Pure Parents

Question:

If you’re not familiar with Shelly Duvall’s Bedtime Stories, they are a great series of live-action fairy tales, some popular and some obscure. I used to watch them on HBO; now they are on sale on VHS. I found them in the Universal Studio’s Movie Store: http://www.universal-studios.net/store.html It is quite an extensive collection and they are great to watch over and over. Some really big stars appear in them. I just love the stories and they are good for young and old alike. Watch them together.

Response:

I think it is the tone of the list that is at least as objectionable as the underlying content (exluding #4 which I find objectionalbe in content). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > To those who "found most of the list extreme": > I’ve been criticized before for siding with strict parenting, so I > will start with the fact that most of this list (extracted below) is > actually REQUIRED GOOD PARENTING for some ages of kids, and some > situations.  In many places, failure to enact at least some of these > restrictions is cause for DSS/CPS to begin investigating you for > neglect. > Kids have to LEARN to be socially well adjusted according to some > common society rules, and they have to EARN trust and freedom.  We all > want them to make it without ever having to be corrected, hurting > themselves or others.  Many will not take the straight and narrow road > (most honest parents will admit they didn’t either .

Kids do have to learn, but there are many ways to learn. Strict authoratarianism is not the only way to instill values and high expectations. I prefer a more cooperative, reasoned approach to child teaching, rather than a "do it because I’m the parent and you’re the child" approach. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->1) Meet all of your kids friends and their parents… >2) Check, check and recheck on your kids… >3) don’t let your kid go to someones house when a parent isn’t home, no >exceptions… >4) You have the right to read any piece of paper in your house,… >5) Listen to your kids music, watch movies with them or pre-view them… >6) Make your home kid central…

Response:

To those who "found most of the list extreme": I’ve been criticized before for siding with strict parenting, so I will start with the fact that most of this list (extracted below) is actually REQUIRED GOOD PARENTING for some ages of kids, and some situations.  In many places, failure to enact at least some of these restrictions is cause for DSS/CPS to begin investigating you for neglect. Kids have to LEARN to be socially well adjusted according to some common society rules, and they have to EARN trust and freedom.  We all want them to make it without ever having to be corrected, hurting themselves or others.  Many will not take the straight and narrow road (most honest parents will admit they didn’t either . Many years ago I read a science fiction story (absurd premise at that time) in which the society outlawed E. A. Poe, and all other "literature" with violent and deviant behavior, they even took the "bad" parts out of their religious scriptures.  Recently I watched the movie Pleasantville, and discovered that some others who saw it thought that the black & white was really the "traditional" society. It seems unfortunate that that science fiction author could (is??) successfully writing "how to raise you child" books today.  Part of my problem is that I am old enough to remember teachers who could enforce discipline, shop keepers who could tell anyone to leave the store (or the sidewalk outside it), and when all the parents in the neighborhood would watch each other’s kids and report problems.  Going to a friend’s house did not mean lack of supervision. It sounds like the Idaho program is run by over-the-hill conservatives (not Republicans, people who would like to avoid changes they don’t think are good).  Look at the regional combined statistics for violent crime, SAT scores, and per-student costs before rejecting the list in the original post. Please read the list again skipping #4 and you will see that most of the ideas are regularly posted on this newsgroup.  For instance #3 is more commonly stated as "don’t leave your kids unsupervised". == Father of 4 p.s. If you have done the above review, now look at #4 and think about a kid that IS showing other signs of problems (skipping school, drugs, crime, or sex).  You should ask, but don’t be surprised if lying is among the symptoms. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->1) Meet all of your kids friends and their parents… >2) Check, check and recheck on your kids… >3) don’t let your kid go to someones house when a parent isn’t home, no >exceptions… >4) You have the right to read any piece of paper in your house,… >5) Listen to your kids music, watch movies with them or pre-view them… >6) Make your home kid central…

Response:

Liz, We thought those things were second nature.  We did all that with my step-daughter.  Her friends parents regularly criticized us to her about it.  It got to the point that she was really limited where she could go because the parents wouldn’t respect our wishes.  All her friends were welcome here. It’s sad, but it truly is a small minority of parents that care so much. We will do the same for our son as he grows up. Carol

Response:

I think this is very good but perhaps a little too strict – kids need to grow up thats all part of being a teenager – the only way you can grow up is if you do things you shouldnt – kids need to experiment (im not condoning anything btw) and will – if you bring them up in such a strict environment you are only delaying the rebel period and it may turn out worse – I do agree with the prinicpals of your post but I had strict parents and I rebelled at the age of 17/18 when it was important that I didnt (university etc)  I think ive tried everything going but if my parents had been a little more open with me when I was younger perhaps I wouldnt have! Susan

My husband and I have been talking about this at length since before I had our first daughter (Hailey age 3.7 yrs). My parents were very strict and "hands on," his father died when he was 11 and he admits his mom just "let him grow up, on his own." Anyway, here in Idaho we have had a program called Enough is Enough for the last three years. It’s an anti drug program and a man named Milton Crea comes and host huge anti-drug lectures and one about being a better informed & involved parent. These are some of the things he advocates (and a funny thing is my parents did all of these things plus some more): 1) Meet all of your kids friends and their parents. Do not let your child go to someones house unless you have personally met them face to face and checked out their house (so you can see if they are drinking at 3pm or if you can smell pot etc.) 2) Check, check and recheck on your kids. Call the school and check on attendance, don’t wait for them to call you. If your kids says they will be at Joe’s house, go over there and check. You don’t have to do this everytime, but it lets your kid know you can and will do this. 3) don’t let your kid go to someones house when a parent isn’t home, no exceptions. This is when they can drink, do drugs and have sex without worry of being caught. 4) You have the right to read any piece of paper in your house, this includes diaries, notes and mail. Only comment on what you read if there is something big to worry about (drug, sex, illegal activity). He’s not saying to read everything, but if you suspect something is going on you need to know about, by all means use anything you can. 5) Listen to your kids music, watch movies with them or pre-view them (my parents did this and they demanded a movie stub to prove we had been there. They would sometimes come to the theater to check on us if we went to a double feature.) 6) Make your home kid central. Put up a hoop for basket ball, have video games, encourage them to "hang out" by making your home interesting and fun (this sounds like my house growing up.) Anyway, you get the idea. I would like to hear what you all think of this. Personally I found it sad that people needed to be told these things. When he was lecturing my dh was like "my mom never did that" and I was saying "mine did." No wonder he got into alot more trouble than I ever did. Liz

Response:

I am not going to agree with all that was said nor will I disagree. In my house growing up we were required to give our parents a list of friends phone numbers. We never had a problem with this until one of my brothers started drinking under age and going to parties instead of a friends house like he said. Only then did my parents use the numbers and only then did my brother have a problem with giving my parents the numbers. We had as much privacy as you could sharing a room with your siblings but if my parents suspected something was up like my brother drinking they would do what they called "spring cleaning" they would clean out our drawers, closets, flip mattresses Ect. I don’t think that any of us really new if they had seen things or read things because it never seemed like they really said anything about it. That is until recently when I think back we had what we called "table talk". Table talk was at the dinner table and we were free to speak our minds about anything even if we didn’t like things that our parents did. My parents would slowly bring things up to a sibling that had nothing to do with what the had found and we would all get involved in the conversation so they in essence got to make their point without coming out and letting us know they had trully invaded our privacy. I hope that I too can master this art with my kids because I never felt that my parents were over stepping their bounds as far as my privacy or safety went except of course when I started dating;-) Kerry-Lynn

Response:

I don’t think this list is a badge for snooping.  I think what mygirlsmom means is that if you suspect something, not just a random search.  If your adolescent came home glossy eyed and smelling like marijuana, and you asked if he/she had been doing drugs and he/she said no.  Then the next night, they came home smelling like alcohol, and you asked if they’d been drinking and they said no.  This wouldn’t make you suspicious enough to look in their room for some evidence of drugs or alcohol?  Leslie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > really? so, in essence, you’re saying that you’re adolescent may also go into > YOUR personal belongings as well, right? whats good for the goose is good for > the gander..I’m  all for keeping track of your kids but searching through their > personal journals or notes is horrible. >You have the right to read any piece of paper in your house, this >includes diaries, notes and mail. > Oh yeah..and while you’re house is "kid central" while they are out playing > hoops and hanging out you’re reading everything in their purse and > backpacks….doesn’t seem to me a very healthy way of developing trust between > a young person and an adult. > but then again, my kids aren’t teenagers yet. > Stephanie > video >games, encourage them to "hang out" by making your home interesting and >fun (this sounds like my house growing up.)

Response:

really? so, in essence, you’re saying that you’re adolescent may also go into YOUR personal belongings as well, right? whats good for the goose is good for the gander..I’m  all for keeping track of your kids but searching through their personal journals or notes is horrible. >You have the right to read any piece of paper in your house, this >includes diaries, notes and mail.

Oh yeah..and while you’re house is "kid central" while they are out playing hoops and hanging out you’re reading everything in their purse and backpacks….doesn’t seem to me a very healthy way of developing trust between a young person and an adult. but then again, my kids aren’t teenagers yet. Stephanie

video – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->games, encourage them to "hang out" by making your home interesting and >fun (this sounds like my house growing up.)

Response:

I think most of this list was bull..Occasionally I was allowed at a friends how without the parents home or they would be at my house with no parents and we didn’t do anything in the way of sex etc… As for checking up on the kids and stuff my mom did that and I didn’t have any friends because of it. Everyone knew how strict my mom was and she would always say no to whatever I wanted to do. Either that she had to check up on me and everyone thought I was a geek because of it..C.J. is only 21 months old and I will admit I am VERY overprotective which as we all have seen from the recent school shootings we need to be. But I will never hound him so bad that people don’t want to socialize with him…I honesly can’t say though how I am going to react or what kind of rules I am going to have until he is older. It is too early to tell. Amy mommy to C.J. (Christian James) born 7-1-97 by unnecessary c-section…

Response:

The list wasn’t meant to be bullying. I sure never felt bullied and most of those were things my parents did. As far as going to reading notes and diaries, my parents did this when they had cause to be worried. It wasn’t drugs, but it was sexual harrasment at school. When I protested my parents reading them my dad informed me that I could have privacy when I paid my own bills. Something that my parents did was start out very strict and loosen up as we got older. However both my sister and I knew that the freedom we had one could and would disappear in a heartbeat if we got out of line. Liz

Response:

I have to agree.  We must’ve had the same mom, because I had to show the movie stub thing too.  I hated the fact that I had to call my mom every hour to "check in" with her when I was at my friends house around the corner. But you know what?  I have never been arrested, never done drugs, etc. Parents need to keep close tabs on their kids, not only to "check up" on them, but for their own safety too.   Do you think those boys in Colorado could have built so many bombs if they suspected their parents could walk in the room anytime?  I don’t want to start another thread on Colarado, but I would’ve never *dreamed* of taking a gun to school!  IMO.   Leslie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > The list wasn’t meant to be bullying. I sure never felt bullied and most > of those were things my parents did. > As far as going to reading notes and diaries, my parents did this when > they had cause to be worried. It wasn’t drugs, but it was sexual > harrasment at school. When I protested my parents reading them my dad > informed me that I could have privacy when I paid my own bills. > Something that my parents did was start out very strict and loosen up as > we got older. However both my sister and I knew that the freedom we had > one could and would disappear in a heartbeat if we got out of line. > Liz

Response:

I found most of the list extreme.  Teach your kids good values, let them know what the rules are, practice what you preach, and trust them to make the right decisions about their behavior.  I was a latch-key kid who had little parental supervision.  Still, I saw both my parents everyday, and I knew they loved me.  I didn’t get in any major trouble.  Checking up on your kids in the manner this list suggests doesn’t make better kids.  It makes kids who learn to become better liars and sneaks.  It makes kids who are resentful of their parents’ butting in.  It makes kids not trust their parents.  It makes kids go to someone else when they have major problems instead of their parents.  It makes them feel unloved and undervalued. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My husband and I have been talking about this at length since before I > had our first daughter (Hailey age 3.7 yrs). My parents were very strict > and "hands on," his father died when he was 11 and he admits his mom > just "let him grow up, on his own." > Anyway, here in Idaho we have had a program called Enough is Enough for > the last three years. It’s an anti drug program and a man named Milton > Crea comes and host huge anti-drug lectures and one about being a better > informed & involved parent. > These are some of the things he advocates (and a funny thing is my > parents did all of these things plus some more): > 1) Meet all of your kids friends and their parents. Do not let your > child go to someones house unless you have personally met them face to > face and checked out their house (so you can see if they are drinking at > 3pm or if you can smell pot etc.) > 2) Check, check and recheck on your kids. Call the school and check on > attendance, don’t wait for them to call you. If your kids says they will > be at Joe’s house, go over there and check. You don’t have to do this > everytime, but it lets your kid know you can and will do this. > 3) don’t let your kid go to someones house when a parent isn’t home, no > exceptions. This is when they can drink, do drugs and have sex without > worry of being caught. > 4) You have the right to read any piece of paper in your house, this > includes diaries, notes and mail. Only comment on what you read if there > is something big to worry about (drug, sex, illegal activity). He’s not > saying to read everything, but if you suspect something is going on you > need to know about, by all means use anything you can. > 5) Listen to your kids music, watch movies with them or pre-view them > (my parents did this and they demanded a movie stub to prove we had been > there. They would sometimes come to the theater to check on us if we > went to a double feature.) > 6) Make your home kid central. Put up a hoop for basket ball, have video > games, encourage them to "hang out" by making your home interesting and > fun (this sounds like my house growing up.) > Anyway, you get the idea. I would like to hear what you all think of > this. Personally I found it sad that people needed to be told these > things. When he was lecturing my dh was like "my mom never did that" and > I was saying "mine did." No wonder he got into alot more trouble than I > ever did. > Liz

Response:

My girls mom, you know, I agree with you most of the time. I’m sorry, but this time I have to go with Andrea’s opinion. Especially about it making kids better liars and sneaks. Back in my school days (’70’s) I would have to be home by an agreed time and go with friends my parents knew. I understood why they had this rule and mostly respected it. But there was a few times when I went beyond the edge. I lied and snuck around it. I guess the bottom line is if you really need all of these rules, you’re doing something wrong. Lance – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >  It > makes kids who learn to become better liars and sneaks.  It makes kids who > are resentful of their parents’ butting in.  It makes kids not trust their > parents.  It makes kids go to someone else when they have major problems > instead of their parents.  It makes them feel unloved and undervalued. > My husband and I have been talking about this at length since before I > had our first daughter (Hailey age 3.7 yrs). My parents were very strict > and "hands on," his father died when he was 11 and he admits his mom > just "let him grow up, on his own."

Response:

I think this is a good way to creat a lying, sneaky kid. I especially despise the idea of reading kids diaries, lettes, etc. I feel that all humans have an inate right to have a private space and private thoughts. I would read my child’s diaries only under extreme circumatances if I thought they were a danger to themselves (suicide, drugs, alcohol, sex) or others. Sure you have to check up on your kids, but not in the bullying manner of this list, especially when they get to be teens. Set high expectations, then remove privleges if they aren’t met. Don’t assume the worst of your kid, which is what this list seems to suggest.

Response:

My husband and I have been talking about this at length since before I had our first daughter (Hailey age 3.7 yrs). My parents were very strict and "hands on," his father died when he was 11 and he admits his mom just "let him grow up, on his own." Anyway, here in Idaho we have had a program called Enough is Enough for the last three years. It’s an anti drug program and a man named Milton Crea comes and host huge anti-drug lectures and one about being a better informed & involved parent. These are some of the things he advocates (and a funny thing is my parents did all of these things plus some more): 1) Meet all of your kids friends and their parents. Do not let your child go to someones house unless you have personally met them face to face and checked out their house (so you can see if they are drinking at 3pm or if you can smell pot etc.) 2) Check, check and recheck on your kids. Call the school and check on attendance, don’t wait for them to call you. If your kids says they will be at Joe’s house, go over there and check. You don’t have to do this everytime, but it lets your kid know you can and will do this. 3) don’t let your kid go to someones house when a parent isn’t home, no exceptions. This is when they can drink, do drugs and have sex without worry of being caught. 4) You have the right to read any piece of paper in your house, this includes diaries, notes and mail. Only comment on what you read if there is something big to worry about (drug, sex, illegal activity). He’s not saying to read everything, but if you suspect something is going on you need to know about, by all means use anything you can. 5) Listen to your kids music, watch movies with them or pre-view them (my parents did this and they demanded a movie stub to prove we had been there. They would sometimes come to the theater to check on us if we went to a double feature.) 6) Make your home kid central. Put up a hoop for basket ball, have video games, encourage them to "hang out" by making your home interesting and fun (this sounds like my house growing up.) Anyway, you get the idea. I would like to hear what you all think of this. Personally I found it sad that people needed to be told these things. When he was lecturing my dh was like "my mom never did that" and I was saying "mine did." No wonder he got into alot more trouble than I ever did. Liz

Response: