Question:
>>If you feel compelled to flame me again, that’s your business. I for one have >no intentions in responding to further insults. I don’t have time for it. >Claire King
Vic, <snip> >I’ve been in far too many similar threads in past Pendulum dialogue >and got flamed for my own comments about taking a step back from the >disease when one is relatively stable and just MAYBE trying to do >something for themselves beyond the ongoing dice game with meds. ><snip>
I agree. I learned the hard way not to be bipolar, but to accept it as one component of being me. I have used support groups for years; in fact, facilitated one for 9. Also, I was program director for an all consumer (client) run drop-in center. We dealt strictly with individuals having mental illness. After 3 yrs.I was so sick – didn’t know up from down and worse, still, was completely unaware of it until I landed in hospital. Now I occasionally attend support groups, but, unlike yourself, I am in the role of going when in need of support. Of course I contribute what I can; but I feel after all those years of giving to people and burning out, it’s time to look after my sanity. One more thing I have learned is I must have a good balance of friends/associates. Instead of only hanging with individuals with mental illness, I seek out people without diagnosis. I’ve found this to be a much healthier lifestyle. >My comments then and I suppose now still say that I am what I was, and >for whatever reason, I was able to accomplish a hell of a lot using >various TM, self-programming, positive affirmations and basic exposure >to self-help and assertive positive attitude and surrounding oneself >with others of like attitude.
Amen. I am trying to be positive but when old man depression comes it’s a darn hard thing to do. <snip> >When you think about what O’Leery did and how much acid and flashbacks >did on a biochem level, we aren’t far off from monkeying with the same >stuff with not a hell of a lot more knowledge and certainty than >O’Leery himself had.
I must admit that O’Leary is not someone I admire nor do I look to him for inspiration. My opinion only. <snip> >I’ve heard sooooo many say how they just aren’t the same on >anti-depressants or mood stabilisers. Can’t quite put a finger on it >but they all seem to come to the conclusion that it just "takes the >edge off" which can include the competitive edge, the creative edge, >the motivational edge.
Well, I know I’m not the same. God knows I never want to go back,either. My life was completely out of control and I thought I was a super wimp. My reason was that I thought everyone had the mood swings I experienced and were able to handle them; that the mood swings were just a normal part of life. DUH! >It’s far too easy to fall into the pit of complacency and throw up the >arms in surrender to neurological and genetic factors that exist
Well, I guess this true of me, well maybe not complancy, but I do accept bipolar as a neurological disease and since my maternal grandmother and my neice have it (I really know very little about my extended family) I am inclined to accept, in my case, that my bipolar pain in the ass is genetic. However, I do know people who have the illness with absolutely no family history of it. Oh, I almost forgot, I don’t think acceptance of my illness is the same as complacency. What do you think? Vic, I appreciate your response. Your writing is intelligent and articulate. Keep on keepin on. Claire
Response:
I’d love to contribute to this one, but the last time I got in on a conversation about the intelligence of Bipolar individuals, it got me in a lot of trouble, so forgive me for bowing out! Barrie 
) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->:Hi there! <s> >: >:> >:>>Anyway, manic depressives are not that stupid pal.<< >: >:>>> In fact, as a group of individuals, we have a PROVEN HIGHER IQ THAN THE >:> AVERAGE JOHN Q PUBLIC ON THE STREET. So buzz off.<<< >: >:I used to ask my doc: "Doc, am I so smart because I am really so smart, >:or do I just *think* I’m so smart because I’m bipolar?? He said, "Did >:you really graduate in the top .1% of your class, or do you just *think* >:you did?" I said, "Nope, got the paper on the wall, doc" He said, >:"Well, there you go!" <grin> >: >:Ah well!! <giggle> >: >:Regards, >: >:Farah
Response:
>Anyway, manic depressives are not that stupid pal. > In fact, as a group of individuals, we have a PROVEN HIGHER IQ THAN THE > AVERAGE JOHN Q PUBLIC ON THE STREET. So buzz off.
It’s sad ya gotta be so "in your face" about it. Fact or not, it’s hardly a satisfactory redemption. If someone acts unacceptably, speaks condescendingly then IQ factors are hardly the point. Artistic temperaments are no less tolerable whether the result of a disease or the component of one’s personality. The only one that kinda attitude and info will comfort is you. Speak for yourself if you think you’re doing anyone a favour by speaking out in defence of Bipolars as a group with the "holier than thou" language ! Vic aka "Mr Mom" – Divorced, broke, nintendo buff, computer nerd, Bipolar, heterosexual single parent, compulsive, impulsive, with SAD, ADD and a preoccupation with unlimited wealth, immortality and esoteric subject matter. Otherwise normal & happy as hell.:-)
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Anyway, manic depressives are not that stupid pal. > In fact, as a group of individuals, we have a PROVEN HIGHER IQ THAN THE > AVERAGE JOHN Q PUBLIC ON THE STREET. So buzz off. >It’s sad ya gotta be so "in your face" about it. Fact or not, it’s >hardly a satisfactory redemption. If someone acts unacceptably, speaks >condescendingly then IQ factors are hardly the point. Artistic >temperaments are no less tolerable whether the result of a disease or >the component of one’s personality. The only one that kinda attitude >and info will comfort is you. >Speak for yourself if you think you’re doing anyone a favour by >speaking out in defence of Bipolars as a group with the "holier than >thou" language ! >Vic aka "Mr Mom" – Divorced, broke, nintendo buff, computer nerd, >Bipolar, heterosexual single parent, compulsive, impulsive, with >SAD, ADD and a preoccupation with unlimited wealth, immortality >and esoteric subject matter. Otherwise normal & happy as hell.:-)
Vic, Vic, Vic, It’ been so long since the original the original message was poste resulting in this response that I don’t even remember what it was. I haven’t and won’t participate in flame wars, didn’t think that was what this NG was about. I do, however, take exception to people making insults about people like you and me who suffer from this disease. I would like to remind you that this is not a behavioural disoder. It is a very real brain disease who’s symptoms frequently look like behaviour. Granted, when we are stable we must live with the ramifications of the illness that have pissed people off. For one, I do accept the responsibilty of my actions and follow through with letters/phone calls to those who may have been affected by my illness. I have lost friends, more than I can remember and I pray I lose no more. However, I know I cannot control my actions when in mania. If I could I wouldn’t have this illness. If you feel compelled to flame me again, that’s your business. I for one have no intentions in responding to further insults. I don’t have time for it. Claire King
Response:
>If you feel compelled to flame me again, that’s your business. I for one have >no intentions in responding to further insults. I don’t have time for it. >Claire King
Hell no Claire! I saw one or two lines and in my own manic state them thar words made me see red is all. I’ve been in far too many similar threads in past Pendulum dialogue and got flamed for my own comments about taking a step back from the disease when one is relatively stable and just MAYBE trying to do something for themselves beyond the ongoing dice game with meds. I’ve been that route too and because of my past substance abuse background actually got a bit of a lift at experimenting with my chemistry as per prescription. My comments then and I suppose now still say that I am what I was, and for whatever reason, I was able to accomplish a hell of a lot using various TM, self-programming, positive affirmations and basic exposure to self-help and assertive positive attitude and surrounding oneself with others of like attitude. I found that after diagnosis, I kinda bit the dust on self help and effort and gave in TOTALLY to the psychopharmacological mystics and their rather uncertain but generally accepted practice of what I considered a random, arbitrary game of Russian Roulette with my neuro receptors and the chemical potential in the gap of all gaps in my one and only centre for cognitive processes. When you think about what O’Leery did and how much acid and flashbacks did on a biochem level, we aren’t far off from monkeying with the same stuff with not a hell of a lot more knowledge and certainty than O’Leery himself had. Yeah it doesn’t take us on hallucinogenic trips, but what it does do is far more subtle and perhaps even more destructive and pervasive to our will and cognitive projections we call personality. I’ve heard sooooo many say how they just aren’t the same on anti-depressants or mood stabilisers. Can’t quite put a finger on it but they all seem to come to the conclusion that it just "takes the edge off" which can include the competitive edge, the creative edge, the motivational edge. It’s far too easy to fall into the pit of complacency and throw up the arms in surrender to neurological and genetic factors that exist beyond our right of choice and will. Sorry Claire, I’m not into flame wars either, just chalk one up to impulsive response mechanism that kicks in after midnight on one of my daily hypomanic cycles. I hate anything that is painted black or white whether it be one who thinks all can be resolved by will, attitude or religion, OR those who defiantly reject the slightest hint of any personal responsibility for their state and quality of life. To both extremes, I have to say I feel sorry for the fanaticism and obsession, or just plain defence out of fear that causes such a myopic interpretation of our disorder. IQ being higher in Bipolars, Naaaaaw. Hell I go to bed every night saying a prayer to the pic above my bed "Albert E." in hopes he could somehow reach out of the dimension only he (and me ) could ever recognise and comprehend. (Not to self-aggrandising eeeehh? Wait till ya hear about the megalomania side and my plan to solve all the economic woes of this century). Hell Claire I agree that many of us BiPi’s are floating in and off the scale of rational intellect, but so what??? Hasn’t ever got me laid or made me more bucks. I don’t see any icons of my image on any altars, I don’t have any BiPi groupies or fans, my parents are just further convinced of my fringe sanity/insanity with every meaningful intellectual discussion. I suppose in all of this hypomanic rant Claire although I may have appeared to have struck a blow at you for your comment (which I reckon I did), I’m kinda like the IQ wife beater who immediately reaches over and say’s "I’ll never do it again Claire", and we all know that that only holds true until the next time I run outta Depakote. Gotta tell ya, though Claire your pretty darn laid back to come back with such a politically correct response. You aren’t Nurse Cratchet using the "Claire" alias are ya? Thanks for absorbing my "throw it at the wall and if it sticks it’s ready" recipe for cooking up dialogue. Your one notch better than I on the tolerance scale. "iki pasyrasimo" Victoras Lucius Gintaras Antanas Jasinskas. AKA Vic
Response:
I will not criticise anyone for seeking help wherever they can; however, it was unnecessary to post the entire FAQ to this newsgroup. Providing a short summary and the website is enough. Anyone interested could then go to the website. It appears that someone needs to look up a FAQ on support newsgroup etiquette. In addition to the above statements, I must tell you all that all "on-line" advice should be discussed with your physician (whoever is prescribing your meds, face-to-face counseling you or your diagnostician). In any kind of counseling, there are other considerations besides how well someone types their words and what syntax they use. Visualizing a patient/client as that pt/ct is speaking tells much more than words on a screen. Even those of us who are professionals in this newsgroup would never ask you to make changes in your treatment without first discussing those changes with your own personal treatment professional. As I believe that we must have a holistic view (mind, body, spirit), I cannot say that traditional medicine nor the psychiatric community have all the answers. I do believe that we have to be aware consumers who look beyond promises and who are willing to search for whatever works for ourselves as individuals. BP is a serious medical disorder with dire consequences if left untreated or if maltreated. Please be aware that psych medications can interact with so-called "natural" herbs. Some combinations can be lethal. Never fail to communicate with your doc. Those of you who know me and have communicated with me privately know that I have had one of the "worst case scenarios" at times. I also have seen the other side of the coin. Please do not misinterpret my words. I am simply recommending caution. My best wishes to you all, Delane
Response:
> The Psychic Guidance Online Network FAQ > (Frequently Asked Questions)
This is the only one of these things that I have responded to and the only reason I am not lodging a complaint is because I don’t know where to or how. I hope that someone here will. This is garbage. The reason I say that is not because I don’t believe in psychics or that any of us might actually need guidance in our lives, but for pete’s sake, this is ridiculous. In my opinion the only possible reason for sending this to a manic support group is to get a bunch money. Everyone on the NG knows that I am usually levelheaded and don’t flare up, but THIS MAKES ME MAD! whew. Sorry. Anyway, manic depressives are not that stupid pal. Thanks, though, thanks a lot. ms manic
Response:
Oh yeah, get a bunch of money because we are such ‘compulsive spenders.’ Don’t forget that we are STUPID compulsive spenders, folks. OH I am SO SO MAD!!!!! Sorry, I just needed to vent. HUFF, PUFF, ms manic
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The Psychic Guidance Online Network FAQ > (Frequently Asked Questions) >This is the only one of these things that I have responded to and the >only reason I am not lodging a complaint is because I don’t know where to >or how. I hope that someone here will. This is garbage. The reason I >say that is not because I don’t believe in psychics or that any of us >might actually need guidance in our lives, but for pete’s sake, this is >ridiculous. In my opinion the only possible reason for sending this to >a manic support group is to get a bunch money. Everyone on the NG knows >that I am usually levelheaded and don’t flare up, but THIS MAKES ME MAD! > whew. Sorry. Anyway, manic depressives are not that stupid pal. >Thanks, though, thanks a lot. >ms manic
Yeah, Pal, In fact, as a group of individuals, we have a PROVEN HIGHER IQ THAN THE AVERAGE JOHN Q PUBLIC ON THE STREET. So buzz off. Miss Manic…thanks for the incentive! The Wild Woman (Claire)
Response:
Hi there! <s> >Anyway, manic depressives are not that stupid pal.<< >> In fact, as a group of individuals, we have a PROVEN HIGHER IQ THAN THE > AVERAGE JOHN Q PUBLIC ON THE STREET. So buzz off.<<<
I used to ask my doc: "Doc, am I so smart because I am really so smart, or do I just *think* I’m so smart because I’m bipolar?? He said, "Did you really graduate in the top .1% of your class, or do you just *think* you did?" I said, "Nope, got the paper on the wall, doc" He said, "Well, there you go!" <grin> Ah well!! <giggle> Regards, Farah
Response:
The Psychic Guidance Online Network FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Supersedes: <nothing to date> Organization: The Psychic Guidance Online Network Lines: Many Distribution: World Summary: Frequently asked questions (with answers) about the Psychic Guidance Online Network and related topics. This FAQ should be read by everyone whois contemplating using the services of the Psychic Guidance Online Network. Copyright: Copyright (c) Nicole Miller 1996. Contents: What is the Psychic Guidance Online Network? How did the Psychic Guidance Online Network begin? How does the Psychic Guidance Online Network operate? What does the Psychic Guidance Online Network accomplish? How can one place solve all of these different problems? What services are available through the Psychic Guidance Online Network? How much does this cost? Can those under the age of 18 use the Psychic Guidance Online Network? Is the Psychic Guidance Online Network similar to those other 1-900 phone psychics? What are your qualifications? How many people work in the Psychic Guidance Online Network? Do professionals use the Psychic Guidance Online Network? What code of ethics does the Psychic Guidance Online Network follow? What if I’ve been doing fine without psychic guidance? Why should I use this? How can I tell if I need psychic guidance? Do I have to believe in psychic phenomena to use these services? What is the Psychic Guidance Online Network? The Psychic Guidance Online Network is an online group of individuals utilizing the spiritual powers of META-psychics in combination with psychological and physiological sciences to provide meaningful solutions to life questions and problems. Offering various services through the Internet, our mission is to enable people to accept spiritualism and personal empowerment through scientific knowledge when unable to do so through the current religions available today. Using the "sixth sense," applied science, and future developments enables this network to perceive, investigate, and understand matters beyond our everyday lives in order to help others evolve toward becoming a co-worker with the Higher Consciousness in the world’s work. How did the Psychic Guidance Online Network begin? The Psychic Guidance Online Network began in August of 1996 founded by Nicole Miller, a life-long student of META-physics and Psychology. The concept of such a network performing online was inspired by the wealth of requests for information and an immediate service providing immediate answers to many bewildering questions about life. At one time, this service was available to computer users in the St. Louis MO area via The Psychic Guidance Online Network BBS, however, it was noted that literally thousands wished to use the service from outside cities and states. Therefore in an effort to reach all who may be concerned, the network was placed upon the World Wide Web with everything available as it once was locally. How does the Psychic Guidance Online Network operate? Via The Psychic Guidance Online Network, you can eliminate obstacles and problems, and develop into a wholly spiritual being right here on earth through the PGON (The Psychic Guidance Online Network) website: http://pages.prodigy.com/nldn84a. Upon completing one of the service questionnaires, your information (database information and question) is compiled into e-mail, where your request is received, processed, and returned within 24 hours to your Internet address (4-6 weeks postal delivery). Fee payments may be conducted through the web site as well by calling one of the listed 1-900 numbers. The corresponding cost of the service you seek is charged to your phone bill as "Web Access," and accepted as payment. This process will initiate the network’s counseling services and assign a personal and private Psychic Guidance Online Counselor to you, whom you will consult on a regular basis for immediate help with your problems. What does the Psychic Guidance Online Network accomplish? The Psychic Guidance Online Network delivers the methods and tools through which you can eliminate the problems and situations you encounter in life, such as: illness injury learning and behavior problems addictions and substance abuse family, parenting, and marital problems suicide stress low-self esteem aging job and career concerns lost identity spiritual emptiness and other inner/other conflicts How can one place solve all of these different problems? By utilizing all practices known to improve the quality of life spiritually and practically, The Psychic Guidance Online Network covers a wide variety of solutions to a wide variety of problems, formulated and tailored to specific individuals with very specific problems. In this effort, staff has (and continues to) research that which has helped in the past, is helping today, and will work in the future. Using distinctive procedures for employing the findings of this research provides the means to further investigate newer spheres of spiritual health. In addition, The Psychic Guidance Online Network is all- denominational and religious-non-specific. So seeking the services of The Psychic Guidance Online Network does not mean you abandon your present mental health care provider, physician, or place of worship. Instead, this service is used to supplement your current practices to answer questions that can not be immediately answered and to gain a whole spiritual self. What services are available through the Psychic Guidance Online Network? The services available through this network are artistic, astrological, divinatory, and healing in nature placing emphasis on self-analysis and correction of personal conflicts. This includes META-physical artwork, charts, channeling, biofeedback, interpretation, nutrition, aromatherapy, stone therapy, and conventional practices as well such as individual and/or group counseling among others. All of this and more is offered and available through the Internet using e-mail, fax, the telephone, or postal service. How much does this cost? There are very few services offered costing more than $25.00 or less then $10.00. Unlike other 1-900 psychic services, The Psychic Guidance Online Network does not charge by the minute, but instead by the service performed or product offered. Unlike your conventional therapist or physician, the Psychic Guidance Online Network does not charge by the hour either even though you may receive what are called "prescriptions" similar to what an actual health provider may issue. These fees fund all of the products, services, equipment, and activities performed through The Psychic Guidance Online Network. However, no fees are required to take advantage of the FREE workshops available from the web site. Can those under the age of 18 use the Psychic Guidance Online Network? Yes, however due to the fact that the payment system used utilizes 1-900 numbers, parental permission to use what is offered is mandatory. Otherwise, there are no restrictions as to who can take advantage of The Psychic Guidance Online Network. In addition, children or teens raised in environments which consult these types of services can start to sense how and why humanity acts the way it does, and as a result, understand life, become secure, and direct life’s course according to personal plan. Is the Psychic Guidance Online Network similar to those other 1-900 phone psychics? The only thing in common with the popular 1-900 phone psychics and The Psychic Guidance Online Network is that the payment numbers begin with 1-900. No services are rendered through the telephone and there is no voice communication between Counselor and client unless special arrangements have been made through The Psychic Guidance Online Network. This ensures that the Counselors have more than enough time to contemplate an issue, analyze the situation, perform a service, and offer the best applicable solution. This network differs in many ways including: charging by the request instead of by the minute developing a personal and intimate relationship with you operating through the Internet providing examples providing FREE workshops and lectures with study guides asking for your input selling physical tools backing up claims and practices with testimonials, a performance record, and scientific data offering personal itineraries providing games and contests that foster META-physical education supplying unlimited service memberships What are your qualifications? The Psychic Guidance Online Counselors vary in education and training, however, most have university learning and spiritual workshop experience, and a few have traveled outside of the U.S. to study Eastern cultures and religions. One of the Counselors writes for a well known astrology magazine while the Psychic Guidance Online Manager has a Masters Degree in Clinical Psychology. How many people work in the Psychic Guidance Online Network? At the time of this writing, a very small number. But this small quantity is expected to increase as more people like yourself begin to consult The Psychic Guidance Online Network. The more Counselors available, the more services will be made available, covering every belief and practice of the "assistance scale." Do professionals use the Psychic Guidance Online Network? Yes, request for the services of this network are received from people of all walks of life including doctors, lawyers, school officials, etc. One of our Counselors has even serviced several undisclosed celebrities. What code of ethics does the Psychic Guidance Online Network follow? It is the policy … read more »
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