Pure Parents

Question:

>Steve, re-read the post. This *is* an 11 yr old she’s talking about.  How >many 11 yr olds do their own laundry?

Not to speak badly of any parent who doesn’t do this, but most of them who are raised with respect. See, kids tend to want to do all of the things required by this age, when they are *allowed* to do what they like.  They get turned off to "chores" by parents expecting them to do things in ways or at times that they don’t really want. Notice how younger kids *want* to do stuff? Now, I’m sure that you are thinking of the typical teen who rolls their eyes when asked to do something.  The typical teen is not the normal teen who has been raised with respect and allowed to develop the understandings about what needs to be done, when and why. I don’t know if you have run across any normal teens, but I have. It is amazing to see. — Do not underestimate your abilities.  That is your boss’s job. It is your job to find ways around your boss’s roadblocks.

Response:

alt.parenting.solutions,"Charlene Ranger" >Thanks Glen! I can’t tell you how good I feel after reading your responses >to me. Just when I felt like a horrible parent, you really changed my >thinking. I still don’t like the way I handled things, but I do feel a bit >better about myself anyway!

Look, Charlene, yer doing everything the best that you can. From what you said, you didn’t exactly grow up under the best circumstances (but heck … how many of us did?) and *especially* based on that, you are doing admirably. Just remember that the kids are people, too and that we all make mistakes (so apologizing for them is kool). You remember that and you got it made … as if you weren’t doing awfully well already. — Do not underestimate your abilities.  That is your boss’s job. It is your job to find ways around your boss’s roadblocks.

Response:

> And make no mistake, if she was 11 and not a teenager she wouldn’t act > like that. If you don’t try to control a teen they will act adult, but > to the very degree you try to control and "mold" them they will hate > your guts and fly into rages. > Steve

Steve, re-read the post. This *is* an 11 yr old she’s talking about.  How many 11 yr olds do their own laundry? Tigger

Response:

Hahaha….that was a good one, she’d never forgive me for doing that, but you’re right, she’d never be late again. I’ve gone through this exact same thing before, hearing her cry and complain that she had "no clean clothes to wear" when I knew that she just couldn’t find them since she had hidden them to keep from putting them away properly. So she just has to wear her dirty clothes when that happens. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thank you for venting! > It is such a relief to find out I am not alone > I know just what you mean. I have felt at times the feeling of really > wanting to hurt a child. Be proud that you didn’t. (neither did I) > Kids can really push you buttons. > My kids aged 7 and 9 also have to put away their clean and folded up > clothes. It’s a perfectly normal thing for them to do. > I will not wash any clothes unless they are at least touching the hamper. It > did happen a few times that my son was upset in the mornings because his > favorite sweater was not to be found. We found it under his bed in the end. > Dirty ofcourse. Too bad. He got better at putting his clothes in the hamper. > > We had a time when my daughter would not get dressed in the mornings. She > would gripe and moan about any outfit, she didn’t want to wear anything I > suggested. Finally we ran out of time, so I grabbed an outfit, stuffed it in > a plastic bag and put her in the car in her pyjama’s. I drove her to school > and handed the clothes to the teacher explaining that DD had not wanted to > get dressed. Needless to say DD was screaming the whole time. She put on her > clothes at school, but was NEVER late with getting dressed again > I don’t know how she will be at age 11. I think you did great! Thank you for > sharing this with us. > Becca

Response:

What others have done is take about 2/3 of the child’s stuff, and box it. Then they cycle through the stuff, keeping the boxes in storage.  Child only has a few things to deal with at any one time, but they technically get to keep all of their stuff. Beanies sure look cute in collections. Shelves are a good way to show them off. Sweatshirts, jeans and T-shirts are good clothes choices for anyone who doesn’t like to spend a lot of time fussing with their wardrobe. That type of stuff is made to be jammed into a drawer when not in use. Empty out the drawers, and only put 3-4 items in each drawer. Then everything will fit, and she will have plenty of places to store things. Stuff won’t get lost. Box the rest, and cycle through it every few weeks.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks Elaine…to me though it sure didn’t seem like I had exercised self > control. I felt like I was totally to blame for her getting so upset, and > the more upset she was getting towards me, the angrier I was getting, so in > that way I don’t feel that I was really under control. > You do have a point about her maybe having too much, in fact, I know she > does. I just wish I could get this through to her grandma. I mean, this > child owns almost 300 beanie babies, no kidding. Plus she has two HUGE nets > overflowing with stuffed animals hanging on the walls, and a toybox in her > bedroom that is full of toys she hasn’t looked at in years. And then there’s > her clothes…she has a 5 drawer dresser which is packed full of clothes. > (well it wouldn’t be so bad if they were all neatly folded, then they might > all fit!) so this is probably one of the reasons why she doesn’t put them > away. But I’ve gone through her drawers a few times, cleaned them out, > refolded and organized everything, but it only stays that way for that week. > She also will shove sweatshirts in them and stuff because it’s easier then > hanging them. It all boils down to laziness. > Anyway, I appreciate the advice that you all gave me on this. I have come > away with some great suggestions. Thanks… > Charlene > Hi. Really, you showed a lot of control. She really took the clothes you > laundered and folded yourself and jammed them in with a bunch of toys and > dirty stuff? > My first thought was that we were really poor when I was 11. We kids were > growing fast, and I had not yet begun to raid charity boxes for clothes. I > didn’t OWN 5 day’s worth of school clothes. Not enough clothes to fill a > drawer. All three kids each had a single drawer in a dresser. We only > needed > the one dresser. > Could it be that your child has so much stuff she can’t manage it all? I > can > remember hand washing socks on Wednesday to get through the week. > > If only I had read the advice earlier tonight from KidDoc and Dorothy > (on > my > > last post about the morning incident with my 11 yr old) maybe what > happened > > tonight wouldn’t have happened. First let me give you all my excuses: I > have > > been having an extremely stressful week so far with three kids while DH > is > > out of town on business, I’m pregnant (!) and tonight everyone in the > house > > was cranky and stressed, we got home late from a school play, and then > at > > 9:00 I found out that my oldest (the 11 yr old) didn’t pack yet for an > > overnight school trip tomorrow, which she was supposed to have done > before > > 7:00 tonight, but spent her time outside with her friends instead, > telling > > me that she was done packing. (phew!) So by 10:00pm, near exhaustion, > she > > had her bedroom totally turned upside down looking for a hat that she > lost. > > I came in to help her find it in amongst the mess, and then I saw what > got > > me very upset. Now all of you I’m sure are going to find this completely > > trivial I’m sure, but what the heck, I’m venting here! > > my girls have the responsibility of putting away their clean clothes > after > I > > have washed and folded them. The older one has always shirked this > > responsibility, and I often find the clothes, clean and folded, stuffed > > under her bookshelf, in the closet under her toys, etc. which gets me > quite > > upset. Just as recently as Sunday we found a whole bunch, and she got an > > allowance deduction, plus she was told to put them away, properly, ASAP. > > Well tonight, in a closed box in a corner of her room, under a bunch of > > beanie babies and stuff, were all the clothes we found on Sunday, PLUS > the > > ones I washed on Monday, and some dirty ones thrown in also.  By this > time, > > I had reached my limit. I had one nerve left, and she got on it. I > started > > by lecturing, saying, "Why did you do this? Even after we asked you so > many > > times not to…" she yells back at me, "I DIDN"T DO IT!" I yelled back > at > > her, " Oh really? Well who did then? Take responsibility for yourself > for > > once" and the shouting match was on….."YOU did it! I saw you do it! > YOU > > just don’t remember!" She says to me. That was it, I know for a fact > that > I > > did not do this. Why in the heck would I? I just went on a yelling > tirade > > about this stupid clean clothes not put away thing, and about her > blaming > me > > for something that she was done over and over herself. She was BAWLING > > hysterically, throwing clothes around her room, screaming, and I stood > there > > watching, then suddenly I honestly felt like hurting her. I really did. > I > > have never felt this way about a child in my life, and it scares me that > I > > did tonight. I ran over to her with my hand raised, and came SO close to > > slapping her, but didn’t (thank God) I ended up grabbing her tightly and > > hugging her, saying "Calm down…calm down…" I don’t know if I was > talking > > to her as much as to myself. I was literally shaking, and my heart was > > pounding a mile a minute. With the amount of adrenaline that was in me I > > probably could have really hurt the child. > > I apologized to her later, and told her that I was sorry for yelling at > her > > and that there really wasn’t any excuse for it. I told her that I really > did > > love her, even though it seems like I don’t a lot. I told her that when > I > > grew up my mom yelled at me a lot and I got hit all the time, and I need > to > > learn better ways to discipline kids. I know this is true. (I am NOT > blaming > > my parents for this, but I do think how we are raised has a lot to do > with > > how we treat our kids, and I was raised with a tremendous amount of > physical > > and verbal abuse. I think now I know how my mom felt!) > > I know now that this whole thing was over something that really means > > nothing in the long run, and I need to change the way I react to these > > things. Thank you for reading, and thanks for the good advice that I’ve > been > > getting. (well, for the most part, anyway) I’ve taken up enough of my > time > > and yours now… > > Charlene

Response:

Thanks Elaine…to me though it sure didn’t seem like I had exercised self control. I felt like I was totally to blame for her getting so upset, and the more upset she was getting towards me, the angrier I was getting, so in that way I don’t feel that I was really under control. You do have a point about her maybe having too much, in fact, I know she does. I just wish I could get this through to her grandma. I mean, this child owns almost 300 beanie babies, no kidding. Plus she has two HUGE nets overflowing with stuffed animals hanging on the walls, and a toybox in her bedroom that is full of toys she hasn’t looked at in years. And then there’s her clothes…she has a 5 drawer dresser which is packed full of clothes. (well it wouldn’t be so bad if they were all neatly folded, then they might all fit!) so this is probably one of the reasons why she doesn’t put them away. But I’ve gone through her drawers a few times, cleaned them out, refolded and organized everything, but it only stays that way for that week. She also will shove sweatshirts in them and stuff because it’s easier then hanging them. It all boils down to laziness. Anyway, I appreciate the advice that you all gave me on this. I have come away with some great suggestions. Thanks… Charlene

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi. Really, you showed a lot of control. She really took the clothes you > laundered and folded yourself and jammed them in with a bunch of toys and > dirty stuff? > My first thought was that we were really poor when I was 11. We kids were > growing fast, and I had not yet begun to raid charity boxes for clothes. I > didn’t OWN 5 day’s worth of school clothes. Not enough clothes to fill a > drawer. All three kids each had a single drawer in a dresser. We only needed > the one dresser. > Could it be that your child has so much stuff she can’t manage it all? I can > remember hand washing socks on Wednesday to get through the week. > If only I had read the advice earlier tonight from KidDoc and Dorothy (on > my > last post about the morning incident with my 11 yr old) maybe what > happened > tonight wouldn’t have happened. First let me give you all my excuses: I > have > been having an extremely stressful week so far with three kids while DH is > out of town on business, I’m pregnant (!) and tonight everyone in the > house > was cranky and stressed, we got home late from a school play, and then at > 9:00 I found out that my oldest (the 11 yr old) didn’t pack yet for an > overnight school trip tomorrow, which she was supposed to have done before > 7:00 tonight, but spent her time outside with her friends instead, telling > me that she was done packing. (phew!) So by 10:00pm, near exhaustion, she > had her bedroom totally turned upside down looking for a hat that she > lost. > I came in to help her find it in amongst the mess, and then I saw what got > me very upset. Now all of you I’m sure are going to find this completely > trivial I’m sure, but what the heck, I’m venting here! > my girls have the responsibility of putting away their clean clothes after > I > have washed and folded them. The older one has always shirked this > responsibility, and I often find the clothes, clean and folded, stuffed > under her bookshelf, in the closet under her toys, etc. which gets me > quite > upset. Just as recently as Sunday we found a whole bunch, and she got an > allowance deduction, plus she was told to put them away, properly, ASAP. > Well tonight, in a closed box in a corner of her room, under a bunch of > beanie babies and stuff, were all the clothes we found on Sunday, PLUS the > ones I washed on Monday, and some dirty ones thrown in also.  By this > time, > I had reached my limit. I had one nerve left, and she got on it. I started > by lecturing, saying, "Why did you do this? Even after we asked you so > many > times not to…" she yells back at me, "I DIDN"T DO IT!" I yelled back at > her, " Oh really? Well who did then? Take responsibility for yourself for > once" and the shouting match was on….."YOU did it! I saw you do it! YOU > just don’t remember!" She says to me. That was it, I know for a fact that > I > did not do this. Why in the heck would I? I just went on a yelling tirade > about this stupid clean clothes not put away thing, and about her blaming > me > for something that she was done over and over herself. She was BAWLING > hysterically, throwing clothes around her room, screaming, and I stood > there > watching, then suddenly I honestly felt like hurting her. I really did. I > have never felt this way about a child in my life, and it scares me that I > did tonight. I ran over to her with my hand raised, and came SO close to > slapping her, but didn’t (thank God) I ended up grabbing her tightly and > hugging her, saying "Calm down…calm down…" I don’t know if I was > talking > to her as much as to myself. I was literally shaking, and my heart was > pounding a mile a minute. With the amount of adrenaline that was in me I > probably could have really hurt the child. > I apologized to her later, and told her that I was sorry for yelling at > her > and that there really wasn’t any excuse for it. I told her that I really > did > love her, even though it seems like I don’t a lot. I told her that when I > grew up my mom yelled at me a lot and I got hit all the time, and I need > to > learn better ways to discipline kids. I know this is true. (I am NOT > blaming > my parents for this, but I do think how we are raised has a lot to do with > how we treat our kids, and I was raised with a tremendous amount of > physical > and verbal abuse. I think now I know how my mom felt!) > I know now that this whole thing was over something that really means > nothing in the long run, and I need to change the way I react to these > things. Thank you for reading, and thanks for the good advice that I’ve > been > getting. (well, for the most part, anyway) I’ve taken up enough of my time > and yours now… > Charlene

Response:

Thanks Glen! I can’t tell you how good I feel after reading your responses to me. Just when I felt like a horrible parent, you really changed my thinking. I still don’t like the way I handled things, but I do feel a bit better about myself anyway! Charlene

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>(I am NOT blaming >> my parents for this, but I do think how we are raised has a lot to do with >> how we treat our kids, and I was raised with a tremendous amount of physical >> and verbal abuse. I think now I know how my mom felt!) >It’s alright to blame your parents, it was their fault, but they could >blame their parents as well. They couldn’t help it at the time, they >were blinded by their OWN rage and insecurity. > I understand responsibility and the reasons *why* we behave as we > do, as well as the next guy. > The *understanding* of what they did and why they did it is > different from blaming them.  It seems that Charlene has gotten > past blame and into understanding — a better place to be. > I say this only because some of the more closed-minded folks > accuse me of playing the "blame game" when understanding is my > goal so that we don’t pass on the negative and less effective > things that our parents did to us (while simply trying to do the > best that they could in the circumstances in which they found > themselves). > Charlene seems to be in just about the right place. > — > Do not underestimate your abilities.  That is your boss’s job. > It is your job to find ways around your boss’s roadblocks.

Response:

Hi Charlene.  I think you did two terrific things: you calmed the situation down, and you apologized afterwards.  So few parents apologize when they feel that they’ve done someting wrong.  I think you’re a big person – and a good parent – to have done so. I’d like to recommend a book to you, it’s called "Parenting With Love and Logic," by Cline and Fay.  It’s a very handy book, and is built around a philosophy of parenting that might work well for you (I don’t know, you’ll have to tell me if you like it or not). The basic idea is that with older children, "significant learning opportunities" are present in most daily events.  Thus, for example, the clothes are a good example – what’s the consequence of not putting her clothes away?  Not having any clean clothes.  In other words, the rule is, if she puts them away, you’ll wash them for her (personally, by the way, I would have her wash her own clothes at this point, but it’s really whatever you feel most comfortable with).  Then when you find the clothes on the floor, you’re not angry – you just won’t be washing them when they get dirty.  The End.  She will learn in a big hurry that if she wants clean clothes, she’ll have to put them away – or, alternatively, maybe she doesn’t mind walking around looking raggedy, which would be okay with you. Anyway, my point is – get the book, read it, tell me what you think, and go easy on yourself.  I think you did great. KidDoc P.S.  How come you have to wash her clothes? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > If only I had read the advice earlier tonight from KidDoc and Dorothy (on my > last post about the morning incident with my 11 yr old) maybe what happened > tonight wouldn’t have happened. First let me give you all my excuses: I have > been having an extremely stressful week so far with three kids while DH is > out of town on business, I’m pregnant (!) and tonight everyone in the house > was cranky and stressed, we got home late from a school play, and then at > 9:00 I found out that my oldest (the 11 yr old) didn’t pack yet for an > overnight school trip tomorrow, which she was supposed to have done before > 7:00 tonight, but spent her time outside with her friends instead, telling > me that she was done packing. (phew!) So by 10:00pm, near exhaustion, she > had her bedroom totally turned upside down looking for a hat that she lost. > I came in to help her find it in amongst the mess, and then I saw what got > me very upset. Now all of you I’m sure are going to find this completely > trivial I’m sure, but what the heck, I’m venting here! > my girls have the responsibility of putting away their clean clothes after I > have washed and folded them. The older one has always shirked this > responsibility, and I often find the clothes, clean and folded, stuffed > under her bookshelf, in the closet under her toys, etc. which gets me quite > upset. Just as recently as Sunday we found a whole bunch, and she got an > allowance deduction, plus she was told to put them away, properly, ASAP. > Well tonight, in a closed box in a corner of her room, under a bunch of > beanie babies and stuff, were all the clothes we found on Sunday, PLUS the > ones I washed on Monday, and some dirty ones thrown in also.  By this time, > I had reached my limit. I had one nerve left, and she got on it. I started > by lecturing, saying, "Why did you do this? Even after we asked you so many > times not to…" she yells back at me, "I DIDN"T DO IT!" I yelled back at > her, " Oh really? Well who did then? Take responsibility for yourself for > once" and the shouting match was on….."YOU did it! I saw you do it! YOU > just don’t remember!" She says to me. That was it, I know for a fact that I > did not do this. Why in the heck would I? I just went on a yelling tirade > about this stupid clean clothes not put away thing, and about her blaming me > for something that she was done over and over herself. She was BAWLING > hysterically, throwing clothes around her room, screaming, and I stood there > watching, then suddenly I honestly felt like hurting her. I really did. I > have never felt this way about a child in my life, and it scares me that I > did tonight. I ran over to her with my hand raised, and came SO close to > slapping her, but didn’t (thank God) I ended up grabbing her tightly and > hugging her, saying "Calm down…calm down…" I don’t know if I was talking > to her as much as to myself. I was literally shaking, and my heart was > pounding a mile a minute. With the amount of adrenaline that was in me I > probably could have really hurt the child. > I apologized to her later, and told her that I was sorry for yelling at her > and that there really wasn’t any excuse for it. I told her that I really did > love her, even though it seems like I don’t a lot. I told her that when I > grew up my mom yelled at me a lot and I got hit all the time, and I need to > learn better ways to discipline kids. I know this is true. (I am NOT blaming > my parents for this, but I do think how we are raised has a lot to do with > how we treat our kids, and I was raised with a tremendous amount of physical > and verbal abuse. I think now I know how my mom felt!) > I know now that this whole thing was over something that really means > nothing in the long run, and I need to change the way I react to these > things. Thank you for reading, and thanks for the good advice that I’ve been > getting. (well, for the most part, anyway) I’ve taken up enough of my time > and yours now… > Charlene

Response:

I agree with Annemarie.  I think 11 years old is old enough to take responsiblity for her room and washing her own clothes. If her room is so wrecked that she can’t make it out the door in time with the hat she wanted, then she either doesn’t go or she goes without the hat, ya know.  If she doesn’t bother to clean her clothes or keep her clean clothes seperated from the dirty ones, then she has to go out in dirty clothes until she realizes that she needs to organize. I have had times when my son has frustrated me to no end and you DID THE RIGHT thing.  I also either hug him or walk away until my own feelings are cooled down. Way to go Mom! Sarah Mom to Kalen (8) and Victoria (6 months)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Charlene, It’s ok you know, everyone looses it now and then, and you > managed to stop yourself before you did something you could not take back. > Good on you. > I have a suggestion though.  It is kindof tough love.  I suggest you just > let her bedroom to her except for helping to vacuum and clean once a week or > so.   Tell her that her cloths   are her responsibility, she has to put them > in the wash, and put them away, and if she does not she has to live with the > consiquences, ie dirty cloths.  I did this with my two about a year ago, 10 > & 15 and it has worked well.  There have been a few times when they have had > to go to school a bit dirty, but it taught them responsibility, and now I > hardly have to mention it at all, except to say get your washing, I’m doing > the washing soon. > Hope you have a better day tomorrow. > Annemarie > If only I had read the advice earlier tonight from KidDoc and Dorothy (on > my > last post about the morning incident with my 11 yr old) maybe what > happened > tonight wouldn’t have happened. First let me give you all my excuses: I > have > been having an extremely stressful week so far with three kids while DH is > out of town on business, I’m pregnant (!) and tonight everyone in the > house > was cranky and stressed, we got home late from a school play, and then at > 9:00 I found out that my oldest (the 11 yr old) didn’t pack yet for an > overnight school trip tomorrow, which she was supposed to have done before > 7:00 tonight, but spent her time outside with her friends instead, telling > me that she was done packing. (phew!) So by 10:00pm, near exhaustion, she > had her bedroom totally turned upside down looking for a hat that she > lost. > I came in to help her find it in amongst the mess, and then I saw what got > me very upset. Now all of you I’m sure are going to find this completely > trivial I’m sure, but what the heck, I’m venting here! > my girls have the responsibility of putting away their clean clothes after > I > have washed and folded them. The older one has always shirked this > responsibility, and I often find the clothes, clean and folded, stuffed > under her bookshelf, in the closet under her toys, etc. which gets me > quite > upset. Just as recently as Sunday we found a whole bunch, and she got an > allowance deduction, plus she was told to put them away, properly, ASAP. > Well tonight, in a closed box in a corner of her room, under a bunch of > beanie babies and stuff, were all the clothes we found on Sunday, PLUS the > ones I washed on Monday, and some dirty ones thrown in also.  By this > time, > I had reached my limit. I had one nerve left, and she got on it. I started > by lecturing, saying, "Why did you do this? Even after we asked you so > many > times not to…" she yells back at me, "I DIDN"T DO IT!" I yelled back at > her, " Oh really? Well who did then? Take responsibility for yourself for > once" and the shouting match was on….."YOU did it! I saw you do it! YOU > just don’t remember!" She says to me. That was it, I know for a fact that > I > did not do this. Why in the heck would I? I just went on a yelling tirade > about this stupid clean clothes not put away thing, and about her blaming > me > for something that she was done over and over herself. She was BAWLING > hysterically, throwing clothes around her room, screaming, and I stood > there > watching, then suddenly I honestly felt like hurting her. I really did. I > have never felt this way about a child in my life, and it scares me that I > did tonight. I ran over to her with my hand raised, and came SO close to > slapping her, but didn’t (thank God) I ended up grabbing her tightly and > hugging her, saying "Calm down…calm down…" I don’t know if I was > talking > to her as much as to myself. I was literally shaking, and my heart was > pounding a mile a minute. With the amount of adrenaline that was in me I > probably could have really hurt the child. > I apologized to her later, and told her that I was sorry for yelling at > her > and that there really wasn’t any excuse for it. I told her that I really > did > love her, even though it seems like I don’t a lot. I told her that when I > grew up my mom yelled at me a lot and I got hit all the time, and I need > to > learn better ways to discipline kids. I know this is true. (I am NOT > blaming > my parents for this, but I do think how we are raised has a lot to do with > how we treat our kids, and I was raised with a tremendous amount of > physical > and verbal abuse. I think now I know how my mom felt!) > I know now that this whole thing was over something that really means > nothing in the long run, and I need to change the way I react to these > things. Thank you for reading, and thanks for the good advice that I’ve > been > getting. (well, for the most part, anyway) I’ve taken up enough of my time > and yours now… > Charlene

Response:

Thank you for venting! It is such a relief to find out I am not alone I know just what you mean. I have felt at times the feeling of really wanting to hurt a child. Be proud that you didn’t. (neither did I) Kids can really push you buttons. My kids aged 7 and 9 also have to put away their clean and folded up clothes. It’s a perfectly normal thing for them to do. I will not wash any clothes unless they are at least touching the hamper. It did happen a few times that my son was upset in the mornings because his favorite sweater was not to be found. We found it under his bed in the end. Dirty ofcourse. Too bad. He got better at putting his clothes in the hamper. We had a time when my daughter would not get dressed in the mornings. She would gripe and moan about any outfit, she didn’t want to wear anything I suggested. Finally we ran out of time, so I grabbed an outfit, stuffed it in a plastic bag and put her in the car in her pyjama’s. I drove her to school and handed the clothes to the teacher explaining that DD had not wanted to get dressed. Needless to say DD was screaming the whole time. She put on her clothes at school, but was NEVER late with getting dressed again I don’t know how she will be at age 11. I think you did great! Thank you for sharing this with us. Becca

Response:

LOL.  All of the people offering advice to this gal are all guilty of the same thing, losing it and raising their voices to their child(ren).  Maybe even guilty of further infractions.  I stand guilty as well. Fear not, you’ve not really done your child wrong by yelling at her.  You’ve just merely "joined the club" of parents who have, at one point or another, done the same thing. Whether it becomes the norm, habit, a further form of discipline, if you will, begs the next question.  It all really depends on how your child reacted to it and whether the mere act did the perverbial trick or not. I didn’t read the rest of the posting, myself.  I got halfway and figured when you said you lost it (people have different definitions of the term "losing ir"), you beat the hell out of the kid.  Guess you haven’t reached that level yet.  Not saying you will; just pointing out the many levels of "losing it." AJPDLA

Response:

<snip> >and I stood there >watching, then suddenly I honestly felt like hurting her. I really did. I >have never felt this way about a child in my life, and it scares me that I >did tonight. I ran over to her with my hand raised, and came SO close to >slapping her, but didn’t (thank God) I ended up grabbing her tightly and >hugging her, saying "Calm down…calm down…"

You are human.  And you are not alone or a bad person or parent for feeling this way.  I have gotten that upset with my son.   You did the right thing.  You caught it and calmed down. It’s natural to get upset when your child is purposefully deceiving you. Adding pregnancy to it and stress can be a ticking time bomb. I hope the venting helped.  As for advice, these incidents will come and go.   When your husband gets home hand him the Parent label and go let Calgon take you away. Kendra ~*~*~*~ Fight like a real man!  Get on your knees and pray! < ><

Response:

So by 10:00pm, near exhaustion, she >had her bedroom totally turned upside down looking for a hat that she lost. >I came in to help her find it in amongst the mess, and then I saw what got >me very upset. Now all of you I’m sure are going to find this completely >trivial I’m sure, but what the heck, I’m venting here!

Charlene, forgive yourself already; you’re human and you had all the classic ingredients in place for a blowup: fatigue, stress, and an unpleasant surprise in finding the clothes all over the place. I honestly think you and your daughter are operating from different expectations with the clothes: you are expecting her to put them away (not unreasonable) and she seems to be expecting to be left alone. Now, here’s where I disagree with Steve: kids don’t let you know about their changing needs in mature ways, so you find things like clothes stuffed under the bed and have to interpret the signals. A grownup would just talk to you. Now that you both have calmed down, it might be a good time to nicely let her know that she is surely old enough to take of her clothes by herself from now on; you didn’t realize that she resented it. Whatever. (or just quietly not do her clothes at all) — and just back out unless she asks for help. You will still, imo, have some challenging situations, because she is not likely to be real good at this at first, and will be loudly wailing about not having clean underwear, or whatever. Just ignore her and practice the innocent look, which you can do in reality, because you are not responsible for her clean clothes. You are also not responsible for her packing, and if she misses a trip because she chooses to do other things, let her face the consequences and not spill it onto everyone else. Some kids really get into loudly blaming everyone else for their own irresponsibility, and you may have to hold up a hand and point out that this is her situation; if she wants help she’ll have to ask for it nicely. Good luck. Lynne * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

>>(I am NOT blaming > my parents for this, but I do think how we are raised has a lot to do with > how we treat our kids, and I was raised with a tremendous amount of physical > and verbal abuse. I think now I know how my mom felt!) >It’s alright to blame your parents, it was their fault, but they could >blame their parents as well. They couldn’t help it at the time, they >were blinded by their OWN rage and insecurity.

I understand responsibility and the reasons *why* we behave as we do, as well as the next guy. The *understanding* of what they did and why they did it is different from blaming them.  It seems that Charlene has gotten past blame and into understanding — a better place to be. I say this only because some of the more closed-minded folks accuse me of playing the "blame game" when understanding is my goal so that we don’t pass on the negative and less effective things that our parents did to us (while simply trying to do the best that they could in the circumstances in which they found themselves). Charlene seems to be in just about the right place. — Do not underestimate your abilities.  That is your boss’s job. It is your job to find ways around your boss’s roadblocks.

Response:

> I know now that this whole thing was over something that really means > nothing in the long run, and I need to change the way I react to these > things. Thank you for reading, and thanks for the good advice that I’ve been > getting. (well, for the most part, anyway) I’ve taken up enough of my time > and yours now…

One thing I learned a long time ago as a teacher was "kids will break rules and then lie about it".  If kids didn’t break rules and didn’t lie about it, we wouldn’t need any sort of discipline.  So I never get mad when a student breaks rules and lies about it, because if they didn’t, I wouldn’t really need to be there (I’m a sub, and I rarely have to actually teach anything).  I just impose a consequence. This is how I would have handled it:  Once you see the clothes, say "I’m sure you understand that this was the wrong thing to do.  Instead of going on tomorrow’s school trip, you’ll spend tomorrow and the next day cleaning your room."   Then walk out and let her trash the place a little more, secure in the knowledge that you have provided her with appropriate consequences for reasonable rules. — Jack Tarkaan                                      Kalamazoo, Michigan — NO UNSOLICITED E-MAIL AT THIS ADDRESS – Respect privacy – NO SPAM!!!!

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alt.parenting.solutions,"Charlene Ranger" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >my girls have the responsibility of putting away their clean clothes after I >have washed and folded them. The older one has always shirked this >responsibility, and I often find the clothes, clean and folded, stuffed >under her bookshelf, in the closet under her toys, etc. which gets me quite >upset. Just as recently as Sunday we found a whole bunch, and she got an >allowance deduction, plus she was told to put them away, properly, ASAP. >Well tonight, in a closed box in a corner of her room, under a bunch of >beanie babies and stuff, were all the clothes we found on Sunday, PLUS the >ones I washed on Monday, and some dirty ones thrown in also.  By this time, >I had reached my limit. I had one nerve left, and she got on it. I started >by lecturing, saying, "Why did you do this? Even after we asked you so many >times not to…" she yells back at me, "I DIDN"T DO IT!" I yelled back at >her, " Oh really? Well who did then? Take responsibility for yourself for >once" and the shouting match was on….."YOU did it! I saw you do it! YOU >just don’t remember!" She says to me. That was it, I know for a fact that I >did not do this. Why in the heck would I? I just went on a yelling tirade >about this stupid clean clothes not put away thing, and about her blaming me >for something that she was done over and over herself. She was BAWLING >hysterically, throwing clothes around her room, screaming, and I stood there >watching, then suddenly I honestly felt like hurting her. I really did. I >have never felt this way about a child in my life, and it scares me that I >did tonight. I ran over to her with my hand raised, and came SO close to >slapping her, but didn’t (thank God) I ended up grabbing her tightly and >hugging her, saying "Calm down…calm down…"

Thank you, thank you, thank you! Look, everybody loses it, sometimes.  Cripes — it’s just part of living in a society which causes us all to stretch in many aspects. That you caught yourself like this is something to be proud of. >I don’t know if I was talking >to her as much as to myself. I was literally shaking, and my heart was >pounding a mile a minute. With the amount of adrenaline that was in me I >probably could have really hurt the child.

But you didn’t. An interesting question that might cause others to think is "Why didn’t you hit her?  What is it that caused you to stop before doing the harm?" >I apologized to her later, and told her that I was sorry for yelling at her >and that there really wasn’t any excuse for it. I told her that I really did >love her, even though it seems like I don’t a lot.

Another great thing to do.  Parents should, by this age, be making it clear that they are human — not GawdCreatures ™. >I told her that when I >grew up my mom yelled at me a lot and I got hit all the time, and I need to >learn better ways to discipline kids. I know this is true. (I am NOT blaming >my parents for this, but I do think how we are raised has a lot to do with >how we treat our kids, and I was raised with a tremendous amount of physical >and verbal abuse. I think now I know how my mom felt!)

That you have come to these realizations by now is something that many parents never do.  Again, congratulations.  It will benefir both you and your family. >I know now that this whole thing was over something that really means >nothing in the long run, and I need to change the way I react to these >things. Thank you for reading, and thanks for the good advice that I’ve been >getting. (well, for the most part, anyway) I’ve taken up enough of my time >and yours now…

But you *are* thinking about it in order to put things into perspective (something that it seems you have done a lot of). This is part of the process. Just remember that perfection is nothing more than a goal that no parent will ever achieve. Glen (as shown by my spelling and typos) Appleby — Do not underestimate your abilities.  That is your boss’s job. It is your job to find ways around your boss’s roadblocks.

Response:

Charlene, You did fine.  We all have emotions.  We all have breaking points.  I probably would have yelled too if I were in your shoes.  You showed your DD, by apologizing to her, that even though emotions can get out of control, we still have to take responsibility for them and make amends. As to the laundry, this is a peeve of mine too.  My DD does the same thing as yours.  It’s not unusual for me to find clean, folded clothes stuffed under her bed with the dust bunnies.  It really annoys me.  I have told my daughter before it’s the same as her saying to me in words that my work and consideration of her means nothing to her.  And that it hurts my feelings and makes me angry.  Whenever I go in and find that there are clean clothes where they should not be, I go on a laundry strike.  But just of her clothes.  There have been times when she didn’t take this seriously and had to go without underwear.  Usually, the day she has to go without underwear, she comes home from school and cleans the room.  I don’t start doing her laundry again until all the clean clothes are put away (or stacked neatly on top of her dresser if the pajama drawer is too full) and all the dirty stuff makes it to the hamper.  My DD is 8, but that is old enough to put away all the clean clothes except for hang up stuff.  She can’t reach the bar in her closet, so I do the hanging stuff for her.  You might think about doing that with your DD.  It really does bring home the fact that if she isn’t responsible, she alone will have to accept the consequences.  I don’t get upset about not doing her laundry.  I don’t get upset if she has no clean underwear and her clothes don’t match.  I just wait for her to do what she needs to do. Hang in there, hon.  Hope your hubby gets home soon. Sharon

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi Charlene, It’s ok you know, everyone looses it now and then, and you > managed to stop yourself before you did something you could not take back. > Good on you. > I have a suggestion though.  It is kindof tough love.  I suggest you just > let her bedroom to her except for helping to vacuum and clean once a week or > so.   Tell her that her cloths   are her responsibility, she has to put them > in the wash, and put them away, and if she does not she has to live with the > consiquences, ie dirty cloths.  I did this with my two about a year ago, 10 > & 15 and it has worked well.  There have been a few times when they have had > to go to school a bit dirty, but it taught them responsibility, and now I > hardly have to mention it at all, except to say get your washing, I’m doing > the washing soon. > Hope you have a better day tomorrow. > Annemarie

Precisely. Doing her laundry for her is insulting. And trying to tell her it was wrong to stuff her clothes in the corner after you took the trouble to wash them is presumptuous! Did she ASK you to wash them?? These are backhanded controlling "favors", sort of like tying someone up and force-feeding them and then accusing them of being an ingrate for not swallowing fast enough for you!! This is why she flew into a rage. She was resentful but didn’t even have the words at that moment to tell Charlene how MUCH she resented that sort of efforts at "molding" her, which is the single most insulting thing a parent can do to a teenager. And make no mistake, if she was 11 and not a teenager she wouldn’t act like that. If you don’t try to control a teen they will act adult, but to the very degree you try to control and "mold" them they will hate your guts and fly into rages. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If only I had read the advice earlier tonight from KidDoc and Dorothy (on > my > last post about the morning incident with my 11 yr old) maybe what > happened > tonight wouldn’t have happened. First let me give you all my excuses: I > have > been having an extremely stressful week so far with three kids while DH is > out of town on business, I’m pregnant (!) and tonight everyone in the > house > was cranky and stressed, we got home late from a school play, and then at > 9:00 I found out that my oldest (the 11 yr old) didn’t pack yet for an > overnight school trip tomorrow, which she was supposed to have done before > 7:00 tonight, but spent her time outside with her friends instead, telling > me that she was done packing. (phew!) So by 10:00pm, near exhaustion, she > had her bedroom totally turned upside down looking for a hat that she > lost. > I came in to help her find it in amongst the mess, and then I saw what got > me very upset. Now all of you I’m sure are going to find this completely > trivial I’m sure, but what the heck, I’m venting here! > my girls have the responsibility of putting away their clean clothes after > I > have washed and folded them. The older one has always shirked this > responsibility, and I often find the clothes, clean and folded, stuffed > under her bookshelf, in the closet under her toys, etc. which gets me > quite > upset. Just as recently as Sunday we found a whole bunch, and she got an > allowance deduction, plus she was told to put them away, properly, ASAP. > Well tonight, in a closed box in a corner of her room, under a bunch of > beanie babies and stuff, were all the clothes we found on Sunday, PLUS the > ones I washed on Monday, and some dirty ones thrown in also.  By this > time, > I had reached my limit. I had one nerve left, and she got on it. I started > by lecturing, saying, "Why did you do this? Even after we asked you so > many > times not to…" she yells back at me, "I DIDN"T DO IT!" I yelled back at > her, " Oh really? Well who did then? Take responsibility for yourself for > once" and the shouting match was on….."YOU did it! I saw you do it! YOU > just don’t remember!" She says to me. That was it, I know for a fact that > I > did not do this. Why in the heck would I? I just went on a yelling tirade > about this stupid clean clothes not put away thing, and about her blaming > me > for something that she was done over and over herself. She was BAWLING > hysterically, throwing clothes around her room, screaming, and I stood > there > watching, then suddenly I honestly felt like hurting her. I really did. I > have never felt this way about a child in my life, and it scares me that I > did tonight. I ran over to her with my hand raised, and came SO close to > slapping her, but didn’t (thank God) I ended up grabbing her tightly and > hugging her, saying "Calm down…calm down…" I don’t know if I was > talking > to her as much as to myself. I was literally shaking, and my heart was > pounding a mile a minute. With the amount of adrenaline that was in me I > probably could have really hurt the child. > I apologized to her later, and told her that I was sorry for yelling at > her > and that there really wasn’t any excuse for it. I told her that I really > did > love her, even though it seems like I don’t a lot. I told her that when I > grew up my mom yelled at me a lot and I got hit all the time, and I need > to > learn better ways to discipline kids. I know this is true. (I am NOT > blaming > my parents for this, but I do think how we are raised has a lot to do with > how we treat our kids, and I was raised with a tremendous amount of > physical > and verbal abuse. I think now I know how my mom felt!) > I know now that this whole thing was over something that really means > nothing in the long run, and I need to change the way I react to these > things. Thank you for reading, and thanks for the good advice that I’ve > been > getting. (well, for the most part, anyway) I’ve taken up enough of my time > and yours now… > Charlene

Response:

> Hi Charlene > I am sorry but I do not understand what you did wrong you shouted at your > Daughter because she was naughty and she knows it.

If she DID "know it" she wouldn’t have "done it". So you’re wrong, aren’t you? >You came close to hitting her > but you did not. Your daughter had no right to stuff her clothes all over > especially since you had taken the time to wash and dry them.

But why then did she DO that if she "had no right". You see? Rules don’t mean shit in the face of feelings!! What we SAY is "right" doesn’t MAKE it "right". > Your daughter > should not have lied to you and told you her bag was ready when it was not and > mostly your daughter should not have shouted at you.

It’s really like you never asked WHY about ANYTHING!! You keep saying things "should" be this way or that way, but when they clearly are NOT that way you seem surprised. Your "shoulds" don’t work or they WOULD work!! If they DON’T work then they are WRONG!! > She also tried to make you > out to be stupid by denying that she had put the clothes there and saying you > did.

But what was her REASON for indicating falsehood to something that was so obviously true? I think she was indicating a deeper truth about her resentment of her mother that needs to be paid attention to. > So from what I have read your Daughter is the one that should be > apologizing not you. > Annie

You really don’t understand this, do you? It’s sort of like all you can see is the superficial rule-based play, not the underlying themes on which depend our real feelings. You can do the "right thing" and still be wrong, and you don’t get that. What works is what is REALLY right, and not being your child’s friend is what isn’t right and leads to daughter and mothers too finally feeling alone and unloved and depressed. You seem to be the kind who might say to a depressed friend "just come off it", and expect that to work, and you’ll be puzzled when it doesn’t. You need to look far deeper in your understandings of things and people. Steve

Response:

<<<big hug>>> Isn’t it terrible when your kids push your buttons to the point that you feel like you did!  But, we are people, too, and sometimes it is very hard to remain the parent in the midst of stuff.  I am very glad you did not hit her, as I am sure you are too.  I have read one suggestion that sounded very interesting about how to handle putting away the clothes in the future, but let me share a different thought that *might* also be something to consider. You might want to sit down with her, when you are not in the middle of a confrontation and tell her that you find that she cannot be trusted to do what she is asked.  So, you are going to be watching her do what you ask her to do for a while, and checking up on her regularly as soon as she says that she has done it.  She may not like this [I wouldn't have at her age], but it may help her get back on the right foot of doing what she is asked instead of lying about it to you.  The pattern of lying about what she is/not doing is becoming established and could well spread into things like what she was doing when she was out with her buddies, etc.  Giving her the clear message that you cannot quite trust her right now when she tells you something but that there is a way to earn that trust back may nip something in the bud before it becomes really serious.  [disclaimer:  not all children who lie about doing their homework, packing for trips, and putting away laundry become juvenile delinquents]. Hang in there. -Aula

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If only I had read the advice earlier tonight from KidDoc and Dorothy (on my > last post about the morning incident with my 11 yr old) maybe what happened > tonight wouldn’t have happened. First let me give you all my excuses: I have > been having an extremely stressful week so far with three kids while DH is > out of town on business, I’m pregnant (!) and tonight everyone in the house > was cranky and stressed, we got home late from a school play, and then at > 9:00 I found out that my oldest (the 11 yr old) didn’t pack yet for an > overnight school trip tomorrow, which she was supposed to have done before > 7:00 tonight, but spent her time outside with her friends instead, telling > me that she was done packing. (phew!) So by 10:00pm, near exhaustion, she > had her bedroom totally turned upside down looking for a hat that she lost. > I came in to help her find it in amongst the mess, and then I saw what got > me very upset. Now all of you I’m sure are going to find this completely > trivial I’m sure, but what the heck, I’m venting here! > my girls have the responsibility of putting away their clean clothes after I > have washed and folded them. The older one has always shirked this > responsibility, and I often find the clothes, clean and folded, stuffed > under her bookshelf, in the closet under her toys, etc. which gets me quite > upset. Just as recently as Sunday we found a whole bunch, and she got an > allowance deduction, plus she was told to put them away, properly, ASAP. > Well tonight, in a closed box in a corner of her room, under a bunch of > beanie babies and stuff, were all the clothes we found on Sunday, PLUS the > ones I washed on Monday, and some dirty ones thrown in also.  By this time, > I had reached my limit. I had one nerve left, and she got on it. I started > by lecturing, saying, "Why did you do this? Even after we asked you so many > times not to…" she yells back at me, "I DIDN"T DO IT!" I yelled back at > her, " Oh really? Well who did then? Take responsibility for yourself for > once" and the shouting match was on….."YOU did it! I saw you do it! YOU > just don’t remember!" She says to me. That was it, I know for a fact that I > did not do this. Why in the heck would I? I just went on a yelling tirade > about this stupid clean clothes not put away thing, and about her blaming me > for something that she was done over and over herself. She was BAWLING > hysterically, throwing clothes around her room, screaming, and I stood there > watching, then suddenly I honestly felt like hurting her. I really did. I > have never felt this way about a child in my life, and it scares me that I > did tonight. I ran over to her with my hand raised, and came SO close to > slapping her, but didn’t (thank God) I ended up grabbing her tightly and > hugging her, saying "Calm down…calm down…" I don’t know if I was talking > to her as much as to myself. I was literally shaking, and my heart was > pounding a mile a minute. With the amount of adrenaline that was in me I > probably could have really hurt the child. > I apologized to her later, and told her that I was sorry for yelling at her > and that there really wasn’t any excuse for it. I told her that I really did > love her, even though it seems like I don’t a lot. I told her that when I > grew up my mom yelled at me a lot and I got hit all the time, and I need to > learn better ways to discipline kids. I know this is true. (I am NOT blaming > my parents for this, but I do think how we are raised has a lot to do with > how we treat our kids, and I was raised with a tremendous amount of physical > and verbal abuse. I think now I know how my mom felt!) > I know now that this whole thing was over something that really means > nothing in the long run, and I need to change the way I react to these > things. Thank you for reading, and thanks for the good advice that I’ve been > getting. (well, for the most part, anyway) I’ve taken up enough of my time > and yours now… > Charlene

Response:

>I ran over to her with my hand raised, and came SO close to > slapping her, but didn’t (thank God) I ended up grabbing her tightly and > hugging her, saying "Calm down…calm down…" I don’t know if I was talking > to her as much as to myself. I was literally shaking, and my heart was > pounding a mile a minute. With the amount of adrenaline that was in me I > probably could have really hurt the child. > I apologized to her later, and told her that I was sorry for yelling at her > and that there really wasn’t any excuse for it. I told her that I really did > love her, even though it seems like I don’t a lot. I told her that when I > grew up my mom yelled at me a lot and I got hit all the time, and I need to > learn better ways to discipline kids. I know this is true.

As long as you know the problem with  the whole "authority"-thing now then you’ve got a hold of it and you can change it. Catching yourself is the first step. Next is remembering what made you so angry to start with, and after that is getting ahold of why your daughter makes you so angry (actually afraid). >(I am NOT blaming > my parents for this, but I do think how we are raised has a lot to do with > how we treat our kids, and I was raised with a tremendous amount of physical > and verbal abuse. I think now I know how my mom felt!)

It’s alright to blame your parents, it was their fault, but they could blame their parents as well. They couldn’t help it at the time, they were blinded by their OWN rage and insecurity. > I know now that this whole thing was over something that really means > nothing in the long run, and I need to change the way I react to these > things. Thank you for reading, and thanks for the good advice that I’ve been > getting. (well, for the most part, anyway) I’ve taken up enough of my time > and yours now… > Charlene

It gets better then more you let these kinds of realizations into your life. Steve

Response:

Hi Charlene, It’s ok you know, everyone looses it now and then, and you managed to stop yourself before you did something you could not take back. Good on you. I have a suggestion though.  It is kindof tough love.  I suggest you just let her bedroom to her except for helping to vacuum and clean once a week or so.   Tell her that her cloths   are her responsibility, she has to put them in the wash, and put them away, and if she does not she has to live with the consiquences, ie dirty cloths.  I did this with my two about a year ago, 10 & 15 and it has worked well.  There have been a few times when they have had to go to school a bit dirty, but it taught them responsibility, and now I hardly have to mention it at all, except to say get your washing, I’m doing the washing soon. Hope you have a better day tomorrow. Annemarie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If only I had read the advice earlier tonight from KidDoc and Dorothy (on my > last post about the morning incident with my 11 yr old) maybe what happened > tonight wouldn’t have happened. First let me give you all my excuses: I have > been having an extremely stressful week so far with three kids while DH is > out of town on business, I’m pregnant (!) and tonight everyone in the house > was cranky and stressed, we got home late from a school play, and then at > 9:00 I found out that my oldest (the 11 yr old) didn’t pack yet for an > overnight school trip tomorrow, which she was supposed to have done before > 7:00 tonight, but spent her time outside with her friends instead, telling > me that she was done packing. (phew!) So by 10:00pm, near exhaustion, she > had her bedroom totally turned upside down looking for a hat that she lost. > I came in to help her find it in amongst the mess, and then I saw what got > me very upset. Now all of you I’m sure are going to find this completely > trivial I’m sure, but what the heck, I’m venting here! > my girls have the responsibility of putting away their clean clothes after I > have washed and folded them. The older one has always shirked this > responsibility, and I often find the clothes, clean and folded, stuffed > under her bookshelf, in the closet under her toys, etc. which gets me quite > upset. Just as recently as Sunday we found a whole bunch, and she got an > allowance deduction, plus she was told to put them away, properly, ASAP. > Well tonight, in a closed box in a corner of her room, under a bunch of > beanie babies and stuff, were all the clothes we found on Sunday, PLUS the > ones I washed on Monday, and some dirty ones thrown in also.  By this time, > I had reached my limit. I had one nerve left, and she got on it. I started > by lecturing, saying, "Why did you do this? Even after we asked you so many > times not to…" she yells back at me, "I DIDN"T DO IT!" I yelled back at > her, " Oh really? Well who did then? Take responsibility for yourself for > once" and the shouting match was on….."YOU did it! I saw you do it! YOU > just don’t remember!" She says to me. That was it, I know for a fact that I > did not do this. Why in the heck would I? I just went on a yelling tirade > about this stupid clean clothes not put away thing, and about her blaming me > for something that she was done over and over herself. She was BAWLING > hysterically, throwing clothes around her room, screaming, and I stood there > watching, then suddenly I honestly felt like hurting her. I really did. I > have never felt this way about a child in my life, and it scares me that I > did tonight. I ran over to her with my hand raised, and came SO close to > slapping her, but didn’t (thank God) I ended up grabbing her tightly and > hugging her, saying "Calm down…calm down…" I don’t know if I was talking > to her as much as to myself. I was literally shaking, and my heart was > pounding a mile a minute. With the amount of adrenaline that was in me I > probably could have really hurt the child. > I apologized to her later, and told her that I was sorry for yelling at her > and that there really wasn’t any excuse for it. I told her that I really did > love her, even though it seems like I don’t a lot. I told her that when I > grew up my mom yelled at me a lot and I got hit all the time, and I need to > learn better ways to discipline kids. I know this is true. (I am NOT blaming > my parents for this, but I do think how we are raised has a lot to do with > how we treat our kids, and I was raised with a tremendous amount of physical > and verbal abuse. I think now I know how my mom felt!) > I know now that this whole thing was over something that really means > nothing in the long run, and I need to change the way I react to these > things. Thank you for reading, and thanks for the good advice that I’ve been > getting. (well, for the most part, anyway) I’ve taken up enough of my time > and yours now… > Charlene

Response:

If only I had read the advice earlier tonight from KidDoc and Dorothy (on my last post about the morning incident with my 11 yr old) maybe what happened tonight wouldn’t have happened. First let me give you all my excuses: I have been having an extremely stressful week so far with three kids while DH is out of town on business, I’m pregnant (!) and tonight everyone in the house was cranky and stressed, we got home late from a school play, and then at 9:00 I found out that my oldest (the 11 yr old) didn’t pack yet for an overnight school trip tomorrow, which she was supposed to have done before 7:00 tonight, but spent her time outside with her friends instead, telling me that she was done packing. (phew!) So by 10:00pm, near exhaustion, she had her bedroom totally turned upside down looking for a hat that she lost. I came in to help her find it in amongst the mess, and then I saw what got me very upset. Now all of you I’m sure are going to find this completely trivial I’m sure, but what the heck, I’m venting here! my girls have the responsibility of putting away their clean clothes after I have washed and folded them. The older one has always shirked this responsibility, and I often find the clothes, clean and folded, stuffed under her bookshelf, in the closet under her toys, etc. which gets me quite upset. Just as recently as Sunday we found a whole bunch, and she got an allowance deduction, plus she was told to put them away, properly, ASAP. Well tonight, in a closed box in a corner of her room, under a bunch of beanie babies and stuff, were all the clothes we found on Sunday, PLUS the ones I washed on Monday, and some dirty ones thrown in also.  By this time, I had reached my limit. I had one nerve left, and she got on it. I started by lecturing, saying, "Why did you do this? Even after we asked you so many times not to…" she yells back at me, "I DIDN"T DO IT!" I yelled back at her, " Oh really? Well who did then? Take responsibility for yourself for once" and the shouting match was on….."YOU did it! I saw you do it! YOU just don’t remember!" She says to me. That was it, I know for a fact that I did not do this. Why in the heck would I? I just went on a yelling tirade about this stupid clean clothes not put away thing, and about her blaming me for something that she was done over and over herself. She was BAWLING hysterically, throwing clothes around her room, screaming, and I stood there watching, then suddenly I honestly felt like hurting her. I really did. I have never felt this way about a child in my life, and it scares me that I did tonight. I ran over to her with my hand raised, and came SO close to slapping her, but didn’t (thank God) I ended up grabbing her tightly and hugging her, saying "Calm down…calm down…" I don’t know if I was talking to her as much as to myself. I was literally shaking, and my heart was pounding a mile a minute. With the amount of adrenaline that was in me I probably could have really hurt the child. I apologized to her later, and told her that I was sorry for yelling at her and that there really wasn’t any excuse for it. I told her that I really did love her, even though it seems like I don’t a lot. I told her that when I grew up my mom yelled at me a lot and I got hit all the time, and I need to learn better ways to discipline kids. I know this is true. (I am NOT blaming my parents for this, but I do think how we are raised has a lot to do with how we treat our kids, and I was raised with a tremendous amount of physical and verbal abuse. I think now I know how my mom felt!) I know now that this whole thing was over something that really means nothing in the long run, and I need to change the way I react to these things. Thank you for reading, and thanks for the good advice that I’ve been getting. (well, for the most part, anyway) I’ve taken up enough of my time and yours now… Charlene

Response:

Hi. Really, you showed a lot of control. She really took the clothes you laundered and folded yourself and jammed them in with a bunch of toys and dirty stuff? My first thought was that we were really poor when I was 11. We kids were growing fast, and I had not yet begun to raid charity boxes for clothes. I didn’t OWN 5 day’s worth of school clothes. Not enough clothes to fill a drawer. All three kids each had a single drawer in a dresser. We only needed the one dresser. Could it be that your child has so much stuff she can’t manage it all? I can remember hand washing socks on Wednesday to get through the week.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If only I had read the advice earlier tonight from KidDoc and Dorothy (on my > last post about the morning incident with my 11 yr old) maybe what happened > tonight wouldn’t have happened. First let me give you all my excuses: I have > been having an extremely stressful week so far with three kids while DH is > out of town on business, I’m pregnant (!) and tonight everyone in the house > was cranky and stressed, we got home late from a school play, and then at > 9:00 I found out that my oldest (the 11 yr old) didn’t pack yet for an > overnight school trip tomorrow, which she was supposed to have done before > 7:00 tonight, but spent her time outside with her friends instead, telling > me that she was done packing. (phew!) So by 10:00pm, near exhaustion, she > had her bedroom totally turned upside down looking for a hat that she lost. > I came in to help her find it in amongst the mess, and then I saw what got > me very upset. Now all of you I’m sure are going to find this completely > trivial I’m sure, but what the heck, I’m venting here! > my girls have the responsibility of putting away their clean clothes after I > have washed and folded them. The older one has always shirked this > responsibility, and I often find the clothes, clean and folded, stuffed > under her bookshelf, in the closet under her toys, etc. which gets me quite > upset. Just as recently as Sunday we found a whole bunch, and she got an > allowance deduction, plus she was told to put them away, properly, ASAP. > Well tonight, in a closed box in a corner of her room, under a bunch of > beanie babies and stuff, were all the clothes we found on Sunday, PLUS the > ones I washed on Monday, and some dirty ones thrown in also.  By this time, > I had reached my limit. I had one nerve left, and she got on it. I started > by lecturing, saying, "Why did you do this? Even after we asked you so many > times not to…" she yells back at me, "I DIDN"T DO IT!" I yelled back at > her, " Oh really? Well who did then? Take responsibility for yourself for > once" and the shouting match was on….."YOU did it! I saw you do it! YOU > just don’t remember!" She says to me. That was it, I know for a fact that I > did not do this. Why in the heck would I? I just went on a yelling tirade > about this stupid clean clothes not put away thing, and about her blaming me > for something that she was done over and over herself. She was BAWLING > hysterically, throwing clothes around her room, screaming, and I stood there > watching, then suddenly I honestly felt like hurting her. I really did. I > have never felt this way about a child in my life, and it scares me that I > did tonight. I ran over to her with my hand raised, and came SO close to > slapping her, but didn’t (thank God) I ended up grabbing her tightly and > hugging her, saying "Calm down…calm down…" I don’t know if I was talking > to her as much as to myself. I was literally shaking, and my heart was > pounding a mile a minute. With the amount of adrenaline that was in me I > probably could have really hurt the child. > I apologized to her later, and told her that I was sorry for yelling at her > and that there really wasn’t any excuse for it. I told her that I really did > love her, even though it seems like I don’t a lot. I told her that when I > grew up my mom yelled at me a lot and I got hit all the time, and I need to > learn better ways to discipline kids. I know this is true. (I am NOT blaming > my parents for this, but I do think how we are raised has a lot to do with > how we treat our kids, and I was raised with a tremendous amount of physical > and verbal abuse. I think now I know how my mom felt!) > I know now that this whole thing was over something that really means > nothing in the long run, and I need to change the way I react to these > things. Thank you for reading, and thanks for the good advice that I’ve been > getting. (well, for the most part, anyway) I’ve taken up enough of my time > and yours now… > Charlene

Response:

Hi Charlene I am sorry but I do not understand what you did wrong you shouted at your Daughter because she was naughty and she knows it.You came close to hitting her but you did not. Your daughter had no right to stuff her clothes all over especially since you had taken the time to wash and dry them. Your daughter should not have lied to you and told you her bag was ready when it was not and mostly your daughter should not have shouted at you. She also tried to make you out to be stupid by denying that she had put the clothes there and saying you did. So from what I have read your Daughter is the one that should be apologizing not you. Annie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > If only I had read the advice earlier tonight from KidDoc and Dorothy (on my > last post about the morning incident with my 11 yr old) maybe what happened > tonight wouldn’t have happened. First let me give you all my excuses: I have > been having an extremely stressful week so far with three kids while DH is > out of town on business, I’m pregnant (!) and tonight everyone in the house > was cranky and stressed, we got home late from a school play, and then at > 9:00 I found out that my oldest (the 11 yr old) didn’t pack yet for an > overnight school trip tomorrow, which she was supposed to have done before > 7:00 tonight, but spent her time outside with her friends instead, telling > me that she was done packing. (phew!) So by 10:00pm, near exhaustion, she > had her bedroom totally turned upside down looking for a hat that she lost. > I came in to help her find it in amongst the mess, and then I saw what got > me very upset. Now all of you I’m sure are going to find this completely > trivial I’m sure, but what the heck, I’m venting here! > my girls have the responsibility of putting away their clean clothes after I > have washed and folded them. The older one has always shirked this > responsibility, and I often find the clothes, clean and folded, stuffed > under her bookshelf, in the closet under her toys, etc. which gets me quite > upset. Just as recently as Sunday we found a whole bunch, and she got an > allowance deduction, plus she was told to put them away, properly, ASAP. > Well tonight, in a closed box in a corner of her room, under a bunch of > beanie babies and stuff, were all the clothes we found on Sunday, PLUS the > ones I washed on Monday, and some dirty ones thrown in also.  By this time, > I had reached my limit. I had one nerve left, and she got on it. I started > by lecturing, saying, "Why did you do this? Even after we asked you so many > times not to…" she yells back at me, "I DIDN"T DO IT!" I yelled back at > her, " Oh really? Well who did then? Take responsibility for yourself for > once" and the shouting match was on….."YOU did it! I saw you do it! YOU > just don’t remember!" She says to me. That was it, I know for a fact that I > did not do this. Why in the heck would I? I just went on a yelling tirade > about this stupid clean clothes not put away thing, and about her blaming me > for something that she was done over and over herself. She was BAWLING > hysterically, throwing clothes around her room, screaming, and I stood there > watching, then suddenly I honestly felt like hurting her. I really did. I > have never felt this way about a child in my life, and it scares me that I > did tonight. I ran over to her with my hand raised, and came SO close to > slapping her, but didn’t (thank God) I ended up grabbing her tightly and > hugging her, saying "Calm down…calm down…" I don’t know if I was talking > to her as much as to myself. I was literally shaking, and my heart was > pounding a mile a minute. With the amount of adrenaline that was in me I > probably could have really hurt the child. > I apologized to her later, and told her that I was sorry for yelling at her > and that there really wasn’t any excuse for it. I told her that I really did > love her, even though it seems like I don’t a lot. I told her that when I > grew up my mom yelled at me a lot and I got hit all the time, and I need to > learn better ways to discipline kids. I know this is true. (I am NOT blaming > my parents for this, but I do think how we are raised has a lot to do with > how we treat our kids, and I was raised with a tremendous amount of physical > and verbal abuse. I think now I know how my mom felt!) > I know now that this whole thing was over something that really means > nothing in the long run, and I need to change the way I react to these > things. Thank you for reading, and thanks for the good advice that I’ve been > getting. (well, for the most part, anyway) I’ve taken up enough of my time > and yours now… > Charlene

Response: