Question:
> Mike, > I feel the need to replay to some of the comments in your post. Please > accept my appologies for "snipping" your commnets–I want to make this as > concise as possible, and I will try to maintain your original thoughts.
No problem; I appreciate the civil discussion. > A chirorprator is a *Doctor of Chirpractic* and they do recieve extensive > eductaoin and training, as well as lisensing.
They are not medical doctors, i.e. Phd’s, and are not required to receive any training, education, or gain a license, though they certainly *can* do all of those things. The "Doctor" in the title you mention above does not refer to a Phd. A medical doctor, in contrast, *must* receive an education, a Phd degree, and a license before he can practice medicine. Which do you feel more comfortable with? ;) > While apnea, etc may not be directly "attached" to the vertebrae, your > beathing–or lack thereof,which is invovled in apnea–are controlled by > nerves, which come from the spinal cord, which is "housed" in your > vertebrae. If the vertebrae shift, cuasing damage to the nerve, the messages > cannot travel from the brain/spinal cord to the end region correctly.
It is unlikely your vertebrae could "shift" in such a way to significantly damage the nerves that carry impulses from your brain to other parts of the body. If there was such damage, the chances of repair, as any paraplegic will tell you, are slim. Literally speaking, your breathing is controlled by the brain. While it is true that if I sever the connection between your brain and your spinal column, you will stop breathing, the view you present above is too simple. Chiropractic is based upon the idea of "subluxations", or a misalignment of the spine, which are purported to cause most medical maladies. This contention has been thoroughly tested, and the science has simply not supported it. For reference (for starters, anyway), see http://wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us:80/~btcarrol/skeptic/chiro.html. > Yes, the spine is very fragile. This is why Doctors of Chiropractic use > gentle means of manipulation and recieve intensive training in these > methods.
Sometimes; sometimes not. Be careful. > It is also why Doctors of Chiropratic utilize x-rays and many other > testing methods to determine where, and even if, any spinal misalingments > exist.
Again, sometimes, and sometimes not. Many chiropractors claim that spinal manipulation can cure all known medical maladies, including bacterial infection and serious disease, and avoid traditional medicine at all costs. Such people should rightfully be put in prison, in my opinion, alongside the parents who refuse to give their children antibiotics in favor of prayer. A person simply has no intellectual right to believe such medievil things. I will concede that few chiropractors actually go to the extreme I describe above. But I must reiterate that the only malady chiropractic has been established as being helpful is in the treatment of lower back pain, and things such as apnea have far different causes with far different solutions. Would you agree that chiropractic is not the best treatment option for apnea? > For the > most part, doctors and scientists consider chiropractic (aside from > those who limit their claims to merely treating lower back pain, which > as I mentioned, does appear to help) to be absolute bunk. > This may be your opinoin, but it should not be coniseidered as fact.
It should be considered as fact until the evidence warrants otherwise, just like in the rest of science. > Many > "reputable" sources are recognizing chiropractic care as the positive, non- > medicinal soruce which it is. This viewpoint has been written in such > mainstream sources as Parenting Magazine, Time, and Newsweek.
Those are not scientific journals, and what they print is not subject to peer review. I am speaking of the scientific and medical establishment, who have been unable to establish chiropractic as helping anything but lower back pain. Believe me, it’s not for lack of trying. Also believe me, if chiropractic worked as you say it does, scientists would concur through their peer studies. To date, they have not, and it appears unlikely they ever will since all current studies have revealed nothing in the way of chiropractic effectiveness. > I realize that you stated that your intent was only to provide another > viewpoint, but perhaps you should so as you suggest and do wome more research > in this area before you being to make sweeping statements of negativity.
So far, I am alone in presenting this opinion on this group. But I believe my skepticism is well warranted, and I’ve done the research. Don’t take my word for it; refer to the scientific literature or start with the link I provided. I don’t take my skepticism lightly, and I do not jump to hasty conclusions. I gave chiropractic a fair shake long ago, and will always consider new evidence. If scientists establish a link between chiropractic treatment and the improvement of Condition A tomorrow, I’ll be more than willing to accept it. In the meantime, I’ll require further proof than simple testimonial and post hoc reasoning. I stand by what I said – I don’t recommend a person take their child to a chiropractor for any reason whatsoever (unless that child has some serious lower back pain). The potential for irreparable damage on their tender spines by an amateur who knows little medical science is simply too great. Mike — From Seattle, WA – Seahawks, cinema, science and more at http://kohary.simplenet.com Seahawks: http://kohary.simplenet.com/hawks.htm Cinema: http://kohary.simplenet.com/movies.htm Science: http://kohary.simplenet.com/science.htm
Response:
> So, Mike since you obviously don’t know what you are talking > about I suggest that you quit bad mouthing a profession that > you have little knowledge about until you do a little research > and get up to date on your facts.
Suffice it to say you and I disagree – 100% – on this topic. In the interest of preventing another uselessly nasty thread from developing on this otherwise fine newsgroup, I hereby relinquish this argument, and suggest that anyone interested in chiropractic consult with their physician. Mike — From Seattle, WA – Seahawks, cinema, science and more at http://kohary.simplenet.com Seahawks: http://kohary.simplenet.com/hawks.htm Cinema: http://kohary.simplenet.com/movies.htm Science: http://kohary.simplenet.com/science.htm
Response:
> It’s not about disagreeing with you. You are allowed to have your > opinion. But you need to get your facts straight. We are trying > to educate you and counteract the false and missleading information > that you are presenting. (snip) > Because you made some very dammaging and dispariging and utterly > false statments about the chiropractic proffession. And we need > to present a rebuttal to your comments so that everyone can truly > see both sides of the issue.
"We are trying to educate you…."; sounds like the pro-circ people. As I mentioned in my other post, I’m giving up this argument on the newsgroup, as I’m sure people here have gotten the two sides they deserve. I said this once, then twice, and now a third – and last – time: drop it. Both sides have been presented, and I believe people can choose for themselves. I recommend anyone considering chiropractic consult with their physicians, as on all matters medical. Absolutely my last post on this topic, Mike — From Seattle, WA – Seahawks, cinema, science and more at http://kohary.simplenet.com Seahawks: http://kohary.simplenet.com/hawks.htm Cinema: http://kohary.simplenet.com/movies.htm Science: http://kohary.simplenet.com/science.htm
Response:
> Mike, what will it take to have you accpet the fact that chiroprators are > educated, trained (interships), tested and lisecened? Plese repsond with > what you need as proof, and I’ll do my best to provide it for you.
I’d like to see some reliable, peer-review scientific studies or journal publications demonstrating that their work does what they claim it does. But this actually won’t require any work on your part, since I’ve already done the research and turned up nothing that passed scientific muster. Chiropractic has been shown effective in the treatment of lower back pain, and that’s all. As I said in my other post, we should probably drop this now. Both sides have been presented; people can do their own research and make their own choice. Mike — From Seattle, WA – Seahawks, cinema, science and more at http://kohary.simplenet.com Seahawks: http://kohary.simplenet.com/hawks.htm Cinema: http://kohary.simplenet.com/movies.htm Science: http://kohary.simplenet.com/science.htm
Response:
>> >They are not medical doctors, i.e. Phd’s, and are not required to > >receive any training, education, or gain a license, though they > >certainly *can* do all of those things. > NOT TRUE. All states require extensive training and continual >Well, you can say it all you want, but it won’t be any truer. The fact >is, they are not required to have any training or degree, period. >Mike
Mike, My Father in law was a Chiropractor, my brother in law is a Chiropractor and my Sister in law is a Chirpractor. How many Chiropractors do you know? Do you have first hand knowledge of the training and the certification that they had to go through??? I can tell you from my own personal experience that my in-laws all had to have 2 years of pre-med, then 4 years of chiropractic training. Then they had to pass the national board exams then the state board exams before they were allowed to practice. This was not optional, if they were to practice without a licence they would be subject to arrest and prosicution for practicing medicine without a licence. So, Mike since you obviously don’t know what you are talking about I suggest that you quit bad mouthing a profession that you have little knowledge about until you do a little research and get up to date on your facts. >– >From Seattle, WA – Seahawks, cinema, science >and more at http://kohary.simplenet.com >Seahawks: http://kohary.simplenet.com/hawks.htm >Cinema: http://kohary.simplenet.com/movies.htm >Science: http://kohary.simplenet.com/science.htm
Just my $0.02 worth. Hope this helps, Gordon PS: To reply: delete ‘nospam’ from the e-mail address.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > One thing remains sure, even if they do require training – they do *not* > > require Phds anywhere (i.e. they are not doctors, generally). > Neither is a dentist–does that mean that they’re not doctors either?? ><sigh> I guess some of you are really desperate to defend your >chiropractors. ;) Dentists use established techniques to do their work >in a proven fashion. The work they do has been clearly demonstrated as >being effective in the way they claim (something chiropractic cannot >say).
The Chiropracic techniques have been proven effective and studied for over a hundred years. Granted, some of the calims can be exagerated, but the ’standard’ medical profession also tends to make exagerated claims as well. I was told that there would be no side effects to gallbladder sergery. When I did a bit of investigating I found out about elevated cholesteral, irratated bowel, and loose stools. When I pointed this out to the Dr.s they admitted that there would be these side effects and others. But until I found out for myself, no one would admit to any side effects. Just exagerated claims of "Let us cut the thing out and you will be all better". > You don’t need to be a doctor to work on teeth, though to call >yourself a dentist, you still must obtain a very specific educational >degree (what the heck is it called again? It escapes me at the >moment….)
And you must optain a very specific educational degree to become a chiropractor. >Also, if you are a dental surgeon of some kind, you must be a doctor. >My own dentist, by the way, does have his Phd, as do many, many "mere" >dentists.
But Chiropractors arn’t surgons. They don’t cut into people. >Look, for those of you that disagree with me, and are not skeptical >about chiropractic, great. No need to continue a debate on this topic
It’s not about disagreeing with you. You are allowed to have your opinion. But you need to get your facts straight. We are trying to educate you and counteract the false and missleading information that you are presenting. >that I’m sure most on this group aren’t that interested in. One person >posted recommending a visit to the chiropractor; I posted an opposing >view in the interest of presenting both sides (and really, it wasn’t >"opposing" per se. I stated that I myself wouldn’t take my child to a >chiropractor, encouraged people to investigate the topic for themselves, >and left a reference or two). Again, I encourage everyone to do their >own research, and I’m glad that everyone who was reading this thread got >two sides to the story. Why don’t we just leave it at that, before we >make chiropractic the latest useless and nasty thread in this group, a >la circ?
Because you made some very dammaging and dispariging and utterly false statments about the chiropractic proffession. And we need to present a rebuttal to your comments so that everyone can truly see both sides of the issue. >Mike >– >From Seattle, WA – Seahawks, cinema, science >and more at http://kohary.simplenet.com >Seahawks: http://kohary.simplenet.com/hawks.htm >Cinema: http://kohary.simplenet.com/movies.htm >Science: http://kohary.simplenet.com/science.htm
Just my $0.02 worth. Hope this helps, Gordon PS: To reply: delete ‘nospam’ from the e-mail address.
Response:
Mike, what will it take to have you accpet the fact that chiroprators are educated, trained (interships), tested and lisecened? Plese repsond with what you need as proof, and I’ll do my best to provide it for you. Lesa – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >They are not medical doctors, i.e. Phd’s, and are not required to > >receive any training, education, or gain a license, though they > >certainly *can* do all of those things. > NOT TRUE. All states require extensive training and continual > Well, you can say it all you want, but it won’t be any truer. The fact > is, they are not required to have any training or degree, period. > Mike > — > From Seattle, WA – Seahawks, cinema, science > and more at http://kohary.simplenet.com > Seahawks: http://kohary.simplenet.com/hawks.htm > Cinema: http://kohary.simplenet.com/movies.htm > Science: http://kohary.simplenet.com/science.htm
Response:
> > One thing remains sure, even if they do require training – they do *not* > require Phds anywhere (i.e. they are not doctors, generally). > Neither is a dentist–does that mean that they’re not doctors either??
<sigh> I guess some of you are really desperate to defend your chiropractors. ;) Dentists use established techniques to do their work in a proven fashion. The work they do has been clearly demonstrated as being effective in the way they claim (something chiropractic cannot say). You don’t need to be a doctor to work on teeth, though to call yourself a dentist, you still must obtain a very specific educational degree (what the heck is it called again? It escapes me at the moment….) Also, if you are a dental surgeon of some kind, you must be a doctor. My own dentist, by the way, does have his Phd, as do many, many "mere" dentists. Look, for those of you that disagree with me, and are not skeptical about chiropractic, great. No need to continue a debate on this topic that I’m sure most on this group aren’t that interested in. One person posted recommending a visit to the chiropractor; I posted an opposing view in the interest of presenting both sides (and really, it wasn’t "opposing" per se. I stated that I myself wouldn’t take my child to a chiropractor, encouraged people to investigate the topic for themselves, and left a reference or two). Again, I encourage everyone to do their own research, and I’m glad that everyone who was reading this thread got two sides to the story. Why don’t we just leave it at that, before we make chiropractic the latest useless and nasty thread in this group, a la circ? Mike — From Seattle, WA – Seahawks, cinema, science and more at http://kohary.simplenet.com Seahawks: http://kohary.simplenet.com/hawks.htm Cinema: http://kohary.simplenet.com/movies.htm Science: http://kohary.simplenet.com/science.htm
Response:
What state do you live in that does not require licensing of chiropractors? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >They are not medical doctors, i.e. Phd’s, and are not required to > >receive any training, education, or gain a license, though they > >certainly *can* do all of those things. > NOT TRUE. All states require extensive training and continual > Well, you can say it all you want, but it won’t be any truer. The fact > is, they are not required to have any training or degree, period. > Mike > — > From Seattle, WA – Seahawks, cinema, science > and more at http://kohary.simplenet.com > Seahawks: http://kohary.simplenet.com/hawks.htm > Cinema: http://kohary.simplenet.com/movies.htm > Science: http://kohary.simplenet.com/science.htm
Response:
> What state do you live in that does not require licensing of > chiropractors?
Washington. I wasn’t aware that *any* state *required* it; which ones do? I will certainly recant if I’ve misspoken. One thing remains sure, even if they do require training – they do *not* require Phds anywhere (i.e. they are not doctors, generally). Mike — From Seattle, WA – Seahawks, cinema, science and more at http://kohary.simplenet.com Seahawks: http://kohary.simplenet.com/hawks.htm Cinema: http://kohary.simplenet.com/movies.htm Science: http://kohary.simplenet.com/science.htm
Response:
> >They are not medical doctors, i.e. Phd’s, and are not required to >receive any training, education, or gain a license, though they >certainly *can* do all of those things. > NOT TRUE. All states require extensive training and continual
Well, you can say it all you want, but it won’t be any truer. The fact is, they are not required to have any training or degree, period. Mike — From Seattle, WA – Seahawks, cinema, science and more at http://kohary.simplenet.com Seahawks: http://kohary.simplenet.com/hawks.htm Cinema: http://kohary.simplenet.com/movies.htm Science: http://kohary.simplenet.com/science.htm
Response:
> One thing remains sure, even if they do require training – they do *not* > require Phds anywhere (i.e. they are not doctors, generally).
Neither is a dentist–does that mean that they’re not doctors either?? Lesa
Response:
> I think we’ve just got to concede to disagree on our final opnions, though, > which is OK with me.
Sounds ok with me. :) > If I find any new information on Chiropractic care I’d like to e-mail it to > you.
Feel free. Thanks for the civil discourse, Mike — From Seattle, WA – Seahawks, cinema, science and more at http://kohary.simplenet.com Seahawks: http://kohary.simplenet.com/hawks.htm Cinema: http://kohary.simplenet.com/movies.htm Science: http://kohary.simplenet.com/science.htm
Response:
>They are not medical doctors, i.e. Phd’s, and are not required to >receive any training, education, or gain a license, though they >certainly *can* do all of those things.
NOT TRUE. All states require extensive training and continual re training to get and keep a DC licence. In addition an applicant for a DC license must pass an extensive written and verbal exam. Training is NOT optional. In every state it is required. The "Doctor" in the title you >mention above does not refer to a Phd. A medical doctor, in contrast, >*must* receive an education, a Phd degree, and a license before he can >practice medicine.
And so must a Chiropracter. Which do you feel more comfortable with? ;) Just my $0.02 worth. Hope this helps, Gordon PS: To reply: delete ‘nospam’ from the e-mail address.
Response:
Mike, I’m not going to re-iterate the entire post here. I simply wanted to thank you for your curteuous (sp?) response to my post. I thing we’ve both appraoched this from the angle of having questions and getting information. I also feel that we both agree that caution is the key word–as it should be with any situtaion where a child, or even adult, is invovled. I think we’ve just got to concede to disagree on our final opnions, though, which is OK with me. If I find any new information on Chiropractic care I’d like to e-mail it to you. Lesa
Response:
I think you should, if only your own peace of mind. I pray that it is nothing, and the doctors tell you it is a wasted journey. Freya had a click in her knee when she was born, fortunately she was seen by a paedetrician within 1 month. She was fine, but it saved nights of anguish, even though I thought I would be labled an overprotective parent! The medical profession can think what it likes of me……. >My infant is 6+ weeks old and she has several vertebra that are >significantly larger in proportion to the rest of her spine. These >start at the base of her spine and move upwards. This area of her spine >is also curved outwards and very noticeable to the touch. Is this >normal? Should I take her into the doctor before her two month check up >to look at this?
– Louise Teesdale
Response:
Any time you are concerned about your child’s development, you should feel free to call your pediatrician. Even if the doctor can’t talk to you, if you could talk to a nurse it may ease your mind. They will let you know if you need to come in prior to a two-month check. Good luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My infant is 6+ weeks old and she has several vertebra that are > significantly larger in proportion to the rest of her spine. These > start at the base of her spine and move upwards. This area of her spine > is also curved outwards and very noticeable to the touch. Is this > normal? Should I take her into the doctor before her two month check up > to look at this?
Response:
> My infant is 6+ weeks old and she has several vertebra that are > significantly larger in proportion to the rest of her spine. These > start at the base of her spine and move upwards. This area of her spine > is also curved outwards and very noticeable to the touch. Is this > normal? Should I take her into the doctor before her two month check up > to look at this?
Yes, and also talk to him about his opinion of chiropractic therapy for her. Cetain chiropractors recive additional training in the treatment of infants/children. the condition of her spine, and the way it develops as she grows, can have a significant impact on how she crawls & walks–not to mention just how she feels in general. Lesa
Response:
>I think you should, if only your own peace of mind. I pray that it is >nothing, and the doctors tell you it is a wasted journey. Freya had a >click in her knee when she was born, fortunately she was seen by a >paedetrician within 1 month. She was fine, but it saved nights of >anguish, even though I thought I would be labled an overprotective >parent! The medical profession can think what it likes of me…….
It’s my observation that the medical profession (or at least the better part of it) would have you err on the side of caution. >My infant is 6+ weeks old and she has several vertebra that are >significantly larger in proportion to the rest of her spine. These >start at the base of her spine and move upwards. This area of her spine >is also curved outwards and very noticeable to the touch. Is this >normal? Should I take her into the doctor before her two month check up >to look at this? >– >Louise Teesdale
To reply: delete ‘nospam’ from the address.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My infant is 6+ weeks old and she has several vertebra that are > significantly larger in proportion to the rest of her spine. These > start at the base of her spine and move upwards. This area of her spine > is also curved outwards and very noticeable to the touch. Is this > normal? Should I take her into the doctor before her two month check up > to look at this? >Yes, and also talk to him about his opinion of chiropractic therapy for her. >Cetain chiropractors recive additional training in the treatment of >infants/children. the condition of her spine, and the way it develops as she >grows, can have a significant impact on how she crawls & walks–not to >mention just how she feels in general. >Lesa
I would second that. My daughter had a very difficult forcepts birth and developed a sublexation because of it. This affected her ability to feed, and caused her to have an apnea. She went home on an apnea/heart monitor. In the first week she had so many apnea incidents that she completely filed the monitors memory. This was very unusual. By then I found a chiropracter that was trained to work on infants. You better believe that I gave him the nth degree before I allowed him to touch my daughter. However, after the adjustment there was an amazing improvment. Within the week my wife reported that she was feeding better. Also the record from the monitor showed a significant drop off in the number and severity of the apne incidents. I would caution that not every chiropracter should adjust an infant. Make sure that he or she has the proper training and equiptment. To reply: delete ‘nospam’ from the address.
Response:
> I would second that. My daughter had a very difficult forcepts > birth and developed a sublexation because of it. This affected > her ability to feed, and caused her to have an apnea. She went > home on an apnea/heart monitor. In the first week she had so > many apnea incidents that she completely filed the monitors > memory. This was very unusual. By then I found a chiropracter > that was trained to work on infants. You better believe that I > gave him the nth degree before I allowed him to touch my > daughter. However, after the adjustment there was an amazing > improvment. Within the week my wife reported that she was > feeding better. Also the record from the monitor showed a > significant drop off in the number and severity of the apne > incidents.
In the interest of presenting a dissenting opinion…. I would be very, very skeptical of taking my child to a chiropractor; frankly, I wouldn’t do it. Chiropractors are not doctors, and do not require any special training to call themselves a chiropractor. Chiropractic is not suppported by any medical or scientific evidence, except in cases of lower back pain where it has been established that *certain types* of spinal manipulation seems to ease pressure and pain. Many chiropractors claim that the practice of manipulating the spine cures all sorts of things; not only is this claim specious on its face due to lack of evidence, but is often blatantly false. Apnea, for example, is not established as having anything whatsoever to do with the spine and its position. Remember what a chiropractor is doing – manipulating your spine, one of the most important parts of your body, and also one of the most fragile. Please be very careful in considering this option. For the most part, doctors and scientists consider chiropractic (aside from those who limit their claims to merely treating lower back pain, which as I mentioned, does appear to help) to be absolute bunk. You may as well consider taking your child to a witch doctor. A good web reference can be found at http://wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us:80/~btcarrol/skeptic/chiro.html. Please read this article first if you at all considering this option, and then make an informed choice. Again, only in the interest of presenting the other side….. Mike — From Seattle, WA – Seahawks, cinema, science and more at http://kohary.simplenet.com Seahawks: http://kohary.simplenet.com/hawks.htm Cinema: http://kohary.simplenet.com/movies.htm Science: http://kohary.simplenet.com/science.htm
Response:
Mike, I feel the need to replay to some of the comments in your post. Please accept my appologies for "snipping" your commnets–I want to make this as concise as possible, and I will try to maintain your original thoughts. > In the interest of presenting a dissenting opinion…. > I would be very, very skeptical of taking my child to a chiropractor; > frankly, I wouldn’t do it. Chiropractors are not doctors, and do not > require any special training to call themselves a chiropractor.
A chirorprator is a *Doctor of Chirpractic* and they do recieve extensive eductaoin and training, as well as lisensing. > Many chiropractors claim that the practice of manipulating the spine > cures all sorts of things; not only is this claim specious on its face > due to lack of evidence, but is often blatantly false. Apnea, for > example, is not established as having anything whatsoever to do with the > spine and its position.
While apnea, etc may not be directly "attached" to the vertebrae, your beathing–or lack thereof,which is invovled in apnea–are controlled by nerves, which come from the spinal cord, which is "housed" in your vertebrae. If the vertebrae shift, cuasing damage to the nerve, the messages cannot travel from the brain/spinal cord to the end region correctly. > Remember what a chiropractor is doing – manipulating your spine, one of > the most important parts of your body, and also one of the most > fragile.
Yes, the spine is very fragile. This is why Doctors of Chiropractic use gentle means of manipulation and recieve intensive training in these methods. It is also why Doctors of Chiropratic utilize x-rays and many other testing methods to determine where, and even if, any spinal misalingments exist. For the > most part, doctors and scientists consider chiropractic (aside from > those who limit their claims to merely treating lower back pain, which > as I mentioned, does appear to help) to be absolute bunk.
This may be your opinoin, but it should not be coniseidered as fact. Many "reputable" sources are recognizing chiropractic care as the positive, non- medicinal soruce which it is. This viewpoint has been written in such mainstream sources as Parenting Magazine, Time, and Newsweek. In addition the APA has begun to suggest referral to Doctors of Chirporatic for treament of many conditions other than lower back pain. I realize that you stated that your intent was only to provide another viewpoint, but perhaps you should so as you suggest and do wome more research in this area before you being to make sweeping statements of negativity. Lesa
Response:
My infant is 6+ weeks old and she has several vertebra that are significantly larger in proportion to the rest of her spine. These start at the base of her spine and move upwards. This area of her spine is also curved outwards and very noticeable to the touch. Is this normal? Should I take her into the doctor before her two month check up to look at this?
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