Pure Parents

Question:

Guilt for what? Being an all-around happy, productive and "fulfilled" human being? Guilt for working to make money to feed, clothe and shelter your children? GUilt for presenting a worthwhile and independent role model for your children??? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Could not have said it better myself. > Could this bitterness be guilt??  Just asking?

Response:

> >If your only mission in life is to meet the needs of your children, I >can see empty nest syndrome in your future, big time. > When you have children isn’t the MAJOR part of being a parent meeting their > needs???  If you choose to have children then you should feel that they are the > first and most important mission.

 THat is probably one of the best reasons to work–so that you can contibute to the food, clothing and shelter bills, be independent and be happy. Working does not take away a childs sense of security, nor does it make them feel any less loved..so I don’t understand which needs you think aren’t being met. > I disagree that all day care is crap, however.  I have been a home daycare > provider for almost 5 years.  We like to eat, have a roof over our heads, and > go to amusement parks too , but I was unwilling to allow someone else to > raise my child.  So, I decided that staying home caring for other people’s > children was the best solution.  (And for the record, I am pretty good at what > I do).

Oh god. Aren’t you a saint.  For the record, I wouldn’t entrust my child to  someone with such a self-righteous attitude and who would look down on me for my choice to work, as they grabbed my money for doing it..Talk about standing behind your beliefs. > – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I think this whole argument has gotten way off track.  It started out as a > discussion about the validity of au pairs, not a bashing of mothers who need to > work outside the home.  If you have to work, you have to work.  But, those of > you who are so upset(and have taken it to the point of talking about your own > miserable childhoods)  maybe need to look at what it is that is so upsetting. > Could it be GUILT??

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > In article <Pine.BSF.3.96.981001095152.12847C- > with… > <snip> >       My question is when your baby  is 5-17 and going to school all day > (i.e, all your children are school-age) and you have 6-7 hours per day to > kill, what are you going to do with yourself? > There are countless ways that parents who don’t work outside of the home > can improve the lives of their children.  To suggest that these parents > sit around all day doing nothing leaves out the reality that they are the > ones taking care of after school activities of *your* children.  Sporting > schedules, scouting, pick ups, Odyssey of the Mind, PTA, room parenting, > school escorting, band, dance recitals, auxiliaries of the above, etc. > You’d be surprised of the lack of volunteerism for these kids.  The > immense amount of work these parents do for children in general is > overshadowed by personal greed of those who don’t even have a clue of > what other parents do for their kids.

Wait a second here!!!!!! This is IMHO a totally unjustified attack on WOH moms.  The school my children attend has enormous volunteerism, and IME there is not a great deal of difference in the level of participation among WOH and SAH parents. Many WOH parents are PTG members, room parents, in classroom volunteers, soccer coaches, girls scout troop leaders etc.  There are people both of the SAH and WOH who don’t carry their weight, but that will be true in any group. To say that the SAH parents are the ones taking care of the afterschool activities for the WOH parents is just not true, from what I have seen.   One woman I admire is a grils scout troop leader, runs one of the major academic events for the school, is FT WOH, and IS A SINGLE MOM.  It blows me away how she manages, but she does. Personal greed?  I don’t think so.  Dedication and hard work on the part of almost all the parents… woh, sah, or somewhere in between (which is where most of my peers with school age children are:  work strange hours, volunteer, take care of our kids and homes) Enid

Response:

<in response to Sarah, unattributed:> >Could not have said it better myself. > Could this bitterness be guilt??  Just asking?

Could this be bi**hiness?  Just asking? — Linda The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.

Response:

No.  Why should I feel guilty for doing what I have to do?  I live my life and do the best I can.  And, since I’m doing the best I can I have nothing to feel guilty about. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Could this bitterness be guilt??  Just asking?

Response:

Actually a child needs both.  Who would you rather your child look up to? You or one of these over-paid ego-inflated people that you see on TV.  Your child will look to someone to be their role-model. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >And another thing:  your pre-schooler doesn’t need a role-model.  She needs her >mommy. >Ginger

Response:

>Could not have said it better myself.

Could this bitterness be guilt??  Just asking?

Response:

I think most of you are high.  As though I would suggest that a single parent would have any other alternatives than to work.  As though I would think that working while the kids were in school would be bad.  Please.  And the suggestion that I’m careening towards "empty nest" syndrome was just too much. Blahblahblah. And another thing:  your pre-schooler doesn’t need a role-model.  She needs her mommy. Ginger

Response:

<in response to me, unattributed:> >If your only mission in life is to meet the needs of your children, I >can see empty nest syndrome in your future, big time. > When you have children isn’t the MAJOR part of being a parent meeting their > needs???  If you choose to have children then you should feel that they are the > first and most important mission.

When you change the words, you change the meaning of what I said.  I didn’t say "major;" I said, "only."  The words are not synonymous.  You also changed my statement from "mission in life" to "part of being a parent," which also drastically changes what I said.  So please don’t rewrite what I said and then critique your revision as if they’re my words. > I disagree that all day care is crap, however.  I have been a home daycare > provider for almost 5 years.  We like to eat, have a roof over our heads, and > go to amusement parks too , but I was unwilling to allow someone else to > raise my child.  So, I decided that staying home caring for other people’s > children was the best solution.  (And for the record, I am pretty good at what > I do).

Do you look down your nose at the parents who have to bring their children to you?  If you think you’re raising their children rather than merely tending to them, then you’re *not* so good at what you do. > I think this whole argument has gotten way off track.  It started out as a > discussion about the validity of au pairs, not a bashing of mothers who need to > work outside the home.  If you have to work, you have to work.  But, those of > you who are so upset(and have taken it to the point of talking about your own > miserable childhoods)  maybe need to look at what it is that is so upsetting.

I talk about my miserable childhood because I’m sick of the cult of motherhood, and the myth of the perfect SAHM.  Mothers are people just like everyone else.  They don’t magically become perfect just because they gave birth.  Some mothers are born to it, some rise to the occasion, and some just never get it.  Most of us just do what we feel we need to do under our given circumstances, and we’d do it a lot better without perfect people setting the standards. > Could it be GUILT??

Of course I have felt some sense of guilt (there, do you feel better now that you can get in a dig at WOH moms again?), but as a single mother whose choices were working or welfare, I’ve had to live with it.  Life is full of Hobson’s choices. — Linda The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.

Response:

>If your only mission in life is to meet the needs of your children, I >can see empty nest syndrome in your future, big time.

When you have children isn’t the MAJOR part of being a parent meeting their needs???  If you choose to have children then you should feel that they are the first and most important mission. I disagree that all day care is crap, however.  I have been a home daycare provider for almost 5 years.  We like to eat, have a roof over our heads, and go to amusement parks too , but I was unwilling to allow someone else to raise my child.  So, I decided that staying home caring for other people’s children was the best solution.  (And for the record, I am pretty good at what I do). I think this whole argument has gotten way off track.  It started out as a discussion about the validity of au pairs, not a bashing of mothers who need to work outside the home.  If you have to work, you have to work.  But, those of you who are so upset(and have taken it to the point of talking about your own miserable childhoods)  maybe need to look at what it is that is so upsetting. Could it be GUILT??

Response:

"I loved it when my mother worked.  Then she couldn’t be home beating us for looking at her cross-eyed, and telling us how much she wished we’d never been born.  I would have liked her to be fulfilled–then she wouldn’t have had so many hostilities to take out on us.  Kids *do* care if their parents are happy, especially when it’s not something they can take for granted. If your only mission in life is to meet the needs of your children, I can see empty nest syndrome in your future, big time. —            "  Awesome, thoughtful post, LInda…couldn’t have said it better.

Response:

I agree.  I am on maternity leave and I am looking forward to going back to work ( I job-share 20 hrs/week).  I believe that, for me, working 40 hrs a week would be too much but this job-share is perfect for me.  By the time I am finished my work week I am looking forward to being home with my kids. By the end of my stay home week I am looking forward to going back to work. The balance is perfect for me.  Work is fullfilling because I can be with my peers and not just children and I can be valued for the degree I worked so hard to obtain.    I definitely don’t do it for the money because that is swalled up by travel & daycare but in addition to the above benefits it is an investment.  I will have a career when my kids go to school full-time.  I am a role model for my children.  My children get to socialize and play activities with other children (they and I get rangy staying at home all the time)  I believe motherhood is extremely rewarding but so is my career.  I have made sacrifices in my career, I just haven’t destroyed it and when my kids are doing their own thing I will have mine to do too. Lorraine Mother of Maxwell & Charlotte (2 yrs) & Madeline (3 mths) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >"I think that rearing an emotionally healthy child is about as fulfilling >as it >gets.  And when it comes down to it, your kid doesn’t give a crap whether >you’re fulfilled or not…they just want a PARENT to love them and take >care of >them.  Full-time.   " > First of all, so do I.  Rearing my child is "as fulfilling as it gets". >My job is also fulfilling, learning and going to school to me are also >fulfilling, improving myself in every way is "fulfilling".. WHy do they >have to conflict?  My child is emotionally healthy. SHe will, contrary to >your sensationalistic beliefs that daycare leads to crime, suicide,and >divorce (now where did you get those figures??), go on to lead a >"fulfilling" life..(and if you want a real figure- studies have suggested >that children who see their mothers working either outside of the home or >putting much time and effort into a worthwhile cause outside of the home >AS well as raising children garner more respect from their chidren in the >long run)… > My question is when your baby  is 5-17 and going to school all day >(i.e, all your children are school-age) and you have 6-7 hours per day to >kill, what are you going to do with yourself?  I would suggest you do >something for yourself…take a class, get a job..Maybe get your husband >TO stay home..Otherwise, you might grow older and more bitter and >resentful than you are right now.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > First of all, so do I.  Rearing my child is "as fulfilling as it gets". >My job is also fulfilling, learning and going to school to me are also >fulfilling, improving myself in every way is "fulfilling".. WHy do they >have to conflict?  My child is emotionally healthy. SHe will, contrary to >your sensationalistic beliefs that daycare leads to crime, suicide,and >divorce (now where did you get those figures??), go on to lead a >"fulfilling" life..(and if you want a real figure- studies have suggested >that children who see their mothers working either outside of the home or >putting much time and effort into a worthwhile cause outside of the home >AS well as raising children garner more respect from their chidren in the >long run)… > My question is when your baby  is 5-17 and going to school all day >(i.e, all your children are school-age) and you have 6-7 hours per day to >kill, what are you going to do with yourself?  I would suggest you do >something for yourself…take a class, get a job..Maybe get your husband >TO stay home..Otherwise, you might grow older and more bitter and >resentful than you are right now.

Could not have said it better myself.

Response:

"I think that rearing an emotionally healthy child is about as fulfilling as it gets.  And when it comes down to it, your kid doesn’t give a crap whether you’re fulfilled or not…they just want a PARENT to love them and take care of them.  Full-time.   "  First of all, so do I.  Rearing my child is "as fulfilling as it gets". My job is also fulfilling, learning and going to school to me are also fulfilling, improving myself in every way is "fulfilling".. WHy do they have to conflict?  My child is emotionally healthy. SHe will, contrary to your sensationalistic beliefs that daycare leads to crime, suicide,and divorce (now where did you get those figures??), go on to lead a "fulfilling" life..(and if you want a real figure- studies have suggested that children who see their mothers working either outside of the home or putting much time and effort into a worthwhile cause outside of the home AS well as raising children garner more respect from their chidren in the long run)…         My question is when your baby  is 5-17 and going to school all day (i.e, all your children are school-age) and you have 6-7 hours per day to kill, what are you going to do with yourself?  I would suggest you do something for yourself…take a class, get a job..Maybe get your husband TO stay home..Otherwise, you might grow older and more bitter and resentful than you are right now.

Response:

> I think that rearing an emotionally healthy child is about as fulfilling as it > gets.  And when it comes down to it, your kid doesn’t give a crap whether > you’re fulfilled or not…they just want a PARENT to love them and take care of > them.  Full-time. > And I still think daycare is crap.

Oh goody, another SAH/WOH flame war.  Thanks so much. I’m a single parent.  I have to work.  I had to use day care.  I’m sick of these perfect mom stories about how staying home is ’so fulfilling’ (at the same time they complain about being stuck in the house and not getting help with housework), and how moms who work don’t love their kids.  I would have loved to stay home with my kid (if for no other reason than I hated my job), but we like to eat.  If you stay home, it’s because you want to.  Leave the WOH moms alone.  If you work, you’re neither better nor worse than anyone else.  You’re just doing what you feel you have to do, but you can’t expect the same decision of others. Leave the SAH moms alone. I loved it when my mother worked.  Then she couldn’t be home beating us for looking at her cross-eyed, and telling us how much she wished we’d never been born.  I would have liked her to be fulfilled–then she wouldn’t have had so many hostilities to take out on us.  Kids *do* care if their parents are happy, especially when it’s not something they can take for granted. If your only mission in life is to meet the needs of your children, I can see empty nest syndrome in your future, big time. — Linda The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.

Response:

>Au Pair is a girl or boy 18 to 24 years who spends a year in your house, >looking after the kids and learning the language of this country. They get >about USD 200 /month plus living and food. You have another word for

that? I don’t have a word for it, but I am astounded at the idea. I can’t see myself trusting some kid I didn’t know and with whom I couldn’t even properly communicate to live in my house and look after my kids. Wow. Well, perhaps I’m just not a trusting kinda guy, but I like those who watch my kids to be certified by the state to do so, and the only people I’d let live in my house is my family. Wow. Have a great day! Ernest Proud father of Alexander Brandon (9/24/94) and Savannah Georgia (1/9/96) (http://www.public.asu.edu/~ernestf/myfamily/fairchild.html)

Response:

> People just want the cheapest care for their children. They don’t care > about the quality.

An au pair is not even *close* to being the cheapest care for one’s child.  I could never have afforded any kind of in-home child care, and certainly never live-in care.  There are enormous expenses involved with having an au pair.  I wonder, though, if hiring these girls was some kind of status symbol for the parents. >>Au Pair is a girl or boy 18 to 24 years who spends a year in your >house, >>looking after the kids and learning the language of this country.

– Linda The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.

Response:

>> I >didn’t know what DH was for the longest time! >Dawn (Taylor and Mackenzie’s mom)

Forgive the off topic question, but Dawn, Please tell me what DH means… I see it here and in alt.support.step-parents…  Just can’t seem to get the brain kicking hard enough to figure it out….   Maybe I’m just being slow lately…. Thanks, Julie

Response:

My husband just finished reading this ongoing discourse on daycare.  As far as getting to be the one to find "fulfillment outside of the home", he wanted me to point out that he finds spending time with our son to be far more fulfilling than even working his dream job…as a matter of fact, he has even hinted that he’d rather stay home and rear our baby! I think that rearing an emotionally healthy child is about as fulfilling as it gets.  And when it comes down to it, your kid doesn’t give a crap whether you’re fulfilled or not…they just want a PARENT to love them and take care of them.  Full-time. And I still think daycare is crap.   Ginger

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->We are living in Karlsruhe, Germany and are looking for an Au Pair > atarting >about March/April 1999. >We have two kids, Sabrina 5 and Sebastian 3. >Employment would be via an official Au Pair Agency in Karlsruhe. > I’m sure I’m going to get it for this, but what’s an Au Pair? > Have a great day! > Ernest > Proud father of > Alexander Brandon (9/24/94) and Savannah Georgia (1/9/96) > (http://www.public.asu.edu/~ernestf/myfamily/fairchild.html)

Au Pair is a girl or boy 18 to 24 years who spends a year in your house, looking after the kids and learning the language of this country. They get about USD 200 /month plus living and food. You have another word for that? Regards Andreas

Response:

An Au Pair is a nanny or caregiver!  And you won’t ‘get it’ from me!  I didn’t know what DH was for the longest time! Dawn (Taylor and Mackenzie’s mom) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m sure I’m going to get it for this, but what’s an Au Pair? > Have a great day! > Ernest > Proud father of > Alexander Brandon (9/24/94) and Savannah Georgia (1/9/96) > (http://www.public.asu.edu/~ernestf/myfamily/fairchild.html) >Au Pair is a girl or boy 18 to 24 years who spends a year in your house, >looking after the kids and learning the language of this country. They get >about USD 200 /month plus living and food. You have another word for that? >Regards >Andreas

Response:

> >We are living in Karlsruhe, Germany and are looking for an Au Pair > atarting >about March/April 1999. >We have two kids, Sabrina 5 and Sebastian 3. >Employment would be via an official Au Pair Agency in Karlsruhe. > I’m sure I’m going to get it for this, but what’s an Au Pair?

It’s someone who comes from another country and lives in your home  (as a member of the family, sort of) and is supposed to: 1) Have a cultural learning experience (language classes, etc.) 2)Recieve a small weekly stipend (about 150 US dollars a week I think, here in the US) for 3) Providing a limited amount of childcare.  In the US, this limited amount is MUCH higher than in many european countries, closer to 45 hours a week. Partly because it is marketed here as an alternative to daycare. Au pairs are not usually trained as childcare professionals, they often recieve a small amount of instruction (including first aid/cpr) upon arrival. They are supposed to stay for one year. We all know lots more about au pairs than we used to, especially here in New England, since the recent case in which a young English Au Pair was tried for murder of a baby in her care (the eventual verdict was a tangled legal situation).   Enid

Response:

We are living in Karlsruhe, Germany and are looking for an Au Pair atarting about March/April 1999. We have two kids, Sabrina 5 and Sebastian 3. Employment would be via an official Au Pair Agency in Karlsruhe.

Response:

>We are living in Karlsruhe, Germany and are looking for an Au Pair atarting >about March/April 1999. >We have two kids, Sabrina 5 and Sebastian 3. >Employment would be via an official Au Pair Agency in Karlsruhe.

I’m sure I’m going to get it for this, but what’s an Au Pair? Have a great day! Ernest Proud father of Alexander Brandon (9/24/94) and Savannah Georgia (1/9/96) (http://www.public.asu.edu/~ernestf/myfamily/fairchild.html)

Response: