Question:
Yea, I know. Just sometimes her "advice" is so preposterous!! Can’t help but say something. There might be someone out there who doesn’t know she’s just a "troll" and take her seriously! Lisa Mom to Kelsey (2) — Visit my website… http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Bluffs/9283/
Response:
>> Don’t try and catch her lying, catch her being good. >All of what Brigham said was wonderful advice! I just snipped to save >space.
*****I’m only snipping to save space, also =) >I agree wholeheartedly that you need to focus on the good things she is >doing. The grounding and other punative measures are not working. We have >run into this a lot with our 7 year old daughter. Whenever we have switched >gears and started reinforcing the positive stuff, we have seen tremendous >improvement!
*****I agree…and this is something we have always done with her, to focus on her good points, when she brings home a 100% on a test, on keeping her room neat without being told, when she offers to do something, or how precious she is to me/us when she hand makes us a card telling me she loves me. I enjoy leaving little notes in with her lunch that she will find at school, or drawing a big heart on some paper that says, "I LOVE YOU, AUDREY!!", etc….. >Some other simple rewards you might want to try. Let her choose what is for >dinner when she can go the whole day without lieing to you. Let her watch a >favorite video before bedtime. Another good one for my daugher—paint her >fingernails her favorite color. All easy cheap stuff to do. Even if it >does mean that all you have for dinner is Mac & cheese. :-}
*****We spend a lot of quality of time together. Every other night, she get’s to pick out what she would like for dinner (the other daughter picks the next night). She likes to draw (I draw stick men), so I ask her to teach me how to draw. We colour together, etc…I spend as much quality of time with her as I possibly can. I even make sure I’m not on this computer, ignoring her when she’s home. I’m on here when she’s at school or in bed…. >Try sitting her down and explaining to her that you understand she is going >through a rough time. That you love her very much and you want to help her. >But that if she lies to you, you won’t know when she is telling the truth >and you need to know when something is wrong and be able to believe her >about it.
*****I have done this with her. She will be fine for a week or two, then it just starts all over again. It’s killing me and my DH and we honestly don’t know what to do. > Remind her too that she will get a reward whenever she can go a >day without lieing to you. Focus on one thing at a time. When she can go a >week without lieing to you, then you can tack on something else. Tell her >"Wow! You have gone an entire week without one single lie! I am so very >proud of you for doing that! But you did ____ a couple of times. Now if you >can go tomorrow without lieing to me you can ____ (fill in reward) and if >you can go without doing ___then you get a second reward."
*****I’m not to sure I agree with this, or maybe I’m reading this the wrong way. Do you mean she should be rewarded for *not* lying? Lying is wrong, so she shouldn’t be doing it in the first place. How do you reward someone who is doing something they should be doing in the first place? (Now you can *really* tell I have never had children of my own <S>) >A very dear friend of mine and her hubby have custody of her step daughter. >The mother in that situation is less than wonderful. She causes all kinds >of trouble. It makes me wonder what the mother of your step daughter is >like or if she is in the picture at all. Could that be part of the problem?
*****Her biomother isn’t in the picture at all. She lives in another country. She shunned my stepdaughter when she was a toddler, and honestly, she doesn’t *really* have any memory of her biomother because she was too young when my DH got custody of both girls and came back to the USA. >I think if you can find a professional to talk to the whole family and your >step-daughter individually, that would be a wonderful idea. My friend did >that very thing and it has helped tremendously. It never hurts to have >someone else there looking in from the outside.
*****We believe our last and only option is family councelling, and I have already called for an appointment. >Keep your chin up! >Sharon
Thanks again, everyone =) Lynda
Response:
: :Boy Elaine, you have a pissy attitude. You responded to almost everyone’s :comments and suggestions, but not once did you offer the original person any :suggstions or advice. Why bother write if you only offer rudeness and :sarcasm. : :Get a life – and a reason to live it. : : She is a blithering idiot, and she does not have any children so she cannot write from experience, which is what parents need here. Norma
Response:
Foster care??? You’ve got to be kidding right??? She already feels abandoned by her bio-mom and you want them to stick her in foster care where she will think that her dad and stepmom don’t want her too???!! This makes NO SENSE!!! Once again Elaine you have proven that you have no clue about parenting! This child needs positive reinforcement and lots of help from a counselor to figure out what the underlying cause is. Lisa Mom to Kelsey (2) — Visit my website… http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Bluffs/9283/
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Remind her too that she will get a reward whenever she can go a >day without lieing to you. Focus on one thing at a time. When she can go a >week without lieing to you, then you can tack on something else. Tell her >"Wow! You have gone an entire week without one single lie! I am so very >proud of you for doing that! But you did ____ a couple of times. Now if you >can go tomorrow without lieing to me you can ____ (fill in reward) and if >you can go without doing ___then you get a second reward." >*****I’m not to sure I agree with this, or maybe I’m reading this the >wrong way. Do you mean she should be rewarded for *not* lying? Lying >is wrong, so she shouldn’t be doing it in the first place. How do you >reward someone who is doing something they should be doing in the >first place? (Now you can *really* tell I have never had children of >my own <S>)
Yes, I did mean that she should be rewarded when she doesn’t lie. Here’s the idea. We all know lying is wrong. She knows lying is wrong too. I am sure you have told her that a lot recently! :-} But she is still doing it anyway. Kids are *always* doing things they shouldn’t do in the first place. That’s the nature of being a kid. The goal of the parent is to teach them not to do things they shouldn’t and to overcome that urge to do things they shouldn’t. The thing with rewarding her good behavior (in this case not lying to you) is that pretty soon it will sink in with her that she gets the extra fun stuff when she is good but not when she is not good. Positive reinforcement. You said that despite groundings and revocation of privileges she was continuing to tell lies. So obviously that isn’t working. You might give this other way a shot. Who knows it might just work. Similar things have worked with my two kids for everything from telling lies to hitting to throwing fits. I understand that the first instinct is to punish bad behavior, and that is sometimes the best way to handle things, but it isn’t working this time. I understand too that the first instinct is to just expect good behavior to happen by itself and for the child to accept good behavior as its own reward. That doesn’t always click with kids. I hope that clears it up for you. If not, let me know what is still confusing and I will try again. Good luck! Sharon
Response:
>I agree, but I think good self-esteem comes from meeting challenges >successfully (success being interpreted as not giving up), not from being >told they are doing terrific if they aren’t.
The idea is to build on strengths, not weaknesses. The parents of this child are tearing her down and weakening her.
Response:
> >This is an extremely difficult situation. >Before going to counseling though, > It is very wrong to throw this thing in the child’s lap OR the stepmother’s > lap. Anything that the stepmother does without the supervision of a good > family counselor is a bad idea. > The woman wants peace in her home, and the normal respect due to the head > of the household. Everything she has done up to this point has taken her > away from that goal.
A clear explanation of expectations never hurt anyone (counselor or no). -Alexis
Response:
:
:> :>> Anything that the stepmother does without the supervision of a good :>>family counselor is a bad idea. :> :>I think I misunderstood. Do you mean that she should do nothing whatsoever :in :>the form of discipline or encouragement without consulting a counselor :first? : : : Newsgroups are nice for a chat, and to pick up a few ideas to try out in :daily life. Somtimes, however, a serious case will come up that is beyond :the scope of a newsgroup. This little girl is in a lot of trouble. : It would probably make more sense to try to get her into foster care than :for an overwhelmed father and step mother to try to wing it with her all :alone. : :>I am sure there are things she could try that may work before she has to :spend :>money on a counselor. : : Sorry, but they have gone past the point of fretting about the family :psychologist’s fee. This case is an emergency. : : : If they don’t work, fine, it’s counselling time. But :>let’s remember here that just because she is a step parent does not mean :she :>has no clue what she’s doing and immediately needs to consult a :proffesional :>because she’s unable to handle the task of raising a child. : : : Knowing when to call in the cavalry is a sign of strenth. Not weakness. : : : Elaine, why are you such a total idiot?! You would advocate tearing this girl away from her family, put in foster care (?!) and sent to a psychologist, all because she is acting up a bit for attention? You are unbelievable. Taking a child away from her parents is the worst possible thing that can happen to a child, unless they are in an abuse case. She is lying. SO WHAT. That is not an abuse situation, not a capital crime. She needs some strong parenting techniques applied, and a strict moral code taught. She does not need some BUSYBODY NITWIT like you telling her she should be in the foster care system out of the custody of her parents! Norma
Response:
Boy Elaine, you have a pissy attitude. You responded to almost everyone’s comments and suggestions, but not once did you offer the original person any suggstions or advice. Why bother write if you only offer rudeness and sarcasm. Get a life – and a reason to live it.
Response:
> > Anything that the stepmother does without the supervision of a good >family counselor is a bad idea. > I think I misunderstood. Do you mean that she should do nothing whatsoever in > the form of discipline or encouragement without consulting a counselor first?
Sam, don’t discourage Elaine, did you read her solution to cutting an autistic boy’s hair? This is no big deal. Leslie
Response:
> Anything that the stepmother does without the supervision of a good >family counselor is a bad idea. >I think I misunderstood. Do you mean that she should do nothing whatsoever in >the form of discipline or encouragement without consulting a counselor
first? Newsgroups are nice for a chat, and to pick up a few ideas to try out in daily life. Somtimes, however, a serious case will come up that is beyond the scope of a newsgroup. This little girl is in a lot of trouble. It would probably make more sense to try to get her into foster care than for an overwhelmed father and step mother to try to wing it with her all alone. >I am sure there are things she could try that may work before she has to spend >money on a counselor.
Sorry, but they have gone past the point of fretting about the family psychologist’s fee. This case is an emergency. If they don’t work, fine, it’s counselling time. But >let’s remember here that just because she is a step parent does not mean she >has no clue what she’s doing and immediately needs to consult a proffesional >because she’s unable to handle the task of raising a child.
Knowing when to call in the cavalry is a sign of strenth. Not weakness.
Response:
> Anything that the stepmother does without the supervision of a good >family counselor is a bad idea.
I think I misunderstood. Do you mean that she should do nothing whatsoever in the form of discipline or encouragement without consulting a counselor first? I am sure there are things she could try that may work before she has to spend money on a counselor. If they don’t work, fine, it’s counselling time. But let’s remember here that just because she is a step parent does not mean she has no clue what she’s doing and immediately needs to consult a proffesional because she’s unable to handle the task of raising a child. JMHO Sam (White Storm Cloud) "Who knows where thoughts come from – they just appear." – Lucas, Empire Records
Response:
>Hello everyone — my name is Lynda and I am new to this NG. I have >been lurking on here for a couple of weeks now, reading the different >posts and getting a lot out of them. This is my first post to this NG. >I have 2 step-daughters. We are having SERIOUS problems with our 8 yo >daughter. The constant lying has been unbelievable. She was grounded >all last week, and as each day goes on, she does something else, so we >add another day onto her grounding. She is now grounded until this >coming Sunday night.
In re-reading your message, it occurs to me that she might be doing naughty things in order to get grounded. If she’s grounded, at least for that time, she can be certain that she will be under your roof. How many times was she moved around before she came to live with you? To be "grounded" sounds like not such a bad thing if she has led a life of being shuffled around, and has felt like a drifter. It’s possible that "being grounded" is the most security that she has ever had. YOU might think of "grounding" as some sort of horrid punishment. An 8 year old who lost her mommy might find it to be an improvement.
Response:
>A clear explanation of expectations never hurt anyone (counselor or no).
I really feel for this child. She doesn’t trust anyone. Her life must really suck. It’s unlikely that the words of any adult hold meaning for her. She must really feel unloved to think that the only way she can fulfill her personal needs is by cheating, lying and stealing. She is also likely to be very scared and very angry. Rightfully so.
Response:
Linda, that is EXCELLENT advice! It is good advice for children who are running into a problem, as well as, children who are doing great. I fully agree children must have a good self esteem. If we must label them, the labels should be of their good traits. When the kids sit back and look at their own selves, they should have lots of good things to say about themselves. That positive self-image will help them to want to continue good behaviors. But if we tell them they are liars, why should they not lie? After all, that’s what liars do. Each child should see everything they do that is good. They should know others see it too. When they believe they are good people, it will help them to use good behavior. It won’t "fix" things overnight, but it will go a long way in helping. Take Care! Vicki Surratt Proud Mom of Kathy (just turned 6) and Jenny (9)! 
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > YIKES! > Well, as a parent and a teacher my approach would be to focus on every > single GOOD deed or action that she does. Maybe for a whole day ignore ALL > her lies, or just laugh good naturedly and say "Now is that real?" or "Come > on silly, do you expect me to buy that:)" The key is that she wants > attention and she has found a way to get it. Kids want attention and they > will take whatever kind they can get – positive or negative. > One of the troubles you may encounter with the track you are on is that > your daughter may begin to label herself as a "liar" and she will continue > to live up to that. Pygmalian effect, I think it is called. > We’ve been using a form of behavior modification with my son to improve > his attitude. We have magnets on the fridge that we use to keep track of > the points. Every, and I mean every, time he does something we like he gets > a point. For the first few days we were on top of every good and positive > thing he did so he was constantly getting the reward. (They should earn it > at least once a day to be effective.) You might want to have her earn 10 > points, or 8 since she is eight. > Keep the reward simple and affordable -DON"T do a trip to disney land, > or even to an ice cream store. It should be in the house and immediate upon > getting the last point. Sometimes we let him choose, " Do you want two > chocolate valentines or two cookies?" It’s got to be something they want > and like. It could be: 10 minutes on the computer, special time with you > (working on a photo album or scrap book…), favorite snack, a chance to > bake ( my son loves to make mini muffins)…whatever would make her try to > earn points. > They can loose points too, but only one at a time. It can’t be used as > a tool against them. The key is to help restore their self esteem so they > can use their energy in a positive way. You’ve got to see every good thing > no matter how minor it may seem!! (friendly smile, getting right to work on > homework, putting her back pack on the table, opening it for you to check, > for doing something the first time you ask her…) Let her know you are > watching for the good or nice things she does. Be generous with giving the > points and stingy when taking them away. > Don’t try and catch her lying, catch her being good. When she does lie > and you both know it, just walk over to the fridge (where she can see) and > tell her you are taking off a point. You don’t need to explain why, that > will just give her attention to the lie. Remind her not to worry, that when > she behaves kindly and honestly she will earn that point back. My son will > break into tears when he loses one and I hug him (before he can run over and > give it back to himself), and tell him not to worry. Sometimes I will > immediately give him a task and tell him he can have the point back if he > has a happy attitude while doing it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it > doesn’t. > Grounding, especially when she has days ahead of her may make her feel > like she is spinning out of control so why try. > Spanking won’t help either, even if it is purely for shock value. It > still gives her attention for the lie. > Counselling is a good idea. I’m all for getting professional advice in > tough situations. It might also help bring out any root cause for her > behavior. > Good luck. I’m sure you’ll get lots of good ideas here. > Linda
Response:
>This is an extremely difficult situation. >Before going to counseling though,
It is very wrong to throw this thing in the child’s lap OR the stepmother’s lap. Anything that the stepmother does without the supervision of a good family counselor is a bad idea. The woman wants peace in her home, and the normal respect due to the head of the household. Everything she has done up to this point has taken her away from that goal.
Response:
>Linda, that is EXCELLENT advice! It is good advice for children who are >running into a problem, as well as, children who are doing great. >I fully agree children must have a good self esteem. If we must label >them, the labels should be of their good traits. When the kids sit back >and look at their own selves, they should have lots of good things to >say about themselves. That positive self-image will help them to want >to continue good behaviors. But if we tell them they are liars, why >should they not lie? After all, that’s what liars do.
I agree, but I think good self-esteem comes from meeting challenges successfully (success being interpreted as not giving up), not from being told they are doing terrific if they aren’t. >Each child should see everything they do that is good. They should know >others see it too. When they believe they are good people, it will help >them to use good behavior. It won’t "fix" things overnight, but it will >go a long way in helping.
I don’t know about this, Vicki. In theory, it sounds nice, but I think praising a child who just shoplifted, for example, does not set the right tone. Frankly, I think we are too concerned about giving our children self-esteem and not concerned enough about teaching them right and wrong. Just my opinion, of course. Kathleen "If sense were common, more people would have it." — Me **Spam Trap** Accentuate the Positive to send e-mail.
Response:
>Hello everyone — my name is Lynda and I am new to this NG. I have >been lurking on here for a couple of weeks now, reading the different >posts and getting a lot out of them. This is my first post to this NG. >I have 2 step-daughters. We are having SERIOUS problems with our 8 yo >daughter.
It is more accurate to say that your 8 yr. old step daughter is having serious emotional problems. This child has obviously been through a lot and is suffering the effects of a broken home. Please stop punishing your step daughter. Your punishments are never going to get you the desired results. Get some family therapy for hints and support in dealing with your step children. The constant lying has been unbelievable. She was grounded – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->all last week, and as each day goes on, she does something else, so we >add another day onto her grounding. She is now grounded until this >coming Sunday night. >She lies, cheats, steals, and is *very* sneeky just to name a few. >Just yesterday and today alone, she has been grounded for another 4 >days. >She took $5.00 out of my wallet saying she saved her allowance (kind >of hard when she gets 80 cents a week, all coins, but shows up with a >$5 dollar bill. She finally admitted she took it from my purse. She >was grounded for that. Today alone, we added 3 more days to her >grounding. First, when she got home from school, I checked her bookbag >(which I do everyday) to see what homework she has. I went over it >with her, but about 10 minutes later she came back with her spelling >book, and tried to put it into her bookbag, telling me she had >finished the spelling. Of course, with all of these lies going on, we >can’t trust her, so I checked her spelling. She didn’t do a thing! She >was grounded 1 more day. After dinner, she was finishing her homework >and brought me her spelling text book. When I looked at the page she >was working on, there was scribbled pen ALL over the page. I asked her >what she did….of course she said, "I didn’t do anything. The page >was like this when I got the book." LIE…I looked at this page myself >before she started her homework, and there was NO scribbling on the >page. She was grounded another day, and my husband spanked her bottom. >She was sent to bed at 7:00pm tonight. Around 8:30pm, I walked past >her bedroom to get another tea and noticed the light on in her >bedroom. She was SUPPOSED to be in bed and sleeping, NOT reading! >Because she lied to me *3* times just today, I grounded her for >another 3 days. >We have tried everything under the sun you can think of. Grounding, >taking things away she likes, no tv, going to bed early, no snacks, >must stay in her room and do nothing but read, and if we can find a >chore for her to do, then she does it….it STILL doesn’t work. >Everyday there is another lie. >We feel our last resort is councelling, and this is where we’re >headed. >Does anyone have advise on how you would handle this situation? >Thank you in advance, >Lynda
Response:
Hello everyone — my name is Lynda and I am new to this NG. I have been lurking on here for a couple of weeks now, reading the different posts and getting a lot out of them. This is my first post to this NG. I have 2 step-daughters. We are having SERIOUS problems with our 8 yo daughter. The constant lying has been unbelievable. She was grounded all last week, and as each day goes on, she does something else, so we add another day onto her grounding. She is now grounded until this coming Sunday night. She lies, cheats, steals, and is *very* sneeky just to name a few. Just yesterday and today alone, she has been grounded for another 4 days. She took $5.00 out of my wallet saying she saved her allowance (kind of hard when she gets 80 cents a week, all coins, but shows up with a $5 dollar bill. She finally admitted she took it from my purse. She was grounded for that. Today alone, we added 3 more days to her grounding. First, when she got home from school, I checked her bookbag (which I do everyday) to see what homework she has. I went over it with her, but about 10 minutes later she came back with her spelling book, and tried to put it into her bookbag, telling me she had finished the spelling. Of course, with all of these lies going on, we can’t trust her, so I checked her spelling. She didn’t do a thing! She was grounded 1 more day. After dinner, she was finishing her homework and brought me her spelling text book. When I looked at the page she was working on, there was scribbled pen ALL over the page. I asked her what she did….of course she said, "I didn’t do anything. The page was like this when I got the book." LIE…I looked at this page myself before she started her homework, and there was NO scribbling on the page. She was grounded another day, and my husband spanked her bottom. She was sent to bed at 7:00pm tonight. Around 8:30pm, I walked past her bedroom to get another tea and noticed the light on in her bedroom. She was SUPPOSED to be in bed and sleeping, NOT reading! Because she lied to me *3* times just today, I grounded her for another 3 days. We have tried everything under the sun you can think of. Grounding, taking things away she likes, no tv, going to bed early, no snacks, must stay in her room and do nothing but read, and if we can find a chore for her to do, then she does it….it STILL doesn’t work. Everyday there is another lie. We feel our last resort is councelling, and this is where we’re headed. Does anyone have advise on how you would handle this situation? Thank you in advance, Lynda
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello everyone — my name is Lynda and I am new to this NG. I have > been lurking on here for a couple of weeks now, reading the different > posts and getting a lot out of them. This is my first post to this NG. > I have 2 step-daughters. We are having SERIOUS problems with our 8 yo > daughter. The constant lying has been unbelievable. She was grounded > all last week, and as each day goes on, she does something else, so we > add another day onto her grounding. She is now grounded until this > coming Sunday night. > She lies, cheats, steals, and is *very* sneeky just to name a few. > Just yesterday and today alone, she has been grounded for another 4 > days. > She took $5.00 out of my wallet saying she saved her allowance (kind > of hard when she gets 80 cents a week, all coins, but shows up with a > $5 dollar bill. She finally admitted she took it from my purse. She > was grounded for that. Today alone, we added 3 more days to her > grounding. First, when she got home from school, I checked her bookbag > (which I do everyday) to see what homework she has. I went over it > with her, but about 10 minutes later she came back with her spelling > book, and tried to put it into her bookbag, telling me she had > finished the spelling. Of course, with all of these lies going on, we > can’t trust her, so I checked her spelling. She didn’t do a thing! She > was grounded 1 more day. After dinner, she was finishing her homework > and brought me her spelling text book. When I looked at the page she > was working on, there was scribbled pen ALL over the page. I asked her > what she did….of course she said, "I didn’t do anything. The page > was like this when I got the book." LIE…I looked at this page myself > before she started her homework, and there was NO scribbling on the > page. She was grounded another day, and my husband spanked her bottom. > She was sent to bed at 7:00pm tonight. Around 8:30pm, I walked past > her bedroom to get another tea and noticed the light on in her > bedroom. She was SUPPOSED to be in bed and sleeping, NOT reading! > Because she lied to me *3* times just today, I grounded her for > another 3 days. > We have tried everything under the sun you can think of. Grounding, > taking things away she likes, no tv, going to bed early, no snacks, > must stay in her room and do nothing but read, and if we can find a > chore for her to do, then she does it….it STILL doesn’t work. > Everyday there is another lie. > We feel our last resort is councelling, and this is where we’re > headed. > Does anyone have advise on how you would handle this situation? > Thank you in advance, > Lynda
Looks like she’s looking for attention. Of course I’m not an expert, but that what it looks like to me. Kids often feel very deep intense feeling and can’t express them in the same manner than an adult does. She may not be able to tell you or your husband that she is lacks attention. You’ve tried many punishments but have you tried befriending her? What role does her father play in her life? If you are her primary care giver it can be really hard on the both of you. Karla
Response:
> Don’t try and catch her lying, catch her being good.
All of what Brigham said was wonderful advice! I just snipped to save space. I agree wholeheartedly that you need to focus on the good things she is doing. The grounding and other punative measures are not working. We have run into this a lot with our 7 year old daughter. Whenever we have switched gears and started reinforcing the positive stuff, we have seen tremendous improvement! Some other simple rewards you might want to try. Let her choose what is for dinner when she can go the whole day without lieing to you. Let her watch a favorite video before bedtime. Another good one for my daugher—paint her fingernails her favorite color. All easy cheap stuff to do. Even if it does mean that all you have for dinner is Mac & cheese. :-} Try sitting her down and explaining to her that you understand she is going through a rough time. That you love her very much and you want to help her. But that if she lies to you, you won’t know when she is telling the truth and you need to know when something is wrong and be able to believe her about it. Remind her too that she will get a reward whenever she can go a day without lieing to you. Focus on one thing at a time. When she can go a week without lieing to you, then you can tack on something else. Tell her "Wow! You have gone an entire week without one single lie! I am so very proud of you for doing that! But you did ____ a couple of times. Now if you can go tomorrow without lieing to me you can ____ (fill in reward) and if you can go without doing ___then you get a second reward." A very dear friend of mine and her hubby have custody of her step daughter. The mother in that situation is less than wonderful. She causes all kinds of trouble. It makes me wonder what the mother of your step daughter is like or if she is in the picture at all. Could that be part of the problem? I think if you can find a professional to talk to the whole family and your step-daughter individually, that would be a wonderful idea. My friend did that very thing and it has helped tremendously. It never hurts to have someone else there looking in from the outside. Keep your chin up! Sharon
Response:
>The constant lying has been unbelievable.
Hmm . .. I’ve gone through a stage of that with my seven year old. I’ve done three things, and the situation has improved: 1. I don’t put him in a situation where it is easy to lie – If I know he did something, I ask him why he did it, not if he did it. Kids tend to take the easy way out. 2. I do special favors for kids who don’t lie to me. IE, if you lie to me, don’t expect a ride to a friend’s house, the library, the zoo, etc. When I hear the inevidible (sp?) complaint, my response is, that is so sad, I’m sorry, I give rides (dessert, make cookies, do favors) to/for children who are truthful towards me. 3. When he tells me the truth, even about doing something bad (like hitting a child), I spend extra time telling him how proud I am that he’s telling the truth, and ho lucky I am to have a truthful boy. After about six months of using these, we’ve had a dramatic improvement. It’s slow, but it has worked for me. Isa "Motherhood is not for wimps."
Response:
This is an extremely difficult situation. Before going to counseling though, I would try one thing. I would sit down with her and explain exactly how her lying affects you. Ask her how she would feel if she was lied to on a regular basis. Explain to her why *you* don’t tell lies. Tell her the story of the little boy who cried wolf. Talk about the boy and the people in the town, ask her what he could have done differently, ask her how she thinks the people of the town feel about the boy etc. I might even go so far as to have ‘lying day’ where everyone tells lies. I’d talk about it in advance and maybe make a ‘lying day’ sign so that she knows exactly what’s going on. I might steal stuff from her room and deny that I did it. I might promise to take her to the park and then lie and say that I never said that. If she caught me in a lie and got angry about it, I’d say, "whoops, you’re right, I lied. oh well, it doesn’t bother you, does it?" Don’t spank or ground for this offense, she’ll probably just get more secretive and defensive (gee, she doesn’t want to get spanked or grounded again). She’s 8 years old, appeal to her sense of reason and fair play. Good luck!! -Alexis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello everyone — my name is Lynda and I am new to this NG. I have > been lurking on here for a couple of weeks now, reading the different > posts and getting a lot out of them. This is my first post to this NG. > I have 2 step-daughters. We are having SERIOUS problems with our 8 yo > daughter. The constant lying has been unbelievable. She was grounded > all last week, and as each day goes on, she does something else, so we > add another day onto her grounding. She is now grounded until this > coming Sunday night. > She lies, cheats, steals, and is *very* sneeky just to name a few. > Just yesterday and today alone, she has been grounded for another 4 > days. > She took $5.00 out of my wallet saying she saved her allowance (kind > of hard when she gets 80 cents a week, all coins, but shows up with a > $5 dollar bill. She finally admitted she took it from my purse. She > was grounded for that. Today alone, we added 3 more days to her > grounding. First, when she got home from school, I checked her bookbag > (which I do everyday) to see what homework she has. I went over it > with her, but about 10 minutes later she came back with her spelling > book, and tried to put it into her bookbag, telling me she had > finished the spelling. Of course, with all of these lies going on, we > can’t trust her, so I checked her spelling. She didn’t do a thing! She > was grounded 1 more day. After dinner, she was finishing her homework > and brought me her spelling text book. When I looked at the page she > was working on, there was scribbled pen ALL over the page. I asked her > what she did….of course she said, "I didn’t do anything. The page > was like this when I got the book." LIE…I looked at this page myself > before she started her homework, and there was NO scribbling on the > page. She was grounded another day, and my husband spanked her bottom. > She was sent to bed at 7:00pm tonight. Around 8:30pm, I walked past > her bedroom to get another tea and noticed the light on in her > bedroom. She was SUPPOSED to be in bed and sleeping, NOT reading! > Because she lied to me *3* times just today, I grounded her for > another 3 days. > We have tried everything under the sun you can think of. Grounding, > taking things away she likes, no tv, going to bed early, no snacks, > must stay in her room and do nothing but read, and if we can find a > chore for her to do, then she does it….it STILL doesn’t work. > Everyday there is another lie. > We feel our last resort is councelling, and this is where we’re > headed. > Does anyone have advise on how you would handle this situation? > Thank you in advance, > Lynda
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>… I have 2 step-daughters. We are having SERIOUS problems with our 8 yo >daughter. The constant lying has been unbelievable. She was grounded >all last week, and as each day goes on, she does something else, so we >add another day onto her grounding. She is now grounded until this >coming Sunday night. >She lies, cheats, steals, and is *very* sneeky just to name a few. >Just yesterday and today alone, she has been grounded for another 4 >days. …
We have 4 adopted children, and have worked through most of the things that are in the text books for "loss, grieving, denial, and bonding", and also many of the things that exist under the topic of "attachment" problems. It turns out that the behavior you describe fits very closely with one we still have and has been called lots of things, including a "disease". I don’t have a success story or anything that works quickly and permanently. The main thing is to set up some type of direct logical consequences and not expect any instant result. In a recent interview with one of our family councilors it was pointed out that the attachment disorder triggers urges to do things that will keep people from getting too close [stealing $5 and lying to your face certainly has that effect]. You can approach the bonding by working together on projects and hugging whenever possible; this may help remove the specific need to keep that distance from you. Ultimately the child either learns to control these impulses or will end up visiting the courts as a teen or adult. You have to work together with her father (I assume the step- reference means you all live together), emphasising the same values and need to control the impulse. If you can find someone in your area that works with families made up of "mixed" members through adoption, divorce, or re-marriage, then you may be able to get specific help and a good set of guidance. Our local DSS group knows the people but can also cause more problems than they solve by giving incomplete or inaccurate information. Father of 4, — hope you get the family love and respect we have, even if you never get to be a "perfect" family.
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YIKES! Well, as a parent and a teacher my approach would be to focus on every single GOOD deed or action that she does. Maybe for a whole day ignore ALL her lies, or just laugh good naturedly and say "Now is that real?" or "Come on silly, do you expect me to buy that:)" The key is that she wants attention and she has found a way to get it. Kids want attention and they will take whatever kind they can get – positive or negative. One of the troubles you may encounter with the track you are on is that your daughter may begin to label herself as a "liar" and she will continue to live up to that. Pygmalian effect, I think it is called. We’ve been using a form of behavior modification with my son to improve his attitude. We have magnets on the fridge that we use to keep track of the points. Every, and I mean every, time he does something we like he gets a point. For the first few days we were on top of every good and positive thing he did so he was constantly getting the reward. (They should earn it at least once a day to be effective.) You might want to have her earn 10 points, or 8 since she is eight. Keep the reward simple and affordable -DON"T do a trip to disney land, or even to an ice cream store. It should be in the house and immediate upon getting the last point. Sometimes we let him choose, " Do you want two chocolate valentines or two cookies?" It’s got to be something they want and like. It could be: 10 minutes on the computer, special time with you (working on a photo album or scrap book…), favorite snack, a chance to bake ( my son loves to make mini muffins)…whatever would make her try to earn points. They can loose points too, but only one at a time. It can’t be used as a tool against them. The key is to help restore their self esteem so they can use their energy in a positive way. You’ve got to see every good thing no matter how minor it may seem!! (friendly smile, getting right to work on homework, putting her back pack on the table, opening it for you to check, for doing something the first time you ask her…) Let her know you are watching for the good or nice things she does. Be generous with giving the points and stingy when taking them away. Don’t try and catch her lying, catch her being good. When she does lie and you both know it, just walk over to the fridge (where she can see) and tell her you are taking off a point. You don’t need to explain why, that will just give her attention to the lie. Remind her not to worry, that when she behaves kindly and honestly she will earn that point back. My son will break into tears when he loses one and I hug him (before he can run over and give it back to himself), and tell him not to worry. Sometimes I will immediately give him a task and tell him he can have the point back if he has a happy attitude while doing it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. Grounding, especially when she has days ahead of her may make her feel like she is spinning out of control so why try. Spanking won’t help either, even if it is purely for shock value. It still gives her attention for the lie. Counselling is a good idea. I’m all for getting professional advice in tough situations. It might also help bring out any root cause for her behavior. Good luck. I’m sure you’ll get lots of good ideas here. Linda
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