Pure Parents

Question:

My niece and my daughter are the same age and love each other to pieces. My niece lives with my parents and her mother.   Her "father" has never really wanted to take any responsibility for her and owes more than $1000 in child support.   My sister and this man have never been married. I have made an agreement with my parents and my sister that I would take my niece in if they all were to die but I will not do so as long as my sister is alive because she can be very hard to deal with at times.  I love my sister but know it could cause more friction if this came to pass. My husband and I believe that our only daughter comes first.   We are not responsible and as cold and harsh as that may sound, we are only protecting our daughter and ourselves. I know I am going to get some rash responses to this note but I am not concerned about that because I know I would be doing the right thing. Teach

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hey Jerry, > A few years ago I volunteered to be a chaperone on my daughter’s class > trip to a NY city zoo.> > > Do the best you can. And when it gets harder, try harder. > And when the kid does something wrong give him a hug. It’ll probably > be the first one he ever got. Tell him you don’t want to see that kind > of misbehavior again. > All the best, Dan Sullivan > many years ago I was a brand new high school teacher and had a similar > experience when is was assigned ‘Billy ‘ whom the other teachers were > going on and on about — like you, I decided I was not going to overreact > to this kid’s first misbehavior like it was his 12th — I was going to > give him a clean slate. > I had 150 students a day — so I can’t say I gave him that much attention > — but I did listen, show interest, respond seriously to his work and > generally try to give him some space to contribute. > He was fine all year in my class. > At the end of the year, his father wrote me a letter saying that it was > the first class he had enjoyed and that he was thrilled that his son had > had such a good year in a subject the father loved and taught himself in > another school – but the kid had always hated.  I wasn’t that good.  I was > just decent to this kid and he responded. > applied the same principle later with foster kids and you are right — > expectations and confidence goes a long way

Many years ago I read some documented experiments about reading teachers NOT getting background info on kids in their classes until some time later in the year — precisely BECAUSE of the opinions teachers formed from reading the BG info. In the instance of the experiments, children who had been doing poorly all of a sudden were reading much better, simply because the teacher had no previous expectations of poor results. Marilynn

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hey Jerry, > A few years ago I volunteered to be a chaperone on my daughter’s class > trip to a NY city zoo. In the morning on the way to the school my > daughter said, "I sure hope James isn’t in our group." I asked her > what the problem was with James. She told me he was the worst kid in > the class. He got into trouble every day, more than all the other kids > put together. Always up for a challenge I was actually hoping James > was gonna be in our group so I could see how well I could get James to > act during the trip, not by being a disciplinarian, but by treating > him like a person. > As soon as we walked into the classroom, the teacher came over and > told me that I would be chaperoning only one child other than my > daughter. You guessed it, JAMES! > All my daughter could do was moan, "Oh, daddy!" > BTW all the other chaperones were women; mothers, teachers aides, etc. > They probably thought out of all of the adults going on the trip a man > would have the best chance of keeping James in line. > Anyhow, the teacher brought me over and introduced me to James. > I said, "Hi James, my name is Dan and we are gonna have a GREAT day > today, and all you have to do is listen to me." That was it, simple, > everything he needed to know. I treated him no different than I > treated my own daughter. In the bus on the way to the city we talked > about the zoo and what animals they really wanted to see. When we got > there we checked out the animals and the exibits and I asked him and > my daughter what they thought about all the different things they saw, > which animals they liked the best, etc… Not once did James even seem > like he was about to give me any trouble about anything! As time went > on during the day I could see my daughter changing her attitude > towards James. She came to realize he was as nice a kid as anyone else > in the class. It’s just that James got his attention by acting out, > and he’d gotten a bad reputation because of it, and that tainted > everybody’s expectations of him. > All during the trip about every fifteen minutes one of the other > chaperones would come over and ask if everything was alright with > James. I kept telling them, "No problem at all." I could see from > their faces they thought I was holding something back, but it was the > truth. James was as good as gold! > My daughter turned into James’ best friend in the class. > At the end of the school year all the parents could come in and see > what their child had done in class. When I walked in I found my > daughter and then looked for James so I could say hello. There he was > sitting all by himself, bright red face, tears welling up in his eyes. > I asked him what the matter was and he told me both of his parents > worked and no one was gonna come in and see what he’d done. I told > him, "James, you’re coming with me. I want you to show me everything." > And I took him and all his stuff over to my daughter’s table. His face > beamed. One of the papers the school had the kids fill out was a > questionaire obviously done by a social worker type prying into what > the homelife was like for the kids. One of the questions was a finish > the sentence type thing. It started off, "If I was the boss in my > house, I would…" And James had written, "get rid of all the credit > cards." > Here’s a kid in a first grade class worrying about credit card bills! > Your 10 year old needs the pressure taken off like James needed his > pressure taken off. > Treat this little boy like he’s the best kid in the world and take it > from there. Love him like he’s your own. Never say anything bad about > where he came from or who he came from. Don’t offer any opinions about > anything that happened prior to him walking through your front door. > Let him know what he has to do and who he has to listen to. > Read a book called, "How To Make Your Children Mind, Without Losing > Yours." by Kevin Leman. > Do the best you can. And when it gets harder, try harder. > And when the kid does something wrong give him a hug. It’ll probably > be the first one he ever got. Tell him you don’t want to see that kind > of misbehavior again. > All the best, Dan Sullivan

I’m impressed Dan.   Seriously.  A well written post, and a very interesting story.  Thanks Ron

Response:

> Hey Jerry, > A few years ago I volunteered to be a chaperone on my daughter’s class > trip to a NY city zoo. In the morning on the way to the school my > daughter said, "I sure hope James isn’t in our group." I asked her > what the problem was with James. She told me he was the worst kid in > the class. He got into trouble every day, more than all the other kids > put together. Always up for a challenge I was actually hoping James > was gonna be in our group so I could see how well I could get James to > act during the trip, not by being a disciplinarian, but by treating > him like a person.

God you’re a wonderful person. You’re so wise and truthful. No one would think for a second you made up this story of your greatness to impress yourself. You’re just – well – a wonderful person. Keep up the good work sugar. Your socks love you. Miss Molly

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Marie; > > I would’ve if I were younger and able to.  Especially a baby.  I was > >just pointing out that from what the guy wrote about this kids parents, > >he has been badly damaged and neglected already (and I don’t mean the > >way Steve does).  It is quite hard to turn this kids around, it can be > >done – but not likely. > >We took in my husband’s sister when she was 15 – she’d been giving > >trouble to parents since she was 8 or 9.  Stealing, flunking out of > >school, drugs, arrested for prostituion, the whole ball of wax.  We took > >her from the detention center, brought her home to her own room with > >nice furniture, put her in counseling, bought her clothes, worked with > >her everyday, she had friends over (we had a pool at that time).  We > >tried our best even sometimes I thought at the expense of our two sons > >who were 4 and 5 and the time. > >It ended up with her flunking out of school, lying, drinking, the hells > >angels tore up our yard with motorcycles one day and she finished off by > >stealing everything in the house that wasn’t nailed down including > >clothes. > >My hubby didn’t want to do it, I talked him into it.  I really wanted to > >make it easier for her so she didn’t have to go it alone – but it wasn’t > >possible. > >She ended up married twice and had four children with no husband, and > >gave two of them away. > Abused her somemore, eh? You found out what that gets you. Now you’re > simply defending your own stupidity. > Steve >You can’t judge a person until you have walked a mile in their moccasins.

I can if I’ve walked behind them in their bloody trail barefoot and slipped in the gore they have left, and cleaned it up after them. Steve

Response:

Dan;         I almost wanted to cry reading this, that poor little boy – bless you for your understanding and love you gave him.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hey Jerry, > A few years ago I volunteered to be a chaperone on my daughter’s class > trip to a NY city zoo. In the morning on the way to the school my > daughter said, "I sure hope James isn’t in our group." I asked her > what the problem was with James. She told me he was the worst kid in > the class. He got into trouble every day, more than all the other kids > put together. Always up for a challenge I was actually hoping James > was gonna be in our group so I could see how well I could get James to > act during the trip, not by being a disciplinarian, but by treating > him like a person. > As soon as we walked into the classroom, the teacher came over and > told me that I would be chaperoning only one child other than my > daughter. You guessed it, JAMES! > All my daughter could do was moan, "Oh, daddy!" > BTW all the other chaperones were women; mothers, teachers aides, etc. > They probably thought out of all of the adults going on the trip a man > would have the best chance of keeping James in line. > Anyhow, the teacher brought me over and introduced me to James. > I said, "Hi James, my name is Dan and we are gonna have a GREAT day > today, and all you have to do is listen to me." That was it, simple, > everything he needed to know. I treated him no different than I > treated my own daughter. In the bus on the way to the city we talked > about the zoo and what animals they really wanted to see. When we got > there we checked out the animals and the exibits and I asked him and > my daughter what they thought about all the different things they saw, > which animals they liked the best, etc… Not once did James even seem > like he was about to give me any trouble about anything! As time went > on during the day I could see my daughter changing her attitude > towards James. She came to realize he was as nice a kid as anyone else > in the class. It’s just that James got his attention by acting out, > and he’d gotten a bad reputation because of it, and that tainted > everybody’s expectations of him. > All during the trip about every fifteen minutes one of the other > chaperones would come over and ask if everything was alright with > James. I kept telling them, "No problem at all." I could see from > their faces they thought I was holding something back, but it was the > truth. James was as good as gold! > My daughter turned into James’ best friend in the class. > At the end of the school year all the parents could come in and see > what their child had done in class. When I walked in I found my > daughter and then looked for James so I could say hello. There he was > sitting all by himself, bright red face, tears welling up in his eyes. > I asked him what the matter was and he told me both of his parents > worked and no one was gonna come in and see what he’d done. I told > him, "James, you’re coming with me. I want you to show me everything." > And I took him and all his stuff over to my daughter’s table. His face > beamed. One of the papers the school had the kids fill out was a > questionaire obviously done by a social worker type prying into what > the homelife was like for the kids. One of the questions was a finish > the sentence type thing. It started off, "If I was the boss in my > house, I would…" And James had written, "get rid of all the credit > cards." > Here’s a kid in a first grade class worrying about credit card bills! > Your 10 year old needs the pressure taken off like James needed his > pressure taken off. > Treat this little boy like he’s the best kid in the world and take it > from there. Love him like he’s your own. Never say anything bad about > where he came from or who he came from. Don’t offer any opinions about > anything that happened prior to him walking through your front door. > Let him know what he has to do and who he has to listen to. > Read a book called, "How To Make Your Children Mind, Without Losing > Yours." by Kevin Leman. > Do the best you can. And when it gets harder, try harder. > And when the kid does something wrong give him a hug. It’ll probably > be the first one he ever got. Tell him you don’t want to see that kind > of misbehavior again. > All the best, Dan Sullivan

many years ago I was a brand new high school teacher and had a similar experience when is was assigned ‘Billy ‘ whom the other teachers were going on and on about — like you, I decided I was not going to overreact to this kid’s first misbehavior like it was his 12th — I was going to give him a clean slate. I had 150 students a day — so I can’t say I gave him that much attention — but I did listen, show interest, respond seriously to his work and generally try to give him some space to contribute. He was fine all year in my class. At the end of the year, his father wrote me a letter saying that it was the first class he had enjoyed and that he was thrilled that his son had had such a good year in a subject the father loved and taught himself in another school – but the kid had always hated.  I wasn’t that good.  I was just decent to this kid and he responded. applied the same principle later with foster kids and you are right — expectations and confidence goes a long way

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Marie; > > I would’ve if I were younger and able to.  Especially a baby.  I was > >just pointing out that from what the guy wrote about this kids parents, > >he has been badly damaged and neglected already (and I don’t mean the > >way Steve does).  It is quite hard to turn this kids around, it can be > >done – but not likely. > >We took in my husband’s sister when she was 15 – she’d been giving > >trouble to parents since she was 8 or 9.  Stealing, flunking out of > >school, drugs, arrested for prostituion, the whole ball of wax.  We took > >her from the detention center, brought her home to her own room with > >nice furniture, put her in counseling, bought her clothes, worked with > >her everyday, she had friends over (we had a pool at that time).  We > >tried our best even sometimes I thought at the expense of our two sons > >who were 4 and 5 and the time. > >It ended up with her flunking out of school, lying, drinking, the hells > >angels tore up our yard with motorcycles one day and she finished off by > >stealing everything in the house that wasn’t nailed down including > >clothes. > >My hubby didn’t want to do it, I talked him into it.  I really wanted to > >make it easier for her so she didn’t have to go it alone – but it wasn’t > >possible. > >She ended up married twice and had four children with no husband, and > >gave two of them away. > Abused her somemore, eh? You found out what that gets you. Now you’re > simply defending your own stupidity. > Steve > You can’t judge a person until you have walked a mile in their moccasins. > Mary Ellen

Nah, he can do it anytime, and does. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Yes, it was awful.  This girl was tall, beautiful, blonde, and had everything going for her except maturity and most of that was due to her parents.  Her birth father gave her up which in the end was the best for her, since he set about having sex with most of his other daughters.   Most of her life was spent with relatives who did drugs, wouldn’t work, drank and you get the picture.  I don’t she ever even knew what "normal" was. Now is is 37 and her life has been awful.  She looks older than me already, like an old woman, and I really worry about the two children she kept, they are probably doomed to repeat her life since she isn’t stable.  We tried so hard with her, but she didn’t come to us until 16 and by then it is REALLY tough to change the abuse and patterns they have fallen into.  Maybe if we could’ve gotten to her earlier, I don’t know. We were very careful to make sure the boys weren’t in danger at any time, and they loved her so they were confused when she left.  Now that they are adults they remember that time and are sad for her now.  They themselves were making a LOT of bad choices but thank god are showing some signs of actually growing up and accepting responsibility.   Foster care is a VERY needed service and if you can be the special person who can cope with that, my hat is off to you.  It takes special people to give enough of themselves for that. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > That’s awful about your sister-in-law ( > When I was 15, my aunt died and my parents took in her oldest son, who was > 11, the same age as my brother. (the other children died except for one, and > that one became extremely brain damaged and needed much more than my parents > could give her at the time) They tried hard, but my cousin had been abused > in different ways also, and one day the psychologist had a meeting with my > parents and they found out that my cousin felt my brother was a threat, he > wanted our parents all to himself and my brother could have been in danger. > Things didn’t go as far as they did with your SIL though. People can really > mess up their children. If they don’t care about them, they shouldn’t > have/keep them! > Did your sons come to understand what went on? They knew you were trying to > do a good thing, right? We’ve seriously considered doing foster care once > I’m done having babies, but there is so much to consider. > Marie > Marie; > I would’ve if I were younger and able to.  Especially a baby.  I was > just pointing out that from what the guy wrote about this kids parents, > he has been badly damaged and neglected already (and I don’t mean the > way Steve does).  It is quite hard to turn this kids around, it can be > done – but not likely. > We took in my husband’s sister when she was 15 – she’d been giving > trouble to parents since she was 8 or 9.  Stealing, flunking out of > school, drugs, arrested for prostituion, the whole ball of wax.  We took > her from the detention center, brought her home to her own room with > nice furniture, put her in counseling, bought her clothes, worked with > her everyday, she had friends over (we had a pool at that time).  We > tried our best even sometimes I thought at the expense of our two sons > who were 4 and 5 and the time. > It ended up with her flunking out of school, lying, drinking, the hells > angels tore up our yard with motorcycles one day and she finished off by > stealing everything in the house that wasn’t nailed down including > clothes. > My hubby didn’t want to do it, I talked him into it.  I really wanted to > make it easier for her so she didn’t have to go it alone – but it wasn’t > possible. > She ended up married twice and had four children with no husband, and > gave two of them away. > > You don’t think you’d take in your nephew (if you have one, that is ;o)? > > Just wondering…we’ve often discussed different children in our > families > > and what would happen if they were to need somewhere to go. At one time > we > > had to seriously discuss taking in my nephew if his mother were to die, > but > > that was different as he would have been just a newborn. > > Marie > > > While I admire you and wish you all the best, I wouldn’t do this for > all > > > the tea in China. > > > > My wife’s 10 year old nephew is about to come live with us. The > reason > > that > > > > he’s coming is that he is currently neglected by his father and his > > father’s > > > > live in leech, otherwise known as girlfriend. The father is mentally > as > > old > > > > as the boy is. His IQ must be floating around the 80 range. Both > > "parents" > > > > are coke and ecstasy heads. The father lost his job a while ago and > is > > too > > > > ignorant to apply for unemployment benefits and the leech never > worked a > > > > day. The leech has an 11 year old boy and brings in various other > > wonderful > > > > people to crash at the house ranging in age from 14 to 40. To make > > things > > > > worse, the boy’s mother is a crackhead and heroin addict with > psychotic > > > > tendencies. He lived with her for the first three years. At times > she > > would > > > > leave him alone for days at a time. He was rescued by my wife and > his > > > > grandmother and sent to live with his father. > > > > He currently has a festering cavity, no shoes, few clothes, can’t > read, > > and > > > > hangs out day-in, day-out in the Wal-Mart parking lot with the local > > > > whitetrash kids. His father does nothing for him, the leech ignores > him. > > His > > > > grandmother is with him now and is bringing him here in a week. > > > > My wife and I are orders of magnitude better off then his father and > > leech. > > > > He’d be stepping into a very different world when he comes to San > > Francisco > > > > from Hawaii. I’ve met him and we get along more or less. He loves > his > > aunt > > > > very much and he’s looking forward to coming here. When he gets here > > we’re > > > > going to teach him to read, among other things and generally be real > > > > parents. The only "real" parenting he has received is from his > > grandparents, > > > > but that amounted to a total of 6 weeks out of the year. His > > grandparents > > > > now live in a different country but before two years ago lived a 3 > hour > > > > drive away. > > > > So after all that, my question is; What should I expect? What should > I > > do? > > > > What’s a common mistake in this situation. > > > > Please don’t reply to me via e-mail since I never post my real > e-mail > > here. > > > > Please post to the group. > > > > Thank You.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Marie; > I would’ve if I were younger and able to.  Especially a baby.  I was >just pointing out that from what the guy wrote about this kids parents, >he has been badly damaged and neglected already (and I don’t mean the >way Steve does).  It is quite hard to turn this kids around, it can be >done – but not likely. >We took in my husband’s sister when she was 15 – she’d been giving >trouble to parents since she was 8 or 9.  Stealing, flunking out of >school, drugs, arrested for prostituion, the whole ball of wax.  We took >her from the detention center, brought her home to her own room with >nice furniture, put her in counseling, bought her clothes, worked with >her everyday, she had friends over (we had a pool at that time).  We >tried our best even sometimes I thought at the expense of our two sons >who were 4 and 5 and the time. >It ended up with her flunking out of school, lying, drinking, the hells >angels tore up our yard with motorcycles one day and she finished off by >stealing everything in the house that wasn’t nailed down including >clothes. >My hubby didn’t want to do it, I talked him into it.  I really wanted to >make it easier for her so she didn’t have to go it alone – but it wasn’t >possible. >She ended up married twice and had four children with no husband, and >gave two of them away. > Abused her somemore, eh? You found out what that gets you. Now you’re > simply defending your own stupidity. > Steve

You can’t judge a person until you have walked a mile in their moccasins. Mary Ellen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> You don’t think you’d take in your nephew (if you have one, that is ;o)? >> Just wondering…we’ve often discussed different children in our families >> and what would happen if they were to need somewhere to go. At one time we >> had to seriously discuss taking in my nephew if his mother were to die, but >> that was different as he would have been just a newborn. >> Marie >> > While I admire you and wish you all the best, I wouldn’t do this for all >> > the tea in China. >> > > My wife’s 10 year old nephew is about to come live with us. The reason >> that >> > > he’s coming is that he is currently neglected by his father and his >> father’s >> > > live in leech, otherwise known as girlfriend. The father is mentally as >> old >> > > as the boy is. His IQ must be floating around the 80 range. Both >> "parents" >> > > are coke and ecstasy heads. The father lost his job a while ago and is >> too >> > > ignorant to apply for unemployment benefits and the leech never worked a >> > > day. The leech has an 11 year old boy and brings in various other >> wonderful >> > > people to crash at the house ranging in age from 14 to 40. To make >> things >> > > worse, the boy’s mother is a crackhead and heroin addict with psychotic >> > > tendencies. He lived with her for the first three years. At times she >> would >> > > leave him alone for days at a time. He was rescued by my wife and his >> > > grandmother and sent to live with his father. >> > > He currently has a festering cavity, no shoes, few clothes, can’t read, >> and >> > > hangs out day-in, day-out in the Wal-Mart parking lot with the local >> > > whitetrash kids. His father does nothing for him, the leech ignores him. >> His >> > > grandmother is with him now and is bringing him here in a week. >> > > My wife and I are orders of magnitude better off then his father and >> leech. >> > > He’d be stepping into a very different world when he comes to San >> Francisco >> > > from Hawaii. I’ve met him and we get along more or less. He loves his >> aunt >> > > very much and he’s looking forward to coming here. When he gets here >> we’re >> > > going to teach him to read, among other things and generally be real >> > > parents. The only "real" parenting he has received is from his >> grandparents, >> > > but that amounted to a total of 6 weeks out of the year. His >> grandparents >> > > now live in a different country but before two years ago lived a 3 hour >> > > drive away. >> > > So after all that, my question is; What should I expect? What should I >> do? >> > > What’s a common mistake in this situation. >> > > Please don’t reply to me via e-mail since I never post my real e-mail >> here. >> > > Please post to the group. >> > > Thank You.

Response:

Hey Jerry, A few years ago I volunteered to be a chaperone on my daughter’s class trip to a NY city zoo. In the morning on the way to the school my daughter said, "I sure hope James isn’t in our group." I asked her what the problem was with James. She told me he was the worst kid in the class. He got into trouble every day, more than all the other kids put together. Always up for a challenge I was actually hoping James was gonna be in our group so I could see how well I could get James to act during the trip, not by being a disciplinarian, but by treating him like a person. As soon as we walked into the classroom, the teacher came over and told me that I would be chaperoning only one child other than my daughter. You guessed it, JAMES! All my daughter could do was moan, "Oh, daddy!" BTW all the other chaperones were women; mothers, teachers aides, etc. They probably thought out of all of the adults going on the trip a man would have the best chance of keeping James in line. Anyhow, the teacher brought me over and introduced me to James. I said, "Hi James, my name is Dan and we are gonna have a GREAT day today, and all you have to do is listen to me." That was it, simple, everything he needed to know. I treated him no different than I treated my own daughter. In the bus on the way to the city we talked about the zoo and what animals they really wanted to see. When we got there we checked out the animals and the exibits and I asked him and my daughter what they thought about all the different things they saw, which animals they liked the best, etc… Not once did James even seem like he was about to give me any trouble about anything! As time went on during the day I could see my daughter changing her attitude towards James. She came to realize he was as nice a kid as anyone else in the class. It’s just that James got his attention by acting out, and he’d gotten a bad reputation because of it, and that tainted everybody’s expectations of him. All during the trip about every fifteen minutes one of the other chaperones would come over and ask if everything was alright with James. I kept telling them, "No problem at all." I could see from their faces they thought I was holding something back, but it was the truth. James was as good as gold! My daughter turned into James’ best friend in the class. At the end of the school year all the parents could come in and see what their child had done in class. When I walked in I found my daughter and then looked for James so I could say hello. There he was sitting all by himself, bright red face, tears welling up in his eyes. I asked him what the matter was and he told me both of his parents worked and no one was gonna come in and see what he’d done. I told him, "James, you’re coming with me. I want you to show me everything." And I took him and all his stuff over to my daughter’s table. His face beamed. One of the papers the school had the kids fill out was a questionaire obviously done by a social worker type prying into what the homelife was like for the kids. One of the questions was a finish the sentence type thing. It started off, "If I was the boss in my house, I would…" And James had written, "get rid of all the credit cards." Here’s a kid in a first grade class worrying about credit card bills! Your 10 year old needs the pressure taken off like James needed his pressure taken off. Treat this little boy like he’s the best kid in the world and take it from there. Love him like he’s your own. Never say anything bad about where he came from or who he came from. Don’t offer any opinions about anything that happened prior to him walking through your front door. Let him know what he has to do and who he has to listen to. Read a book called, "How To Make Your Children Mind, Without Losing Yours." by Kevin Leman. Do the best you can. And when it gets harder, try harder. And when the kid does something wrong give him a hug. It’ll probably be the first one he ever got. Tell him you don’t want to see that kind of misbehavior again. All the best, Dan Sullivan

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Marie; >    I would’ve if I were younger and able to.  Especially a baby.  I was >just pointing out that from what the guy wrote about this kids parents, >he has been badly damaged and neglected already (and I don’t mean the >way Steve does).  It is quite hard to turn this kids around, it can be >done – but not likely. >We took in my husband’s sister when she was 15 – she’d been giving >trouble to parents since she was 8 or 9.  Stealing, flunking out of >school, drugs, arrested for prostituion, the whole ball of wax.  We took >her from the detention center, brought her home to her own room with >nice furniture, put her in counseling, bought her clothes, worked with >her everyday, she had friends over (we had a pool at that time).  We >tried our best even sometimes I thought at the expense of our two sons >who were 4 and 5 and the time. >It ended up with her flunking out of school, lying, drinking, the hells >angels tore up our yard with motorcycles one day and she finished off by >stealing everything in the house that wasn’t nailed down including >clothes.   >My hubby didn’t want to do it, I talked him into it.  I really wanted to >make it easier for her so she didn’t have to go it alone – but it wasn’t >possible.   >She ended up married twice and had four children with no husband, and >gave two of them away.  

Abused her somemore, eh? You found out what that gets you. Now you’re simply defending your own stupidity. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You don’t think you’d take in your nephew (if you have one, that is ;o)? > Just wondering…we’ve often discussed different children in our families > and what would happen if they were to need somewhere to go. At one time we > had to seriously discuss taking in my nephew if his mother were to die, but > that was different as he would have been just a newborn. > Marie > > While I admire you and wish you all the best, I wouldn’t do this for all > > the tea in China. > > > My wife’s 10 year old nephew is about to come live with us. The reason > that > > > he’s coming is that he is currently neglected by his father and his > father’s > > > live in leech, otherwise known as girlfriend. The father is mentally as > old > > > as the boy is. His IQ must be floating around the 80 range. Both > "parents" > > > are coke and ecstasy heads. The father lost his job a while ago and is > too > > > ignorant to apply for unemployment benefits and the leech never worked a > > > day. The leech has an 11 year old boy and brings in various other > wonderful > > > people to crash at the house ranging in age from 14 to 40. To make > things > > > worse, the boy’s mother is a crackhead and heroin addict with psychotic > > > tendencies. He lived with her for the first three years. At times she > would > > > leave him alone for days at a time. He was rescued by my wife and his > > > grandmother and sent to live with his father. > > > He currently has a festering cavity, no shoes, few clothes, can’t read, > and > > > hangs out day-in, day-out in the Wal-Mart parking lot with the local > > > whitetrash kids. His father does nothing for him, the leech ignores him. > His > > > grandmother is with him now and is bringing him here in a week. > > > My wife and I are orders of magnitude better off then his father and > leech. > > > He’d be stepping into a very different world when he comes to San > Francisco > > > from Hawaii. I’ve met him and we get along more or less. He loves his > aunt > > > very much and he’s looking forward to coming here. When he gets here > we’re > > > going to teach him to read, among other things and generally be real > > > parents. The only "real" parenting he has received is from his > grandparents, > > > but that amounted to a total of 6 weeks out of the year. His > grandparents > > > now live in a different country but before two years ago lived a 3 hour > > > drive away. > > > So after all that, my question is; What should I expect? What should I > do? > > > What’s a common mistake in this situation. > > > Please don’t reply to me via e-mail since I never post my real e-mail > here. > > > Please post to the group. > > > Thank You.

Response:

Marie;         I would’ve if I were younger and able to.  Especially a baby.  I was just pointing out that from what the guy wrote about this kids parents, he has been badly damaged and neglected already (and I don’t mean the way Steve does).  It is quite hard to turn this kids around, it can be done – but not likely. We took in my husband’s sister when she was 15 – she’d been giving trouble to parents since she was 8 or 9.  Stealing, flunking out of school, drugs, arrested for prostituion, the whole ball of wax.  We took her from the detention center, brought her home to her own room with nice furniture, put her in counseling, bought her clothes, worked with her everyday, she had friends over (we had a pool at that time).  We tried our best even sometimes I thought at the expense of our two sons who were 4 and 5 and the time. It ended up with her flunking out of school, lying, drinking, the hells angels tore up our yard with motorcycles one day and she finished off by stealing everything in the house that wasn’t nailed down including clothes.   My hubby didn’t want to do it, I talked him into it.  I really wanted to make it easier for her so she didn’t have to go it alone – but it wasn’t possible.   She ended up married twice and had four children with no husband, and gave two of them away.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > You don’t think you’d take in your nephew (if you have one, that is ;o)? > Just wondering…we’ve often discussed different children in our families > and what would happen if they were to need somewhere to go. At one time we > had to seriously discuss taking in my nephew if his mother were to die, but > that was different as he would have been just a newborn. > Marie > While I admire you and wish you all the best, I wouldn’t do this for all > the tea in China. > > My wife’s 10 year old nephew is about to come live with us. The reason > that > > he’s coming is that he is currently neglected by his father and his > father’s > > live in leech, otherwise known as girlfriend. The father is mentally as > old > > as the boy is. His IQ must be floating around the 80 range. Both > "parents" > > are coke and ecstasy heads. The father lost his job a while ago and is > too > > ignorant to apply for unemployment benefits and the leech never worked a > > day. The leech has an 11 year old boy and brings in various other > wonderful > > people to crash at the house ranging in age from 14 to 40. To make > things > > worse, the boy’s mother is a crackhead and heroin addict with psychotic > > tendencies. He lived with her for the first three years. At times she > would > > leave him alone for days at a time. He was rescued by my wife and his > > grandmother and sent to live with his father. > > He currently has a festering cavity, no shoes, few clothes, can’t read, > and > > hangs out day-in, day-out in the Wal-Mart parking lot with the local > > whitetrash kids. His father does nothing for him, the leech ignores him. > His > > grandmother is with him now and is bringing him here in a week. > > My wife and I are orders of magnitude better off then his father and > leech. > > He’d be stepping into a very different world when he comes to San > Francisco > > from Hawaii. I’ve met him and we get along more or less. He loves his > aunt > > very much and he’s looking forward to coming here. When he gets here > we’re > > going to teach him to read, among other things and generally be real > > parents. The only "real" parenting he has received is from his > grandparents, > > but that amounted to a total of 6 weeks out of the year. His > grandparents > > now live in a different country but before two years ago lived a 3 hour > > drive away. > > So after all that, my question is; What should I expect? What should I > do? > > What’s a common mistake in this situation. > > Please don’t reply to me via e-mail since I never post my real e-mail > here. > > Please post to the group. > > Thank You.

Response:

Maybe ten or fifteen years ago, not now.  I have health problems now, and doing well to take care of myself.  These kids are hard to change once they have had parents who are druggies or do not care for them and abandon them.   For both their sakes I hope it works out.  The odds aren’t good. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> While I admire you and wish you all the best, I wouldn’t do this for all > the tea in China. > If your nephew were in this situation, I’m sure that you would.  It will be > difficult but you would be saving an innocent life.  The child may not > appreciate it right now (and then again he might) but he certainly will in > the future when he is old enough to realize what you did for him. > Mary Ellen > > My wife’s 10 year old nephew is about to come live with us. The reason > that > > he’s coming is that he is currently neglected by his father and his > father’s > > live in leech, otherwise known as girlfriend. The father is mentally as > old > > as the boy is. His IQ must be floating around the 80 range. Both > "parents" > > are coke and ecstasy heads. The father lost his job a while ago and is > too > > ignorant to apply for unemployment benefits and the leech never worked a > > day. The leech has an 11 year old boy and brings in various other > wonderful > > people to crash at the house ranging in age from 14 to 40. To make > things > > worse, the boy’s mother is a crackhead and heroin addict with psychotic > > tendencies. He lived with her for the first three years. At times she > would > > leave him alone for days at a time. He was rescued by my wife and his > > grandmother and sent to live with his father. > > He currently has a festering cavity, no shoes, few clothes, can’t read, > and > > hangs out day-in, day-out in the Wal-Mart parking lot with the local > > whitetrash kids. His father does nothing for him, the leech ignores him. > His > > grandmother is with him now and is bringing him here in a week. > > My wife and I are orders of magnitude better off then his father and > leech. > > He’d be stepping into a very different world when he comes to San > Francisco > > from Hawaii. I’ve met him and we get along more or less. He loves his > aunt > > very much and he’s looking forward to coming here. When he gets here > we’re > > going to teach him to read, among other things and generally be real > > parents. The only "real" parenting he has received is from his > grandparents, > > but that amounted to a total of 6 weeks out of the year. His > grandparents > > now live in a different country but before two years ago lived a 3 hour > > drive away. > > So after all that, my question is; What should I expect? What should I > do? > > What’s a common mistake in this situation. > > Please don’t reply to me via e-mail since I never post my real e-mail > here. > > Please post to the group. > > Thank You.

Response:

> While I admire you and wish you all the best, I wouldn’t do this for all > the tea in China.

If your nephew were in this situation, I’m sure that you would.  It will be difficult but you would be saving an innocent life.  The child may not appreciate it right now (and then again he might) but he certainly will in the future when he is old enough to realize what you did for him. Mary Ellen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My wife’s 10 year old nephew is about to come live with us. The reason that > he’s coming is that he is currently neglected by his father and his father’s > live in leech, otherwise known as girlfriend. The father is mentally as old > as the boy is. His IQ must be floating around the 80 range. Both "parents" > are coke and ecstasy heads. The father lost his job a while ago and is too > ignorant to apply for unemployment benefits and the leech never worked a > day. The leech has an 11 year old boy and brings in various other wonderful > people to crash at the house ranging in age from 14 to 40. To make things > worse, the boy’s mother is a crackhead and heroin addict with psychotic > tendencies. He lived with her for the first three years. At times she would > leave him alone for days at a time. He was rescued by my wife and his > grandmother and sent to live with his father. > He currently has a festering cavity, no shoes, few clothes, can’t read, and > hangs out day-in, day-out in the Wal-Mart parking lot with the local > whitetrash kids. His father does nothing for him, the leech ignores him. His > grandmother is with him now and is bringing him here in a week. > My wife and I are orders of magnitude better off then his father and leech. > He’d be stepping into a very different world when he comes to San Francisco > from Hawaii. I’ve met him and we get along more or less. He loves his aunt > very much and he’s looking forward to coming here. When he gets here we’re > going to teach him to read, among other things and generally be real > parents. The only "real" parenting he has received is from his grandparents, > but that amounted to a total of 6 weeks out of the year. His grandparents > now live in a different country but before two years ago lived a 3 hour > drive away. > So after all that, my question is; What should I expect? What should I do? > What’s a common mistake in this situation. > Please don’t reply to me via e-mail since I never post my real e-mail here. > Please post to the group. > Thank You.

Response:

> What’s a common mistake in this situation.

Being an ass.

Response:

Wow!  Poor kid.  It’s wonderful that you’re taking him in, giving him some much needed distance from his "parents."   I strongly agree with the poster who suggested that you keep a tight lid on your feelings about the boy’s father and "leech."   If the kid wants to tell you about his traumatic experiences, I’d listen carefully and spare him my righteous indignation.  Otherwise, I wouldn’t press him for information or treat him like a victim;  he’s probably dying to leave the past behind and to create a new image of himself. In the beginning, I’d expect a lot of "testing" behavior as the boy (unconsciously!!!) determines whether you and your wife can handle his emotions and actions without resorting to the kind of abuse/neglect he’s already suffered.  And don’t expect him to be openly grateful for your kindness; he’s sure to resent any implication that he needed to be "rescued" and that he now *owes* you something for your kindness. Many 10 year-olds believe they can survive alone in the world, and I’m sure this boy has grown somewhat independent (as if he had a choice!) over the years.  Expect plenty of resistance. Also, kids who suffer severe neglect and abuse tend to accumulate all kinds of nasty habits — drug abuse, violent tendencies, criminal behavior, etc.  His grades in school will probably be extremely poor, and his development is probably lagging emotionally as well as intellectually.  He might cop an attitude with every adult or child he meets.  Or he might be clingy and fearful.  Expect the unexpected. So, if I were in this situation, I definitely would not present myself as a "real parent."  You can be the kid’s uncle, but NOT his father; be avuncular, dependable, patient.  Establish rules, enforce them consistently, let him know that you’re thrilled to have him (that he wasn’t just ‘dumped on’ you), help him identify and develop his talents, hug him, tell him you love him, and laugh with him *at least* once a day.   Eventually, after a few years, your relationship might resemble a parent-child relationship, but you can’t push it. I’m sure you’ll do just fine. Cringer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->My wife’s 10 year old nephew is about to come live with us. The reason that >he’s coming is that he is currently neglected by his father and his father’s >live in leech, otherwise known as girlfriend. The father is mentally as old >as the boy is. His IQ must be floating around the 80 range. Both "parents" >are coke and ecstasy heads. The father lost his job a while ago and is too >ignorant to apply for unemployment benefits and the leech never worked a >day. The leech has an 11 year old boy and brings in various other wonderful >people to crash at the house ranging in age from 14 to 40. To make things >worse, the boy’s mother is a crackhead and heroin addict with psychotic >tendencies. He lived with her for the first three years. At times she would >leave him alone for days at a time. He was rescued by my wife and his >grandmother and sent to live with his father. >He currently has a festering cavity, no shoes, few clothes, can’t read, and >hangs out day-in, day-out in the Wal-Mart parking lot with the local >whitetrash kids. His father does nothing for him, the leech ignores him. His >grandmother is with him now and is bringing him here in a week. >My wife and I are orders of magnitude better off then his father and leech. >He’d be stepping into a very different world when he comes to San Francisco >from Hawaii. I’ve met him and we get along more or less. He loves his aunt >very much and he’s looking forward to coming here. When he gets here we’re >going to teach him to read, among other things and generally be real >parents. The only "real" parenting he has received is from his grandparents, >but that amounted to a total of 6 weeks out of the year. His grandparents >now live in a different country but before two years ago lived a 3 hour >drive away. >So after all that, my question is; What should I expect? What should I do? >What’s a common mistake in this situation. >Please don’t reply to me via e-mail since I never post my real e-mail here. >Please post to the group. >Thank You.

Response:

While I admire you and wish you all the best, I wouldn’t do this for all the tea in China.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My wife’s 10 year old nephew is about to come live with us. The reason that > he’s coming is that he is currently neglected by his father and his father’s > live in leech, otherwise known as girlfriend. The father is mentally as old > as the boy is. His IQ must be floating around the 80 range. Both "parents" > are coke and ecstasy heads. The father lost his job a while ago and is too > ignorant to apply for unemployment benefits and the leech never worked a > day. The leech has an 11 year old boy and brings in various other wonderful > people to crash at the house ranging in age from 14 to 40. To make things > worse, the boy’s mother is a crackhead and heroin addict with psychotic > tendencies. He lived with her for the first three years. At times she would > leave him alone for days at a time. He was rescued by my wife and his > grandmother and sent to live with his father. > He currently has a festering cavity, no shoes, few clothes, can’t read, and > hangs out day-in, day-out in the Wal-Mart parking lot with the local > whitetrash kids. His father does nothing for him, the leech ignores him. His > grandmother is with him now and is bringing him here in a week. > My wife and I are orders of magnitude better off then his father and leech. > He’d be stepping into a very different world when he comes to San Francisco > from Hawaii. I’ve met him and we get along more or less. He loves his aunt > very much and he’s looking forward to coming here. When he gets here we’re > going to teach him to read, among other things and generally be real > parents. The only "real" parenting he has received is from his grandparents, > but that amounted to a total of 6 weeks out of the year. His grandparents > now live in a different country but before two years ago lived a 3 hour > drive away. > So after all that, my question is; What should I expect? What should I do? > What’s a common mistake in this situation. > Please don’t reply to me via e-mail since I never post my real e-mail here. > Please post to the group. > Thank You.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Aren’t you just the little amateur shrink thouhg. > And of course, you are, on every single issue dead on target, know > exactly what you are speaking about and cause every half assed nitwit > on this ng to go after you. They can’t stand someone that actually > tells the truth. > They all want you to believe that except for a tiny minority no parent > abuses their child and their children or those they know who come here > whineing have all been "unfaired against". > I just thought I’d warm you up with a little of what you are going to > see in response to you wise message to this upcoming relative foster > parent. > If I may be so bold I’ll add a couple of cents worth: > The boy may well be, given his history, genetically and parenting > wise, highly reactive. That is, instead of responding to thoughtful > overtures and gentleness with in kind responses, he may well act out > worse than ever. > He knows how to connect with other humans, caregivers (if you can call > the dad that), through all those things little daddy dearest taught > him, and the new parent is going to get a raft of shit from the kid. > Some call it testing. I do to. I’d sure has hell be testing the next > person that tried to parent me. Some call it RAD, and incapacity to > attach normally in a trusting way. I would to, etc. I’d be much better > as he will be, at connecting (instead of attaching) with intense > violent and or sullen or other negative responses.

If he’s had shit rubbed in his face and you smell like shit, then you’re going to get treated the very same way as shit would. Now, unfortunately, little abusive pieces of shit like YOU imagine that they don’t STINK, and that they are getting TREATED like shit UNFAIRLY by such a child! And *I* don’t see that AT ALL!! *I* see someone JUST LIKE the kid’s shitty parents getting what he so richly deserves!! THAT’S because I can see what makes the kid do that, and in fact I want to do it TOO!! It would take someone like ME to even SEE what that kid sees and to treat the kid decently!! Why? because you don’t fucking even know how!! Even your IDEA of what parenting IS is abusive and smells like shit to me!!! > There’s more but who has time to write a book here. The point being > this new pop needs to be prepared and there are only three things he > can use with expected better outcomes: > 1. Much more knowledge. He should be haunting a CPS library. They most > all have them. > 2. A rhino tough skin, he’s not the target, as the kid is just doing > survival practice (you would too). > 3. A massive sense of humor. It actually will look damn funny when you > and the kid will look back, from a state of future normalcy, and laugh > at his antics and your doofus reactions (because this new parent to > boy is going to screw up and should be forgiving himself for it > starting now).

None of that is even important. All you have to do is treat the kid like a friend and equal instead of like a vassal and nothing untoward will happen. Parent types can’t let themselves believe that, but it’s true. They are dominated with defective controlfreak fantasies from their mistreatment when THEY were young, so their reflexes are ALL WRONG!! > Maybe one more thing: respite. Get time off. This is going to be hard > road for awhile.

Only if you’re a total dumbshit and make it one! > And more help from real foster parents, not these foster parent > attachers and liars on this ng, for actual methods that work.

No "methods" work, because REAL PEOPLE do NOT want to be treated phony by METHOD manipulators!! > I’d recommend Ron if he has the time and I hesitate to recommend Susan > not because she wouldn’t be helpful, but because I’m guessing she has > her hands entirely too full right now. I know she has good, even > superior resources she uses. I can tell from her posts. > So also look for foster parents in the area the new pop lives in. > Perserverance. > Oh, and a little note to you worthless lying hyenas that inhabit this > ng that will try to mess with this new pop. Remember we’ll be here to > counter you and remind you again and again you are usually blowing it > out your ass. Rare exceptions acknowledged. arh arh arh. > Best, > Kane

You’re just another abusive shithead. Steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> the most common mistake is to let your vicious attitude [perhaps quite > justified but vicious nevertheless] about his father color the way you > treat him.  As in a divorce it is VERY important not to denigrate the > other parent.  If he argues  that ‘Dad let’s me do it’ which he will, then > instead of ‘we have higher standards’ you say ‘everyone has different > rules for their home and these are ours — we’ll try to make sure you know > what the house rules are here and you can help us decide some of the > things that affect you — but you have to learn that we may do things > differently here.’ [not BETTER different ]  If he says ‘I wish I was at > Dad’s place’ — you don’t snap back about how much better off he is with > you than that lowlife creep — instead you empathize and let him know ‘I > understand it is really hard to move someplace new and you must get > homesick sometimes.’ > Well, well, well, finally (and a lurker at that) another one pops up. > In your desire to improve him recognize that lots of correction and > insistance on new hairstyle, clothing styles, speech etc will be > rightfully recognized as rejection.  You win a  child over through > acceptance and you try to provide support for appropriate changes rather > than trying to aggressively ‘remodel’.  Pick the most important things > e.g. politeness issues and safety issues and let a lot of the rest go. > Sounds kind of wimpy to me. > Find fun things to do. Let him know you enjoy his company.  Let him know > you are excited to have him with you — and that you know that you will > have to work things out to get along — as with any new family member with > whom you haven’t shared a long history. > Sounds like a budding friendship effort to me. > Find responsibilities for him to handle.  Teach him to cook and let him > take turns choosing and helping put on the meal.  Expect him to do chores > alongside you — e.g. if you pick up on Saturday morning, or do the yard > or whatever, involve him alongside you.  You want to engage him through > action not through bossing and a lot of verbal direction.  No reading the > paper while he does his chores.  [even though of course you do more anyway > -- kids always find it hard to work when others are goofing off] > Aren’t you just the little amateur shrink thouhg. > You are doing a good thing and I wish you the best of luck > And of course, you are, on every single issue dead on target, know > exactly what you are speaking about and cause every half assed nitwit > on this ng to go after you. They can’t stand someone that actually > tells the truth. > They all want you to believe that except for a tiny minority no parent > abuses their child and their children or those they know who come here > whineing have all been "unfaired against". > I just thought I’d warm you up with a little of what you are going to > see in response to you wise message to this upcoming relative foster > parent. > If I may be so bold I’ll add a couple of cents worth: > The boy may well be, given his history, genetically and parenting > wise, highly reactive. That is, instead of responding to thoughtful > overtures and gentleness with in kind responses, he may well act out > worse than ever. > He knows how to connect with other humans, caregivers (if you can call > the dad that), through all those things little daddy dearest taught > him, and the new parent is going to get a raft of shit from the kid. > Some call it testing. I do to. I’d sure has hell be testing the next > person that tried to parent me. Some call it RAD, and incapacity to > attach normally in a trusting way. I would to, etc. I’d be much better > as he will be, at connecting (instead of attaching) with intense > violent and or sullen or other negative responses. > There’s more but who has time to write a book here. The point being > this new pop needs to be prepared and there are only three things he > can use with expected better outcomes: > 1. Much more knowledge. He should be haunting a CPS library. They most > all have them. > 2. A rhino tough skin, he’s not the target, as the kid is just doing > survival practice (you would too). > 3. A massive sense of humor. It actually will look damn funny when you > and the kid will look back, from a state of future normalcy, and laugh > at his antics and your doofus reactions (because this new parent to > boy is going to screw up and should be forgiving himself for it > starting now). > Maybe one more thing: respite. Get time off. This is going to be hard > road for awhile. > And more help from real foster parents, not these foster parent > attachers and liars on this ng, for actual methods that work. > I’d recommend Ron if he has the time and I hesitate to recommend Susan > not because she wouldn’t be helpful, but because I’m guessing she has > her hands entirely too full right now. I know she has good, even > superior resources she uses. I can tell from her posts. > So also look for foster parents in the area the new pop lives in. > Perserverance. > Oh, and a little note to you worthless lying hyenas that inhabit this > ng that will try to mess with this new pop. Remember we’ll be here to > counter you and remind you again and again you are usually blowing it > out your ass. Rare exceptions acknowledged. arh arh arh. > Best, > Kane

I have been a foster parent, have you?

Response:

> the most common mistake is to let your vicious attitude [perhaps quite > justified but vicious nevertheless] about his father color the way you > treat him.  As in a divorce it is VERY important not to denigrate the > other parent.  If he argues  that ‘Dad let’s me do it’ which he will, then > instead of ‘we have higher standards’ you say ‘everyone has different > rules for their home and these are ours — we’ll try to make sure you know > what the house rules are here and you can help us decide some of the > things that affect you — but you have to learn that we may do things > differently here.’ [not BETTER different ]  If he says ‘I wish I was at > Dad’s place’ — you don’t snap back about how much better off he is with > you than that lowlife creep — instead you empathize and let him know ‘I > understand it is really hard to move someplace new and you must get > homesick sometimes.’

Well, well, well, finally (and a lurker at that) another one pops up. > In your desire to improve him recognize that lots of correction and > insistance on new hairstyle, clothing styles, speech etc will be > rightfully recognized as rejection.  You win a  child over through > acceptance and you try to provide support for appropriate changes rather > than trying to aggressively ‘remodel’.  Pick the most important things > e.g. politeness issues and safety issues and let a lot of the rest go.

Sounds kind of wimpy to me. > Find fun things to do. Let him know you enjoy his company.  Let him know > you are excited to have him with you — and that you know that you will > have to work things out to get along — as with any new family member with > whom you haven’t shared a long history.

Sounds like a budding friendship effort to me. > Find responsibilities for him to handle.  Teach him to cook and let him > take turns choosing and helping put on the meal.  Expect him to do chores > alongside you — e.g. if you pick up on Saturday morning, or do the yard > or whatever, involve him alongside you.  You want to engage him through > action not through bossing and a lot of verbal direction.  No reading the > paper while he does his chores.  [even though of course you do more anyway > -- kids always find it hard to work when others are goofing off]

Aren’t you just the little amateur shrink thouhg. > You are doing a good thing and I wish you the best of luck

And of course, you are, on every single issue dead on target, know exactly what you are speaking about and cause every half assed nitwit on this ng to go after you. They can’t stand someone that actually tells the truth. They all want you to believe that except for a tiny minority no parent abuses their child and their children or those they know who come here whineing have all been "unfaired against". I just thought I’d warm you up with a little of what you are going to see in response to you wise message to this upcoming relative foster parent. If I may be so bold I’ll add a couple of cents worth: The boy may well be, given his history, genetically and parenting wise, highly reactive. That is, instead of responding to thoughtful overtures and gentleness with in kind responses, he may well act out worse than ever. He knows how to connect with other humans, caregivers (if you can call the dad that), through all those things little daddy dearest taught him, and the new parent is going to get a raft of shit from the kid. Some call it testing. I do to. I’d sure has hell be testing the next person that tried to parent me. Some call it RAD, and incapacity to attach normally in a trusting way. I would to, etc. I’d be much better as he will be, at connecting (instead of attaching) with intense violent and or sullen or other negative responses. There’s more but who has time to write a book here. The point being this new pop needs to be prepared and there are only three things he can use with expected better outcomes: 1. Much more knowledge. He should be haunting a CPS library. They most all have them. 2. A rhino tough skin, he’s not the target, as the kid is just doing survival practice (you would too). 3. A massive sense of humor. It actually will look damn funny when you and the kid will look back, from a state of future normalcy, and laugh at his antics and your doofus reactions (because this new parent to boy is going to screw up and should be forgiving himself for it starting now). Maybe one more thing: respite. Get time off. This is going to be hard road for awhile. And more help from real foster parents, not these foster parent attachers and liars on this ng, for actual methods that work. I’d recommend Ron if he has the time and I hesitate to recommend Susan not because she wouldn’t be helpful, but because I’m guessing she has her hands entirely too full right now. I know she has good, even superior resources she uses. I can tell from her posts. So also look for foster parents in the area the new pop lives in. Perserverance. Oh, and a little note to you worthless lying hyenas that inhabit this ng that will try to mess with this new pop. Remember we’ll be here to counter you and remind you again and again you are usually blowing it out your ass. Rare exceptions acknowledged. arh arh arh. Best, Kane

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My wife’s 10 year old nephew is about to come live with us. The reason that > he’s coming is that he is currently neglected by his father and his father’s > live in leech, otherwise known as girlfriend. The father is mentally as old > as the boy is. His IQ must be floating around the 80 range. Both "parents" > are coke and ecstasy heads. The father lost his job a while ago and is too > ignorant to apply for unemployment benefits and the leech never worked a > day. The leech has an 11 year old boy and brings in various other wonderful > people to crash at the house ranging in age from 14 to 40. To make things > worse, the boy’s mother is a crackhead and heroin addict with psychotic > tendencies. He lived with her for the first three years. At times she would > leave him alone for days at a time. He was rescued by my wife and his > grandmother and sent to live with his father. > He currently has a festering cavity, no shoes, few clothes, can’t read, and > hangs out day-in, day-out in the Wal-Mart parking lot with the local > whitetrash kids. His father does nothing for him, the leech ignores him. His > grandmother is with him now and is bringing him here in a week. > My wife and I are orders of magnitude better off then his father and leech. > He’d be stepping into a very different world when he comes to San Francisco > from Hawaii. I’ve met him and we get along more or less. He loves his aunt > very much and he’s looking forward to coming here. When he gets here we’re > going to teach him to read, among other things and generally be real > parents. The only "real" parenting he has received is from his grandparents, > but that amounted to a total of 6 weeks out of the year. His grandparents > now live in a different country but before two years ago lived a 3 hour > drive away. > So after all that, my question is; What should I expect? What should I do? > What’s a common mistake in this situation. > the most common mistake is to let your vicious attitude [perhaps quite > justified but vicious nevertheless] about his father color the way you > treat him.  As in a divorce it is VERY important not to denigrate the > other parent.  If he argues  that ‘Dad let’s me do it’ which he will, then > instead of ‘we have higher standards’ you say ‘everyone has different > rules for their home and these are ours — we’ll try to make sure you know > what the house rules are here and you can help us decide some of the > things that affect you — but you have to learn that we may do things > differently here.’ [not BETTER different ]  If he says ‘I wish I was at > Dad’s place’ — you don’t snap back about how much better off he is with > you than that lowlife creep — instead you empathize and let him know ‘I > understand it is really hard to move someplace new and you must get > homesick sometimes.’ > In your desire to improve him recognize that lots of correction and > insistance on new hairstyle, clothing styles, speech etc will be > rightfully recognized as rejection.  You win a  child over through > acceptance and you try to provide support for appropriate changes rather > than trying to aggressively ‘remodel’.  Pick the most important things > e.g. politeness issues and safety issues and let a lot of the rest go. > Find fun things to do. Let him know you enjoy his company.  Let him know > you are excited to have him with you — and that you know that you will > have to work things out to get along — as with any new family member with > whom you haven’t shared a long history. > Find responsibilities for him to handle.  Teach him to cook and let him > take turns choosing and helping put on the meal.  Expect him to do chores > alongside you — e.g. if you pick up on Saturday morning, or do the yard > or whatever, involve him alongside you.  You want to engage him through > action n ot through bossing and a lot of verbal direction.  No reading the > paper while he does his chores.  [even though of course you do more anyway > -- kids always find it hard to work when others are goofing off] > You are doing a good thing and I wish you the best of luck > Please don’t reply to me via e-mail since I never post my real e-mail here. > Please post to the group. > Thank You.

You may want to get some family counseling.  Your nephew may have issues from his abandonment and neglect.  Check with your insurance company, some of it may be covered.  Are you legal guardians?  I’m not sure about the laws, you may want to talk to a lawyer  .In order to have your nephew covered on your insurance you may need legal guardianship.    Also for income tax purposes.  I have no idea.  I don’t mean to sound cold (referring to income tax deductions) but you are taking on a major responsibility and with all the disappointments this kid has had in his life, he needs to know and you need to know that this is a permanent, life-long commitment.  You may need emotional and financial support.  I hope this is a permanent situation, it sounds like this boys needs something stable and dependable in his life. Best of luck to all of you! Mary Ellen

Response:

My wife’s 10 year old nephew is about to come live with us. The reason that he’s coming is that he is currently neglected by his father and his father’s live in leech, otherwise known as girlfriend. The father is mentally as old as the boy is. His IQ must be floating around the 80 range. Both "parents" are coke and ecstasy heads. The father lost his job a while ago and is too ignorant to apply for unemployment benefits and the leech never worked a day. The leech has an 11 year old boy and brings in various other wonderful people to crash at the house ranging in age from 14 to 40. To make things worse, the boy’s mother is a crackhead and heroin addict with psychotic tendencies. He lived with her for the first three years. At times she would leave him alone for days at a time. He was rescued by my wife and his grandmother and sent to live with his father. He currently has a festering cavity, no shoes, few clothes, can’t read, and hangs out day-in, day-out in the Wal-Mart parking lot with the local whitetrash kids. His father does nothing for him, the leech ignores him. His grandmother is with him now and is bringing him here in a week. My wife and I are orders of magnitude better off then his father and leech. He’d be stepping into a very different world when he comes to San Francisco from Hawaii. I’ve met him and we get along more or less. He loves his aunt very much and he’s looking forward to coming here. When he gets here we’re going to teach him to read, among other things and generally be real parents. The only "real" parenting he has received is from his grandparents, but that amounted to a total of 6 weeks out of the year. His grandparents now live in a different country but before two years ago lived a 3 hour drive away. So after all that, my question is; What should I expect? What should I do? What’s a common mistake in this situation. Please don’t reply to me via e-mail since I never post my real e-mail here. Please post to the group. Thank You.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My wife’s 10 year old nephew is about to come live with us. The reason that > he’s coming is that he is currently neglected by his father and his father’s > live in leech, otherwise known as girlfriend. The father is mentally as old > as the boy is. His IQ must be floating around the 80 range. Both "parents" > are coke and ecstasy heads. The father lost his job a while ago and is too > ignorant to apply for unemployment benefits and the leech never worked a > day. The leech has an 11 year old boy and brings in various other wonderful > people to crash at the house ranging in age from 14 to 40. To make things > worse, the boy’s mother is a crackhead and heroin addict with psychotic > tendencies. He lived with her for the first three years. At times she would > leave him alone for days at a time. He was rescued by my wife and his > grandmother and sent to live with his father. > He currently has a festering cavity, no shoes, few clothes, can’t read, and > hangs out day-in, day-out in the Wal-Mart parking lot with the local > whitetrash kids. His father does nothing for him, the leech ignores him. His > grandmother is with him now and is bringing him here in a week. > My wife and I are orders of magnitude better off then his father and leech. > He’d be stepping into a very different world when he comes to San Francisco > from Hawaii. I’ve met him and we get along more or less. He loves his aunt > very much and he’s looking forward to coming here. When he gets here we’re > going to teach him to read, among other things and generally be real > parents. The only "real" parenting he has received is from his grandparents, > but that amounted to a total of 6 weeks out of the year. His grandparents > now live in a different country but before two years ago lived a 3 hour > drive away. > So after all that, my question is; What should I expect? What should I do? > What’s a common mistake in this situation.

the most common mistake is to let your vicious attitude [perhaps quite justified but vicious nevertheless] about his father color the way you treat him.  As in a divorce it is VERY important not to denigrate the other parent.  If he argues  that ‘Dad let’s me do it’ which he will, then instead of ‘we have higher standards’ you say ‘everyone has different rules for their home and these are ours — we’ll try to make sure you know what the house rules are here and you can help us decide some of the things that affect you — but you have to learn that we may do things differently here.’ [not BETTER different ]  If he says ‘I wish I was at Dad’s place’ — you don’t snap back about how much better off he is with you than that lowlife creep — instead you empathize and let him know ‘I understand it is really hard to move someplace new and you must get homesick sometimes.’ In your desire to improve him recognize that lots of correction and insistance on new hairstyle, clothing styles, speech etc will be rightfully recognized as rejection.  You win a  child over through acceptance and you try to provide support for appropriate changes rather than trying to aggressively ‘remodel’.  Pick the most important things e.g. politeness issues and safety issues and let a lot of the rest go. Find fun things to do. Let him know you enjoy his company.  Let him know you are excited to have him with you — and that you know that you will have to work things out to get along — as with any new family member with whom you haven’t shared a long history. Find responsibilities for him to handle.  Teach him to cook and let him take turns choosing and helping put on the meal.  Expect him to do chores alongside you — e.g. if you pick up on Saturday morning, or do the yard or whatever, involve him alongside you.  You want to engage him through action n ot through bossing and a lot of verbal direction.  No reading the paper while he does his chores.  [even though of course you do more anyway -- kids always find it hard to work when others are goofing off] You are doing a good thing and I wish you the best of luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Please don’t reply to me via e-mail since I never post my real e-mail here. > Please post to the group. > Thank You.

Response: