Pure Parents

Question:

> It’s kind of funny to hear parents say, "Oh, yes, my child is in a >wonderful daycare.  They send us flyers and leaflets and we have potlucks >and conferences and lectures, etc."  Sounds like they have more >interraction with the daycare than with their child.    

I spent a lot of time (especially at first) getting to know everything about my center and the staff.  I now take more things on trust.  We focus on school a lot because we want to build relationships with the other families.  My wife still sees her "best friend since nursery school" regularly 30 years later.   I am delighted that my infant is very attached to her caregiver.  Learning to trust and love are important lessons.  My kid is also as attached to her dad (me) as any kid I know.  She’s also very secure and independent (as evidenced by how well she plays by herself and by how well she soothes herself to sleep). Levity is the dearth of gravity.  Brevity is the height of clarity.  

Response:

>  So my question is, why is it that teachers are paid so little when they >are doing something so important?I loved my job but had to quit because >obviously I couldn’t cut it financially. I’d be interested in hearing >parents perspectives and input. Thanks!

Probably the same reason that being a stay-at-home-parent isn’t considered a "real job".   By the way, I keep hearing of day care workers saying that they would never put their own kids into daycare after seeing what goes on there.  Are there any former day care people (not parents who observe their daycares twice a day) who would put their own kids in daycare?       It’s kind of funny to hear parents say, "Oh, yes, my child is in a wonderful daycare.  They send us flyers and leaflets and we have potlucks and conferences and lectures, etc."  Sounds like they have more interraction with the daycare than with their child.     Hmmm.

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I don’t know how mucht my kid’s primary teacher makes but i pay $890/month and the it was just announced that rates are going up to $950/month.  I can’t complain about the care but i’m also not concerned whether the teacher is getting her fair share.  I can’t pay much more!!! Kind Regards, Stephen Rosales

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My point is, childcare workers won’t make more money until parents > realize what they are not getting for these rates. And maybe some > parents > just need to reprioritize the budgets. > You have that exactly right ! Our children are our most precious thing > and should be treated as such. Like when I hear parents trying to get > the cheapest formular, not even checking if its OK or good enough for > thier children, like they couldn’t cut their budget somewhere else. I > can see buying the cheapest diapers, but food really! > I’d starve rather than see my child eat anything substandard. > Take Care > Chris

Here’s an idea.  How about cutting the taxes of parents? This would give the parents more money to spend on such things as clothes, food, and day care.  And the govt has pretty much proven that it can’t get results with the $. —        http://reality.sgi.com/employees/keithk_engr/index.html The desire for security stands against every great and noble enterprise.                                      - Cornelius Tacitus (c.56-c.120)

Response:

> My point is, childcare workers won’t make more money until parents > realize what they are not getting for these rates. And maybe some parents > just need to reprioritize the budgets.

You have that exactly right ! Our children are our most precious thing and should be treated as such. Like when I hear parents trying to get the cheapest formular, not even checking if its OK or good enough for thier children, like they couldn’t cut their budget somewhere else. I can see buying the cheapest diapers, but food really! I’d starve rather than see my child eat anything substandard. Take Care Chris

Response:

My sister also has a degree in  EARLY EDUCATION only an AA, but none the less a degree. She has been with the same day Care (more of a pre-school, IMHO) for over 5 yrs now. Luckily she is still at home with my mother.   The Teachers at this school ( I say teachers (because they all have degrees, I also say school because I have seen first hand what children are taught there on a daily basis) are incredibly dedicated. It is a good thing none of them have to survive on what they get paid. It’s also VERY sad. They get yelled at for being closed (when the roads are unsafe to drive or such as this weekend when a Hurricane hit). Very little gratitude with this job.  I think your question is an age old one…. To defend working parents (altho I am not one of them) I would like to know why QUALITY care costs So much and the teachers don’t see any of it?  I have always thought, even before my children were born, that Teaching is the MOST important proffession in the world and therefore should be the hardest to get into and the HIGHEST paid. Our teachers are molding the future.  I think you may have started a war on the group here <grin> but a justifiable one at that. I stay home NOT because I can afford to but because I can’t afford to shell out 95.00 to 115.00 a week. Plus, I’d rather go without than miss this time with my son. My daughter turned 6 way too fast and I stayed home with her also. I also babysit for a 16mo. old 3 days a week and get 20.00 a day for him (which I feel is MORE than fair, altho as he’s gotten older he’s gotten tougher). But then again our children come FIRST in our lives above and beyond ANYTHING else. Raising them to be happy, healthy, confident children is a job we take pride in.  So if you do get an answer to your question, please pass it along I’m sure the teachers I know would love to find out WHY their pay is awful!  JUST MY.02  Ann – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Newgroups: alt.parenting.solutions > I have a question that perhaps someone can assist me with.  As we all know > children are the most precious thing in the world to their parents.  So I > was wondering why it is that nanny postions, day care centers and many > preschools are notorious for expecting their employees to work long hours > for such low pay.  For a year after I graduated from college I worked at a > national day care chain  and was paid a few dollars above minimum wage. > Even with a collage degree and 2 years of experience working with small > children, I was still only making 7.25 an hour. After a 3 month period the > center allotted a 10 to 30 cent raise, which is a little insulting, to say > the least. >   So my question is, why is it that teachers are paid so little when they > are doing something so important?I loved my job but had to quit because > obviously I couldn’t cut it financially. I’d be interested in hearing > parents perspectives and input. Thanks!

Response:

> Shouldn’t it scare parents that their caretakers are paid 1 or 2 >dollars > more than the person who made their child’s happy meal? While I >worked > there I saw so many teachers who had the attitude "Im not going to >exert > myself for 7.25 an hour"  It’s the kids who miss out.

Yes! Thats exactly why I chose to stay at home with my children. At least that was one of the reasons. First, I am able to, my dh has a great job and we can afford it. Second, if I wanted to work and send my children to daycare I would virtually have to hand over my whole paycheck, if I wanted to get quality care which I do. I think anyone who works with our future leaders SHOULD get the highest salery. Take Care Chris

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Well,  in my opinion it is a situation of supply and demand.  Where I live, Atlanta, it is not easy to get a full time position as a teacher. This is one of the reasons I chose science and math as majors, more marketable.  Moreover, the people I attended college with were not too concerned with their wages or lack of.  We just wanted to teach.  Now keeping these bright young college graduates interested and satisfied with their income – I don’t know. I have also worked in day care – bad situation.  Low pay, high turnover, and several of the employees would come to work high.  It was more like a kennel.  I was too imature and inexperienced to handle it. I quit and became a private nanny making 8 to 10 an hour. I don’t know.  Its a tough issue.  

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You are one of the reasons why I am a stay at home mom!  Let me explain… I could only afford to pay a certain amount for childcare, otherwise it didn’t make financial sense to go back to work.  The amount I could afford to pay would not be worth the while of a person like you … early childhood education graduate that loves to care for children.  I felt that if a person like you took this job, it would only be for awhile, because it doesn’t pay enough.  Hey, I wouldn’t do it for $7.25 an hour, so how could I expect you to?   The amount that I *could* afford to pay would probably result in someone who couldn’t do anything else (illegal alien) or someone who wouldn’t stay at it long.   Childcare providers are paid what  employers (parents) can afford, not what they are worth.  The laws of supply and demand is operating here– because there are no regulations on who can be a childcare provider, the supply is always high.  If you won’t do it (for that price) someone else will.  So even though the demand is high, the supply always meets it. Ileen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I have a question that perhaps someone can assist me with.  As we all know >children are the most precious thing in the world to their parents.  So I >was wondering why it is that nanny postions, day care centers and many >preschools are notorious for expecting their employees to work long hours >for such low pay.  For a year after I graduated from college I worked at a >national day care chain  and was paid a few dollars above minimum wage. >Even with a collage degree and 2 years of experience working with small >children, I was still only making 7.25 an hour. After a 3 month period the >center allotted a 10 to 30 cent raise, which is a little insulting, to say >the least. >  So my question is, why is it that teachers are paid so little when they >are doing something so important?I loved my job but had to quit because >obviously I couldn’t cut it financially. I’d be interested in hearing >parents perspectives and input. Thanks!

Response:

>Well you knew how much it paid when you took the job.

That doesn’t mean the job shouldn’t pay more. > And your college education I am sure is a great  help in changing diapers, >wipping nosesand dishing out snacks.

There is a LOT more to childrearing than that!  Do you have any children of your own? >  Now on the other hand, I drive a school bus for about a dollar less >an hour than you get.  I have no benefits, no medical, no  insurance >and work in a very dangerous place ( the highways).   >I am responsible for the lives of up to 70 screaming  kids at least twice each day.  I >am expected to deliver them on time and safely to thier destinations >while  maintaining dicipline through a mirror and driving a 40ft long, >12 ton bus thru traffic comprised of 50% of idiots.  Most  who drive >with one hand on the wheel and are either drinking coffee  or talking >on a cellar phone with the other.  The other 50% of these drivers >think a school bus is nothing more than  a road block to thier >destination and must be passed at anycost.  Even running our stop >sign.

Your job *is* very important and certainly very stressful, but IMHO it does not compare to caring for children all day.  When I drive my daughter around, I am responsible for her physical life and my driving skills are of the utmost importance.  But the responsibility for her upbringing and emotional well-being is far more difficult. >Lady, I would trade places with you anyday except for one thing.  I >really love my job.

It doesn’t really sound like you love your job.  In fact, it seemed that you were ranting about it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->In spite of  all those idiot drivers and parents >who think I spend my time picking on thier kid or wonder why I can’t >stop in front of each kids house.

Response:

snip >   So my question is, why is it that teachers are paid so little when they > are doing something so important?I loved my job but had to quit because > obviously I couldn’t cut it financially. I’d be interested in hearing > parents perspectives and input. Thanks!

I’m very sympathetic, but also understand economics.  Whether parents want to work or not, they’re usually not getting rich out there.  In order for child care workers to get what they deserve, each set of parents would have to be paying about $7.00 an hour per kid (to cover everything).  Many parents don’t make that much "expendable" income.  Because what we do with our kids is so BASIC to everything, and so many seem to sacrifice, I guess many think that’s also the area that has to sacrifice financially (funny, huh?).  It sure doesn’t mean we don’t value our kids.  It just means we’re struggling, too. — Gina

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: I have a question that perhaps someone can assist me with.  As we all know : children are the most precious thing in the world to their parents.  So I : was wondering why it is that nanny postions, day care centers and many : preschools are notorious for expecting their employees to work long hours : for such low pay. I think it’s likely that many parents have no idea how little daycare providers are paid.  A friend of mine worked in a national chain daycare for a while, where she was paid minimum wage. It was a company policy that employees not reveal their wages to parents. They had an extremely high turnover rate, and because they were constantly trying to fill the position of someone who found a slightly higher paying job, they didn’t seem very choosy when it came to hiring.  My friend, for instance, was just out of college and needed to earn some money while she was looking for a "real job".  She had no experience in education or childcare, and she doesn’t even like kids. Nothing has made me more thankful that I can stay home with my son than this insider’s view of daycare. Pamela Gillaspie

Response:

writes: > why is it that teachers are paid so little when they >are doing something so important?

The best way to raise the pay rate would be to PAY MORE!  I pay $430 (U.S.) per week for a one-year-old and a four-year-old who are in school 7.5 hoursper day.  I pay the same weekly rate when the school is closed during holidays and when our spots at school are empty because we’re on a two-week vacation.  The school pays it’s staff full wages and benefits every day of the year, and higher wages than any other in my state.  Every room is staffed by at least one B.A. and all teachers have at least two years of early-childhood-education studies.   The tuition is more than 22% of my household income and it’s money well-spent.  This school provides much more than daycare.  They hold frequent parent-teacher conferences, they send home communications about the child and about the class curriculum plans.  They provide two field trips per year.  They host 8 lectures per year followed by a pot-luck dinner for families.  They provide parenting literature on any topic upon request.  They have a tight security system, although parents of enrolled children can come and go anywhere anytime.  They don’t mass kids of all different age groups together at the start and end of the day.  They have 4 separate playgrounds; for Infants, Toddler One, Toddler Two, and Pre-school.   The school also has no mortgage.  The grounds and building were endowed by a charitable party I wish I could name, but that would reveal the whereabouts of my children to the whole internet.  The school is a non-profit venture.  To make a fair profit for providing this level of service, a business owner would would need to charge  about $375 per week for infants and $250 per week for Pre-schoolers.  Naturally, this school has a long waiting list.  We were on it for over a year.  Our first kid had to go somewhere else for the first 6 months.  This school was worth the wait, and I would pay whatever they asked.   Levity is the dearth of gravity.  Brevity is the height of clarity.  

Response:

I believe you get what you pay for. This person is paying $43/child/day for what sounds like (and is obviously to him) an excellent facility. That is a LOT of money (about 50% of my household income). I’m not saying everyone can afford this kind of childcare, but I do believe many families could afford to pay more, and therefore demand more and get more. In my state, parents pay an average of about $1.75/hour for daycare center service. This is ridiculously low (and so is the $12,615/year the average daycare worker earns; no wonder turnover is estimated at 51 percent for non-profit daycares, and 67 in for-profits). And no wonder, at best, only 1 in 5 children in daycare is considered to be in a developmentally positive situation. My point is, childcare workers won’t make more money until parents realize what they are not getting for these rates. And maybe some parents just need to reprioritize the budgets. SM

Response:

writes: > why is it that teachers are paid so little when they >are doing something so important?

The price of labor is set by an efficient marketplace.  One way to raise the price would be to legislate some minimum level of qualification and then restrict the number of people who could take the qualifying test. The market would bid up the wage of the fewer eligible providers.  More people would make the economic decision to care for their own kids instead of seek employment outside the home.  Others would make the decision to use black market workers because no legitimate  worker was available or the price for legitimates was too high.   Another way to raise the price would be to set a minimum wage.  This would lure more providers to offer their services regardless of lack of qualifications.  Some highly qualified providers would go unemployed due to the surpluss of providers.   In an efficient market, the equilibrium price is the one where the number of people willing to pay the price is equal to the number of people willing to offer their services at that price.  Dabbling in non-free-market factors creates what economists call a "social cost" borne in part by the providers and in part by the customers.  Just who suffers how much depends on the slopes of the supply curve and the demand curve. Consult an economics book.   Levity is the dearth of gravity.  Brevity is the height of clarity.  

Response:

With all due respect, it has nothing to do with "loving your job."  I loved my class, and I miss them very much. I studied early childhood because I love kids and I wanted to work with them.  But this is reality. You can’t live on less than 300 dollars a week too well, if at all.  The point is teachers are in the classroom 8 hours or more a day and they deserve to make a decent sallary.  You can say that wiping noses and changing diapers is trivial all you want, the point is, it’s part of taking care of kids.  And if they can’t be with their moms and dads, you become one of their primary role models.   Shouldn’t it scare parents that their caretakers are paid 1 or 2 dollars more than the person who made their child’s happy meal? While I worked there I saw so many teachers who had the attitude "Im not going to exert myself for 7.25 an hour"  It’s the kids who miss out.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I have a question that perhaps someone can assist me with.  As we all know >children are the most precious thing in the world to their parents.  So I >was wondering why it is that nanny postions, day care centers and many >preschools are notorious for expecting their employees to work long hours >for such low pay.  For a year after I graduated from college I worked at a >national day care chain  and was paid a few dollars above minimum wage. >Even with a collage degree and 2 years of experience working with small >children, I was still only making 7.25 an hour. After a 3 month period the >center allotted a 10 to 30 cent raise, which is a little insulting, to say >the least. >  So my question is, why is it that teachers are paid so little when they >are doing something so important?I loved my job but had to quit because >obviously I couldn’t cut it financially. I’d be interested in hearing >parents perspectives and input. Thanks!

Well you knew how much it paid when you took the job.  And your college education I am sure is a great  help in changing diapers, wipping nosesand dishing out snacks.   Now on the other hand, I drive a school bus for about a dollar less an hour than you get.  I have no benefits, no medical, no  insurance and work in a very dangerous place ( the highways).  I am responsible for the lives of up to 70 screaming  kids at least twice each day.  I am expected to deliver them on time and safely to thier destinations while  maintaining dicipline through a mirror and driving a 40ft long, 12 ton bus thru traffic comprised of 50% of idiots.  Most  who drive with one hand on the wheel and are either drinking coffee  or talking on a cellar phone with the other.  The other 50% of these drivers think a school bus is nothing more than  a road block to thier destination and must be passed at anycost.  Even running our stop sign. Lady, I would trade places with you anyday except for one thing.  I really love my job.  In spite of  all those idiot drivers and parents who think I spend my time picking on thier kid or wonder why I can’t stop in front of each kids house.

Response:

> I have a question that perhaps someone can assist me with.  As we all know > children are the most precious thing in the world to their parents.  So I > was wondering why it is that nanny postions, day care centers and many > preschools are notorious for expecting their employees to work long hours > for such low pay.  For a year after I graduated from college I worked at a > national day care chain  and was paid a few dollars above minimum wage. > Even with a collage degree and 2 years of experience working with small > children, I was still only making 7.25 an hour. After a 3 month period the > center allotted a 10 to 30 cent raise, which is a little insulting, to say > the least. >   So my question is, why is it that teachers are paid so little when they > are doing something so important?I loved my job but had to quit because > obviously I couldn’t cut it financially. I’d be interested in hearing > parents perspectives and input. Thanks!

Good questions.  The first answer is because as a society we undervalue the importance of raising children.  I’m not going to get into this in depth because it would spark an endless flamefest over the desirability of funding child care versus missiles, $500 toilet seats, or your favorite boondoggle.  However it is a fact, it seems to me, that we undervalue raising children.  I’ll leave it at that. The second answer, as a former board member in a child care center who fought to raise salaries, is that somewhere along the line every organization has a bean counter, and this person almost invariably has the final say.  So even if parents are willing to pay more, it takes a lot of fighting to get more spent on salaries. The third answer has to do with economic arguments, some of which I understand and others I don’t.  But the bottom line is that working parents can only afford to spend so much, and things like insurance, rent, utilities and whatnot always take priority over salaries.   So when all is said and done, something like half of what parents pay goes toward the people who are caring for their children. I wish I could change any one of these three things.  In our case, we fought like Hell to get a living wage for our providers, we finally got it, and the jerk bean counter hired, yes, an assistant jerk bean counter with the money, and divided the rest among several part time employees, rather than hire one caring full time provider to do the job. So it goes… Best wishes, -Troy

Response:

I have a question that perhaps someone can assist me with.  As we all know children are the most precious thing in the world to their parents.  So I was wondering why it is that nanny postions, day care centers and many preschools are notorious for expecting their employees to work long hours for such low pay.  For a year after I graduated from college I worked at a national day care chain  and was paid a few dollars above minimum wage. Even with a collage degree and 2 years of experience working with small children, I was still only making 7.25 an hour. After a 3 month period the center allotted a 10 to 30 cent raise, which is a little insulting, to say the least.   So my question is, why is it that teachers are paid so little when they are doing something so important?I loved my job but had to quit because obviously I couldn’t cut it financially. I’d be interested in hearing parents perspectives and input. Thanks!

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