Question:
My husband, my brother, my cousin, my father, my brothers-in-law, my gay friends — all have babysat or take part in my child’s growth, without my presence. Would I ever exclude a male from watching my son? No.
Response:
>>I think that would depend on your reasonings. If you said that you >would not be comfortable trusting a woman to be, say, a quarterback, >then I would not cry foul. >Why would a woman make a poor quarterback ? Granted, her presence on >the field, amid a throng of abnormally large men, would be attention- >grabbing and she would definitely play the game differently, but it >would be unwise to disqualify her from the sport solely because of her >physical constitution or sex.
I disagree…football is much more a sport of strength than most sports…and a woman just does not have the physical size to be an effective football player. (but this is getting way off the parenting part of this newsgroup, is it not?) >Accountant? yeah…I probably would because knowledge of an academic >subject has never been shown to be more prevelent in one gender over >the other. Meaning…if you chose a man because of physical strength >for a job (or even instinct…like a bodyguard), I’d not have a >problem. >The notion that men are endowed with superior math skills has been >"researched," "proven," and, for many years, accepted by the mainstream >human-development community (the same community which theorized that >girls have superior language ability). Educational theory in the 1990’s >holds that girls, with extra motivation and individual attention, can >attain mathematical competence equal to boys (thus, the recent >appearance of all-girl math classes in public schools).
If this is true (and I’ve not readthe studies), the I’d say that most men would be better accountants than women.. *snip* >competence. Thus, what has been perceived as a biological shortcoming >has been revealed as a stereotypical construct. Do you agree ?
Absolutely…are you implying that women and men are equal in strength and physical abilities, also? > Do you >believe that biological/chemical differences between male brains and >female brains allow for some differences where intellectual ability and >thought-processes are concerned (in which case, you must agree that in >certain mental endeavors, boys are innately superior to girls and vice >versa) ?
Yes, of course there are biological/chemical differences. Look at the chemestry of the two sexes…just look at the testosterone vs. estrogen, for example. There are many biological differences and different balances of chemicals which affect things such as aggression. > If one supposes that there’s no substantial difference between >a male brain and a female brain, then one cannot account for the >difference between masculine and feminine behavior without delving into >the idea of GENDER and socialization.
If, indeed,one supposes that. >By definition, gender is determined by socialization. Various >conditions (e.g., culture, parenting styles and politics) produce >"masculine" girls and "feminine" boys. These boys and girls (sometimes >called "tomboys" and "momma’s boys," respectively) identify strongly >with the opposite sex and can achieve total assimilation of certain >behaviors and skills culturally assigned to that sex. But it appears >that children do not consciously consider the masculinity or femininity >of the behaviors they acquire. Thus, you may have a boy who is >"abnormally" compassionate without succumbing to an overidentification >with women and you may find a girl who aggressive without being >"butch."
I agree that a lot (most?) of the ideas of gender or socially influenced. never said it wasn’t..=) > Is a male nurse, to borrow your example, necessarily less >compassionate than a female nurse ?
On average, yes. As a rule? no. >Would a male nurse, as a >consequence of his sex, provide less comfort to his patients ?
comfort in what way? In an empathetic way? probably. In a "I hurt, fix it" way? Probably no. >What genetic instinct makes a man a better bodyguard than a woman ?
His body size and strength…his aggression born out of the hormonal balance in the body… >Is it instinct that allows a bodyguard to identify a potential threat to >his client ?
I’d say more along the lines of training..not instinct. > Does instinct push him to fearlessly protect his client >against this threat ? I don’t think so.
I absolutely do think so. are you saying that it’s not the woman’s instinct to nurture and the man’s instinct to protect? >I’d say a bodyguard’s talent >is defined by his judgment and experience more than anything else. Most >men I know (myself included) would be ill-suited for this profession; >we’re simply not aggressive enough, not fearless enough. Again, I think >an ectomorphic female is just as capable of the task.
And most all of the men I know would be better bodyguards than most any woman I know. >If you chose a woman because of her compassionate side (like a midwife) >or because of her instinct (like caretaker), I wouldn’t have a problem. >"Maternal instinct" usually refers to a woman’s capacity to understand, >interpret and satisfy the needs of a child as well as to protect the >child from harm. It implies a loving rapport with children >characterized by solicitous attention and gentle physical contact.
Umm…you think "maternal instinct" only has to do with the way she treats children? > Do >childless women have "maternal instinct" or is the ability to interpret >a baby’s needs activated by childbirth ?
No…I don’t beleive it has to do with experience but rather instinct. > A midwife certainly doesn’t >"understand" a baby exactly as its own mother does.
*blink* How do you figure? Where do you get this from? Do you think that in order to understand the baby you have to be biologically related to the infant??? >Can a female >caregiver apply her "maternal instinct" to a child that is not her own ?
why would this be in question?? Of course they can! > If childcare is an instinctive rather than learned behavior, how do >you account for the tendency of abused women to mistreat their own >children ?
Because it is possible occasionally for social learning to override instinct. > Why are some women completely incapable of caring for >their own offspring ?
I don’t believe they are incapable as in not possible. but I do believe that a lot of it is hormonal…(and that has been proven) > Why are the majority of reported cases of >child-abuse/neglect attributed to female perpetrators (a great many of >whom — possibly the majority — are mothers) ?
the MAJORITY are not women…but women certainly have the OPPORTUNITY. Go find a poll which shows how many children are in single parent households…and find out how many are headed by men vs. women. women take care of a lot more of the babies then men do. > In the last few years, >there have been more reported instances of women killing their own >children. Is this behavior inherently feminine or is it learned ?
More often than not it’s a psychological problem…usually chemical in nature. But there are CERTAINLY leaps and bounds more instances of paternal infancide than maternal. >Finally, do you believe in "paternal instinct" ?
Yes, I do. > Is this instinct >activated by the act of sexual reproduction ? Is it possible for a >single father, acting alone, to produce a healthy boy or girl ?
Instinct does not require the acting of it in order for it to be present. I do not think it’s impossible for a single father to produce a healthy boy or girl..but I think it’s a heck of a lot more difficult. I do not think it’s impossible for a single mother to produce a healthy boy or girl..but I think it’s a heck of a lot more difficult. >It’s like..what’s better to quench a thirst, ice tea or hot chocolate. >Well…they might both work, but you might prefer one over the other >because they ARE different. >Exactly. We’ve all earned the rights to our biases. I’d like to take >your analogy further. Would you give your child iced tea on a cold >winter day or hot chocolate in mid-summer ? There are times in a >child’s development when he/she may derive more benefit from the >caregiver’s feminine qualities. Alternately, there are times when a >child requires a masculine influence. Do you buy this ?
Absolutely…and I’d even go so far as to say that I beleive that if I were a single mother, I would probably PREFER a male babysitter. He would have those traits I would be looking for to compliment me in helping to raise my child. As it is, he has a mother and a father, both of who are extremely active in his life. As I said…a caretaker of my son would not be replacing his father’s absence (which happens every morning when he goes to work), but MY absence…thus, I would want only a woman caretaker. >Brett
Stephanie
Response:
>Would you hire (or have you ever hired) a male babysitter ? Would you >interview a man who responded to your babysitter-wanted ad in the >newspaper ? Would the gender or age of your children influence your >decision to hire a male sitter ? >Confess your biases, relate your experiences. I’m quite curious.
I am a single mother my son is 2. I would have absolutley no problem with hiring a male babysitter. I judge the people that take care of my son in my absence by their expereince.. by their manner and how well they interact with my son. I did have on very unfortuant experience with a male baby sitter… I had seen him with my son for months before I asked him if he wanted to sit for me while I had a few nigth shifts.. Under supervision he had always been great with my son.. What ended up happening when I left him with my son was awfull.. He let my son cry for 3 hours uninterrupted in his bedroom while he watched my movies on the movie channel. I only found out about after his second visit. I thought he had done a great job becasue Josh was asleep when I came home on both occasions.. Before that I had never let Josh cry for more than a few minutes before attending to him. my son still has problems with being left alone now.. and I am VERY picky about who I have sit.. and I always have my mom or my neighbor stop by the first few times somebody sits for me.. just to see how things are going ..(overprotective I guess.. 
) This has not impacted my views on hiring Male Baby sitters.. I had two male babysitters when I was a child.. And they were great.. they didnt talk all night on the phone with their firends.. and they were fun to hang around with. I think descrimnation on the basis of sex is wrong… no matter what the sex is. Meaghan Walker
Response:
writes: > And at what point does a grown man’s interest in childcare >warrant suspicion ?
When he starts to drool. Kyle
Response:
: Would you hire (or have you ever hired) a male babysitter ? Would you : interview a man who responded to your babysitter-wanted ad in the : newspaper ? Would the gender or age of your children influence your : decision to hire a male sitter ? : Confess your biases, relate your experiences. I’m quite curious. Ok, I followed the threads, saw the arguments, etc. Since there was so much I could respond to, I’ll just do it all in one response to the original message. First thing, I want to ask, how many of you have BEEN there…on EITHER side of the issue? I’ve seen alot of psychobabble, etc, but saw so little that hit home, with me at least. I was molested by my male babysitter when I was five. I suppressed it for ten years. Trying to remember anything else about the first fifteen years of my life is like trying to see in pitch black. I know I lived thru hell, and still do. I suppressed the memory of the incident so thouroughly, that it literally took a team of experts to finally figure out what was wrong with me, and get me to release those memories. I did poorly in school, yet it was obvious I was one of the quickest and brightest minds in the class. I couldn’t concentrate and day-dreamed alot. I kept getting in trouble with the law. I had very few male friends, but was always a hit with the girls. I think you get the picture… Anyhow, around the time I was fifteen, it gotten out of hand. My parents and I decided something was terribly wrong, and I agreed to an ‘Adolescent Psychiactrict Evalutation.’ Six months of searching every dark corner of who I am, of total hell. It all ended with a dream, a dream I’d been having over and over for the past ten years, but until now, never consiously remembered. This time I did. Waking up screaming, I called my doctor in and told him about the bad dream, the dream of a man doing things to me. The doctor changed my life with one simple question, that made everything break. He simply asked me if I was sure that it was ‘only a bad dream.’ My whole life shattered, everything I was, was based on a lie I had been telling myself for ten painful years. I’m now 24, and have rebuilt much of my life. Taking everything I was, everything I learned, and making myself stronger for it. Two years ago, my life changed again, for the better. I first held in my arms the most precious gift that can be bestowed upon anyone. I can’t begin to describe the feelings inside, but I’m sure the parents out there know how I felt, the day my daughter was born. I felt something inside snap, I knew then what life was about, what my reason for existance was. I love my daughter more than life itself, and never thought twice about putting her first. Shortly after Kayla’s birth, the mother and me split up. Six months later, the mother filed motion to deny me visitation, saying Kayla was the result of rape, and that I would molest my own daughter. I now have restricted visitation, under supervisation, until the courts can finish their investigation. I have no doubts about winning, I have letters from the mother where we talked about, and agreed to having a child, and where she said I’d be the best daddy a child could hope for. I love my daughter, and I do alot with her, within the limitations placed upon my times with her. I give her more love then my own parents gave me, more then Kayla’s mom gives her (I still talk to her sister.) I started The Parents Project for her, and all the other parents, whether mother or father. I’ve created a channel on DALNet for the project. I’ve done so much, worked so hard, and I’m not trusted with my own daughter, because I’m male, and the mother made me out to be a perv. The courts didn’t even ask her what proof she had — family court seems to think a man is guilty until proven innocent. I believe in who I am, I believe in my daughter, and the love I have for her. Sex has not made me a bad parent, or the mother a good one. It’s what’s inside that makes the difference. Our children are our most precious resource, yet we treat them too often with indifference. I’m sorry if I rambled on too much, this is a VERY passionate topic for me, given my circumstances, and who I am. Given all this, and the question asked, do I trust male babysitters? The answer is a simple yes. What other answer could there be? Yes, a male babysitter molested me. Yes, the male stereotype is hurting my relationship with my daughter. So then, why would I trust a male babysitter… Well, think about it. Do _ALL_ males molest children? What about females? Are all females automatically good parents? Are all males automatically bad parents? No. Watch the news, how many times do you see some parent(s) leaving their children home alone at seven or eight? And more often then not, the children get placed right back with those parents. I am a help line operator, and I deal with alot of people with all kinds of problems. I do one on one counseling, and group support counseling. I’ve worked with rapists and child molestors. From experience, not from books, I’ve seen what’s really out there, and I’ve been there. Women are just as capable of abusing/molesting children as men. But, when a woman gets caught, more often then not, I’ve seen it become a hush-hush case. When a man gets caught, it’s headline news. Ever wonder why? It’s because our values are messed up. We are embarresed to admit a woman can do such things, and not have the maternal instict. We are embarresed when a man shows affection for his children, and displays the paternal instinct. I’ve never read a book yet that says anything about a paternal instinct. I know there is such a thing, because I feel it deep in my heart and soul. It’s time we swollowed our pride, and put our children _FIRST_. Don’t judge a sitter based on sex, or anything else so frivilous. Look at each prospective sitter as a HUMAN. Look at the qualifications, references, attitudes. Look at the person inside, not the parts on the outside. — CB Mitchell | The ShadowLord http://execpc.com/~cbmitch | ShadowLands Information | Networking Systems
Response:
>Overall, however, I don’t feel that males are any less competent nurturers >or caretakers. I know that my husband, dad, and brother are all EXCELLENT >with children, better than me in many ways. It’s just young men that I >don’t personally know (in that hormone-raging age bracket) that I have >fear about…
Jeez. When I was in High School, guys told me women could not be trusted in positions of authority because of their hormones making them too emotional. And I thought that was sexist! How ironic to find the same stereotyping turned against men, from women themselves. By Sally’s logic, I should not trust women’s hormones either. Especially during adolescence, with the onset of menarche and all that! Those irrational teenage girls might do something stupid and endanger my child, while they are in the throes of that hormonal instability!! Sarcastic tone intended, Erik – who was a very popular boy babysitter in high school.
Response:
> I’m >saying that I *do* believe there is a difference in the care that they >provide as a general rule….men tend to play more with the children, >be disciplinarians, more physical, etc…women tend to be more >outwardly affectionate (men tend to show affection by playing and >rough-housing..women by hugs and kisses), less of a provider and >more of a caretaker (in my experience and opinion…again, MOST >of the time, not all of the time).
This is a chicken/egg question: do men tend to be that way because of their traditional role as the secondary care provider, or have men traditionally been the secondary care provider because of the way they tend to relate differently to children? In our family, neither of us tend to to be "the playful one" or the "affectionate one"–we both play each of those roles at different times as seems appropriatte. Not coincidentally, I have been a SAH dad, and we’ve both been the SAH parent, the primary breadwinner, and somewhere in between. My guess is that we don’t assume those roles *because* of the various division-of-labor schemes we have used in parenting, *not* the other way around. (snip) >Sexist? Maybe..but obviously I don’t think so or I would not have >these opinions. I do not think that men are better than women or >that women are better than men…just acknowlege their differences >and believe that they are each better than the other in certain >areas….(example, men are better than women when it comes to a job >requiring physical strength)..and I think that women are better at >men at NURTURING (the soft, loving, cuddly nurturing) than men are.. >and that’s what I would be wanting and looking for.
Sure, but these differences are broad trends, meaning that there are plenty of exceptions to that trend. If you close yourself off to the reality of those exceptions, you could miss out on the possibilty of a tremendously nurturing male, or, perhpas more importantly, miss the fact that a female is not a very nurturing person. |Craig Weston–Assistant Professor of Music Theory, Composition, | | & Electronic/Computer Music, Iowa State University| | | |WWW: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~cweston/homepage.html |
Response:
I said: >I think an ectomorphic female is just as capable of the task.
Ooops! I meant *mesomorphic*.
Response:
>I think that would depend on your reasonings. If you said that you >would not be comfortable trusting a woman to be, say, a quarterback, >then I would not cry foul.
Why would a woman make a poor quarterback ? Granted, her presence on the field, amid a throng of abnormally large men, would be attention- grabbing and she would definitely play the game differently, but it would be unwise to disqualify her from the sport solely because of her physical constitution or sex. In fact, I think a quick-thinking woman with a strong, accurate throwing arm would make an excellent quarterback. Of course it would help if she were a female body-builder, too. In the not too distant future, I predict, women will integrate themselves into traditionally male-dominated sports. >Accountant? yeah…I probably would because knowledge of an academic >subject has never been shown to be more prevelent in one gender over >the other. Meaning…if you chose a man because of physical strength >for a job (or even instinct…like a bodyguard), I’d not have a >problem.
The notion that men are endowed with superior math skills has been "researched," "proven," and, for many years, accepted by the mainstream human-development community (the same community which theorized that girls have superior language ability). Educational theory in the 1990’s holds that girls, with extra motivation and individual attention, can attain mathematical competence equal to boys (thus, the recent appearance of all-girl math classes in public schools). Research has shown that the reason girls typically lag behind their male counterparts in mathematical ability is primarily related to their socialization (it is also widely held that boys and girls think differently). Most girls learn at a very early age that math: (a) requires logical thought processes of which they are incapable, and (b) is a decidedly masculine pursuit. Forward-thinking educators and parents have discovered that greater care in the presentation of math results in girls’ equal competence. Thus, what has been perceived as a biological shortcoming has been revealed as a stereotypical construct. Do you agree ? Do you believe that biological/chemical differences between male brains and female brains allow for some differences where intellectual ability and thought-processes are concerned (in which case, you must agree that in certain mental endeavors, boys are innately superior to girls and vice versa) ? If one supposes that there’s no substantial difference between a male brain and a female brain, then one cannot account for the difference between masculine and feminine behavior without delving into the idea of GENDER and socialization. By definition, gender is determined by socialization. Various conditions (e.g., culture, parenting styles and politics) produce "masculine" girls and "feminine" boys. These boys and girls (sometimes called "tomboys" and "momma’s boys," respectively) identify strongly with the opposite sex and can achieve total assimilation of certain behaviors and skills culturally assigned to that sex. But it appears that children do not consciously consider the masculinity or femininity of the behaviors they acquire. Thus, you may have a boy who is "abnormally" compassionate without succumbing to an overidentification with women and you may find a girl who aggressive without being "butch." Is a male nurse, to borrow your example, necessarily less compassionate than a female nurse ? Would a male nurse, as a consequence of his sex, provide less comfort to his patients ? What genetic instinct makes a man a better bodyguard than a woman ? Is it instinct that allows a bodyguard to identify a potential threat to his client ? Does instinct push him to fearlessly protect his client against this threat ? I don’t think so. I’d say a bodyguard’s talent is defined by his judgment and experience more than anything else. Most men I know (myself included) would be ill-suited for this profession; we’re simply not aggressive enough, not fearless enough. Again, I think an ectomorphic female is just as capable of the task. >If you chose a woman because of her compassionate side (like a midwife) >or because of her instinct (like caretaker), I wouldn’t have a problem.
"Maternal instinct" usually refers to a woman’s capacity to understand, interpret and satisfy the needs of a child as well as to protect the child from harm. It implies a loving rapport with children characterized by solicitous attention and gentle physical contact. Do childless women have "maternal instinct" or is the ability to interpret a baby’s needs activated by childbirth ? A midwife certainly doesn’t "understand" a baby exactly as its own mother does. Can a female caregiver apply her "maternal instinct" to a child that is not her own ? If childcare is an instinctive rather than learned behavior, how do you account for the tendency of abused women to mistreat their own children ? Why are some women completely incapable of caring for their own offspring ? Why are the majority of reported cases of child-abuse/neglect attributed to female perpetrators (a great many of whom — possibly the majority — are mothers) ? In the last few years, there have been more reported instances of women killing their own children. Is this behavior inherently feminine or is it learned ? Finally, do you believe in "paternal instinct" ? Is this instinct activated by the act of sexual reproduction ? Is it possible for a single father, acting alone, to produce a healthy boy or girl ? Food for thought. >It’s like..what’s better to quench a thirst, ice tea or hot chocolate. >Well…they might both work, but you might prefer one over the other >because they ARE different.
Exactly. We’ve all earned the rights to our biases. I’d like to take your analogy further. Would you give your child iced tea on a cold winter day or hot chocolate in mid-summer ? There are times in a child’s development when he/she may derive more benefit from the caregiver’s feminine qualities. Alternately, there are times when a child requires a masculine influence. Do you buy this ? Brett
Response:
>Would you hire (or have you ever hired) a male babysitter ? Would you >interview a man who responded to your babysitter-wanted ad in the >newspaper ? Would the gender or age of your children influence your >decision to hire a male sitter ? >Confess your biases, relate your experiences. I’m quite curious.
Yes I would hire a male babysitter and even spoke to a few before I knew the gender of my now three month old son. My husband was the first person laid off when he was working in childcare and hasn’t been able to find work in the field since. Sad to say, he’s better with the baby than I am. (I should really spend more time with him, but its hard to get him away from his daddy). Of course my husband’s grandmother is our sitter now, for financial reasons. Rebecca Rebecca Thompson Remember– its cold outside, let your pets indoors.
Response:
Hi all, I agree with Stephanie- I wouldn’t feel entirely comfortable having a male babysitter. I just have this "perception" that males of the usual babysitting age (junior high/high school) are just *so* sexually charged, that it would be more likely for some sort of sexual abuse to occur than if a female of this age were to sit. I blame this perception on the media. When do you ever hear about female sexual abusers! But how many times have you heard about older brothers abusing little sisters, fathers abusing daughters, uncles abusing nieces… I’m sure that there are female perverts out there, maybe just not as many (?). And, I don’t think that it’s entirely possible to judge a book by it’s cover, so unless I knew the young man personally for many years, I don’t think I’d risk it. I’m not saying that it would happen, I just feel like it’s more of a possibility. Overall, however, I don’t feel that males are any less competent nurturers or caretakers. I know that my husband, dad, and brother are all EXCELLENT with children, better than me in many ways. It’s just young men that I don’t personally know (in that hormone-raging age bracket) that I have fear about… Sally S. (mom to Alexandra, 19 mos.)
Response:
>It follows, according to your presumption, that the "motive" for fathers >should ALWAYS be a motive of concern to mothers. What hidden agenda is >lurking between those ears when HE changes (and washes) the dirty baby? >What odd oral fixation bubbles dangerously close to the surface as HE >feeds the baby? >We’d best remove ALL males from the vicinity of children, while there’s >still time!
Kyle, I didn’t mean to imply that discrimination against male babysitters can be credited entirely to women. On the contrary, I think fathers are equally involved in sustaining the stereotypes. You’d think fathers would act as advocates for other men involved in childcare, but many of them have bought into the philosophy which insists that (a) women are superior caregivers, by virtue of their "maternal instinct," (b) men do not derive any strong non-sexual pleasure from childcare, and finally, (c) as a result of their paternity, they alone are excepted from the previous statement. I suspect mothers are generally more open-minded (with regard to men in childcare) than are fathers. What do you think ? Brett
Response:
Stephanie, At least you’re honest about your convictions. Most people are unable or unwilling to rationalize their biases. You’ve revealed yourself to be fairly open minded (inasmuchas introspection implies an ability to see through/into your subjectivity). To quote you: >men tend to play more with the children, >be disciplinarians, more physical, etc…women tend to be more >outwardly affectionate (men tend to show affection by playing and >rough-housing..women by hugs and kisses), less of a provider and >more of a caretaker (in my experience and opinion…again, MOST >of the time, not all of the time).
Are you perhaps diminishing the value of play by positioning it as the diametrical opposite of motherly affection ? Most child development experts allow that physical play (including roughhousing) is a fundamental part of socialization as well as motor- and cognitive- development. If you assume that the ability to nurture is innately feminine/maternal and that playing and roughhousing are decidedly masculine endeavors, then you must take the next step and insist (as nature insists) that BOTH forms of childcare are required for a child’s optimal development. It sounds as if you’re looking for a caregiver who will, in your absence, supplement or replace your maternal care rather than complement it. >I would not hire a man as a caretaker >because I would want someone more nurturing and less playful. (I >also wouldn’t hire a masculine woman).
This is the part of your message that worries me. Do you believe you’d be endangering your child’s emotional and physical safety by leaving him /her in the care of a man ? Yes, I believe "nurturing" should be in the caregiver’s repertoire, but it needn’t define their role. Wouldn’t a masculine woman (or an effeminate man) be an ideal babysitter ? S(he) would have the "mothering" capacity you desire and could (theoretically) offer a balancing male influence. Does your son need a a positive male influence ? Do children need "nurturing" and "hugging" all the time ? Are men incapable of affecting (or inadaptable to) these devices ? What’s meant by the epithet "Momma’s boy" and what kind of man results from the repeated application of this term ? Is a male caregive who is physically affectionate with children necessarily gay or deviant? >*prepares for the flames she knows is going to come after her >un-PC response*
Hope you don’t find the above commentary "inflammatory." My responses are, I assure you, spiteless. Brett
Response:
>>Gender maybe has nothing to do with aptitude at babysitting… >but there are many, like myself, who would not be comfortable >hiring a male babysitter. No, I would not interview one….no, >I would not hire one. *shrug* But, right or wrong, that’s me. >Thanks for your honest reply. Could you be more insightful and specific > with regard to your preference for female sitters ? Can you point to >an incident/story which you believe underscores your "bias" ? What >would be your greatest concern about a male babysitter ?
I think it has to do with how we in society are raised….right or wrong, it gets into your head and even if you are able to acknowledge that it may not be right, it’s still there. I was raised in a "traditional" (what many in here have called "archaic") family household….and thus was raised seeing the "traditional" roles of men and women. There are still some roles that I have difficulty seeing women do (like construction, firefighter, astronaut) that were, as a little kid, thought of as ‘mens roles" (all the little boys wanted to grow up to be these things..) without seeing them as being ‘macho’. There are still some roles that I have difficulty seeing men doing (like ballerina, nurse, secretary) that were, as a little kid, thought of as ‘women’s roles’ (all the little girls wanted to grow up to be these things) without seeing them as effeminate. One of those roles is "Mothering", which is what a babysitter or stay at home father are doing (using the definition of mothering from the dictionary of, "To care for or protect as a mother does; act maternally toward"). I’m not saying that a father isn’t as good of a parent, or that stay at home fathers don’t take care of their children beautifully! I’m saying that I *do* believe there is a difference in the care that they provide as a general rule….men tend to play more with the children, be disciplinarians, more physical, etc…women tend to be more outwardly affectionate (men tend to show affection by playing and rough-housing..women by hugs and kisses), less of a provider and more of a caretaker (in my experience and opinion…again, MOST of the time, not all of the time). The reason I would not hire a man would be because of what I would expect out of my caretaker. I would not hire a woman to move furniture because she tends to not be as strong physically (I also would not hire a weak man). I would not hire a man as a caretaker because I would want someone more nurturing and less playful. (I also wouldn’t hire a masculine woman). Sexist? Maybe..but obviously I don’t think so or I would not have these opinions. I do not think that men are better than women or that women are better than men…just acknowlege their differences and believe that they are each better than the other in certain areas….(example, men are better than women when it comes to a job requiring physical strength)..and I think that women are better at men at NURTURING (the soft, loving, cuddly nurturing) than men are.. and that’s what I would be wanting and looking for. Heh…more than you probably wanted to know, but this is my opinion and view. *prepares for the flames she knows is going to come after her un-PC response* Stephanie Mama to Mikael 5-9-95
Response:
gets stranger and stranger: > The "motive" of male babysitters is, I propose, ALWAYS an issue for
parents. It follows, according to your presumption, that the "motive" for fathers should ALWAYS be a motive of concern to mothers. What hidden agenda is lurking between those ears when HE changes (and washes) the dirty baby? What odd oral fixation bubbles dangerously close to the surface as HE feeds the baby? We’d best remove ALL males from the vicinity of children, while there’s still time! Lord help us Kyle BTW — I was the stay-at-home parent and cared for Riccardo until I came back to the States to set up some business things this fall — The only effect predominately male care had on him, as far as I can see, is that his first word was "Daddy." Boy was Betty jealous! (grin)
Response:
>>Gender maybe has nothing to do with aptitude at babysitting… >but there are many, like myself, who would not be comfortable >hiring a male babysitter. No, I would not interview one….no, >I would not hire one. *shrug* But, right or wrong, that’s me. >And there are many, male and female, you disagree with you.
Yes, there are. And that is by all means their right! (and is nothing I don’t know) >The fact >that you discount male baby sitters indicates you have a preset >judgement of what men are like.
Yep….men and women. >Thus you are prejudice ma’am.
yes..we all are. Show me one person who isn’t and I’ll prove you wrong. We all prejudge…be it based on gender, height, color, weight, profession, etc. It’s human nature. >Because >you prejudge and stereotype. Right or wrong *thats* me. >/ >| Life: Steve R. Schroeder |
I’d say you’re right on the money. (although the "that’s me" kinda threw me…I mean, you did not tell me anything about yourself other than you assesment that I prejudge…which is absolutely correct. But, THAT’S ME…not you. Meaning.. I’d love to hear YOUR opinions on this matter….) Stephanie
Response:
>>Gender maybe has nothing to do with aptitude at babysitting… >but there are many, like myself, who would not be comfortable >hiring a male babysitter. No, I would not interview one….no, >I would not hire one. *shrug* But, right or wrong, that’s me. >Stephanie >Stephanie — >If I said, gee, I would not be comfortable trusting a woman to be an >accountant, *shrug*, right or wrong, thats me, you’d cry foul.
I think that would depend on your reasonings. If you said that you would not be comfortable trusting a woman to be, say, a quarterback, then I would not cry foul. Accountant? yeah…I probably would because knowledge of an academic subject has never been shown to be more prevelent in one gender over the other. Meaning…if you chose a man because of physical strength for a job (or even instinct…like a bodyguard), I’d not have a problem. If you chose a woman because of her compassionate side (like a midwife) or because of her instinct (like caretaker), I wouldn’t have a problem. >I am very >disappointed that you take such comfort in your own biases.
I’m sorry to disappoint you….but I DO feel comfortable with my bias. I DO believe that men and women are not the same…not better than each other, but still different. It’s like..what’s better to quench a thirst, ice tea or hot chocolate. Well…they might both work, but you might prefer one over the other because they ARE different. Stephanie
Response:
>Gender maybe has nothing to do with aptitude at babysitting… >but there are many, like myself, who would not be comfortable >hiring a male babysitter. No, I would not interview one….no, >I would not hire one. *shrug* But, right or wrong, that’s me.
Thanks for your honest reply. Could you be more insightful and specific with regard to your preference for female sitters ? Can you point to an incident/story which you believe underscores your "bias" ? What would be your greatest concern about a male babysitter ?
Response:
Are you asking if men are more likely to abuse, or women? If you are, I would have to tell you, abuse comes in many shapes. I would look into ALL of my would be sitters references plus asking the authorities to do a background check. Cindy Van Camp.
Response:
>Gender maybe has nothing to do with aptitude at babysitting… >but there are many, like myself, who would not be comfortable >hiring a male babysitter. No, I would not interview one….no, >I would not hire one. *shrug* But, right or wrong, that’s me.
And there are many, male and female, you disagree with you. The fact that you discount male baby sitters indicates you have a preset judgement of what men are like. Thus you are prejudice ma’am. Because you prejudge and stereotype. Right or wrong *thats* me. / | Life: Steve R. Schroeder | | IRC: Zamdrist | | WWW: http://www.winternet.com/~zamdrist |
Response:
> Would you hire (or have you ever hired) a male babysitter ?
I don’t know about long term care (he’s a one nighter type), but one of our most reliable and liked babysitters is a male. He does a great job. He was the first person to sit for us, aside from visiting parents. rdb
Response:
Would you hire (or have you ever hired) a male babysitter ? Would you interview a man who responded to your babysitter-wanted ad in the newspaper ? Would the gender or age of your children influence your decision to hire a male sitter ? Confess your biases, relate your experiences. I’m quite curious.
Response:
taps out, most industriously: >Would you hire (or have you ever hired) a male babysitter ? Would you >interview a man who responded to your babysitter-wanted ad in the >newspaper ?
Would you hire (or have you hired) a female babysitter ? Would you interview a woman who responded to your babysitter-wanted ad in the newspaper ? This looks pretty stupid now, doesn’t it? Gender has nothing to do with aptitude at babysitting. Kyle
Response:
>taps out, most industriously: >Would you hire (or have you ever hired) a male babysitter ? Would you >interview a man who responded to your babysitter-wanted ad in the >newspaper ? >Would you hire (or have you hired) a female babysitter ? Would you >interview a woman who responded to your babysitter-wanted ad in the >newspaper ? >This looks pretty stupid now, doesn’t it? >Gender has nothing to do with aptitude at babysitting. >Kyle
Gender maybe has nothing to do with aptitude at babysitting… but there are many, like myself, who would not be comfortable hiring a male babysitter. No, I would not interview one….no, I would not hire one. *shrug* But, right or wrong, that’s me. Stephanie
Response:
>… >Gender has nothing to do with aptitude at babysitting.
…but it has everything to do with perceived (and often exaggerated) risk that the babysitter might abuse the baby. Men who express interest in young children are often regarded with quite a bit of suspicion. At worst, it can cost one a number of years of one’s life, as in Ray Buckey’s case with the McMartin preschool witch hunt. The primary accusations and pre-trial restraint were directed at him because he stood out, being a young male who chose a career in child care. That, and the fact that he did not always were underwear, were enough to keep in jail for six year prior to his acquittal.
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