Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Our 7 year old daughter, Jane, is a wonderful child in most ways. She >does well in school, gets along with friends, and is respectful to >adults (except sometimes to us, her parents). >The problem is that she has a temper when dealing with us. When our >daughter was born, my wife and I made the decision to never spank her, >and so far we have not. We are beginning to rethink that decision, >and would like to hear some opinions and possible alternative ways to >discipline. >This morning, I was trying to get Jane to get up and ready for school. > She refused, so I started counting to 10, telling her I would take >away her favorite doll for a day if she wasn’t up at the count of 10. >She didn’t cooperate, so I took the doll away after counting to 10. >Jane got very angry, and started kicking me and throwing her blanket >and stuffed toys at me. I then lengthened the time her doll was taken >away to several days, and that angered her even more, causing more >kicking and throwing. My wife then held her in her lap, holding her >arms and legs, as my daughter flailed away, trying to hit and kick us. > I then threatened to spank her, and she started crying for a few >minutes and then cooperated. I did not actually spank her, and this >was the first time I had threatened to. >Every couple of months we go through this scenario. When we >discipline our daughter through taking things away, she gets violent >with us. The more we take away, the worse she gets with her hitting >and kicking. The way we have handled in the past is that my wife held >Jane until she gave up. Although that worked, it does not seem to be >a deterrant against future tantrums with hitting and kicking. I’m >starting to think that spanking might be necessary. >She never exhibits this behavior with other children or grownups; just >us. >Your comments are appreciated. >- A frustrated dad. > I gotta tell you, I think taking stuff away as a disciplinary measure > is kind of weird under these circumstances. What does her doll have to > do with not wanting to get up for school?
I have wondered this same thing many times. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> That’s just being mean to > her. I mean, if your wife doesn’t want to get up in the morning, you > don’t hide the paperback she’s reading, do you? > If she has to go to school, wake her up nicely and, if she won’t > cooperate and she’s not sick, just tell her that you have to be ready > by _____. Be cheerful and not mean; this is just what we have to do > when we get up. Sing a silly song and march around the room ("oh, how > I hate to get up in the morning), make a game out of telling the > stuffed horse that maybe, maybe he can sit next to your daughter IF he > helps her get dressed — use your imagination. Carry her around like a > big worm wrapped in a blanket and pretend to be loading her like she’s > groceries. Whatever. A lot of time you can joke them out of it without > turning things into a power struggle, and if she starts giggling you > have gotten her going in a fun way. > If everything fails, just pick out a nice outfit for her and let her > know nicely that we HAVE to get going or daddy will lose his job. She > can dress in the car if she’s determined. But if you don’t say > anything about it, she’ll get the message big time and there will be > no need to make speeches or threats. > Lynne
Response:
That was a really helpful post. I’ve been using some of the same things to get my 4-year-old going in the morning (he would sleep til 11:00 AM if I let him). But with two older brothers to drive to school, and me working now, that just can’t happen! I’ll tickle his feet, turn on the lights, the radio, or go downstairs and make breakfast and say loudly "Mmmmm! These waffles are SO GOOD! We’re gonna eat them all!" That gets him out of bed fast! I agree that taking away a favorite toy in the case is not constructive, and the best way to deal with physical acting out is to walk away and ignore it. If she damages her own property, oh well.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Our 7 year old daughter, Jane, is a wonderful child in most ways. She >does well in school, gets along with friends, and is respectful to >adults (except sometimes to us, her parents). >The problem is that she has a temper when dealing with us. When our >daughter was born, my wife and I made the decision to never spank her, >and so far we have not. We are beginning to rethink that decision, >and would like to hear some opinions and possible alternative ways to >discipline. >This morning, I was trying to get Jane to get up and ready for school. > She refused, so I started counting to 10, telling her I would take >away her favorite doll for a day if she wasn’t up at the count of 10. >She didn’t cooperate, so I took the doll away after counting to 10. >Jane got very angry, and started kicking me and throwing her blanket >and stuffed toys at me. I then lengthened the time her doll was taken >away to several days, and that angered her even more, causing more >kicking and throwing. My wife then held her in her lap, holding her >arms and legs, as my daughter flailed away, trying to hit and kick us. > I then threatened to spank her, and she started crying for a few >minutes and then cooperated. I did not actually spank her, and this >was the first time I had threatened to. >Every couple of months we go through this scenario. When we >discipline our daughter through taking things away, she gets violent >with us. The more we take away, the worse she gets with her hitting >and kicking. The way we have handled in the past is that my wife held >Jane until she gave up. Although that worked, it does not seem to be >a deterrant against future tantrums with hitting and kicking. I’m >starting to think that spanking might be necessary. >She never exhibits this behavior with other children or grownups; just >us. >Your comments are appreciated. >- A frustrated dad. > I gotta tell you, I think taking stuff away as a disciplinary measure > is kind of weird under these circumstances. What does her doll have to > do with not wanting to get up for school? That’s just being mean to > her. I mean, if your wife doesn’t want to get up in the morning, you > don’t hide the paperback she’s reading, do you? > If she has to go to school, wake her up nicely and, if she won’t > cooperate and she’s not sick, just tell her that you have to be ready > by _____. Be cheerful and not mean; this is just what we have to do > when we get up. Sing a silly song and march around the room ("oh, how > I hate to get up in the morning), make a game out of telling the > stuffed horse that maybe, maybe he can sit next to your daughter IF he > helps her get dressed — use your imagination. Carry her around like a > big worm wrapped in a blanket and pretend to be loading her like she’s > groceries. Whatever. A lot of time you can joke them out of it without > turning things into a power struggle, and if she starts giggling you > have gotten her going in a fun way. > If everything fails, just pick out a nice outfit for her and let her > know nicely that we HAVE to get going or daddy will lose his job. She > can dress in the car if she’s determined. But if you don’t say > anything about it, she’ll get the message big time and there will be > no need to make speeches or threats. > Lynne
Response:
A sure sign of desperation! hehehe
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > Is there something about the name Steve or are you the same Steve > using > a > > > different nom de plume? > > > -Aula > > Different addy, same person spewing the same junk. This new addy found > its > > way into my killfile right away. > thank you for clarifying. I’d begun to think that maybe everyone with > that > name had the same point of view. > -Aula > And now that we figured this one out, he’s using "methinks". LOL > Mary Ellen
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Our 7 year old daughter, Jane, is a wonderful child in most ways. She >does well in school, gets along with friends, and is respectful to >adults (except sometimes to us, her parents). >The problem is that she has a temper when dealing with us. When our >daughter was born, my wife and I made the decision to never spank her, >and so far we have not. We are beginning to rethink that decision, >and would like to hear some opinions and possible alternative ways to >discipline. >This morning, I was trying to get Jane to get up and ready for school. > She refused, so I started counting to 10, telling her I would take >away her favorite doll for a day if she wasn’t up at the count of 10. >She didn’t cooperate, so I took the doll away after counting to 10. >Jane got very angry, and started kicking me and throwing her blanket >and stuffed toys at me. I then lengthened the time her doll was taken >away to several days, and that angered her even more, causing more >kicking and throwing. My wife then held her in her lap, holding her >arms and legs, as my daughter flailed away, trying to hit and kick us. > I then threatened to spank her, and she started crying for a few >minutes and then cooperated. I did not actually spank her, and this >was the first time I had threatened to. >Every couple of months we go through this scenario. When we >discipline our daughter through taking things away, she gets violent >with us. The more we take away, the worse she gets with her hitting >and kicking. The way we have handled in the past is that my wife held >Jane until she gave up. Although that worked, it does not seem to be >a deterrant against future tantrums with hitting and kicking. I’m >starting to think that spanking might be necessary. >She never exhibits this behavior with other children or grownups; just >us. >Your comments are appreciated. >- A frustrated dad.
I gotta tell you, I think taking stuff away as a disciplinary measure is kind of weird under these circumstances. What does her doll have to do with not wanting to get up for school? That’s just being mean to her. I mean, if your wife doesn’t want to get up in the morning, you don’t hide the paperback she’s reading, do you? If she has to go to school, wake her up nicely and, if she won’t cooperate and she’s not sick, just tell her that you have to be ready by _____. Be cheerful and not mean; this is just what we have to do when we get up. Sing a silly song and march around the room ("oh, how I hate to get up in the morning), make a game out of telling the stuffed horse that maybe, maybe he can sit next to your daughter IF he helps her get dressed — use your imagination. Carry her around like a big worm wrapped in a blanket and pretend to be loading her like she’s groceries. Whatever. A lot of time you can joke them out of it without turning things into a power struggle, and if she starts giggling you have gotten her going in a fun way. If everything fails, just pick out a nice outfit for her and let her know nicely that we HAVE to get going or daddy will lose his job. She can dress in the car if she’s determined. But if you don’t say anything about it, she’ll get the message big time and there will be no need to make speeches or threats. Lynne
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > Is there something about the name Steve or are you the same Steve > using > a > > > different nom de plume? > > > -Aula > > Different addy, same person spewing the same junk. This new addy found > its > > way into my killfile right away. > thank you for clarifying. I’d begun to think that maybe everyone with > that > name had the same point of view. > -Aula > And now that we figured this one out, he’s using "methinks". LOL > Mary Ellen
Heh. He can’t hide for long. In order to do that, he’d have to completely change his posting style, and I doubt he’d be able to keep his real personality quiet for very long! — ~Nan~<– keep the hug n’ kiss & mail me 
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Is there something about the name Steve or are you the same Steve using > a > > different nom de plume? > > -Aula > Different addy, same person spewing the same junk. This new addy found > its > way into my killfile right away. > thank you for clarifying. I’d begun to think that maybe everyone with that > name had the same point of view. > -Aula
And now that we figured this one out, he’s using "methinks". LOL Mary Ellen
Response:
People get frustrated. So do kids. What is important is how you deal with frustration, and by holding your kid down you are teaching her nothing useful about that. What she needs is some sympathy for her frustration and some direction as to how to vent it. If you can’t find a non aggressive way that is satisfying to her – get her a big pillow or punchbag and direct her to hitting that (and only that) when she feels the need. Also consider that your child is going to have enough unavoidable frustrations in her life without you adding to them. Taking away favourite toys because a child won’t do what you ask, is an exercise in creating trouble. There are much better ways, beginning with going to the root of the misbehaviour (why does your daughter have difficulty in getting up? perhaps an earlier bedtime is in order) and ending with demonstrating that co-operation is a two way street (perhaps she will later ask you to do something for her and you will refuse). Avoid demonstrating aggression towards your daughter – you will only see it reflected back. –Lisabell – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->First, I want to thank everyone who has replied to my original post. >I really >appreciate the input, and the wide varieties of opinions expressed. >I now agree that spanking is not the answer, but it does seem to me >that there needs to be a consequence to bad behavior. For instance, >our daughter has occasionally (2 or 3 times per year) gotten >frustrated with a craft she was working on, and then threw a tantrum. >Although she doesn’t hit us during these tantrums, she does knock over >chairs, knock books out of shelves, and otherwise damage our property. >We restrain her from doing further damage during these tantrums. I >know this is overpowering her, but you can’t let someone run amuck >doing damage. >I like the idea of discussing the bad behavior with her the next day, >after we have all cooled off. But I still think there has to be a >consequence for her actions. I can’t see the harm of taking away toys >temporarily, especially during the next day after we have all cooled >off and discussed it. >Thanks again to everyone for their input.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > First, I want to thank everyone who has replied to my original post. > I really > appreciate the input, and the wide varieties of opinions expressed. > I now agree that spanking is not the answer, but it does seem to me > that there needs to be a consequence to bad behavior. For instance, > our daughter has occasionally (2 or 3 times per year) gotten > frustrated with a craft she was working on, and then threw a tantrum. > Although she doesn’t hit us during these tantrums, she does knock over > chairs, knock books out of shelves, and otherwise damage our property. > We restrain her from doing further damage during these tantrums. I > know this is overpowering her, but you can’t let someone run amuck > doing damage. > I like the idea of discussing the bad behavior with her the next day, > after we have all cooled off. But I still think there has to be a > consequence for her actions. I can’t see the harm of taking away toys > temporarily, especially during the next day after we have all cooled > off and discussed it.
You can’t see the harm. That is a correct statement. But you’re WRONG in being so blind as that. She throws a fit because YOU have abused her to the end of her rope. IF you STOP abusing her THEN and ONLY THEN will she EVEN START to GET OVER IT, and IT WILL TAKE A WHILE!! You see, YOU want to be able to stop abusing her and then expect her not to pay you back for ANYTHING that you’ve already done, and that’s one-sided and abusive!! She must wish to stop ON HER OWN, and you being the bully who should now be ashamed and apologetic, YOU should leave her whatever time she feels she needs to equalize the power balance. If you screw with her stuff again you’re just going to keep this cycle going!! Steve
Response:
> I would also add that after she did calm down, I hope you had her clean up > the mess she made during her tantrum. I would make that the consequence for > her actions rather than taking something away or spanking. The cleaning up > IS a direct consequence for her actions. If she refuses then she can’t do > anything else until it is cleaned up. No TV, no playing, no eating, etc.
That’s totally abusive. If you do that I predict she will continue to hurt you behind your back, sabotage your lives, and her own well into her teen years. Steve
Response:
> First, I want to thank everyone who has replied to my original post. > I really > appreciate the input, and the wide varieties of opinions expressed. > I now agree that spanking is not the answer, but it does seem to me > that there needs to be a consequence to bad behavior. For instance, > our daughter has occasionally (2 or 3 times per year) gotten > frustrated with a craft she was working on, and then threw a tantrum. > Although she doesn’t hit us during these tantrums, she does knock over > chairs, knock books out of shelves, and otherwise damage our property. > We restrain her from doing further damage during these tantrums. I > know this is overpowering her, but you can’t let someone run amuck > doing damage.
Have you talked to a pediatrician about her behavior? Her violent outbursts over something like doing a craft doesn’t seem like regulare behavior (I don’t want to say normal/abnormal –hate those labels). She could be very hard on herself, expecting perfection (not saying that you are insisting on perfection). My middle child would get so angry and frustrated when doing homework. She would cry and yell but not get violent. She would get so angry at herself and it broke my heart. I would constantly reassure her that everyone makes mistakes, that’s why there are erasers on the end of pencils! We had her tested in school and she does have learning disabilities. That was were her frustration came from. Once she saw herself succeed, she was less frustrated and her self esteem increased. I would also add that after she did calm down, I hope you had her clean up the mess she made during her tantrum. I would make that the consequence for her actions rather than taking something away or spanking. The cleaning up IS a direct consequence for her actions. If she refuses then she can’t do anything else until it is cleaned up. No TV, no playing, no eating, etc. > I like the idea of discussing the bad behavior with her the next day, > after we have all cooled off. But I still think there has to be a > consequence for her actions. I can’t see the harm of taking away toys > temporarily, especially during the next day after we have all cooled > off and discussed it.
As long as she understands the relationship between bad behavior = taking a toy away. If it’s discusssed ahead of time she should know and understand this. It won’t be a "surprise" when she is already angry about something and this surprise will make her even angrier and lose control. If only each child came with instructions LOL Mary Ellen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks again to everyone for their input.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> >I forgot to add this: >> >When your daughter does get ready for school without a fight, be sure to >> >praise her. Tell her that you are proud that she got up and ready for >> >school on time. Next time she is angry and doesn’t hit or kick anyone >again >> >praise her for controlling her temper. When she can’t control her anger >> >maybe she can count to 10 when she gets mad (rather than you counting and >> >then taking something away). Maybe there is one big pillow that she can >> >punch when she "loses it". She could go outside and run around the house >to >> >relieve her tension. Some other venue than the hitting and the throwing. >> >How do you and your wife express your anger, honestly? Is this something >> >she has observed? >> >Mary Ellen >> You’re not getting it. Theft is violence. If I took your stuff so you >could >> never count on having things of your own reliably it wouldn’t matter if I >> had ever hit you, you’d STILL want to smash my face!! This is why their >> daughter is hitting back, they are always acting highhandedly and taking >> her stuff so that she is provoked to attack people bigger than her! Can >you >> imagine how close to the end of her rope she has to be to do that?? That’s >> like attacking giants! So it doesn’t MATTER if they never hit her or each >> other, they are abusing and dishonoring her, and that is why she’s hitting >> back, and if they keep doing this she will simply get bigger and bigger >and >> finally punch them out or fuck up their lives intentionally with her >> sexuality when it becomes the next most obvious weapon she can use! >> They had better stop their abuse and make her understand they won’t do >that >> anymore or their lives are going to turn to shit right before their eyes >in >> the next few years! You can’t control another person of teenage, it won’t >> happen, and they need to learn this now! They have simply been taking >> unfair advantage of their size and wits so far, but that will come to a >bad >> end. >> Steve >I did get it, I said in a previous post that their daughter feels that >taking things away from her are unfounded and leads to her frustration. >However, feeling like smashing in your face and actually doing it are 2 >different things. Hitting is not to be tolerated under any circumstances. >Rather than taking things away, I think the parents should talk to her when >everyone is calm. You can reason with a 7 yr. old. I would rather see >communication than discipline. >Mary Ellen > You seem to think we live in some peculiar world where somehow hitting is > beyond the pale but stealing everything a person cares about, even holding > them down and with superior strength taking their things away from them is > somehow acceptible. I’ve got news for you, it isn’t, and people WILL > finally kill you for screwing with their life and their personal things. > This is what the wealthy have counted on to allow them to keep stealing and > not get killed for it, while they pay police to shoot people for stealing > from them. It won’t continue long, because our things ARE our life. Without > a reliable place to lay down and put the things we are working on to better > ourselves in thislife by our own estimation, people will simply decide that > nothing is worth it and that the best use of THEIR life is to fuck YOURS up > BAD! > Trying to tell kids that using force is bad when you use it against them is > futile and absurd. > Steve
I don’t know if you are responding to me or the original poster. I am confused because if you took the time to read my post, even the last line sums up my opinion, you wouldn’t be writing this as a response to *my* post. I had you in killfile and see that you changed your tag name (or whatever it’s called). You must have caught on. LOL Mary Ellen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
First, I want to thank everyone who has replied to my original post. I really appreciate the input, and the wide varieties of opinions expressed. I now agree that spanking is not the answer, but it does seem to me that there needs to be a consequence to bad behavior. For instance, our daughter has occasionally (2 or 3 times per year) gotten frustrated with a craft she was working on, and then threw a tantrum. Although she doesn’t hit us during these tantrums, she does knock over chairs, knock books out of shelves, and otherwise damage our property. We restrain her from doing further damage during these tantrums. I know this is overpowering her, but you can’t let someone run amuck doing damage. I like the idea of discussing the bad behavior with her the next day, after we have all cooled off. But I still think there has to be a consequence for her actions. I can’t see the harm of taking away toys temporarily, especially during the next day after we have all cooled off and discussed it. Thanks again to everyone for their input.
Response:
>Is there something about the name Steve or are you the same Steve using a >different nom de plume? >-Aula
You know my net address by now, don’t you? Look at your own post! Steve
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >I forgot to add this: > >When your daughter does get ready for school without a fight, be sure to > >praise her. Tell her that you are proud that she got up and ready for > >school on time. Next time she is angry and doesn’t hit or kick anyone >again > >praise her for controlling her temper. When she can’t control her anger > >maybe she can count to 10 when she gets mad (rather than you counting and > >then taking something away). Maybe there is one big pillow that she can > >punch when she "loses it". She could go outside and run around the house >to > >relieve her tension. Some other venue than the hitting and the throwing. > >How do you and your wife express your anger, honestly? Is this something > >she has observed? > >Mary Ellen > You’re not getting it. Theft is violence. If I took your stuff so you >could > never count on having things of your own reliably it wouldn’t matter if I > had ever hit you, you’d STILL want to smash my face!! This is why their > daughter is hitting back, they are always acting highhandedly and taking > her stuff so that she is provoked to attack people bigger than her! Can >you > imagine how close to the end of her rope she has to be to do that?? That’s > like attacking giants! So it doesn’t MATTER if they never hit her or each > other, they are abusing and dishonoring her, and that is why she’s hitting > back, and if they keep doing this she will simply get bigger and bigger >and > finally punch them out or fuck up their lives intentionally with her > sexuality when it becomes the next most obvious weapon she can use! > They had better stop their abuse and make her understand they won’t do >that > anymore or their lives are going to turn to shit right before their eyes >in > the next few years! You can’t control another person of teenage, it won’t > happen, and they need to learn this now! They have simply been taking > unfair advantage of their size and wits so far, but that will come to a >bad > end. > Steve >I did get it, I said in a previous post that their daughter feels that >taking things away from her are unfounded and leads to her frustration. >However, feeling like smashing in your face and actually doing it are 2 >different things. Hitting is not to be tolerated under any circumstances. >Rather than taking things away, I think the parents should talk to her when >everyone is calm. You can reason with a 7 yr. old. I would rather see >communication than discipline. >Mary Ellen
You seem to think we live in some peculiar world where somehow hitting is beyond the pale but stealing everything a person cares about, even holding them down and with superior strength taking their things away from them is somehow acceptible. I’ve got news for you, it isn’t, and people WILL finally kill you for screwing with their life and their personal things. This is what the wealthy have counted on to allow them to keep stealing and not get killed for it, while they pay police to shoot people for stealing from them. It won’t continue long, because our things ARE our life. Without a reliable place to lay down and put the things we are working on to better ourselves in thislife by our own estimation, people will simply decide that nothing is worth it and that the best use of THEIR life is to fuck YOURS up BAD! Trying to tell kids that using force is bad when you use it against them is futile and absurd. Steve
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Is there something about the name Steve or are you the same Steve using a > different nom de plume? > -Aula > Different addy, same person spewing the same junk. This new addy found its > way into my killfile right away.
thank you for clarifying. I’d begun to think that maybe everyone with that name had the same point of view. -Aula
Response:
Is there something about the name Steve or are you the same Steve using a different nom de plume? -Aula
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> Is there something about the name Steve or are you the same Steve using a > different nom de plume? > -Aula
Different addy, same person spewing the same junk. This new addy found its way into my killfile right away. — ~Nan~<– Remove XX to e-mail me
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I forgot to add this: >When your daughter does get ready for school without a fight, be sure to >praise her. Tell her that you are proud that she got up and ready for >school on time. Next time she is angry and doesn’t hit or kick anyone again >praise her for controlling her temper. When she can’t control her anger >maybe she can count to 10 when she gets mad (rather than you counting and >then taking something away). Maybe there is one big pillow that she can >punch when she "loses it". She could go outside and run around the house to >relieve her tension. Some other venue than the hitting and the throwing. >How do you and your wife express your anger, honestly? Is this something >she has observed? >Mary Ellen > You’re not getting it. Theft is violence. If I took your stuff so you could > never count on having things of your own reliably it wouldn’t matter if I > had ever hit you, you’d STILL want to smash my face!! This is why their > daughter is hitting back, they are always acting highhandedly and taking > her stuff so that she is provoked to attack people bigger than her! Can you > imagine how close to the end of her rope she has to be to do that?? That’s > like attacking giants! So it doesn’t MATTER if they never hit her or each > other, they are abusing and dishonoring her, and that is why she’s hitting > back, and if they keep doing this she will simply get bigger and bigger and > finally punch them out or fuck up their lives intentionally with her > sexuality when it becomes the next most obvious weapon she can use! > They had better stop their abuse and make her understand they won’t do that > anymore or their lives are going to turn to shit right before their eyes in > the next few years! You can’t control another person of teenage, it won’t > happen, and they need to learn this now! They have simply been taking > unfair advantage of their size and wits so far, but that will come to a bad > end. > Steve
I did get it, I said in a previous post that their daughter feels that taking things away from her are unfounded and leads to her frustration. However, feeling like smashing in your face and actually doing it are 2 different things. Hitting is not to be tolerated under any circumstances. Rather than taking things away, I think the parents should talk to her when everyone is calm. You can reason with a 7 yr. old. I would rather see communication than discipline. Mary Ellen
Response:
>I forgot to add this: >When your daughter does get ready for school without a fight, be sure to >praise her. Tell her that you are proud that she got up and ready for >school on time. Next time she is angry and doesn’t hit or kick anyone again >praise her for controlling her temper. When she can’t control her anger >maybe she can count to 10 when she gets mad (rather than you counting and >then taking something away). Maybe there is one big pillow that she can >punch when she "loses it". She could go outside and run around the house to >relieve her tension. Some other venue than the hitting and the throwing. >How do you and your wife express your anger, honestly? Is this something >she has observed? >Mary Ellen
You’re not getting it. Theft is violence. If I took your stuff so you could never count on having things of your own reliably it wouldn’t matter if I had ever hit you, you’d STILL want to smash my face!! This is why their daughter is hitting back, they are always acting highhandedly and taking her stuff so that she is provoked to attack people bigger than her! Can you imagine how close to the end of her rope she has to be to do that?? That’s like attacking giants! So it doesn’t MATTER if they never hit her or each other, they are abusing and dishonoring her, and that is why she’s hitting back, and if they keep doing this she will simply get bigger and bigger and finally punch them out or fuck up their lives intentionally with her sexuality when it becomes the next most obvious weapon she can use! They had better stop their abuse and make her understand they won’t do that anymore or their lives are going to turn to shit right before their eyes in the next few years! You can’t control another person of teenage, it won’t happen, and they need to learn this now! They have simply been taking unfair advantage of their size and wits so far, but that will come to a bad end. Steve
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Our 7 year old daughter, Jane, is a wonderful child in most ways. She > does well in school, gets along with friends, and is respectful to > adults (except sometimes to us, her parents). > The problem is that she has a temper when dealing with us. When our > daughter was born, my wife and I made the decision to never spank her, > and so far we have not. We are beginning to rethink that decision, > and would like to hear some opinions and possible alternative ways to > discipline. > This morning, I was trying to get Jane to get up and ready for school. > She refused, so I started counting to 10, telling her I would take > away her favorite doll for a day if she wasn’t up at the count of 10. > She didn’t cooperate, so I took the doll away after counting to 10. > Jane got very angry, and started kicking me and throwing her blanket > and stuffed toys at me. I then lengthened the time her doll was taken > away to several days, and that angered her even more, causing more > kicking and throwing. My wife then held her in her lap, holding her > arms and legs, as my daughter flailed away, trying to hit and kick us. > I then threatened to spank her, and she started crying for a few > minutes and then cooperated. I did not actually spank her, and this > was the first time I had threatened to. > Every couple of months we go through this scenario. When we > discipline our daughter through taking things away, she gets violent > with us. The more we take away, the worse she gets with her hitting > and kicking. The way we have handled in the past is that my wife held > Jane until she gave up. Although that worked, it does not seem to be > a deterrant against future tantrums with hitting and kicking. I’m > starting to think that spanking might be necessary. > She never exhibits this behavior with other children or grownups; just > us. >It appears that your daughter becomes frustrated and hits. *If* you are >consistently *always* using the exact same intervention and she has this >reaction only every couple weeks you have one thing to deal with – teaching >her how to deal with frustration more effectively. If, on the other hand, >you are inconsistent in application of consequences, you have a different >thing to address: your consistency. Inconsistent behavior on the part of >the parent makes it difficult for the child to know when the parent really >"means it" and respond appropriately. Evaluate what you are doing with that >in mind. >As to the frustration thing, your daughter is 7. She should not be hitting, >but frustration is not something that most children this age deal well with >1005 of the time. I suggest that you sit down, as a family, and discuss the >house rules and outline the consequences when they are not followed *and* >when they are followed. Make following the rules sound enticing. Then, >follow the prescribed consequences consistently. This usually will result >in compliance, albeit grudgingly at times, when they must be applied. >You state that you have resorted to use of physical restraint in the past. >This is not usually necessary with the normal child. If you have had to do >this your child has either not learned how to deal with frustration and >anger in most situations, you run out of your bag of tricks rapidly, or your >child has a behavior disorder and should be evaluated by a child >psychologist to determine what is wrong and how to more effectively deal >with it. To *start* spa*king as an intervention at this age would, IMO, be >similar to use of physical restraint and probably only increase the child’s >frustration and incite her to more use of aggression. Find other avenues >that tend to teach her the skills required and de-escalate her. >-Aula
No, her desire to hit comes from being abused. "Abused?" you say? Yes, indeed. If someone bigger than you kept taking your precious things away from you, even if they never hit you, you would indeed want to hit them back, and if these idiots have been trying to control her highhandedly this way then this completely explains her extreme anger with them! They are setting up the situation for her to punch them out if she gets large enough to do so, and soon, or for her to manifest ever more calculating viciousness toward them, making a surprisingly effective job of fucking their life up good!! They cannot control a 12 year old, hormones added soon to the mix, and they will discover this at their peril! How do you control her then? You do NOT! Controlling anyone’s body or property your own is not and has NEVER been your right or your responsibility! This is NOT the way to treat someone else if you expect them to love and honor your requests because they CARE about you! Then what to do if she doesn’t want to go to school? Take her side, if she doesn’t want to go then you don’t want her to do anything she doesn’t want to do. Without opposition she will finally decide to become re-interested by school, and she will be bored at home or with you, and prefer her peers. Kids who are not made angry do not rebel. They have no reason to do so. They may decide things you would not do, but if you do not try to obstruct their decisions they will accept your advice, consider it fairly, and they will tell you what they are doing and intending to do. In other words don’t dishonor her rights and she won’t fuck up your life AND HERS, and you will have done a much better job of parenting. It may not always be the most convenient thing, but then I can think of many much more inconvenient and embarrassing things she can do to them if she keeps having reason to hate them, and they will find this out. Steve
Response:
I forgot to add this: When your daughter does get ready for school without a fight, be sure to praise her. Tell her that you are proud that she got up and ready for school on time. Next time she is angry and doesn’t hit or kick anyone again praise her for controlling her temper. When she can’t control her anger maybe she can count to 10 when she gets mad (rather than you counting and then taking something away). Maybe there is one big pillow that she can punch when she "loses it". She could go outside and run around the house to relieve her tension. Some other venue than the hitting and the throwing. How do you and your wife express your anger, honestly? Is this something she has observed? Mary Ellen
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> When she got home from school and everyone was calm, did you discuss what > happened that morning? Don’t let it "slip by". In a > rational/non-confrontational manner discuss that what went on that morning > cannot continue. You should explain to her that: > #1 she does NOT hit anyone no matter how angry she becomes. > #2 She needs to get up for school. If she is having a problem getting up > and getting dressed then ask her what can "we" do so that she will get up > and get dressed. If she feels she is helping to solve the problem then > maybe she won’t get so frustrated. Maybe she needs more time to "wake up". > You need to make it clear that hitting is out and that she needs to be to > school on time. > #3 I think that she is getting angry when you take things away because she > feels it’s not justified. I think you need to talk to her about the > problems when everyone is calm. (not at the moment when she is freaking > out). Explain to her that you and your wife do not act this way (I hope > LOL). > #4 I know that the first few weeks of school my kids are so tired and > miserable some of the times. It takes them a few weeks to adjust to the new > schedule and get back into the swing of things. This may be part of your > daughter’s problem too BUT it is not an excuse to kick anyone! > Hope this helps! Good luck! > Mary Ellen > Our 7 year old daughter, Jane, is a wonderful child in most ways. She > does well in school, gets along with friends, and is respectful to > adults (except sometimes to us, her parents). > The problem is that she has a temper when dealing with us. When our > daughter was born, my wife and I made the decision to never spank her, > and so far we have not. We are beginning to rethink that decision, > and would like to hear some opinions and possible alternative ways to > discipline. > This morning, I was trying to get Jane to get up and ready for school. > She refused, so I started counting to 10, telling her I would take > away her favorite doll for a day if she wasn’t up at the count of 10. > She didn’t cooperate, so I took the doll away after counting to 10. > Jane got very angry, and started kicking me and throwing her blanket > and stuffed toys at me. I then lengthened the time her doll was taken > away to several days, and that angered her even more, causing more > kicking and throwing. My wife then held her in her lap, holding her > arms and legs, as my daughter flailed away, trying to hit and kick us. > I then threatened to spank her, and she started crying for a few > minutes and then cooperated. I did not actually spank her, and this > was the first time I had threatened to. > Every couple of months we go through this scenario. When we > discipline our daughter through taking things away, she gets violent > with us. The more we take away, the worse she gets with her hitting > and kicking. The way we have handled in the past is that my wife held > Jane until she gave up. Although that worked, it does not seem to be > a deterrant against future tantrums with hitting and kicking. I’m > starting to think that spanking might be necessary. > She never exhibits this behavior with other children or grownups; just > us. > Your comments are appreciated. > – A frustrated dad.
Response:
When she got home from school and everyone was calm, did you discuss what happened that morning? Don’t let it "slip by". In a rational/non-confrontational manner discuss that what went on that morning cannot continue. You should explain to her that: #1 she does NOT hit anyone no matter how angry she becomes. #2 She needs to get up for school. If she is having a problem getting up and getting dressed then ask her what can "we" do so that she will get up and get dressed. If she feels she is helping to solve the problem then maybe she won’t get so frustrated. Maybe she needs more time to "wake up". You need to make it clear that hitting is out and that she needs to be to school on time. #3 I think that she is getting angry when you take things away because she feels it’s not justified. I think you need to talk to her about the problems when everyone is calm. (not at the moment when she is freaking out). Explain to her that you and your wife do not act this way (I hope LOL). #4 I know that the first few weeks of school my kids are so tired and miserable some of the times. It takes them a few weeks to adjust to the new schedule and get back into the swing of things. This may be part of your daughter’s problem too BUT it is not an excuse to kick anyone! Hope this helps! Good luck! Mary Ellen
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Our 7 year old daughter, Jane, is a wonderful child in most ways. She > does well in school, gets along with friends, and is respectful to > adults (except sometimes to us, her parents). > The problem is that she has a temper when dealing with us. When our > daughter was born, my wife and I made the decision to never spank her, > and so far we have not. We are beginning to rethink that decision, > and would like to hear some opinions and possible alternative ways to > discipline. > This morning, I was trying to get Jane to get up and ready for school. > She refused, so I started counting to 10, telling her I would take > away her favorite doll for a day if she wasn’t up at the count of 10. > She didn’t cooperate, so I took the doll away after counting to 10. > Jane got very angry, and started kicking me and throwing her blanket > and stuffed toys at me. I then lengthened the time her doll was taken > away to several days, and that angered her even more, causing more > kicking and throwing. My wife then held her in her lap, holding her > arms and legs, as my daughter flailed away, trying to hit and kick us. > I then threatened to spank her, and she started crying for a few > minutes and then cooperated. I did not actually spank her, and this > was the first time I had threatened to. > Every couple of months we go through this scenario. When we > discipline our daughter through taking things away, she gets violent > with us. The more we take away, the worse she gets with her hitting > and kicking. The way we have handled in the past is that my wife held > Jane until she gave up. Although that worked, it does not seem to be > a deterrant against future tantrums with hitting and kicking. I’m > starting to think that spanking might be necessary. > She never exhibits this behavior with other children or grownups; just > us. > Your comments are appreciated. > – A frustrated dad.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Our 7 year old daughter, Jane, is a wonderful child in most ways. She > does well in school, gets along with friends, and is respectful to > adults (except sometimes to us, her parents). > The problem is that she has a temper when dealing with us. When our > daughter was born, my wife and I made the decision to never spank her, > and so far we have not. We are beginning to rethink that decision, > and would like to hear some opinions and possible alternative ways to > discipline. > This morning, I was trying to get Jane to get up and ready for school. > She refused, so I started counting to 10, telling her I would take > away her favorite doll for a day if she wasn’t up at the count of 10. > She didn’t cooperate, so I took the doll away after counting to 10. > Jane got very angry, and started kicking me and throwing her blanket > and stuffed toys at me. I then lengthened the time her doll was taken > away to several days, and that angered her even more, causing more > kicking and throwing. My wife then held her in her lap, holding her > arms and legs, as my daughter flailed away, trying to hit and kick us. > I then threatened to spank her, and she started crying for a few > minutes and then cooperated. I did not actually spank her, and this > was the first time I had threatened to. > Every couple of months we go through this scenario. When we > discipline our daughter through taking things away, she gets violent > with us. The more we take away, the worse she gets with her hitting > and kicking. The way we have handled in the past is that my wife held > Jane until she gave up. Although that worked, it does not seem to be > a deterrant against future tantrums with hitting and kicking. I’m > starting to think that spanking might be necessary. > She never exhibits this behavior with other children or grownups; just > us.
It appears that your daughter becomes frustrated and hits. *If* you are consistently *always* using the exact same intervention and she has this reaction only every couple weeks you have one thing to deal with – teaching her how to deal with frustration more effectively. If, on the other hand, you are inconsistent in application of consequences, you have a different thing to address: your consistency. Inconsistent behavior on the part of the parent makes it difficult for the child to know when the parent really "means it" and respond appropriately. Evaluate what you are doing with that in mind. As to the frustration thing, your daughter is 7. She should not be hitting, but frustration is not something that most children this age deal well with 1005 of the time. I suggest that you sit down, as a family, and discuss the house rules and outline the consequences when they are not followed *and* when they are followed. Make following the rules sound enticing. Then, follow the prescribed consequences consistently. This usually will result in compliance, albeit grudgingly at times, when they must be applied. You state that you have resorted to use of physical restraint in the past. This is not usually necessary with the normal child. If you have had to do this your child has either not learned how to deal with frustration and anger in most situations, you run out of your bag of tricks rapidly, or your child has a behavior disorder and should be evaluated by a child psychologist to determine what is wrong and how to more effectively deal with it. To *start* spa*king as an intervention at this age would, IMO, be similar to use of physical restraint and probably only increase the child’s frustration and incite her to more use of aggression. Find other avenues that tend to teach her the skills required and de-escalate her. -Aula
Response:
: Pernhaps your daughter has some repressed anger.
: Our 7 year old daughter, Jane, is a wonderful child in most ways. She : does well in school, gets along with friends, and is respectful to : adults (except sometimes to us, her parents). : The problem is that she has a temper when dealing with us. When our : daughter was born, my wife and I made the decision to never spank her, : and so far we have not. We are beginning to rethink that decision, : and would like to hear some opinions and possible alternative ways to : discipline. : This morning, I was trying to get Jane to get up and ready for school. : She refused, so I started counting to 10, telling her I would take : away her favorite doll for a day if she wasn’t up at the count of 10. : She didn’t cooperate, so I took the doll away after counting to 10. : Jane got very angry, and started kicking me and throwing her blanket : and stuffed toys at me. I then lengthened the time her doll was taken : away to several days, and that angered her even more, causing more : kicking and throwing. My wife then held her in her lap, holding her : arms and legs, as my daughter flailed away, trying to hit and kick us. : I then threatened to spank her, and she started crying for a few : minutes and then cooperated. I did not actually spank her, and this : was the first time I had threatened to. : Every couple of months we go through this scenario. When we : discipline our daughter through taking things away, she gets violent : with us. The more we take away, the worse she gets with her hitting : and kicking. The way we have handled in the past is that my wife held : Jane until she gave up. Although that worked, it does not seem to be : a deterrant against future tantrums with hitting and kicking. I’m : starting to think that spanking might be necessary. : She never exhibits this behavior with other children or grownups; just : us. : Your comments are appreciated. : – A frustrated dad.
Response:
Our 7 year old daughter, Jane, is a wonderful child in most ways. She does well in school, gets along with friends, and is respectful to adults (except sometimes to us, her parents). The problem is that she has a temper when dealing with us. When our daughter was born, my wife and I made the decision to never spank her, and so far we have not. We are beginning to rethink that decision, and would like to hear some opinions and possible alternative ways to discipline. This morning, I was trying to get Jane to get up and ready for school. She refused, so I started counting to 10, telling her I would take away her favorite doll for a day if she wasn’t up at the count of 10. She didn’t cooperate, so I took the doll away after counting to 10. Jane got very angry, and started kicking me and throwing her blanket and stuffed toys at me. I then lengthened the time her doll was taken away to several days, and that angered her even more, causing more kicking and throwing. My wife then held her in her lap, holding her arms and legs, as my daughter flailed away, trying to hit and kick us. I then threatened to spank her, and she started crying for a few minutes and then cooperated. I did not actually spank her, and this was the first time I had threatened to. Every couple of months we go through this scenario. When we discipline our daughter through taking things away, she gets violent with us. The more we take away, the worse she gets with her hitting and kicking. The way we have handled in the past is that my wife held Jane until she gave up. Although that worked, it does not seem to be a deterrant against future tantrums with hitting and kicking. I’m starting to think that spanking might be necessary. She never exhibits this behavior with other children or grownups; just us. Your comments are appreciated. – A frustrated dad.
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