Pure Parents

Question:

I only want to say how appreciative I am of all your support and help with this.  Thanks so much again, and I’ll let you know how things pan out. You all are the best! Susan

Response:

OK.  Here’s my take on the situation.  I think the mean streak is not just in the little girl; it’s also present in the mother.  And it is part of our job as parents to protect our kids when possible from unfairness and negative influences, among other things.  (Granted, during their school years, they will encounter many unfair situations; i.e. bullies, etc., and we can’t shield/shelter them from everything.  But these girls are only 4 years old.)  It seems to me that this mother, and thus her daughter, are not likely to improve as time goes on.  She obviously can’t or won’t deal with her daughter responsibly and seems to have no desire or intention to do so. If I were you, I’d be extremely careful not to let your daughter have unsupervised time with the little girl.  And by unsupervised, I mean it needs to be better supervised than just by the other mother. I teach in a public high school, and just last year I saw an example of what can happen when a not-so-bad kid who is easily influenced and a "bad" kid (or one whose parents let him get away with EVERYTHING) are allowed to play together and hang out together for years.  Just guess which kid ends up having the most influence on the other. It puzzles me that your daughter still seems to want to spend time with this girl.  But it could be that (even at this young age) she may be subconsciously seeking acceptance from this little "meanie," since more often than not, she experiences so many forms of rejection from her. I don’t know; maybe I’m making too much out of this.  And I’m sorry I have offered no real solutions, just a lot of negative thoughts about it.  I just wanted to offer a suggestion — that you remember that your daughter’s self-esteem and well-being, as well as her "direction" in life, are more important than whether these two little neighbors (and/or their mommies, for that matter) are friends. (Just food for thought…)

Response:

I have to admit that this was part of my own take on the matter also. I don’t know if I would continue the adult friendship even if I allowed the girls to play together. It sounded like this mother got a kick out of her daughter’s bad behavior and that isn’t the kind of friend I would want to hang out with.   I guess though that we cannot fully judge that only by the few things that were given us in the original post. I think what got to me was the poster’s statement that the other mother didn’t seem to care when her daughter was exhibiting this behavior and may have even reinforced it by laughing at it when the child was younger. Dorothy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >OK.  Here’s my take on the situation.  I think the mean streak is not just >in the little girl; it’s also present in the mother.  And it is part of our >job as parents to protect our kids when possible from unfairness and >negative influences, among other things.  (Granted, during their school >years, they will encounter many unfair situations; i.e. bullies, etc., and >we can’t shield/shelter them from everything.  But these girls are only 4 >years old.)  It seems to me that this mother, and thus her daughter, are not >likely to improve as time goes on.  She obviously can’t or won’t deal with >her daughter responsibly and seems to have no desire or intention to do so. >If I were you, I’d be extremely careful not to let your daughter have >unsupervised time with the little girl.  And by unsupervised, I mean it >needs to be better supervised than just by the other mother. >I teach in a public high school, and just last year I saw an example of what >can happen when a not-so-bad kid who is easily influenced and a "bad" kid >(or one whose parents let him get away with EVERYTHING) are allowed to play >together and hang out together for years.  Just guess which kid ends up >having the most influence on the other. >It puzzles me that your daughter still seems to want to spend time with this >girl.  But it could be that (even at this young age) she may be >subconsciously seeking acceptance from this little "meanie," since more >often than not, she experiences so many forms of rejection from her. >I don’t know; maybe I’m making too much out of this.  And I’m sorry I have >offered no real solutions, just a lot of negative thoughts about it.  I just >wanted to offer a suggestion — that you remember that your daughter’s >self-esteem and well-being, as well as her "direction" in life, are more >important than whether these two little neighbors (and/or their mommies, for >that matter) are friends. >(Just food for thought…)

Response:

> I have to admit that this was part of my own take on the matter also. > I don’t know if I would continue the adult friendship even if I allowed > the girls to play together. It sounded like this mother got a kick out > of her daughter’s bad behavior and that isn’t the kind of friend I would > want to hang out with.   I guess though that we cannot fully judge that > only by the few things that were given us in the original post. I think > what got to me was the poster’s statement that the other mother didn’t > seem to care when her daughter was exhibiting this behavior and > may have even reinforced it by laughing at it when the child was younger.

As much as I hate it, I would have to agree.  But the part that got to me was the part in which the other mother tried to convince her daughter to go into the pool with the pretzel right after she had been told to not do that very thing by her mother.  My blood boiled when I read that. It is very difficult when you have children because there are more things to consider when we pick our friends or when our children pick their friends.  I have let friendships die because of parenting issues. It’s very hard.  I can handle just about any behavior a toddler can dish out when I know the mother is working on it.  Some problems are difficult, and sometimes it takes a few different tries before finding what works.  But I cannot sit back and watch my children be hurt, physically or emotionally, while the other parent just laughs about it. I figure I have to draw the line somewhere, and hurting my children is where my line is drawn. To the mother who originally posted the question… There is no need to make a big scene with this mother (not suggesting you would, of course). What you might want to consider trying is to help your daughter spend more time with her other friends who treat her with respect.  Continue fostering these other friendships by inviting their children with you to the park, pool or wherever.  One of the reasons your daughter may be putting up with the disrespectful way her friend is treating her is out of familiarity.  If she’s played with this child for half her life, she will be conformable with her even if this child hurts her.  The best way to deal with this is to help your daughter become equally as familiar with other friends while, simultaneously, becoming less and less familiar with her original friend (meaning, don’t have her play with this child so often, and cut it down more and more until the friendship dwindles).   Also consider whether this is part of the reason you are continuing to visit with this other mother.  You can call her and say, "Hey, let’s go do X" all the while knowing how she will respond and what she’ll do. With a different mother, you may not know how she might respond to your idea.  She may be too busy.  Or maybe she wants you to pick up her child rather than her dropping her child off at your house.  There is always a period of time in which you have to go through a bit of uncertainty when starting to change who your child plays with.   Sometimes, as parents, we have to sit back and decide whether we really like the way things are turning out.  And if we really do not like it, then we have to make changes.  Even when we don’t want to make the changes.  Sometimes we really have no other choice if that’s what’s best for our child. Take Care! Vicki Surratt Proud Mom of Kathy (6) and Jenny (9)! Visit my website!  http://www.vickishome.com Home of the Newsgroup Photo Album!  

Response:

> Deep inside, I don’t feel it is right for my daughter to play > with this other child anymore and chance anymore bad encounters or experiences.

I just have to say, "Trust your gut."  If you don’t think it’s a good situation, then it probably isn’t.  It sure doesn’t sound good to me.   > I am very interested in how you went about killing off these friendships. I am > not one to want to start an arguement or fight, or hurt anyone. Is there a nice > way I can get around this? I think I would be doing this girl’s mother a HUGE > favor by telling her nicely that she needs to clean up her daughter’s act. Or, > I could just skip around the real reason and just keep putting them off.

I’m pretty non confrontational too.  When I need to avoid people, I suddenly have urgent things to do around the house.  :-}  "I’m really sorry, but I have 46 loads of laundry to do and I really HAVE to get them done today!"  You don’t have to say anything at all to her.  Remember it’s **your** time and you may spend it as you choose.  You don’t have to spend half your day with someone you don’t like.  (Can’t tell you how much better I felt when I learned that lesson.)  If the woman makes you uncomfortable, then just don’t be around her.  And from what you have said about her, I doubt a wake up call would garner any results. > I am feeling a little better about this. The last thing I want to do is hurt my > daughter by taking away a friend, but she needs to learn just what a "friend" > means. I can be sure to get her involved with other girls to play with. Do you > think she will resent me or it will lead to other problems (having secret > friendships, etc.) when she gets older, by my stepping in and ending this > friendship for her?

The way to handle that is with a lot of subtlety. My daughter is 7.  She has a friend that I just don’t allow her to play with anymore unless I can be right there the whole time.  He is a wild child.  He has no respect for rules, has set the field behind his house on fire (twice), flushed a live rabbit down the toilet, and many other things.  She feels sorry for him because the other kids at school exclude him.  So she wants to be with him.  I respect her desire to help out another person, but I can’t allow her to play at his house.  I just can’t.  His mother is not worthy of the title mother.  It’s a really long, ugly story.  Suffice it to say she doesn’t parent much at all.  I can’t risk my child’s well being. I won’t let her play over there.  When this first became an issue, I told her it makes me nervous to not be able to see her when she is playing.  I told her it’s not because I don’t trust her. Simply because I worry she might get hurt or something like that.  I went on to tell her that Mommy is just an old worrywart.  She accepted that. I didn’t put the blame on Kevin or his mother.  I just let her know what makes me comfortable.   Now that she is older, that excuse doesn’t wash with her anymore.  (Especially since I can’t see another friend’s house from the window and I let her go over there.)  So we had a talk about how Kevin’s mother is a different kind of parent than I am.  (note:  I didn’t use the words BAD or WORSE, just different.)  I told her that we don’t do things the same way and that I don’t feel safe letting her do some of the things that his mother lets him do.  We talked about him setting fires and how dangerous that was.  I told her that if she went over there and he did it again, that she could get hurt even though I know she would try to stop him and call 911.  It might be too late and she would already be hurt.  She understood that and is fine with it.  Yes, she may go to Kevin and tell him what I said.  He may in turn tell his mother.  But do I really care about that?  Nope.  Anna knows it’s fine with me that she and Kevin be friends.  But she also knows that they may only play together here.  And she knows that if he won’t follow the rules here, he will have to go home.  (I have evicted him from our yard more than once.  Another thing I have no problem with.  I tell him to come back the next day IF he is ready to follow the rules.  Another thing my daughter understands.  If she doesn’t follow the rules, she doesn’t get to play either.) Try letting the other child come to your house if they still want to play together.  You know you can oversee their behavior there.  But I would just be too busy to take her to the other girl’s house.  Or, if the other mother offers to come get her, that might just be the day your daughter needs to clean her room/help bathe the pets/whatever sounds reasonable to you.  See what I’m saying?  Avoid the situations where you can’t be there to help your daughter out if she needs you.  By all means try to encourage her to play with other girls.  She may see on her own, if the others treat her nicely, that playing with this girl is not fun.  She may decide to end that friendship all on her own.  The thing to not do is say "I don’t think you and ____ should be friends any more, because she is not nice to you."  If you are diplomatic (and subtle) about the way you handle this situation, I really doubt you will have her worried enough to have "secret friends" from you in the future. Hang in there.  It’s not a fun situation to be in.  But I think you have a good handle on it.   Sharon

Response:

> It was actually the little girl who tried to get my daughter to get into the > pool with her pretzel after I told her not to.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up.  That is still not the kind of behavior I’d want from my children’s friends, but it’s a lot easier to take if it came from the child and not the mother. > I am a little torn between what I should do here. Deep inside, I don’t > feel it is right for my daughter to play with this other child anymore and > chance anymore bad encounters or experiences.

You just answered your own question.  There is one thing to remember in parenting… ALWAYS trust your instincts.  Your gut feeling will always be right 100% of the time.  It is when we try to use our own reasoning to go against our instincts that we run into trouble. The problem I see you’re having right now is not in deciding to end the friendship, but how to go about the process of doing it without hurting your daughter, her friend, or her friend’s mother.  I can appreciate that. > And, you are right. The mother doesn’t do too much to improve the > behavior, otherwise,it would be improved by now. I really am not fond of > the mother, in fact, she has insulted me indirectly on numerous occasions. > It is 100% due to her age, maturity level and ignorance.  I have had > plenty of conversations with her and I know she wouldn’t intentionally set > out to hurt someone. I think she just isn’t aware of the tactfulness that > is needed. This is someone who doesn’t even feel the need to put a small > child in a carseat if it’s more convenient than not. She is 9 years > younger than me (I am 36.) That is a big age difference and maturity > difference, at least in talking about her. I have met other 27 year olds > who are more mature.

As you said, the age isn’t the problem here.  A 17 year old can be mature.  I’ve seen 40+ parents who were immature.  It is the maturity level and not her age that’s causing the problems.  Perhaps she just doesn’t know any better and isn’t bright enough to figure out what’s going to happen down the road if she doesn’t begin to discipline her child now. > I think I also agree that my daughter has habitually played with this girl > and I need to break that "habit" by getting her to play more with other > kids, and let that friendship dwindle down. I know that some of you have > probably broken up your children’s friendships because of one reason or > another. What do you say or do when the other party calls to ask you if > your child can play? I am dealing with someone my daughter has played with > weekly for two years. The other thing I can do is that if they do play > together, the other child must come to my house where I can supervise > their playtime together. This is so weird. I’ve never had a problem with > any of my daughter’s friends like this.

This is where your problem is.  How to do it.  I’ll be honest with you, I have never found an easy way to do it.  I am a very honest person and cannot make up excuses very easily.  When I do lie, it bothers me to no end.  So with that in mind, I will try to offer some suggestions here. These suggestions are to help you springboard off of them, not to take them literally. I was in the very same position with another mother, but we had not been visiting for very long.  Basically, I made her uncomfortable without coming right out and telling her I found her parenting unacceptable. She came over with all 3 of her kids, including a baby.  When she tried to let her baby crawl all over my carpet with his bottle, I explained to her that we do not eat on our carpet.  When she tried to say, "oh, he’s just a baby… or it’s just a bottle," I told her I understood.  And then followed that with the statement that he is *welcome* (saying the positive which implies the negative) to drink his bottle in the kitchen. Then I preceded to announce to all the children we were moving into the kitchen.  As the baby crawled out of the kitchen, I pulled out a chair and *politely* offered it to her so she could hold her son while he was drinking his bottle.  When she grew tired of holding him, she tried to put up the bottle, but her baby protested.  After a while, I told her *very sweetly*, "Oh, he’s really tired and hungry.  How about we let him go on home where he can have a rest.  The girls can get together next week."  And then I proceeded to make that happen by telling the girls to clean up because it was time for the visiting girls to leave. It didn’t take long before the other mother decided she had other things to do on those days. Another time I did something very similar which also gave the mother the hint.  Her child was hitting mine and being "mean" similar to the way you were describing.  I started correcting the child right in front of the mother.  I would tell the child, "We don’t hit in this house.  If you continue to hit, you will be sent home."  The child then demanded to go home, and so the mother left.  They didn’t return.  Actually, this didn’t happen quite this fast as there were several visits that lead up to this in which I corrected the child in front of the mother.  The mother did not like what I was doing, but in all fairness, those are the rules of my house, and no one is allowed to break them.  So if it ticks off the other mother, well, so be it.  I have had other mothers respond quite the opposite and tell me they are grateful that I care enough to have those rules so I don’t consider enforcing the rules to be a rude thing in general.  The problem you will have is you will be starting to create NEW rules which may be difficult to do.  But you can do it. One time I had a mother hound me to have my daughter over at her house. This mother was obviously not supervising her children as she began calling me as much as 3-5 times a day asking me if I knew where her children were (they were 4 and 6 years old at the time).  She said she took a nap, and when she woke up, they were gone.  MAJOR RED FLAG!  I couldn’t get this mother to stop calling me so I finally told her straight out my children could not play at their house but her children were welcome to come to mine.  She knew immediately why, started yelling obscenities, and slammed down the phone.  Shortly after that, her husband removed her from the house (long story) and the problem was gone.  The point being, if you tell this other mother your daughter cannot play at their house anymore because she isn’t supervising them, she might react just as badly. Of course, you could always sit down and have a heart-to-heart talk with the other mother and let her know how you feel.  This may or may not upset her.  Chances are, it will upset you the most (assuming you will spend a lot of energy and concern on the talk and the other mother may just laugh you off).  Then, you can begin to enforce new rules or whatever.  At least the other mother will see that things are changing before the change occurs. The biggest problem with all these suggestions is that if you make the other mother upset enough to stop coming suddenly, you will have a lot of explaining to your daughter why her friend isn’t coming over any more.  Personally, that would be extremely hard for me. So that brings me to some other, less direct, suggestions. I get the impression these play sessions are a once a week date that’s done on the same day each week at the same time.  Is this right? Assuming it is, what you need is something – anything! – to break up the fixed habit.  Your schedule needs to change somehow.  It needs to break up the regularity of these play dates just long enough for everything to get mixed up.  Once the regularity of the play dates are broken, you’re off the hook. Considering your daughter’s age, this is a time in which she may begin activities such as dance, gymnastics, Brownies (maybe, I could be wrong about that), preschool and others.  Of course, I would not put her into anything just to avoid this other child, but if your daughter was about to join something new, why not schedule it so that it messes up the play schedules with the other child.  And then when you reschedule the play dates, keep changing the days and times around so they don’t get fixed on anything regularly.  It would serve to break up the regular schedule without breaking it completely.  Then it could dwindle down in time. You can also tell the other mother your daughter has been asking for this other new friend she met in her new activity to come over to play, but the only time the other can come over is at the same time her child comes over (you don’t have to tell her the reason this is the only time is to break up the play dates). I hope there is something in all that you can work with.  I have used all kinds of reasons to get out of things like this, and when they are plausible, no one’s feelings get hurt (like the time my daughter’s gym schedule changed so I just *had* to quit the carpool – never mind that the other mother was late ALL the time and I wanted out very badly). Look for something that would work for you.   > I am very interested in how you went about killing off these friendships. > I am not one to want to start an arguement or fight, or hurt anyone. Is > there a nice way I can get around this? I think I would be doing this > girl’s mother a HUGE favor by telling her nicely that she needs to clean > up her daughter’s act. Or, I could just skip around the real reason and > just keep putting them off.

The only problem with telling the other mother to clean up her act (I know you’d do it tactfully) is the other mother may be offended and never come back.  Then what will you say to your daughter?  This is, of course, the most righteous answer – to be completely open and honest with the mother.  But it may have consequences that affect the children. So use your best judgement here as you are the one who knows this other mother. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am feeling a little better

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Response:

>But the part that got to >me was the part in which the other mother tried to convince her daughter >to go into the pool with the pretzel right after she had been told to >not do that very thing by her mother.  

It was actually the little girl who tried to get my daughter to get into the pool with her pretzel after I told her not to. I am a little torn between what I should do here. Deep inside, I don’t feel it is right for my daughter to play with this other child anymore and chance anymore bad encounters or experiences. And, you are right. The mother doesn’t do too much to improve the behavior, otherwise,it would be improved by now. I really am not fond of the mother, in fact, she has insulted me indirectly on numerous occasions. It is 100% due to her age, maturity level and ignorance.  I have had plenty of conversations with her and I know she wouldn’t intentionally set out to hurt someone. I think she just isn’t aware of the tactfulness that is needed. This is someone who doesn’t even feel the need to put a small child in a carseat if it’s more convenient than not. She is 9 years younger than me (I am 36.) That is a big age difference and maturity difference, at least in talking about her. I have met other 27 year olds who are more mature. I think I also agree that my daughter has habitually played with this girl and I need to break that "habit" by getting her to play more with other kids, and let that friendship dwindle down. I know that some of you have probably broken up your children’s friendships because of one reason or another. What do you say or do when the other party calls to ask you if your child can play? I am dealing with someone my daughter has played with weekly for two years. The other thing I can do is that if they do play together, the other child must come to my house where I can supervise their playtime together. This is so weird. I’ve never had a problem with any of my daughter’s friends like this.   >I have let friendships die because of parenting issues. >It’s very hard

I am very interested in how you went about killing off these friendships. I am not one to want to start an arguement or fight, or hurt anyone. Is there a nice way I can get around this? I think I would be doing this girl’s mother a HUGE favor by telling her nicely that she needs to clean up her daughter’s act. Or, I could just skip around the real reason and just keep putting them off. I am feeling a little better about this. The last thing I want to do is hurt my daughter by taking away a friend, but she needs to learn just what a "friend" means. I can be sure to get her involved with other girls to play with. Do you think she will resent me or it will lead to other problems (having secret friendships, etc.) when she gets older, by my stepping in and ending this friendship for her? thanks so much for your help. Susan

Response:

>>I have let friendships die because of parenting issues. >It’s very hard >I am very interested in how you went about killing off these friendships. I am >not one to want to start an arguement or fight, or hurt anyone. Is there a nice >way I can get around this? I think I would be doing this girl’s mother a HUGE >favor by telling her nicely that she needs to clean up her daughter’s act. Or, >I could just skip around the real reason and just keep putting them off.

I had a friend who was closer than a sister since we were 8 years old. We roomed together briefly in college, but she went totally out of control at that time and we didn`t talk for quite a while.  A few years later, we both had kids and resumed our friendship. After awhile I observed a lot of her behaviors and the way she treated her kids that I just couldn`t tolerate.  When she dropped by, I was always getting ready to go out when she called, I either wasn`t home or was in the middle of something, if she wanted to make plans, I was always busy that day.  She eventually stopped calling and I haven`t heard from her in over a year.  I miss her terribly, the way we used to be, but I can`t have her in my life without some major changes. Don`t know if this helps any, but its a way to let a "friendship" die without a confrontation. Pam mom to Max, 1991 Ted, b. June 11- d. July 12, 1995 Cassie, 1996

Response:

Thank you all for your suggestions. I really appreciate the time you took to write your thoughts. They gave me alot to think about. I will update you when something happens. For now, I have no plans to call the other child to come over and play. Rather, I will have to deal with them calling us to invite my daughter over to play. Since she’s been over there the last couple of times, I will say that it’s time for the other child to come over here and play (where I can supervise them). .>The thing to not do is >say "I don’t think you and ____ should be friends >any more, because she is not nice to you."

I’m afraid I already made the mistake of explaining to my daughter that she doesn’t need to have friends that are mean to her, such as this girl. I also tried to explain the behaviors of her other nice girlfriends, and isn’t it nice to play with girls like that, which she understood and agreed with. I think it’s out of habit that she wants to be friends with her, though. Like I said, I will be working on more play dates for her. Thanks again and I’ll keep you up to date. Susan

Response:

P.S. I forgot to mention in my latest post about having the child come to our house to play where I can supervise, that the other child has a "thing" about not wanting to go to other people’s houses now. So she’ll either be here and be supervised (and sent home if she acts up) or she won’t be here at all since she won’t want to be. I am pretty sure the mother will get the message that my daughter cannot go to their house any longer, especially if we keep saying we want the other child coming to our house. Maybe it can dwindle down on its own this way. Susan

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >The thing to not do is say "I don’t think you and ____ should be friends > >any more, because she is not nice to you." > I’m afraid I already made the mistake of explaining to my daughter that > she doesn’t need to have friends that are mean to her, such as this girl. > I also tried to explain the behaviors of her other nice girlfriends, and > isn’t it nice to play with girls like that, which she understood and > agreed with. I think it’s out of habit that she wants to be friends with > her, though. Like I said, I will be working on more play dates for her. > I don’t see any mistakes here.  I think you have done a terrific job of > talking with your daughter in the manner you did.  You didn’t *dictate* > to your daughter that she couldn’t be friends with this other child (and > I think that’s what Sharon was suggesting that you not do), but you did > help her to see the difference between this other child’s behavior and > the behavior of a true friend.  Because you have taken the time to talk > with your daughter, and she is in agreement with you, she will > understand why she isn’t playing with this other child now.

Yep.  That’s just what I meant.  Thanks Vicki for understanding me!!  :-} I should have been more clear.  I meant what Vicki said.  We all know if we lay down the law and say "You can’t be friends with_____" and leave it at that, the child will want to (most of the time) do the opposite of what we say.  I see nothing at all wrong with the way you spoke with your daughter about it.  There’s a world of difference between explaining how a good friend would treat her and cutting ties completely without talking it out first.   I think you are doing a wonderful job handling this.  It’s not an easy situation to deal with. (I know just where you are coming from!)  I am so glad we were all here to help you work it out. Sometimes we just need to hear that what we are thinking about doing is the right thing.   My best, Sharon

Response:

> >The thing to not do is say "I don’t think you and ____ should be friends >any more, because she is not nice to you." > I’m afraid I already made the mistake of explaining to my daughter that > she doesn’t need to have friends that are mean to her, such as this girl. > I also tried to explain the behaviors of her other nice girlfriends, and > isn’t it nice to play with girls like that, which she understood and > agreed with. I think it’s out of habit that she wants to be friends with > her, though. Like I said, I will be working on more play dates for her.

I don’t see any mistakes here.  I think you have done a terrific job of talking with your daughter in the manner you did.  You didn’t *dictate* to your daughter that she couldn’t be friends with this other child (and I think that’s what Sharon was suggesting that you not do), but you did help her to see the difference between this other child’s behavior and the behavior of a true friend.  Because you have taken the time to talk with your daughter, and she is in agreement with you, she will understand why she isn’t playing with this other child now. Between this message and the other one you posted, it sounds to me like you have a good handle on the situation.  It is unfortunate any of this had to happen, but you’re doing a great job with it. > Thanks again and I’ll keep you up to date.

I’m looking forward to hearing that your daughter is enjoying playing with friends whom treat her with the respect she deserves.  I am quite certain your daughter will do very well.  She has a good Mom. Take Care! Vicki Surratt Proud Mom of Kathy (6) and Jenny (9)! Visit my website!  http://www.vickishome.com Home of the Newsgroup Photo Album!

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