Question:

> There was an interesting story in the paper the other day. It was about a > guy who is climbing the tallest peaks on every continent. Turns out it is > Bob Keeshan’s son

Grandson, actually, and his name is Britton Keeshan. http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/entertainment/7817292.htm

Response:

There was an interesting story in the paper the other day. It was about a guy who is climbing the tallest peaks on every continent. Turns out it is Bod Keeshan’s son, I forget his first name though. (btw – this appeared in the Boston Globe so is not a hoax) tx Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was suprised nobody posted this. Good bye Capt. > Mike > MONTPELIER, Vt. – Bob Keeshan spent a lifetime as Captain Kangaroo, > welcoming millions of children into his television family. > It was a menagerie, with Mr. Moose, Dancing Bear, Miss Frog and Bunny > Rabbit. > And there were the inanimate objects that came to life: Grandfather > Clock and the Magic Drawing Board. > But there was no mistaking who the gentle father figure was: the > walrus-mustachioed captain himself. > Keeshan, who lived in Hartford, Vt., died Friday of a long illness at > a hospital in Windsor, his family said. He was 76. > "Our father, grandfather and friend was as passionate for his family > as he was for America’s children," according to a statement issued by > his family, including his son and two daughters. "He was largely a > private man living an often public life as an advocate for all that > our nation’s children deserve." > "Captain Kangaroo" premiered on CBS in 1955 and ran for 30 years > before moving to public television for six more. It was wildly popular > among children and won six Emmy Awards and three Peabody Awards. > Each day, Captain Kangaroo – with his sugar-bowl haircut and a uniform > coat with big pouch pockets that inspired the character’s name – would > wander through his Treasure House, chatting with his good friend Mr. > Green Jeans, played by Hugh "Lumpy" Brannum who died in 1987. > On the way, he would visit with puppet animals, like Bunny Rabbit, who > was scolded for eating too many carrots, and Mr. Moose, who loved to > tell knock-knock jokes. > Psychologist Dr. Joyce Brothers, who spent three seasons on the show, > called it "a wonderful service for children and parents." > "Parents could turn on the TV with complete security that what was > shown wouldn’t be harmful in any way," Brothers said. > Keeshan, born in Lynbrook, N.Y., became a page at NBC while he was in > high school. He joined the Marine Corps in 1945. > His first television appearance came in 1948, when he played the > voiceless, horn-honking Clarabell the Clown on the "Howdy Doody Show," > a role he created and played for five years. > "Captain Kangaroo" debuted on Oct. 3, 1955. After the PBS show ended > in 1992, Keeshan continued to play the role for a time in videos and > public appearances. > "Bob Keeshan was a true pioneer in children’s television whose legacy > goes unmatched," CBS chairman Leslie Moonves said. "He was a great > entertainer, showman and innovator, and he will always hold a special > place in the history of CBS and the hearts of television viewers." > While the show seemed like an impromptu walk through a child’s ideal > playground, it was smartly scripted, said Peggy Charren, founder of > Action for Children’s Television. > "He never did anything that would disappoint you," Charren said. "He > was a constant in lives that were not always full of constants." > Keeshan, who moved to Vermont in 1990, also remained active as a > children’s advocate, writing books, lecturing and lobbying. Keeshan’s > wife, Jeanne, died in 1990. > In 1998 he successfully lobbied for creation of the children’s > checkoff on the Vermont income tax form. Money raised by the checkoff > goes to support numerous children’s programs. > Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean (news – web sites), who worked with > Keeshan to enact the program, called him "one of the country’s most > revered icons." > Keeshan criticized today’s TV programs for children as too full of > violence. And he spoke wherever he went about the importance of good > parenting. > "Parents are the ultimate role models for children," he said. "Every > word, movement and action has an effect. No other person or outside > force has a greater influence on a child than the parent." > When Fred Rogers, the gentle host of "Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood," > died last year, Keeshan recalled how they often spoke about the state > of children’s programming. > "I don’t think it’s any secret that Fred and I were not very happy > with the way children’s television had gone," Keeshan said. > As for "Barney and Friends," Keeshan found the popular 1990s show > gentle but boring – "what we used to call `a program in a telephone > booth.’" > "There’s no room to stretch," Keeshan said in 1993. "They have to > break out and get away from that and build more characters and build > other aspects to the show." > Keeshan believed children learn more in the first six years of life > than at any other time and argued for day care that provides > emotional, physical and intellectual development for children. > "Play is the work of children. It’s very serious stuff. And if it’s > properly structured in a developmental program, children can blossom," > he said. > Drop PANTS before emailing. > An education teaches you that you don’t know everything. > Intelligence means you know where to find the information you are lacking. > mgbio

Response:

> I liked Mr. Greenjeans. > Mary > I always liked Mr. Moose and Dancing Bear as a 5 yr. old.  :(

i was a little old for that show..but my younger sister who is now deceased loved it..especially mr greenjeans..and i used to watch it with her all the time…lots of memories there… annie

Response:

I liked Mr. Greenjeans. Mary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I always liked Mr. Moose and Dancing Bear as a 5 yr. old.  :(

Response:

Dear William– Do you know how to tell the difference between facts and Internet garbage? This story about Keeshan is entirely apocryphal. As the following life chronology shows, Keeshan wa not even in the armed forces at the time of the landing at Iwo Jima–in fact, he wouldn’t have been old enough to even be in the Marines for the landing at Iwo Jima. Also, see the link below, which debunks the Lee Marvin-Iwo Jima story as Internet myth: http://www.who2.com/bobkeeshan.html I might add that your credulity on this point casts doubt on the overall reliability and truthfulness of your postings. BOB KEESHAN. Born in New York City, New York, U.S.A., 27 June 1927. Attended Fordham University, 1946-49. Served in United States Marine Corps Reserve, 1945-46. Married: Anne Jeanne Laurie, 1950; children: Michael Derek, Laurie Margaret, and Maeve Jeanne. Began career as Clarabell for NBC-TV’s Howdy Doody Show, 1947-52; appeared as Corny the Clown (ABC-TV), 1953-55, and Tinker the Toymaker (ABC-TV), 1954-55; starred as Captain Kangaroo (CBS-TV), 1955-85; president of Robert Keeshan Associates, from 1955; appeared as Mr. Mayor and the Town Clown (CBS-TV), 1964-65; president, Suffolk County Hearing and Speech Center, 1966-71; director of Marvin Josephson Associates, Inc, New York., 1969-77; director of Bank of Babylon, New York, 1973-79; chair, board of trustees, College of New Rochelle, New York, 1974-80; director of Anchor Savings Bank, 1976-91; chair, Council of Governing Boards, 1979-80; commentator, CBS-Radio, 1980-82; television commentator, 1981-82. Member: Board of Education, West Islip, New York, 1953-58; board of directors, Good Samaritan Hospital, West Islip, New York, 1969-78. Honorary Degrees: D. of Pedagogy, Rhode Island College, 1969; D.H.L. Alfred University, 1969; D.F.A., Fordham University, 1975; Litt.D., Indiana State University, 1978; L.L.D., Elmira (New York) University, 1980; D.L., Marquette University, 1983; D.P.S., Central Michigan University, 1984; D.H.L., St. Joseph College, 1987. Honorary Fellow: American Academy of Pediatrics. Recipient: Sylvania Award, 1956; Peabody Award, 1958, 1972, 1979; American Education Award, Education Industries Association, 1978; Distinguished Achievement Award, Georgia Radio and TV Institute-Pi Gamma Kappa, 1978; Emmy Awards,1978, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984; TV Father of the Year, 1980; James E. Allen Memorial Award, 1981; Distinguished Service to Children Award, 1981; National Education Award, 1982; American Heart Association National Public Affairs Recognition Award, 1987; Frances Holleman Breathitt Award for Excellence, Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts, 1987; Clown Hall of Fame, 1990; AMA Distinguished Service Award, 1991.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was suprised nobody posted this. Good bye Capt. > Mike >  I remember the ping-pong balls raining down on Mr. Moose. >  Speaking of Capt. Kagaroo and Mr. Rogers, here’s some other lesser > known merits about them. God bless them both. >  Here are two amazing stories about people we all know and love. Keep > reading to the end because the second story is even more surprising > than the first. > Quite a few of us grew up with Captain Kangaroo, as you or your > children probably did. I knew nothing of his background, only that his > show was both entertaining, educational, and as kids, we looked > forward to it with great anticipation. Captain Kangaroo turned 76 > recently, which is odd, because he’s never looked a day under 76 . > (DOB: 6/27/27) It reminded me of the following story. Hope you enjoy > it as much as I did. > Some people have been a bit offended that Lee Marvin is buried in a > grave alongside 3 and 4 star generals at Arlington National Cemetery. > His marker gives his name, rank (PVT) and service (USMC). Nothing > else. Here’s a guy who was only a famous movie star who served his > time, why the heck does he rate > burial with these guys? > Well, following is the amazing answer: > I always liked Lee Marvin, but did not know the extent of his Corps > experiences. In a time when many Hollywood stars served their country > in the armed forces, often in rear-echelon posts where they were > carefully protected, only to be trotted out to perform for the cameras > in war bond promotions, Lee Marvin was a genuine hero. He won the Navy > Cross at Iwo Jima. There is only one higher Naval award… the Medal > Of Honor. > If that is a surprising comment on the true character of the man, he > credits his sergeant with an even greater show of bravery. > Dialog from The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson: His guest was Lee > Marvin. Johnny said, "Lee, I’ll bet a lot of people are unaware that > you were a Marine in the initial landing at Iwo Jima… and that > during the course of that action you earned the Navy Cross and were > severely wounded." > "Yeah, yeah… I got shot square in the butt and they gave me the > Cross for securing a hot spot about halfway up Suribachi …bad thing > about getting shot up on a mountain is guys gettin’ shot hauling you > down. > But Johnny, at Iwo I served under the bravest man I ever knew… We > both got the Cross the same day, but what he did for his Cross made > mine look cheap in comparison. The dumb > guy actually stood up on Red Beach and directed his troops to move > forward and get the hell off the beach. That Sergeant and I have been > lifelong friends. When they brought me off Suribachi we passed the > Sergeant and he lit a smoke and passed it to me lying on my belly on > the litter and said, ‘Where’d they get you Lee?’ Well Bob… if you > make it home before me, > tell Mom to sell the outhouse! Johnny, I’m not lying… Sergeant > Keeshan was the bravest man I ever knew….. Bob Keeshan… You and > the world know him as Captain Kangaroo." > On another note, there was this wimpy little man (who just passed > away) on PBS, gentle and quite. Mr. Rogers is another on those you > would least suspect of being anything but what he now portrays to our > youth. But Mr. Rogers was a U.S. Navy Seal, combat proven in Vietnam > with over twenty-five confirmed > kills to his name. He wore a long sleeve sweater to cover the many > tattoos on his forearm and biceps. A master in small arms and > hand-to-hand combat, his was able to disarm or kill in a heartbeat. He > hid that away and won our hearts with his quiet wit and charm. > America’s real heroes don’t flaunt what they did, they quietly go > about their day to day lives, doing what they do best. They earned our > respect and the freedom’s that we all enjoy. > MONTPELIER, Vt. – Bob Keeshan spent a lifetime as Captain Kangaroo, > welcoming millions of children into his television family. > It was a menagerie, with Mr. Moose, Dancing Bear, Miss Frog and Bunny > Rabbit. > And there were the inanimate objects that came to life: Grandfather > Clock and the Magic Drawing Board. > But there was no mistaking who the gentle father figure was: the > walrus-mustachioed captain himself. > Keeshan, who lived in Hartford, Vt., died Friday of a long illness at > a hospital in Windsor, his family said. He was 76. > "Our father, grandfather and friend was as passionate for his family > as he was for America’s children," according to a statement issued by > his family, including his son and two daughters. "He was largely a > private man living an often public life as an advocate for all that > our nation’s children deserve." > "Captain Kangaroo" premiered on CBS in 1955 and ran for 30 years > before moving to public television for six more. It was wildly popular > among children and won six Emmy Awards and three Peabody Awards. > Each day, Captain Kangaroo ? with his sugar-bowl haircut and a uniform > coat with big pouch pockets that inspired the character’s name ? would > wander through his Treasure House, chatting with his good friend Mr. > Green Jeans, played by Hugh "Lumpy" Brannum who died in 1987. > On the way, he would visit with puppet animals, like Bunny Rabbit, who > was scolded for eating too many carrots, and Mr. Moose, who loved to > tell knock-knock jokes. > Psychologist Dr. Joyce Brothers, who spent three seasons on the show, > called it "a wonderful service for children and parents." > "Parents could turn on the TV with complete security that what was > shown wouldn’t be harmful in any way," Brothers said. > Keeshan, born in Lynbrook, N.Y., became a page at NBC while he was in > high school. He joined the Marine Corps in 1945. > His first television appearance came in 1948, when he played the > voiceless, horn-honking Clarabell the Clown on the "Howdy Doody Show," > a role he created and played for five years. > "Captain Kangaroo" debuted on Oct. 3, 1955. After the PBS show ended > in 1992, Keeshan continued to play the role for a time in videos and > public appearances. > "Bob Keeshan was a true pioneer in children’s television whose legacy > goes unmatched," CBS chairman Leslie Moonves said. "He was a great > entertainer, showman and innovator, and he will always hold a special > place in the history of CBS and the hearts of television viewers." > While the show seemed like an impromptu walk through a child’s ideal > playground, it was smartly scripted, said Peggy Charren, founder of > Action for Children’s Television. > "He never did anything that would disappoint you," Charren said. "He > was a constant in lives that were not always full of constants." > Keeshan, who moved to Vermont in 1990, also remained active as a > children’s advocate, writing books, lecturing and

… read more »

Response:

I certainly spent many an hour watching the Captain and cast of characters. Bunny Rabbit and Mr Green Jeans were my favorites. I was too old for Mr Rogers and always thought he was on psilocyibin, or something. tx Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was suprised nobody posted this. Good bye Capt. > Mike > MONTPELIER, Vt. – Bob Keeshan spent a lifetime as Captain Kangaroo, > welcoming millions of children into his television family. > It was a menagerie, with Mr. Moose, Dancing Bear, Miss Frog and Bunny > Rabbit. > And there were the inanimate objects that came to life: Grandfather > Clock and the Magic Drawing Board. > But there was no mistaking who the gentle father figure was: the > walrus-mustachioed captain himself. > Keeshan, who lived in Hartford, Vt., died Friday of a long illness at > a hospital in Windsor, his family said. He was 76. > "Our father, grandfather and friend was as passionate for his family > as he was for America’s children," according to a statement issued by > his family, including his son and two daughters. "He was largely a > private man living an often public life as an advocate for all that > our nation’s children deserve." > "Captain Kangaroo" premiered on CBS in 1955 and ran for 30 years > before moving to public television for six more. It was wildly popular > among children and won six Emmy Awards and three Peabody Awards. > Each day, Captain Kangaroo – with his sugar-bowl haircut and a uniform > coat with big pouch pockets that inspired the character’s name – would > wander through his Treasure House, chatting with his good friend Mr. > Green Jeans, played by Hugh "Lumpy" Brannum who died in 1987. > On the way, he would visit with puppet animals, like Bunny Rabbit, who > was scolded for eating too many carrots, and Mr. Moose, who loved to > tell knock-knock jokes. > Psychologist Dr. Joyce Brothers, who spent three seasons on the show, > called it "a wonderful service for children and parents." > "Parents could turn on the TV with complete security that what was > shown wouldn’t be harmful in any way," Brothers said. > Keeshan, born in Lynbrook, N.Y., became a page at NBC while he was in > high school. He joined the Marine Corps in 1945. > His first television appearance came in 1948, when he played the > voiceless, horn-honking Clarabell the Clown on the "Howdy Doody Show," > a role he created and played for five years. > "Captain Kangaroo" debuted on Oct. 3, 1955. After the PBS show ended > in 1992, Keeshan continued to play the role for a time in videos and > public appearances. > "Bob Keeshan was a true pioneer in children’s television whose legacy > goes unmatched," CBS chairman Leslie Moonves said. "He was a great > entertainer, showman and innovator, and he will always hold a special > place in the history of CBS and the hearts of television viewers." > While the show seemed like an impromptu walk through a child’s ideal > playground, it was smartly scripted, said Peggy Charren, founder of > Action for Children’s Television. > "He never did anything that would disappoint you," Charren said. "He > was a constant in lives that were not always full of constants." > Keeshan, who moved to Vermont in 1990, also remained active as a > children’s advocate, writing books, lecturing and lobbying. Keeshan’s > wife, Jeanne, died in 1990. > In 1998 he successfully lobbied for creation of the children’s > checkoff on the Vermont income tax form. Money raised by the checkoff > goes to support numerous children’s programs. > Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean (news – web sites), who worked with > Keeshan to enact the program, called him "one of the country’s most > revered icons." > Keeshan criticized today’s TV programs for children as too full of > violence. And he spoke wherever he went about the importance of good > parenting. > "Parents are the ultimate role models for children," he said. "Every > word, movement and action has an effect. No other person or outside > force has a greater influence on a child than the parent." > When Fred Rogers, the gentle host of "Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood," > died last year, Keeshan recalled how they often spoke about the state > of children’s programming. > "I don’t think it’s any secret that Fred and I were not very happy > with the way children’s television had gone," Keeshan said. > As for "Barney and Friends," Keeshan found the popular 1990s show > gentle but boring – "what we used to call `a program in a telephone > booth.’" > "There’s no room to stretch," Keeshan said in 1993. "They have to > break out and get away from that and build more characters and build > other aspects to the show." > Keeshan believed children learn more in the first six years of life > than at any other time and argued for day care that provides > emotional, physical and intellectual development for children. > "Play is the work of children. It’s very serious stuff. And if it’s > properly structured in a developmental program, children can blossom," > he said. > Drop PANTS before emailing. > An education teaches you that you don’t know everything. > Intelligence means you know where to find the information you are lacking. > mgbio

Response:

I was skeptical on the Captain being a war hero but the thought of Mr. Roger’s squatting alongside Jessie Ventura, weapons in hand, really blew the roof off of the ruse. tx Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > {re Lee Marvin} > But Johnny, at Iwo I served under the bravest man I ever knew… <snip> > Bob Keeshan… You and > the world know him as Captain Kangaroo." > http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl-marvin-keeshan.htm > On another note, there was this wimpy little man (who just passed > away) on PBS, gentle and quite. Mr. Rogers is another on those you > would least suspect of being anything but what he now portrays to our > youth. But Mr. Rogers was a U.S. Navy Seal, combat proven in Vietnam > with over twenty-five confirmed > kills to his name. <snip> > http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl-mr-rogers.htm > Sorry!  The stories were so charming, striking, and even believable, I had > to check them out! > ep

Response:

{re Lee Marvin} > But Johnny, at Iwo I served under the bravest man I ever knew… <snip>

Bob Keeshan… You and > the world know him as Captain Kangaroo."

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl-marvin-keeshan.htm > On another note, there was this wimpy little man (who just passed > away) on PBS, gentle and quite. Mr. Rogers is another on those you > would least suspect of being anything but what he now portrays to our > youth. But Mr. Rogers was a U.S. Navy Seal, combat proven in Vietnam > with over twenty-five confirmed > kills to his name. <snip>

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl-mr-rogers.htm Sorry!  The stories were so charming, striking, and even believable, I had to check them out! ep

Response:

Thanks William!  These two were part of my family me & my brother with the Captain and my son with both of them.  I would never have thought of them in the military for some reason.  I guess it was because they were so gentle and fun loving.  Thanks Again.  UM MOM Susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was suprised nobody posted this. Good bye Capt. > Mike >  I remember the ping-pong balls raining down on Mr. Moose. >  Speaking of Capt. Kagaroo and Mr. Rogers, here’s some other lesser > known merits about them. God bless them both. >  Here are two amazing stories about people we all know and love. Keep > reading to the end because the second story is even more surprising > than the first. > Quite a few of us grew up with Captain Kangaroo, as you or your > children probably did. I knew nothing of his background, only that his > show was both entertaining, educational, and as kids, we looked > forward to it with great anticipation. Captain Kangaroo turned 76 > recently, which is odd, because he’s never looked a day under 76 . > (DOB: 6/27/27) It reminded me of the following story. Hope you enjoy > it as much as I did. > Some people have been a bit offended that Lee Marvin is buried in a > grave alongside 3 and 4 star generals at Arlington National Cemetery. > His marker gives his name, rank (PVT) and service (USMC). Nothing > else. Here’s a guy who was only a famous movie star who served his > time, why the heck does he rate > burial with these guys? > Well, following is the amazing answer: > I always liked Lee Marvin, but did not know the extent of his Corps > experiences. In a time when many Hollywood stars served their country > in the armed forces, often in rear-echelon posts where they were > carefully protected, only to be trotted out to perform for the cameras > in war bond promotions, Lee Marvin was a genuine hero. He won the Navy > Cross at Iwo Jima. There is only one higher Naval award… the Medal > Of Honor. > If that is a surprising comment on the true character of the man, he > credits his sergeant with an even greater show of bravery. > Dialog from The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson: His guest was Lee > Marvin. Johnny said, "Lee, I’ll bet a lot of people are unaware that > you were a Marine in the initial landing at Iwo Jima… and that > during the course of that action you earned the Navy Cross and were > severely wounded." > "Yeah, yeah… I got shot square in the butt and they gave me the > Cross for securing a hot spot about halfway up Suribachi …bad thing > about getting shot up on a mountain is guys gettin’ shot hauling you > down. > But Johnny, at Iwo I served under the bravest man I ever knew… We > both got the Cross the same day, but what he did for his Cross made > mine look cheap in comparison. The dumb > guy actually stood up on Red Beach and directed his troops to move > forward and get the hell off the beach. That Sergeant and I have been > lifelong friends. When they brought me off Suribachi we passed the > Sergeant and he lit a smoke and passed it to me lying on my belly on > the litter and said, ‘Where’d they get you Lee?’ Well Bob… if you > make it home before me, > tell Mom to sell the outhouse! Johnny, I’m not lying… Sergeant > Keeshan was the bravest man I ever knew….. Bob Keeshan… You and > the world know him as Captain Kangaroo." > On another note, there was this wimpy little man (who just passed > away) on PBS, gentle and quite. Mr. Rogers is another on those you > would least suspect of being anything but what he now portrays to our > youth. But Mr. Rogers was a U.S. Navy Seal, combat proven in Vietnam > with over twenty-five confirmed > kills to his name. He wore a long sleeve sweater to cover the many > tattoos on his forearm and biceps. A master in small arms and > hand-to-hand combat, his was able to disarm or kill in a heartbeat. He > hid that away and won our hearts with his quiet wit and charm. > America’s real heroes don’t flaunt what they did, they quietly go > about their day to day lives, doing what they do best. They earned our > respect and the freedom’s that we all enjoy. > MONTPELIER, Vt. – Bob Keeshan spent a lifetime as Captain Kangaroo, > welcoming millions of children into his television family. > It was a menagerie, with Mr. Moose, Dancing Bear, Miss Frog and Bunny > Rabbit. > And there were the inanimate objects that came to life: Grandfather > Clock and the Magic Drawing Board. > But there was no mistaking who the gentle father figure was: the > walrus-mustachioed captain himself. > Keeshan, who lived in Hartford, Vt., died Friday of a long illness at > a hospital in Windsor, his family said. He was 76. > "Our father, grandfather and friend was as passionate for his family > as he was for America’s children," according to a statement issued by > his family, including his son and two daughters. "He was largely a > private man living an often public life as an advocate for all that > our nation’s children deserve." > "Captain Kangaroo" premiered on CBS in 1955 and ran for 30 years > before moving to public television for six more. It was wildly popular > among children and won six Emmy Awards and three Peabody Awards. > Each day, Captain Kangaroo ? with his sugar-bowl haircut and a uniform > coat with big pouch pockets that inspired the character’s name ? would > wander through his Treasure House, chatting with his good friend Mr. > Green Jeans, played by Hugh "Lumpy" Brannum who died in 1987. > On the way, he would visit with puppet animals, like Bunny Rabbit, who > was scolded for eating too many carrots, and Mr. Moose, who loved to > tell knock-knock jokes. > Psychologist Dr. Joyce Brothers, who spent three seasons on the show, > called it "a wonderful service for children and parents." > "Parents could turn on the TV with complete security that what was > shown wouldn’t be harmful in any way," Brothers said. > Keeshan, born in Lynbrook, N.Y., became a page at NBC while he was in > high school. He joined the Marine Corps in 1945. > His first television appearance came in 1948, when he played the > voiceless, horn-honking Clarabell the Clown on the "Howdy Doody Show," > a role he created and played for five years. > "Captain Kangaroo" debuted on Oct. 3, 1955. After the PBS show ended > in 1992, Keeshan continued to play the role for a time in videos and > public appearances. > "Bob Keeshan was a true pioneer in children’s television whose legacy > goes unmatched," CBS chairman Leslie Moonves said. "He was a great > entertainer, showman and innovator, and he will always hold a special > place in the history of CBS and the hearts of television viewers." > While the show seemed like an impromptu walk through a child’s ideal > playground, it was smartly scripted, said Peggy Charren, founder of > Action for Children’s Television. > "He never did anything that would disappoint you," Charren said. "He > was a constant in lives that were not always full of constants." > Keeshan, who moved to Vermont in 1990, also remained active as a > children’s advocate, writing books, lecturing and lobbying. Keeshan’s > wife, Jeanne, died in 1990. > In 1998 he successfully lobbied for creation of the children’s > checkoff on the Vermont income tax form. Money raised by the checkoff > goes to support numerous children’s programs. > Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean (news – web sites), who worked with > Keeshan to enact the program, called him "one of the country’s most > revered icons." > Keeshan criticized today’s TV programs for children as too full of > violence. And he spoke wherever he went about the importance of good > parenting. > "Parents are the ultimate role models for children," he said. "Every > word, movement and action has an effect. No other person or outside > force has a greater influence on a child than the parent." > When Fred Rogers, the gentle host of "Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood," > died last year, Keeshan recalled how they often spoke about the state > of children’s programming. > "I don’t think it’s any secret that Fred and I were not very happy > with the way children’s television had gone," Keeshan said. > As for "Barney and Friends," Keeshan found the popular 1990s show > gentle but boring ? "what we used to call `a program in a telephone > booth.’" > "There’s no room to stretch," Keeshan said in 1993. "They have to > break out and get away from that and build more characters and build > other aspects to the show." > Keeshan believed children learn more in the first six years of life > than at any other time and argued for day care that provides > emotional, physical and intellectual development for children. > "Play is the work of children. It’s very serious stuff. And if it’s > properly structured in a developmental program, children can blossom," > he said. > Drop PANTS before emailing. > An education teaches you that you don’t know everything. > Intelligence means you know where to find the information you are lacking. > mgbio

Response:

> I was suprised nobody posted this. Good bye Capt. > Mike

 I remember the ping-pong balls raining down on Mr. Moose.  Speaking of Capt. Kagaroo and Mr. Rogers, here’s some other lesser known merits about them. God bless them both.  Here are two amazing stories about people we all know and love. Keep reading to the end because the second story is even more surprising than the first. Quite a few of us grew up with Captain Kangaroo, as you or your children probably did. I knew nothing of his background, only that his show was both entertaining, educational, and as kids, we looked forward to it with great anticipation. Captain Kangaroo turned 76 recently, which is odd, because he’s never looked a day under 76 . (DOB: 6/27/27) It reminded me of the following story. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Some people have been a bit offended that Lee Marvin is buried in a grave alongside 3 and 4 star generals at Arlington National Cemetery. His marker gives his name, rank (PVT) and service (USMC). Nothing else. Here’s a guy who was only a famous movie star who served his time, why the heck does he rate burial with these guys? Well, following is the amazing answer: I always liked Lee Marvin, but did not know the extent of his Corps experiences. In a time when many Hollywood stars served their country in the armed forces, often in rear-echelon posts where they were carefully protected, only to be trotted out to perform for the cameras in war bond promotions, Lee Marvin was a genuine hero. He won the Navy Cross at Iwo Jima. There is only one higher Naval award… the Medal Of Honor. If that is a surprising comment on the true character of the man, he credits his sergeant with an even greater show of bravery. Dialog from The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson: His guest was Lee Marvin. Johnny said, "Lee, I’ll bet a lot of people are unaware that you were a Marine in the initial landing at Iwo Jima… and that during the course of that action you earned the Navy Cross and were severely wounded." "Yeah, yeah… I got shot square in the butt and they gave me the Cross for securing a hot spot about halfway up Suribachi …bad thing about getting shot up on a mountain is guys gettin’ shot hauling you down. But Johnny, at Iwo I served under the bravest man I ever knew… We both got the Cross the same day, but what he did for his Cross made mine look cheap in comparison. The dumb guy actually stood up on Red Beach and directed his troops to move forward and get the hell off the beach. That Sergeant and I have been lifelong friends. When they brought me off Suribachi we passed the Sergeant and he lit a smoke and passed it to me lying on my belly on the litter and said, ‘Where’d they get you Lee?’ Well Bob… if you make it home before me, tell Mom to sell the outhouse! Johnny, I’m not lying… Sergeant Keeshan was the bravest man I ever knew….. Bob Keeshan… You and the world know him as Captain Kangaroo." On another note, there was this wimpy little man (who just passed away) on PBS, gentle and quite. Mr. Rogers is another on those you would least suspect of being anything but what he now portrays to our youth. But Mr. Rogers was a U.S. Navy Seal, combat proven in Vietnam with over twenty-five confirmed kills to his name. He wore a long sleeve sweater to cover the many tattoos on his forearm and biceps. A master in small arms and hand-to-hand combat, his was able to disarm or kill in a heartbeat. He hid that away and won our hearts with his quiet wit and charm. America’s real heroes don’t flaunt what they did, they quietly go about their day to day lives, doing what they do best. They earned our respect and the freedom’s that we all enjoy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> MONTPELIER, Vt. – Bob Keeshan spent a lifetime as Captain Kangaroo, > welcoming millions of children into his television family. > It was a menagerie, with Mr. Moose, Dancing Bear, Miss Frog and Bunny > Rabbit. > And there were the inanimate objects that came to life: Grandfather > Clock and the Magic Drawing Board. > But there was no mistaking who the gentle father figure was: the > walrus-mustachioed captain himself. > Keeshan, who lived in Hartford, Vt., died Friday of a long illness at > a hospital in Windsor, his family said. He was 76. > "Our father, grandfather and friend was as passionate for his family > as he was for America’s children," according to a statement issued by > his family, including his son and two daughters. "He was largely a > private man living an often public life as an advocate for all that > our nation’s children deserve." > "Captain Kangaroo" premiered on CBS in 1955 and ran for 30 years > before moving to public television for six more. It was wildly popular > among children and won six Emmy Awards and three Peabody Awards. > Each day, Captain Kangaroo ? with his sugar-bowl haircut and a uniform > coat with big pouch pockets that inspired the character’s name ? would > wander through his Treasure House, chatting with his good friend Mr. > Green Jeans, played by Hugh "Lumpy" Brannum who died in 1987. > On the way, he would visit with puppet animals, like Bunny Rabbit, who > was scolded for eating too many carrots, and Mr. Moose, who loved to > tell knock-knock jokes. > Psychologist Dr. Joyce Brothers, who spent three seasons on the show, > called it "a wonderful service for children and parents." > "Parents could turn on the TV with complete security that what was > shown wouldn’t be harmful in any way," Brothers said. > Keeshan, born in Lynbrook, N.Y., became a page at NBC while he was in > high school. He joined the Marine Corps in 1945. > His first television appearance came in 1948, when he played the > voiceless, horn-honking Clarabell the Clown on the "Howdy Doody Show," > a role he created and played for five years. > "Captain Kangaroo" debuted on Oct. 3, 1955. After the PBS show ended > in 1992, Keeshan continued to play the role for a time in videos and > public appearances. > "Bob Keeshan was a true pioneer in children’s television whose legacy > goes unmatched," CBS chairman Leslie Moonves said. "He was a great > entertainer, showman and innovator, and he will always hold a special > place in the history of CBS and the hearts of television viewers." > While the show seemed like an impromptu walk through a child’s ideal > playground, it was smartly scripted, said Peggy Charren, founder of > Action for Children’s Television. > "He never did anything that would disappoint you," Charren said. "He > was a constant in lives that were not always full of constants." > Keeshan, who moved to Vermont in 1990, also remained active as a > children’s advocate, writing books, lecturing and lobbying. Keeshan’s > wife, Jeanne, died in 1990. > In 1998 he successfully lobbied for creation of the children’s > checkoff on the Vermont income tax form. Money raised by the checkoff > goes to support numerous children’s programs. > Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean (news – web sites), who worked with > Keeshan to enact the program, called him "one of the country’s most > revered icons." > Keeshan criticized today’s TV programs for children as too full of > violence. And he spoke wherever he went about the importance of good > parenting. > "Parents are the ultimate role models for children," he said. "Every > word, movement and action has an effect. No other person or outside > force has a greater influence on a child than the parent." > When Fred Rogers, the gentle host of "Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood," > died last year, Keeshan recalled how they often spoke about the state > of children’s programming. > "I don’t think it’s any secret that Fred and I were not very happy > with the way children’s television had gone," Keeshan said. > As for "Barney and Friends," Keeshan found the popular 1990s show > gentle but boring ? "what we used to call `a program in a telephone > booth.’" > "There’s no room to stretch," Keeshan said in 1993. "They have to > break out and get away from that and build more characters and build > other aspects to the show." > Keeshan believed children learn more in the first six years of life > than at any other time and argued for day care that provides > emotional, physical and intellectual development for children. > "Play is the work of children. It’s very serious stuff. And if it’s > properly structured in a developmental program, children can blossom," > he said. > Drop PANTS before emailing. > An education teaches you that you don’t know everything. > Intelligence means you know where to find the information you are lacking. > mgbio

Response:

I always liked Mr. Moose and Dancing Bear as a 5 yr. old.  :(

Response:

I always liked the Tom Terrific cartoons.  I used to get dressed for school while watching Captain Kangaroo, at least during the early 60s. Now I get ready for school with Mr. Rogers on tv (nice to have a little one around for an excuse).  Hard to believe we lost both in just a few months. Dwight – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was suprised nobody posted this. Good bye Capt. > Mike > MONTPELIER, Vt. – Bob Keeshan spent a lifetime as Captain Kangaroo, > welcoming millions of children into his television family. > It was a menagerie, with Mr. Moose, Dancing Bear, Miss Frog and Bunny > Rabbit. > And there were the inanimate objects that came to life: Grandfather > Clock and the Magic Drawing Board. > But there was no mistaking who the gentle father figure was: the > walrus-mustachioed captain himself. > Keeshan, who lived in Hartford, Vt., died Friday of a long illness at > a hospital in Windsor, his family said. He was 76. > "Our father, grandfather and friend was as passionate for his family > as he was for America’s children," according to a statement issued by > his family, including his son and two daughters. "He was largely a > private man living an often public life as an advocate for all that > our nation’s children deserve." > "Captain Kangaroo" premiered on CBS in 1955 and ran for 30 years > before moving to public television for six more. It was wildly popular > among children and won six Emmy Awards and three Peabody Awards. > Each day, Captain Kangaroo

Question:

> There is absolutely no way I would ever use violence to discipline a child. > Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent–it means that reasoning > power has failed.  Besides, what do you do when the kid starts hitting back? > There are people who say, "Violence never solved anything."  Ha! > Violence has settled more issues than dang near anything else in > history.  That does not mean that I think violence is *good*.  I have > the unpopular view that violence, while regrettable, has it’s place, > whether dealings are between humans or nations.

Oh, it has its place all right.  It can stop a behavior but doesn’t actually fix anything. > Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves > > stress.  What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood > > vessel one fine day? > I’d rather you didn’t let misfortunes and inconveniences get under your skin > in the first place  :) > I’m just drawn that way…

Maybe you need a better paintbrush… ;)

Response:

A > quick association of very minor pain to unwanted behavior is easily > established, however.  Uses hard-wired pain-avoidance genes to put a > stop to that behavior.

While many dog owners will disagree, I don’t equate dogs with  humans.  I do agree that swatting achild can be a method to stop the immediate misbehavior, but a side effect of that method is that instead of teaching respect and discipline, it gives the child fear and hate of the parent.  And once again, what do you do when the kid is too big to hit? > I’m not so sure it worked all that well.  Look at all the examples of > bad parenting – now think about the role model. > I can’t agree – all my anecdotal evidence (people I know who were > raised the same way I was) points the other way.  That is, my friends > who were spanked are without exceptions good parents with good > children who yes, also got spanked when the need arose.  I have > personal knowledge of many parents who abhore violence that the > thought of smacking a kid who have raised some perfect monsters.  I > know there is evidence both ways.  My gut tells me that spanking is > fine.

I was spanked as a child and grew up hating my dad behind it.  Violence serves the parent, it doesn’t serve the child.  I would never hit a child except if it was a teen with an adult body and mindset (who I didn’t know) and then only in self-defense.  More likely, I would just restrain them (Aikido training). > Physical punishment I personally find replsive.  it certainly is > criminal if it happens between adults, why should it be any less > criminal if it happens between an adult and a child.  Was it "for > their own good"? > The state puts people in prison and puts them on chain gangs, etc, as > ‘physical punishment’ for their misdeeds.  Some even put people to > death.  The state stands in loco parentis, in my opinion, when it > comes to maintaining a safe society for the law-abiding citizens. > That’s hardly criminal action by the state, unless you believe also > that criminals should not be locked up.

Prison guards don’t beat the inmates, though.  That’s called torture and is against federal law.  I’m not saying torture in prison doesn’t happen; it does, just that it’s illegal.  And I’m against the death penalty, too–too many innocent people framed by overzealous prosecutors. > By the same token, parents correct that child’s aberrant behavior by > direct physical punishment, and it serves the same purpose, especially > in a young child who is not capable yet of understanding a detailed > lecture on morality, rights, and duty to society.

ITA a toddler isn’t capable of understanding lectures of acceptable behavior, but I also maintain that whupping on a child is unacceptable and incompetent as a remedy. <snip> I mean that bad social skills (like driving as if you > own the road with no regard for anyone but yourself) are generally a > good indicator of what kind of parents they are, if indeed they are > parents.

I would opine that these people were raised by parents who wouldn’t discipline their children or teach them how to behave in society.  You can teach a child these things without smacking them around IMHO. > > > Then again, maybe some people are just happier when > > > they have something to complain about. > > I know I certainly am.  Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves > > stress.  What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood > > vessel one fine day? > I use other constructive methods to reduce stress.  I find hitting > that little white ball deep into the woods a great stress reliever. > I am on the road seven days a week.  No time for such things.  My > stress reliever is here on r.t.a.

An excellent idea, Bill.

Response:

> There is absolutely no way I would ever use violence to discipline a child. > Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent–it means that reasoning > power has failed.  Besides, what do you do when the kid starts hitting back?

There are people who say, "Violence never solved anything."  Ha! Violence has settled more issues than dang near anything else in history.  That does not mean that I think violence is *good*.  I have the unpopular view that violence, while regrettable, has it’s place, whether dealings are between humans or nations. > Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves > stress.  What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood > vessel one fine day? > I’d rather you didn’t let misfortunes and inconveniences get under your skin > in the first place  :)

I’m just drawn that way… Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Response:

> It takes all kinds.  I don’t think bad parents are created – I think > they started out as bad humans.

Honestly, I don’t know.  What I was hoping to communicate, however, was my belief that yes, bad ‘humans’ generally are not any better parents. > How about a rolled-up newspaper > across the hindquarters, followed by showing puppy where he should do > his bidness? > You think parenting and dog rearing should be managed the same way? > Well shoot – let’s just put them in little cages in the hold.

No, but I do think that puppies and small children have about the same attention span and level of mental acuity relative to an adult of the same species.  What I mean is that ‘explaining’ why screaming in public is not a Good Thing to a small child has about the same effect as ‘explaining’ to a puppy why they should not poop on the rug.  A quick association of very minor pain to unwanted behavior is easily established, however.  Uses hard-wired pain-avoidance genes to put a stop to that behavior. > I’m not so sure it worked all that well.  Look at all the examples of > bad parenting – now think about the role model.

I can’t agree – all my anecdotal evidence (people I know who were raised the same way I was) points the other way.  That is, my friends who were spanked are without exceptions good parents with good children who yes, also got spanked when the need arose.  I have personal knowledge of many parents who abhore violence that the thought of smacking a kid who have raised some perfect monsters.  I know there is evidence both ways.  My gut tells me that spanking is fine. > Physical punishment I personally find replsive.  it certainly is > criminal if it happens between adults, why should it be any less > criminal if it happens between an adult and a child.  Was it "for > their own good"?

The state puts people in prison and puts them on chain gangs, etc, as ‘physical punishment’ for their misdeeds.  Some even put people to death.  The state stands in loco parentis, in my opinion, when it comes to maintaining a safe society for the law-abiding citizens. That’s hardly criminal action by the state, unless you believe also that criminals should not be locked up. By the same token, parents correct that child’s aberrant behavior by direct physical punishment, and it serves the same purpose, especially in a young child who is not capable yet of understanding a detailed lecture on morality, rights, and duty to society. > I’m working in Orange County, CA this week.  The two-mile drive to > work is a real experience.  Lots of very expensive cars zooming in and > out of traffic, no turn signals, phones planted firmly on ears, speeds > about 20 mph over the limit on side-streets.  And it’s not just one or > two of them, it’s all of them.  Red lights mean you get another 6 or 7 > cars through the light before you really, really, have to stop.  If > your car costs more than $50,000 USD, you can park sideways across > three parking spots in the tight little cramped parking lots they have > here.  I have little doubt that these are the parents who I am > referring to in their parental capacity.  All about ‘me’ to hell with > society. > No doubt – but then again, how do you know that this behavior is > exclusive to parents?

Oh, I don’t!  I mean that bad social skills (like driving as if you own the road with no regard for anyone but yourself) are generally a good indicator of what kind of parents they are, if indeed they are parents. > > Then again, maybe some people are just happier when > > they have something to complain about. > I know I certainly am.  Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves > stress.  What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood > vessel one fine day? > I use other constructive methods to reduce stress.  I find hitting > that little white ball deep into the woods a great stress reliever.

I am on the road seven days a week.  No time for such things.  My stress reliever is here on r.t.a. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Response:

>You know what I find interesting is that whenever I hang around Asian babies, >toddlers, and other children, my ears are routinely spared any abuse at all. >I really don’t have any working theories as to why this is.  It’s just that, I >first, brace for sonic impact when I see the child…but then, I hear no noise. >It’s amazing.

except for singaporian babies……cry like banshees, later they grow up to be just as loud and crass…….

Response:

> > > You don’t have kids, do you? >    No thank goodness. But if I did I wouldnt take them flying. > Sure just lock them in a closet.  Don’t forget the muffle so their screams > won’t bother the neighbors.

  I will try Not to forget – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > > > know > > > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > > > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > > > Blue, with > > > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing > very > > > little to > > > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax > that > > > sat so close to it,. > > > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > > > into one of > > > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > > > his offensive > > > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > > > getting the > > > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > > > this. > > > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > > > special mask for > > > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the > infant, > > > it would > > > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > > > anyway at all. > > > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > I agree that screaming babies are the worst – and parents develop a > special sort of deafness that makes them not seem to hear it whenever > it would be inconvenient for them – but I’ve been through this fight > on r.t.a. before and I lost!  The solution is earplugs or headphones > for you, not a muffler for the kid. > Although frankly, the thought of duct tape, cling wrap, and cargo > holds for crying babies make me smile a bit inside… > Bwahahahaha! > BTW, parents who are immune to babies piercing screams are also often > not able to SMELL the little pooper’s special qualities, either.  Only > the rest of the plane is aware of Junior’s lumpy surprise. > Best Regards, > Bill Mattocks

Urban myth – as a father and grandfather I have never been able to immunize my hearing or sense of smell.  In fact, my wife used to tell me that a mother can hear her baby cry even before the crying starts. I also firmly believe, even in the absence of real data, just multiple anecdotes (if Tauger can do it, so can I), that parents who appear to be immune from the crying of their infant/child are not – but rather have adopted the best strategy to curtail the event by not reacting to it.  If you don’t reinforce a behavior, it soon stops – well, at least that’s the operant conditioning theory. Maybe these parents know more about what works than non-parents give them credit for.  Then again, maybe some people are just happier when they have something to complain about. js

Response:

> You don’t have kids, do you? >    No thank goodness. But if I did I wouldnt take them flying.

Why not? it’s not that bad….. My son is been flying since he was 6 months old. he never made a noise during the trip. he’s 10 now and I do need to tell him to turn down the game boy in the plane. Kenny

Response:

> Urban myth – as a father and grandfather I have never been able to > immunize my hearing or sense of smell.  In fact, my wife used to tell > me that a mother can hear her baby cry even before the crying starts.

I believe that *some* parents are tuned in to what Junior is up to. Some are, um, less so. > I also firmly believe, even in the absence of real data, just multiple > anecdotes (if Tauger can do it, so can I), that parents who appear to > be immune from the crying of their infant/child are not – but rather > have adopted the best strategy to curtail the event by not reacting to > it.  If you don’t reinforce a behavior, it soon stops – well, at least > that’s the operant conditioning theory.

Yes, if your puppy poops on the rug, you should ignore it, so as not to reinforce that bad behavior.  How about a rolled-up newspaper across the hindquarters, followed by showing puppy where he should do his bidness? Funny how times change.  My dad’s idea of dealing with crying, carrying on, misbehaving, etc, was a sharp crack on the ass, administered immediately and in public.  Amazing how well it worked. By today’s ‘enlightened’ views, he’d have been a criminal for such behavior. > Maybe these parents know more about what works than non-parents give > them credit for.

Perhaps some do.  Or, what I suspect is more likely, some of these seemingly non-attentive parents are actually deeply concerned about raising their children correctly, but they’re being horribly misled by the latest psycho-babble about child-rearing.  That would be maybe 10% of them.  The rest are just complete and utter selfish morons.  They raise kids like they drive cars – badly. I’m working in Orange County, CA this week.  The two-mile drive to work is a real experience.  Lots of very expensive cars zooming in and out of traffic, no turn signals, phones planted firmly on ears, speeds about 20 mph over the limit on side-streets.  And it’s not just one or two of them, it’s all of them.  Red lights mean you get another 6 or 7 cars through the light before you really, really, have to stop.  If your car costs more than $50,000 USD, you can park sideways across three parking spots in the tight little cramped parking lots they have here.  I have little doubt that these are the parents who I am referring to in their parental capacity.  All about ‘me’ to hell with society. > Then again, maybe some people are just happier when > they have something to complain about.

I know I certainly am.  Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves stress.  What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood vessel one fine day? Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Response:

> > Urban myth – as a father and grandfather I have never been able to > immunize my hearing or sense of smell.  In fact, my wife used to tell > me that a mother can hear her baby cry even before the crying starts. > I believe that *some* parents are tuned in to what Junior is up to. > Some are, um, less so.

It takes all kinds.  I don’t think bad parents are created – I think they started out as bad humans. > I also firmly believe, even in the absence of real data, just multiple > anecdotes (if Tauger can do it, so can I), that parents who appear to > be immune from the crying of their infant/child are not – but rather > have adopted the best strategy to curtail the event by not reacting to > it.  If you don’t reinforce a behavior, it soon stops – well, at least > that’s the operant conditioning theory. > Yes, if your puppy poops on the rug, you should ignore it, so as not > to reinforce that bad behavior.  

Not exactly what I meant – but pretty funny. > How about a rolled-up newspaper > across the hindquarters, followed by showing puppy where he should do > his bidness?

You think parenting and dog rearing should be managed the same way? Well shoot – let’s just put them in little cages in the hold. > Funny how times change.  My dad’s idea of dealing with crying, > carrying on, misbehaving, etc, was a sharp crack on the ass, > administered immediately and in public.  Amazing how well it worked.

I’m not so sure it worked all that well.  Look at all the examples of bad parenting – now think about the role model. > By today’s ‘enlightened’ views, he’d have been a criminal for such > behavior.

Physical punishment I personally find replsive.  it certainly is criminal if it happens between adults, why should it be any less criminal if it happens between an adult and a child.  Was it "for their own good"? > Maybe these parents know more about what works than non-parents give > them credit for. > Perhaps some do.  Or, what I suspect is more likely, some of these > seemingly non-attentive parents are actually deeply concerned about > raising their children correctly, but they’re being horribly misled by > the latest psycho-babble about child-rearing.  That would be maybe 10% > of them.  The rest are just complete and utter selfish morons.  They > raise kids like they drive cars – badly.

That describes 90% of the adult population irrespective of their parental status. > I’m working in Orange County, CA this week.  The two-mile drive to > work is a real experience.  Lots of very expensive cars zooming in and > out of traffic, no turn signals, phones planted firmly on ears, speeds > about 20 mph over the limit on side-streets.  And it’s not just one or > two of them, it’s all of them.  Red lights mean you get another 6 or 7 > cars through the light before you really, really, have to stop.  If > your car costs more than $50,000 USD, you can park sideways across > three parking spots in the tight little cramped parking lots they have > here.  I have little doubt that these are the parents who I am > referring to in their parental capacity.  All about ‘me’ to hell with > society.

No doubt – but then again, how do you know that this behavior is exclusive to parents? > Then again, maybe some people are just happier when > they have something to complain about. > I know I certainly am.  Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves > stress.  What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood > vessel one fine day?

I use other constructive methods to reduce stress.  I find hitting that little white ball deep into the woods a great stress reliever. > Best Regards, > Bill Mattocks

Happy travels js

Response:

> Funny how times change.  My dad’s idea of dealing with crying, > carrying on, misbehaving, etc, was a sharp crack on the ass, > administered immediately and in public.  Amazing how well it worked. > By today’s ‘enlightened’ views, he’d have been a criminal for such > behavior.

There is absolutely no way I would ever use violence to discipline a child. Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent–it means that reasoning power has failed.  Besides, what do you do when the kid starts hitting back? <snip> Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves > stress.  What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood > vessel one fine day?

I’d rather you didn’t let misfortunes and inconveniences get under your skin in the first place  :)

Response:

> You don’t have kids, do you? >    No thank goodness. But if I did I wouldnt take them flying.

Sure just lock them in a closet.  Don’t forget the muffle so their screams won’t bother the neighbors. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > > know > > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > > Blue, with > > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > > little to > > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > > sat so close to it,. > > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > > into one of > > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > > his offensive > > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > > getting the > > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > > this. > > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > > special mask for > > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > > it would > > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > > anyway at all. > > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

> I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_

I agree that screaming babies are the worst – and parents develop a special sort of deafness that makes them not seem to hear it whenever it would be inconvenient for them – but I’ve been through this fight on r.t.a. before and I lost!  The solution is earplugs or headphones for you, not a muffler for the kid. Although frankly, the thought of duct tape, cling wrap, and cargo holds for crying babies make me smile a bit inside… Bwahahahaha! BTW, parents who are immune to babies piercing screams are also often not able to SMELL the little pooper’s special qualities, either.  Only the rest of the plane is aware of Junior’s lumpy surprise. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Response:

> It’s those 3-to-5 YO’s that tend to scream the most particularly > when they don’t get their way for whatever reason.

I’d say 2-4.  They don’t call them the Terrible Twos for nothing. Casey

Response:

You know what I find interesting is that whenever I hang around Asian babies, toddlers, and other children, my ears are routinely spared any abuse at all. I really don’t have any working theories as to why this is.  It’s just that, I first, brace for sonic impact when I see the child…but then, I hear no noise. It’s amazing. — Los Angeles, CA – http://www.base-ix.com/~dlombard/ Base-IX Communications, coming 2004

Response:

> You don’t have kids, do you?

   No thank goodness. But if I did I wouldnt take them flying. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > Blue, with > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > little to > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > sat so close to it,. > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > into one of > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > his offensive > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > getting the > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > this. > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > special mask for > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > it would > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > anyway at all. > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

> usually small kids cry on descent (ear blockages).  It’s those 3-to-5 YO’s > that tend to scream the most particularly when they don’t get their way for > whatever reason.  Most of the time smaller kids only cry when they have a > REASON to cry. (wet, hungry, etc etc)

There is always a REASON when someone (kid or otherwise) does something.  No one does anything for no reason.  No apparent reason, maybe, but not for no reason (is that even grammatical?). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Last year, I flew from Hong Kong back to New Hampshire. There were 25 two > months old babies on the plane ( a group of people went to China and adopt > kids). You should see the look on our faces ( the other 300 passengers ). > We > are bracing for a 15 hours screaming flight. > To all our suprise, those babies were quiet all the way. May be they don’t > want the pilot to turn the plane around and head back to China. :) > Kenny > > I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > > know > > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > > Blue, with > > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > > little to > > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > > sat so close to it,. > > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > > into one of > > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > > his offensive > > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > > getting the > > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > > this. > > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > > special mask for > > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > > it would > > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > > anyway at all. > > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

> Last year, I flew from Hong Kong back to New Hampshire. There were 25 two > months old babies on the plane ( a group of people went to China and adopt > kids). You should see the look on our faces ( the other 300 passengers ). We > are bracing for a 15 hours screaming flight. > To all our suprise, those babies were quiet all the way. May be they don’t > want the pilot to turn the plane around and head back to China. :) > Kenny

I flew with my babies often when they were about 6 weeks old and on — we never had a single incident of prolonged crying — if you take care of their ears and the baby is not colicky then most don’t cry for extended periods – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > Blue, with > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > little to > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > sat so close to it,. > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > into one of > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > his offensive > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > getting the > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > this. > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > special mask for > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > it would > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > anyway at all. > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

You don’t have kids, do you?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > Blue, with > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > little to > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > sat so close to it,. > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > into one of > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > his offensive > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > getting the > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > this. > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > special mask for > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > it would > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > anyway at all. > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

usually small kids cry on descent (ear blockages).  It’s those 3-to-5 YO’s that tend to scream the most particularly when they don’t get their way for whatever reason.  Most of the time smaller kids only cry when they have a REASON to cry. (wet, hungry, etc etc)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Last year, I flew from Hong Kong back to New Hampshire. There were 25 two > months old babies on the plane ( a group of people went to China and adopt > kids). You should see the look on our faces ( the other 300 passengers ). We > are bracing for a 15 hours screaming flight. > To all our suprise, those babies were quiet all the way. May be they don’t > want the pilot to turn the plane around and head back to China. :) > Kenny > I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > Blue, with > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > little to > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > sat so close to it,. > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > into one of > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > his offensive > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > getting the > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > this. > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > special mask for > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > it would > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > anyway at all. > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I know I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin Blue, with this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very little to rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that sat so close to it,. I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid into one of the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate his offensive noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but getting the parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on this. In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a special mask for this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, it would completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in anyway at all. If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

> Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > Blue, with this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent > doing very little to rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really > pittied the pax that sat so close to it,. > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid into > one of the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to > isolate his offensive noise from those sitting close to him. The pax > beside me agreed, but getting the parent to agree would be a major > problem. I welcome any feedback on this.

Are you posting from the plane now? miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu Site remodeled 10-Sept-2003: Hundreds of new photos, easier navigation.

Response:

Last year, I flew from Hong Kong back to New Hampshire. There were 25 two months old babies on the plane ( a group of people went to China and adopt kids). You should see the look on our faces ( the other 300 passengers ). We are bracing for a 15 hours screaming flight. To all our suprise, those babies were quiet all the way. May be they don’t want the pilot to turn the plane around and head back to China. :) Kenny

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > Blue, with > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > little to > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > sat so close to it,. > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > into one of > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > his offensive > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > getting the > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > this. > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > special mask for > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > it would > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > anyway at all. > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

> In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > special mask for this situation, when if the mask is placed over the > mouth of the infant, it would completely muffle out all the noise > without suffocating the child in anyway at all.

Besides the obvious technical problems, as the baby muffler would be rather large to be effective, the only type of parent who would use one would be the type of parent who has already tried her/his best to have a quiet child.  The really obnoxious parent would never buy one. Casey

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > Blue, with > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > little to > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > sat so close to it,. > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > into one of > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > his offensive > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > getting the > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > this. > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > special mask for > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > it would > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > anyway at all. > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

I agree that a parent who is not trying to cope is highly annoying BUT  most planes only have a couple of toilets for the entire coach class — I sure don’t want to have to stand in long lines while someone monopolizes a toilet to isolate a child, nurse a baby, make love or anything else other than a quick trip to do what needs doing there

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Question:

I’m fairly ignorant on current amps – even though I’ve been playing for a long time! Been stuck in the parenting rut and now want to play a few clubs with guys I’ve been jamming with. I’d like to know what small (around 50 watts) combo amps people really rate in club situations. I have "rich man’s tastes and poor man’s pockets" but am willing to spend around

Question:

Some areas are in worse shape than others. Here are some statistics from a Detroit tv news web site published today: About 21 percent of Detroit residents have no insurance coverage. Medicaid, a public health plan for the poor that doesn’t fully pay treatment costs to doctors and hospitals, covers another 31.5 percent. http://www.clickondetroit.com/health/2360820/detail.html That would be 52.5% of people in Detroit who are uninsured or underinsured. I’d say that’s extremely high. It has created a huge health care crisis in Detroit as each of the three hospitals in Detroit are providing $100 million in free care annually. Denise – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > "Overall, 14.1 percent of the population — some 38.9 million Americans > of all ages — was without health insurance coverage in the first half > of 2001" – US Department of Health & Human Services > http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2002pres/20020204.html > Define "high percentage" as you will.  38.9 million Americans without > coverage seems like a lot, even if it’s only 14%. > -rev > ^ Here in the U.S. a very high percentage of > the population does not have medical insurance > incorrect statement

Response:

Hi, had a look at the site, it made interesting reading. Despite what some say about the NHS, I’m glad we have it! Mel :-)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If you’re interested Mel, here’s a good site talking about the uninsured > in the US: http://coveringtheuninsured.org > Hospitals legally can’t deny medical aid to someone who requires it.  If > the person is uninsured, the get the full bill for the hospital visit. > Often, they can’t pay it and they don’t.  Normally the hospitals just > give up on the bill.  If the person doesn’t have enough money to pay for > it, going through the legal process of trying to claim the bill is just > a waste of time and money. > So, the hospital ends up paying for it.  Which means they must raise > prices to compensate for it.  So, those people who can pay end up > compensating for those who can’t.  The US Federal Government (and many > state governments) also do some level of subsidies to help out hospitals > in areas that have a high number of patients who come in unable to pay. > -rev > Thanks mgbio ;-) > so do they still get treated and the hospital somehow has to try and get the > money back? Surely they wouldn’t let someone die because they have no > insurance? > Mel

Response:

Mel, Hospitals must treat anyone who comes to the ER.  However, if you are uninsured, instead of of someone else paying a lower, negotiated, price, you pay the full price and then some.  Usually this "then some" helps to offset the reductions given to the insured folks (IMHO).  Plus, the cost of being treated for basic medical care that should take place in a physician’s office skyrockets.  Hospitals do give out charity care, but you must qualify; not all the uninsured do.  If you are middle class, own a home or other assets, you could end up loosing them if you seek needed medical care in a hospital room. The system stinks and needs change, hard, expensive, but better for all Americans. :)  mgbio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Thanks mgbio ;-) > so do they still get treated and the hospital somehow has to try and get the > money back? Surely they wouldn’t let someone die because they have no > insurance? > Mel > Opps, hit send by accident, here is what I meant to say, in full > I don’t know where you are getting your numbers, but here are a few > things I came across in a quick search: > http://www.statesman.com/metrostate/content/auto/epaper/editions/toda… > In Texas it is estimated that 38% of Hispanics do not have health > insurance. > http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/discussion00-14.pdf > A 2000 report shows that 15.4% of the nonelderly population have no > insurance.  Of that 15.4% 23.7% are among adults age 18-34, which means > either our college students or young workforce. > http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2003/30/we_482_01.html > The article states that over 41 million Americans have no health > insurance.  (I’m not concerned right now w/ placing the blame, which the > article discusses at length.) > http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/parenting/07/17/american.children.ap/ > A recent CNN article about discussing child health states that 88% of > children have health insurance.  This means that 18% don’t. > http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=16466 > Discusses how the uninsured in IL are paying 50-70% MORE for health care > than those who are insured.  Those who can afford it the least are > paying the most.  The article goes on to say:  "The full rates uninsured > people end up paying are usually vastly inflated from the actual cost of > providing service. For the past 20 years  health care bills have risen > at twice the inflation rate. In 1993 the U.S. General Accounting Office > reported that 99 percent of hospital bills have overcharges, which can > include "phantom charges" for services that weren’t actually given, > markups, duplicate billings and charges for unnecessarily long hospital > stays or unneeded services." > The article later states that of these uninsured:  "..in Illinois 28.9 > percent of Latinos and 22.8 percent of African-Americans are uninsured, > compared to 11 percent of whites." > Furthermore, > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2003/07/… > discusses that the cost of these uninsured, who go to ER’s for basic > health care and those inflated costs are born us, the taxpayers.  (And > believe me, I have seen it and had to wait as an emergency patient > behind this mis-use of resources.) > I don’t know about you, but I find these statistics appalling. > mgbio > > ^ Here in the U.S. a very high percentage of > > the population does not have medical insurance > > incorrect statement

Response:

I’m not surprised!  I live in Houston and I know lots of people without health insurance…I’m very fortunate to have excellent health insurance…many physicians are dropping the HMO plans and sticking with the PPO’s…can’t say I blame them because they have to do the same amount of work and do not make any money.  I have a feeling that most physicians in my community make a pretty nice chunk of change!

> Opps, hit send by accident, here is what I meant to say, in full > I don’t know where you are getting your numbers, but here are a few > things I came across in a quick search:

http://www.statesman.com/metrostate/content/auto/epaper/editions/toda… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In Texas it is estimated that 38% of Hispanics do not have health > insurance. > http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/discussion00-14.pdf > A 2000 report shows that 15.4% of the nonelderly population have no > insurance.  Of that 15.4% 23.7% are among adults age 18-34, which means > either our college students or young workforce. > http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2003/30/we_482_01.html > The article states that over 41 million Americans have no health > insurance.  (I’m not concerned right now w/ placing the blame, which the > article discusses at length.) > http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/parenting/07/17/american.children.ap/ > A recent CNN article about discussing child health states that 88% of > children have health insurance.  This means that 18% don’t. > http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=16466 > Discusses how the uninsured in IL are paying 50-70% MORE for health care > than those who are insured.  Those who can afford it the least are > paying the most.  The article goes on to say:  "The full rates uninsured > people end up paying are usually vastly inflated from the actual cost of > providing service. For the past 20 years  health care bills have risen > at twice the inflation rate. In 1993 the U.S. General Accounting Office > reported that 99 percent of hospital bills have overcharges, which can > include "phantom charges" for services that weren’t actually given, > markups, duplicate billings and charges for unnecessarily long hospital > stays or unneeded services." > The article later states that of these uninsured:  "..in Illinois 28.9 > percent of Latinos and 22.8 percent of African-Americans are uninsured, > compared to 11 percent of whites." > Furthermore,

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2003/07/… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> discusses that the cost of these uninsured, who go to ER’s for basic > health care and those inflated costs are born us, the taxpayers.  (And > believe me, I have seen it and had to wait as an emergency patient > behind this mis-use of resources.) > I don’t know about you, but I find these statistics appalling. > mgbio > ^ Here in the U.S. a very high percentage of > the population does not have medical insurance > incorrect statement

Response:

Thanks mgbio ;-) so do they still get treated and the hospital somehow has to try and get the money back? Surely they wouldn’t let someone die because they have no insurance? Mel

> Opps, hit send by accident, here is what I meant to say, in full > I don’t know where you are getting your numbers, but here are a few > things I came across in a quick search:

http://www.statesman.com/metrostate/content/auto/epaper/editions/toda… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In Texas it is estimated that 38% of Hispanics do not have health > insurance. > http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/discussion00-14.pdf > A 2000 report shows that 15.4% of the nonelderly population have no > insurance.  Of that 15.4% 23.7% are among adults age 18-34, which means > either our college students or young workforce. > http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2003/30/we_482_01.html > The article states that over 41 million Americans have no health > insurance.  (I’m not concerned right now w/ placing the blame, which the > article discusses at length.) > http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/parenting/07/17/american.children.ap/ > A recent CNN article about discussing child health states that 88% of > children have health insurance.  This means that 18% don’t. > http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=16466 > Discusses how the uninsured in IL are paying 50-70% MORE for health care > than those who are insured.  Those who can afford it the least are > paying the most.  The article goes on to say:  "The full rates uninsured > people end up paying are usually vastly inflated from the actual cost of > providing service. For the past 20 years  health care bills have risen > at twice the inflation rate. In 1993 the U.S. General Accounting Office > reported that 99 percent of hospital bills have overcharges, which can > include "phantom charges" for services that weren’t actually given, > markups, duplicate billings and charges for unnecessarily long hospital > stays or unneeded services." > The article later states that of these uninsured:  "..in Illinois 28.9 > percent of Latinos and 22.8 percent of African-Americans are uninsured, > compared to 11 percent of whites." > Furthermore,

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2003/07/… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> discusses that the cost of these uninsured, who go to ER’s for basic > health care and those inflated costs are born us, the taxpayers.  (And > believe me, I have seen it and had to wait as an emergency patient > behind this mis-use of resources.) > I don’t know about you, but I find these statistics appalling. > mgbio > ^ Here in the U.S. a very high percentage of > the population does not have medical insurance > incorrect statement

Response:

"Overall, 14.1 percent of the population — some 38.9 million Americans of all ages — was without health insurance coverage in the first half of 2001" – US Department of Health & Human Services http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2002pres/20020204.html Define "high percentage" as you will.  38.9 million Americans without coverage seems like a lot, even if it’s only 14%. -rev – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > ^ Here in the U.S. a very high percentage of > the population does not have medical insurance > incorrect statement

Response:

If you’re interested Mel, here’s a good site talking about the uninsured in the US: http://coveringtheuninsured.org Hospitals legally can’t deny medical aid to someone who requires it.  If the person is uninsured, the get the full bill for the hospital visit. Often, they can’t pay it and they don’t.  Normally the hospitals just give up on the bill.  If the person doesn’t have enough money to pay for it, going through the legal process of trying to claim the bill is just a waste of time and money. So, the hospital ends up paying for it.  Which means they must raise prices to compensate for it.  So, those people who can pay end up compensating for those who can’t.  The US Federal Government (and many state governments) also do some level of subsidies to help out hospitals in areas that have a high number of patients who come in unable to pay. -rev – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Thanks mgbio ;-) > so do they still get treated and the hospital somehow has to try and get the > money back? Surely they wouldn’t let someone die because they have no > insurance? > Mel

Response:

Opps, hit send by accident, here is what I meant to say, in full I don’t know where you are getting your numbers, but here are a few things I came across in a quick search: http://www.statesman.com/metrostate/content/auto/epaper/editions/toda… In Texas it is estimated that 38% of Hispanics do not have health insurance.   http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/discussion00-14.pdf A 2000 report shows that 15.4% of the nonelderly population have no insurance.  Of that 15.4% 23.7% are among adults age 18-34, which means either our college students or young workforce.   http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2003/30/we_482_01.html The article states that over 41 million Americans have no health insurance.  (I’m not concerned right now w/ placing the blame, which the article discusses at length.) http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/parenting/07/17/american.children.ap/ A recent CNN article about discussing child health states that 88% of children have health insurance.  This means that 18% don’t.   http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=16466 Discusses how the uninsured in IL are paying 50-70% MORE for health care than those who are insured.  Those who can afford it the least are paying the most.  The article goes on to say:  "The full rates uninsured people end up paying are usually vastly inflated from the actual cost of providing service. For the past 20 years  health care bills have risen at twice the inflation rate. In 1993 the U.S. General Accounting Office reported that 99 percent of hospital bills have overcharges, which can include "phantom charges" for services that weren’t actually given, markups, duplicate billings and charges for unnecessarily long hospital stays or unneeded services." The article later states that of these uninsured:  "..in Illinois 28.9 percent of Latinos and 22.8 percent of African-Americans are uninsured, compared to 11 percent of whites." Furthermore, http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2003/07/… discusses that the cost of these uninsured, who go to ER’s for basic health care and those inflated costs are born us, the taxpayers.  (And believe me, I have seen it and had to wait as an emergency patient behind this mis-use of resources.) I don’t know about you, but I find these statistics appalling. mgbio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > ^ Here in the U.S. a very high percentage of > the population does not have medical insurance > incorrect statement

Response:

Oh Mel, what a can of worms!  Here in the U.S. a very high percentage of the population does not have medical insurance.  If you are extremely poor, the feds will pay the way (though getting care becomes more complicated and not everyone will take you as a patient).  If you are the average middle class American you either have inadequate coverage (hospitalization which will prevent your being bankrupt maybe) or no coverage (way too many).  Two of the biggest messes we leave for our children are health care and social security. In a thought, it stinks! :)  mgbio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi, > Just wondering how the med insurance works in other countries. Here in the > UK we have the NHS so care is practically free. What happens in countries > where you have to have insurance, if someone hasn’t got it? Or do you still > get basic care free? > Mel :-)

Response:

^ Here in the U.S. a very high percentage of the population does not have medical insurance incorrect statement

Response:

I don’t know where you are getting your numbers, but here are a few things I came across in a quick search: http://www.statesman.com/metrostate/content/auto/epaper/editions/toda… In Texas it is estimated that 38% of Hispanics do not have health insurance.   A 2000 report shows that 15.4% of the nonelderly populatin have no insurance. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > ^ Here in the U.S. a very high percentage of > the population does not have medical insurance > incorrect statement

Response:

Hi, Just wondering how the med insurance works in other countries. Here in the UK we have the NHS so care is practically free. What happens in countries where you have to have insurance, if someone hasn’t got it? Or do you still get basic care free? Mel :-)

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Question:

Can somebody please explain why all the cross-posted OT stuff lately? I’ve been off-line for a week or so. Curious as to the context.  No BFD.

Response:

> Can somebody please explain why all the cross-posted OT stuff lately? > I’ve been off-line for a week or so. > Curious as to the context.  No BFD.

There’s a wanker (or a spanker) named Chris Dugan (unfortunately, this leftoid warpo is breathin’ my air here in the People’s Republic of Denver; I apologize for his lame ass) who normally hangs out on a little jerkwater NG called alt.parenting.spanking.  Ordinarily, "his" NG draws less than a dozen posts a day.  I reckon he got tired of starin’ at the wall over there and decided to stir some shit here on AGA, so he just crossposted a whole slew of crap cut-and-pasted from red-diaper doper-baby commie sites like the Guardian "news"paper and whatnot.  I (and several others) are currently returning the favor.  He has never posted on topic here  (and can’t, as far as anyone knows) so his intent was not to discuss things here as a "regular" but rather to decrease the S/N ratio further.  AGA is, admittedly, a good pick for a pinko asshole of his ilk, since there is certainly no shortage of fellow travelers here.  ;-) Lord Valve Arrogant Rightwing Bastard

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Can somebody please explain why all the cross-posted OT stuff lately? > I’ve been off-line for a week or so. > Curious as to the context.  No BFD. > There’s a wanker (or a spanker) named Chris Dugan > (unfortunately, this leftoid warpo is breathin’ my air > here in the People’s Republic of Denver; I apologize > for his lame ass) who normally hangs out on a little > jerkwater NG called alt.parenting.spanking.  Ordinarily, > "his" NG draws less than a dozen posts a day.  I reckon > he got tired of starin’ at the wall over there and decided > to stir some shit here on AGA, so he just crossposted a > whole slew of crap cut-and-pasted from red-diaper > doper-baby commie sites like the Guardian "news"paper > and whatnot.  I (and several others) are currently returning > the favor.  He has never posted on topic here  (and can’t, > as far as anyone knows) so his intent was not to discuss > things here as a "regular" but rather to decrease the > S/N ratio further.  AGA is, admittedly, a good pick > for a pinko asshole of his ilk, since there is certainly > no shortage of fellow travelers here.  ;-) > Lord Valve > Arrogant Rightwing Bastard

OK…thanks…too bad there isn’t a way, with this crazy ‘information super highway’ to make peace with him, and send him…say…digital copies of good movies we all like, or some other gesture of good will.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Can somebody please explain why all the cross-posted OT stuff lately? > > I’ve been off-line for a week or so. > > Curious as to the context.  No BFD. > There’s a wanker (or a spanker) named Chris Dugan > (unfortunately, this leftoid warpo is breathin’ my air > here in the People’s Republic of Denver; I apologize > for his lame ass) who normally hangs out on a little > jerkwater NG called alt.parenting.spanking.  Ordinarily, > "his" NG draws less than a dozen posts a day.  I reckon > he got tired of starin’ at the wall over there and decided > to stir some shit here on AGA, so he just crossposted a > whole slew of crap cut-and-pasted from red-diaper > doper-baby commie sites like the Guardian "news"paper > and whatnot.  I (and several others) are currently returning > the favor.  He has never posted on topic here  (and can’t, > as far as anyone knows) so his intent was not to discuss > things here as a "regular" but rather to decrease the > S/N ratio further.  AGA is, admittedly, a good pick > for a pinko asshole of his ilk, since there is certainly > no shortage of fellow travelers here.  ;-) > Lord Valve > Arrogant Rightwing Bastard > OK…thanks…too bad there isn’t a way, with this crazy > ‘information super highway’ to make peace with him, and > send him…say…digital copies of good movies we all like, > or some other gesture of good will.

You naughty boy.  ;-) LV

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>Can somebody please explain why all the cross-posted OT stuff lately? >I’ve been off-line for a week or so. >Curious as to the context.  No BFD.

The usual reason for x-posting like this is to stir up trouble, get the members of two groups flaming each other so the original troll can sit back and laugh at the results.  Sadly not everyone can manage to ignore the little turds, which in effect plays into their scheme.

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Question:

Two Top New York Times Editors Resign FOX NEWS, Thursday, June 05, 2003 NEW YORK

Question:

Hey everone Im not sure wheter Im allowed to discuss sex on this NG but I cant think of a better place as Im not about to discuss it with my doctor anytime soon. I’ve been on MTX more or less since I was 13 (which means 10 yrs) and since I was so young when I started it nobody told me about the possible side effect of "loss of libido" – and I wouldnt have cared about it at the time either… But now, that Im 23 I feel that my libido has been lost somewhere along the way… Im wondering if anyone else has experienced this and if you can give me some kinda advice or something…? *blushing now* – Silja [norway] "Beach is pronounced with a long ‘e’. Going down on the bitch means something quite different."   –My english teacher. http://www.geocities.com/scoobysil

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Hi Silja and welcome! Nice to see a fellow Scandinavian (I’m from Sweden) my age here! There is another Norwegian woman here as well. Anyway, I don’t have any problems with MTX, so I can’t help you very much with that. When I was in for my last Remicade infusion, there was that a middle age lady in the bed next to mine told me that she refused to take MTX anymore, since she’d lose her libido while on it. This is about what I know about MTX and loss of libido. Hopefully, someone else will be able to have better answers. Is your arthritis well controlled? If not, that may also contribute to loss of libido. Nina – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hey everone > Im not sure wheter Im allowed to discuss sex on this NG but I > cant think of a better place as Im not about to discuss it with > my doctor anytime soon. > I’ve been on MTX more or less since I was 13 (which means 10 yrs) > and since I was so young when I started it nobody told me about > the possible side effect of "loss of libido" – and I wouldnt > have cared about it at the time either… > But now, that Im 23 I feel that my libido has been > lost somewhere along the way… > Im wondering if anyone else has experienced this > and if you can give me some kinda advice or something…? > *blushing now* > – Silja [norway] > "Beach is pronounced with a long ‘e’. > Going down on the bitch means something quite different." >   –My english teacher. > http://www.geocities.com/scoobysil

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hey everone > Im not sure wheter Im allowed to discuss sex on this NG but I > cant think of a better place as Im not about to discuss it with > my doctor anytime soon. > I’ve been on MTX more or less since I was 13 (which means 10 yrs) > and since I was so young when I started it nobody told me about > the possible side effect of "loss of libido" – and I wouldnt > have cared about it at the time either… > But now, that Im 23 I feel that my libido has been > lost somewhere along the way… > Im wondering if anyone else has experienced this > and if you can give me some kinda advice or something…? > *blushing now* > – Silja [norway] > "Beach is pronounced with a long ‘e’. > Going down on the bitch means something quite different." >   –My english teacher. > http://www.geocities.com/scoobysil

What other medications are you on? — Are you registered as a bone marrow donor? You regenerate what you donate.  You are offered the chance to donate only if you match a person on the recipient list. Call your local Red Cross and ask about registering to be a bone marrow donor. spam trap: replace shyah_right with hotmail when replying

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Hi, Silja… and welcome to the group! First, I just reviewed a number of areas that discuss the possible side effects of medications looking specifically for anything regarding mtx and the libido and found nothing.  That doesn’t mean it isn’t the cause, but I couldn’t find it as a major noted side effect anyway. Here are some links to the details: http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/mtx.htm http://www.arthritis.co.za/methotrexate.htm http://www.arthritis.co.za/methotrexate%20ra.htm I did however find an interesting section on intimacy in arthritis at Drdoc’s website (illustrated!) that you may find helpful: http://www.arthritis.co.za/intimacy.html In other words, it sure looks to me like the disease itself may have the effect on the libido that you are concerned about. In any case, although I am just as shy as you, if not more so, in discussing this kind of thing with my rheumatologist, you must get your courage up and discuss the nitty-gritty with your doctor.  He knows what medications you are on, your body’s restrictions, and should be well-educated on optimizing your choices for getting past this difficulty. If it is still too hard for you to discuss in person, you may try my method.  I will write to my rheumatologist those questions that are just too hard for me to bring up in person.  I may send him a letter, or an e-mail.  I find this much easier and it lets me bring up topics that are just too difficult in person where he is always so rushed or may be interrupted. As to methotrexate and me, so far so good… I have not noticed any such effect and I’ve been on a relatively high dose for years and years now. One final note, just in case you didn’t notice it, and that is that anyone, MALE OR FEMALE, who is on mtx should be using a reliable method of contraception as mtx can cause birth defects and/or spontaneous abortion. Best of luck, and do stick around here!  I guarantee there are others with questions similar to yours who have just been too shy to bring it up. LadyAndy Chat live with us at >http://tinyurl.com/4ust < (this is at iVillageHealth – my chats are on Sun evenings at 10 ET) Joint Replacement Board at http://boards.ivillagehealth.com/cgi-bin/boards/bhivhjointreplace

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> I did however find an interesting section on intimacy in arthritis at Drdoc’s > website (illustrated!) that you may find helpful: > http://www.arthritis.co.za/intimacy.html

Scroll down to the bottom of that page and you see this: "Reproduction in ANY FORM – STRICTLY prohibited" LOL!!!! ahahaha — Are you registered as a bone marrow donor? You regenerate what you donate.  You are offered the chance to donate only if you match a person on the recipient list. Call your local Red Cross and ask about registering to be a bone marrow donor. spam trap: replace shyah_right with hotmail when replying

Response:

> What other medications are you on?

I also use Orudis which is a painkiller. My arthritis is pretty much under control.. Im more or less fine… This is my only major problem at the time… – Silja "Beach is pronounced with a long ‘e’. Going down on the bitch means something quite different."   –My english teacher. http://www.geocities.com/scoobysil

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Hi, I am 23 (have been on MTX very long – JRA since 1992) and I don’t have this problem. But haven’t you thought that this might be not due to MTX? I am really not an expert, but I haven’t heard that MTX could have such side-effect. Agata

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>http://www.arthritis.co.za/intimacy.html >Scroll down to the bottom of that page and you see this: >"Reproduction in ANY FORM – STRICTLY prohibited"

ROFL  Now THAT is funny!! Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’.  We’re all in this together."  Red Green

Response:

The problem may lie within another medication. Anti-depressants can decrease libido. I’m not sure about other drugs, but I would suggest going over the drug information that comes with your prescriptions or looking at a site such as rxlist.com. Just a thought, Ashley C. Ashley C. aka…. "Little One" www.ashleycanterbury.com

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>>What other medications are you on? > I also use Orudis which is a painkiller. > My arthritis is pretty much under control.. Im more or less > fine… This is my only major problem at the time…

My thinking was, that if you were taking birth control pills, that these would be the most likely culprit for your loss of libido. Ari > – Silja > "Beach is pronounced with a long ‘e’. > Going down on the bitch means something quite different." >   –My english teacher. > http://www.geocities.com/scoobysil

– Are you registered as a bone marrow donor? You regenerate what you donate.  You are offered the chance to donate only if you match a person on the recipient list. Call your local Red Cross and ask about registering to be a bone marrow donor. spam trap: replace shyah_right with hotmail when replying

Response:

Hi and welcome I suffered from the same thing and was also on MTX and Orudis.  But I’m alot older than you so that could have contributed to it as well. I would encourage you to speak with your doctor – don’t be embarrassed because medications can cause all sorts of side-effects, as I’m sure you know.  And 10 years seems quite a long time to have been on MTX. Also, if you are in constant pain, it’s little wonder you don’t feel too amorous! Di – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hey everone > Im not sure wheter Im allowed to discuss sex on this NG but I > cant think of a better place as Im not about to discuss it with > my doctor anytime soon. > I’ve been on MTX more or less since I was 13 (which means 10 yrs) > and since I was so young when I started it nobody told me about > the possible side effect of "loss of libido" – and I wouldnt > have cared about it at the time either… > But now, that Im 23 I feel that my libido has been > lost somewhere along the way… > Im wondering if anyone else has experienced this > and if you can give me some kinda advice or something…? > *blushing now* > – Silja [norway] > "Beach is pronounced with a long ‘e’. > Going down on the bitch means something quite different." >   –My english teacher. > http://www.geocities.com/scoobysil

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Im new to this group but i’ll throw in my 2 cents for what its worth :) i am also on mtx. 7.5 mg. but i also take a ton of other stuff…..for arthritis, bipolar, and thyroid…..i asked my pdoc who is also a pharmacologist if any of the meds i was on would cause loss of libido…..Ha he said……all of them….thanks doc…so my poor husband of only two years.   its a good thing he is soooo understanding.  proly most men arent,  especially when he wont even take an aspirin.     i talked to my gyno also.  the fact that i have an 18 month old doesnt help either. dont even ask about those 9 months…as far as libido .   well anyway   ( and im not in any way advertising here!)   in Parenting magazine i saw an ad for avlimil.  for female sexual dys.   its all natural supplement.  roots berries, that kind of stuff.  but im getting desperate so i took the bait.  i went ahead and ordered it thru the mail.  it is expensive  but if it works it will be worth it.     i cant tell you if it works yet or not ive only taken it for a week and they said it could take 4 to 6 weeks for it to build up in your system. i’ll keep you posted if you want.  it is avail w/o script.  it also mentioned more energy!  what i wouldnt give for that!!!!! anyone else heard of it or tried it?? Laurie in Pa

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Im new to this group but i’ll throw in my 2 cents for what its worth :) > i am also on mtx. 7.5 mg. but i also take a ton of other stuff…..for > arthritis, bipolar, and thyroid…..i asked my pdoc who is also a > pharmacologist if any of the meds i was on would cause loss of > libido…..Ha > he said……all of them….thanks doc…so my poor husband of only two > years.   its a good thing he is soooo understanding.  proly most men > arent,  especially when he wont even take an aspirin.     > i talked to my gyno also.  the fact that i have an 18 month old doesnt > help either. > dont even ask about those 9 months…as far as libido .   > well anyway   ( and im not in any way advertising here!)   in Parenting > magazine i saw an ad for avlimil.  for female sexual dys.   its all > natural supplement.  roots berries, that kind of stuff.  but im getting > desperate so i took the bait.  i went ahead and ordered it thru the > mail.  it is expensive  but if it works it will be worth it.     i cant > tell you if it works yet or not ive only taken it for a week and they > said it could take 4 to 6 weeks for it to build up in your system. > i’ll keep you posted if you want.  it is avail w/o script.  it also > mentioned more energy!  what i wouldnt give for that!!!!! > anyone else heard of it or tried it?? > Laurie in Pa

I think testosterone creme would probably work better. — Are you registered as a bone marrow donor? You regenerate what you donate.  You are offered the chance to donate only if you match a person on the recipient list. Call your local Red Cross and ask about registering to be a bone marrow donor. spam trap: replace shyah_right with hotmail when replying

Response:

tried the testosterone creme too….didnt do anything for me except more mood swings  which is  the last thing I need.

Response:

> Hi and welcome > I suffered from the same thing and was also on MTX and Orudis.  But > I’m alot older than you so that could have contributed to it as well. > I would encourage you to speak with your doctor – don’t be embarrassed > because medications can cause all sorts of side-effects, as I’m sure > you know.  And 10 years seems quite a long time to have been on MTX. > Also, if you are in constant pain, it’s little wonder you don’t feel > too amorous!

I know I should speak to my doctor… But I cant seem to make myself do it. I just feel like its no big deal and nothing to bitch about you know? Also my doctors never seem to have the time for a discussion about this.. Whenever I have my checkups by rheumatoligsts… (Which is about twice a year…) Im in and outta there in 15 minutes… So when they say "any other questions" they are already starting to get ready for the next patient… And that doesnt make me feel like saying "oh yea.. my sexlife sucks" But I’ll try… I might even ask my gynocologist.. Hadnt tought of that actually… So thanx to whoever it was who mentioned their gyno. :) – Silja "Beach is pronounced with a long ‘e’. Going down on the bitch means something quite different."   –My english teacher. http://www.geocities.com/scoobysil

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> tried the testosterone creme too….didnt do anything for me except more > mood swings  which is  the last thing I need.

Ack! I’ve known people that it’s worked for (especially when the birth control pill artificially lowers their testosterone levels…yes, wimmins need testosterone too to fuel their sex drives) and I’ve heard of women actually getting low levels of testosterone injected when the creams haven’t worked, but I think this has become a thing of the past now that the male HRT testosterone patches are available (I heard through a physician one horror story about a woman who had a testosterone injection and over the course of 3 days bedded half the men in her small town…it did not do wonders for her marriage…) Ari — Are you registered as a bone marrow donor? You regenerate what you donate.  You are offered the chance to donate only if you match a person on the recipient list. Call your local Red Cross and ask about registering to be a bone marrow donor. spam trap: replace shyah_right with hotmail when replying

Response:

> Whenever I have my checkups by rheumatoligsts… > (Which is about twice a year…) Im in and outta there in 15 minutes… > So when they say "any other questions" they are already starting to get > ready for the next patient… And that doesnt make me feel like saying > "oh yea.. my sexlife sucks" > But I’ll try… I might even ask my gynocologist.. Hadnt tought of > that actually… So thanx to whoever it was who mentioned their gyno. :)

If it would be more comfortable, you could also write them a letter.  I would also ask for a longer appointment the next time you see your rheumatologist.  You just can’t do a complete exam in 15 minutes. Sexuality is an important part of our lives and you have a right to have this problem addressed. Walt Hanks

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi and welcome > I suffered from the same thing and was also on MTX and Orudis.  But > I’m alot older than you so that could have contributed to it as well. > I would encourage you to speak with your doctor – don’t be embarrassed > because medications can cause all sorts of side-effects, as I’m sure > you know.  And 10 years seems quite a long time to have been on MTX. > Also, if you are in constant pain, it’s little wonder you don’t feel > too amorous! > I know I should speak to my doctor… But I cant seem to make myself do it. > I just feel like its no big deal and nothing to bitch about you know? > Also my doctors never seem to have the time for a discussion about this.. > Whenever I have my checkups by rheumatoligsts… > (Which is about twice a year…) Im in and outta there in 15 minutes… > So when they say "any other questions" they are already starting to get > ready for the next patient… And that doesnt make me feel like saying > "oh yea.. my sexlife sucks" > But I’ll try… I might even ask my gynocologist.. Hadnt tought of > that actually… So thanx to whoever it was who mentioned their gyno. :) > – Silja

Hei Silja, I’m another Nowegian in here, but  mostly a lurker and twice you age I’m afraid..  I don’t know where you se the rheumatologist, but wanted to ask if it is at a hospital like I have mine?   I go to the Diakonhjemmet in Oslo, and there they have special nurses on call for all  their rheumatology patients for one hour every day. And I thought that it might be a bit easier if you could call a nurse and ask her this questions?  If they need further information, they will get it for you and call you back later. Could you find a similar service? Aina the lurker in Norway — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

it was a year ago when i tried the testosterone creme.  one of my doctors recently told me it is improved now…..not sure how.  but i didnt want to try it again especially with the bipolar moods to boot. it was my gyno who suggested it in the first place and my husband went right in with me.  she did say that testosterone is the "spice" for women. Yikes!!  i guess the injection worked for somebody?!! Laurie

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Question:

> >While there is some disagreement about the role of early ingestion on >developing this allergy, many doctors believe it can be triggered by >early exposure.  Since it is an often fatal reaction, one of the very >worst types of allergies, it is prudent to avoid peanut and other nuts >before age 3. > I agree completely!!! The pediatrician we had at the time said it was fine to > give a toddler a little peanut butter after 12 months of age.  The first time I > did, my son reacted.  How I wish I had known that it was best to wait! > Mary

Given this early reaction, it probably wouldn’t have mattered — he probably would have been sensitive to it later as well.  In fact, if he really did react the first time, he was probably sensitized before birth. so don’t feel guilty.  Some things just are.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My son will be 1 year old on January 23rd.  Does any one know when it > is > safe to give him smooth peanut butter on toast?  I have been told by > my Mom > to hold off on the peanut butter because it is hard to digest.  He > loves > the flavor. > Empingo > Talk to your pediatrician. Generally, use of any type of nut oil is > frowned on prior to 18 months to two years because of the high > likelihood of allergies in reaction to the nut oil.

While there is some disagreement about the role of early ingestion on developing this allergy, many doctors believe it can be triggered by early exposure.  Since it is an often fatal reaction, one of the very worst types of allergies, it is prudent to avoid peanut and other nuts before age 3. k

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>While there is some disagreement about the role of early ingestion on >developing this allergy, many doctors believe it can be triggered by >early exposure.  Since it is an often fatal reaction, one of the very >worst types of allergies, it is prudent to avoid peanut and other nuts >before age 3.

I agree completely!!! The pediatrician we had at the time said it was fine to give a toddler a little peanut butter after 12 months of age.  The first time I did, my son reacted.  How I wish I had known that it was best to wait! Mary

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I actually thought of taking my son to the parking lot of the hospital to give him his first peanut butter for this exact reason (allergic reaction).  I did not and he was fine but I waited until about 18 months, checked with the doctor, and nerved out about it for a long time. Scottie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > My son will be 1 year old on January 23rd.  Does any one know when it > > is > > safe to give him smooth peanut butter on toast?  I have been told by > > my Mom > > to hold off on the peanut butter because it is hard to digest.  He > > loves > > the flavor. > > Empingo > Talk to your pediatrician. Generally, use of any type of nut oil is > frowned on prior to 18 months to two years because of the high > likelihood of allergies in reaction to the nut oil. >While there is some disagreement about the role of early ingestion on >developing this allergy, many doctors believe it can be triggered by >early exposure.  Since it is an often fatal reaction, one of the very >worst types of allergies, it is prudent to avoid peanut and other nuts >before age 3.

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> Does any one know when it is >safe to give him smooth peanut butter on toast?  

A great alternative (and safe as well as nutritious) is tahini…ground sesame seeds.  It has a decent amount of calcium and protein.  I buy the organic kind to be on the safe side.  When kids get used to the taste of tahini and other nut butters early it makes for a more diverse diet later on.  I put tahini on my daughter’s waffle along with some pure fruit spread or apple butter and she loves it.  Good luck. ~debra~

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writes: >Because peanuts are an allergen for so many children, my pediatrician doesn’t >recommend them before age three.

My ped. says the same.  However, children can have tree nuts and their butters after 1 year.  Almond butter, tho it can be expensive, is highly nutritious (calcium, iron, fiber, and the best kind of fat to have in the diet).  My family likes filbert butter, and I’ve also spotted cashew butter, even macadamia nut butter! lynn

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> My son will be 1 year old on January 23rd.  Does any one know when it is > safe to give him smooth peanut butter on toast?  I have been told by my Mom > to hold off on the peanut butter because it is hard to digest.  He loves > the flavor. > Empingo

The reason to hold off on peanut butter isn’t because it’s hard to digest- it’s because it’s one of the foods most likely to cause an allergic reaction in a person and a small child’s throat is too small to allow intervention in time to save the kid’s life.  If a child were to have a bad allergic reaction to peanut butter the tongue and throat might swell and prevent the ability for air exchange, and because the child is so small there would not be enough time for medical intervention before it was too late.  It is recommended to hold off on peanut butter and fish until the child is old enough to have a fighting chance in the event of an allergic reaction.  It is recommended to hold off on eggs and honey and corn syrup because of the high chances of food poisoning (botchilism, sp?). My ped. recommended I year of age, others lately on the news group have said two and three years of age.  My kids are two and three and have been eating the above mentioned foods since their first birthday with no problems. — Best wishes, Lynn. "The reason our eyes are on the front of our heads   is so that we can see where we’re going   and not be bothered by what’s past."  Sally Huss

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Because peanuts are an allergen for so many children, my pediatrician doesn’t recommend them before age three. Happy BF, J. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >My son will be 1 year old on January 23rd.  Does any one know when it is >safe to give him smooth peanut butter on toast?  I have been told by my Mom >to hold off on the peanut butter because it is hard to digest.  He loves >the flavor. >Empingo

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My son just turned a year on Dec 2nd and I have been giving him peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for a couple of months now.  He loves them and hasn’t had any reaction to it at all nor does it seem hard for him do digest.  Actually PB&J is one of his favorites.  I guess it’s up to the parent to make that call.  I have 3 kids and all them loved PB&J by a year old! Good luck Shawn

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> My son will be 1 year old on January 23rd.  Does any one know when it > is > safe to give him smooth peanut butter on toast?  I have been told by > my Mom > to hold off on the peanut butter because it is hard to digest.  He > loves > the flavor. > Empingo

Talk to your pediatrician. Generally, use of any type of nut oil is frowned on prior to 18 months to two years because of the high likelihood of allergies in reaction to the nut oil. Good luck! — Charles I. Letbetter, Editor CATCH Online Magazine http://www.pagebrothers.com A new way of looking at parenting

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My son will be 1 year old on January 23rd.  Does any one know when it is safe to give him smooth peanut butter on toast?  I have been told by my Mom to hold off on the peanut butter because it is hard to digest.  He loves the flavor. Empingo

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+ You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted + raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. My cockatiels turned their beaks up at it. Shelled peanuts, too. James

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My vet advised me to use peanut butter only as a vehicle to get medicines into an ailing bird. Otherwise it is too fattening for continued good health of the bird. TTFN A – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…. > mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them > busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

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I forgot to mention, my vet told be it was too fattening to give often, so it is a very rare treat and I spread it thinly all over the spoon to make it last longer. if memmory serves correctly, this was a very young bird in the original message. I dont remember about their nutritional needs, too many years ago. carie

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I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and the birds don’t know the difference!

Response:

: I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very : fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and : the birds don’t know the difference! I agree, nut butters (don’t forget the yummy ones like cashew butter and almond butter!) are good as part of a balanced diet, in moderation. More of a treat. I prefer to use the ‘natural’ kind, where the only ingredient on the label are: the nuts. No salt, sugars or extra hydrogenated oils to keep it mixed. So when you see these butters, the oil may be seperated out somewhat is the jar. This is fine: just flip it upside down for a bit and then stir it in and refrigerate. Try them: they’re wonderful! Laura Scudders sells a natural peanut butter in the larger chain stores. Otherwise, try your local health food stores for the other kinds. Kelly Flynn

Response:

My vet has said the same thing about peanut butter. Use peanut butter in small amounts and not everyday. A treat here or there is fine… Rob. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. > I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as > they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can > develop > the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a > vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: > http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm > I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not > getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you > should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs > a > balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be > helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested > in > avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best > for > your young and growing grey. > There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian > nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: > http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more > information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will > help > you with any more nutrition questions you may have. > Gloria

Response:

   Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays)    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any advice would be appreciated                                                                  thank you

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any > advice would be appreciated

Sure.  Just keep in mind peanut butter is fattening. You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. Kevin — http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter….

mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can develop the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs a balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested in avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best for your young and growing grey. There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will help you with any more nutrition questions you may have. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food > and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his > food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same > size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more > fat…..any > advice would be appreciated >                                                                  thank > you

Response:

> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then? > Thanks – Maura

Absolutely! — LIZ

Response:

:     Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe :     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura Our two greys (Kiwi the CAG and Gizmo the TAG), White Capped Pionus (Hobie) and our Severe Macaw (Yes he’s stuck on the name Rambo which we hate) all love peanuts.  We limit the number they get due to the fat content but I imagine that peanut butter is no worse (or better).  So if your bird loves it, why not let him have limited amounts. — Mike Holland                   |*****  /  *****|  Internet: 2015 South Park Place          |*   / / /_/   *|  HPDESK: Atlanta, Georgia 30339         |***    /    ***| Mike Holland/HPATC/03 Phone: (404) 850-2449          |***** /   *****|  Telnet: 1-850-2449

Response:

>> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then?

Ever noticed how amazons always love fattening things?  Anyway, all four of our birds love peanut butter sandwiches.  We make them on wheat bread so we can pretend it is good for them.  I’m sure the protein is actually good for them, but peanut butter is high in fat.  Our amazons and grey are allowed 1/4 of a sandwich each.  We let our macaw have up to a half (I get whatever is left). It is definitely one of their favorite treats. Susan

Response:

    Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura We make 8 little peanut butter "sliders" every other morning: a small peanut butter sandwich with bird vitamins mixed in. The little twerps don’t even know the vitamins are there. It’s nice to win one now & then… –Doug — Douglas Roberts, TSA-DO/SA     | Los Alamos National Laboratory | All good work is done in defiance (505)667-4569                  |

Response:

Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge now and then? Thanks – Maura

Response:

+ You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted + raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. My cockatiels turned their beaks up at it. Shelled peanuts, too. James

Response:

My vet advised me to use peanut butter only as a vehicle to get medicines into an ailing bird. Otherwise it is too fattening for continued good health of the bird. TTFN A – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…. > mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them > busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

I forgot to mention, my vet told be it was too fattening to give often, so it is a very rare treat and I spread it thinly all over the spoon to make it last longer. if memmory serves correctly, this was a very young bird in the original message. I dont remember about their nutritional needs, too many years ago. carie

Response:

I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and the birds don’t know the difference!

Response:

: I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very : fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and : the birds don’t know the difference! I agree, nut butters (don’t forget the yummy ones like cashew butter and almond butter!) are good as part of a balanced diet, in moderation. More of a treat. I prefer to use the ‘natural’ kind, where the only ingredient on the label are: the nuts. No salt, sugars or extra hydrogenated oils to keep it mixed. So when you see these butters, the oil may be seperated out somewhat is the jar. This is fine: just flip it upside down for a bit and then stir it in and refrigerate. Try them: they’re wonderful! Laura Scudders sells a natural peanut butter in the larger chain stores. Otherwise, try your local health food stores for the other kinds. Kelly Flynn

Response:

My vet has said the same thing about peanut butter. Use peanut butter in small amounts and not everyday. A treat here or there is fine… Rob. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. > I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as > they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can > develop > the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a > vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: > http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm > I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not > getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you > should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs > a > balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be > helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested > in > avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best > for > your young and growing grey. > There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian > nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: > http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more > information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will > help > you with any more nutrition questions you may have. > Gloria

Response:

   Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays)    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any advice would be appreciated                                                                  thank you

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any > advice would be appreciated

Sure.  Just keep in mind peanut butter is fattening. You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. Kevin — http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter….

mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can develop the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs a balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested in avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best for your young and growing grey. There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will help you with any more nutrition questions you may have. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food > and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his > food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same > size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more > fat…..any > advice would be appreciated >                                                                  thank > you

Response:

> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then? > Thanks – Maura

Absolutely! — LIZ

Response:

:     Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe :     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura Our two greys (Kiwi the CAG and Gizmo the TAG), White Capped Pionus (Hobie) and our Severe Macaw (Yes he’s stuck on the name Rambo which we hate) all love peanuts.  We limit the number they get due to the fat content but I imagine that peanut butter is no worse (or better).  So if your bird loves it, why not let him have limited amounts. — Mike Holland                   |*****  /  *****|  Internet: 2015 South Park Place          |*   / / /_/   *|  HPDESK: Atlanta, Georgia 30339         |***    /    ***| Mike Holland/HPATC/03 Phone: (404) 850-2449          |***** /   *****|  Telnet: 1-850-2449

Response:

>> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then?

Ever noticed how amazons always love fattening things?  Anyway, all four of our birds love peanut butter sandwiches.  We make them on wheat bread so we can pretend it is good for them.  I’m sure the protein is actually good for them, but peanut butter is high in fat.  Our amazons and grey are allowed 1/4 of a sandwich each.  We let our macaw have up to a half (I get whatever is left). It is definitely one of their favorite treats. Susan

Response:

    Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura We make 8 little peanut butter "sliders" every other morning: a small peanut butter sandwich with bird vitamins mixed in. The little twerps don’t even know the vitamins are there. It’s nice to win one now & then… –Doug — Douglas Roberts, TSA-DO/SA     | Los Alamos National Laboratory | All good work is done in defiance (505)667-4569                  |

Response:

Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge now and then? Thanks – Maura

Response:

+ You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted + raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. My cockatiels turned their beaks up at it. Shelled peanuts, too. James

Response:

My vet advised me to use peanut butter only as a vehicle to get medicines into an ailing bird. Otherwise it is too fattening for continued good health of the bird. TTFN A – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…. > mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them > busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

I forgot to mention, my vet told be it was too fattening to give often, so it is a very rare treat and I spread it thinly all over the spoon to make it last longer. if memmory serves correctly, this was a very young bird in the original message. I dont remember about their nutritional needs, too many years ago. carie

Response:

I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and the birds don’t know the difference!

Response:

: I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very : fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and : the birds don’t know the difference! I agree, nut butters (don’t forget the yummy ones like cashew butter and almond butter!) are good as part of a balanced diet, in moderation. More of a treat. I prefer to use the ‘natural’ kind, where the only ingredient on the label are: the nuts. No salt, sugars or extra hydrogenated oils to keep it mixed. So when you see these butters, the oil may be seperated out somewhat is the jar. This is fine: just flip it upside down for a bit and then stir it in and refrigerate. Try them: they’re wonderful! Laura Scudders sells a natural peanut butter in the larger chain stores. Otherwise, try your local health food stores for the other kinds. Kelly Flynn

Response:

My vet has said the same thing about peanut butter. Use peanut butter in small amounts and not everyday. A treat here or there is fine… Rob. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. > I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as > they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can > develop > the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a > vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: > http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm > I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not > getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you > should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs > a > balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be > helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested > in > avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best > for > your young and growing grey. > There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian > nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: > http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more > information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will > help > you with any more nutrition questions you may have. > Gloria

Response:

   Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays)    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any advice would be appreciated                                                                  thank you

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any > advice would be appreciated

Sure.  Just keep in mind peanut butter is fattening. You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. Kevin — http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter….

mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can develop the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs a balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested in avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best for your young and growing grey. There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will help you with any more nutrition questions you may have. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food > and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his > food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same > size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more > fat…..any > advice would be appreciated >                                                                  thank > you

Response:

> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then? > Thanks – Maura

Absolutely! — LIZ

Response:

:     Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe :     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura Our two greys (Kiwi the CAG and Gizmo the TAG), White Capped Pionus (Hobie) and our Severe Macaw (Yes he’s stuck on the name Rambo which we hate) all love peanuts.  We limit the number they get due to the fat content but I imagine that peanut butter is no worse (or better).  So if your bird loves it, why not let him have limited amounts. — Mike Holland                   |*****  /  *****|  Internet: 2015 South Park Place          |*   / / /_/   *|  HPDESK: Atlanta, Georgia 30339         |***    /    ***| Mike Holland/HPATC/03 Phone: (404) 850-2449          |***** /   *****|  Telnet: 1-850-2449

Response:

>> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then?

Ever noticed how amazons always love fattening things?  Anyway, all four of our birds love peanut butter sandwiches.  We make them on wheat bread so we can pretend it is good for them.  I’m sure the protein is actually good for them, but peanut butter is high in fat.  Our amazons and grey are allowed 1/4 of a sandwich each.  We let our macaw have up to a half (I get whatever is left). It is definitely one of their favorite treats. Susan

Response:

    Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura We make 8 little peanut butter "sliders" every other morning: a small peanut butter sandwich with bird vitamins mixed in. The little twerps don’t even know the vitamins are there. It’s nice to win one now & then… –Doug — Douglas Roberts, TSA-DO/SA     | Los Alamos National Laboratory | All good work is done in defiance (505)667-4569                  |

Response:

Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge now and then? Thanks – Maura

Response:

+ You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted + raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. My cockatiels turned their beaks up at it. Shelled peanuts, too. James

Response:

My vet advised me to use peanut butter only as a vehicle to get medicines into an ailing bird. Otherwise it is too fattening for continued good health of the bird. TTFN A – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…. > mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them > busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

I forgot to mention, my vet told be it was too fattening to give often, so it is a very rare treat and I spread it thinly all over the spoon to make it last longer. if memmory serves correctly, this was a very young bird in the original message. I dont remember about their nutritional needs, too many years ago. carie

Response:

I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and the birds don’t know the difference!

Response:

: I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very : fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and : the birds don’t know the difference! I agree, nut butters (don’t forget the yummy ones like cashew butter and almond butter!) are good as part of a balanced diet, in moderation. More of a treat. I prefer to use the ‘natural’ kind, where the only ingredient on the label are: the nuts. No salt, sugars or extra hydrogenated oils to keep it mixed. So when you see these butters, the oil may be seperated out somewhat is the jar. This is fine: just flip it upside down for a bit and then stir it in and refrigerate. Try them: they’re wonderful! Laura Scudders sells a natural peanut butter in the larger chain stores. Otherwise, try your local health food stores for the other kinds. Kelly Flynn

Response:

My vet has said the same thing about peanut butter. Use peanut butter in small amounts and not everyday. A treat here or there is fine… Rob. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. > I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as > they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can > develop > the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a > vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: > http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm > I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not > getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you > should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs > a > balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be > helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested > in > avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best > for > your young and growing grey. > There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian > nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: > http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more > information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will > help > you with any more nutrition questions you may have. > Gloria

Response:

   Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays)    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any advice would be appreciated                                                                  thank you

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any > advice would be appreciated

Sure.  Just keep in mind peanut butter is fattening. You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. Kevin — http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter….

mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can develop the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs a balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested in avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best for your young and growing grey. There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will help you with any more nutrition questions you may have. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food > and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his > food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same > size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more > fat…..any > advice would be appreciated >                                                                  thank > you

Response:

> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then? > Thanks – Maura

Absolutely! — LIZ

Response:

:     Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe :     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura Our two greys (Kiwi the CAG and Gizmo the TAG), White Capped Pionus (Hobie) and our Severe Macaw (Yes he’s stuck on the name Rambo which we hate) all love peanuts.  We limit the number they get due to the fat content but I imagine that peanut butter is no worse (or better).  So if your bird loves it, why not let him have limited amounts. — Mike Holland                   |*****  /  *****|  Internet: 2015 South Park Place          |*   / / /_/   *|  HPDESK: Atlanta, Georgia 30339         |***    /    ***| Mike Holland/HPATC/03 Phone: (404) 850-2449          |***** /   *****|  Telnet: 1-850-2449

Response:

>> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then?

Ever noticed how amazons always love fattening things?  Anyway, all four of our birds love peanut butter sandwiches.  We make them on wheat bread so we can pretend it is good for them.  I’m sure the protein is actually good for them, but peanut butter is high in fat.  Our amazons and grey are allowed 1/4 of a sandwich each.  We let our macaw have up to a half (I get whatever is left). It is definitely one of their favorite treats. Susan

Response:

    Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura We make 8 little peanut butter "sliders" every other morning: a small peanut butter sandwich with bird vitamins mixed in. The little twerps don’t even know the vitamins are there. It’s nice to win one now & then… –Doug — Douglas Roberts, TSA-DO/SA     | Los Alamos National Laboratory | All good work is done in defiance (505)667-4569                  |

Response:

Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge now and then? Thanks – Maura

Response:

+ You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted + raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. My cockatiels turned their beaks up at it. Shelled peanuts, too. James

Response:

My vet advised me to use peanut butter only as a vehicle to get medicines into an ailing bird. Otherwise it is too fattening for continued good health of the bird. TTFN A – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…. > mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them > busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

I forgot to mention, my vet told be it was too fattening to give often, so it is a very rare treat and I spread it thinly all over the spoon to make it last longer. if memmory serves correctly, this was a very young bird in the original message. I dont remember about their nutritional needs, too many years ago. carie

Response:

I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and the birds don’t know the difference!

Response:

: I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very : fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and : the birds don’t know the difference! I agree, nut butters (don’t forget the yummy ones like cashew butter and almond butter!) are good as part of a balanced diet, in moderation. More of a treat. I prefer to use the ‘natural’ kind, where the only ingredient on the label are: the nuts. No salt, sugars or extra hydrogenated oils to keep it mixed. So when you see these butters, the oil may be seperated out somewhat is the jar. This is fine: just flip it upside down for a bit and then stir it in and refrigerate. Try them: they’re wonderful! Laura Scudders sells a natural peanut butter in the larger chain stores. Otherwise, try your local health food stores for the other kinds. Kelly Flynn

Response:

My vet has said the same thing about peanut butter. Use peanut butter in small amounts and not everyday. A treat here or there is fine… Rob. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. > I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as > they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can > develop > the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a > vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: > http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm > I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not > getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you > should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs > a > balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be > helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested > in > avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best > for > your young and growing grey. > There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian > nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: > http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more > information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will > help > you with any more nutrition questions you may have. > Gloria

Response:

   Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays)    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any advice would be appreciated                                                                  thank you

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any > advice would be appreciated

Sure.  Just keep in mind peanut butter is fattening. You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. Kevin — http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter….

mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can develop the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs a balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested in avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best for your young and growing grey. There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will help you with any more nutrition questions you may have. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food > and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his > food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same > size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more > fat…..any > advice would be appreciated >                                                                  thank > you

Response:

> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then? > Thanks – Maura

Absolutely! — LIZ

Response:

:     Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe :     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura Our two greys (Kiwi the CAG and Gizmo the TAG), White Capped Pionus (Hobie) and our Severe Macaw (Yes he’s stuck on the name Rambo which we hate) all love peanuts.  We limit the number they get due to the fat content but I imagine that peanut butter is no worse (or better).  So if your bird loves it, why not let him have limited amounts. — Mike Holland                   |*****  /  *****|  Internet: 2015 South Park Place          |*   / / /_/   *|  HPDESK: Atlanta, Georgia 30339         |***    /    ***| Mike Holland/HPATC/03 Phone: (404) 850-2449          |***** /   *****|  Telnet: 1-850-2449

Response:

>> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then?

Ever noticed how amazons always love fattening things?  Anyway, all four of our birds love peanut butter sandwiches.  We make them on wheat bread so we can pretend it is good for them.  I’m sure the protein is actually good for them, but peanut butter is high in fat.  Our amazons and grey are allowed 1/4 of a sandwich each.  We let our macaw have up to a half (I get whatever is left). It is definitely one of their favorite treats. Susan

Response:

    Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura We make 8 little peanut butter "sliders" every other morning: a small peanut butter sandwich with bird vitamins mixed in. The little twerps don’t even know the vitamins are there. It’s nice to win one now & then… –Doug — Douglas Roberts, TSA-DO/SA     | Los Alamos National Laboratory | All good work is done in defiance (505)667-4569                  |

Response:

Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge now and then? Thanks – Maura

Response:

+ You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted + raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. My cockatiels turned their beaks up at it. Shelled peanuts, too. James

Response:

My vet advised me to use peanut butter only as a vehicle to get medicines into an ailing bird. Otherwise it is too fattening for continued good health of the bird. TTFN A – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…. > mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them > busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

I forgot to mention, my vet told be it was too fattening to give often, so it is a very rare treat and I spread it thinly all over the spoon to make it last longer. if memmory serves correctly, this was a very young bird in the original message. I dont remember about their nutritional needs, too many years ago. carie

Response:

I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and the birds don’t know the difference!

Response:

: I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very : fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and : the birds don’t know the difference! I agree, nut butters (don’t forget the yummy ones like cashew butter and almond butter!) are good as part of a balanced diet, in moderation. More of a treat. I prefer to use the ‘natural’ kind, where the only ingredient on the label are: the nuts. No salt, sugars or extra hydrogenated oils to keep it mixed. So when you see these butters, the oil may be seperated out somewhat is the jar. This is fine: just flip it upside down for a bit and then stir it in and refrigerate. Try them: they’re wonderful! Laura Scudders sells a natural peanut butter in the larger chain stores. Otherwise, try your local health food stores for the other kinds. Kelly Flynn

Response:

My vet has said the same thing about peanut butter. Use peanut butter in small amounts and not everyday. A treat here or there is fine… Rob. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. > I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as > they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can > develop > the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a > vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: > http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm > I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not > getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you > should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs > a > balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be > helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested > in > avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best > for > your young and growing grey. > There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian > nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: > http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more > information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will > help > you with any more nutrition questions you may have. > Gloria

Response:

   Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays)    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any advice would be appreciated                                                                  thank you

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any > advice would be appreciated

Sure.  Just keep in mind peanut butter is fattening. You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. Kevin — http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter….

mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can develop the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs a balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested in avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best for your young and growing grey. There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will help you with any more nutrition questions you may have. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food > and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his > food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same > size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more > fat…..any > advice would be appreciated >                                                                  thank > you

Response:

> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then? > Thanks – Maura

Absolutely! — LIZ

Response:

:     Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe :     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura Our two greys (Kiwi the CAG and Gizmo the TAG), White Capped Pionus (Hobie) and our Severe Macaw (Yes he’s stuck on the name Rambo which we hate) all love peanuts.  We limit the number they get due to the fat content but I imagine that peanut butter is no worse (or better).  So if your bird loves it, why not let him have limited amounts. — Mike Holland                   |*****  /  *****|  Internet: 2015 South Park Place          |*   / / /_/   *|  HPDESK: Atlanta, Georgia 30339         |***    /    ***| Mike Holland/HPATC/03 Phone: (404) 850-2449          |***** /   *****|  Telnet: 1-850-2449

Response:

>> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then?

Ever noticed how amazons always love fattening things?  Anyway, all four of our birds love peanut butter sandwiches.  We make them on wheat bread so we can pretend it is good for them.  I’m sure the protein is actually good for them, but peanut butter is high in fat.  Our amazons and grey are allowed 1/4 of a sandwich each.  We let our macaw have up to a half (I get whatever is left). It is definitely one of their favorite treats. Susan

Response:

    Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura We make 8 little peanut butter "sliders" every other morning: a small peanut butter sandwich with bird vitamins mixed in. The little twerps don’t even know the vitamins are there. It’s nice to win one now & then… –Doug — Douglas Roberts, TSA-DO/SA     | Los Alamos National Laboratory | All good work is done in defiance (505)667-4569                  |

Response:

Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge now and then? Thanks – Maura

Response:

+ You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted + raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. My cockatiels turned their beaks up at it. Shelled peanuts, too. James

Response:

My vet advised me to use peanut butter only as a vehicle to get medicines into an ailing bird. Otherwise it is too fattening for continued good health of the bird. TTFN A – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…. > mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them > busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

I forgot to mention, my vet told be it was too fattening to give often, so it is a very rare treat and I spread it thinly all over the spoon to make it last longer. if memmory serves correctly, this was a very young bird in the original message. I dont remember about their nutritional needs, too many years ago. carie

Response:

I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and the birds don’t know the difference!

Response:

: I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very : fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and : the birds don’t know the difference! I agree, nut butters (don’t forget the yummy ones like cashew butter and almond butter!) are good as part of a balanced diet, in moderation. More of a treat. I prefer to use the ‘natural’ kind, where the only ingredient on the label are: the nuts. No salt, sugars or extra hydrogenated oils to keep it mixed. So when you see these butters, the oil may be seperated out somewhat is the jar. This is fine: just flip it upside down for a bit and then stir it in and refrigerate. Try them: they’re wonderful! Laura Scudders sells a natural peanut butter in the larger chain stores. Otherwise, try your local health food stores for the other kinds. Kelly Flynn

Response:

My vet has said the same thing about peanut butter. Use peanut butter in small amounts and not everyday. A treat here or there is fine… Rob. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. > I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as > they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can > develop > the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a > vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: > http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm > I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not > getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you > should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs > a > balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be > helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested > in > avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best > for > your young and growing grey. > There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian > nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: > http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more > information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will > help > you with any more nutrition questions you may have. > Gloria

Response:

   Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays)    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any advice would be appreciated                                                                  thank you

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any > advice would be appreciated

Sure.  Just keep in mind peanut butter is fattening. You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. Kevin — http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter….

mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can develop the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs a balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested in avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best for your young and growing grey. There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will help you with any more nutrition questions you may have. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food > and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his > food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same > size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more > fat…..any > advice would be appreciated >                                                                  thank > you

Response:

> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then? > Thanks – Maura

Absolutely! — LIZ

Response:

:     Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe :     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura Our two greys (Kiwi the CAG and Gizmo the TAG), White Capped Pionus (Hobie) and our Severe Macaw (Yes he’s stuck on the name Rambo which we hate) all love peanuts.  We limit the number they get due to the fat content but I imagine that peanut butter is no worse (or better).  So if your bird loves it, why not let him have limited amounts. — Mike Holland                   |*****  /  *****|  Internet: 2015 South Park Place          |*   / / /_/   *|  HPDESK: Atlanta, Georgia 30339         |***    /    ***| Mike Holland/HPATC/03 Phone: (404) 850-2449          |***** /   *****|  Telnet: 1-850-2449

Response:

>> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then?

Ever noticed how amazons always love fattening things?  Anyway, all four of our birds love peanut butter sandwiches.  We make them on wheat bread so we can pretend it is good for them.  I’m sure the protein is actually good for them, but peanut butter is high in fat.  Our amazons and grey are allowed 1/4 of a sandwich each.  We let our macaw have up to a half (I get whatever is left). It is definitely one of their favorite treats. Susan

Response:

    Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura We make 8 little peanut butter "sliders" every other morning: a small peanut butter sandwich with bird vitamins mixed in. The little twerps don’t even know the vitamins are there. It’s nice to win one now & then… –Doug — Douglas Roberts, TSA-DO/SA     | Los Alamos National Laboratory | All good work is done in defiance (505)667-4569                  |

Response:

Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge now and then? Thanks – Maura

Response:

+ You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted + raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. My cockatiels turned their beaks up at it. Shelled peanuts, too. James

Response:

My vet advised me to use peanut butter only as a vehicle to get medicines into an ailing bird. Otherwise it is too fattening for continued good health of the bird. TTFN A – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…. > mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them > busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

I forgot to mention, my vet told be it was too fattening to give often, so it is a very rare treat and I spread it thinly all over the spoon to make it last longer. if memmory serves correctly, this was a very young bird in the original message. I dont remember about their nutritional needs, too many years ago. carie

Response:

I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and the birds don’t know the difference!

Response:

: I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very : fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and : the birds don’t know the difference! I agree, nut butters (don’t forget the yummy ones like cashew butter and almond butter!) are good as part of a balanced diet, in moderation. More of a treat. I prefer to use the ‘natural’ kind, where the only ingredient on the label are: the nuts. No salt, sugars or extra hydrogenated oils to keep it mixed. So when you see these butters, the oil may be seperated out somewhat is the jar. This is fine: just flip it upside down for a bit and then stir it in and refrigerate. Try them: they’re wonderful! Laura Scudders sells a natural peanut butter in the larger chain stores. Otherwise, try your local health food stores for the other kinds. Kelly Flynn

Response:

My vet has said the same thing about peanut butter. Use peanut butter in small amounts and not everyday. A treat here or there is fine… Rob. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. > I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as > they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can > develop > the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a > vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: > http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm > I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not > getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you > should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs > a > balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be > helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested > in > avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best > for > your young and growing grey. > There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian > nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: > http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more > information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will > help > you with any more nutrition questions you may have. > Gloria

Response:

   Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays)    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any advice would be appreciated                                                                  thank you

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any > advice would be appreciated

Sure.  Just keep in mind peanut butter is fattening. You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. Kevin — http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter….

mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can develop the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs a balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested in avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best for your young and growing grey. There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will help you with any more nutrition questions you may have. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food > and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his > food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same > size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more > fat…..any > advice would be appreciated >                                                                  thank > you

Response:

> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then? > Thanks – Maura

Absolutely! — LIZ

Response:

:     Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe :     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura Our two greys (Kiwi the CAG and Gizmo the TAG), White Capped Pionus (Hobie) and our Severe Macaw (Yes he’s stuck on the name Rambo which we hate) all love peanuts.  We limit the number they get due to the fat content but I imagine that peanut butter is no worse (or better).  So if your bird loves it, why not let him have limited amounts. — Mike Holland                   |*****  /  *****|  Internet: 2015 South Park Place          |*   / / /_/   *|  HPDESK: Atlanta, Georgia 30339         |***    /    ***| Mike Holland/HPATC/03 Phone: (404) 850-2449          |***** /   *****|  Telnet: 1-850-2449

Response:

>> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then?

Ever noticed how amazons always love fattening things?  Anyway, all four of our birds love peanut butter sandwiches.  We make them on wheat bread so we can pretend it is good for them.  I’m sure the protein is actually good for them, but peanut butter is high in fat.  Our amazons and grey are allowed 1/4 of a sandwich each.  We let our macaw have up to a half (I get whatever is left). It is definitely one of their favorite treats. Susan

Response:

    Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura We make 8 little peanut butter "sliders" every other morning: a small peanut butter sandwich with bird vitamins mixed in. The little twerps don’t even know the vitamins are there. It’s nice to win one now & then… –Doug — Douglas Roberts, TSA-DO/SA     | Los Alamos National Laboratory | All good work is done in defiance (505)667-4569                  |

Response:

Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge now and then? Thanks – Maura

Response:

+ You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted + raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. My cockatiels turned their beaks up at it. Shelled peanuts, too. James

Response:

My vet advised me to use peanut butter only as a vehicle to get medicines into an ailing bird. Otherwise it is too fattening for continued good health of the bird. TTFN A – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…. > mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them > busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

I forgot to mention, my vet told be it was too fattening to give often, so it is a very rare treat and I spread it thinly all over the spoon to make it last longer. if memmory serves correctly, this was a very young bird in the original message. I dont remember about their nutritional needs, too many years ago. carie

Response:

I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and the birds don’t know the difference!

Response:

: I use peanut butter (and peanuts) as a special treat too….it is very : fattening – but I do buy the low-fat kind.  Cuts back on the saturated fats and : the birds don’t know the difference! I agree, nut butters (don’t forget the yummy ones like cashew butter and almond butter!) are good as part of a balanced diet, in moderation. More of a treat. I prefer to use the ‘natural’ kind, where the only ingredient on the label are: the nuts. No salt, sugars or extra hydrogenated oils to keep it mixed. So when you see these butters, the oil may be seperated out somewhat is the jar. This is fine: just flip it upside down for a bit and then stir it in and refrigerate. Try them: they’re wonderful! Laura Scudders sells a natural peanut butter in the larger chain stores. Otherwise, try your local health food stores for the other kinds. Kelly Flynn

Response:

My vet has said the same thing about peanut butter. Use peanut butter in small amounts and not everyday. A treat here or there is fine… Rob. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. > I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as > they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can > develop > the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a > vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: > http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm > I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not > getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you > should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs > a > balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be > helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested > in > avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best > for > your young and growing grey. > There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian > nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: > http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more > information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will > help > you with any more nutrition questions you may have. > Gloria

Response:

   Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays)    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any advice would be appreciated                                                                  thank you

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more fat…..any > advice would be appreciated

Sure.  Just keep in mind peanut butter is fattening. You can spread the peanut butter on bagels (my severe likes toasted raisin bagels), crackers, or just a spoon. Kevin — http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/

Response:

>    Can i feed my cag peanut butter….

mine love peanut butter spread thinly all over a spoon it keeps them busy but they make a mess surprise surprise

Response:

Peanut butter is fine in in small amounts, it is high in fat. I’ve been advised by my avian vet not to feed birds peanuts at all as they, can contain an aspergillus fungi.  As a result, birds can develop the infection aspergillosis. This infection needs to be treated by a vet.  To read more on aspergillus fungi go here: http://fungus.utmb.edu/f-atlas/aspergil.htm I would have an avian vet rule out the fact that your bird is not getting enough fat.  Your grey is very young and still growing and you should be monitoring his weight if you have these concerns.  He needs a balanced diet and too much of anything at this young age would not be helpful.  Check with an avian vet, particularly on who is interested in avian nutrition to help you plan a balanced diet that would be best for your young and growing grey. There are many websites that offer information and articles on avian nutrition.  One site in particular is birdsnways: http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/artgen.htm#Terms.  This site has more information than you care to read about birds and I’m sure it will help you with any more nutrition questions you may have. Gloria – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >    Can i feed my cag peanut butter…..it realy hates the pellet food > and at 3 > 1/2 month it has a problem eating the peanuts and pellets in his > food….just > pickout the small sunflower seeds and misc seeds of the same > size….leaves all > the bigger nuts and pellets(feed fiesta mix for grays) >    loves grapes and mango….but would like to see it eat some more > fat…..any > advice would be appreciated >                                                                  thank > you

Response:

> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then? > Thanks – Maura

Absolutely! — LIZ

Response:

:     Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe :     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura Our two greys (Kiwi the CAG and Gizmo the TAG), White Capped Pionus (Hobie) and our Severe Macaw (Yes he’s stuck on the name Rambo which we hate) all love peanuts.  We limit the number they get due to the fat content but I imagine that peanut butter is no worse (or better).  So if your bird loves it, why not let him have limited amounts. — Mike Holland                   |*****  /  *****|  Internet: 2015 South Park Place          |*   / / /_/   *|  HPDESK: Atlanta, Georgia 30339         |***    /    ***| Mike Holland/HPATC/03 Phone: (404) 850-2449          |***** /   *****|  Telnet: 1-850-2449

Response:

>> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge > now and then?

Ever noticed how amazons always love fattening things?  Anyway, all four of our birds love peanut butter sandwiches.  We make them on wheat bread so we can pretend it is good for them.  I’m sure the protein is actually good for them, but peanut butter is high in fat.  Our amazons and grey are allowed 1/4 of a sandwich each.  We let our macaw have up to a half (I get whatever is left). It is definitely one of their favorite treats. Susan

Response:

    Maura> Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe     Maura> to let him indulge now and then?  Thanks – Maura We make 8 little peanut butter "sliders" every other morning: a small peanut butter sandwich with bird vitamins mixed in. The little twerps don’t even know the vitamins are there. It’s nice to win one now & then… –Doug — Douglas Roberts, TSA-DO/SA     | Los Alamos National Laboratory | All good work is done in defiance (505)667-4569                  |

Response:

Hi! My orange-winged amazon loves peanut butter. Is it safe to let him indulge now and then? Thanks – Maura

Response:

Question:

> http://tinyurl.com/6asa > That was very fun!  Your ears should have been burning ; – )   > — MZ

Is that what it was?  I though it was just all the heat from the dryers in the basement  while I was doing the laundry – as you all were lunching.   First time my ears were on fire down there this time of year.  Yup, must have been the talking. — Nann remove the Gator cheer to email me I like nonsense; it wakes up the brain cells. – Dr Suess

Response:

>—-who thinks this is the first time she’s seen pictures of Mary Z. >that didn’t include a boat of some type ;o)

ROFL probably so!  I am an aquaholic with no interest in the 12 step process. Visit my website: http://www.mzuschlag.com

Response:

I am so jealous.   I love Portland.  And to meet all of you face to face would have been awesome.  But I DO know you.  I know your hearts.  And that is more important.  Perhaps someday.  Perhaps in JULY? Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’.  We’re all in this together."  Red Green

Response:

That would be WONDERFUL, Char!!!!  I will be in Maryland end of May, down in Coos Bay, OR for graduation of a grandson first week of June and then last week of July and first week of August will be traveling but almost any other time I will be here.  The restaurant we met at was super about just letting us sit and visit and not bothering us.  I was impressed. — DeLores Wilson Hillsboro, OR

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am so jealous.   I love Portland.  And to meet all of you face to face would > have been awesome.  But I DO know you.  I know your hearts.  And that is more > important.  Perhaps someday.  Perhaps in JULY? > Char > "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’. >  We’re all in this together."  Red Green

Response:

Very nice pictures, all! And it looks like an awesome day!!! I hope that you had tons of fun! Rose

Response:

> It was SO much fun to meet some of you for the first time.  What a wonderful > group of people!  If you would like to see a few photos click on this > website: > http://www.fototime.com/inv/709854C485525EE > — > DeLores Wilson > Hillsboro, OR

Thanks for the pictures! You look like you’re having so much fun, though that’s hardly a surpise.  LOL  it’s so nice to put faces to the names. — Nann remove the Gator cheer to email me I like nonsense; it wakes up the brain cells. – Dr Suess

Response:

> And here are my photos…… > Only the most flattering ones, of course. > http://community.webshots.com/album/64614829UzBzKn > Kelly C.;o)

Oh, cool!  More photos!  (We east-coast’ers have to take our excitement where we can get it amidst all the snow and rain.) — Nann remove the Gator cheer to email me I like nonsense; it wakes up the brain cells. – Dr Suess

Response:

>And here are my photos…… >Only the most flattering ones, of course.

*snort* a gaggle of gimps – LOL – I’m going to steal that one! Love it. I just knew you guys would have a great time. Rachel’s such a cutie! ~Kimmy <—-who thinks this is the first time she’s seen pictures of Mary Z. that didn’t include a boat of some type ;o)

Response:

> I have to admit I stopped at REI for a while!  I just uploaded my > pics, darn Kelly for some reason the one I took of you didn’t come > out. > http://tinyurl.com/6asa > That was very fun!  Your ears should have been burning ; – ) > — MZ

Not to worry, Mary….you’ll notice I only posted 4 of the many photos taken with my camera. I’m glad you got such a good one of KC. The one I took was totally dark. Kelly C.;o)

Response:

Nice photos Kelly C and Mary Z!  Thanks! — DeLores Wilson Hillsboro, OR

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->It was SO much fun to meet some of you for the first time.  What a wonderful >group of people!  If you would like to see a few photos click on this >website: >http://www.fototime.com/inv/709854C485525EE > I have to admit I stopped at REI for a while!  I just uploaded my > pics, darn Kelly for some reason the one I took of you didn’t come > out. > http://tinyurl.com/6asa > That was very fun!  Your ears should have been burning ; – ) > — MZ > Visit my website: > http://www.mzuschlag.com

Response:

>Not to worry, Mary….you’ll notice I only posted 4 of the many photos taken >with my camera. I’m glad you got such a good one of KC. The one I took was >totally dark.

Rachel did a great job of the group shot.  I wish she had taken one with mine.  – MZ Visit my website: http://www.mzuschlag.com

Response:

She told us it was great!  lol  She made us walk to the back of the building to just the right spot for her to take the picture.  She is a very bright little 8 year old.  Kelly has done an obviously great parenting job. — DeLores Wilson Hillsboro, OR

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Not to worry, Mary….you’ll notice I only posted 4 of the many photos taken >with my camera. I’m glad you got such a good one of KC. The one I took was >totally dark. > Rachel did a great job of the group shot.  I wish she had taken one > with mine.  – MZ > Visit my website: > http://www.mzuschlag.com

Response:

Anybody that wants a copy of the group photo send me your preferred email addy and I will send out a lightly cropped version. Please put the name you post with in the subject line. If I don’t recognize it, I won’t send the photo. Kelly C.;o)

Response:

> She told us it was great!  lol  She made us walk to the back of the building > to just the right spot for her to take the picture.  She is a very bright > little 8 year old.  Kelly has done an obviously great parenting job. > — > DeLores Wilson

You are so sweet. I don’t really think I can take a lot of credit for her basic personality. I just focus on the important stuff, like not letting her act like a monkey in public.LOL Rachel is a bright, outgoing, artistic person and is becoming more fun to be with the older she gets. Maybe we can just skip the teen years and get to the good stuff…… Kelly C.;o)

Response:

>Anybody that wants a copy of the group photo send me your preferred email >addy and I will send out a lightly cropped version. >Please put the name you post with in the subject line. If I don’t recognize >it, I won’t send the photo.

I saved it from Webshots, thanks.  The "surprise" is ready I wish you could see it.  – MZ Visit my website: http://www.mzuschlag.com

Response:

> Tell Rachel she takes a nicely framed picture. > Duckie

I will, but you wouldn’t believe the amount of directing she would like to do for each shot!lol Kelly C.;o)

Response:

>It was SO much fun to meet some of you for the first time.  What a wonderful >group of people!  If you would like to see a few photos click on this >website: >http://www.fototime.com/inv/709854C485525EE

I have to admit I stopped at REI for a while!  I just uploaded my pics, darn Kelly for some reason the one I took of you didn’t come out.   http://tinyurl.com/6asa That was very fun!  Your ears should have been burning ; – )   — MZ Visit my website: http://www.mzuschlag.com

Response:

lol  It’s those artistic tendencies coming into play!  She took some nice pics on both your and Delores’ camera! K.C. Washington State in the beautiful Columbia River Gorge

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Tell Rachel she takes a nicely framed picture. > Duckie > I will, but you wouldn’t believe the amount of directing she would like to > do for each shot!lol > Kelly C.;o)

Response:

>I will, but you wouldn’t believe the amount of directing she would like to >do for each shot!lol

She was definitely a good director!  She managed to keep her fingers away from the lens LOL!  – MZ Visit my website: http://www.mzuschlag.com

Response:

It was SO much fun to meet some of you for the first time.  What a wonderful group of people!  If you would like to see a few photos click on this website: http://www.fototime.com/inv/709854C485525EE — DeLores Wilson Hillsboro, OR

Response:

And here are my photos…… Only the most flattering ones, of course. http://community.webshots.com/album/64614829UzBzKn Kelly C.;o)

Response:

What fun!!!  Thanks for posting these Delores. Duckie > It was SO much fun to meet some of you for the first time.  What a wonderful > group of people!  If you would like to see a few photos click on this > website: > http://www.fototime.com/inv/709854C485525EE > — > DeLores Wilson > Hillsboro, OR

–   _(‘>  (_<_)           _   _(‘< -quack  (_<_)     _    __(‘< *QUACK!* <_{__)   _(‘< "|,,|_"  (_<_)

Response:

Tell Rachel she takes a nicely framed picture. Duckie > And here are my photos…… > Only the most flattering ones, of course. > http://community.webshots.com/album/64614829UzBzKn > Kelly C.;o)

–   _(‘>  (_<_)           _   _(‘< -quack  (_<_)     _    __(‘< *QUACK!* <_{__)   _(‘< "|,,|_"  (_<_)

Response:

Very cool.  I have never seen Delores or KC-so now I have even more faces to put with spirits- M

Response:

And that is almost the best part. Meeting those you talk with daily and knowing who they are before they tell you, that is the best part. Duckie > Very cool.  I have never seen Delores or KC-so now I have even more faces to > put with spirits- > M

–   _(‘>  (_<_)           _   _(‘< -quack  (_<_)     _    __(‘< *QUACK!* <_{__)   _(‘< "|,,|_"  (_<_)

Response:

Question:

I have a step granddaughter who just loves animals.  I got her the National Geographic for kids and she’s estactic (oh heck – she’s happy) Loujean – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->and don’t forget the computer, instant messaging, text messaging on the >phone, music and BOYS!

Response:

>I have a step granddaughter who just loves animals.  I got her the >National Geographic for kids and she’s estactic (oh heck – she’s >happy) >Loujean

I remember at that age reading dog and horse books.  You know, like "Lad-A Dog","Lassie Come Home"  "My Friend Flicka", "A Red Pony", etc.  And my niece who just turned 13 went through a similar period. Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’.  We’re all in this together."  Red Green

Response:

Hi Diane, > wow, you have a lot of granddaughters, alex! thanks for this tip. > i’ll try it. > diane > visit my website at http://www.dianechamberlain.com

Actually only 3 are biological & 3 are step. I also have 4 biological grandsons & 1 step grandson. My 6 children aren’t as productive as I was. :) GramPaHugs, Alex, —  Any information is included for informational  or entertainment purposes only,  No endorsement is implied or intended.  Before taking any supplement check with your pharmacist for drug interactions. * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w   M/SP Mn * Care giver to THE SACRED TEMPLE CATS of the Kingdom of W.H.I.N.E. * <a href="http://home.mn.rr.com/apbiii/whine.html">AOL Click</a> * Medical Links for Fibromyalgia, Arthritis, ME/CFIDS, * <a href="http://home.mn.rr.com/apbiii/medical.htm">AOL Click</a> * Don’t worry about life, *  you’re not going to survive it anyway

Response:

>I would say tune winradio into an Az radio station & see what type of >music is popular there & maybe look at some kids web sites.

wow, you have a lot of granddaughters, alex! thanks for this tip. i’ll try it. diane visit my website at http://www.dianechamberlain.com

Response:

I have an 11 year old great niece and I can tell you 11 year old girls are far more advanced than we were at that age.  She’s into cheerleading (competition with stunts), gymnastics,  softball (she plays on tournament teams),  roller skating, talking on the phone,  make-up and BOYS! HTH Gloria

> hello, my dear consultants, > any of you have an 11-year-old daughter you could tell me about? my character > lives in arizona, and i frankly don’t have a clue what kids that age are into > these days. > diane > visit my website at http://www.dianechamberlain.com

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

and don’t forget the computer, instant messaging, text messaging on the phone, music and BOYS! — Cyberhugs, DianeW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have an 11 year old great niece and I can tell you 11 year old girls are > far more advanced than we were at that age.  She’s into cheerleading > (competition with stunts), gymnastics,  softball (she plays on tournament > teams),  roller skating, talking on the phone,  make-up and BOYS! > HTH > Gloria > hello, my dear consultants, > any of you have an 11-year-old daughter you could tell me about? my > character > lives in arizona, and i frankly don’t have a clue what kids that age are > into > these days. > diane > visit my website at http://www.dianechamberlain.com > — > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Hi Diane, > hello, my dear consultants, > any of you have an 11-year-old daughter you could tell me about? my > character lives in arizona, and i frankly don’t have a clue what > kids that age are into these days. > diane > visit my website at http://www.dianechamberlain.com

That would depend on if she lives in the city or in the country & what her parents & friends are into. When my granddaughters were 11, Ashley Dec.,30,90 lives on a farm & was/is into Motocross, crafts & boy bands. Rheyannon Feb,06,90 lives in town near me & was/is into dressing & acting older & boy’s. Terran May.,29,92 also lives in town near me & is into books, crafts & country western music. My other granddaughters Mylynda 17, Ayla 8 & Kai Aria 6 don’t fit your age bracket. :) I would say tune winradio into an Az radio station & see what type of music is popular there & maybe look at some kids web sites. GramPaHugs, Alex, —  Any information is included for informational  or entertainment purposes only,  No endorsement is implied or intended.  Before taking any supplement check with your pharmacist for drug interactions. * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w   M/SP Mn * Care giver to THE SACRED TEMPLE CATS of the Kingdom of W.H.I.N.E. * <a href="http://home.mn.rr.com/apbiii/whine.html">AOL Click</a> * Medical Links for Fibromyalgia, Arthritis, ME/CFIDS, * <a href="http://home.mn.rr.com/apbiii/medical.htm">AOL Click</a> * Don’t worry about life, *  you’re not going to survive it anyway

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If I remember correctly, there was urge for grown up things like makeup and clothes and talking on the phone but they still climbed into Daddy’s lap for hugs and slept with their teddy bear. That was 17+ years ago. You need some more up to date advise I fear. Duckie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > hello, my dear consultants, > any of you have an 11-year-old daughter you could tell me about? my character > lives in arizona, and i frankly don’t have a clue what kids that age are into > these days. > diane > visit my website at http://www.dianechamberlain.com

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At 11 in our house it was N Sync. 11 was the start of the boy crazy era! ~KJ Akron, Ohio http://arthritisinsight.com Knowledge is power…support is essential. Tina’s Togs Quality Plus Size and Vintage Fashions http://www.stores.ebay.com/tinastogs

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hello, my dear consultants, any of you have an 11-year-old daughter you could tell me about? my character lives in arizona, and i frankly don’t have a clue what kids that age are into these days. diane visit my website at http://www.dianechamberlain.com

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