Question:
>Yes, I see where you are coming from. I don’t ever use the word *punishment* >b/c of my childhood. I WAS beaten. Shame, humiliation & fear were my fathers >tools for parenting.
Marie was also say that was her experience. Often, if someone what hit as a child, they will not have a clear idea of discipline that does not include hitting. >I prefer to use the word *discipline* instead when >discussing Ryan w/ my DH. I’ve always hated that phrase ," You are going to >be punished!"
One could always say something like, " Do that again, and you will earn yourself a time out". Keep the ball in his court.
Response:
The time to "take a breather" is after you have established with the child which one of you is the leader.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->As Amanda put it…my 0.02 is – just remember to take a breather when >possible. The angrier you get the more the child perceives it and >continues…I think. >Just Breathe! and maybe the both of you will survive this 
>Good Luck!!! > Hello! My daughter, Christina is 4. We have been using > time-out for her, making her sit in a chair for 4 > minutes. It is turning into hell for us and probably > her too. She doesn’t seem to understand that if she > stays in it, she can get out after 4 minutes, and if > she keeps getting up and running away, it will be > longer. We set a clock to go off after the 4 minutes so > she’ll know when it is time. > She is very strong-willed and I don’t know what else to > do. Every time she will hit her sister, or tell us no > when we tell her to do something, we tell her to sit in > the chair. She will scream and cry and will NOT get in > the chair, and we have to hold her physically in the > chair. She kicks us, hits us, scratches us, and screams > at us the whole time, and it is not turning out to be > effective for her. > It is tearing my nerves up. I can think of nothing else > to do. We’ve tried the corner, but we have to stand > behind her and hold her in it, and even then she climbs > up the wall with her legs. We’ve tried just sitting on > the couch-she runs away. We’ve tried putting her in her > room but she plays or runs out. > I feel like a failure as a mother. Aren’t we supposed > to teach them to mind us? I’ve also tried overlooking > certain things so we can focus on one action at a time, > and it makes it worse. I don’t expect her to be an > angel, but I can’t see letting her get away with > EVERYTHING. Just telling her not to do something > doesn’t work. > My mom just screamed and hit us with a belt everytime > we did something wrong growing up and I don’t believe > in doing that. > I’m planning on starting homeschooling soon but I’m not > sure I can do it with Christina when I can’t even take > control of the situation. I’m scared now that I’m going > to mess up because of that. > If anyone has any suggestions please let me hear (read) > some. I have no idea of what to do now. > If my relatives have her, she is fine. She obeys them > with no problem. It is only at home that she’s like > this. And when we go out in public, she’s not as bad as > she is at home. It is worse at night, too, while we are > trying to brush their teeth and give them a bath. I > dread bedtime because I know it will be a giant > struggle. > Thanks > Marie > www.freeyellow.com/members6/mommydowis/index.htm
Response:
I am a behaviorist. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Behaviorism has a lot to offer when a child is out of control. Ideally >one doesn’t get to that point and most kids don’t need stickers, prizes >and points to function — but a seriously disturbed home relationship >can sometimes be normalized so that other aspects of relationship >building and development of self discipline can occur. >Behaviorism is based on the principal that *all* behavior is a reaction >to environmental stimulus. It can be useful in *some* cases to return a >child to a place where they can begin to listen and communicate with >some facility, but it does not teach children discipline because it holds >the motivation *outside* the child. >It has been used to justify the folk wisdom about punishment and rewards >because Skinner had scientific standing. However, it would pay people >to look at the newest research and to think about the fact that Skinner >and other psychologists who used the technique were generalizing from >experiments with lab animals. Behaviorism is what you use to *train* >animals (and, of course, you can *train* humans also), but real learning >takes time, effort and different methods. We want to *educate* our >children, not just *train* them to behave. >Dorothy
Response:
>And of course you used physical restraints and strapped them to chairs. >Do this in a child care center and you will be fired.
We never HAD to. It’s ridiculous to be terrorized by a 4 year old. Not only that, but this time is very important to young children in learning that they have to obey, even though they might not feel like it at the time. Certainly, if the child were in my custody, I’d let the parent know what was going on. If they would not go along with the use of some restrain on such a young child, I would refuse to continue supervision. >Mine involved helping my children to become self-disciplined, >self-regulating >adults who could solve problems on their own and figure out how to get their >needs met without conflict, but maybe yours would be different. This is >done >pretty much without physical or emotional punishment or material rewards. >Dorothy
It is an error to assume we are talking about YOUR kids. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Behaviorism has a lot to offer when a child is out of control. Ideally >one doesn’t get to that point and most kids don’t need stickers, prizes >and points to function — but a seriously disturbed home relationship >can sometimes be normalized so that other aspects of relationship >building and development of self discipline can occur. > Behaviorism is based on the principal that *all* behavior is a reaction > to environmental stimulus. It can be useful in *some* cases to return a > child to a place where they can begin to listen and communicate with > some facility, but it does not teach children discipline because it holds > the motivation *outside* the child.
Yeah obviously. What I just said.
Response:
Yes, I see where you are coming from. I don’t ever use the word *punishment* b/c of my childhood. I WAS beaten. Shame, humiliation & fear were my fathers tools for parenting. I prefer to use the word *discipline* instead when discussing Ryan w/ my DH. I’ve always hated that phrase ," You are going to be punished!" It still rubs me the wrong way to hear it. My hang up but thanks for explaining your post. — Grub*67 (remove *no-spam* when replying) "Some people think we put that we put our life on hold to raise a child but we know that to hold a child is life"
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There is a diferrence between *punishment* & * discipline.* > Marie there are some most excellent words of wisdom on this ng. I was going > to put in my 2 cents b/c my son is simular to your daughter, but it is not > needed. I only hope you ignore the negative replies, do what sounds positive > to you and good luck! > Ginny > There is a difference between punishment and beating the socks off > a kid too — but there is no effective discipline for an out of control > child that does not require negative consequences for behavior i.e. > punishment. Time out is not punishment and if it is used as a consequence > of repeated negative behavior will have precisely the result this > mother is having. It is useful if it breaks the negative action — and > it may be sufficient if calling a halt to negative behavior is enough > to end that behavior. For many kids, especially those who have strong > relationships with their parents, that is all it takes. A child who > acts out while in time out is to be expected however if time out is conceived > of as a negative consequence i.e. punishment and is used continously > for tha tpurpose. If the child persists in negative behavior, the parent > needs to examine her whole pattern of managing that child i.e. note > what seems to lead to this behavior BUT there also needs to be some > negative consequences i.e. punishment for that behavior. > Of course, one is better off if one can create an environment where being > good leads to positive consequences i.e. reinforcement. But once one is > in this sort of negative spiral, that is not likely to happen without Mom > getting some good instruction in behavior management. > — > Grub*67 (remove *no-spam* when replying) > "Some people think we put that we put our life on hold to raise a child > but we know that to hold a child is life" > > > Hello! My daughter, Christina is 4. We have been using > > > time-out for her, making her sit in a chair for 4 > > > minutes. It is turning into hell for us and probably > > > her too. She doesn’t seem to understand that if she > > > stays in it, she can get out after 4 minutes, and if > > > she keeps getting up and running away, it will be > > > longer. We set a clock to go off after the 4 minutes so > > > she’ll know when it is time. > > > She is very strong-willed and I don’t know what else to > > > do. Every time she will hit her sister, or tell us no > > > when we tell her to do something, we tell her to sit in > > > the chair. She will scream and cry and will NOT get in > > > the chair, and we have to hold her physically in the > > > chair. She kicks us, hits us, scratches us, and screams > > > at us the whole time, and it is not turning out to be > > > effective for her. > > Time out is NOT punishment — it is merely a way to stop > > a situation for a child to cool off. Hitting one’s sister > > repeatedly deserves punishment. You need to figure out what > > she cares about and start punishing repeated misbehavior — > > things as simple as no TV, or not getting to participate > > in someting she enjoyus. > > > It is tearing my nerves up. I can think of nothing else > > > to do. We’ve tried the corner, but we have to stand > > > behind her and hold her in it, and even then she climbs > > > up the wall with her legs. We’ve tried just sitting on > > > the couch-she runs away. We’ve tried putting her in her > > > room but she plays or runs out. > > You may need to literally hold her in place till she calms > > down. but in any case, disobedience i.e. running out of the > > room should earn further punishnment. > > You probably ought to see a councilor who specializes in behavioral > > therapy and set up some kind of behavior management system > > for this child. > > If you can’t get it under control, there will be hell to pay when > > she is bigger. some kids are really tough to manage — and > > some expert advice on how to structure behavior management can > > be helpful. > > > My mom just screamed and hit us with a belt everytime > > > we did something wrong growing up and I don’t believe > > > in doing that. > > Good for you. But at the same time, you didn’t see any positive > > behavior management modeled in your home situation — so get > > some help with this. > > > I’m planning on starting homeschooling soon but I’m not > > > sure I can do it with Christina when I can’t even take > > > control of the situation. I’m scared now that I’m going > > > to mess up because of that. > > > If anyone has any suggestions please let me hear (read) > > > some. I have no idea of what to do now. > > > If my relatives have her, she is fine. She obeys them > > > with no problem. It is only at home that she’s like > > > this. And when we go out in public, she’s not as bad as > > > she is at home. It is worse at night, too, while we are > > > trying to brush their teeth and give them a bath. I > > > dread bedtime because I know it will be a giant > > > struggle. > > Why homeschool when she functions better elsewhere? Unless you > > can learn some techniques for managing this child, you would > > really be nuts to create continous warfare at home. The fact > > that she behaves with others suggests that there is nothing wrong > > with this child to make her impossible to manage — it really > > is a matter of parenting skills — so see if you can get some help. > > I’ll bet you can turn it around in 6 mos with some assistance and > > THEN think about whether homeschooling is the best thing for you > > and for her. sometimes it really does take an outside observer to > > help us figure out how to deal with a situation like this.
Response:
> There is a diferrence between *punishment* & * discipline.* > Marie there are some most excellent words of wisdom on this ng. I was going > to put in my 2 cents b/c my son is simular to your daughter, but it is not > needed. I only hope you ignore the negative replies, do what sounds positive > to you and good luck! > Ginny
There is a difference between punishment and beating the socks off a kid too — but there is no effective discipline for an out of control child that does not require negative consequences for behavior i.e. punishment. Time out is not punishment and if it is used as a consequence of repeated negative behavior will have precisely the result this mother is having. It is useful if it breaks the negative action — and it may be sufficient if calling a halt to negative behavior is enough to end that behavior. For many kids, especially those who have strong relationships with their parents, that is all it takes. A child who acts out while in time out is to be expected however if time out is conceived of as a negative consequence i.e. punishment and is used continously for tha tpurpose. If the child persists in negative behavior, the parent needs to examine her whole pattern of managing that child i.e. note what seems to lead to this behavior BUT there also needs to be some negative consequences i.e. punishment for that behavior. Of course, one is better off if one can create an environment where being good leads to positive consequences i.e. reinforcement. But once one is in this sort of negative spiral, that is not likely to happen without Mom getting some good instruction in behavior management. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Grub*67 (remove *no-spam* when replying) > "Some people think we put that we put our life on hold to raise a child > but we know that to hold a child is life" > > Hello! My daughter, Christina is 4. We have been using > > time-out for her, making her sit in a chair for 4 > > minutes. It is turning into hell for us and probably > > her too. She doesn’t seem to understand that if she > > stays in it, she can get out after 4 minutes, and if > > she keeps getting up and running away, it will be > > longer. We set a clock to go off after the 4 minutes so > > she’ll know when it is time. > > She is very strong-willed and I don’t know what else to > > do. Every time she will hit her sister, or tell us no > > when we tell her to do something, we tell her to sit in > > the chair. She will scream and cry and will NOT get in > > the chair, and we have to hold her physically in the > > chair. She kicks us, hits us, scratches us, and screams > > at us the whole time, and it is not turning out to be > > effective for her. > Time out is NOT punishment — it is merely a way to stop > a situation for a child to cool off. Hitting one’s sister > repeatedly deserves punishment. You need to figure out what > she cares about and start punishing repeated misbehavior — > things as simple as no TV, or not getting to participate > in someting she enjoyus. > > It is tearing my nerves up. I can think of nothing else > > to do. We’ve tried the corner, but we have to stand > > behind her and hold her in it, and even then she climbs > > up the wall with her legs. We’ve tried just sitting on > > the couch-she runs away. We’ve tried putting her in her > > room but she plays or runs out. > You may need to literally hold her in place till she calms > down. but in any case, disobedience i.e. running out of the > room should earn further punishnment. > You probably ought to see a councilor who specializes in behavioral > therapy and set up some kind of behavior management system > for this child. > If you can’t get it under control, there will be hell to pay when > she is bigger. some kids are really tough to manage — and > some expert advice on how to structure behavior management can > be helpful. > > My mom just screamed and hit us with a belt everytime > > we did something wrong growing up and I don’t believe > > in doing that. > Good for you. But at the same time, you didn’t see any positive > behavior management modeled in your home situation — so get > some help with this. > > I’m planning on starting homeschooling soon but I’m not > > sure I can do it with Christina when I can’t even take > > control of the situation. I’m scared now that I’m going > > to mess up because of that. > > If anyone has any suggestions please let me hear (read) > > some. I have no idea of what to do now. > > If my relatives have her, she is fine. She obeys them > > with no problem. It is only at home that she’s like > > this. And when we go out in public, she’s not as bad as > > she is at home. It is worse at night, too, while we are > > trying to brush their teeth and give them a bath. I > > dread bedtime because I know it will be a giant > > struggle. > Why homeschool when she functions better elsewhere? Unless you > can learn some techniques for managing this child, you would > really be nuts to create continous warfare at home. The fact > that she behaves with others suggests that there is nothing wrong > with this child to make her impossible to manage — it really > is a matter of parenting skills — so see if you can get some help. > I’ll bet you can turn it around in 6 mos with some assistance and > THEN think about whether homeschooling is the best thing for you > and for her. sometimes it really does take an outside observer to > help us figure out how to deal with a situation like this.
Response:
>Behaviorism has a lot to offer when a child is out of control. Ideally >one doesn’t get to that point and most kids don’t need stickers, prizes >and points to function — but a seriously disturbed home relationship >can sometimes be normalized so that other aspects of relationship >building and development of self discipline can occur.
Behaviorism is based on the principal that *all* behavior is a reaction to environmental stimulus. It can be useful in *some* cases to return a child to a place where they can begin to listen and communicate with some facility, but it does not teach children discipline because it holds the motivation *outside* the child. It has been used to justify the folk wisdom about punishment and rewards because Skinner had scientific standing. However, it would pay people to look at the newest research and to think about the fact that Skinner and other psychologists who used the technique were generalizing from experiments with lab animals. Behaviorism is what you use to *train* animals (and, of course, you can *train* humans also), but real learning takes time, effort and different methods. We want to *educate* our children, not just *train* them to behave. Dorothy
Response:
I can’t say that I agree with restraining the child or using forceful physical methods. Eventually. when she gets bigger and stronger, she’ll think that’s the answer. Have you tried not giving her the attention for these outbursts? Some children like any kind of attention, even negative. Maybe try to verbally correct the wrong doing and then distancing yourself and your other child. Not actually leaving of course, but not give her the attention she seems to thrive on. My son was no where near this stage but there were a few times he would refuse to sit for his tie out. I only told him once and then let him go. Then I would let him know with my attitude that I was not happy with his behavior. I would direct my attention to other things or to his sister. Sometimes kids push buttons just because they can. You fighting against your daughter or getting frustrated with her actions is what she seems to be feeding on. Choose the battles carefully and don’t let them become battles. It’s only a suggestion but worth a try. Good luck. Mainmom to Tara (13) Joseph (4) Sierra (3)
Response:
Oh let me rephrase & say that he was similar for a period between 2 & 3 years. He is really listening, cooperating & following direction now. I made allot of mistakes w/ my 1st born like giving too many chances for inappropriate behavior. I felt like a failure too but asked for help & received the input I needed. I didn’t like hearing that I was being inconsistent ( my BF pointed that out to me) but since I’ve looked at myself, I have improved my parenting skills my sons’ behavior has changed & we are all happier. BTW the book that Dorothy suggested is excellent reading material, someone had suggested it for me also .Ryan is still strong willed, full of energy & has his moments but he has self discipline, empathy & respect for others, shares, is super polite & friendly. I am proud of him & don’t feel like an inadequate mother any more. Hope this helps having someone relate. — Grub*67 (remove *no-spam* when replying) "Some people think we put that we put our life on hold to raise a child but we know that to hold a child is life"
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There is a difference between *punishment* & * discipline.* > Marie there are some most excellent words of wisdom on this ng. I was going > to put in my 2 cents b/c my son is similar to your daughter, but it is not > needed. I only hope you ignore the negative replies, do what sounds positive > to you and good luck! > Ginny > — > Grub*67 (remove *no-spam* when replying) > "Some people think we put that we put our life on hold to raise a child > but we know that to hold a child is life" > > Hello! My daughter, Christina is 4. We have been using > > time-out for her, making her sit in a chair for 4 > > minutes. It is turning into hell for us and probably > > her too. She doesn’t seem to understand that if she > > stays in it, she can get out after 4 minutes, and if > > she keeps getting up and running away, it will be > > longer. We set a clock to go off after the 4 minutes so > > she’ll know when it is time. > > She is very strong-willed and I don’t know what else to > > do. Every time she will hit her sister, or tell us no > > when we tell her to do something, we tell her to sit in > > the chair. She will scream and cry and will NOT get in > > the chair, and we have to hold her physically in the > > chair. She kicks us, hits us, scratches us, and screams > > at us the whole time, and it is not turning out to be > > effective for her. > Time out is NOT punishment — it is merely a way to stop > a situation for a child to cool off. Hitting one’s sister > repeatedly deserves punishment. You need to figure out what > she cares about and start punishing repeated misbehavior — > things as simple as no TV, or not getting to participate > in someting she enjoyus. > > It is tearing my nerves up. I can think of nothing else > > to do. We’ve tried the corner, but we have to stand > > behind her and hold her in it, and even then she climbs > > up the wall with her legs. We’ve tried just sitting on > > the couch-she runs away. We’ve tried putting her in her > > room but she plays or runs out. > You may need to literally hold her in place till she calms > down. but in any case, disobedience i.e. running out of the > room should earn further punishnment. > You probably ought to see a councilor who specializes in behavioral > therapy and set up some kind of behavior management system > for this child. > If you can’t get it under control, there will be hell to pay when > she is bigger. some kids are really tough to manage — and > some expert advice on how to structure behavior management can > be helpful. > > My mom just screamed and hit us with a belt everytime > > we did something wrong growing up and I don’t believe > > in doing that. > Good for you. But at the same time, you didn’t see any positive > behavior management modeled in your home situation — so get > some help with this. > > I’m planning on starting homeschooling soon but I’m not > > sure I can do it with Christina when I can’t even take > > control of the situation. I’m scared now that I’m going > > to mess up because of that. > > If anyone has any suggestions please let me hear (read) > > some. I have no idea of what to do now. > > If my relatives have her, she is fine. She obeys them > > with no problem. It is only at home that she’s like > > this. And when we go out in public, she’s not as bad as > > she is at home. It is worse at night, too, while we are > > trying to brush their teeth and give them a bath. I > > dread bedtime because I know it will be a giant > > struggle. > Why homeschool when she functions better elsewhere? Unless you > can learn some techniques for managing this child, you would > really be nuts to create continous warfare at home. The fact > that she behaves with others suggests that there is nothing wrong > with this child to make her impossible to manage — it really > is a matter of parenting skills — so see if you can get some help. > I’ll bet you can turn it around in 6 mos with some assistance and > THEN think about whether homeschooling is the best thing for you > and for her. sometimes it really does take an outside observer to > help us figure out how to deal with a situation like this.
Response:
There is a diferrence between *punishment* & * discipline.* Marie there are some most excellent words of wisdom on this ng. I was going to put in my 2 cents b/c my son is simular to your daughter, but it is not needed. I only hope you ignore the negative replies, do what sounds positive to you and good luck! Ginny — Grub*67 (remove *no-spam* when replying) "Some people think we put that we put our life on hold to raise a child but we know that to hold a child is life"
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello! My daughter, Christina is 4. We have been using > time-out for her, making her sit in a chair for 4 > minutes. It is turning into hell for us and probably > her too. She doesn’t seem to understand that if she > stays in it, she can get out after 4 minutes, and if > she keeps getting up and running away, it will be > longer. We set a clock to go off after the 4 minutes so > she’ll know when it is time. > She is very strong-willed and I don’t know what else to > do. Every time she will hit her sister, or tell us no > when we tell her to do something, we tell her to sit in > the chair. She will scream and cry and will NOT get in > the chair, and we have to hold her physically in the > chair. She kicks us, hits us, scratches us, and screams > at us the whole time, and it is not turning out to be > effective for her. > Time out is NOT punishment — it is merely a way to stop > a situation for a child to cool off. Hitting one’s sister > repeatedly deserves punishment. You need to figure out what > she cares about and start punishing repeated misbehavior — > things as simple as no TV, or not getting to participate > in someting she enjoyus. > It is tearing my nerves up. I can think of nothing else > to do. We’ve tried the corner, but we have to stand > behind her and hold her in it, and even then she climbs > up the wall with her legs. We’ve tried just sitting on > the couch-she runs away. We’ve tried putting her in her > room but she plays or runs out. > You may need to literally hold her in place till she calms > down. but in any case, disobedience i.e. running out of the > room should earn further punishnment. > You probably ought to see a councilor who specializes in behavioral > therapy and set up some kind of behavior management system > for this child. > If you can’t get it under control, there will be hell to pay when > she is bigger. some kids are really tough to manage — and > some expert advice on how to structure behavior management can > be helpful. > My mom just screamed and hit us with a belt everytime > we did something wrong growing up and I don’t believe > in doing that. > Good for you. But at the same time, you didn’t see any positive > behavior management modeled in your home situation — so get > some help with this. > I’m planning on starting homeschooling soon but I’m not > sure I can do it with Christina when I can’t even take > control of the situation. I’m scared now that I’m going > to mess up because of that. > If anyone has any suggestions please let me hear (read) > some. I have no idea of what to do now. > If my relatives have her, she is fine. She obeys them > with no problem. It is only at home that she’s like > this. And when we go out in public, she’s not as bad as > she is at home. It is worse at night, too, while we are > trying to brush their teeth and give them a bath. I > dread bedtime because I know it will be a giant > struggle. > Why homeschool when she functions better elsewhere? Unless you > can learn some techniques for managing this child, you would > really be nuts to create continous warfare at home. The fact > that she behaves with others suggests that there is nothing wrong > with this child to make her impossible to manage — it really > is a matter of parenting skills — so see if you can get some help. > I’ll bet you can turn it around in 6 mos with some assistance and > THEN think about whether homeschooling is the best thing for you > and for her. sometimes it really does take an outside observer to > help us figure out how to deal with a situation like this.
Response:
She has a real good point. Stickers, special time with you [alone], and other rewards you know that she will go for could be used for going through a particular activity, morning, afternoon, evening, without needing a time out. At her age she should probably be able to do that on most days. – Aula
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> First off, you are NOT a failure. While it is our role as parents to guide > and counsel our children, it is not always possible to do so in the manner > we thought was the most effective. > One of the things I can think of is to stop concentrating on STOPPING > behaviors and concentrate on REWARDING good behaviors. This is one > technique taught in behavior modification programs. The aim is to boost up > self esteem by noticing good deeds downplaying unacceptable or undesired > behaviors. Sometimes we get so involved in correcting a behavior that we > forget to notice the good behavior, sending the message that only bad > behavior is worth noticing. And some children may get the message that THEY > are bad and simply not even try to behave properly. > A simple reward system with stickers or smileys might do the job. Keeping > special times just for her might also help. Her behavior might simply be > due to a need for attention. And the time-outs are apparently not working. > You could try using the time outs only to stop really unacceptable > behaavior, like hitting her sibling, and for shorter periods. Instead of a > chair, we send our children to their rooms, where they are not restricted > from activities (neither of them have a TV in their room), but where they > can calm down. And so we can calm down too. > — > Danielle, > Maman to Marc-Andre – May 22, 1991 and Genevieve – Dec. 18, 1995 > Writing from Canada > Parent-L Birth secretary > Visit my new web-page, view new pics of the kids, and, please, sign my > guest-book!! http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/home.html > My new Special Education page: > http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/canspec.html > My ICQ # is 6463692
Response:
> I feel like a failure as a mother. Aren’t we supposed > to teach them to mind us? I’ve also tried overlooking > certain things so we can focus on one action at a time, > and it makes it worse. I don’t expect her to be an > angel, but I can’t see letting her get away with > EVERYTHING. Just telling her not to do something > doesn’t work.
First off, you are NOT a failure. While it is our role as parents to guide and counsel our children, it is not always possible to do so in the manner we thought was the most effective. One of the things I can think of is to stop concentrating on STOPPING behaviors and concentrate on REWARDING good behaviors. This is one technique taught in behavior modification programs. The aim is to boost up self esteem by noticing good deeds downplaying unacceptable or undesired behaviors. Sometimes we get so involved in correcting a behavior that we forget to notice the good behavior, sending the message that only bad behavior is worth noticing. And some children may get the message that THEY are bad and simply not even try to behave properly. A simple reward system with stickers or smileys might do the job. Keeping special times just for her might also help. Her behavior might simply be due to a need for attention. And the time-outs are apparently not working. You could try using the time outs only to stop really unacceptable behaavior, like hitting her sibling, and for shorter periods. Instead of a chair, we send our children to their rooms, where they are not restricted from activities (neither of them have a TV in their room), but where they can calm down. And so we can calm down too. — Danielle, Maman to Marc-Andre – May 22, 1991 and Genevieve – Dec. 18, 1995 Writing from Canada Parent-L Birth secretary Visit my new web-page, view new pics of the kids, and, please, sign my guest-book!! http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/home.html My new Special Education page: http://members.tripod.com/~dchenier/canspec.html My ICQ # is 6463692
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> But, > do remember in all of this, she does know how to behave because she does it > elsewhere. Alot of folks let it all hang out at home, with the people they > care about the most. She trusts you enough to act badly, believing that you > will clean up any resultant mess [physical, emotional, whatever].
I just wanted to reinforce this last bit. My theory on why children are worse at home than away is this: They know that their parents love them unconditionally. They know that Mom will still love them no matter what they do or how badly they act. They don’t know that about others with whom they may visit, so they behave in a way that will inspire others to love them too. I know it would sound weird to anyone besides another parent. But that has always made me feel better about my kids. When they are really being rotten at home, I just think about what I said above and it allows me to keep a cool head while dealing with bad behavior. Now, I am in NO WAY saying don’t show your daughter love and affection thinking that doing so will improve her behavior. (Just wanted to clarify that!) Both of my children are very strong willed too. And we have had our days around here that were less than idyllic. You have gotten a lot of good suggestions. I would also like to second the suggestion of finding something other than time out. It is obviously not working for you. Something that worked with my daughter when she was almost 3. She had developed a habit of hitting at day care. It started out as self-defense (there was a biter in residence too) but quickly she found it to work for all sorts of things. It had gotten to the point that she was hitting without any provocation, on a daily basis. I got a rubber stamp of a smiley face and an ink pad of hot pink ink. (My daughter chose both at the store.) I took them to the sitter’s house. And each day we told my daughter that if she could go all day without hitting anyone, she would get a smiley face. It took a few days. Each time she would hit, she would have a time out (that worked with her, for calming down) and it was explained that she could not have a smiley face that day. On the days that she came home with a smiley face, she got **one** piece of orange slice candy and heaps of praise. It was not long at all that she came home every day with a smiley. She would very proudly show it off to us when we all got home. You might want to start off with smaller units of time. For example, explain to Christina that she wonderful) if she can go all the way till lunch time without hitting her sister. Then if she makes it, give her her reward. As you give it to her, tell her how proud you are that she was able to control herself. And then tell her that if she can make it clear till Dinner time/bedtime she up to the whole day. We all like to be rewarded for good deeds and that is what you are trying to reinforce. With my two very strong willed little people reinforcing the good behavior has always worked much better than landing with both feet on the bad behavior. Hitting is one of those behaviors that I have found to be easy to correct this way. I hope that helps. Just remind yourself that you are the best mother you know how to be. You have seen for yourself that what you are doing isn’t working and you are smart enough to ask for help. Go get a _____ for yourself. You could use one I am sure. My best, Sharon
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Marie, You have a frustrating situation on your hands and it sounds like you are beginning to feel like everyone else can handle your daughter better than you can. I am not certain that my suggestions will fix things, but let me offer them for what they are worth. People tend to act a certain way because they have learned that they get something out of doing it. It would appear possible that Christina is resisting time out, standing in corners, etc., because she is getting something which she perceives as more rewarding than complying and moving on with things. You need to figure out what that thing is. With many parents of young children this can be that they are getting a whole bunch of attention [just think, you are paying attention to the hitter instead of the hittee, among other things]. Is her reaction to being placed in time out [etc] bringing you to the point that you talk alot to her, perhaps raise your voice, and spend alot of time [albeit supposedly "negative" attention] with her? Look for the constant theme across the situations at home where she is refusing to cooperate with you. Another possibility has been raised: she may feel that you are not in charge. If you find that you are raising your voice or using alot of words to correct her, try using a very quiet monotone type of voice and simply reiterate what you said before with no change in vocal pitch, tone, words. [No emotional reaction received, in other words.] A good trick when she is starting to escalate can be to literally raise your hand like a policeman stopping traffic and say firmly and loudly enough to be heard "Stop" , pause until you are certain that you arrested her attention, and then quietly tell her to sit in the chair [whatever] for X amount of time. You may have to start with actually rewarding the time out completion [seems counterproductive, doesn't it!] by telling her something like she can have an animal cracker [one!] or sit and do some short activity that you know she enjoys with you, after sitting still for one minute. When you have her sitting still [not necessarily quietly] for one minute, then tell her that she has to be quiet and sit still for the one minute to get the item. When that is working, start lengthening your time period until you get to the four minute mark [your current goal, I take it]. Make the cookies start appearing intermittently rather than every time [fading out the reward]. Start processing with her why she was asked to sit down and what she could do differently next time. It would not hurt to actually find a few times when she is doing well and is alone with you and practice the time out and reward thing before instituting it. This way she would know what to expect and you might well move rapidly to the four minute mark sitting still and quietly. These are only suggestions [YMMV] and the suggestion about having an assessment completed by a behavioral analyst is much more likely to rapidly pinpoint what is the real reward she is deriving from this behavior. But, do remember in all of this, she does know how to behave because she does it elsewhere. Alot of folks let it all hang out at home, with the people they care about the most. She trusts you enough to act badly, believing that you will clean up any resultant mess [physical, emotional, whatever]. All you need to do is find the tool in your bag of tricks that works with this child, since each child is different. When you do, things should get smoother. Do not give up on the homeschooling at this point. There is a whole lot you can do to set you and Christina up for a successful, enjoyable experience. Good luck. – Aula – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– Newsgroups: alt.parenting.solutions Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 1999 3:16 PM > Hello! My daughter, Christina is 4. We have been using > time-out for her, making her sit in a chair for 4 > minutes. It is turning into hell for us and probably > her too. She doesn’t seem to understand that if she > stays in it, she can get out after 4 minutes, and if > she keeps getting up and running away, it will be > longer. We set a clock to go off after the 4 minutes so > she’ll know when it is time. > She is very strong-willed and I don’t know what else to > do. Every time she will hit her sister, or tell us no > when we tell her to do something, we tell her to sit in > the chair. She will scream and cry and will NOT get in > the chair, and we have to hold her physically in the > chair. She kicks us, hits us, scratches us, and screams > at us the whole time, and it is not turning out to be > effective for her. > It is tearing my nerves up. I can think of nothing else > to do. We’ve tried the corner, but we have to stand > behind her and hold her in it, and even then she climbs > up the wall with her legs. We’ve tried just sitting on > the couch-she runs away. We’ve tried putting her in her > room but she plays or runs out. > I feel like a failure as a mother. Aren’t we supposed > to teach them to mind us? I’ve also tried overlooking > certain things so we can focus on one action at a time, > and it makes it worse. I don’t expect her to be an > angel, but I can’t see letting her get away with > EVERYTHING. Just telling her not to do something > doesn’t work. > My mom just screamed and hit us with a belt everytime > we did something wrong growing up and I don’t believe > in doing that. > I’m planning on starting homeschooling soon but I’m not > sure I can do it with Christina when I can’t even take > control of the situation. I’m scared now that I’m going > to mess up because of that. > If anyone has any suggestions please let me hear (read) > some. I have no idea of what to do now. > If my relatives have her, she is fine. She obeys them > with no problem. It is only at home that she’s like > this. And when we go out in public, she’s not as bad as > she is at home. It is worse at night, too, while we are > trying to brush their teeth and give them a bath. I > dread bedtime because I know it will be a giant > struggle. > Thanks > Marie > www.freeyellow.com/members6/mommydowis/index.htm
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hello! My daughter, Christina is 4. We have been using > time-out for her, making her sit in a chair for 4 > minutes. It is turning into hell for us and probably > her too. She doesn’t seem to understand that if she > stays in it, she can get out after 4 minutes, and if > she keeps getting up and running away, it will be > longer. We set a clock to go off after the 4 minutes so > she’ll know when it is time. > She is very strong-willed and I don’t know what else to > do. Every time she will hit her sister, or tell us no > when we tell her to do something, we tell her to sit in > the chair. She will scream and cry and will NOT get in > the chair, and we have to hold her physically in the > chair. She kicks us, hits us, scratches us, and screams > at us the whole time, and it is not turning out to be > effective for her.
Time out is NOT punishment — it is merely a way to stop a situation for a child to cool off. Hitting one’s sister repeatedly deserves punishment. You need to figure out what she cares about and start punishing repeated misbehavior — things as simple as no TV, or not getting to participate in someting she enjoyus. > It is tearing my nerves up. I can think of nothing else > to do. We’ve tried the corner, but we have to stand > behind her and hold her in it, and even then she climbs > up the wall with her legs. We’ve tried just sitting on > the couch-she runs away. We’ve tried putting her in her > room but she plays or runs out.
You may need to literally hold her in place till she calms down. but in any case, disobedience i.e. running out of the room should earn further punishnment. You probably ought to see a councilor who specializes in behavioral therapy and set up some kind of behavior management system for this child. If you can’t get it under control, there will be hell to pay when she is bigger. some kids are really tough to manage — and some expert advice on how to structure behavior management can be helpful. > My mom just screamed and hit us with a belt everytime > we did something wrong growing up and I don’t believe > in doing that.
Good for you. But at the same time, you didn’t see any positive behavior management modeled in your home situation — so get some help with this. > I’m planning on starting homeschooling soon but I’m not > sure I can do it with Christina when I can’t even take > control of the situation. I’m scared now that I’m going > to mess up because of that. > If anyone has any suggestions please let me hear (read) > some. I have no idea of what to do now. > If my relatives have her, she is fine. She obeys them > with no problem. It is only at home that she’s like > this. And when we go out in public, she’s not as bad as > she is at home. It is worse at night, too, while we are > trying to brush their teeth and give them a bath. I > dread bedtime because I know it will be a giant > struggle.
Why homeschool when she functions better elsewhere? Unless you can learn some techniques for managing this child, you would really be nuts to create continous warfare at home. The fact that she behaves with others suggests that there is nothing wrong with this child to make her impossible to manage — it really is a matter of parenting skills — so see if you can get some help. I’ll bet you can turn it around in 6 mos with some assistance and THEN think about whether homeschooling is the best thing for you and for her. sometimes it really does take an outside observer to help us figure out how to deal with a situation like this.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m not a mom, but certainly did childcare for many years. With parents >unavailable, my livelyhood depended on seeing to it that the kids remained >civilized and polite. > And of course you used physical restraints and strapped them to chairs. > Do this in a child care center and you will be fired. > Now many centers do use rewards because the whole society is based > on the Skinnerian Principal that we are motivated externally. Of course, > the newest research actually shows that even external rewards are not > producing self-motivated children. But I suppose it depends on your GOALS > in child rearing. > Mine involved helping my children to become self-disciplined, > self-regulating > adults who could solve problems on their own and figure out how to get their > needs met without conflict, but maybe yours would be different. This is > done > pretty much without physical or emotional punishment or material rewards. > Dorothy
Behaviorism has a lot to offer when a child is out of control. Ideally one doesn’t get to that point and most kids don’t need stickers, prizes and points to function — but a seriously disturbed home relationship can sometimes be normalized so that other aspects of relationship building and development of self discipline can occur.
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As Amanda put it…my 0.02 is – just remember to take a breather when possible. The angrier you get the more the child perceives it and continues…I think. Just Breathe! and maybe the both of you will survive this Good Luck!!!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello! My daughter, Christina is 4. We have been using > time-out for her, making her sit in a chair for 4 > minutes. It is turning into hell for us and probably > her too. She doesn’t seem to understand that if she > stays in it, she can get out after 4 minutes, and if > she keeps getting up and running away, it will be > longer. We set a clock to go off after the 4 minutes so > she’ll know when it is time. > She is very strong-willed and I don’t know what else to > do. Every time she will hit her sister, or tell us no > when we tell her to do something, we tell her to sit in > the chair. She will scream and cry and will NOT get in > the chair, and we have to hold her physically in the > chair. She kicks us, hits us, scratches us, and screams > at us the whole time, and it is not turning out to be > effective for her. > It is tearing my nerves up. I can think of nothing else > to do. We’ve tried the corner, but we have to stand > behind her and hold her in it, and even then she climbs > up the wall with her legs. We’ve tried just sitting on > the couch-she runs away. We’ve tried putting her in her > room but she plays or runs out. > I feel like a failure as a mother. Aren’t we supposed > to teach them to mind us? I’ve also tried overlooking > certain things so we can focus on one action at a time, > and it makes it worse. I don’t expect her to be an > angel, but I can’t see letting her get away with > EVERYTHING. Just telling her not to do something > doesn’t work. > My mom just screamed and hit us with a belt everytime > we did something wrong growing up and I don’t believe > in doing that. > I’m planning on starting homeschooling soon but I’m not > sure I can do it with Christina when I can’t even take > control of the situation. I’m scared now that I’m going > to mess up because of that. > If anyone has any suggestions please let me hear (read) > some. I have no idea of what to do now. > If my relatives have her, she is fine. She obeys them > with no problem. It is only at home that she’s like > this. And when we go out in public, she’s not as bad as > she is at home. It is worse at night, too, while we are > trying to brush their teeth and give them a bath. I > dread bedtime because I know it will be a giant > struggle. > Thanks > Marie > www.freeyellow.com/members6/mommydowis/index.htm
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I’m not a mom, but certainly did childcare for many years. With parents unavailable, my livelyhood depended on seeing to it that the kids remained civilized and polite. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Marie, ignore Elaine. She has no children and with her >recent posts I certainly can only hope that if she does, the >old curse holds: >To Elaine "May you have a child exactly like yourself." ><snip usual from this source – if you really want to read it, go back to >Elaine’s original post> >Dorothy
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> I’m not a mom, but certainly did childcare for many years. With parents >unavailable, my livelyhood depended on seeing to it that the kids remained >civilized and polite.
And of course you used physical restraints and strapped them to chairs. Do this in a child care center and you will be fired. Now many centers do use rewards because the whole society is based on the Skinnerian Principal that we are motivated externally. Of course, the newest research actually shows that even external rewards are not producing self-motivated children. But I suppose it depends on your GOALS in child rearing. Mine involved helping my children to become self-disciplined, self-regulating adults who could solve problems on their own and figure out how to get their needs met without conflict, but maybe yours would be different. This is done pretty much without physical or emotional punishment or material rewards. Dorothy
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Marie, ignore Elaine. She has no children and with her recent posts I certainly can only hope that if she does, the old curse holds: To Elaine "May you have a child exactly like yourself."
<snip usual from this source – if you really want to read it, go back to Elaine’s original post> Dorothy
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You might also want to try involving your daughter in some decision making for her own punishments. Being strong willed, she is probably resisting the idea of you imposing your will on her more than the punishment itself. In other words, she’s struggling with her own independence in relation to her dependence on you. I would sit down with her and explain to her that’s it’s wrong to hit her sister–something that she already knows. Do it with patience and not in anger. Then try asking her what *she* thinks you should do. Most children, if given the opportunity, will be harder on themselves than the parent. She might say that she needs to go in time out…in which case you’ll just remind her that it’s the punishment she came up with on her own and she might be more likely to stay there. Or she might take away one of her own privileges, such as no treat after dinner (or something like that). By policing herself to some extent, she’ll be learning self-control. If she’s decided that her favorite doll is taken away when she hits her sister, she might be more likely to think before she strikes. If Mommy decides she sits in the corner, then that’s Mommy’s choice…she can always get up and leave. Just my .02. Amanda
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello! My daughter, Christina is 4. We have been using > time-out for her, making her sit in a chair for 4 > minutes. It is turning into hell for us and probably > her too. She doesn’t seem to understand that if she > stays in it, she can get out after 4 minutes, and if > she keeps getting up and running away, it will be > longer. We set a clock to go off after the 4 minutes so > she’ll know when it is time. > She is very strong-willed and I don’t know what else to > do. Every time she will hit her sister, or tell us no > when we tell her to do something, we tell her to sit in > the chair. She will scream and cry and will NOT get in > the chair, and we have to hold her physically in the > chair. She kicks us, hits us, scratches us, and screams > at us the whole time, and it is not turning out to be > effective for her. > It is tearing my nerves up. I can think of nothing else > to do. We’ve tried the corner, but we have to stand > behind her and hold her in it, and even then she climbs > up the wall with her legs. We’ve tried just sitting on > the couch-she runs away. We’ve tried putting her in her > room but she plays or runs out. > I feel like a failure as a mother. Aren’t we supposed > to teach them to mind us? I’ve also tried overlooking > certain things so we can focus on one action at a time, > and it makes it worse. I don’t expect her to be an > angel, but I can’t see letting her get away with > EVERYTHING. Just telling her not to do something > doesn’t work. > My mom just screamed and hit us with a belt everytime > we did something wrong growing up and I don’t believe > in doing that. > I’m planning on starting homeschooling soon but I’m not > sure I can do it with Christina when I can’t even take > control of the situation. I’m scared now that I’m going > to mess up because of that. > If anyone has any suggestions please let me hear (read) > some. I have no idea of what to do now. > If my relatives have her, she is fine. She obeys them > with no problem. It is only at home that she’s like > this. And when we go out in public, she’s not as bad as > she is at home. It is worse at night, too, while we are > trying to brush their teeth and give them a bath. I > dread bedtime because I know it will be a giant > struggle. > Thanks > Marie > www.freeyellow.com/members6/mommydowis/index.htm
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You’re bigger than she is. At this time, it’s very important for you do demonstrate that you can control physically control her outbursts. Kids find security in the fact that parents can protect them, even from themselves. Tell your daughter ONCE to go to her time out. If she refuses, or fights, pin her. Put her in an armlock, and walk her to the chair. Put a seatbelt on the chair if necessary. She fights because you have given her the idea that she can win if she fights you. Once it’s perfectly clear that fighing is futile, she will not fight. Remember to use rewards to get desired behaviors. Get Christina working for rewards. She is strong willed. If you can get her to commit that will to receiving rewards, you will be one jump ahead of the game. Bedtime for instance- Find out what reward she will work for. A story, some tv time, a video game. Tell her to go and wash. Once she’s finished she can have her reward. Do NOT allow her to have the reward anyway if she is disobedient. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello! My daughter, Christina is 4. We have been using >time-out for her, making her sit in a chair for 4 >minutes. It is turning into hell for us and probably >her too. She doesn’t seem to understand that if she >stays in it, she can get out after 4 minutes, and if >she keeps getting up and running away, it will be >longer. We set a clock to go off after the 4 minutes so >she’ll know when it is time. >She is very strong-willed and I don’t know what else to >do. Every time she will hit her sister, or tell us no >when we tell her to do something, we tell her to sit in >the chair. She will scream and cry and will NOT get in >the chair, and we have to hold her physically in the >chair. She kicks us, hits us, scratches us, and screams >at us the whole time, and it is not turning out to be >effective for her. >It is tearing my nerves up. I can think of nothing else >to do. We’ve tried the corner, but we have to stand >behind her and hold her in it, and even then she climbs >up the wall with her legs. We’ve tried just sitting on >the couch-she runs away. We’ve tried putting her in her >room but she plays or runs out. >I feel like a failure as a mother. Aren’t we supposed >to teach them to mind us? I’ve also tried overlooking >certain things so we can focus on one action at a time, >and it makes it worse. I don’t expect her to be an >angel, but I can’t see letting her get away with >EVERYTHING. Just telling her not to do something >doesn’t work. >My mom just screamed and hit us with a belt everytime >we did something wrong growing up and I don’t believe >in doing that. >I’m planning on starting homeschooling soon but I’m not >sure I can do it with Christina when I can’t even take >control of the situation. I’m scared now that I’m going >to mess up because of that. >If anyone has any suggestions please let me hear (read) >some. I have no idea of what to do now. >If my relatives have her, she is fine. She obeys them >with no problem. It is only at home that she’s like >this. And when we go out in public, she’s not as bad as >she is at home. It is worse at night, too, while we are >trying to brush their teeth and give them a bath. I >dread bedtime because I know it will be a giant >struggle. >Thanks >Marie >www.freeyellow.com/members6/mommydowis/index.htm
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>Hello! My daughter, Christina is 4. We have been using >time-out for her, making her sit in a chair for 4 >minutes. It is turning into hell for us and probably >her too. She doesn’t seem to understand that if she >stays in it, she can get out after 4 minutes, and if >she keeps getting up and running away, it will be >longer. We set a clock to go off after the 4 minutes so >she’ll know when it is time.
Certainly a timer is a good idea when you want to take yourself out of the picture in terms of timing something, but in this case – while the normal advise on timeouts is a minute for each year of age – the timeout itself is not working for your daughter, so you need a different tactic. My opinion is that timeouts are actually only of value when used in a non-punitive way for temper tantrums, allowing the child to get control without your attention and then allowing the child to determine when it ends because she has regained control of her emotions. >She is very strong-willed and I don’t know what else to >do. Every time she will hit her sister, or tell us no >when we tell her to do something, we tell her to sit in >the chair. She will scream and cry and will NOT get in >the chair, and we have to hold her physically in the >chair. She kicks us, hits us, scratches us, and screams >at us the whole time, and it is not turning out to be >effective for her.
You need to find consequences that relate to her actions and that are not necessarily punitive, but designed to teach her positive behaviors to substitute for those you dislike. How old is her sister? (Younger sibling, I assume?) Obviously you cannot allow her to hit her sister, so first of all model how she should touch her. Tell her and show her how to use gentle hands to touch the baby. When she does hit, try holding her hand and telling her that she should use the gentle hands you have demonstrated. When she is playing well without hitting notice it by saying something like "I really like the way you are playing with your sister, right now" or "You are being very gentle". (Not praise, but letting her know you are aware of the good behavior). Give her some special time with you when the baby is napping. Perhaps you can even hire a sitter and take her somewhere special or have dad stay with the baby and take her out for a special one-on-one treat. When you do this, make sure that she knows that she is special just because she is herself and that as she grows, she can do things the baby cannot do. Each discipline situation needs to be considered on an individual basis. For many possible creative solutions you can try the following website: http://www.loveandlogic.com/Pages/contents.html You may also want to read "Raising Your Spirited Child" I can’t remember the author, but someone else here will probably know and post it. >It is tearing my nerves up. I can think of nothing else >to do. We’ve tried the corner, but we have to stand >behind her and hold her in it, and even then she climbs >up the wall with her legs. We’ve tried just sitting on >the couch-she runs away. We’ve tried putting her in her >room but she plays or runs out. >I feel like a failure as a mother. Aren’t we supposed >to teach them to mind us? I’ve also tried overlooking >certain things so we can focus on one action at a time, >and it makes it worse. I don’t expect her to be an >angel, but I can’t see letting her get away with >EVERYTHING. Just telling her not to do something >doesn’t work.
Do NOT beat yourself up. You are NOT a failure. You are smart enough to be looking for solutions and that is the key here. Think carefully about your expectations of her. Pick your battles. When you micromanage, it usually backfires, so try to focus only on the big things like hitting her sister. None of us is perfect and all of us want the best for our children. >My mom just screamed and hit us with a belt everytime >we did something wrong growing up and I don’t believe >in doing that.
Good for you. But not believing in it is only a start. Because you have not had a good role model, it may be more difficult for you. Think a little about not only the methods your mom used, but the actions she punished you for. Where they really as serious as all that? And are you annoyed by the same behaviors in your daughter that your mother was annoyed at in you. If so, you need to rethink the reasons for that and remember that your daughter is an individual who is like you, but has her own set of needs and behaviors as well. >I’m planning on starting homeschooling soon but I’m not >sure I can do it with Christina when I can’t even take >control of the situation. I’m scared now that I’m going >to mess up because of that.
Here I would suggest that you first get some help with the discipline situation especially since you also have a second child. Perhaps you can find a good parenting class near you or a support group that will help. Please realize that everything you have done with your daughter was already homeschooling. Children learn to read and understand mathematics in very much the same way that they learn to walk and talk. They learn by having the material presented and exploring what they are quite naturally interested in. If you do decide to homeschool, look at the misc.education.home-school.misc newsgroup for help with any questions you have. Or subscribe to one of the various homeschooling mailrings for support. Or find a group of homeschooling parents near you who can answer your questions and help you. >If anyone has any suggestions please let me hear (read) >some. I have no idea of what to do now. >If my relatives have her, she is fine. She obeys them >with no problem. It is only at home that she’s like >this. And when we go out in public, she’s not as bad as >she is at home. It is worse at night, too, while we are >trying to brush their teeth and give them a bath. I >dread bedtime because I know it will be a giant >struggle.
Perhaps, you ought to ask your relatives what they do. Or observe her with a particular relative that you know handles her well. The techniques that this person uses might be able to be adapted to your own ways of doing things with her. But remember that often kids behave better with others because they feel safer letting out their emotions at home. That’s a good thing, not a bad one. For the bath and bedtime problem, I could ramble on with advice, but perhaps you should post some of the things you have tried in another post first. If you do then I’m sure others will have good advice and I will attempt to help also. Dorothy
Response:
Hello! My daughter, Christina is 4. We have been using time-out for her, making her sit in a chair for 4 minutes. It is turning into hell for us and probably her too. She doesn’t seem to understand that if she stays in it, she can get out after 4 minutes, and if she keeps getting up and running away, it will be longer. We set a clock to go off after the 4 minutes so she’ll know when it is time. She is very strong-willed and I don’t know what else to do. Every time she will hit her sister, or tell us no when we tell her to do something, we tell her to sit in the chair. She will scream and cry and will NOT get in the chair, and we have to hold her physically in the chair. She kicks us, hits us, scratches us, and screams at us the whole time, and it is not turning out to be effective for her. It is tearing my nerves up. I can think of nothing else to do. We’ve tried the corner, but we have to stand behind her and hold her in it, and even then she climbs up the wall with her legs. We’ve tried just sitting on the couch-she runs away. We’ve tried putting her in her room but she plays or runs out. I feel like a failure as a mother. Aren’t we supposed to teach them to mind us? I’ve also tried overlooking certain things so we can focus on one action at a time, and it makes it worse. I don’t expect her to be an angel, but I can’t see letting her get away with EVERYTHING. Just telling her not to do something doesn’t work. My mom just screamed and hit us with a belt everytime we did something wrong growing up and I don’t believe in doing that. I’m planning on starting homeschooling soon but I’m not sure I can do it with Christina when I can’t even take control of the situation. I’m scared now that I’m going to mess up because of that. If anyone has any suggestions please let me hear (read) some. I have no idea of what to do now. If my relatives have her, she is fine. She obeys them with no problem. It is only at home that she’s like this. And when we go out in public, she’s not as bad as she is at home. It is worse at night, too, while we are trying to brush their teeth and give them a bath. I dread bedtime because I know it will be a giant struggle. Thanks Marie www.freeyellow.com/members6/mommydowis/index.htm
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