Pure Parents

Question:

In article >I’m sorry to hear that you think I have done that. It was not my intent. >It’s also possible that your urge for melodrama leads you to think things >like that. >Sometimes in productive discussions, it might become necessary to "break >some eggs".

You get back what you give out. >It’s also possible that you grasp things about being a suckup that I do not. >To me, sucking up would not get too much accomplished in the way of problem >solving.

Well, no it wouldn’t, but I haven’t asked Susan to help me solve a problem right now, have I? And criticizing a poster because she’s a psychologist (is she? I had no idea) doesn’t get too much accomplished either, does it? I posted, like others did, to a woman who is having a hard time with her 5-year-old. I *have* some suggestions; I’ve had 5-year-olds. >Of course, not everyone checks in to actually work on their problems. Some >just like the sympathy. Nothing wrong with that.

Now who’s the psychologist? LOL! (yes, you’re right, but unless people post a lot and you can see a pattern, you don’t know, do you?) Lynne * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

>>And gimme a break: what am I supposed to get by "sucking up" to >someone on Usenet? magazines? coupons? >free bubble bath samples

LOL!! Sign me up! Lynne (do different people have different prizes for sucking up?) * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

poster because >she’s a psychologist

 There’s HAVING a phd in psychology, and then there’s using it to it as a weapon to bully others. It’s the latter to which I object. It’s regretable that it’s so hard for you to tell the difference, and choose the wrong one in your interpretations. That you interpret I may have been too pushy on other occasions does not excuse bad behavior on the part of the psychologist.

Response:

In article > There’s HAVING a phd in psychology, and then there’s using it to it as a >weapon to bully others. It’s the latter to which I object.

This is bullying? You mean she bludgeoned the ng with her PhD instead of typing with her fingers? You’re the only one freaked out; Krystal seems fine; she just objected, answered, and they talked a bit. I think these folks are more than capable of defending themselves if the need arises. If the other posters aren’t intimidated, then maybe she’s not intimidating. >It’s regretable that it’s so hard for you to tell the

difference, and choose >the wrong one in your interpretations. >That you interpret I may have been too pushy on other occasions does not >excuse bad behavior on the part of the psychologist.

We can interpret differently; that’s ok. But I am confused. If you, as you say, "break eggs" in your discussions, is it ok because you don’t have a PhD? (Do you have one? I have no idea.) Lynne (all this talk of eggs! guess it’s the season) * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

>In article > There’s HAVING a phd in psychology, and then there’s using it >to it as a >weapon to bully others. It’s the latter to which I object. >This is bullying?

 Yes. > You mean she bludgeoned the ng with her PhD

 Yes.  You said it. >You’re the only one freaked >out;

 Now, I’m not the world’s most sensitive person, but even I could see that what Susan said dug at Krystal. She just wanted her kid in the car on time in the morning. She didn’t ask to have her relationship with her daughter disected. > Krystal seems fine; she just objected

 She was right. Susan had no business laying all that psycho babble crap on her. Susan certainly has a right to suck people under online. It’s not like there’s any way to stop her in any case. People need to understand that psychologists have a way of doing that sometimes. Nothing like a psychologist to take a simple, straightforeward molehill and make a mountain out of it.

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In article > Now, I’m not the world’s most sensitive person, but even I could see that >what Susan said dug at Krystal. >She just wanted her kid in the car on time in the morning. She didn’t ask to >have her relationship with her daughter disected.

Elaine, if I hadn’t read a lot of your posts I’d probably get ticked, but this is funny! Now who is the one who tells people to get rid of their kids, calls people whores and tramps, goes off on rants about singlemoms, and so on? And who is the one who, when people say they are really upset at what you say, shrugs and passes it off as "just saying what I think. If you can’t take the truth…." I mean, if you think Susan crossed the line with Krystal, you had better put yourself in the timeout corner big time! Hey, maybe you got a sensitivity jolt — go for it. Honestly, what do you get out of hanging out around here? Why not alt.support.childfree? Lynne * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

>Of course, not everyone checks in to actually work on their problems. Some >just like the sympathy. Nothing wrong with that.

Elaine, I’ve been mostly kind,(as my mother taught me to be to people like you) and have clicked past most of your posts, as is my option … but I can’t halp wondering after this post … why exactly is it that you "check in"?   Are we helping you work on yoru problems?  Or are you looking for sympathy … Absolutely, everyone has the right to read and post in APS … and I’m not suggesting you don’t … but it is a bit out of the ordinary, don’t you think? Krystal "Life isn’t measured by how many breaths we take but by how many moments that take our breath away" Eat the "treat" in my address to e-mail me.

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>Of course, not everyone checks in to actually work on their problems. Some >just like the sympathy. Nothing wrong with that. >Elaine, I’ve been mostly kind,(as my mother taught me to be to people like

you)  Why the attitude? I can’t say that I remember you having diddly to say to me before? >and have clicked past most of your posts, as is my option … but I can’t halp >wondering after this post … why exactly is it that you "check in"?

 I PAY to have access to newsgroups. I’m willing to invest resource in order to have access to newsgroups. I like newsgroups. I enjoy good discussion. >  Are we >helping you work on yoru problems?

 Do I learn about people from talking to them?  Guess I’d have to say that was true. I do. Do I have my own set of problems?  Yes. Why?  Don’t you? > Or are you looking for sympathy …

 I don’t THINK so. How does one tell for sure? >Absolutely, everyone has the right to read and post in APS

 Thank you so much. … and I’m not >suggesting you don’t … but it is a bit out of the ordinary, don’t you

think?  Are you suggesting that it’s "bad" to do something out of the ordinary? Or maybe you’re saying there is something wrong with BEING someone "out of the ordinary"? Is there an official roster? Could I get a look at it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Krystal >"Life isn’t measured by how many breaths we take but by >how many moments that take our breath away" >Eat the "treat" in my address to e-mail me.

Response:

>In article > Oh, Lynn. Don’t be so kneejerk.  The good doctor shouldn’t come >into a >newsgroup to make people insecure about their families. >And you, who have no children, should? Is the irony button on >your keyboard broken?

I’m sorry to hear that you think I have done that. It was not my intent. It’s also possible that your urge for melodrama leads you to think things like that. Sometimes in productive discussions, it might become necessary to "break some eggs". It’s also possible that you grasp things about being a suckup that I do not. To me, sucking up would not get too much accomplished in the way of problem solving. Of course, not everyone checks in to actually work on their problems. Some just like the sympathy. Nothing wrong with that.

Response:

>And gimme a break: what am I supposed to get by "sucking up" to >someone on Usenet? magazines? coupons?

free bubble bath samples Krystal "Life isn’t measured by how many breaths we take but by how many moments that take our breath away" Eat the "treat" in my address to e-mail me.

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 Oh, Lynn. Don’t be so kneejerk.  The good doctor shouldn’t come into a newsgroup to make people insecure about their families.  Small kids wasting a lot of time in the morning is not a sign of neglectful parenting. The little girl is not sending subconscious messages to her mother. She’s just a normal little kid who likes to play around. It’s just like you to try to suck up someone who comes in throwing their weight around as an "authority figure". But then….asking a suckup not to be so kneejerk is like asking the sun to wait for a few minutes before rising….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->In article > Be careful of psychologists. >And be careful of women who have no children trying to help >others with their childrearing problems. >Play fair, Elaine — if you disagree with someone, just do it. >Don’t start in on the personal stuff or you’re gonna get it back >at you. >Lynne >* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * >The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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 What you’re doing is wrong. Lynn doesn’t care about right or wrong. She just wants to be certain she isn’t left standing on her own.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->thanks, Lynne >Susan >http://havinganotherbaby.com >* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * >The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

In article > Oh, Lynn. Don’t be so kneejerk.  The good doctor shouldn’t come into a >newsgroup to make people insecure about their families.

And you, who have no children, should? Is the irony button on your keyboard broken? >It’s just like you to try to suck up someone who comes in throwing their >weight around as an "authority figure".

I’m not sucking up to anyone. I have no idea who she is, and I don’t consider her to be an authority figure — just another poster, who by the way, has the same right to post that you and I do. If I disagree with her I’ll be glad to do so in public. Btw, I am old enough that I don’t consider hardly anyone to be an authority figure. And gimme a break: what am I supposed to get by "sucking up" to someone on Usenet? magazines? coupons? I’m just asking you to practice what you preach. You are the one with the kneejerk reaction: for some reason you don’t like her title, or sig line, or something. Lynne * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

In article > Be careful of psychologists.

And be careful of women who have no children trying to help others with their childrearing problems. Play fair, Elaine — if you disagree with someone, just do it. Don’t start in on the personal stuff or you’re gonna get it back at you. Lynne * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

thanks, Lynne Susan http://havinganotherbaby.com * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

 Whoa, don’t you mean, DOCTOR Susan?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->thanks, Lynne >Susan >http://havinganotherbaby.com >* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * >The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

>If the problem stems from OTHER issues, then by all means, do what must be done >to make the child feel loved, you can’t stop doing for a toddler, and if it >helps the older child to get some extra special attention in this manner, >GREAT!

My response that yours was "hard-line" was because I thought that she is having trouble with her brother, and that needed to be addressed. Otherwise I agree with you about not indulging aggravating behaviour. >Super-Mom, I am not.  I can’t do everything for everybody, but I try to make it >evident that when we all work together, we will have time for special extras. >IF they chose to drag their feet, they miss out.

You may not be a super-mom, but you certainly sound right on to me!! Susan http://havinganotherbaby.com * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

 Be careful of psychologists.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I think this is a bit to much of a "hard line" response. >I’m baffled by this … I don’t consider myself a hard-a**, I’m actually very >tolerant … and have been accused of being TOO tolerant …  BUT it bothers me >for my children to waste time and expect me to pick up the slack.  If they are >making a notable effort and are having obvious problems, I’m thrilled to help >… If we had a late bed time the night before and they are simply tired and >groggy, I am thrilled to help … If I hit the snooze bar once too many times >and have to rush around int he morning, clearly then it is MY fault and I do as >much as I possibly can to help, short of chewing their breakfast FOR them. >HOWEVER, I’m not going to entertain moodiness, or disagree-ability, or grouchy >kids and do FOR them what they simply are chosing not to do. >If the problem stems from OTHER issues, then by all means, do what must be done >to make the child feel loved, you can’t stop doing for a toddler, and if it >helps the older child to get some extra special attention in this manner, >GREAT! >I drive my kids to school.  I keep a book in the car at all times, and on any >morning that we get to the school parkinglot and have a few minutes to spare, I >read to them from the book until it’s time to go in.  It is a reward for being >cooperative. >Super-Mom, I am not.  I can’t do everything for everybody, but I try to make it >evident that when we all work together, we will have time for special extras. >IF they chose to drag their feet, they miss out. >Krystal >"Life isn’t measured by how many breaths we take but by >how many moments that take our breath away" >Eat the "treat" in my address to e-mail me.

Response:

>I think this is a bit to much of a "hard line" response.

I’m baffled by this … I don’t consider myself a hard-a**, I’m actually very tolerant … and have been accused of being TOO tolerant …  BUT it bothers me for my children to waste time and expect me to pick up the slack.  If they are making a notable effort and are having obvious problems, I’m thrilled to help … If we had a late bed time the night before and they are simply tired and groggy, I am thrilled to help … If I hit the snooze bar once too many times and have to rush around int he morning, clearly then it is MY fault and I do as much as I possibly can to help, short of chewing their breakfast FOR them. HOWEVER, I’m not going to entertain moodiness, or disagree-ability, or grouchy kids and do FOR them what they simply are chosing not to do. If the problem stems from OTHER issues, then by all means, do what must be done to make the child feel loved, you can’t stop doing for a toddler, and if it helps the older child to get some extra special attention in this manner, GREAT!   I drive my kids to school.  I keep a book in the car at all times, and on any morning that we get to the school parkinglot and have a few minutes to spare, I read to them from the book until it’s time to go in.  It is a reward for being cooperative.   Super-Mom, I am not.  I can’t do everything for everybody, but I try to make it evident that when we all work together, we will have time for special extras. IF they chose to drag their feet, they miss out. Krystal "Life isn’t measured by how many breaths we take but by how many moments that take our breath away" Eat the "treat" in my address to e-mail me.

Response:

I agree. If I can tell my 6yr old is dragging, I help her out of her pj’s and into her uniform. Some days she just wants mommy to help. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi! >No! >Maybe your daughter just needs the time you spend with her, dressing her, as >a bit of ‘mummy and daughter time’.  It’s not unusual for children to be >able to do things in one situation, but prefer not to do them in others. >It’s not naughty, and not babyish, just a sign that your child knows what >she needs to develop emotionally. >Unless there is a pressing reason why she must dress herself, I would >suggest helping her – minimally – as long as she wants you to.  Probably >only a few months now, anyway.  It will be so much nicer for your daughter >to feel that *she* decided to dress on her own, rather than you *made* her >do it. >Don’t feel pressured by the Montessori philosophy.  Montessori herself was >supposed to be *hopeless* with kids!!! > suggestions on how to get her to dress herself? > Thanks! > — > Rebecca Turner

Response:

I think this is a bit to much of a "hard line" response. I agree with the other posters that if she wants some help you should give it to her. It seems to me though that there’s a good chance it’s related to her little brother because clearly she is capable of dressing herself (as per Montessori) but is choosing not to. IMO when kids choose behaviors they are trying to tell us something and we shouldn’t override their message by simply disciplining the behavior. I bet she does feel that it’s unfair that you do more for her little brother and maybe she want’s to be "little" again, sometimes. If you give her small things like helping her dress it will alleviate some of those feelings, make her feel like you understand her and reduce some of the sibling rivalry. In my experience, sibling rivalry can become worse if parents "miss" the messages from their kids. BTW, I had exactly the same problem with my second and third kids. Once I started helping my older daughter to dress, she became less interested in wanting my help. I think she just wanted confirmation from me that I would help her if she needed it, and that I don’t save my help for her little sister. Good luck. Susan http://havinganotherbaby.com * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Hi! No! Maybe your daughter just needs the time you spend with her, dressing her, as a bit of ‘mummy and daughter time’.  It’s not unusual for children to be able to do things in one situation, but prefer not to do them in others. It’s not naughty, and not babyish, just a sign that your child knows what she needs to develop emotionally. Unless there is a pressing reason why she must dress herself, I would suggest helping her – minimally – as long as she wants you to.  Probably only a few months now, anyway.  It will be so much nicer for your daughter to feel that *she* decided to dress on her own, rather than you *made* her do it. Don’t feel pressured by the Montessori philosophy.  Montessori herself was supposed to be *hopeless* with kids!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > suggestions on how to get her to dress herself? > Thanks! > — > Rebecca Turner

Response:

well, I have a different outlook on this … as long as you do everything for her, she is gonna let you … IF she just wants the close time of your help, then by all means help her … but if she is not doing her jobs with the goal of you doing it for her, then stop doing it!   When it’s time to go, then go … as long as you have provided enough time for her to get the necessary things done, leave wether or not she does them up to her.  The first time she has to walk (to the car) through the snow barefoot will likely be the last time she drags butt on that task (worked with my 5 year old last year in Kidergarten, and she put the socks and shoes on in the car)   My daughter is 6 and the only two things she cannot do for herself int he mornings are brush her hair (which is waist length, and a job i *LOVE* anyway) and put on her pantyhose.  I am glad to help her with the things she struggles with, but the rest is her responsibility.  My approach is one of "Natural Consequences" … you don’t put shoes on, your feet get cold.  I haven’t yet had to take them to school in their PJ’s, but I’d do it!  (Of course bring along their clothes so they can change on the way) Krystal "Life isn’t measured by how many breaths we take but by how many moments that take our breath away" Eat the "treat" in my address to e-mail me.

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I have a very capable 5yo who goes to Montessori preschool.  As per the Montessori philosophy, she is self-sufficient at school–gets herself dressed and undressed (shoes, jacket, etc.)quickly and easily.  At home, however, she dillydallies or plain refuses to do it herself.  (She has a 2yo brother and I dress him.  I don’t know whether she views this as unfair and when he starts dressing himself she will too.)  Any suggestions on how to get her to dress herself?   Thanks! — Rebecca Turner

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