Question:
>>Other cultures don’t have routines? I think you’ll find here, families use >what works best for *them*. >Becky >Severity of Routine does not differ much between children & their wards. >> Is it advisable for a child to be put to bed for the night at 6:30 in >>evening in any culture? In a home anywhere I think there is a social life >>after this time in evening at least of eating together that child will be >>deprived of. I am trying to rescue a child getting sacrificed at the altar of >>the Western Culture God named Routine over past 14 months since the child was >>18 months. Parents who feel uneasy about the practice are rquested to share >>their feelings.
"Severity of Routine"? In caps like a book title? Were you kicked out of alt.mothers for weirdness? Banty
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Is it advisable for a child to be put to bed for the night at 6:30 in evening >>in any culture? In a home anywhere I think there is a social life after this >>time in evening at least of eating together that child will be deprived of. I >>am trying to rescue a child getting sacrificed at the altar of the Western >>Culture God named Routine over past 14 months since the child was 18 months. >>Parents who feel uneasy about the practice are rquested to share their >>feelings. >Well, at least you’re honest about only wanting to hear from those who >would agree with you… >Although I’m not sure what you’re saying. a culture that gets up at 4:00 >am to milk the cows (not too far off or unusual – only the generation >before me in my family) might see a child to bed at 6:30pm in order to do >that chore. >Otherwise, all I have to say is that, given no age, etc., I can’t really >say much. >Especially since you only want folks who agree with you :-) >Banty >If parents are having their evening meals prior to preparing the children for >bed even 4pm should be fine. >Tell me what time should elapse between the child being put to bed and parents >getting in bed themselves?
Depends completely on family preferences and the child’s needs. Um, from your posts, it seems that you have a strong idea on this and you’re looking for validation. What do *you* think it is? Banty
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >| Is it advisable for a child to be put to bed for the night at 6:30 in evening in >| any culture? >Saying that no child should ever go to bed at 6:30 is as wrong as >insisting that every child should always go to bed at 6:30. You say >nothing about whether the child is in daycare, and if so at what time >he/she has to get up to go there, and nothing about how many hours of >sleep the child needs each night – a very individual need. >If a child, for instance, needs twelve hours of sleep a night, and the >parents both work early hours and need to leave home at 7 to get the >child to daycare, then a 6:30 bedtime is unusual but appropriate. If >they’re putting a child who isn’t sleepy in her room by herself >because they think anything after 7 is grown-up time, that’s >inappropriate. From your description we can’t tell what’s going on >here.
The OP hasn’t even given the child’s age. Banty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->It’s not what the clock says, it’s what the child’s body says. >- Cindy Kandolf, mamma to Kenneth (7) and Robby (1) > Bilingual Families Web Page: > http://www.nethelp.no/cindy/biling-fam.html
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Is it advisable for a child to be put to bed for the night at 6:30 in > evening in > any culture? In a home anywhere I think there is a social life after this > time > in evening at least of eating together that child will be deprived of. I > am > trying to rescue a child getting sacrificed at the altar of the Western > Culture > God named Routine over past 14 months since the child was 18 months. > Parents who > feel uneasy about the practice are rquested to share their feelings. > Is this your kid?
Irrelevant, the idiot came to Usenet with it. > If it isn’t what business is it of yours?
Irrelevant, the idiot came to Usenet with it. > 6:30 PM for our family, is time for the kids to get a bath. 7:00PM is time > to be in bed for stories. 7:30-8:00 is LIGHTS OUT > (kids are 7 months and 3.5 years)
That’s because you’re a highhanded dishonoring bastard. Steve
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It’s NOT what some adult says the child’s "body" says, it’s what the > CHILD says!! > Steve > Not what the BODY says, but what the childs MOUTH says? Interesting. Here > is my 4.5, constantly whining, its 9:00 at night, time for bed. "But Mommy, > I’m not tired."……cry, cry, cry. "Yes you are sweetie. Your sitting > there practically falling asleep." > "But Mommy, I’m not tired." "Ok. Then you can watch Brady Bunch." > Carried her off to bed.
That doesn’t matter, it is your job to take them at their word so that they learn for themselves when they are tired, and not impede their development by trying to make all their decisions for them. > We have > to for the "most part" listen to their bodies and not their words in this > case.
Total bullshit and bluster. You’re fishing for a reason to ignore the child’s mind, and that’s dishonoring them in the extreme. > A child will say they are not tired, even though they know they are > just so they can stay up a little later.
You’re repeating yourself. Don’t you ever decide to stay awake longer even though you’re tired?? That is a reasonable choice for a human being to learn how to make, and they can only do it by being honored for what they say they want. > Now, it doesnt always work out > that they fall asleep that quickly after saying they are not tired. But in > my case, I have a 4.5 that CANT stand to be woken up in the morning.
You take the time and start early. The child doesn’t wish to be left at home, so they can go to grandparents alseep about as easy as awake at that age. > Tuesdays I have to wake her by 6:30 to go to her grandparents. I and my > hubby both have to work early on Tues. If I were to let her stay up say til > 10:00 pm, I would be late getting to work all the time because she would > give me a hard time getting up. She gives me an extremely hard time now > with her going to bed by 9:00. And I’ll be damned if I would lose my job > because I’m always late due to the fact that my dd "didnt" want to go to bed > at a reasonable hour for herself to get up in the morning.
She’s old enough to hear about your troubles and to wish to help you instead of being dishonored by you highhandedly forcing her. > And you cant > suggest that I just take her out of the bed in the morning and carry her to > the car, pj’s and all, because she WONT accept that. She has to be dressed > to go out.
If it’s not safe to leave her home then she has to come with, but you need to apologize for that to honor her. You’re the adult. > In DD’s eyes. Not mine. I have attempted that one before. > "Fine, if you wont get up, I guess Mommy is just going to have to carry you > to the car as is." > "No, Mommy! I have to get dressed and brush my teeth!" But of course, > still doesnt want to get up.
It sounds like she’s verbal and congitive, so what do you not understand about having to speak with her about what you want and what the family needs? Are you insulted to have to ask someone’s cooperation who is smaller than you are? Why? Are you that immature and insecure in yourself, or what? > Say what you want, but you cannot "always" just listen to their words. > SOMETIMES you must listen to their actions.
You must always listen to her words, because anything else is a matter of YOUR actions, and your impressions, not hers. Quit pretending you should do her thinking for her, it’s insulting of her and abusive. Know your proper place. You brought another being into the world without their permission, and thus you are obligated, you are given another complete being to assist till they can do for themselves, an equal to you in value and capability, and not someone to boss around. Steve
Response:
Is it advisable for a child to be put to bed for the night at 6:30 in evening in any culture? In a home anywhere I think there is a social life after this time in evening at least of eating together that child will be deprived of. I am trying to rescue a child getting sacrificed at the altar of the Western Culture God named Routine over past 14 months since the child was 18 months. Parents who feel uneasy about the practice are rquested to share their feelings.
Response:
>Is it advisable for a child to be put to bed for the night at 6:30 in evening in >any culture? In a home anywhere I think there is a social life after this time >in evening at least of eating together that child will be deprived of. I am >trying to rescue a child getting sacrificed at the altar of the Western Culture >God named Routine over past 14 months since the child was 18 months. Parents who >feel uneasy about the practice are rquested to share their feelings.
Well, at least you’re honest about only wanting to hear from those who would agree with you… Although I’m not sure what you’re saying. a culture that gets up at 4:00 am to milk the cows (not too far off or unusual – only the generation before me in my family) might see a child to bed at 6:30pm in order to do that chore. Otherwise, all I have to say is that, given no age, etc., I can’t really say much. Especially since you only want folks who agree with you :-) Banty
Response:
Other cultures don’t have routines? I think you’ll find here, families use what works best for *them*. Becky
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Is it advisable for a child to be put to bed for the night at 6:30 in evening in > any culture? In a home anywhere I think there is a social life after this time > in evening at least of eating together that child will be deprived of. I am > trying to rescue a child getting sacrificed at the altar of the Western Culture > God named Routine over past 14 months since the child was 18 months. Parents who > feel uneasy about the practice are rquested to share their feelings.
Response:
> Is it advisable for a child to be put to bed for the night at 6:30 in evening in > any culture? In a home anywhere I think there is a social life after this time > in evening at least of eating together that child will be deprived of. I am > trying to rescue a child getting sacrificed at the altar of the Western Culture > God named Routine over past 14 months since the child was 18 months. Parents who > feel uneasy about the practice are rquested to share their feelings.
It’s abusive. Why did they even WANT a child if they wanted them asleep whenever they were home?? They should have bought a robot or a wind-up toy! Steve
Response:
Alt.Mothers kicked fantooosh out, so I see he’s found his way over here. <sigh>
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Is it advisable for a child to be put to bed for the night at 6:30 in evening in > any culture? In a home anywhere I think there is a social life after this time > in evening at least of eating together that child will be deprived of. I am > trying to rescue a child getting sacrificed at the altar of the Western Culture > God named Routine over past 14 months since the child was 18 months. Parents who > feel uneasy about the practice are rquested to share their feelings.
Response:
When you say "rescuing" I am getting the feeling that the child is not yours. If that’s the case, what makes you think you know what is best for the other family’s child? Anyone who works with children will tell you children love routines. Do you know that the family puts the child to bed and then eats, or are you assuming that? If they do, maybe it’s because the child gets up so early and needs to go to bed early. I wish my boys would do that. I wouldn’t mind having my boys in bed when DH comes home at 7:30, that way he and could have some time together. And no, I’m not trying to deprive my children of time with their father, he works 40 hrs weekly over 4 days, so he has 3 days off with us. I’m sure this won’t be welcome, as you seem to be looking for sympathy or congratulations, but it’s just MHO. — Nikolette – mommy to Brendan and Cade, born 09/26/00 Luke 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom. www.geocities.com/bootsn2
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Is it advisable for a child to be put to bed for the night at 6:30 in evening >>in any culture? In a home anywhere I think there is a social life after this >>time in evening at least of eating together that child will be deprived of. I >>am trying to rescue a child getting sacrificed at the altar of the Western >>Culture God named Routine over past 14 months since the child was 18 months. >>Parents who feel uneasy about the practice are rquested to share their >>feelings. >Well, at least you’re honest about only wanting to hear from those who >would agree with you… >Although I’m not sure what you’re saying. a culture that gets up at 4:00 >am to milk the cows (not too far off or unusual – only the generation >before me in my family) might see a child to bed at 6:30pm in order to do >that chore. >Otherwise, all I have to say is that, given no age, etc., I can’t really >say much. >Especially since you only want folks who agree with you :-) >Banty
If parents are having their evening meals prior to preparing the children for bed even 4pm should be fine. Tell me what time should elapse between the child being put to bed and parents getting in bed themselves?
Response:
>Other cultures don’t have routines? I think you’ll find here, families use >what works best for *them*. >Becky
Severity of Routine does not differ much between children & their wards. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Is it advisable for a child to be put to bed for the night at 6:30 in >evening in any culture? In a home anywhere I think there is a social life >>after this time in evening at least of eating together that child will be >>deprived of. I am trying to rescue a child getting sacrificed at the altar of >>the Western Culture God named Routine over past 14 months since the child was >>18 months. Parents who feel uneasy about the practice are rquested to share >>their feelings.
Response:
| Is it advisable for a child to be put to bed for the night at 6:30 in evening in | any culture? Saying that no child should ever go to bed at 6:30 is as wrong as insisting that every child should always go to bed at 6:30. You say nothing about whether the child is in daycare, and if so at what time he/she has to get up to go there, and nothing about how many hours of sleep the child needs each night – a very individual need. If a child, for instance, needs twelve hours of sleep a night, and the parents both work early hours and need to leave home at 7 to get the child to daycare, then a 6:30 bedtime is unusual but appropriate. If they’re putting a child who isn’t sleepy in her room by herself because they think anything after 7 is grown-up time, that’s inappropriate. From your description we can’t tell what’s going on here. It’s not what the clock says, it’s what the child’s body says. – Cindy Kandolf, mamma to Kenneth (7) and Robby (1) Bilingual Families Web Page: http://www.nethelp.no/cindy/biling-fam.html
Response:
It is my grandchild. BTW you have given me the response I was looking for, because though you wish your boys would go to bed at 6:30 you are not forcing them in bed in the nameof routine. I doubt any child would wake up early to qualify to be put in bed in early hours of evening. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >When you say "rescuing" I am getting the feeling that the child is not >yours. If that’s the case, what makes you think you know what is best for >the other family’s child? Anyone who works with children will tell you >children love routines. Do you know that the family puts the child to bed >and then eats, or are you assuming that? If they do, maybe it’s because the >child gets up so early and needs to go to bed early. I wish my boys would >do that. I wouldn’t mind having my boys in bed when DH comes home at 7:30, >that way he and could have some time together. And no, I’m not trying to >deprive my children of time with their father, he works 40 hrs weekly over 4 >days, so he has 3 days off with us. >I’m sure this won’t be welcome, as you seem to be looking for sympathy or >congratulations, but it’s just MHO. >– >Nikolette – mommy to Brendan and Cade, born 09/26/00 >Luke 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father’s good pleasure to >give you the kingdom. >www.geocities.com/bootsn2
Response:
> When you say "rescuing" I am getting the feeling that the child is not > yours. If that’s the case, what makes you think you know what is best for > the other family’s child?
The child doesn’t "belong" as some "property" to that family, they are their own person! One does not ask who owns this slave, one frees them! > Anyone who works with children will tell you > children love routines.
Then let the child invent and handle their own if they like it so well! Most such blustering bullshit on the part of adults is merely lies and damned lies. > Do you know that the family puts the child to bed > and then eats, or are you assuming that? If they do, maybe it’s because the > child gets up so early and needs to go to bed early. I wish my boys would > do that. I wouldn’t mind having my boys in bed when DH comes home at 7:30, > that way he and could have some time together. And no, I’m not trying to > deprive my children of time with their father, he works 40 hrs weekly over 4 > days, so he has 3 days off with us.
No, you’re trying to be able to pretend that you don’t have kids, and at your kids’ expense. If you can’t fuck in front of your kids that’s YOUR hangup, but you don’t need to burden them with your embarrassment and diminish their life because of it. Bullying children with your size is a form of cowardice. > I’m sure this won’t be welcome, as you seem to be looking for sympathy or > congratulations, but it’s just MHO. > — > Nikolette – mommy to Brendan and Cade, born 09/26/00
Fuck your HO. Steve
Response:
> If parents are having their evening meals prior to preparing the children for > bed even 4pm should be fine. > Tell me what time should elapse between the child being put to bed and parents > getting in bed themselves?
What the hell are you REALLY fishing for here? Make yourself plain!! Steve
Response:
> >Other cultures don’t have routines? I think you’ll find here, families use >what works best for *them*. >Becky > Severity of Routine does not differ much between children & their wards.
What "wards", I think you misuse the word. >> Is it advisable for a child to be put to bed for the night at 6:30 in >>evening in any culture? In a home anywhere I think there is a social life >>after this time in evening at least of eating together that child will be >>deprived of. I am trying to rescue a child getting sacrificed at the altar of >>the Western Culture God named Routine over past 14 months since the child was >>18 months. Parents who feel uneasy about the practice are rquested to share >>their feelings.
It’s actually the stupid god of sexual embarrassment and pig-headed pretense that their time is worth so much more than the child’s!!! Steve
Response:
> | Is it advisable for a child to be put to bed for the night at 6:30 in evening in > | any culture? > Saying that no child should ever go to bed at 6:30 is as wrong as > insisting that every child should always go to bed at 6:30. You say > nothing about whether the child is in daycare, and if so at what time > he/she has to get up to go there, and nothing about how many hours of > sleep the child needs each night – a very individual need. > If a child, for instance, needs twelve hours of sleep a night,
NONE of them need that much! > and the > parents both work early hours and need to leave home at 7 to get the > child to daycare, then a 6:30 bedtime is unusual but appropriate. If > they’re putting a child who isn’t sleepy in her room by herself > because they think anything after 7 is grown-up time, that’s > inappropriate. From your description we can’t tell what’s going on > here. > It’s not what the clock says, it’s what the child’s body says. > – Cindy Kandolf
It’s NOT what some adult says the child’s "body" says, it’s what the CHILD says!! Steve
Response:
Steve said: >The child doesn’t "belong" as some "property" to that family, they are
their own person! One does not ask who owns this slave, one frees them! Frees? As in, takes an 18 month old (or 8 month in my children’s cases), and frees them to make their own decisions? To make their own way in life? Please, this is absolutely ridiculous, and I have no idea why you’re posting here. You’re not looking for solutions, you’re looking for fights. >Then let the child invent and handle their own if they like it so well!
Hmm … I think that’s exactly what I’m doing, within reason. I put them to bed when they’re tired, and they wake up when they’re not. >No, you’re trying to be able to pretend that you don’t have kids, and at
your kids’ expense. If you can’t f*ck in front of your kids that’s YOUR hangup, but you don’t need to burden them with your embarrassment and diminish their life because of it. Bullying children with your size is a form of cowardice. I’m sorry, but reading this made me laugh. I don’t know where you got the idea that I want my children in bed at a certain time because I want to make love with my husband. My boys are 8 mos old and don’t understand what’s going on anyway, when he and I do have sex. If they did, I wouldn’t be doing it in front of them, not because I’m embarrassed but because, as much as I love my boys, there are some things that I want kept between me and their dad. BTW, what is your obsession with sex? That’s at least twice (I have not, nor am I going to, read all of your posts) that you’ve accused someone of setting bedtimes so they can go have sex. Again, just MHO. — Nikolette – mommy to Brendan and Cade, born 09/26/00 Luke 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom. www.geocities.com/bootsn2
Response:
> When you say "rescuing" I am getting the feeling that the child is not > yours. If that’s the case, what makes you think you know what is best for > the other family’s child? > The child doesn’t "belong" as some "property" to that family, they are > their own person! One does not ask who owns this slave, one frees them! > Anyone who works with children will tell you > children love routines. > Then let the child invent and handle their own if they like it so well!
Most children do "invent" their own routine and the parents just follow it. I never "made" my childs routine. They did. Then I just followed it. Mrs. Pepper
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> | Is it advisable for a child to be put to bed for the night at 6:30 in evening in > | any culture? > Saying that no child should ever go to bed at 6:30 is as wrong as > insisting that every child should always go to bed at 6:30. You say > nothing about whether the child is in daycare, and if so at what time > he/she has to get up to go there, and nothing about how many hours of > sleep the child needs each night – a very individual need. > If a child, for instance, needs twelve hours of sleep a night, > NONE of them need that much! > and the > parents both work early hours and need to leave home at 7 to get the > child to daycare, then a 6:30 bedtime is unusual but appropriate. If > they’re putting a child who isn’t sleepy in her room by herself > because they think anything after 7 is grown-up time, that’s > inappropriate. From your description we can’t tell what’s going on > here. > It’s not what the clock says, it’s what the child’s body says. > – Cindy Kandolf > It’s NOT what some adult says the child’s "body" says, it’s what the > CHILD says!! > Steve
Not what the BODY says, but what the childs MOUTH says? Interesting. Here is my 4.5, constantly whining, its 9:00 at night, time for bed. "But Mommy, I’m not tired."……cry, cry, cry. "Yes you are sweetie. Your sitting there practically falling asleep." "But Mommy, I’m not tired." "Ok. Then you can watch Brady Bunch." Carried her off to bed. Point is, a child WILL say they are not tired when they really are. We have to for the "most part" listen to their bodies and not their words in this case. A child will say they are not tired, even though they know they are just so they can stay up a little later. Now, it doesnt always work out that they fall asleep that quickly after saying they are not tired. But in my case, I have a 4.5 that CANT stand to be woken up in the morning. Tuesdays I have to wake her by 6:30 to go to her grandparents. I and my hubby both have to work early on Tues. If I were to let her stay up say til 10:00 pm, I would be late getting to work all the time because she would give me a hard time getting up. She gives me an extremely hard time now with her going to bed by 9:00. And I’ll be damned if I would lose my job because I’m always late due to the fact that my dd "didnt" want to go to bed at a reasonable hour for herself to get up in the morning. And you cant suggest that I just take her out of the bed in the morning and carry her to the car, pj’s and all, because she WONT accept that. She has to be dressed to go out. In DD’s eyes. Not mine. I have attempted that one before. "Fine, if you wont get up, I guess Mommy is just going to have to carry you to the car as is." "No, Mommy! I have to get dressed and brush my teeth!" But of course, still doesnt want to get up. Say what you want, but you cannot "always" just listen to their words. SOMETIMES you must listen to their actions.
Response:
> Is it advisable for a child to be put to bed for the night at 6:30 in evening in > any culture? In a home anywhere I think there is a social life after this time > in evening at least of eating together that child will be deprived of. I am > trying to rescue a child getting sacrificed at the altar of the Western Culture > God named Routine over past 14 months since the child was 18 months. Parents who > feel uneasy about the practice are rquested to share their feelings.
Is this your kid? If it isn’t what business is it of yours? 6:30 PM for our family, is time for the kids to get a bath. 7:00PM is time to be in bed for stories. 7:30-8:00 is LIGHTS OUT (kids are 7 months and 3.5 years)
Response:
> Steve said: >The child doesn’t "belong" as some "property" to that family, they are > their own person! One does not ask who owns this slave, one frees them! > Frees? As in, takes an 18 month old (or 8 month in my children’s cases), > and frees them to make their own decisions? To make their own way in life?
At that age you must serve them by meeting their needs as they feel them. Only in the case of something terribly important to their survival do you violate their wishes, and then only with apology in your heart and on your lips. > Please, this is absolutely ridiculous, and I have no idea why you’re posting > here.
Sure you do. > You’re not looking for solutions, you’re looking for fights.
No, I’m looking to correct vicious parenting. Steve >Then let the child invent and handle their own if they like it so well! > Hmm … I think that’s exactly what I’m doing, within reason. I put them to > bed when they’re tired, and they wake up when they’re not.
If you force them you are dishonoring them. You are NOT the judge of whether they are tired or rested, THEY are! >No, you’re trying to be able to pretend that you don’t have kids, and at > your kids’ expense. If you can’t f*ck in front of your kids that’s YOUR > hangup, but you don’t need to burden them with your embarrassment and > diminish their life because of it. Bullying children with your size is a > form of cowardice. > I’m sorry, but reading this made me laugh. I don’t know where you got the > idea that I want my children in bed at a certain time because I want to make > love with my husband.
It’s a typical reason, and a fraudulent one. > My boys are 8 mos old and don’t understand what’s > going on anyway, when he and I do have sex. If they did, I wouldn’t be > doing it in front of them, not because I’m embarrassed but because, as much > as I love my boys, there are some things that I want kept between me and > their dad.
Bullshit, you’re lying. > BTW, what is your obsession with sex?
It’s not about any supposed obsession of mine, but only about yours! > That’s at least twice (I > have not, nor am I going to, read all of your posts) that you’ve accused > someone of setting bedtimes so they can go have sex. > Again, just MHO. > — > Nikolette – mommy to Brendan and Cade, born 09/26/00
It’s the truth and you know it, it’s also fraudulent and abusive. Steve
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > When you say "rescuing" I am getting the feeling that the child is not > > yours. If that’s the case, what makes you think you know what is best > for > > the other family’s child? > The child doesn’t "belong" as some "property" to that family, they are > their own person! One does not ask who owns this slave, one frees them! > > Anyone who works with children will tell you > > children love routines. > Then let the child invent and handle their own if they like it so well! > Most children do "invent" their own routine and the parents just follow it. > I never "made" my childs routine. They did. Then I just followed it. > Mrs. Pepper
I bet you’re lying. Steve
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