Question:
— origin: alt.parenting.solutions: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >| >|>I think the clothing wasn’t the cause of their abherrant behaviour, but was >|>a symptom of it, that was ignored as fashion. Too bad they couldn’t be >|>helped. How many of their exact kind are in school today and will someone >|>approach them to offer help? I hope more of these incidents can be >|>avoided. >|> >| >|Unfortunately, here in California there have been several copy-cats. One >|school was closed down and evacuated after a bomb threat. Pipe bomb was found >|and exploded only to find out it was a fake made to look like the real thing. >| >|In another school, two kids were shooting nearby the school and the school was >|evacuated. They were shooting a pellet gun. >| >|"trench coat mafia" apologists are wearing black trench coats to school. >| >|People in general are stupid. I just heard on the news that people were >|registering the name "trench coat mafia" as domain name as the shooting was >|being covered by the news. >| >|I’d like to know why the human race can’t seem to learn from their screwups?
Half the people on the planet are at or below the 50th percentile in intelligence. ;-) Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil." BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World." ICQ 26776011 | — Bardic Motto If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all. —- Noam Chomsky
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>Half the people on the planet are at or below the 50th percentile in >intelligence. ;-)
I’d be willing to bet it’s more than half :-) Kendra *Proud to be Outlandish!* http://www.geocities.com/heartland/lane/6516 — Visit my pages of SnowGlobes! http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Lane/6516/snowglobes.htm
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writ: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I think the clothing wasn’t the cause of their abherrant behaviour, but was >a symptom of it, that was ignored as fashion. Too bad they couldn’t be >helped. How many of their exact kind are in school today and will someone >approach them to offer help? I hope more of these incidents can be >avoided. >Unfortunately, here in California there have been several copy-cats. One >school was closed down and evacuated after a bomb threat. Pipe bomb was found >and exploded only to find out it was a fake made to look like the real thing. >In another school, two kids were shooting nearby the school and the school was >evacuated. They were shooting a pellet gun. >"trench coat mafia" apologists are wearing black trench coats to school. >People in general are stupid. I just heard on the news that people were >registering the name "trench coat mafia" as domain name as the shooting was >being covered by the news. >I’d like to know why the human race can’t seem to learn from their screwups?
People are stupid. Individuals may be very bright, but *people* are morons, by and large. Kathleen "If sense were common, more people would have it." — Me ICQ# – 33613577 **Spam Trap** Accentuate the Positive to send e-mail.
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>>Half the people on the planet are at or below the 50th percentile in >intelligence. ;-) >I’d be willing to bet it’s more than half :-)
And even those on the other side of the "half" have their days! :-} Kandle – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Kendra >*Proud to be Outlandish!* >http://www.geocities.com/heartland/lane/6516 >– >Visit my pages of SnowGlobes! >http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Lane/6516/snowglobes.htm
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> >Half the people on the planet are at or below the 50th percentile in >intelligence. ;-)
This reminds me of something my mathmatically minded daughter pointed out in the paper yesterday. It was a quote from someone high up in the CA state education bureaucracy who said "Our goal is to have **every student** in the state score above the 40th percentile in the STAR [CA state standardized tests] tests. Duh!
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– origin: alt.parenting.solutions: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->|<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> >|<html> >| >|<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Excellent! You know, my sister, who is a school >|teacher, >|<br>decided to raise her kids in the "modern" manner…allow >|<br>them "freedom of expression."</blockquote> >|Oh, I am totally for "freedom of expression" in young children. They express >|themselves through learning to read, creating art and music, learning to >|participate constructively in groups, learning empathy, working for the >|best grades they can get–a C average is fine if it is the kid’s personal >|best. >|<p>The other stuff is just a bunch of disrespectful, uncivilized, snotty >|brats who should have their mouths taped shut more often than not.</html> >| >|
Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil." BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World." ICQ 26776011 | — Bardic Motto If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all. —- Noam Chomsky
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Quadruple that! Walk by the light of the Moon Llyra ICQ #4128184
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>I think the clothing wasn’t the cause of their abherrant behaviour, but was >a symptom of it, that was ignored as fashion. Too bad they couldn’t be >helped. How many of their exact kind are in school today and will someone >approach them to offer help? I hope more of these incidents can be >avoided.
Unfortunately, here in California there have been several copy-cats. One school was closed down and evacuated after a bomb threat. Pipe bomb was found and exploded only to find out it was a fake made to look like the real thing. In another school, two kids were shooting nearby the school and the school was evacuated. They were shooting a pellet gun. "trench coat mafia" apologists are wearing black trench coats to school. People in general are stupid. I just heard on the news that people were registering the name "trench coat mafia" as domain name as the shooting was being covered by the news. I’d like to know why the human race can’t seem to learn from their screwups? Kendra *Proud to be Outlandish!* http://www.geocities.com/heartland/lane/6516 — Visit my pages of SnowGlobes! http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Lane/6516/snowglobes.htm
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Okay, I’m going to disagree a bit with this chorus of "Amens". > >> To me, the very first thing I want to know about is, where > >> the hell were these boys’ parents and what were they thinking? > They were probably at work and had no idea what was going on. I wonder if >they > had even met their kids’ friends. >Hey, my folks divorced when I was 13 and my mom worked too, OK? That >didn’t give her an excuse for having her head shoved up her ass about >what her son was up to.
So you told your mom everything and everywhere you went and everything you did when you were a teen? I was a good kid when I was growing up, but, believe me, I did not tell my parents everything! > For info on high school, we have > to rely (mostly) on what he tells us and what we can glean at >parent-teacher > conferences. >Not if you’re talking to other parents or, ahem, actually at the school >doing volunteer work once or twice a week…
No, I don’t do volunteer work at the high school. It’s actually discouraged by the school district, except for the PTSA. I do talk with some of the parents and compare notes with those I know, who I know from my volunteer activities in other organizations. However, there are 2300 students at the high school, which means there are about 800 kids in my son’s grade (he’s a freshman). He comes in contact with about 60 different kids on a daily basis during class time. There is no way I’m going to know all those kids and all those families, not like I did when he went to the same grammar school with basically the same 35 kids for 8 years. Heck, I know most of the parents in my youngest child’s Kindergarten class b/c we hang out and talk while we wait to pick up our children. That just doesn’t happen in high school. The high schools in our area don’t have "potlucks" or "getting to know you" dinners. They’re lucky if half the parents turn out for "Back to School Night." I went. And I understand that "Open House" is even worse… (Which is next week, and I plan on going.) > >> Teachers especialy know better than to call the parents > >> of a misbehaving kid. They know that if they do, the chances are better > >> than 90% that they will get one of three responses. Either it will be, > >> "You must be lying because my kid would never do anything like that", > >> or, "It must be your fault, what did you do to make my kid so > >> unhappy?", or, "Who the hell do you think you are judging my kid and > >> embarassing my kid? Don’t you ever do this again or I swear to God I’ll > >> sue the school and get you fired!" > A little extreme, don’t you think? >Not in the least. Teachers actually have things just like this said to >them all the time.
I believe that. It’s your 90% figure I question. > How many teachers call and no one is home? >Oh, great point. That completely invalidates everything I wrote.
Got me there. I can’t remember what I was thinking when I wrote that. <G> > …here in the > San Francisco Bay Area, public schools have to be very careful about what >kinds > of dress codes they implement. They almost need to have a reason for every > rule. >Funny, in my day, the rules were the rules. Period.
The rules have to have a justifiable reason. They cannot be arbitrary. Otherwise there is a problem with freedom of expression and First Amendment rights. These lawsuits happened during the ’70’s and early ’80’s. > Sure, I’d love to have a dress code like in the late-’60’s when I grew up >that > mandated boys wear shirts with collars, slacks, and hard-soled shoes. And > girls wore dresses, skirts, or "pantsuits" with nylons. But it isn’t going >to > happen. >Why the hell not? BTW, how many teenagers committed mass murder on >campus in the late ’60s?
Never heard of any in high school. Heard of a couple of at colleges and universities, though. But I don’t think outlawing black trenchcoats is going to keep kids from blowing away other kids. The problem is easy access to guns, and I’m not talking about .22’s or BB guns. I’m talking about sawed-off shotguns and automatic weapons. How did they get to be so common in society in 30 years? > In short, I pick my battles with my son. >This is so lame. This might be tha kind of attitude to have with your >manager or mother-in-law, but with your son, you’re the boss, that’s it, >end of discussion…
Not lame. Realistic. There are some issues worth fighting over, worth insisting on. Going to school. Doing homework. Going to church. Doing his chores. Which black t-shirts he may buy. I reserve the right to have final veto over his clothes. But I also recognize that he wants to "fit in" and that his taste and mine are not the same. I like Lands’ End. He doesn’t. That’s okay. He likes heavy metal. I don’t. That’s okay, too. I do make the effort to listen to his music and if it’s obscene or violent, it’s out. Same with video and computer games. > The problem is I bet no one told the parents what was going on. I had a > wonderful "spy" system when my son was in grammar school. Now that his >circle > of friends has widened, he’s hanging out with a different crowd and I don’t > have the same network. >And who’s fault is that? Why haven’t you told your son that you expect >to know the names of all the kids he hangs out with? How about just that >for starters?
Actually, he has told me many of them and I met several of them when we went to the school play. He also has to give us the phone number of where he’s going to be and with whom and he has a curfew. I’ve met several of them. I know all the boys in his Scout troop and I’m meeting most of the kids in his Sea Scout ship. But I don’t know all the names of all the kids in the Anime club at school. I don’t think he does, either. A lot of times he only knows their first names. But every once in awhile he’ll mention someone in a conversation or point them out on the street and I’ll ask, "Who’s that?" And then I’ll find out he eats lunch with them or was introduced by someone else or whatever. Ten kids from his grammar school are going to his high school, and none of them are in his classes. So I’m rebuilding my contacts, but it’s a lot more difficult and time-consuming at the high school level than at the grammar school level. > People blame violent movies. I also blame our "jock obsession." >I blame the boys and their parents.
Them, too. Believe me, I think there’s more than one cause of this. > there is–frankly–quite a few areas about his life > and his friends that I don’t know and can’t possibly. >This is a complete copout. It’s your business to know everything your >kid is into. If that means going into his bedroom and looking through >his stuff, or whatever it takes, it’s your obligation to do that, >because you’re responsible for your kid’s behavior. >– >’bonehead
So your mom regularly went through your stuff? You didn’t have a private diary? She knew exactly what you were thinking and doing at all times? I have no problem going into my son’s bedroom and going through his stuff, especially if I have a reason. But I cannot see into his head. I am not with him 24/7. He could even set up his own website on the Internet using the computers at the library, either at school or the public one, and I’d never be the wiser. (I am NOT going to suggest this to him–he’s going to have to figure out some things on his own. <G>) Fortunately, there are two of us adults, which makes the job of knowing what’s going on a little easier. However, the process of "letting go" does not happen magically at 18. I let go a little at a time and worry about whether I am doing too little or not enough. I try and keep the lines of communication open and watch my kid like a hawk and pray I haven’t missed the signs of something happening. I worry about whether his behavior is a phase or a sign of something seriously wrong. I worry about him more, and have more to worry about now, than I did when he was a baby and I was a new mom. If you’re not the parent of a teen, just wait… Denise …mom to Patrick (15), Erin (12), Sean (8), and Kiera (5)…
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writ: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >– origin: alt.parenting.solutions: >|clarity and wisdom, writ: >| >|(snip) >| >|>Like I said, a lot of teens go through similar things to varying >|>degrees – the real question is why these boys thought that extreme violence >|>was a way to deal with those feelings, and how it is that they had access to >|>automatic weapons, were able to make explosives etc. without their parents >|>being aware of what was going on. (Hey, maybe I live in a small house…but I >|>think I would notice if my sons had an arsenal and were making bombs in the >|>garage.) >| >|Yes, you would think that, but I read an article a few months ago about a >|fifteen year old boy who was an honor student, and really into physics and >|chemistry. Because he was so seemingly well-adjusted, his parents didn’t >|worry too much about what he was doing out in the garage. He built a >|nuclear reactor (!) and eventually there were (I can’t remember the >|government agency) staff walking around with Geiger counters and trying to >|clean up all the resulting radioactive waste. >Is there a cite for that story or is it an urban legend? >Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil." >BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World." >ICQ 26776011 | — Bardic Motto >If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for >people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all. > —- Noam Chomsky
Oh, it’s not urban legend. It was in Reader’s Digest a few months ago, but I don’t remember which month or the original source. I’ll see if I can’t look it up over the weekend. 
Kathleen "If sense were common, more people would have it." — Me ICQ# – 33613577 **Spam Trap** Accentuate the Positive to send e-mail.
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clarity and wisdom, writ: (snip) >Like I said, a lot of teens go through similar things to varying >degrees – the real question is why these boys thought that extreme violence >was a way to deal with those feelings, and how it is that they had access to >automatic weapons, were able to make explosives etc. without their parents >being aware of what was going on. (Hey, maybe I live in a small house…but I >think I would notice if my sons had an arsenal and were making bombs in the >garage.)
Yes, you would think that, but I read an article a few months ago about a fifteen year old boy who was an honor student, and really into physics and chemistry. Because he was so seemingly well-adjusted, his parents didn’t worry too much about what he was doing out in the garage. He built a nuclear reactor (!) and eventually there were (I can’t remember the government agency) staff walking around with Geiger counters and trying to clean up all the resulting radioactive waste. Unless we are with our kids 24/7, we *can’t* know what they are doing. We can only do our jobs as well as we can, and then hope for the best. Kathleen "If sense were common, more people would have it." — Me ICQ# – 33613577 **Spam Trap** Accentuate the Positive to send e-mail.
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:> Why did these parents allow their boys to go to school every day dressed :> all in black and acting like such misanthropes? How the hell did these :> kids get access to so much weaponry? How did they manage to gather all :> these bombs and firearms and make all these plans, right under their :> parent’s noses? I swear to God I would never have gotten anywhere near :> to getting away with that much when I was a kid. : :Okay, so you are trying to tell me that the reason these kids went over the :top and shot everyone…is because of what they were wearing?? So making them :wear something out of the Land’s End catalogue would have changed the angst :ridden people they clearly were, and transformed them into social adept, :healthy kids? Clearly, we are wasting a lot of money on shrinks. We just need :different clothing!! I think the clothing wasn’t the cause of their abherrant behaviour, but was a symptom of it, that was ignored as fashion. Too bad they couldn’t be helped. How many of their exact kind are in school today and will someone approach them to offer help? I hope more of these incidents can be avoided. Norma
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— origin: alt.parenting.solutions: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >|clarity and wisdom, writ: >| >|(snip) >| >|>Like I said, a lot of teens go through similar things to varying >|>degrees – the real question is why these boys thought that extreme violence >|>was a way to deal with those feelings, and how it is that they had access to >|>automatic weapons, were able to make explosives etc. without their parents >|>being aware of what was going on. (Hey, maybe I live in a small house…but I >|>think I would notice if my sons had an arsenal and were making bombs in the >|>garage.) >| >|Yes, you would think that, but I read an article a few months ago about a >|fifteen year old boy who was an honor student, and really into physics and >|chemistry. Because he was so seemingly well-adjusted, his parents didn’t >|worry too much about what he was doing out in the garage. He built a >|nuclear reactor (!) and eventually there were (I can’t remember the >|government agency) staff walking around with Geiger counters and trying to >|clean up all the resulting radioactive waste.
Is there a cite for that story or is it an urban legend? Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil." BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World." ICQ 26776011 | — Bardic Motto If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all. —- Noam Chomsky
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> Okay, I’m going to disagree a bit with this chorus of "Amens". >> To me, the very first thing I want to know about is, where >> the hell were these boys’ parents and what were they thinking? > They were probably at work and had no idea what was going on. I wonder if they > had even met their kids’ friends.
Hey, my folks divorced when I was 13 and my mom worked too, OK? That didn’t give her an excuse for having her head shoved up her ass about what her son was up to. > For info on high school, we have > to rely (mostly) on what he tells us and what we can glean at parent-teacher > conferences.
Not if you’re talking to other parents or, ahem, actually at the school doing volunteer work once or twice a week… >> Teachers especialy know better than to call the parents >> of a misbehaving kid. They know that if they do, the chances are better >> than 90% that they will get one of three responses. Either it will be, >> "You must be lying because my kid would never do anything like that", >> or, "It must be your fault, what did you do to make my kid so >> unhappy?", or, "Who the hell do you think you are judging my kid and >> embarassing my kid? Don’t you ever do this again or I swear to God I’ll >> sue the school and get you fired!" > A little extreme, don’t you think?
Not in the least. Teachers actually have things just like this said to them all the time. > How many teachers call and no one is home?
Oh, great point. That completely invalidates everything I wrote. > …here in the > San Francisco Bay Area, public schools have to be very careful about what kinds > of dress codes they implement. They almost need to have a reason for every > rule.
Funny, in my day, the rules were the rules. Period. > Sure, I’d love to have a dress code like in the late-’60’s when I grew up that > mandated boys wear shirts with collars, slacks, and hard-soled shoes. And > girls wore dresses, skirts, or "pantsuits" with nylons. But it isn’t going to > happen.
Why the hell not? BTW, how many teenagers committed mass murder on campus in the late ’60s? > In short, I pick my battles with my son.
This is so lame. This might be tha kind of attitude to have with your manager or mother-in-law, but with your son, you’re the boss, that’s it, end of discussion… > The problem is I bet no one told the parents what was going on. I had a > wonderful "spy" system when my son was in grammar school. Now that his circle > of friends has widened, he’s hanging out with a different crowd and I don’t > have the same network.
And who’s fault is that? Why haven’t you told your son that you expect to know the names of all the kids he hangs out with? How about just that for starters? > People blame violent movies. I also blame our "jock obsession."
I blame the boys and their parents. > there is–frankly–quite a few areas about his life > and his friends that I don’t know and can’t possibly.
This is a complete copout. It’s your business to know everything your kid is into. If that means going into his bedroom and looking through his stuff, or whatever it takes, it’s your obligation to do that, because you’re responsible for your kid’s behavior. — ‘bonehead |"If a man’s alone in the woods, and he says something, | | and there’s no woman around to criticize him, is he | | still wrong?" | | Fred Pickles, 1997 |
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> Why did these parents allow their boys to go to school every day dressed > all in black and acting like such misanthropes? How the hell did these > kids get access to so much weaponry? How did they manage to gather all > these bombs and firearms and make all these plans, right under their > parent’s noses? I swear to God I would never have gotten anywhere near > to getting away with that much when I was a kid.
Okay, so you are trying to tell me that the reason these kids went over the top and shot everyone…is because of what they were wearing?? So making them wear something out of the Land’s End catalogue would have changed the angst ridden people they clearly were, and transformed them into social adept, healthy kids? Clearly, we are wasting a lot of money on shrinks. We just need different clothing!! I do agree that parents have a responsibility to watch for signs of disturbance in their children – but many, many of us go through difficulties as teens because we are a little different. Lets see… when I was a teen , I was tall, flat-chested, skinny, brainy, wore glasses and braces, my mother died, my father had problems raising us, I had bad skin, got teased a lot and was not too socially adept. I resented the kids who teased me, the kids who had more money, the kids who were more socially and physically adept, even as I wanted desperately to be more like them. So I don’t exactly look back on the period with joy, and struggled with a lot of unhappiness during those years. Like I said, a lot of teens go through similar things to varying degrees – the real question is why these boys thought that extreme violence was a way to deal with those feelings, and how it is that they had access to automatic weapons, were able to make explosives etc. without their parents being aware of what was going on. (Hey, maybe I live in a small house…but I think I would notice if my sons had an arsenal and were making bombs in the garage.) Mary G.
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Okay, I’m going to disagree a bit with this chorus of "Amens". writes: > Okay, here goes, > We seem to have reached a kind of consensus over the last 30 years or so > that we’re always supposed to give parents the benefit of the doubt no > matter what. To me, the very first thing I want to know about is, where > the hell were these boys’ parents and what were they thinking?
They were probably at work and had no idea what was going on. I wonder if they had even met their kids’ friends. I work part-time, about 2 blocks from my house. I knew all my son’s friends in grammar school. I am slowly meeting some of his friends from high school. With the exception of my goddaughter, who goes to the same school and hangs out with the same crowd, I know virtually none of the parents of his friends. I have spoken with a couple of them over the phone. Our local high school does not do "potlucks" or other gatherings and there are 2300 students in four grades. And my DH and I really care about our son. He’s still in Scouts and we are active in that area of his life. But for info on high school, we have to rely (mostly) on what he tells us and what we can glean at parent-teacher conferences. > When I was a kid, if I misbehaved somewhere in my neighborhood, before I > got home, some adult in that area would have called my mother and told > her what I had done, and by the time I got home, my mother would have > just been all over me with, "What were you thinking behaving that way, > what do you suppose people are going to think of us as parents?". And > then I would have spent the rest of the day dreading the disapproval of > my father when he got home. And when I was punished, it would have been > made clear to everyone in the neighborhood that I was getting > reprimanded for my behavior and wouldn’t be doing that again anytime in > the near future.
Ditto. "What will the neighbors think?" and "You have to set a good example for your younger brothers and sisters" were my mom’s stock lines. I’ve used them myself. But how many of us know our neighbors? How many of our neighbors care? I’m lucky b/c we’ve lived in the same neighborhood for almost 13 years and it’s a very stable one. We’ve made some good friends. But how many can truly say that? If you don’t know your neighbors, who cares what their opinion is? > Today, nobody does that because they’re afraid they’ll get threatened or > sued or worse. Teachers especialy know better than to call the parents > of a misbehaving kid. They know that if they do, the chances are better > than 90% that they will get one of three responses. Either it will be, > "You must be lying because my kid would never do anything like that", > or, "It must be your fault, what did you do to make my kid so > unhappy?", or, "Who the hell do you think you are judging my kid and > embarassing my kid? Don’t you ever do this again or I swear to God I’ll > sue the school and get you fired!"
A little extreme, don’t you think? How many teachers call and no one is home? Go to "Back to School" Night at your local high school and see how many parents bother to show up. High School PTA meetings are worse, at least in my area. OTOH, the majority of parents supported the School District’s decision to make the high school closed-campus. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Why did these parents allow their boys to go to school every day dressed > all in black and acting like such misanthropes? How the hell did these > kids get access to so much weaponry? How did they manage to gather all > these bombs and firearms and make all these plans, right under their > parent’s noses? I swear to God I would never have gotten anywhere near > to getting away with that much when I was a kid. > When I was a kid (which wasn’t that long ago), my mom would have taken > one look at me and said, "What the hell do you think you’re doing going > to school dressed all in black like that, NO, you’re not going to school > looking like that, I won’t have people thinking we’re the kind of > parents that would allow our kid to dress like that, and if that’s the > way all the boys you hang around with are dressing, well, guess what, > you’re not hanging around with those boys any more, and another thing > young man, you need to straighten up your attitude, and here’s a whole > weeks’ worth of house and yard and garage chores to help you do just > that…" > Today, the principles that my parents raised me with have been > completely turned backwards and upside down. Today, you have parents > suing a school for sending their 14-year-old daughter home for wearing > purple hair and black lipstick and a dog collar, because sending the kid > home made her feel bad.
Hey, I resemble that remark! <g> Seriously, my son’s favorite color is black. Standard attire is a black t-shirt with baggy blue jeans. I reserve the right to "pre-approve" the designs on his t-shirts and the size of his jeans. And here in the San Francisco Bay Area, public schools have to be very careful about what kinds of dress codes they implement. They almost need to have a reason for every rule. Sure, I’d love to have a dress code like in the late-’60’s when I grew up that mandated boys wear shirts with collars, slacks, and hard-soled shoes. And girls wore dresses, skirts, or "pantsuits" with nylons. But it isn’t going to happen. Even while protesting "uniforms," teens have always worn the same clothes as other teens in their peer groups, and if the "uniform" bothers the adults, so much the better. I can remember suede jackets with long fringes (and then you added beads to the fringe), bells, patches on our jeans, white lipstick, long hair on boys, long bangs on girls, etc., etc. In short, I pick my battles with my son. If he feels comfortable wearing black, then that’s okay, as long as the t-shirts are not offensive to us, his parents. As to his friends, this is the age when you can try and supervise your kids, but frankly, as a parent you are limited. I was one of the good kids, and when I told my parents some of the stuff I’d done in high school, they were amazed. And I had done it with other good kids! > To sum up, when I was a kid, if I got out of line or some other kid got > out of line, the very first thing everyone wanted to know about was what > was going on with that kid’s parents and that kids home life? Today, > those seem to be the very last questions anyone wants to ask. Today, it > seems that we’re always supposed to give the parents the benefit of the > doubt no matter what their kids do. Today, too many parents want to be > their kids buddies, and are more concerned with making sure their kids > feel good and are happy than they are with anything else. Maybe if more > people asked more questions about parents whose kids are out of line, > things wouldn’t be this bad today. > — > ‘bonehead
The problem is I bet no one told the parents what was going on. I had a wonderful "spy" system when my son was in grammar school. Now that his circle of friends has widened, he’s hanging out with a different crowd and I don’t have the same network. I would hope that I would notice if my son were stockpiling assault rifles and explosives. And I would hope that I would notice changes in his behavior that signaled trouble. We talk–in fact, we’ve talked about the shooting, and Patrick has said that he understands how the teens would feel like blowing away everyone who made fun of them. He feels like an outcast himself. But he "knows better" than that. I can tell you that his comments made me sit up and think. How can I help my son find his niche? How can I tell him it’s okay to be different? People blame violent movies. I also blame our "jock obsession." Jocks were always special people in school when I was growing up, but I don’t remember thinking I was worthless b/c I wasn’t a jock. There was always other areas to excel. Now, even in the younger grades, if you’re not a jock, you’re nobody. And I blame pro sports, and the attention star athletes get in the media, for some of that. Jocks grow up thinking they’re special people and have the right to verbally abuse kids who are less coordinated than they. So I wasn’t surprised that jocks were among the targets. Now, having said all that… I was horrified. I do not condone the boys’ actions in any way. DH and I have made our feelings known to our children and will continue to emphasize that there are always jerks in the world, but violence makes the situation worse. I do not know the home situation of these boys, so I cannot answer for the parents’ involvement or lack thereof. I do know that as a concerned parent who makes an active effort to monitor her son’s behavior and whereabouts, there is–frankly–quite a few areas about his life and his friends that I don’t know and can’t possibly. And those areas will increase until he moves out on his own and I will be completely dependent for him concerning information about his life. (Hopefully, when he’s about 30 or 40, married, and I’ll have to ask his wife. <G>) Denise …mom to Patrick (15), Erin (12), Sean (8), and Kiera (5)… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> |"If a man’s alone in the woods, and he says something, | > | and there’s no woman around to criticize him, is he | > | still wrong?" | > | Fred Pickles, 1997 |
Response:
Excellent! You know, my sister, who is a school teacher, decided to raise her kids in the "modern" manner…allow them "freedom of expression." They are now 3 and 5 and they are the most spoiled, undisciplined children I know. You’d expect more from an elementary school teacher, wouldn’t you. I, on the other hand, have a tendency to be intolerant of bad behavior, lack of respect for grownups and back talk. Being a hard line parent is rarely fun…but I’m expecting better results than what I think my sister will get. P.S. You and I must have shared the same parents! :-) Kandle – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Okay, here goes, >We seem to have reached a kind of consensus over the last 30 years or so >that we’re always supposed to give parents the benefit of the doubt no >matter what. To me, the very first thing I want to know about is, where >the hell were these boys’ parents and what were they thinking? >When I was a kid, if I misbehaved somewhere in my neighborhood, before I >got home, some adult in that area would have called my mother and told >her what I had done, and by the time I got home, my mother would have >just been all over me with, "What were you thinking behaving that way, >what do you suppose people are going to think of us as parents?". And >then I would have spent the rest of the day dreading the disapproval of >my father when he got home. And when I was punished, it would have been >made clear to everyone in the neighborhood that I was getting >reprimanded for my behavior and wouldn’t be doing that again anytime in >the near future. >Today, nobody does that because they’re afraid they’ll get threatened or >sued or worse. Teachers especialy know better than to call the parents >of a misbehaving kid. They know that if they do, the chances are better >than 90% that they will get one of three responses. Either it will be, >"You must be lying because my kid would never do anything like that", >or, "It must be your fault, what did you do to make my kid so >unhappy?", or, "Who the hell do you think you are judging my kid and >embarassing my kid? Don’t you ever do this again or I swear to God I’ll >sue the school and get you fired!" >Why did these parents allow their boys to go to school every day dressed >all in black and acting like such misanthropes? How the hell did these >kids get access to so much weaponry? How did they manage to gather all >these bombs and firearms and make all these plans, right under their >parent’s noses? I swear to God I would never have gotten anywhere near >to getting away with that much when I was a kid. >When I was a kid (which wasn’t that long ago), my mom would have taken >one look at me and said, "What the hell do you think you’re doing going >to school dressed all in black like that, NO, you’re not going to school >looking like that, I won’t have people thinking we’re the kind of >parents that would allow our kid to dress like that, and if that’s the >way all the boys you hang around with are dressing, well, guess what, >you’re not hanging around with those boys any more, and another thing >young man, you need to straighten up your attitude, and here’s a whole >weeks’ worth of house and yard and garage chores to help you do just >that…" >Today, the principles that my parents raised me with have been >completely turned backwards and upside down. Today, you have parents >suing a school for sending their 14-year-old daughter home for wearing >purple hair and black lipstick and a dog collar, because sending the kid >home made her feel bad. >To sum up, when I was a kid, if I got out of line or some other kid got >out of line, the very first thing everyone wanted to know about was what >was going on with that kid’s parents and that kids home life? Today, >those seem to be the very last questions anyone wants to ask. Today, it >seems that we’re always supposed to give the parents the benefit of the >doubt no matter what their kids do. Today, too many parents want to be >their kids buddies, and are more concerned with making sure their kids >feel good and are happy than they are with anything else. Maybe if more >people asked more questions about parents whose kids are out of line, >things wouldn’t be this bad today. >– >’bonehead >|"If a man’s alone in the woods, and he says something, | >| and there’s no woman around to criticize him, is he | >| still wrong?" | >| Fred Pickles, 1997 |
Response:
>Nicely put!!! So your parents had those neighborhood spies too. : ) >Took me until I had children of my own to discover just how this >underworld parenting network worked back then. Thankfully, it’s >still in effect here. Until I got that first call, was beginning to >think my mother had special powers that could enable her to see >everywhere I was not suppose to be, yet was.
When I was in high school, I couldn’t get away with anything! I couldn’t for the life of me figure out how my dad always found out! Later, when I became a bonafide adult, he admited that he was good friends with the football coach, who of course heard everything, and that was his spy! Kandle – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Rebecca >Okay, here goes, >We seem to have reached a kind of consensus over the last 30 years or so >that we’re always supposed to give parents the benefit of the doubt no >matter what. To me, the very first thing I want to know about is, where >the hell were these boys’ parents and what were they thinking? >When I was a kid, if I misbehaved somewhere in my neighborhood, before I >got home, some adult in that area would have called my mother and told >her what I had done, and by the time I got home, my mother would have >just been all over me with, "What were you thinking behaving that way, >what do you suppose people are going to think of us as parents?". And >then I would have spent the rest of the day dreading the disapproval of >my father when he got home. And when I was punished, it would have been >made clear to everyone in the neighborhood that I was getting >reprimanded for my behavior and wouldn’t be doing that again anytime in >the near future. >Today, nobody does that because they’re afraid they’ll get threatened or >sued or worse. Teachers especialy know better than to call the parents >of a misbehaving kid. They know that if they do, the chances are better >than 90% that they will get one of three responses. Either it will be, >"You must be lying because my kid would never do anything like that", >or, "It must be your fault, what did you do to make my kid so >unhappy?", or, "Who the hell do you think you are judging my kid and >embarassing my kid? Don’t you ever do this again or I swear to God I’ll >sue the school and get you fired!" >Why did these parents allow their boys to go to school every day dressed >all in black and acting like such misanthropes? How the hell did these >kids get access to so much weaponry? How did they manage to gather all >these bombs and firearms and make all these plans, right under their >parent’s noses? I swear to God I would never have gotten anywhere near >to getting away with that much when I was a kid. >When I was a kid (which wasn’t that long ago), my mom would have taken >one look at me and said, "What the hell do you think you’re doing going >to school dressed all in black like that, NO, you’re not going to school >looking like that, I won’t have people thinking we’re the kind of >parents that would allow our kid to dress like that, and if that’s the >way all the boys you hang around with are dressing, well, guess what, >you’re not hanging around with those boys any more, and another thing >young man, you need to straighten up your attitude, and here’s a whole >weeks’ worth of house and yard and garage chores to help you do just >that…" >Today, the principles that my parents raised me with have been >completely turned backwards and upside down. Today, you have parents >suing a school for sending their 14-year-old daughter home for wearing >purple hair and black lipstick and a dog collar, because sending the kid >home made her feel bad. >To sum up, when I was a kid, if I got out of line or some other kid got >out of line, the very first thing everyone wanted to know about was what >was going on with that kid’s parents and that kids home life? Today, >those seem to be the very last questions anyone wants to ask. Today, it >seems that we’re always supposed to give the parents the benefit of the >doubt no matter what their kids do. Today, too many parents want to be >their kids buddies, and are more concerned with making sure their kids >feel good and are happy than they are with anything else. Maybe if more >people asked more questions about parents whose kids are out of line, >things wouldn’t be this bad today. >– >’bonehead >|"If a man’s alone in the woods, and he says something, | >| and there’s no woman around to criticize him, is he | >| still wrong?" | >| Fred Pickles, 1997 |
Response:
Hope you don’t mind my commentary! To me, the very first thing I want to know about is, where >the hell were these boys’ parents and what were they thinking?
I totally agree. It’s our job as parents to be aware of our children, not to beware of our children. >When I was a kid, if I misbehaved somewhere in my neighborhood, before I >got home, some adult in that area would have called my mother and told >her what I had done, and by the time I got home, my mother would have >just been all over me with, "What were you thinking behaving that way, >what do you suppose people are going to think of us as parents?". And >then I would have spent the rest of the day dreading the disapproval of >my father when he got home.
Me too, my Mother would have grounded me forever (which she often did!), but I would have quickly learned my lesson! >Today, nobody does that because they’re afraid they’ll get threatened or >sued or worse. Teachers especialy know better than to call the parents >of a misbehaving kid. They know that if they do, the chances are better >than 90% that they will get one of three responses. Either it will be, >"You must be lying because my kid would never do anything like that", >or, "It must be your fault, what did you do to make my kid so >unhappy?", or, "Who the hell do you think you are judging my kid and >embarassing my kid? Don’t you ever do this again or I swear to God I’ll >sue the school and get you fired!"
My DH is a teacher, and recently, a student stabbed another in his class with a pencil. He told the student to write a letter of apology to the injured student (while he was on suspension, of course), only to get the letter back with threats to the injured student!! My DH also asked this kid what he (the student) could do to prevent outbursts like that, and he said "Maybe I’ll just kill myself, or come to school and kill everyone". Nice. Anyway, this morning, DH had a meeting with various board members, the kid and his parents. As it turns out, the parents "had no idea what was going on, he must be getting this from school." Yeah, ok, the infamous "not in my backyard" cop-out. >Why did these parents allow their boys to go to school every day dressed >all in black and acting like such misanthropes?
Eeeek!! I disagree here, though. In high school (80’s), I too, always dressed in black, and walked around like it was the end of the world. However, I never even had thoughts about killing others or myself. You really can’t judge a book by its cover! Now as an adult/parent, I look back on those days and have no regrets on how I dressed/acted. I’m a well adjusted person, and I hold a very good job. (BTW, I also listen to Marilyn Manson, but at least I know the difference between reality and a good showman.) How did they manage to gather all >these bombs and firearms and make all these plans, right under their >parent’s noses? I swear to God I would never have gotten anywhere near >to getting away with that much when I was a kid.
I hear you!! >When I was a kid (which wasn’t that long ago), my mom would have taken >one look at me and said, "What the hell do you think you’re doing going >to school dressed all in black like that, NO, you’re not going to school >looking like that, I won’t have people thinking we’re the kind of >parents that would allow our kid to dress like that, and if that’s the >way all the boys you hang around with are dressing, well, guess what, >you’re not hanging around with those boys any more, and another thing >young man, you need to straighten up your attitude, and here’s a whole >weeks’ worth of house and yard and garage chores to help you do just >that…"
Same as above, although my parents didn’t really tell me who I could and couldn’t hang around with. Except for this one guy….. but anyway!LOL >To sum up, when I was a kid, if I got out of line or some other kid got >out of line, the very first thing everyone wanted to know about was what >was going on with that kid’s parents and that kids home life? Today, >those seem to be the very last questions anyone wants to ask. Today, it >seems that we’re always supposed to give the parents the benefit of the >doubt no matter what their kids do. Today, too many parents want to be >their kids buddies, and are more concerned with making sure their kids >feel good and are happy than they are with anything else. Maybe if more >people asked more questions about parents whose kids are out of line, >things wouldn’t be this bad today.
Well said!!! Lori
Response:
— Paige GO LEAFS!!! proud to be Outlandish "when the guy who invented the drawing board got it wrong, what did he go back to?" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > : > :> > :> Okay, here goes, > :> > :> We seem to have reached a kind of consensus over the last 30 years or so > :> that we’re always supposed to give parents the benefit of the doubt no > :> matter what. To me, the very first thing I want to know about is, where > :> the hell were these boys’ parents and what were they thinking? > :> > :> When I was a kid, if I misbehaved somewhere in my neighborhood, before I > :> got home, some adult in that area would have called my mother and told > :> her what I had done, and by the time I got home, my mother would have > :> just been all over me with, "What were you thinking behaving that way, > :> what do you suppose people are going to think of us as parents?". And > :> then I would have spent the rest of the day dreading the disapproval of > :> my father when he got home. And when I was punished, it would have been > :> made clear to everyone in the neighborhood that I was getting > :> reprimanded for my behavior and wouldn’t be doing that again anytime in > :> the near future. > :> > :> Today, nobody does that because they’re afraid they’ll get threatened or > :> sued or worse. Teachers especialy know better than to call the parents > :> of a misbehaving kid. They know that if they do, the chances are better > :> than 90% that they will get one of three responses. Either it will be, > :> "You must be lying because my kid would never do anything like that", > :> or, "It must be your fault, what did you do to make my kid so > :> unhappy?", or, "Who the hell do you think you are judging my kid and > :> embarassing my kid? Don’t you ever do this again or I swear to God I’ll > :> sue the school and get you fired!" > :> > :> Why did these parents allow their boys to go to school every day dressed > :> all in black and acting like such misanthropes? How the hell did these > :> kids get access to so much weaponry? How did they manage to gather all > :> these bombs and firearms and make all these plans, right under their > :> parent’s noses? I swear to God I would never have gotten anywhere near > :> to getting away with that much when I was a kid. > :> > :> When I was a kid (which wasn’t that long ago), my mom would have taken > :> one look at me and said, "What the hell do you think you’re doing going > :> to school dressed all in black like that, NO, you’re not going to school > :> looking like that, I won’t have people thinking we’re the kind of > :> parents that would allow our kid to dress like that, and if that’s the > :> way all the boys you hang around with are dressing, well, guess what, > :> you’re not hanging around with those boys any more, and another thing > :> young man, you need to straighten up your attitude, and here’s a whole > :> weeks’ worth of house and yard and garage chores to help you do just > :> that…" > :> > :> Today, the principles that my parents raised me with have been > :> completely turned backwards and upside down. Today, you have parents > :> suing a school for sending their 14-year-old daughter home for wearing > :> purple hair and black lipstick and a dog collar, because sending the kid > :> home made her feel bad. > :> > :> To sum up, when I was a kid, if I got out of line or some other kid got > :> out of line, the very first thing everyone wanted to know about was what > :> was going on with that kid’s parents and that kids home life? Today, > :> those seem to be the very last questions anyone wants to ask. Today, it > :> seems that we’re always supposed to give the parents the benefit of the > :> doubt no matter what their kids do. Today, too many parents want to be > :> their kids buddies, and are more concerned with making sure their kids > :> feel good and are happy than they are with anything else. Maybe if more > :> people asked more questions about parents whose kids are out of line, > :> things wouldn’t be this bad today. > :> — > :> ‘bonehead > :> |"If a man’s alone in the woods, and he says something, | > :> | and there’s no woman around to criticize him, is he | > :> | still wrong?" | > :> | Fred Pickles, 1997 |
Response:
Nicely put!!! So your parents had those neighborhood spies too. : ) Took me until I had children of my own to discover just how this underworld parenting network worked back then. Thankfully, it’s still in effect here. Until I got that first call, was beginning to think my mother had special powers that could enable her to see everywhere I was not suppose to be, yet was. Rebecca – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Okay, here goes, >We seem to have reached a kind of consensus over the last 30 years or so >that we’re always supposed to give parents the benefit of the doubt no >matter what. To me, the very first thing I want to know about is, where >the hell were these boys’ parents and what were they thinking? >When I was a kid, if I misbehaved somewhere in my neighborhood, before I >got home, some adult in that area would have called my mother and told >her what I had done, and by the time I got home, my mother would have >just been all over me with, "What were you thinking behaving that way, >what do you suppose people are going to think of us as parents?". And >then I would have spent the rest of the day dreading the disapproval of >my father when he got home. And when I was punished, it would have been >made clear to everyone in the neighborhood that I was getting >reprimanded for my behavior and wouldn’t be doing that again anytime in >the near future. >Today, nobody does that because they’re afraid they’ll get threatened or >sued or worse. Teachers especialy know better than to call the parents >of a misbehaving kid. They know that if they do, the chances are better >than 90% that they will get one of three responses. Either it will be, >"You must be lying because my kid would never do anything like that", >or, "It must be your fault, what did you do to make my kid so >unhappy?", or, "Who the hell do you think you are judging my kid and >embarassing my kid? Don’t you ever do this again or I swear to God I’ll >sue the school and get you fired!" >Why did these parents allow their boys to go to school every day dressed >all in black and acting like such misanthropes? How the hell did these >kids get access to so much weaponry? How did they manage to gather all >these bombs and firearms and make all these plans, right under their >parent’s noses? I swear to God I would never have gotten anywhere near >to getting away with that much when I was a kid. >When I was a kid (which wasn’t that long ago), my mom would have taken >one look at me and said, "What the hell do you think you’re doing going >to school dressed all in black like that, NO, you’re not going to school >looking like that, I won’t have people thinking we’re the kind of >parents that would allow our kid to dress like that, and if that’s the >way all the boys you hang around with are dressing, well, guess what, >you’re not hanging around with those boys any more, and another thing >young man, you need to straighten up your attitude, and here’s a whole >weeks’ worth of house and yard and garage chores to help you do just >that…" >Today, the principles that my parents raised me with have been >completely turned backwards and upside down. Today, you have parents >suing a school for sending their 14-year-old daughter home for wearing >purple hair and black lipstick and a dog collar, because sending the kid >home made her feel bad. >To sum up, when I was a kid, if I got out of line or some other kid got >out of line, the very first thing everyone wanted to know about was what >was going on with that kid’s parents and that kids home life? Today, >those seem to be the very last questions anyone wants to ask. Today, it >seems that we’re always supposed to give the parents the benefit of the >doubt no matter what their kids do. Today, too many parents want to be >their kids buddies, and are more concerned with making sure their kids >feel good and are happy than they are with anything else. Maybe if more >people asked more questions about parents whose kids are out of line, >things wouldn’t be this bad today. >– >’bonehead >|"If a man’s alone in the woods, and he says something, | >| and there’s no woman around to criticize him, is he | >| still wrong?" | >| Fred Pickles, 1997 |
Response:
You said that perfectly! At least that is the way every other kid in my neighborhood was treated. My mother was more worried about me making her look bad than dealing with the whatever it was that I did. Georga – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Okay, here goes, > We seem to have reached a kind of consensus over the last 30 years or so > that we’re always supposed to give parents the benefit of the doubt no > matter what. To me, the very first thing I want to know about is, where > the hell were these boys’ parents and what were they thinking? > When I was a kid, if I misbehaved somewhere in my neighborhood, before I > got home, some adult in that area would have called my mother and told > her what I had done, and by the time I got home, my mother would have > just been all over me with, "What were you thinking behaving that way, > what do you suppose people are going to think of us as parents?". And > then I would have spent the rest of the day dreading the disapproval of > my father when he got home. And when I was punished, it would have been > made clear to everyone in the neighborhood that I was getting > reprimanded for my behavior and wouldn’t be doing that again anytime in > the near future. > Today, nobody does that because they’re afraid they’ll get threatened or > sued or worse. Teachers especialy know better than to call the parents > of a misbehaving kid. They know that if they do, the chances are better > than 90% that they will get one of three responses. Either it will be, > "You must be lying because my kid would never do anything like that", > or, "It must be your fault, what did you do to make my kid so > unhappy?", or, "Who the hell do you think you are judging my kid and > embarassing my kid? Don’t you ever do this again or I swear to God I’ll > sue the school and get you fired!" > Why did these parents allow their boys to go to school every day dressed > all in black and acting like such misanthropes? How the hell did these > kids get access to so much weaponry? How did they manage to gather all > these bombs and firearms and make all these plans, right under their > parent’s noses? I swear to God I would never have gotten anywhere near > to getting away with that much when I was a kid. > When I was a kid (which wasn’t that long ago), my mom would have taken > one look at me and said, "What the hell do you think you’re doing going > to school dressed all in black like that, NO, you’re not going to school > looking like that, I won’t have people thinking we’re the kind of > parents that would allow our kid to dress like that, and if that’s the > way all the boys you hang around with are dressing, well, guess what, > you’re not hanging around with those boys any more, and another thing > young man, you need to straighten up your attitude, and here’s a whole > weeks’ worth of house and yard and garage chores to help you do just > that…" > Today, the principles that my parents raised me with have been > completely turned backwards and upside down. Today, you have parents > suing a school for sending their 14-year-old daughter home for wearing > purple hair and black lipstick and a dog collar, because sending the kid > home made her feel bad. > To sum up, when I was a kid, if I got out of line or some other kid got > out of line, the very first thing everyone wanted to know about was what > was going on with that kid’s parents and that kids home life? Today, > those seem to be the very last questions anyone wants to ask. Today, it > seems that we’re always supposed to give the parents the benefit of the > doubt no matter what their kids do. Today, too many parents want to be > their kids buddies, and are more concerned with making sure their kids > feel good and are happy than they are with anything else. Maybe if more > people asked more questions about parents whose kids are out of line, > things wouldn’t be this bad today. > — > ‘bonehead > |"If a man’s alone in the woods, and he says something, | > | and there’s no woman around to criticize him, is he | > | still wrong?" | > | Fred Pickles, 1997 |
Response:
:
:> :> Okay, here goes, :> :> We seem to have reached a kind of consensus over the last 30 years or so :> that we’re always supposed to give parents the benefit of the doubt no :> matter what. To me, the very first thing I want to know about is, where :> the hell were these boys’ parents and what were they thinking? :> :> When I was a kid, if I misbehaved somewhere in my neighborhood, before I :> got home, some adult in that area would have called my mother and told :> her what I had done, and by the time I got home, my mother would have :> just been all over me with, "What were you thinking behaving that way, :> what do you suppose people are going to think of us as parents?". And :> then I would have spent the rest of the day dreading the disapproval of :> my father when he got home. And when I was punished, it would have been :> made clear to everyone in the neighborhood that I was getting :> reprimanded for my behavior and wouldn’t be doing that again anytime in :> the near future. :> :> Today, nobody does that because they’re afraid they’ll get threatened or :> sued or worse. Teachers especialy know better than to call the parents :> of a misbehaving kid. They know that if they do, the chances are better :> than 90% that they will get one of three responses. Either it will be, :> "You must be lying because my kid would never do anything like that", :> or, "It must be your fault, what did you do to make my kid so :> unhappy?", or, "Who the hell do you think you are judging my kid and :> embarassing my kid? Don’t you ever do this again or I swear to God I’ll :> sue the school and get you fired!" :> :> Why did these parents allow their boys to go to school every day dressed :> all in black and acting like such misanthropes? How the hell did these :> kids get access to so much weaponry? How did they manage to gather all :> these bombs and firearms and make all these plans, right under their :> parent’s noses? I swear to God I would never have gotten anywhere near :> to getting away with that much when I was a kid. :> :> When I was a kid (which wasn’t that long ago), my mom would have taken :> one look at me and said, "What the hell do you think you’re doing going :> to school dressed all in black like that, NO, you’re not going to school :> looking like that, I won’t have people thinking we’re the kind of :> parents that would allow our kid to dress like that, and if that’s the :> way all the boys you hang around with are dressing, well, guess what, :> you’re not hanging around with those boys any more, and another thing :> young man, you need to straighten up your attitude, and here’s a whole :> weeks’ worth of house and yard and garage chores to help you do just :> that…" :> :> Today, the principles that my parents raised me with have been :> completely turned backwards and upside down. Today, you have parents :> suing a school for sending their 14-year-old daughter home for wearing :> purple hair and black lipstick and a dog collar, because sending the kid :> home made her feel bad. :> :> To sum up, when I was a kid, if I got out of line or some other kid got :> out of line, the very first thing everyone wanted to know about was what :> was going on with that kid’s parents and that kids home life? Today, :> those seem to be the very last questions anyone wants to ask. Today, it :> seems that we’re always supposed to give the parents the benefit of the :> doubt no matter what their kids do. Today, too many parents want to be :> their kids buddies, and are more concerned with making sure their kids :> feel good and are happy than they are with anything else. Maybe if more :> people asked more questions about parents whose kids are out of line, :> things wouldn’t be this bad today. :> — :> ‘bonehead :> |"If a man’s alone in the woods, and he says something, | :> | and there’s no woman around to criticize him, is he | :> | still wrong?" | :> | Fred Pickles, 1997 |
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Okay, here goes, > We seem to have reached a kind of consensus over the last 30 years or so > that we’re always supposed to give parents the benefit of the doubt no > matter what. To me, the very first thing I want to know about is, where > the hell were these boys’ parents and what were they thinking? > When I was a kid, if I misbehaved somewhere in my neighborhood, before I > got home, some adult in that area would have called my mother and told > her what I had done, and by the time I got home, my mother would have > just been all over me with, "What were you thinking behaving that way, > what do you suppose people are going to think of us as parents?". And > then I would have spent the rest of the day dreading the disapproval of > my father when he got home. And when I was punished, it would have been > made clear to everyone in the neighborhood that I was getting > reprimanded for my behavior and wouldn’t be doing that again anytime in > the near future. > Today, nobody does that because they’re afraid they’ll get threatened or > sued or worse. Teachers especialy know better than to call the parents > of a misbehaving kid. They know that if they do, the chances are better > than 90% that they will get one of three responses. Either it will be, > "You must be lying because my kid would never do anything like that", > or, "It must be your fault, what did you do to make my kid so > unhappy?", or, "Who the hell do you think you are judging my kid and > embarassing my kid? Don’t you ever do this again or I swear to God I’ll > sue the school and get you fired!" > Why did these parents allow their boys to go to school every day dressed > all in black and acting like such misanthropes? How the hell did these > kids get access to so much weaponry? How did they manage to gather all > these bombs and firearms and make all these plans, right under their > parent’s noses? I swear to God I would never have gotten anywhere near > to getting away with that much when I was a kid. > When I was a kid (which wasn’t that long ago), my mom would have taken > one look at me and said, "What the hell do you think you’re doing going > to school dressed all in black like that, NO, you’re not going to school > looking like that, I won’t have people thinking we’re the kind of > parents that would allow our kid to dress like that, and if that’s the > way all the boys you hang around with are dressing, well, guess what, > you’re not hanging around with those boys any more, and another thing > young man, you need to straighten up your attitude, and here’s a whole > weeks’ worth of house and yard and garage chores to help you do just > that…" > Today, the principles that my parents raised me with have been > completely turned backwards and upside down. Today, you have parents > suing a school for sending their 14-year-old daughter home for wearing > purple hair and black lipstick and a dog collar, because sending the kid > home made her feel bad. > To sum up, when I was a kid, if I got out of line or some other kid got > out of line, the very first thing everyone wanted to know about was what > was going on with that kid’s parents and that kids home life? Today, > those seem to be the very last questions anyone wants to ask. Today, it > seems that we’re always supposed to give the parents the benefit of the > doubt no matter what their kids do. Today, too many parents want to be > their kids buddies, and are more concerned with making sure their kids > feel good and are happy than they are with anything else. Maybe if more > people asked more questions about parents whose kids are out of line, > things wouldn’t be this bad today. > — > ‘bonehead > |"If a man’s alone in the woods, and he says something, | > | and there’s no woman around to criticize him, is he | > | still wrong?" | > | Fred Pickles, 1997 |
Response:
Okay, here goes, We seem to have reached a kind of consensus over the last 30 years or so that we’re always supposed to give parents the benefit of the doubt no matter what. To me, the very first thing I want to know about is, where the hell were these boys’ parents and what were they thinking? When I was a kid, if I misbehaved somewhere in my neighborhood, before I got home, some adult in that area would have called my mother and told her what I had done, and by the time I got home, my mother would have just been all over me with, "What were you thinking behaving that way, what do you suppose people are going to think of us as parents?". And then I would have spent the rest of the day dreading the disapproval of my father when he got home. And when I was punished, it would have been made clear to everyone in the neighborhood that I was getting reprimanded for my behavior and wouldn’t be doing that again anytime in the near future. Today, nobody does that because they’re afraid they’ll get threatened or sued or worse. Teachers especialy know better than to call the parents of a misbehaving kid. They know that if they do, the chances are better than 90% that they will get one of three responses. Either it will be, "You must be lying because my kid would never do anything like that", or, "It must be your fault, what did you do to make my kid so unhappy?", or, "Who the hell do you think you are judging my kid and embarassing my kid? Don’t you ever do this again or I swear to God I’ll sue the school and get you fired!" Why did these parents allow their boys to go to school every day dressed all in black and acting like such misanthropes? How the hell did these kids get access to so much weaponry? How did they manage to gather all these bombs and firearms and make all these plans, right under their parent’s noses? I swear to God I would never have gotten anywhere near to getting away with that much when I was a kid. When I was a kid (which wasn’t that long ago), my mom would have taken one look at me and said, "What the hell do you think you’re doing going to school dressed all in black like that, NO, you’re not going to school looking like that, I won’t have people thinking we’re the kind of parents that would allow our kid to dress like that, and if that’s the way all the boys you hang around with are dressing, well, guess what, you’re not hanging around with those boys any more, and another thing young man, you need to straighten up your attitude, and here’s a whole weeks’ worth of house and yard and garage chores to help you do just that…" Today, the principles that my parents raised me with have been completely turned backwards and upside down. Today, you have parents suing a school for sending their 14-year-old daughter home for wearing purple hair and black lipstick and a dog collar, because sending the kid home made her feel bad. To sum up, when I was a kid, if I got out of line or some other kid got out of line, the very first thing everyone wanted to know about was what was going on with that kid’s parents and that kids home life? Today, those seem to be the very last questions anyone wants to ask. Today, it seems that we’re always supposed to give the parents the benefit of the doubt no matter what their kids do. Today, too many parents want to be their kids buddies, and are more concerned with making sure their kids feel good and are happy than they are with anything else. Maybe if more people asked more questions about parents whose kids are out of line, things wouldn’t be this bad today. — ‘bonehead |"If a man’s alone in the woods, and he says something, | | and there’s no woman around to criticize him, is he | | still wrong?" | | Fred Pickles, 1997 |
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