Question:
: :> : :> :> > :> :> > :> :> >> Why on EARTH is the word victims in quotes? I’m sorry, but your : little :> :> >> boy was a perp. :> :> > :> :> >Uh, MOST NORMAL fucking people call the parents, not the cops. What : kind :> : of :> :> >Nazi are you? :> :> >> :> :> >> : friend were in absolute tears and, of course, terrified. : Recently, :> : he :> :> >> :> :> >> Yeah, because they got caught. :> :> > :> :> >Duh! That was a really helpful comment. You be 9 with the cops in : your :> : face :> :> >and ask yourself if you would be terrified. :> :> >> :> :> >> and what if he had the money and decided it WAS worth doing? :> :> > :> :> >When then he would have reaped what he had sowed wouldn’t he. Geez, : talk :> :> >about been argumentative for arguements sake. Would hate to be your :> :> >neighbor. :> :> >> :> :> >Sarah :> :> I dunno, Sarah, when I was young I would have been scared to go break :> :> windows or steal bicycles or vandalize things, and that would have been :> :> a good effect of reasonable law and order. People being terrified to :> :> violate other people’s rights is a Good Thing(tm). If they can’t do it :> :> for the right reasons let them do it for whatever reason it takes!! :> :> Steve :> : :> : :> : You know what the cops did? They talked to the boys and then had us :> : neighbors work it out. Us neighbors working it out is the way it : _should_ :> : be. I don’t know what was going through Kai’s head at the time, but he :> : adamantly stated that it was an accident. I’ve mishot a few baseballs : in my :> : time, so I don’t really see any malicious intent and it has never : happened :> : again. But no doubt he was goofing off and already knew that throwing : rocks :> : never leads to anything good. :> : :> : When I say he would reap what he would sow, I meant it. I made it very :> : clear that the first time I had to deal with the cops on his behalf : before :> : puberty that didn’t involve a party or public nudity (koff) , WAS THE : LAST :> : TIME. :> : :> : I don’t condone any kind of destruction, but I don’t condone Nazi : parents :> : that like to do ‘your child, blah blah blah’ They lived one street over : for :> : Christ sakes and didn’t _allow_ their child to play with the other : children :> : because she was in a ‘private school’. When I called to let them know : that :> : he had earned the money to replace the window (it was a garage door : btw), :> : she asked me to have him put in the mailbox. Those kind of folks get on : my :> : last nerve and NO, I didn’t consider them victims, I considered them :> : assholes from fucking hell. :> : :> : The kids in my neighborhood are running through my house all the : time…I :> : know where they live and know their parents and if a problem ever : arises, :> : then they are escorted home to deal with it. The only time to bring in : the :> : cops is when the parents ‘won’t’ deal with it. :> : :> : It would be really nice is parents would consider child rearing a : community :> : effort and not one to be done by ‘the best schools’ and T.V. :> : :> : Sarah :> : :> : :> : :> : :> :> I still have not recieved a satisfactory answer to why you put :> the word victim in quotes. For you to do that implies that you :> don’t think your little snookums did anything particularly bad. :> :> I hadn’t said diddly squat one way or the other re: calling the :> cops. For all you know the VICTIMS [notice I didn't put quotes :> around the word] thought their house was being attacked by :> a bunch of anti-Semites, anti-Blacks, whatever. If a rock was :> thrown through my window, I don’t think I’d necessarily assume :> a stupid 9 year old little jerk threw it. :> :> BTW, 9 year olds don’t "Accidently" throw rocks. He knew :> what he was doing. Perhaps he threw it from far enough :> away that he didn’t actually expect it to go through a window, :> but it did just the same. :> :> Karen : : If you want to assign the terms ‘victim’ and ‘perp’ to an incident with a : broken garage window that could be amicably worked out between two sets of : communicating adults, then I submit you watch far too much television. YOU are the one that thinks because your little darling threw a rock through someone’s window that the people/person on the recieving end was a "victim" instead of a victim. YOU are the one that has to explain why your little snookums is "obviously" a harmless little fuzz ball instead of a little hellion who was brought up by parents who make excuses for his little highness. If your son did it intentionally, he WAS a perp and the people he did it to are victims. worthy of a federal case? Maybe not. I don’t know one way or the other if your little snookums is a neighborhood brat or not. : Why on earth would anyone make the connection that they were being attacked : by a hate group? Good Lord I don’t hold to that kind of paranoia. : According to that kind of logic, for all I know they could have thought the : sky was falling. Maybe if you were black or Jewish or an old person and had been subjected to other rock throwing events you’d think differently. : : Where exactly did I say he was ‘accidently’ throwing rocks? OH GEEZ, I : didn’t did I? In fact, I said ‘But no doubt he was goofing off and already : knew that throwing rocks never leads to anything good.’ Asking you to read : instead of throwing out Red Herrings is probably a useless request. : Then if he knew what he was doing, it was no accident and the people WERE victims and your son was the perpetrator. Do learn English. You seem to need a dictionary. Karen
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > : > :> > > :> > > :> >> Why on EARTH is the word victims in quotes? I’m sorry, but your little > :> >> boy was a perp. > :> > > :> >Uh, MOST NORMAL fucking people call the parents, not the cops. What kind > : of > :> >Nazi are you? > :> >> > :> >> : friend were in absolute tears and, of course, terrified. Recently, > : he > :> >> > :> >> Yeah, because they got caught. > :> > > :> >Duh! That was a really helpful comment. You be 9 with the cops in your > : face > :> >and ask yourself if you would be terrified. > :> >> > :> >> and what if he had the money and decided it WAS worth doing? > :> > > :> >When then he would have reaped what he had sowed wouldn’t he. Geez, talk > :> >about been argumentative for arguements sake. Would hate to be your > :> >neighbor. > :> >> > :> >Sarah > :> I dunno, Sarah, when I was young I would have been scared to go break > :> windows or steal bicycles or vandalize things, and that would have been > :> a good effect of reasonable law and order. People being terrified to > :> violate other people’s rights is a Good Thing(tm). If they can’t do it > :> for the right reasons let them do it for whatever reason it takes!! > :> Steve > : > : > : You know what the cops did? They talked to the boys and then had us > : neighbors work it out. Us neighbors working it out is the way it _should_ > : be. I don’t know what was going through Kai’s head at the time, but he > : adamantly stated that it was an accident. I’ve mishot a few baseballs in my > : time, so I don’t really see any malicious intent and it has never happened > : again. But no doubt he was goofing off and already knew that throwing rocks > : never leads to anything good. > : > : When I say he would reap what he would sow, I meant it. I made it very > : clear that the first time I had to deal with the cops on his behalf before > : puberty that didn’t involve a party or public nudity (koff) , WAS THE LAST > : TIME. > : > : I don’t condone any kind of destruction, but I don’t condone Nazi parents > : that like to do ‘your child, blah blah blah’ They lived one street over for > : Christ sakes and didn’t _allow_ their child to play with the other children > : because she was in a ‘private school’. When I called to let them know that > : he had earned the money to replace the window (it was a garage door btw), > : she asked me to have him put in the mailbox. Those kind of folks get on my > : last nerve and NO, I didn’t consider them victims, I considered them > : assholes from fucking hell. > : > : The kids in my neighborhood are running through my house all the time…I > : know where they live and know their parents and if a problem ever arises, > : then they are escorted home to deal with it. The only time to bring in the > : cops is when the parents ‘won’t’ deal with it. > : > : It would be really nice is parents would consider child rearing a community > : effort and not one to be done by ‘the best schools’ and T.V. > : > : Sarah > : > : > : > : > I still have not recieved a satisfactory answer to why you put > the word victim in quotes. For you to do that implies that you > don’t think your little snookums did anything particularly bad. > I hadn’t said diddly squat one way or the other re: calling the > cops. For all you know the VICTIMS [notice I didn't put quotes > around the word] thought their house was being attacked by > a bunch of anti-Semites, anti-Blacks, whatever. If a rock was > thrown through my window, I don’t think I’d necessarily assume > a stupid 9 year old little jerk threw it. > BTW, 9 year olds don’t "Accidently" throw rocks. He knew > what he was doing. Perhaps he threw it from far enough > away that he didn’t actually expect it to go through a window, > but it did just the same. > Karen
If you want to assign the terms ‘victim’ and ‘perp’ to an incident with a broken garage window that could be amicably worked out between two sets of communicating adults, then I submit you watch far too much television. Why on earth would anyone make the connection that they were being attacked by a hate group? Good Lord I don’t hold to that kind of paranoia. According to that kind of logic, for all I know they could have thought the sky was falling. Where exactly did I say he was ‘accidently’ throwing rocks? OH GEEZ, I didn’t did I? In fact, I said ‘But no doubt he was goofing off and already knew that throwing rocks never leads to anything good.’ Asking you to read instead of throwing out Red Herrings is probably a useless request. Sarah
Response:
:
:> > :> > :> >> Why on EARTH is the word victims in quotes? I’m sorry, but your little :> >> boy was a perp. :> > :> >Uh, MOST NORMAL fucking people call the parents, not the cops. What kind : of :> >Nazi are you? :> >> :> >> : friend were in absolute tears and, of course, terrified. Recently, : he :> >> :> >> Yeah, because they got caught. :> > :> >Duh! That was a really helpful comment. You be 9 with the cops in your : face :> >and ask yourself if you would be terrified. :> >> :> >> and what if he had the money and decided it WAS worth doing? :> > :> >When then he would have reaped what he had sowed wouldn’t he. Geez, talk :> >about been argumentative for arguements sake. Would hate to be your :> >neighbor. :> >> :> >Sarah :> I dunno, Sarah, when I was young I would have been scared to go break :> windows or steal bicycles or vandalize things, and that would have been :> a good effect of reasonable law and order. People being terrified to :> violate other people’s rights is a Good Thing(tm). If they can’t do it :> for the right reasons let them do it for whatever reason it takes!! :> Steve : : : You know what the cops did? They talked to the boys and then had us : neighbors work it out. Us neighbors working it out is the way it _should_ : be. I don’t know what was going through Kai’s head at the time, but he : adamantly stated that it was an accident. I’ve mishot a few baseballs in my : time, so I don’t really see any malicious intent and it has never happened : again. But no doubt he was goofing off and already knew that throwing rocks : never leads to anything good. : : When I say he would reap what he would sow, I meant it. I made it very : clear that the first time I had to deal with the cops on his behalf before : puberty that didn’t involve a party or public nudity (koff) , WAS THE LAST : TIME. : : I don’t condone any kind of destruction, but I don’t condone Nazi parents : that like to do ‘your child, blah blah blah’ They lived one street over for : Christ sakes and didn’t _allow_ their child to play with the other children : because she was in a ‘private school’. When I called to let them know that : he had earned the money to replace the window (it was a garage door btw), : she asked me to have him put in the mailbox. Those kind of folks get on my : last nerve and NO, I didn’t consider them victims, I considered them : assholes from fucking hell. : : The kids in my neighborhood are running through my house all the time…I : know where they live and know their parents and if a problem ever arises, : then they are escorted home to deal with it. The only time to bring in the : cops is when the parents ‘won’t’ deal with it. : : It would be really nice is parents would consider child rearing a community : effort and not one to be done by ‘the best schools’ and T.V. : : Sarah : : : : I still have not recieved a satisfactory answer to why you put the word victim in quotes. For you to do that implies that you don’t think your little snookums did anything particularly bad. I hadn’t said diddly squat one way or the other re: calling the cops. For all you know the VICTIMS [notice I didn't put quotes around the word] thought their house was being attacked by a bunch of anti-Semites, anti-Blacks, whatever. If a rock was thrown through my window, I don’t think I’d necessarily assume a stupid 9 year old little jerk threw it. BTW, 9 year olds don’t "Accidently" throw rocks. He knew what he was doing. Perhaps he threw it from far enough away that he didn’t actually expect it to go through a window, but it did just the same. Karen
Response:
:>
:> :>> Why on EARTH is the word victims in quotes? I’m sorry, but your little :>> boy was a perp. :> :>Uh, MOST NORMAL fucking people call the parents, not the cops. What kind of :>Nazi are you? :>> :>> : friend were in absolute tears and, of course, terrified. Recently, he :>> :>> Yeah, because they got caught. :> :>Duh! That was a really helpful comment. You be 9 with the cops in your face :>and ask yourself if you would be terrified. :>> :>> and what if he had the money and decided it WAS worth doing? :> :>When then he would have reaped what he had sowed wouldn’t he. Geez, talk :>about been argumentative for arguements sake. Would hate to be your :>neighbor. :>> :>Sarah : I dunno, Sarah, when I was young I would have been scared to go break : windows or steal bicycles or vandalize things, and that would have been : a good effect of reasonable law and order. People being terrified to : violate other people’s rights is a Good Thing(tm). If they can’t do it : for the right reasons let them do it for whatever reason it takes!! : Steve : : Precisely. Karen
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Why on EARTH is the word victims in quotes? I’m sorry, but your little >> boy was a perp. >Uh, MOST NORMAL fucking people call the parents, not the cops. What kind of >Nazi are you? >> : friend were in absolute tears and, of course, terrified. Recently, he >> Yeah, because they got caught. >Duh! That was a really helpful comment. You be 9 with the cops in your face >and ask yourself if you would be terrified. >> and what if he had the money and decided it WAS worth doing? >When then he would have reaped what he had sowed wouldn’t he. Geez, talk >about been argumentative for arguements sake. Would hate to be your >neighbor. >Sarah > I dunno, Sarah, when I was young I would have been scared to go break > windows or steal bicycles or vandalize things, and that would have been > a good effect of reasonable law and order. People being terrified to > violate other people’s rights is a Good Thing(tm). If they can’t do it > for the right reasons let them do it for whatever reason it takes!! > Steve
You know what the cops did? They talked to the boys and then had us neighbors work it out. Us neighbors working it out is the way it _should_ be. I don’t know what was going through Kai’s head at the time, but he adamantly stated that it was an accident. I’ve mishot a few baseballs in my time, so I don’t really see any malicious intent and it has never happened again. But no doubt he was goofing off and already knew that throwing rocks never leads to anything good. When I say he would reap what he would sow, I meant it. I made it very clear that the first time I had to deal with the cops on his behalf before puberty that didn’t involve a party or public nudity (koff) , WAS THE LAST TIME. I don’t condone any kind of destruction, but I don’t condone Nazi parents that like to do ‘your child, blah blah blah’ They lived one street over for Christ sakes and didn’t _allow_ their child to play with the other children because she was in a ‘private school’. When I called to let them know that he had earned the money to replace the window (it was a garage door btw), she asked me to have him put in the mailbox. Those kind of folks get on my last nerve and NO, I didn’t consider them victims, I considered them assholes from fucking hell. The kids in my neighborhood are running through my house all the time…I know where they live and know their parents and if a problem ever arises, then they are escorted home to deal with it. The only time to bring in the cops is when the parents ‘won’t’ deal with it. It would be really nice is parents would consider child rearing a community effort and not one to be done by ‘the best schools’ and T.V. Sarah
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Why on EARTH is the word victims in quotes? I’m sorry, but your little > boy was a perp. >Uh, MOST NORMAL fucking people call the parents, not the cops. What kind of >Nazi are you? > : friend were in absolute tears and, of course, terrified. Recently, he > Yeah, because they got caught. >Duh! That was a really helpful comment. You be 9 with the cops in your face >and ask yourself if you would be terrified. > and what if he had the money and decided it WAS worth doing? >When then he would have reaped what he had sowed wouldn’t he. Geez, talk >about been argumentative for arguements sake. Would hate to be your >neighbor. >Sarah
I dunno, Sarah, when I was young I would have been scared to go break windows or steal bicycles or vandalize things, and that would have been a good effect of reasonable law and order. People being terrified to violate other people’s rights is a Good Thing(tm). If they can’t do it for the right reasons let them do it for whatever reason it takes!! Steve
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >: My son was caught about a year ago throwing rocks and he broke someone’s >: window. The ‘victims’ of this incident called the cops. My son and his >Why on EARTH is the word victims in quotes? I’m sorry, but your little >boy was a perp. >: friend were in absolute tears and, of course, terrified. Recently, he >Yeah, because they got caught. >: brought a situation to me that had the potential to result in similar >: consequences. A boy had wrecked a friend’s bike, the boy’s bike got stolen >: and my son was accused of the theft. Outraged and insulted, my son and his >: friends wanted to retalitate. He brought this to me and we talked about it. >: Instead of my inital reaction of ‘NO, don’t do it!’, I asked pointed >: questions. I took him through the scenerio of retaliation and the list of >: possible consequences both good and bad. Then we reviewed how he felt the >: time that he did have to deal with extremely negative consequences (ie. the >: cops). He remember the feelings, he remembered the work he had to do in >: order to earn the money to pay for the damage he caused. _HE_ decided that >: no matter what his friends wanted to do, retalitation was just not worth it. >: He explained it to his friends in a manner they understood and they ended up >: agreeing with him and respecting him for it. >and what if he had the money and decided it WAS worth doing? >Karen
I agree with you about this. Take all violent little terrorists and publically whip them and make them pay for it. Adult or child, people only have rights if they respect those of others. Steve
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Oh God, get over yourself, Steve – the date example, was just that, AN > >EXAMPLE. Did you even read the article? <shrug> Duh, of course there is >a > >HUGE difference between being pushed out and a minor hurt, but my point >is > >(and I did say it pretty fucking clearly the first time), the incident >with > >Columbine was dealing with a child who was very mentally ill and > >inappropriately medicated for it. How do you know that he didn’t take >ONE > >single rejection incident and turn it into a perception that led him to > >isolation? > Nobody does that from ONE rejection. >Yeah right. Guess you haven’t lived with a BP lately. A manic in my family >had a murderous thrumbone
What’s a murderous thrumbone"? >because his friend didn’t call him back when he >was suppose to. He went over and waited for him and then beat the shit out >of him. The friend had been called in for work. Its all about perception, >Steve. What wouldn’t even phase a ‘balanced’ person can send an unbalanced >person into complete hysterics.
Yeah, but BP’s are beyond anyone’s figuring out. >What do you THINK made him "mentally > ill", anyway? That doesn’t just "happen", or did you get THAT one wrong > TOO!!? >That depends on what kind of mental illness you are talking about. Some are >genetic and physcial – some are environmental.
Sure, but what I was talking about are the non-organic causes of mental disorders that are based on abuse. > > What would you define as completely pushed out anyway? Having > >the whole class make fun of you? Laugh at you? The _popular_ kids >turning > >you into their personal verbal punching bag? It’s all still rejection >and > >should not lead to an immediate hysterical reaction that violence is > >appropriate. > It’s the sum total of mistreatment by the society including parents. >—— >If you recall, I made that statement already. If a kid is not being >accepted at home, it’s going to effect every other relationship and social >situation in his life.
I would even go so far to guess that if a child is not mistreated at home that it won’t even matter than he is shunned at school, that he will still be together enough to handle it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->It’s a personalized thing, not easily predicted, but if it is bad enough, >then > it turns them to monsters inside. They have no connection to others that > makes them feel for anyone else, and have given up on everyone else >totally. >"They have no connection to others" is a powerful statement and very true. > > What about when the schools were desegregated in the 60’s? I > >don’t recall reading about a whole lot of black folks who went postal > >because they were shunned. > I guess you never heard of the major riots of the 1960’s. Watts, Harlem, > etc. But even so, a minority has its own people, there is someone else to > live for. >The riots were not about being rejected in school. And if any child has >_his own people_, then things are going to be a whole lot easier when the >rest of the world treats you like shit.
Yes, instead of turning to drugs or crime in a self-destructive way, you would riot against your oppressors. The schools then were segregated by neighborhood. They were all black, and were poorly funded. But they turned out some great people. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Most physcially attractive and arrogant human should be taken to task for > >being assholes….that’s a given. > >As far as what I went through. LMAO. I was six feet tall in 6th grade >with > >braces and big ears – you do the math. AND I got through all of my > >education without a gun. > >Sarah > In this society even the "ugliest" person is taught to reject their own > "ugly" counterpart of the opposite sex. The ugly don’t even get to have > each other! > Steve >Some folks judge the exterior of a human as the whole and some don’t. >Plastic people fucking deserve each other and their own shallow existence. >Think of them at the end of their lives when they are old and alone and >stuck in a nursing home. It all works out in the end….*S* >Sarah
But *I* want it to work out in the FIRST place. And I think it can be done. I think we have to try to make it so no matter WHO we have to Kill to make it so! I want to see a time when those who are haughty and unsociable to some are the only ones shunned, and the rest of us more sociable but just not very gorgeous people are making love to each other in groups so no one gets left out of Love, not EVER AGAIN! And WE’LL make SURE of it. I want to see a time when those who are lucky don’t get to enslave the rest who are not, instead they will be enslaved if they try. EVERYONE deserves a place to have as their own, to keep warm and keep their stuff. They deserve it just for having been born into this species at this time on this planet! We HAVE enough homes for everyone, and the lucky were born just as ignorant and helpless and naked as the rest of us, and with no greater claim to anything than the rest of us!! Those who want to own other people’s homes will find themselves having to beg forgiveness, or else just beg. And again, we’ll make sure no one gets left out of having a Life and a Home, not EVER AGAIN! And WE’LL make SURE of it. Steve
Response:
> : My son was caught about a year ago throwing rocks and he broke someone’s > : window. The ‘victims’ of this incident called the cops. My son and his > Why on EARTH is the word victims in quotes? I’m sorry, but your little > boy was a perp.
Uh, MOST NORMAL fucking people call the parents, not the cops. What kind of Nazi are you? > : friend were in absolute tears and, of course, terrified. Recently, he > Yeah, because they got caught.
Duh! That was a really helpful comment. You be 9 with the cops in your face and ask yourself if you would be terrified. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> : brought a situation to me that had the potential to result in similar > : consequences. A boy had wrecked a friend’s bike, the boy’s bike got stolen > : and my son was accused of the theft. Outraged and insulted, my son and his > : friends wanted to retalitate. He brought this to me and we talked about it. > : Instead of my inital reaction of ‘NO, don’t do it!’, I asked pointed > : questions. I took him through the scenerio of retaliation and the list of > : possible consequences both good and bad. Then we reviewed how he felt the > : time that he did have to deal with extremely negative consequences (ie. the > : cops). He remember the feelings, he remembered the work he had to do in > : order to earn the money to pay for the damage he caused. _HE_ decided that > : no matter what his friends wanted to do, retalitation was just not worth it. > : He explained it to his friends in a manner they understood and they ended up > : agreeing with him and respecting him for it. > and what if he had the money and decided it WAS worth doing?
When then he would have reaped what he had sowed wouldn’t he. Geez, talk about been argumentative for arguements sake. Would hate to be your neighbor. Sarah
Response:
: My son was caught about a year ago throwing rocks and he broke someone’s : window. The ‘victims’ of this incident called the cops. My son and his Why on EARTH is the word victims in quotes? I’m sorry, but your little boy was a perp. : friend were in absolute tears and, of course, terrified. Recently, he Yeah, because they got caught. : brought a situation to me that had the potential to result in similar : consequences. A boy had wrecked a friend’s bike, the boy’s bike got stolen : and my son was accused of the theft. Outraged and insulted, my son and his : friends wanted to retalitate. He brought this to me and we talked about it. : Instead of my inital reaction of ‘NO, don’t do it!’, I asked pointed : questions. I took him through the scenerio of retaliation and the list of : possible consequences both good and bad. Then we reviewed how he felt the : time that he did have to deal with extremely negative consequences (ie. the : cops). He remember the feelings, he remembered the work he had to do in : order to earn the money to pay for the damage he caused. _HE_ decided that : no matter what his friends wanted to do, retalitation was just not worth it. : He explained it to his friends in a manner they understood and they ended up : agreeing with him and respecting him for it. and what if he had the money and decided it WAS worth doing? Karen
Response:
> >Oh God, get over yourself, Steve – the date example, was just that, AN >EXAMPLE. Did you even read the article? <shrug> Duh, of course there is a >HUGE difference between being pushed out and a minor hurt, but my point is >(and I did say it pretty fucking clearly the first time), the incident with >Columbine was dealing with a child who was very mentally ill and >inappropriately medicated for it. How do you know that he didn’t take ONE >single rejection incident and turn it into a perception that led him to >isolation? > Nobody does that from ONE rejection.
Yeah right. Guess you haven’t lived with a BP lately. A manic in my family had a murderous thrumbone because his friend didn’t call him back when he was suppose to. He went over and waited for him and then beat the shit out of him. The friend had been called in for work. Its all about perception, Steve. What wouldn’t even phase a ‘balanced’ person can send an unbalanced person into complete hysterics. What do you THINK made him "mentally > ill", anyway? That doesn’t just "happen", or did you get THAT one wrong > TOO!!?
That depends on what kind of mental illness you are talking about. Some are genetic and physcial – some are environmental. > What would you define as completely pushed out anyway? Having >the whole class make fun of you? Laugh at you? The _popular_ kids turning >you into their personal verbal punching bag? It’s all still rejection and >should not lead to an immediate hysterical reaction that violence is >appropriate. > It’s the sum total of mistreatment by the society including parents.
—— If you recall, I made that statement already. If a kid is not being accepted at home, it’s going to effect every other relationship and social situation in his life. >It’s a personalized thing, not easily predicted, but if it is bad enough, then > it turns them to monsters inside. They have no connection to others that > makes them feel for anyone else, and have given up on everyone else
totally. "They have no connection to others" is a powerful statement and very true. > What about when the schools were desegregated in the 60’s? I >don’t recall reading about a whole lot of black folks who went postal >because they were shunned. > I guess you never heard of the major riots of the 1960’s. Watts, Harlem, > etc. But even so, a minority has its own people, there is someone else to > live for.
The riots were not about being rejected in school. And if any child has _his own people_, then things are going to be a whole lot easier when the rest of the world treats you like shit. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Most physcially attractive and arrogant human should be taken to task for >being assholes….that’s a given. >As far as what I went through. LMAO. I was six feet tall in 6th grade with >braces and big ears – you do the math. AND I got through all of my >education without a gun. >Sarah > In this society even the "ugliest" person is taught to reject their own > "ugly" counterpart of the opposite sex. The ugly don’t even get to have > each other! > Steve
Some folks judge the exterior of a human as the whole and some don’t. Plastic people fucking deserve each other and their own shallow existence. Think of them at the end of their lives when they are old and alone and stuck in a nursing home. It all works out in the end….*S* Sarah
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > While I appreciate the spirit of this article, there are some >deficiencies > >with the logic. > >From my own schooling as a counselor, obviously ‘acceptance’ is an >important > >part of a teenagers life. However, it is very important for children to > >understand several things (1) Not everyone is going to like you everyday >of > >your life and ‘making’ everyone like you is not a realistic expectation. > >(2) Having worked with and lived with a manic personality (such as the > >ringleader at Columbine), ‘perception’ of rejection is prevalent on a > >downward swing NO MATTER if real rejection is there or not. (3) 100% > >acceptance at home is a HUGE factor is how a child is going to perceive >his > >acceptance in the outside world. If a kid is told at home that he is > >’weird, stupid, fucked up, etc.’, that is what he is going to _hear_ in >ANY > >constructive critism he receives, be it good or bad. (4) Teaching >children > >it’s okay to step up to the plate and lay down a boundary with their >friends > >does NOT mean instant rejection by his peers. Let me give an example. > >My son was caught about a year ago throwing rocks and he broke someone’s > >window. The ‘victims’ of this incident called the cops. My son and his > >friend were in absolute tears and, of course, terrified. Recently, he > >brought a situation to me that had the potential to result in similar > >consequences. A boy had wrecked a friend’s bike, the boy’s bike got >stolen > >and my son was accused of the theft. Outraged and insulted, my son and >his > >friends wanted to retalitate. He brought this to me and we talked about >it. > >Instead of my inital reaction of ‘NO, don’t do it!’, I asked pointed > >questions. I took him through the scenerio of retaliation and the list >of > >possible consequences both good and bad. Then we reviewed how he felt >the > >time that he did have to deal with extremely negative consequences (ie. >the > >cops). He remember the feelings, he remembered the work he had to do in > >order to earn the money to pay for the damage he caused. _HE_ decided >that > >no matter what his friends wanted to do, retalitation was just not worth >it. > >He explained it to his friends in a manner they understood and they ended >up > >agreeing with him and respecting him for it. > >The point of this article is misleading. Yes, someone who is rejected by > >another – say for instance a girl turns a boy down for a date – is going >to > >sting the heart a little bit and hurt feelings. Transmuting those >natural > >reactions into a general statement that it is going to lead to violence >is > >quite another story. There is a large gap there. I think that it is >very > >important that children be allowed the space and time to _feel and deal_ > >with feelings of rejection and be okay with the fact that it is a part of > >life. Without those tools a child is much more likely to internalize >those > >feelings. I believe that is where the real danger lies. Coping tools >are > >one of the most important things a parent gives to a child because it >molds > >their perceptions for the rest of their life. Can you imagine what kind >of > >adult a child would become that had never known adversity, rejection or > >hurt? > >Sarah > >Mom to Kai (10) and Tori (9) > I see, you’re worried that we’re going to take girls to task for abuse of > boys, probably because you liked doing that. But actually there is a big > difference between being pushed-out as some kids are, and just a minor > disappointment. But girls could probably benefit from being taken to task > fr being heartless and for that to be less accepted socially and > publically. > Steve >Oh God, get over yourself, Steve – the date example, was just that, AN >EXAMPLE. Did you even read the article? <shrug> Duh, of course there is a >HUGE difference between being pushed out and a minor hurt, but my point is >(and I did say it pretty fucking clearly the first time), the incident with >Columbine was dealing with a child who was very mentally ill and >inappropriately medicated for it. How do you know that he didn’t take ONE >single rejection incident and turn it into a perception that led him to >isolation?
Nobody does that from ONE rejection. What do you THINK made him "mentally ill", anyway? That doesn’t just "happen", or did you get THAT one wrong TOO!!? > What would you define as completely pushed out anyway? Having >the whole class make fun of you? Laugh at you? The _popular_ kids turning >you into their personal verbal punching bag? It’s all still rejection and >should not lead to an immediate hysterical reaction that violence is >appropriate.
It’s the sum total of mistreatment by the society including parents. It’s a personalized thing, not easily predicted, but if it is bad enough, then it turns them to monsters inside. They have no connection to others that makes them feel for anyone else, and have given up on everyone else totally. > What about when the schools were desegregated in the 60’s? I >don’t recall reading about a whole lot of black folks who went postal >because they were shunned.
I guess you never heard of the major riots of the 1960’s. Watts, Harlem, etc. But even so, a minority has its own people, there is someone else to live for. >Most physcially attractive and arrogant human should be taken to task for >being assholes….that’s a given. >As far as what I went through. LMAO. I was six feet tall in 6th grade with >braces and big ears – you do the math. AND I got through all of my >education without a gun. >Sarah
In this society even the "ugliest" person is taught to reject their own "ugly" counterpart of the opposite sex. The ugly don’t even get to have each other! Steve
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> While I appreciate the spirit of this article, there are some deficiencies >with the logic. >From my own schooling as a counselor, obviously ‘acceptance’ is an important >part of a teenagers life. However, it is very important for children to >understand several things (1) Not everyone is going to like you everyday of >your life and ‘making’ everyone like you is not a realistic expectation. >(2) Having worked with and lived with a manic personality (such as the >ringleader at Columbine), ‘perception’ of rejection is prevalent on a >downward swing NO MATTER if real rejection is there or not. (3) 100% >acceptance at home is a HUGE factor is how a child is going to perceive his >acceptance in the outside world. If a kid is told at home that he is >’weird, stupid, fucked up, etc.’, that is what he is going to _hear_ in ANY >constructive critism he receives, be it good or bad. (4) Teaching children >it’s okay to step up to the plate and lay down a boundary with their friends >does NOT mean instant rejection by his peers. Let me give an example. >My son was caught about a year ago throwing rocks and he broke someone’s >window. The ‘victims’ of this incident called the cops. My son and his >friend were in absolute tears and, of course, terrified. Recently, he >brought a situation to me that had the potential to result in similar >consequences. A boy had wrecked a friend’s bike, the boy’s bike got stolen >and my son was accused of the theft. Outraged and insulted, my son and his >friends wanted to retalitate. He brought this to me and we talked about it. >Instead of my inital reaction of ‘NO, don’t do it!’, I asked pointed >questions. I took him through the scenerio of retaliation and the list of >possible consequences both good and bad. Then we reviewed how he felt the >time that he did have to deal with extremely negative consequences (ie. the >cops). He remember the feelings, he remembered the work he had to do in >order to earn the money to pay for the damage he caused. _HE_ decided that >no matter what his friends wanted to do, retalitation was just not worth it. >He explained it to his friends in a manner they understood and they ended up >agreeing with him and respecting him for it. >The point of this article is misleading. Yes, someone who is rejected by >another – say for instance a girl turns a boy down for a date – is going to >sting the heart a little bit and hurt feelings. Transmuting those natural >reactions into a general statement that it is going to lead to violence is >quite another story. There is a large gap there. I think that it is very >important that children be allowed the space and time to _feel and deal_ >with feelings of rejection and be okay with the fact that it is a part of >life. Without those tools a child is much more likely to internalize those >feelings. I believe that is where the real danger lies. Coping tools are >one of the most important things a parent gives to a child because it molds >their perceptions for the rest of their life. Can you imagine what kind of >adult a child would become that had never known adversity, rejection or >hurt? >Sarah >Mom to Kai (10) and Tori (9) > I see, you’re worried that we’re going to take girls to task for abuse of > boys, probably because you liked doing that. But actually there is a big > difference between being pushed-out as some kids are, and just a minor > disappointment. But girls could probably benefit from being taken to task > fr being heartless and for that to be less accepted socially and > publically. > Steve
Oh God, get over yourself, Steve – the date example, was just that, AN EXAMPLE. Did you even read the article? <shrug> Duh, of course there is a HUGE difference between being pushed out and a minor hurt, but my point is (and I did say it pretty fucking clearly the first time), the incident with Columbine was dealing with a child who was very mentally ill and inappropriately medicated for it. How do you know that he didn’t take ONE single rejection incident and turn it into a perception that led him to isolation? What would you define as completely pushed out anyway? Having the whole class make fun of you? Laugh at you? The _popular_ kids turning you into their personal verbal punching bag? It’s all still rejection and should not lead to an immediate hysterical reaction that violence is appropriate. What about when the schools were desegregated in the 60’s? I don’t recall reading about a whole lot of black folks who went postal because they were shunned. Most physcially attractive and arrogant human should be taken to task for being assholes….that’s a given. As far as what I went through. LMAO. I was six feet tall in 6th grade with braces and big ears – you do the math. AND I got through all of my education without a gun. Sarah
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > While I appreciate the spirit of this article, there are some deficiencies >with the logic. >From my own schooling as a counselor, obviously ‘acceptance’ is an important >part of a teenagers life. However, it is very important for children to >understand several things (1) Not everyone is going to like you everyday of >your life and ‘making’ everyone like you is not a realistic expectation. >(2) Having worked with and lived with a manic personality (such as the >ringleader at Columbine), ‘perception’ of rejection is prevalent on a >downward swing NO MATTER if real rejection is there or not. (3) 100% >acceptance at home is a HUGE factor is how a child is going to perceive his >acceptance in the outside world. If a kid is told at home that he is >’weird, stupid, fucked up, etc.’, that is what he is going to _hear_ in ANY >constructive critism he receives, be it good or bad. (4) Teaching children >it’s okay to step up to the plate and lay down a boundary with their friends >does NOT mean instant rejection by his peers. Let me give an example. >My son was caught about a year ago throwing rocks and he broke someone’s >window. The ‘victims’ of this incident called the cops. My son and his >friend were in absolute tears and, of course, terrified. Recently, he >brought a situation to me that had the potential to result in similar >consequences. A boy had wrecked a friend’s bike, the boy’s bike got stolen >and my son was accused of the theft. Outraged and insulted, my son and his >friends wanted to retalitate. He brought this to me and we talked about it. >Instead of my inital reaction of ‘NO, don’t do it!’, I asked pointed >questions. I took him through the scenerio of retaliation and the list of >possible consequences both good and bad. Then we reviewed how he felt the >time that he did have to deal with extremely negative consequences (ie. the >cops). He remember the feelings, he remembered the work he had to do in >order to earn the money to pay for the damage he caused. _HE_ decided that >no matter what his friends wanted to do, retalitation was just not worth it. >He explained it to his friends in a manner they understood and they ended up >agreeing with him and respecting him for it. >The point of this article is misleading. Yes, someone who is rejected by >another – say for instance a girl turns a boy down for a date – is going to >sting the heart a little bit and hurt feelings. Transmuting those natural >reactions into a general statement that it is going to lead to violence is >quite another story. There is a large gap there. I think that it is very >important that children be allowed the space and time to _feel and deal_ >with feelings of rejection and be okay with the fact that it is a part of >life. Without those tools a child is much more likely to internalize those >feelings. I believe that is where the real danger lies. Coping tools are >one of the most important things a parent gives to a child because it molds >their perceptions for the rest of their life. Can you imagine what kind of >adult a child would become that had never known adversity, rejection or >hurt? >Sarah >Mom to Kai (10) and Tori (9)
I see, you’re worried that we’re going to take girls to task for abuse of boys, probably because you liked doing that. But actually there is a big difference between being pushed-out as some kids are, and just a minor disappointment. But girls could probably benefit from being taken to task fr being heartless and for that to be less accepted socially and publically. Steve
Response:
While I appreciate the spirit of this article, there are some deficiencies with the logic. From my own schooling as a counselor, obviously ‘acceptance’ is an important part of a teenagers life. However, it is very important for children to understand several things (1) Not everyone is going to like you everyday of your life and ‘making’ everyone like you is not a realistic expectation. (2) Having worked with and lived with a manic personality (such as the ringleader at Columbine), ‘perception’ of rejection is prevalent on a downward swing NO MATTER if real rejection is there or not. (3) 100% acceptance at home is a HUGE factor is how a child is going to perceive his acceptance in the outside world. If a kid is told at home that he is ‘weird, stupid, fucked up, etc.’, that is what he is going to _hear_ in ANY constructive critism he receives, be it good or bad. (4) Teaching children it’s okay to step up to the plate and lay down a boundary with their friends does NOT mean instant rejection by his peers. Let me give an example. My son was caught about a year ago throwing rocks and he broke someone’s window. The ‘victims’ of this incident called the cops. My son and his friend were in absolute tears and, of course, terrified. Recently, he brought a situation to me that had the potential to result in similar consequences. A boy had wrecked a friend’s bike, the boy’s bike got stolen and my son was accused of the theft. Outraged and insulted, my son and his friends wanted to retalitate. He brought this to me and we talked about it. Instead of my inital reaction of ‘NO, don’t do it!’, I asked pointed questions. I took him through the scenerio of retaliation and the list of possible consequences both good and bad. Then we reviewed how he felt the time that he did have to deal with extremely negative consequences (ie. the cops). He remember the feelings, he remembered the work he had to do in order to earn the money to pay for the damage he caused. _HE_ decided that no matter what his friends wanted to do, retalitation was just not worth it. He explained it to his friends in a manner they understood and they ended up agreeing with him and respecting him for it. The point of this article is misleading. Yes, someone who is rejected by another – say for instance a girl turns a boy down for a date – is going to sting the heart a little bit and hurt feelings. Transmuting those natural reactions into a general statement that it is going to lead to violence is quite another story. There is a large gap there. I think that it is very important that children be allowed the space and time to _feel and deal_ with feelings of rejection and be okay with the fact that it is a part of life. Without those tools a child is much more likely to internalize those feelings. I believe that is where the real danger lies. Coping tools are one of the most important things a parent gives to a child because it molds their perceptions for the rest of their life. Can you imagine what kind of adult a child would become that had never known adversity, rejection or hurt? Sarah Mom to Kai (10) and Tori (9)
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