Pure Parents

Question:

>We found out that our daughter is sexually active with her boyfriend. >She is 17 and as a parent we think this is inmoral.

That’s your personal opinion. You shouldn’t force it on her. It’s her decision, and if she’s 17 then she’s old enough. Hopefully her boyfriend is a nice guy and she got to know him well first, and they approached the physical side slowly as they felt ready. >We want to somehow communicate to her of this inmorality

It’s only "immoral" in your opinion. Remember that. >and to persuade her to stop having sex until she is older. Aside from >the fact she could get a venereal desease or worse, AIDS.

That’s why using condoms is a sensible idea. >As parents we feel very angry

Your anger is your problem. Don’t make it hers. >and this makes it very difficult to talk to her in a civilized manner.

You’d better work on that, then. She could probably do with some trustworthy parents who wouldn’t judge her, or force their own arbitrary and unsubstantiated values upon her. Matthew

Response:

Thank you all for your input.  I think I got the answer to my concern.   Thx – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > We found out that our daughter is sexually active with her boyfriend. > She is 17 and as a parent we think this is inmoral.  We want to > somehow communicate to her of this inmorality and to persuade her to > stop having sex until she is older. Aside from the fact she could get > a venereal desease or worse, AIDS. As parents we feel very angry and > this makes it very difficult to talk to her in a civilized manner.  I > am looking for clues on how to deal with this. > Thank you.

Response:

We found out that our daughter is sexually active with her boyfriend. She is 17 and as a parent we think this is inmoral.  We want to somehow communicate to her of this inmorality and to persuade her to stop having sex until she is older. Aside from the fact she could get a venereal desease or worse, AIDS. As parents we feel very angry and this makes it very difficult to talk to her in a civilized manner.  I am looking for clues on how to deal with this. Thank you.

Response:

> We found out that our daughter is sexually active with her boyfriend. > She is 17 and as a parent we think this is inmoral.

She is 17.  You are not going to convince her to stop doing what she finds fun.  You have your moral standards, and there is nothing wrong with communicating to her those standards, but short of locking her up 24 hours a day, you are not going to control what she does. You are right to be concerned about disease, and also pregnancy.  It seems as if you do not know if she knows how to avoid both.  She may need you for guidance on these issues, and it would be responsible parenting to have her see her gynecologist for medical advice on contraception and disease control. It would not be a bad idea to speak with the boyfriend on these issues as well. You may have some success in avoiding an unwanted pregnancy or a disease. It is unlikely you will have success in imposing abstinence. Good luck.                    —Rob

Response:

> We found out that our daughter is sexually active with her boyfriend. > She is 17 and as a parent we think this is inmoral.  We want to > somehow communicate to her of this inmorality and to persuade her to > stop having sex until she is older. Aside from the fact she could get > a venereal desease or worse, AIDS. As parents we feel very angry and > this makes it very difficult to talk to her in a civilized manner.  I > am looking for clues on how to deal with this. > Thank you.

you are 10 years too late.  She is now an adult and the only possible influence you might have is to make sure that she knows how to protect herself from AIDS, other STDs and pregnancy.  If you don’t have a relationship in which you can talk with her about intimate issues – which includes moral values, self respect etc then there isn’t much you can do in this context to establish one.  If it is news to her that you think it is immoral to have sex, then you failed in some of your fundamental responsibilities as a parent.  If it isn’t news to her — then she has obviously made a different choice, which she is entitled to do.

Response:

I’m 20, I lost my virginity at 17 to a man I wasn’t dating by had been seeing on and off for about a year. Personally I don’t really believe in forcing values on anyone, which is what it appears that you are doing. If she’s a smart girl she’s using protection to prevent STDs, if not, than maybe you should talk to her about that. Did she come to you and talk about her sexual activity herself?  That demonstrates a huge amount of trust in you…..the worst possible thing my parents could have done in response to that would be to tell me what I was doing was IMMORAL–honestly, that would have resulted in a big F#ck you from me before I put on my shoes and left to see my boyfriend. I would definatly not call her bf and talk to him…..or his parents……this is an issue between you and your daughter (although I’m not convinced it should be…..)…. If you really want to talk to her I would sit her down and explain to her patiently and rationally that you don’t really agree with the choices she is making, and explain why (trust me, you’re going to need better reasons than the threat of STD’s…try the TRUTH)….  if you want her to listen you have to make it a fair/calm/discussion    if you bark at her it will resulted in a big F-you and out the door. Other than that, she’s 17…..There’s not alot you can really do short of kicking her out of the house, and trust me, don’t threaten to do it unless you’re really going to follow through it will result in alot of resentment, about the same amount as if you actually kick her out. A. — We Must Be the Change We Wish to See in the World–Ghandi

Response:

> We found out that our daughter is sexually active with her boyfriend. > She is 17 and as a parent we think this is inmoral.  We want to > somehow communicate to her of this inmorality and to persuade her to > stop having sex until she is older. Aside from the fact she could get > a venereal desease or worse, AIDS. As parents we feel very angry and > this makes it very difficult to talk to her in a civilized manner.  I > am looking for clues on how to deal with this.

This has got to be a troll. But if not, someone more thoughtful than I will have to follow up… — Mark Atwood   | Well done is better than well said. http://www.pobox.com/~mra

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > We found out that our daughter is sexually active with her boyfriend. > > She is 17 and as a parent we think this is inmoral.  We want to > > somehow communicate to her of this inmorality and to persuade her to > > stop having sex until she is older. Aside from the fact she could get > > a venereal desease or worse, AIDS. As parents we feel very angry and > > this makes it very difficult to talk to her in a civilized manner.  I > > am looking for clues on how to deal with this. > This has got to be a troll. >Why do you think it is? >Hans Kamp.

Because that attitude is a social throwback, everyone will open up on them and trash them totally for being fundy bigots. Steve

Response:

> As parents we feel very angry and > this makes it very difficult to talk to her in a civilized manner

 ……. Clue # 1: IMHO it would be a Very Good Idea to drop the idea of about talking to her about the ‘issue’  until you have dealt with your anger. Question: Where does this anger come from? Are you angry because she has not completely adopted your ‘language of good and evil’? Had you been under the impression that she shared your moral views? If so, why? Belief systems are not hereditary. I may be off the mark here, but I suspect that your daughter not sharing your moral views/ beliefs is more of an issue here than the one example of this that you have raised (i.e. her having sex at 17). No matter, it seems that you need to talk with her regardless. I mean talk in the sense of ‘engaging in dialogue’, not ‘imposing you opinion’ or ‘talking at’. It may well be a painful experience for both you and her, but not as painful as becoming estranged. Personal anecdote in illustration: My grandfather is a ‘fundamentalist’ Baptist minister. My Mother is an inquisitive kinda lady and did not ‘inherit’ her parents’ belief system. Her parents were less than pleased about this and as a result parents and daughter became estranged… for many years. My mother grieves about having been unable to share so much that happened in her life with her parents, and about not having been able to turn to them during times of terrible hardship and anguish. I am sure that this grieves them also. My mother is now in her 50’s, and it is only in recent years that ‘dialogue’ between her and her parents has been possible. Please, ‘Talk’ to your daughter. But I would suggest that you avoid speaking until you’re ready to Talk. — By the way, my words are not intended as any form of general slur against Baptists or Christianity in general. JC came out with some cool shite. mysteryshopper at optusnet dot com dot au

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->  <<<       A couple of reasons.  One is the vague "morality" of the writer, > never actually specified.  Another is the choice of newsgroup; I would > expect someone with such concerns to take them to the newsgroup where > members of their morality-source of choice would be most capable of > advising them.  Asking a sex-positive newsgroup to help "someone stop > having sex" is about as useful as asking alt.save-the-earth for the best > way to dump toxic waste.>>>> > **could it be that she didn’t realize that this was a sex positive > newsgroup???  I am just speaking from my experience, but when I saw the > title of the group — "support parents" — I looked at as a place to go to > talk with other parents on any and all issues….I would not have assumed > that this is a "sex positive" newsgroup….and, even saying that — all > posts towards sex on the newsgroup haven’t been positive…  JMHO…Barb

I think you may have missed that this thread is cross posted to a second newsgroup:  soc.sexuality.general.  I believe that that is the one alluded to, not alt.parenting.solutions. -Aula

Response:

>  <<<       A couple of reasons.  One is the vague "morality" of the writer, > never actually specified.  Another is the choice of newsgroup; I would > expect someone with such concerns to take them to the newsgroup where > members of their morality-source of choice would be most capable of > advising them.  Asking a sex-positive newsgroup to help "someone stop > having sex" is about as useful as asking alt.save-the-earth for the best > way to dump toxic waste.>>>> > **could it be that she didn’t realize that this was a sex positive > newsgroup???  I am just speaking from my experience, but when I saw the > title of the group — "support parents" — I looked at as a place to go to > talk with other parents on any and all issues….I would not have assumed > that this is a "sex positive" newsgroup….and, even saying that — all > posts towards sex on the newsgroup haven’t been positive…  JMHO…Barb

We have a crossposting issue here.  The original post was to *two* newsgroups simultaneously, soc.sexuality.general and alt.parenting.solutions The fact that it’s a crosspost increases the "it’s probably a troll" suspicion. Not that trolls are, in themselves, bad things.  This thread hasnt exploded into a flamefest, and useful stuff is being said, and good points are being made. — Mark Atwood   | Well done is better than well said. http://www.pobox.com/~mra

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->  <<<       A couple of reasons.  One is the vague "morality" of the writer, > never actually specified.  Another is the choice of newsgroup; I would > expect someone with such concerns to take them to the newsgroup where > members of their morality-source of choice would be most capable of > advising them.  Asking a sex-positive newsgroup to help "someone stop > having sex" is about as useful as asking alt.save-the-earth for the best > way to dump toxic waste.>>>> > **could it be that she didn’t realize that this was a sex positive > newsgroup???  I am just speaking from my experience, but when I saw the > title of the group — "support parents" — I looked at as a place to go to > talk with other parents on any and all issues….I would not have assumed > that this is a "sex positive" newsgroup….and, even saying that — all > posts towards sex on the newsgroup haven’t been positive…

JMHO…Barb The person you’re replying to is actually posting from soc.sexuality.general (as am I). I don’t think many of them realized that the thread was crossposted. –Joel Version: 3.12 GCS/O d- s++:- a– C++++>$ P+ L E? N+++ K- w++ M– PS Y+ PGP- t(+) 5(++) R++ tv(–) b+++ DI+++ D+ G>++++ e*>*++ h-(+) !r y(**)>+(+++)

Response:

 <<<       A couple of reasons.  One is the vague "morality" of the writer, never actually specified.  Another is the choice of newsgroup; I would expect someone with such concerns to take them to the newsgroup where members of their morality-source of choice would be most capable of advising them.  Asking a sex-positive newsgroup to help "someone stop having sex" is about as useful as asking alt.save-the-earth for the best way to dump toxic waste.>>>> **could it be that she didn’t realize that this was a sex positive newsgroup???  I am just speaking from my experience, but when I saw the title of the group — "support parents" — I looked at as a place to go to talk with other parents on any and all issues….I would not have assumed that this is a "sex positive" newsgroup….and, even saying that — all posts towards sex on the newsgroup haven’t been positive…  JMHO…Barb — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Well, on the bright side, this might be a time to try to reach out in acceptance and build some bridges of communication, if that is still possible. The most important thing now is for her to feel your love and acceptance, because she will have hard times in the future and will need help and encouragement. It would good if you could still be part of that help. When she suspects that a boyfriend is becoming abusive (just one possible  example) she will need support in sorting through the confusion of her feelings of loyalty, rejection, etc. If, when that happens, she knows that you are open to her, that can be a great time of listening for you. But, if you judge her harshly now, it will be quite unlikely that she will allow you into her life when she needs help understanding her choices when times get hard. Pilgrim (father of two wonderful young women, age 24 and 21) Well, this could be a good time to reach out in acceptance and try to build She is only 17 and will have some years ahead of her where whe needs people to talk to as she encounters relationship difficulties. How good it could be if she is able to talk with you then. It is hard for a young person to know when a relationship is good or when it has become abusive, how good it will be if she can talk to you when she faces those challenges.  If she can feel comfortable talking with you when she you, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >We found out that our daughter is sexually active with her boyfriend. >She is 17 and as a parent we think this is inmoral.  We want to >somehow communicate to her of this inmorality and to persuade her to >stop having sex until she is older. Aside from the fact she could get >a venereal desease or worse, AIDS. As parents we feel very angry and >this makes it very difficult to talk to her in a civilized manner.  I >am looking for clues on how to deal with this. >Thank you.

Response:

: We found out that our daughter is sexually active with her boyfriend. : She is 17 and as a parent we think this is inmoral.  We want to : somehow communicate to her of this inmorality and to persuade her to : stop having sex until she is older. Aside from the fact she could get : a venereal desease or worse, AIDS. As parents we feel very angry and : this makes it very difficult to talk to her in a civilized manner.  I : am looking for clues on how to deal with this. : I think you should be thankful that she lost her virginity to a (presumably) stable boyfriend, and not at a rave with a stranger. The way I see it, you’re being extremely judgemental (in the back of my mind I am thinking troll troll troll as noone would be that stupid…..really?)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> > We found out that our daughter is sexually active with her boyfriend. >> > She is 17 and as a parent we think this is inmoral.   >> This has got to be a troll. >Why do you think it is? >        A couple of reasons.  One is the vague "morality" of the writer, >never actually specified.  Another is the choice of newsgroup; I would >expect someone with such concerns to take them to the newsgroup where >members of their morality-source of choice would be most capable of >advising them.  Asking a sex-positive newsgroup to help "someone stop >having sex" is about as useful as asking alt.save-the-earth for the best >way to dump toxic waste. >                Elf

Well put. Parents would turn to parents about a question like this.  The choice of newsgroups is something of a giveaway. It’s a troll. Banty

Response:

In the majority of the non-industrialised world, girls become brides as soon as they become sexually mature – around the age of 13. Your daughter has been sexually mature for 4 years, and the legal age of consent is 16. By seeking to curb her sexual freedom you are infringing her human rights. Seek therapy to enable yourself to deal with this problem. If you love her, ask yourself whether you think it fair that she should pay for your psychological hang-ups with her happiness. The stastical average age for loss of virginity in the US is 16. Can you explain why you perceive it as evil/immoral/undesirable. If my daughter were 17, I would be more concerned if she DIDN’T have an active sex life.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> We found out that our daughter is sexually active with her boyfriend. > She is 17 and as a parent we think this is inmoral.  We want to > somehow communicate to her of this inmorality and to persuade her to > stop having sex until she is older. Aside from the fact she could get > a venereal desease or worse, AIDS. As parents we feel very angry and > this makes it very difficult to talk to her in a civilized manner.  I > am looking for clues on how to deal with this. > Thank you.

Response:

*wiping stinky troll shit off my shoe* What exactly is ‘inmoral’? Sounds like you’re jealous.  The ‘clue’ in how to deal with it is to do it yourself!!!!  Then you’ll remember it’s fun, then you’ll remember that you were doing it too at that age.  Then you’ll get over yourself. Sedona

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> We found out that our daughter is sexually active with her boyfriend. > She is 17 and as a parent we think this is inmoral.  We want to > somehow communicate to her of this inmorality and to persuade her to > stop having sex until she is older. Aside from the fact she could get > a venereal desease or worse, AIDS. As parents we feel very angry and > this makes it very difficult to talk to her in a civilized manner.  I > am looking for clues on how to deal with this. > Thank you.

Response:

>> > We found out that our daughter is sexually active with her boyfriend. > > She is 17 and as a parent we think this is inmoral.   > This has got to be a troll. >Why do you think it is?

        A couple of reasons.  One is the vague "morality" of the writer, never actually specified.  Another is the choice of newsgroup; I would expect someone with such concerns to take them to the newsgroup where members of their morality-source of choice would be most capable of advising them.  Asking a sex-positive newsgroup to help "someone stop having sex" is about as useful as asking alt.save-the-earth for the best way to dump toxic waste.                 Elf — Elf M. Sternberg, Immanentizing the Eschaton since 1988 http://www.drizzle.com/~elf/       (under construction) I have seen the light.  I was not impressed.

Response:

> > We found out that our daughter is sexually active with her boyfriend. > She is 17 and as a parent we think this is inmoral.  We want to > somehow communicate to her of this inmorality and to persuade her to > stop having sex until she is older. Aside from the fact she could get > a venereal desease or worse, AIDS. As parents we feel very angry and > this makes it very difficult to talk to her in a civilized manner.  I > am looking for clues on how to deal with this. > This has got to be a troll.

Why do you think it is? Hans Kamp.

Response:

> We found out that our daughter is sexually active with her boyfriend. > She is 17 and as a parent we think this is inmoral.  We want to > somehow communicate to her of this inmorality and to persuade her to > stop having sex until she is older. Aside from the fact she could get > a venereal desease or worse, AIDS. As parents we feel very angry and > this makes it very difficult to talk to her in a civilized manner.  I > am looking for clues on how to deal with this. > Thank you.

I think your best bet is to listen to the other parents that have responded.  I am certainly not a parent, that’s my disclaimer. However, I think it is extremely important for young women to discover their sexual identity and I think the age of 17 is not unusual. Biologically, she is ready to be sexually active and I think that if one is ready mentally, holding back on that can be damaging.  I don’t know what your values are, but repressing this natural and beautiful act to me is not healthy.  Also, it’s great that she seems to have a partner with whom to share and discover. The most important thing is that she understand the consequences of being sexually active and the responsibilities.  Absolutely she needs to be educated about STDs, pregnancy, and the preventions.  She should be respectfully treated as an adult, and I think you’ll find she will appreciate that.  Reiterating what others here have said, if you are uncomfortable with discussing the topic without judgement, have her visit a gynecologist with whome she can form trust. Good luck and please realize that everyone is unique.  She is your daughter, but she is also an individual.  Exploration is a part of life and is a good thing, if done responsibly. scoop

Response:

>We found out that our daughter is sexually active with her boyfriend. >She is 17 and as a parent we think this is inmoral.  We want to >somehow communicate to her of this inmorality and to persuade her to >stop having sex until she is older.

        You’re far too late.  Seriously.  If you haven’t managed to teach her _by now_ your morals, or why your morals are superior to those of the society around her, you haven’t got a chance.  At 17 she’s an adult, no longer an easily malleable pre-adolescent and no longer unburdened with many and different experiences of the world.  Yours will simply be one of them; if you have a good relationship with her, your talking to her and making your feelings clear to her might have additional gravitas but I wouldn’t bet on it.         I’d like to know why you didn’t start teaching her your morals when you had the chance: when she was 2 and from then on up.           Get over being angry.  She may be your daughter, but you are adults dealing with someone who may not yet be fully adult, but it’s been years since she was a child.           If you love her, your best bet is to leave her alone.  We all made mistakes when we were young, and most of us lived through them. Sometimes the consquences are heavy, and sometimes not.  If you have not, by teaching and by example, managed to convince her already that abstention is the course she should wisest choose, you are left now only to love her and respect her choices.                 Elf — Elf M. Sternberg, Immanentizing the Eschaton since 1988 http://www.drizzle.com/~elf/       (under construction) I have seen the light.  I was not impressed.

Response:

> We found out that our daughter is sexually active with her boyfriend. > She is 17 and as a parent we think this is inmoral.  We want to > somehow communicate to her of this inmorality and to persuade her to > stop having sex until she is older. Aside from the fact she could get > a venereal desease or worse, AIDS. As parents we feel very angry and > this makes it very difficult to talk to her in a civilized manner.  I > am looking for clues on how to deal with this. > Thank you.

Well, she’s practically and adult and at this age, they think they know everything anyway. They don’t (but she won’t realize this for about 10 years), they’re just lacking in experience and she seems to be seeking it out on her own. Think back, maybe this is how you gained experience too. As the others have said, the only thing you can do is remind her about taking precautions, against pregnancy and STDs. sue (who’s raised a couple boys to 19 and 22, and knows that sometimes all you can do is mention precautions. anything else, they won’t listen to anyway.)

Response:

It is immoral in your mind not in reality. Nature provided her with the sexual response of an adult once she passed puberty. It is not up to you to decide what is moral or immoral for another person once they are grown and 17 is very close to that. On the other hand, you owe her nothing unless you want to get involved if she gets pregnant or contracts a STD. Anyway, lighten up. Most of us had some sort of sexual contact at or before 17. By the way, how old were you when you had your first experience, huh? Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > We found out that our daughter is sexually active with her boyfriend. > She is 17 and as a parent we think this is inmoral.  We want to > somehow communicate to her of this inmorality and to persuade her to > stop having sex until she is older. Aside from the fact she could get > a venereal desease or worse, AIDS. As parents we feel very angry and > this makes it very difficult to talk to her in a civilized manner.  I > am looking for clues on how to deal with this. > Thank you.

Response:

> We found out that our daughter is sexually active with her boyfriend. > She is 17 and as a parent we think this is inmoral.  We want to > somehow communicate to her of this inmorality and to persuade her to > stop having sex until she is older. Aside from the fact she could get > a venereal desease or worse, AIDS. As parents we feel very angry and > this makes it very difficult to talk to her in a civilized manner.  I > am looking for clues on how to deal with this. > Thank you.

Assuming you could, how would you explain to her that it is immoral to have sex now, but not immoral later, such as when she is married? Do you really think that she would all of a sudden feel completely good about sex after she married if you taught her that it was immoral before marriage?  Wouldn’t this be sort of a way that you would be giving her future husband "damaged goods" so to speak? After all, he is going to be expecting a bride that is fully ready to accept his sexual advances and become a willing and active participant in sexual relations with him. Is it right to administer negative sexual conditioning to a daughter such that when she gets married it leads to sexual dysfunction for her in her sexual relationship with her husband? rg

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