbehaved.

 They’re not. Not by a long shot. If the babies are bashing each other, someone needs to be there to stop them. A no brainer. They either need better supervision, or secure temporary separation.  You’re not going to teach them to tap dance, play the harmonica, or interact like older kids. At least, not until they are in fact older and have more understanding and self control.

Response:

I fully expected you to be nasty about that, Elaine. It’ll be interesting to see if you still have all the answers when you finally have a child. Amanda

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I fully believe that a 15 month old is old enough to understand when he’s >misbehaved. >  Yes, and I’m sure you were writing sonnets at one.

Response:

Explanation and removal is hardly a cruel punishment.  My point, had you been able to see past your dogma, was that a 15 m/o was able to understand why he was being taken away from play time. Respond all you like, dear Elaine.  I am done with the topic. Amanda

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->  I just don’t believe in "punishing" babies. It’s supersititious and cruel. > . >I fully expected you to be nasty about that, Elaine. >It’ll be interesting to see if you still have all the answers when you >finally have a child. >Amanda >> >I fully believe that a 15 month old is old enough to understand when > he’s >> >misbehaved. >>  Yes, and I’m sure you were writing sonnets at one.

Response:

>I fully believe that a 15 month old is old enough to understand when he’s >misbehaved.

 Yes, and I’m sure you were writing sonnets at one.

Response:

 I just don’t believe in "punishing" babies. It’s supersititious and cruel. . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I fully expected you to be nasty about that, Elaine. >It’ll be interesting to see if you still have all the answers when you >finally have a child. >Amanda > >I fully believe that a 15 month old is old enough to understand when he’s > >misbehaved. >  Yes, and I’m sure you were writing sonnets at one.

Response:

> Janet, what about when the child is only 15 months?  I have been > trying this approach with my son, who likes to slap his twin sister on > the head.  So far (already  a few months at least), it’s not working. > I put him in the other end of the playyard, but he of course just > comes crawling back to hit her again.  I take her away when I can (put > her in the highchair if food is ready, the exersaucer or jumpseat, or > just keep an eye on her as she’s next to me).  Any further > suggestions?  When did this start working with your three?

Why take her away? — put him in  a confined space like the high chair when HE misbehaves.  A cat can learn that misbehavior leads to deprivation; a 15 mos old gets the picture too [if a little longer] if you are consistent.  The magic key to this kind of discipline is that you have to do it over and over and over and over — but if you are consistent it will work.  But I would not allow him free reign and deprive her when it is his misbehavior you are trying to control.  He hits; he loses the playyard. If you can provide two separate playspaces that would also be helpful.

Response:

>Why take her away? — put him in  a confined space like the high chair >when HE misbehaves.  A cat can learn that misbehavior leads to deprivation;

 Babies have to have a level of maturity to be able to relate to others. No one needs to be reprimanded or deprived here. Just have a place where each can play safely.  At the time that other toddlers start developing social skills, this little fellow will too. He doesn’t have to be rushed or penalized because he happens to be a twin.  He is a twin, but he’s also a very little boy who really needs those first couple of years to learn his simple motor skills.  He doesn’t need an overlay of complicated social skills that he can’t understand yet. >a 15 mos old gets the picture too [if a little longer] if you are >consistent. >The magic key to this kind of discipline is that you have >to do it over and over and over and over — but if you are consistent >it will work.

 If you do it long enough, the baby will mature to the point where he would grow out of a lot of the misbehavior anyway. That’s why it takes to long to teach some things. > But I would not allow him free reign and deprive her when >it is his misbehavior you are trying to control.  He hits; he loses the >playyard. >If you can provide two separate playspaces that would also be helpful.

 Go directly to separate playspaces for each baby, and skip the discipline at this early age.

Response:

I fully believe that a 15 month old is old enough to understand when he’s misbehaved.  He might not be able to fully grasp the fine nuance of "your sister feels badly because you hit her", but he will certainly understand that his behavior is neither appropriate nor appreciated. I agree that children need a level of maturity to *empathize* when another child is hurt…not to recognize that their behavior is wrong.  Merely separating the children and not saying why the separation is happening teaches nothing. Amanda

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Why take her away? — put him in  a confined space like the high chair >when HE misbehaves.  A cat can learn that misbehavior leads to deprivation; >  Babies have to have a level of maturity to be able to relate to others. No > one needs to be reprimanded or deprived here. Just have a place where each > can play safely. >  At the time that other toddlers start developing social skills, this little > fellow will too. He doesn’t have to be rushed or penalized because he > happens to be a twin.  He is a twin, but he’s also a very little boy who > really needs those first couple of years to learn his simple motor skills. >  He doesn’t need an overlay of complicated social skills that he can’t > understand yet. >a 15 mos old gets the picture too [if a little longer] if you are >consistent. >The magic key to this kind of discipline is that you have >to do it over and over and over and over — but if you are consistent >it will work. >  If you do it long enough, the baby will mature to the point where he would > grow out of a lot of the misbehavior anyway. That’s why it takes to long to > teach some things. > But I would not allow him free reign and deprive her when >it is his misbehavior you are trying to control.  He hits; he loses the >playyard. >If you can provide two separate playspaces that would also be helpful. >  Go directly to separate playspaces for each baby, and skip the discipline > at this early age.

Response:

Janet, what about when the child is only 15 months?  I have been trying this approach with my son, who likes to slap his twin sister on the head.  So far (already  a few months at least), it’s not working. I put him in the other end of the playyard, but he of course just comes crawling back to hit her again.  I take her away when I can (put her in the highchair if food is ready, the exersaucer or jumpseat, or just keep an eye on her as she’s next to me).  Any further suggestions?  When did this start working with your three? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Tell him firmly "we don’t hit, it’s not nice" (or similar!).  Remove >yourself physically from his reach.  Do not play with him until he >apologises.  Teach him what is expected (e.g. how to apologise and calm >down) and BE CONSISTENT no matter what the situation — don’t let him get >away with it in public / cos you’ve got guests / cos you’re in a hurry / >whatever. >I also used a few time outs a while back.  Now when they get aggressive, I >take them by the hand(s) / upper arm(s) and say very seriously "We don’t >hit.  That’s not nice.  Do you need a time out or can you calm down now?". >Usually, they cooperate, so we do some deep breathing together while I count >to ten and end up laughing. >I really don’t think spanking will help on this … you are modelling the >very behavior you want him to stop. >Hope this helps. >–Janet >Triplets  (10/21/96) >I have a three year old boy who loves to hit me.  I don’t like to spank >him, but it seems imposible to disipline him otherwise.  What should I >do?  Does anyone have any good advise who has gone through this, or >just has a solution? >– >Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com >Exchange ideas on practically anything ™.

- Melanie, mother of Kathryn and Thomas, born 3/11/98, and growing like weeds.   Melaniev(at)iname(dot)com – the "v" is for verbose.

Response:

 Separate them. It’s common for toddlers to have trouble getting along. If you have a fenced play yard, cross fence it. Have a section for each child to go temporarily and stay out of each other’s hair.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Janet, what about when the child is only 15 months?  I have been >trying this approach with my son, who likes to slap his twin sister on >the head.  So far (already  a few months at least), it’s not working. >I put him in the other end of the playyard, but he of course just >comes crawling back to hit her again.  I take her away when I can (put >her in the highchair if food is ready, the exersaucer or jumpseat, or >just keep an eye on her as she’s next to me).  Any further >suggestions?  When did this start working with your three? >Tell him firmly "we don’t hit, it’s not nice" (or similar!).  Remove >yourself physically from his reach.  Do not play with him until he >apologises.  Teach him what is expected (e.g. how to apologise and calm >down) and BE CONSISTENT no matter what the situation — don’t let him get >away with it in public / cos you’ve got guests / cos you’re in a hurry / >whatever. >I also used a few time outs a while back.  Now when they get aggressive, I >take them by the hand(s) / upper arm(s) and say very seriously "We don’t >hit.  That’s not nice.  Do you need a time out or can you calm down now?". >Usually, they cooperate, so we do some deep breathing together while I count >to ten and end up laughing. >I really don’t think spanking will help on this … you are modelling the >very behavior you want him to stop. >Hope this helps. >–Janet >Triplets  (10/21/96) >>I have a three year old boy who loves to hit me.  I don’t like to spank >>him, but it seems imposible to disipline him otherwise.  What should I >>do?  Does anyone have any good advise who has gone through this, or >>just has a solution? >>– >>Posted via Talkway – http://www.talkway.com >>Exchange ideas on practically anything ™. >- Melanie, mother of Kathryn and Thomas, born 3/11/98, and growing like weeds. >  Melaniev(at)iname(dot)com – the "v" is for verbose.

Response: