Question:
On 1996 May 30 Thursday, Kelly Kyes wrote… : > In our case, we have a 4 year old who is jealous of her 8 month old : > brother. She hits him, she hits us, she deliberately does things to : > provoke us, etc., etc., etc. We have tried setting aside time to spend : > just with her; we have tried time outs; we have tried encouraging her to : > use her words to tell us how she feels … : > Do we accept that she is going to continue this, or other behavior(s) that : > we view as unacceptable? Are there alternatives? : : What *I* would do is: explain to her that you understand that she’s angry : or whatever about the baby, and give her a chance to vent that anger in a : constructive (or at least a non-destructive) way. Have her draw some : pictures of her anger, take her to the woods and let her throw raw eggs at : trees (a mother of an ADD child told me this one and she said its a great : way to vent!) and even let her tell the baby that she is angry with him : (but not hit him). Explain to her that if she hits she will sit in time : out and then encourage her to vent her anger in a way that is satisfying : to her and not destructive. Good ideas. Also, when her behavior is destructive, put her in her room and provide her with a means for venting her anger that is non-destructive. Afterward, talk with her about her anger. Don’t tell her about her anger, just keep asking questions about her anger, as if you were a reporter trying to get information for a story.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi, > Probably this appears in bits and pieces in some of the several hundred > messages on spanking, but I’d like to hear creative alternatives to > spanking. I know about time out, quiet time, holding the child, etc. > In our case, we have a 4 year old who is jealous of her 8 month old > brother. She hits him, she hits us, she deliberately does things to > provoke us, etc., etc., etc. We have tried setting aside time to spend > just with her; we have tried time outs; we have tried encouraging her to > use her words to tell us how she feels … > Do we accept that she is going to continue this, or other behavior(s) that > we view as unacceptable? Are there alternatives? > Thanks for any suggestions. > -Troy
I don’t know if I have any alternative suggestions, but if you spank her, it just might cement the idea of hitting in her head. I am lucky that my daughter did that early and got over it really quick. I did hit her back a couple of time out of reflex and I felt so guilty. She didn’t cry either time, but neither did she stop. Eventually, she did, but I am not sure what caused the cessation. Perhaps, she saw that it wasn’t getting her anywhere. Actually, she stopped around the same time her day care moved her into an older kids class (she was 2 in the 3 year class). She was separated from a little boy that used to flip between hitting her and following her around like a puppy. That might have been the cause. Is there something like that in your daughter’s life. My daughter is only 3 and an only child so I can’t relate completely, but I do think that spanking should be reserved for very last measures. My daughter does really well with timeouts to her bedroom or threats to leave the place we are. But I do not make empty threats. We will leave if she doesn’t straighten up. And she usually comes to me later to talk about it. She will apologize and tell me she won’t do that any more. Your daughter is probably jealous (which I am sure that you already knew) so I would guess that making her a part of the raising of the new baby would encourage in her a protective feeling rather than a jealous one. My daughter loves to be a "good helper." Hope you find the answers. Good luck, Linda (mom of Stepheny)
Response:
Hi, Probably this appears in bits and pieces in some of the several hundred messages on spanking, but I’d like to hear creative alternatives to spanking. I know about time out, quiet time, holding the child, etc. In our case, we have a 4 year old who is jealous of her 8 month old brother. She hits him, she hits us, she deliberately does things to provoke us, etc., etc., etc. We have tried setting aside time to spend just with her; we have tried time outs; we have tried encouraging her to use her words to tell us how she feels … Do we accept that she is going to continue this, or other behavior(s) that we view as unacceptable? Are there alternatives? Thanks for any suggestions. -Troy
Response:
: Probably this appears in bits and pieces in some of the several hundred : messages on spanking, but I’d like to hear creative alternatives to : spanking. I know about time out, quiet time, holding the child, etc. First time out, quiet time, and even holding when necessary aren’t really methods of "discipline" in most cases. Their primary purpose is to provide an opportunity for the child (or you) to catch a breath, calm down, become ready to deal with an issue, etc. While an improvement over spanking, in and of themselves, they don’t really accomplish much. : In our case, we have a 4 year old who is jealous of her 8 month old : brother. She hits him, she hits us, she deliberately does things to : provoke us, etc., etc., etc. We have tried setting aside time to spend : just with her; we have tried time outs; we have tried encouraging her to : use her words to tell us how she feels … With a four year old, I would spend a little time up fron to explain that hitting is not an appropriate method of expressing herself, and set some ground rules for what is, but is sounds like you’ve already laid that groundwork. The first consequence I would probably try is to tell her beforehand that if she doesn’t express herself appropriately (by hitting), she will have to go play by herself in her room. (Not a timeout, let her play.) When she does hit, calmly tell that she since she needs to go play in her room. Don’t lecture, don’t talk. Just follow-through. (The first time or two a fit wouldn’t be surprising. Time out or holding might be necessary. No talking/yelling/etc. *Never* give attention to a tantrum.) Then be sure to verbally and specifically notice when she does behave appropriately. Save your attention for the positive behavior. Most of the time those two approaches used in tandem will teach a child appropriate behavior. You might want to check out Positive Discipline by Jane Nelsen to generate some ideas. : Do we accept that she is going to continue this, or other behavior(s) that : we view as unacceptable? Are there alternatives? No, you shouldn’t accept unacceptable behaviors. Ever. Above was a brief alternative. Hope it helps. At least gives you some ideas to build on. Scott — | "May you live in interesting times" |
Response:
>> Do we accept that she is going to continue this, or other behavior(s) > that we view as unacceptable? Are there alternatives? > We have tried setting aside time to spend just with her; we have tried > time outs; we have tried encouraging her to use her words to tell us > how she feels … > Thanks for any suggestions.
These do sound good. In your talks with her, have you tried describing her behaviour in a neutral way, give details about what you’ve seen and heard her do and say with/to her brother, and allow her to respond, without any condemnation on your part. She won’t be willing to admit and talk about the bullying she’s doing if she knows it’s getting your blame and negative judgments. Tell her how you are fearful of how he may be hurt, that you know she is angry about him, and seems to feel jealous, and ask her what she thinks would help her? Acknowledging her feelings of jealousy, and letting her know it is ok to feel that way, , natural and normal to have such feelings, that she perhaps feels he gets more attention, etc, but not ok to hurt him . My stepson has helped us realise, at age 18, what an absolute shock it was to experience the "invasion" of his sister when he was 3 1/2, into his life where he went from having 100% attention from most of 2 adults much of the time, to having 50% of less much of the time. It was devastating to him, a terrible blow that he needed to rant and rave and have tantrums about. Could you set up a pillow, punchbag or a soft doll, even give it a likeness of her baby brother, for her to go and hit when she’s angry, frustrated and jealous, with your positive encouragement. It’s your acceptance and understanding of her feelings, and defining the clear line between hating him (ok) and attacking him (not ok in any way) that will enable her to resolve these feelings over a long time. Your approval every time she DOES NOT hit him, reminders that she did well when ….. by shouting or hitting the pillow or telling you how she felt, all should help. And the "Stand and Think" approach, removing her from her brother if/when an attack occurs to a place of safety nearby where she must stay to think until she can accept that this behaviour wasn’t ok, remember what she should have done, and acknowledge it to you with a meant promise that she won’t do that, and when you are satisfied she means what she says, allow her back near the baby to "show you she will do what she should do with her brother", whether it’s to be nice to him or to go and beat up the doll or pillow, or whatever you agree. > -TroySounds to me like you are doing all the right things. I wouldnt > suggest > anything different. Let her have her process while you continue to work > with her. Eight months is not that long yet. She will work through > it. Sounds like she has great parents!
I agree. Again I suggest the softlove and firmlove suggestions of Steve Biddulph in "More Secrets of Happy Children" as worth reading for good, practical ideas on alternatives and positive discipline/learning. — lArry M I T ‘63 |A N |N K SHERWOOD, NOTTINGHAM, ENGLAND |K
Response:
> Hi, > Probably this appears in bits and pieces in some of the several hundred > messages on spanking, but I’d like to hear creative alternatives to > spanking. I know about time out, quiet time, holding the child, etc. > In our case, we have a 4 year old who is jealous of her 8 month old > brother. She hits him, she hits us, she deliberately does things to > provoke us, etc., etc., etc. We have tried setting aside time to spend > just with her; we have tried time outs; we have tried encouraging her to > use her words to tell us how she feels … > Do we accept that she is going to continue this, or other behavior(s) that > we view as unacceptable? Are there alternatives?
No, you do not accept this behavior. I think its pretty obvious that she’s angry with the baby, though, so that probably needs to be dealt with directly. What *I* would do is: explain to her that you understand that she’s angry or whatever about the baby, and give her a chance to vent that anger in a constructive (or at least a non-destructive) way. Have her draw some pictures of her anger, take her to the woods and let her throw raw eggs at trees (a mother of an ADD child told me this one and she said its a great way to vent!) and even let her tell the baby that she is angry with him (but not hit him). Explain to her that if she hits she will sit in time out and then encourage her to vent her anger in a way that is satisfying to her and not destructive. Hope this helps. Kelly > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > -Troy > >
Response:
On 1996 May 29 Wednesday, Troy Shinbrot wrote… : In our case, we have a 4 year old who is jealous of her 8 month old : brother. She hits him, she hits us, she deliberately does things to : provoke us, etc., etc., etc. We have tried setting aside time to spend : just with her; we have tried time outs; we have tried encouraging her to : use her words to tell us how she feels … : Healthy parenting is not a simple process to learn, in my opinion. It takes a lot of research and study, like earning a university degree. In your situation, I think I would first allow her to feel angry and jealous. However, I would not allow her to mistreat the 8 month old. Instead, I would allow her to pout, express her anger to me, sulk in her room. Throughout this, I would tell her I understand how she feels, and try to console her without telling her NOT to feel that way. When her anger dissipates, I would then talk to her about how I love her. I would hold her, and rock her for a while if she were willing. I believe healthy parenting includes allowing children to feel angry, but limiting the WAY that anger is expressed to non-destructive behavior. Check into parenting seminars, workshops, classes that focus on non-corporal punishment. Also, there are a lot of books on parenting.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi, > Probably this appears in bits and pieces in some of the several hundred > messages on spanking, but I’d like to hear creative alternatives to > spanking. I know about time out, quiet time, holding the child, etc. > In our case, we have a 4 year old who is jealous of her 8 month old > brother. She hits him, she hits us, she deliberately does things to > provoke us, etc., etc., etc. We have tried setting aside time to spend > just with her; we have tried time outs; we have tried encouraging her to > use her words to tell us how she feels … > Do we accept that she is going to continue this, or other behavior(s) that > we view as unacceptable? Are there alternatives? > Thanks for any suggestions. > -TroySounds to me like you are doing all the right things. I wouldnt suggest
anything different. Let her have her process while you continue to work with her. Eight months is not that long yet. She will work through it. Sounds like she has great parents! patty
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