Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > > > > Well..me and my daughter have talked..extensively..she knows I was > > > > > > worried. She knows she was wrong not to call. She even told me where > > > > > > she had been and what she was doing afterwards. > > > > > Then you should be glad she cares about you and leave it go at that. > > > > > Or better, tell her why you won’t help her with things she wants till > > > > > she wins back your love!! > > > > *Wrong*, Steve! A child should *never* have to "win back your love". > > > > Love is UNconditional, always there, no matter what. Now if you > > > > actually meant "trust", that’s another story. Trust is earned. > > > > Kitten > > > Your love persists, fine, but your love in action knows perfectly well > > > how to communicate disapproval. People who love each other can still be > > > on the outs with one another. > > People who love each other don’t have to worry about winning back the > > love of the people they care about. Showing disapproval and making them > > win back your love are two totally different things. > > Kitten > Same thing exactly. Others know what I’m saying, but you seem to > wish to PRETEND you’ve found something you can chew on, which only > demonstrates your neurosis. > Steve > Steve, > Your words are there for all to see. You can’t pretend those words mean > other than what they say. I truly feel sorry for your children, having > been raised with such a conditional love. > Kitten
You’re desperate to hang on for dear life to something that you wouldn’t even notice if you didn’t have an ulterior motive and a desire to be disingenuous and dishonest! Steve
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > > Well..me and my daughter have talked..extensively..she knows I was > > > > worried. She knows she was wrong not to call. She even told me where > > > > she had been and what she was doing afterwards. > > > Then you should be glad she cares about you and leave it go at that. > > > Or better, tell her why you won’t help her with things she wants till > > > she wins back your love!! > > *Wrong*, Steve! A child should *never* have to "win back your love". > > Love is UNconditional, always there, no matter what. Now if you > > actually meant "trust", that’s another story. Trust is earned. > > Kitten > Your love persists, fine, but your love in action knows perfectly well > how to communicate disapproval. People who love each other can still be > on the outs with one another. > People who love each other don’t have to worry about winning back the > love of the people they care about. Showing disapproval and making them > win back your love are two totally different things. > Kitten
Same thing exactly. Others know what I’m saying, but you seem to wish to PRETEND you’ve found something you can chew on, which only demonstrates your neurosis. Steve
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > > > Well..me and my daughter have talked..extensively..she knows I was > > > > > worried. She knows she was wrong not to call. She even told me where > > > > > she had been and what she was doing afterwards. > > > > Then you should be glad she cares about you and leave it go at that. > > > > Or better, tell her why you won’t help her with things she wants till > > > > she wins back your love!! > > > *Wrong*, Steve! A child should *never* have to "win back your love". > > > Love is UNconditional, always there, no matter what. Now if you > > > actually meant "trust", that’s another story. Trust is earned. > > > Kitten > > Your love persists, fine, but your love in action knows perfectly well > > how to communicate disapproval. People who love each other can still be > > on the outs with one another. > People who love each other don’t have to worry about winning back the > love of the people they care about. Showing disapproval and making them > win back your love are two totally different things. > Kitten > Same thing exactly. Others know what I’m saying, but you seem to > wish to PRETEND you’ve found something you can chew on, which only > demonstrates your neurosis. > Steve
Steve, Your words are there for all to see. You can’t pretend those words mean other than what they say. I truly feel sorry for your children, having been raised with such a conditional love. Kitten
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > Well..me and my daughter have talked..extensively..she knows I was > > > worried. She knows she was wrong not to call. She even told me where > > > she had been and what she was doing afterwards. > > Then you should be glad she cares about you and leave it go at that. > > Or better, tell her why you won’t help her with things she wants till > > she wins back your love!! > *Wrong*, Steve! A child should *never* have to "win back your love". > Love is UNconditional, always there, no matter what. Now if you > actually meant "trust", that’s another story. Trust is earned. > Kitten > Your love persists, fine, but your love in action knows perfectly well > how to communicate disapproval. People who love each other can still be > on the outs with one another.
People who love each other don’t have to worry about winning back the love of the people they care about. Showing disapproval and making them win back your love are two totally different things. Kitten
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have Steve blocked and rarely comment on him anymore. These threads > recently caught my eye and all the replies to him tempted me into a > response. > I don’t usually "pick on him", but as many times as he has said abusive and > derogatory things about myself and others, I don’t have much guilt about it. > 
> hehehe… and then you *know* how I am abt people who set out to harass > others. > Kitten
That’s NOT my goal, unless you are merely mean-spirited toward your children. Then you would DESERVE it! Steve
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I have Steve blocked and rarely comment on him anymore. These threads > > recently caught my eye and all the replies to him tempted me into a > > response. > > I don’t usually "pick on him", but as many times as he has said abusive and > > derogatory things about myself and others, I don’t have much guilt about it. > > > hehehe… and then you *know* how I am abt people who set out to harass > others. > Kitten > That’s NOT my goal, unless you are merely mean-spirited toward your > children. Then you would DESERVE it!
I’ve not seen any of the regular posters here post in a way to imply that they are mean-spirited toward their children. Yet you harass, harangue, and attempt to bully the majority of the people who post. If you treated your children the way you treat people here, I truly feel sorry for them. Kitten
Response:
> I can’t believe how many times he has contradicted himself on these threads. > He will say to be your child’s friend and then he will shun them when they > need him most! If this is really the way he showed consequences to his kids, > then that is really sad. > Deanna
You’re being nothing but a desperately self-serving little partisan ass, as usual. You probably KNOW what I mean, but yet you will try to "mine" my statements disingenuously. Steve
Response:
> I have Steve blocked and rarely comment on him anymore. These threads > recently caught my eye and all the replies to him tempted me into a > response. > I don’t usually "pick on him", but as many times as he has said abusive and > derogatory things about myself and others, I don’t have much guilt about it. >
hehehe… and then you *know* how I am abt people who set out to harass others. Kitten
Response:
> Now, I ask you this. If you’ve never stopped loving your child, why is > it necessary for your child to "win back" your love??? > Kitten
Me loving them and them having to win back my active love is not in contradiction. Two people can love each other but be on the outs. You’re merely fishing for any tiny seeming weakness in your horrible desperation to vanquish me. Steve
Response:
> Steve is rarely if ever sarcastic. He only uses that one if someone proves > him wrong about something. > Deanna
You only wish this ever occurred. Steve
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Well..me and my daughter have talked..extensively..she knows I was > > worried. She knows she was wrong not to call. She even told me where > > she had been and what she was doing afterwards. > Then you should be glad she cares about you and leave it go at that. > Or better, tell her why you won’t help her with things she wants till > she wins back your love!! > *Wrong*, Steve! A child should *never* have to "win back your love". > Love is UNconditional, always there, no matter what. Now if you > actually meant "trust", that’s another story. Trust is earned. > Kitten
Your love persists, fine, but your love in action knows perfectly well how to communicate disapproval. People who love each other can still be on the outs with one another. Steve
Response:
I have Steve blocked and rarely comment on him anymore. These threads recently caught my eye and all the replies to him tempted me into a response. I don’t usually "pick on him", but as many times as he has said abusive and derogatory things about myself and others, I don’t have much guilt about it. Deanna
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I can’t believe how many times he has contradicted himself on these threads. >He will say to be your child’s friend and then he will shun them when they >need him most! If this is really the way he showed consequences to his kids, >then that is really sad. > In defense of Steve, I think it is important to recognize that, as he > said in a recent post, his decisions and suggestions spring from deep > philosophical convictions. His philosophy is obviously not > run-of-the-mill. Whether you agree or disagree with him, consider > that his apparent contradictions may not be contradictions at all, but > may just be your using your own assumptions to fill in the blanks > between his assertions, which do not appear coherent because you do > not understand his philosophy in its entirety. > I often disagree with him, and I think that he is an abrasive ass who > does not grant others the philosophical freedom that he allows > himself, but he is intelligent and insightful. I think that picking > him apart or arguing with him is pointless. He has something very > valuable to contribute to these discussions, and difficult as he is to > understand, it is worth trying. > Try to resolve those apparent contradictions in your own mind, and you > may create something new.
Response:
Steve is rarely if ever sarcastic. He only uses that one if someone proves him wrong about something. Deanna – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – message > > > > > > Well..me and my daughter have talked..extensively..she knows I was > > > > > > worried. She knows she was wrong not to call. She even told me > where > > > > > > she had been and what she was doing afterwards. > > > > > Then you should be glad she cares about you and leave it go at that. > > > > > Or better, tell her why you won’t help her with things she wants > till > > > > > she wins back your love!! > > > > *Wrong*, Steve! A child should *never* have to "win back your love". > > > > Love is UNconditional, always there, no matter what. Now if you > > > > actually meant "trust", that’s another story. Trust is earned. > > > > Kitten > > > I can’t believe how many times he has contradicted himself on these > threads. > > > He will say to be your child’s friend and then he will shun them when > they > > > need him most! If this is really the way he showed consequences to his > kids, > > > then that is really sad. > > I know. Here are comments from another of his posts this morning: > > = = = = > > > You may not have grounded your daughter from going out with her friends, > but > > > you did *ground* her by "closing your heart and your love" to her. > > <to which Steve replied:> > > If friends are not friendly then I do that, we all do, me, you, my > > kids, your kids. > > = = = = > > > I may > > > have grounded my daughter from going out on the weekend but I would > NEVER > > > close my heart and my love to her. > > <to which Steve replied:> > > Then your love means nothing. > > = = = = > > > I tell them all the time that I love them, that could > > > never change, but I did not like what they did. It’s their actions I > didn’t > > > like but I will ALWAYS love THEM. > > <to which Steve replied:> > > I never said I stopped loving them. That wouldn’t even be possible, > > = = = = > > Now, I ask you this. If you’ve never stopped loving your child, why is > > it necessary for your child to "win back" your love??? > > Kitten > It seems he was just being sarcastic, maybe?….. > Marie > I don’t think so. Perhaps trying to convey a thought and failing to get > it across the way he meant? > Kitten
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > > > Well..me and my daughter have talked..extensively..she knows I was > > > > > worried. She knows she was wrong not to call. She even told me > where > > > > > she had been and what she was doing afterwards. > > > > Then you should be glad she cares about you and leave it go at that. > > > > Or better, tell her why you won’t help her with things she wants > till > > > > she wins back your love!! > > > *Wrong*, Steve! A child should *never* have to "win back your love". > > > Love is UNconditional, always there, no matter what. Now if you > > > actually meant "trust", that’s another story. Trust is earned. > > > Kitten > > I can’t believe how many times he has contradicted himself on these > threads. > > He will say to be your child’s friend and then he will shun them when > they > > need him most! If this is really the way he showed consequences to his > kids, > > then that is really sad. > I know. Here are comments from another of his posts this morning: > = = = = > > You may not have grounded your daughter from going out with her friends, > but > > you did *ground* her by "closing your heart and your love" to her. > <to which Steve replied:> > If friends are not friendly then I do that, we all do, me, you, my > kids, your kids. > = = = = > > I may > > have grounded my daughter from going out on the weekend but I would > NEVER > > close my heart and my love to her. > <to which Steve replied:> > Then your love means nothing. > = = = = > > I tell them all the time that I love them, that could > > never change, but I did not like what they did. It’s their actions I > didn’t > > like but I will ALWAYS love THEM. > <to which Steve replied:> > I never said I stopped loving them. That wouldn’t even be possible, > = = = = > Now, I ask you this. If you’ve never stopped loving your child, why is > it necessary for your child to "win back" your love??? > Kitten > It seems he was just being sarcastic, maybe?….. > Marie
I don’t think so. Perhaps trying to convey a thought and failing to get it across the way he meant? Kitten
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > > Well..me and my daughter have talked..extensively..she knows I was > > > > worried. She knows she was wrong not to call. She even told me where > > > > she had been and what she was doing afterwards. > > > Then you should be glad she cares about you and leave it go at that. > > > Or better, tell her why you won’t help her with things she wants till > > > she wins back your love!! > > *Wrong*, Steve! A child should *never* have to "win back your love". > > Love is UNconditional, always there, no matter what. Now if you > > actually meant "trust", that’s another story. Trust is earned. > > Kitten > I can’t believe how many times he has contradicted himself on these threads. > He will say to be your child’s friend and then he will shun them when they > need him most! If this is really the way he showed consequences to his kids, > then that is really sad. > I know. Here are comments from another of his posts this morning: > = = = = > You may not have grounded your daughter from going out with her friends, but > you did *ground* her by "closing your heart and your love" to her. > <to which Steve replied:> > If friends are not friendly then I do that, we all do, me, you, my > kids, your kids. > = = = = > I may > have grounded my daughter from going out on the weekend but I would NEVER > close my heart and my love to her. > <to which Steve replied:> > Then your love means nothing. > = = = = > I tell them all the time that I love them, that could > never change, but I did not like what they did. It’s their actions I didn’t > like but I will ALWAYS love THEM. > <to which Steve replied:> > I never said I stopped loving them. That wouldn’t even be possible, > = = = = > Now, I ask you this. If you’ve never stopped loving your child, why is > it necessary for your child to "win back" your love??? > Kitten
It seems he was just being sarcastic, maybe?….. Marie
Response:
>I can’t believe how many times he has contradicted himself on these threads. >He will say to be your child’s friend and then he will shun them when they >need him most! If this is really the way he showed consequences to his kids, >then that is really sad.
In defense of Steve, I think it is important to recognize that, as he said in a recent post, his decisions and suggestions spring from deep philosophical convictions. His philosophy is obviously not run-of-the-mill. Whether you agree or disagree with him, consider that his apparent contradictions may not be contradictions at all, but may just be your using your own assumptions to fill in the blanks between his assertions, which do not appear coherent because you do not understand his philosophy in its entirety. I often disagree with him, and I think that he is an abrasive ass who does not grant others the philosophical freedom that he allows himself, but he is intelligent and insightful. I think that picking him apart or arguing with him is pointless. He has something very valuable to contribute to these discussions, and difficult as he is to understand, it is worth trying. Try to resolve those apparent contradictions in your own mind, and you may create something new.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > Well..me and my daughter have talked..extensively..she knows I was > > > worried. She knows she was wrong not to call. She even told me where > > > she had been and what she was doing afterwards. > > Then you should be glad she cares about you and leave it go at that. > > Or better, tell her why you won’t help her with things she wants till > > she wins back your love!! > *Wrong*, Steve! A child should *never* have to "win back your love". > Love is UNconditional, always there, no matter what. Now if you > actually meant "trust", that’s another story. Trust is earned. > Kitten > I can’t believe how many times he has contradicted himself on these threads. > He will say to be your child’s friend and then he will shun them when they > need him most! If this is really the way he showed consequences to his kids, > then that is really sad.
I know. Here are comments from another of his posts this morning: = = = = > You may not have grounded your daughter from going out with her friends, but > you did *ground* her by "closing your heart and your love" to her.
<to which Steve replied:> If friends are not friendly then I do that, we all do, me, you, my kids, your kids. = = = = > I may > have grounded my daughter from going out on the weekend but I would NEVER > close my heart and my love to her.
<to which Steve replied:> Then your love means nothing. = = = = > I tell them all the time that I love them, that could > never change, but I did not like what they did. It’s their actions I didn’t > like but I will ALWAYS love THEM.
<to which Steve replied:> I never said I stopped loving them. That wouldn’t even be possible, = = = = Now, I ask you this. If you’ve never stopped loving your child, why is it necessary for your child to "win back" your love??? Kitten
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Well..me and my daughter have talked..extensively..she knows I was > > worried. She knows she was wrong not to call. She even told me where > > she had been and what she was doing afterwards. > Then you should be glad she cares about you and leave it go at that. > Or better, tell her why you won’t help her with things she wants till > she wins back your love!! > *Wrong*, Steve! A child should *never* have to "win back your love". > Love is UNconditional, always there, no matter what. Now if you > actually meant "trust", that’s another story. Trust is earned. > Kitten
I can’t believe how many times he has contradicted himself on these threads. He will say to be your child’s friend and then he will shun them when they need him most! If this is really the way he showed consequences to his kids, then that is really sad. Deanna
Response:
> > Well..me and my daughter have talked..extensively..she knows I was > worried. She knows she was wrong not to call. She even told me where > she had been and what she was doing afterwards. > Then you should be glad she cares about you and leave it go at that. > Or better, tell her why you won’t help her with things she wants till > she wins back your love!!
*Wrong*, Steve! A child should *never* have to "win back your love". Love is UNconditional, always there, no matter what. Now if you actually meant "trust", that’s another story. Trust is earned. Kitten
Response:
> Well..me and my daughter have talked..extensively..she knows I was > worried. She knows she was wrong not to call. She even told me where > she had been and what she was doing afterwards.
Then you should be glad she cares about you and leave it go at that. Or better, tell her why you won’t help her with things she wants till she wins back your love!! > We have settled on 2 > weeks grounding and forfeiting any/all previous groundings.
You mean *YOU* have! If she’s grounded and not you it means she has no power and she STILL develops a hate of you which will re-manifest later! You don’t really understand this yet, but you will! Steve
Response:
> Well..me and my daughter have talked..extensively..she knows I was > worried. She knows she was wrong not to call. She even told me where > she had been and what she was doing afterwards. We have settled on 2 > weeks grounding and forfeiting any/all previous groundings. We talked > about why I am doing it, she agreed with me. This is her moment of > truth..I asked her if she thought it was too harsh…she said no..this > is a joint venture and she is going to try to make the best of it. She > knows there is no turning back after this one. Mom is not going to > give this time. It is a length of time she can handle. She agreed to > the rules of it and that is that. We both put our trust in each other > to make the best of the situation. I believe what I am doing is right. > Frannie
Sounds like you handled it *very* well, Frannie. Kitten
Response:
Good for you. Sounds like a plan. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Well..me and my daughter have talked..extensively..she knows I was >worried. She knows she was wrong not to call. She even told me where >she had been and what she was doing afterwards. We have settled on 2 >weeks grounding and forfeiting any/all previous groundings. We talked >about why I am doing it, she agreed with me. This is her moment of >truth..I asked her if she thought it was too harsh…she said no..this >is a joint venture and she is going to try to make the best of it. She >knows there is no turning back after this one. Mom is not going to >give this time. It is a length of time she can handle. She agreed to >the rules of it and that is that. We both put our trust in each other >to make the best of the situation. I believe what I am doing is right. >Frannie
Response:
> Well..me and my daughter have talked..extensively..she knows I was > worried. She knows she was wrong not to call. She even told me where > she had been and what she was doing afterwards. We have settled on 2 > weeks grounding and forfeiting any/all previous groundings. We talked > about why I am doing it, she agreed with me. This is her moment of > truth..I asked her if she thought it was too harsh…she said no..this > is a joint venture and she is going to try to make the best of it. She > knows there is no turning back after this one. Mom is not going to > give this time. It is a length of time she can handle. She agreed to > the rules of it and that is that. We both put our trust in each other > to make the best of the situation. I believe what I am doing is right. > Frannie
And that’s all that really matters, for you. As it should be.
Response:
> Well..me and my daughter have talked..extensively..she knows I was > worried. She knows she was wrong not to call. She even told me where > she had been and what she was doing afterwards. We have settled on 2 > weeks grounding and forfeiting any/all previous groundings. We talked > about why I am doing it, she agreed with me. This is her moment of > truth..I asked her if she thought it was too harsh…she said no..this > is a joint venture and she is going to try to make the best of it. She > knows there is no turning back after this one. Mom is not going to > give this time. It is a length of time she can handle. She agreed to > the rules of it and that is that. We both put our trust in each other > to make the best of the situation. I believe what I am doing is right.
It sounds like you did exactly what you should have to put that event and the consequences in the perspective that will probably bring things to a positive conclusion. Do be prepared, however, for what is called an "extinction burst". By your report you have not been sticking by consequences that you have given your daughter in the past. Consciously or unconsciously she is going to expect you to cave in at some point in the next two weeks, probably on or about Friday. This is not unusual when you change a behavior pattern. She will then start whining and nudging to get you to do what you always used to do. Stand firm. In an extinction burst the undesired behavior [the whining to get you to cave in, in this instance] comes out hot and heavy for a while, even more so than it used to before you started the new way of doing things. When the old reaction isn’t forthcoming then the behavior finally stops, perhaps with one or two nudges at return to the old pattern again later, although at much less intense levels. Stand firm. Find ways to reward yourself for standing firm. One of the toughest parts of parenting, IMO, is changing a behavior of your own that was leading to inappropriate behavior on the part of the kids. It’s always so much easier to do what you are used to doing than the new way of doing. Hang in there and be firm with yourself, and you will get there! -Aula
Response:
Well..me and my daughter have talked..extensively..she knows I was worried. She knows she was wrong not to call. She even told me where she had been and what she was doing afterwards. We have settled on 2 weeks grounding and forfeiting any/all previous groundings. We talked about why I am doing it, she agreed with me. This is her moment of truth..I asked her if she thought it was too harsh…she said no..this is a joint venture and she is going to try to make the best of it. She knows there is no turning back after this one. Mom is not going to give this time. It is a length of time she can handle. She agreed to the rules of it and that is that. We both put our trust in each other to make the best of the situation. I believe what I am doing is right. Frannie
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