Pure Parents

Question:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Monika writes: >>Meanwhile I can use some suggestions in >>how to stay calm when you really feel like "exploting" on >those "bad" >>days.   >Try putting yourself in "time out" for a few minutes.   >How about those situations where you *have* to get something done NOW or go >somewhere NOW and one of the kids starts acting up (you know, "NO, I won’t >put on my shoes, or get my coat, or whatever it is that they decide is >critical to their ability to retain their personal identity right at that >moment").  You don’t have time to put yourself in time out.  Talking is nice, >but usually doesn’t work.  What do you do??????   >I’m really curious what others have to suggest.  Please don’t bother with the >"do you *really* have to . . . "   >DCK

This has happen a few times when my daughter doesn’t want to leave her grandma’s house (who would? ).  I ask her "do you want to put your shoes and coat on or would you rather I carry you out to the car?"   Since she is a very independant child she’s chooses to put her shoes and coat on.  And if she stalls and takes too long, she knows that means I will carry her anyway.  Once I had to actually pick her up and carry her to the car.  She knew from then on that I would really do it. And don’t worry if it is cold out (when winter comes again of course).  Going from the house to the car without a coat won’t hurt her, but the chill might bother her enough that she won’t do it again.

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>To sum up my experiences and advice: for smaller children, >just lead them by the hand, carry them and their stuff if >necessary. For older children, try to back away from the >battle and leave it up to them, let them be late, let them >stay home alone for awhile, etc. In short, let them suffer >some natural consequences for their dawdling.

Thanks for the suggestion, Susan.  I used to do all of that, but now that I have two babies, I don’t have any extra hands for dealing with the older girls.  I think love and logic is the real solution, but that takes planning and careful execution — most of the time I’m lucky to get out the door with everyone fully clothed and fed and brilliant parenting seems out of reach  I don’t know about you, but when I reach the office every morning, I have to stop and take inventory:  do my clothes match?  Is everything right side out and on correctly?  Do I have breakfast on any of my clothes?  Do my shoes match?  Sad, but true DCK

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>To sum up my experiences and advice: for smaller children, >just lead them by the hand, carry them and their stuff if >necessary. For older children, try to back away from the >battle and leave it up to them, let them be late, let them >stay home alone for awhile, etc. In short, let them suffer >some natural consequences for their dawdling.

Thanks for the suggestion, Susan.  I used to do all of that, but now that I have two babies, I don’t have any extra hands for dealing with the older girls.  I think love and logic is the real solution, but that takes planning and careful execution — most of the time I’m lucky to get out the door with everyone fully clothed and fed and brilliant parenting seems out of reach  I don’t know about you, but when I reach the office every morning, I have to stop and take inventory:  do my clothes match?  Is everything right side out and on correctly?  Do I have breakfast on any of my clothes?  Do my shoes match?  Sad, but true DCK — | | This message has passed thru The GIFfer Skylink

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Monika writes: >>Meanwhile I can use some suggestions in >>how to stay calm when you really feel like "exploting" on >those "bad" >>days. >Try putting yourself in "time out" for a few minutes. > How about those situations where you *have* to get something done NOW or go > somewhere NOW and one of the kids starts acting up (you know, "NO, I won’t > put on my shoes, or get my coat, or whatever it is that they decide is > critical to their ability to retain their personal identity right at that > moment").  You don’t have time to put yourself in time out.  Talking is nice, > but usually doesn’t work.  What do you do?????? > I’m really curious what others have to suggest.  Please don’t bother with the > "do you *really* have to . . . "

What to do when you’re really in a hurry, the child is uncooperative, and you don’t have time to talk or argue or have a time out or anything? One thing you can do in some situations is just pick up the child, his shoes, coat, whatever you need, and GO. This is assuming that the child is physically still small enough that you can accomplish this. Or, grab the kid’s shoes, coat, etc., and then just take them by the hand. I have done this in situations where, even though ordinarily the child did all their own dressing, etc., they weren’t doing it fast enough for my timetable at that moment. If the child is too big for this, then in some situations, he or she could be just left at home alone for awhile. With older children, I just say, "I’ll wait in the car," and go on out. They have learned to hurry up and get ready and come out. I am talking age nine and up maybe here. In some situations where you feel you really "have" to get there on time, but the child is repeatedly dawdling, I have talked to a supervisor, teacher, whoever, and let them know that I am having trouble with this and will probably be late for a few days – then do the "I’ll wait in the car" routine for a few days, and just wait and wait and wait. Eventually, the child has come out. The power struggle is ended, and soon the child gets tired of being late to school or whatever, and starts hurrying himself up. Again, this is for older children, who really hate to be embarassed by coming in late, etc. To sum up my experiences and advice: for smaller children, just lead them by the hand, carry them and their stuff if necessary. For older children, try to back away from the battle and leave it up to them, let them be late, let them stay home alone for awhile, etc. In short, let them suffer some natural consequences for their dawdling. As a parent of older children, let me also say that it does get easier, and my children are usually waiting in the car for me now, so don’t despair!! Susan

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writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (DebraKriz) writes: >Monika writes: >>Meanwhile I can use some suggestions in >>how to stay calm when you really feel like "exploting" on >those "bad" >>days.   >Try putting yourself in "time out" for a few minutes.   >How about those situations where you *have* to get something done NOW or go >somewhere NOW and one of the kids starts acting up (you know, "NO, I won’t >put on my shoes, or get my coat, or whatever it is that they decide is >critical to their ability to retain their personal identity right at that >moment").  You don’t have time to put yourself in time out.  Talking is nice, >but usually doesn’t work.  What do you do??????   >I’m really curious what others have to suggest.  Please don’t bother with the >"do you *really* have to . . . "   >DCK

   When this happens (and it is thankfully a relatively rare occurrence)  I tell Keithie "I’m sorry, we need to do this now."  Then I grab the shoes, the coat, the kid, and walk out the door.  If he has to go to school in his stocking feet, or get dressed in the car, so be it.  Hopefully, these scenes will be a thing of the past by the time he gets too big to carry, though! :>                         Phan MacLennan

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>Monika writes: >Meanwhile I can use some suggestions in >how to stay calm when you really feel like "exploting" on >those "bad" >days.   >Try putting yourself in "time out" for a few minutes.  

How about those situations where you *have* to get something done NOW or go somewhere NOW and one of the kids starts acting up (you know, "NO, I won’t put on my shoes, or get my coat, or whatever it is that they decide is critical to their ability to retain their personal identity right at that moment").  You don’t have time to put yourself in time out.  Talking is nice, but usually doesn’t work.  What do you do??????   I’m really curious what others have to suggest.  Please don’t bother with the "do you *really* have to . . . "   DCK

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Monika writes: >Meanwhile I can use some suggestions in >how to stay calm when you really feel like "exploting" on >those "bad" >days.  

Try putting yourself in "time out" for a few minutes.  When  I’ve just "had it" from a horrible day and I know that one more thing will make me say something I’ll regret later I tell my daughter "Mom is feeling very angry/frustrated right now and I need  some quiet time so I can get rid of these feelings.  I’ll set the timer and see you in 5 minutes".  Or if you still have a grip on yourself and some sense of humor you can explain to your child that you need to work off your frustration.  Go outside with a jump rope and jump as fast and furiously as you can.  Both ways are almost guaranteed to help plus they have the added bonus of letting your chil know it’s okay to feel that way and how to deal with it. Good luck,…… Debra

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I don’t believe in spanking kids, it is really impressing what some of you the nonspankers have achieved.  I have three kids: 9mo, 2 1/2 and 5 1/2 plus my 12 yr old step son.  Sometimes it is hard to stay calm and you do feel like spanking though it’s not the right thing to do.  I am a loving mother and I like to praise my kids and raise them knowing the consequences of their acts.  I think all these postings should help for every parent here to learn some "techniques" from each other on how to raise better our kids……do not criticize each other, help each other; after all we all love our kid(s).  Meanwhile I can use some suggestions in how to stay calm when you really feel like "exploting" on those "bad" days.  Thanks

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Phan, Wonderful post!  You and I are very alike in our anti-spanking philosophy and you were able to articulate it very clearly.  I raised a step-daughter for 13 years (she is now 20) and I never "spanked" her, nor have I ever "spanked" my 10-year-old.  It takes much more time and patience to not resort to a "smack or two" but the rewards are great.  One additional benefit of being a non-spanker is that I’ve never seen my daughter look at my raised arm with fear in her eyes.  When I raise my hand to her she knows that I’m coming in for either a tickle or a hug and she doesn’t cower from me like I did from my mother. Debra

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The purpose of the original post had very little to do with the issue of >spanking and a lot to do with the issue of judging other parents. People with >only one child, or only a young child, have had only limited parenting >experience — you may be the best parent in the world, but your experience is >limited.   >When you have more than one child, and as children grow, you usually have >the *opportunity* to learn that the techniques that work splendidly with one >child, won’t get you to first base with the next.  Sometimes the >techniques that work in a setting which involves only one child, won’t >work if there are two or more children involved.  Once you’ve come >face-to-face with that reality,  you also realize that you can’t judge other >people’s parenting techniques.  When you see someone doing a bad job of >parenting, just remember that *you* might very well do just as bad of a job if >*you* were parenting that particular child in that particular setting.  Your >success with *your* child in *your* setting cannot be generalized. >So, Phan, I hope you don’t "come around" on the issue of spanking *your* >child.  Spanking is not a technique to be applauded.  However, I do hope you >"come around" on the issue of judging other parents. >DCK >P.S.  Why don’t we talk about the real *olympics* of parenting — sibling >rivalry.  

 That I will come around???!!!  Excuse me, but you will notice that as a general rule I stay out of all of the judgemental flame-throwing that goes on in these threads.  In fact, I stay out of these threads almost entirely.  There’s alot of passing judgement going on on both sides of the issue here, and to claim that it is only on the anti-side is unfair.  The spankers pass judgement by claiming that our (non-spanked) kids are being allowed to run all over us and are the reason that society is going to pot.  The anti’s pass judgement claiming that all people who spank are child-beaters unworthy of the air they breath. These judgements are made by many people, on both sides of the issue, with any number or age of children.  It is not only those of us with "limmited experience" (Which is BS, in my book) that make these statements.  In fact, it is PROMARILY those with at least two children! I don’t agree with EITHER of those theories, nor do I believe I have ever claimed to.  I disagree with hitting children, because it is ineffective and sends mixed messages.  It has nothing to do with how I judge the other parent.         Phan

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In <3 > > I’m curious about the people who are opposed to spanking.  How many of you > > have more than one child? > > DCK

  I am getting VERY tired of people insinuating that because someone has only one child, or very young children (my son is 2 1/2) that we are incompetant misinformed idiots, living in some sort of fantasy world and that when we have more children, or our current one ages some, that we’ll "come around."   Yes, I realize that it is harder to parent multiple children at one time.  This is EXACTLY why I do not spank.  It is too easy to give my son a quick slap at the moment of the infraction.  It is much harder to take time to teach my son what sort of behavior is socially acceptable, or safe, or "respectful" (a loaded word, IMO).  It is harder, and more inconvenient, but I can be sure that by taking the time to teach these things, that the infractions will be far fewer, and farther between.  He is not learning that certain behaviours are to be avoided because he will be punnished for them ,but rather that they are flat out wrong, or unsafe, or "disrespectful".  I do not want to control my child.  I want my child to learn to control himself.  While he was younger, and could not do that, I had to control his ENVIRONMENT.  My nephew (oldest of two) was spanked from infancy (maybe 10 months old or so).   He is now 5.  I had an interesting conversation with him last week, that went like this: Me:  John-Thomas, do we grab toys from Katie (his sister) John-Thomas: No. Me:  Why not? John-Thomas: Because I might get a spanking. Me: And what about coloring on the walls?  Is that okay? John-Thomas: No. Me: Why not? John-Thomas: Because I’d get punnished. Me: And do we call people names? John-Thomas: No. Me: Why not? John-Thomas: Daddy would spank me.   This same conversation with my 2 1/2 y-o went like this: Me: Keithie, do we take toys from Katie? Keithie: No.  It’s not nice. Me: And what about coloring on the walls? Keithie: Walls aren’t for coloring. I color on paper. Me: And do we call people names? Keithie? No.  It’s not nice.  They might cry.   Enlightening, isn’t it?  This is the reason why I don’t spank my son.  It has nothing to do with being inexperienced, or misinformed, or living in some fantasy world.  It has everything to do with wanting my son to grow up knowing not only right form wrong, but WHY it is right and wrong, and with a firm sense of self-discipline.  Sorry this is so long.  I just had to vent.          Phan

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >In <3 >> > I’m curious about the people who are opposed to spanking.  How >many of you >> > have more than one child? >> > DCK >  I am getting VERY tired of people insinuating that because someone >has only one child, or very young children (my son is 2 1/2) that we >are incompetant misinformed idiots, living in some sort of fantasy >world and that when we have more children, or our current one ages >some, that we’ll "come around."  

Hi Phan The purpose of the original post had very little to do with the issue of spanking and a lot to do with the issue of judging other parents.  People with only one child, or only a young child, have had only limited parenting experience — you may be the best parent in the world, but your experience is limited.   When you have more than one child, and as children grow, you usually have the *opportunity* to learn that the techniques that work splendidly with one child, won’t get you to first base with the next.  Sometimes the techniques that work in a setting which involves only one child, won’t work if there are two or more children involved.  Once you’ve come face-to-face with that reality,  you also realize that you can’t judge other people’s parenting techniques.  When you see someone doing a bad job of parenting, just remember that *you* might very well do just as bad of a job if *you* were parenting that particular child in that particular setting.  Your success with *your* child in *your* setting cannot be generalized. So, Phan, I hope you don’t "come around" on the issue of spanking *your* child.  Spanking is not a technique to be applauded.  However, I do hope you "come around" on the issue of judging other parents. DCK P.S.  Why don’t we talk about the real *olympics* of parenting — sibling rivalry.  

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We have 3 sons, twin boys and a singleton. We have never resorted to spanking and so far, so good! Laurie

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Wow, it seems to me that you’re the judgmental one!  Read what I wrote again, because I sure didn’t intend to sound obnoxious. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >(Nell Minow) writes: >I’m strongly opposed and have two kids (now 10 and 12 and exceptionally >polite and well-behaved, without having been spanked)–I am not sure why >you think there will be a correlation, unless you think that less >time/patience/attention justifies hitting someone, rather than trying to >justify it as what is best for the child. >For goodness sake, she simply asked a question! Do you have to get so >judgemental and obnoxious because of a simple question? If I’m not >mistaken, she didn’t say wether she approved of spanking or not. GET A >GRIP PEOPLE!!!!!

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> > I’m curious about the people who are opposed to spanking.  How many of you > have more than one child? > DCK

Sorry Barbara–I missed the original post so I responding through yours. I have two, ages 13 and 17.  I have never hit them and never will.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(StephyBard) writes: >(Nell Minow) writes: >I’m strongly opposed and have two kids (now 10 and 12 and exceptionally >polite and well-behaved, without having been spanked)–I am not sure why >you think there will be a correlation, unless you think that less >time/patience/attention justifies hitting someone, rather than trying to >justify it as what is best for the child. >For goodness sake, she simply asked a question! Do you have to get so >judgemental and obnoxious because of a simple question? If I’m not >mistaken, she didn’t say wether she approved of spanking or not. GET A >GRIP PEOPLE!!!!!

DITTO Stephy!!  My goodness what breeds such incredible self-righteousness.  I DON’T approve of spanking but – I’ve also seen plenty of parents who don’t spank their children yet neglect them emotionally.  While I’ve also seen parents who occassionally spank and at the same time provide a far more nurturing and supportive environment than these self-righteous hyper-90’s parents.

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: (StephyBard) writes: : >(Nell Minow) writes:

: > : >>I’m strongly opposed and have two kids (now 10 and 12 and exceptionally : >>polite and well-behaved, without having been spanked)–I am not sure why : >>you think there will be a correlation, unless you think that less : >>time/patience/attention justifies hitting someone, rather than trying to : >>justify it as what is best for the child. : >For goodness sake, she simply asked a question! Do you have to get so : >judgemental and obnoxious because of a simple question? If I’m not : >mistaken, she didn’t say wether she approved of spanking or not. GET A : DITTO Stephy!!  My goodness what breeds such incredible : self-righteousness.  I DON’T approve of spanking but – I’ve also seen : plenty of parents who don’t spank their children yet neglect them : emotionally.  While I’ve also seen parents who occassionally spank and at : the same time provide a far more nurturing and supportive environment than : these self-righteous hyper-90’s parents. In my opinion, it’s impossible to simultaneously hit and nurture.

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I’m strongly opposed and have two kids (now 10 and 12 and exceptionally polite and well-behaved, without having been spanked)–I am not sure why you think there will be a correlation, unless you think that less time/patience/attention justifies hitting someone, rather than trying to justify it as what is best for the child.

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> I’m curious about the people who are opposed to spanking.  How many of you > have more than one child? > DCK

        I have 4 children – 3 sons (oldest 2 are twins) and 1 girl who  is the youngest.

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(Nell Minow) writes: >I’m strongly opposed and have two kids (now 10 and 12 and exceptionally >polite and well-behaved, without having been spanked)–I am not sure why >you think there will be a correlation, unless you think that less >time/patience/attention justifies hitting someone, rather than trying to >justify it as what is best for the child.

For goodness sake, she simply asked a question! Do you have to get so judgemental and obnoxious because of a simple question? If I’m not mistaken, she didn’t say wether she approved of spanking or not. GET A GRIP PEOPLE!!!!!

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> I’m curious about the people who are opposed to spanking.  How many of you > have more than one child? > DCK

We have 2 kids, one girl 7 years and a boy 8 months. Zero behavioural problems of any consequence with either (yet) and neither have ever been spanked even once. Yes, of course the older girl forgets her glasses, and she’s starting to assert herself – but these are human behaviours as far as we’re concerned. Now I’m curious why you think having more than one child would make any difference! Good Luck with the Parenting thing. . . Greg Lubianetzky Father to Teri, 7 years and Tom, 8 months

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I’m curious about the people who are opposed to spanking.  How many of you have more than one child? DCK

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> I’m curious about the people who are opposed to spanking.  How many of you > have more than one child? > DCK

We do.  We have a one year old and a three year old.  Why? Sincerely, Jennifer

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: I’m curious about the people who are opposed to spanking.  How many of you : have more than one child? Most of us from what I’ve seen.  All ages, too.  Why?  What possible difference does that make? — |     "May you live in interesting times"     |

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