Question:
>I also think you are sadly mistaken for thinking that this 15 yr old is not >asking for help. He is screaming for it.
He is screaming to simply be heard. That is often the help that anybody needs. — Do not underestimate your abilities. That is your boss’s job. It is your job to find ways around your boss’s roadblocks.
Response:
Ok, now here is *his* story from what he has said mostly in answer to those who tried to pick apart the post but also to those in aar who attempted to listen and help. Silenced is 15. He comes from a wealthy family. His dad is a computer executive in a large company. His dad is abusing him physically and sexually (?) (this he may have to clarify, I am not sure that this was part of what he meant) His dad is an ex-marine who knows how to beat him without leaving marks, so there is no physical evidence of what he is going through. As a result of the pain and rage, he has gotten in trouble himself at school and with the law. When he tried to trust adults and tell them about what was happening, the adults simply refused to believe it and returned him to his dad. The results were more beatings and abuse with a tazer. As a result of his own vulnerability (my interpretation here, not his), he was hanging around with other *misfits* and was approached by a man who was gentle with him. My interpretation of what happened next is part of what he blames himself for and he should not. He did what he needed to do and for that no blame can be attached, imo. He found that this man wanted him sexually. So he and his friends became trapped in that also. They have been used in child porn by this man. He has posted a bit about this, but my impression is that while he does have evidence that could be used to get out of this part, it would not solve the problem since he would still probably be in his father’s custody. My take on what he is saying is not that we can actually do much to help him in the hear and now. He knows that it is only his own strength that will get him through this *hell,* and he and his friends do have ideas and plans to get through it and out of it. What I think he really wants from us is the understanding that those kids (especially teens perhaps) who are *odd* and who are acting out need understanding not punishment. They may need rescuing, but they won’t trust us until we can hear them, believe them and not judge. Dorothy
Response:
Dorothy, I have only been following this for a short while and because of this I too did not know Silenced age or any details beyond the last few postings.This is why I have never responded to any of them. My heart goes out to him and I would love a summary to be posted so that I can do what he is asking…to listen and not to judge. Marion—–tampamom to Louis (6) and Erica(2) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Dorothy:> To have the adults >>*believe* him. You already question his validity starting right in >>your first statement. Nice work on that. >Maybe she innocently wanted to know his age. Surely you must admit from >reading >his posts, that if one does not contain his age and you are curious, it >would >be hard to figure out. >I know. I tend to jump in on this because I feel so strongly that he >needs to be truly heard. >Actually, I admit that it is all fairly difficult because he is answering >different points on different groups. If anyone here wants a summary >of what has been said so far about the exact situation, I can repost >from what I have archived. >Dorothy
Response:
For Marion and others who want to hear then: First I am reposting the original post here. It is a composite of stories that Silenced and his friends found on the web, added to and then posted in hopes that some of use would respond and at least listen to what they felt and were saying about how people ought to be looking at kids. It was posted to alt.parenting. spanking first on 10/16/99 and then after I talked to him in e-mail it was reposted here and in some other newsgroups under my signature with his permission. alt.parenting.solutions and alt.activism.children were the others and then he found alt.abuse.recovery and alt.parenting.teens and some other groups and posted it there on his own. This is long. I will post the *his* story as I have pieced it together in a separate post after this. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’m speaking on behalf of the many boys who have been molested. >The "one in six." We sit in your classrooms, we worship in your >churches, hang out at your parties, work in your businesses, shop >in the same stores you do, and sleep in your beds. >We are a mystery to you. You probably sense something is "not >quite right" and that makes you uneasy and wary, and so you >avoid us, don’t look at us, don’t talk to us. We’re distant >yet long for closeness, so we pull you in then push you away. >We drink too much and laugh too loud, and then suddenly retreat, >afraid we’ll call attention to ourselves and then you’ll know – >or at least start asking questions. And we never, EVER cry in >front of you. It’s too scary. We’re too fragile. We’re afraid if >we get started, we’ll never stop. >The littlest among us don’t talk because we’re scared. We know >what they did to us is wrong, but they’re big enough to hurt us >or kill us if we tell. It may be our dad, and then if we tell >they’ll come and take him away, and it’ll be our fault, and then >our family will be gone, and who’s gonna take care of us then? >Besides, he said he’s sorry and he loves me. That’s why he said >he did it, ’cause I’m special, and if I tell and he leaves, I >won’t be special anymore. And anyway, aren’t guys supposed to >be real tough? Only a sissy cries and tattles, isn’t that right? >If he’s an uncle or cousin or brother or grampa, no one will >believe me and they’ll said it wasn’t what I thought it was and >he didn’t mean it that way and it’s probably my imagination. Plus >he gave me stuff and paid attention to me so I have to do stuff >with him. Got to pay your debts, you know? >If he’s a teacher I won’t tell because you’re supposed to respect >and obey teachers, and who is gonna believe a kid over a teacher >anyway? Everyone knows kids like me are just trouble makers, you >know, the ones that are "not quite right" that you gotta look out >for because who knows what stuff they’ll say and do? Plus, the >teacher says my school friends will find out if I tell and they’ll >hate me for trying to get the teacher in trouble to save my own >hide. >If he’s a priest or a minister I won’t tell because he’s supposed >to be God’s authority and I’m supposed to trust him and he said >it’s OK with God what we’re doing and it would be wrong not to >trust God’s man, or he says its to purify me and drive the evil >out – and who would ever believe a man of God would do such a >thing to a screwed up kid like me anyways? >Adolescent boys…we don’t talk because it’s too mixed up. Sex is >new, and it feels good. The older man says he’s my friend. He says >all boys do it, its part of being a man, so it’s OK, right? Even >though it doesn’t feel okay. He spends a lot of time and money on me, >and I trust him. He’s older, he knows better, right? He says Greek >and Roman teachers did this stuff with their boy students to teach >them how to be a man. He makes me feel like an adult because he lets >me drink and smoke and look at his porn videos and stuff. He says >it’s all normal to get turned on by it and that he knows how to take >care of it for me. He says we’re not queer or anything and he told me >about some other guys I know who do it too so maybe it’s alright >because I know they’ve got girlfriends and everything so I know >they’re not gay. But I don’t tell because he says people will think >I am and if my parents found out they’d be mad as hell and that I could >end up like those gays who were killed. He tells me it’s normal >because guys just can’t get enough sex and it’s unhealthy not to, ad >he says he knows I enjoy him doing it to me because I can’t help >responding. >I don’t tell because he took pictures of me and says if they "get out" >everyone will think I’m a perv (even though he says he knows I’m >not). He even had me do a video with some other kids and even paid us, >so I can’t tell now, ’cause they’ll put me in jail for it, because >there are unfair laws against nude art and freedom of expression and >all, right? At least that’s what he told me. >I don’t tell because I’m mixed up and hurting. If it’s normal, how come >I feel so dirty? How come it feels good sometimes but how come I hate >myself afterward? He tells me it’s not "queer" – so how come I feel >like it is? Why don’t I just tell him to stop, why am I so afraid of >him? Because if he gets mad, he says I’ll be the one who’s sorry. What >does he mean by that? I hate him, but if he starts coming on to another >kid I feel scared and mad and rejected and abandoned. No one understands >the power he’s got over me – to confuse me, make me feel good, special, >then scare me, and trap me. I won’t tell because there’s no way in hell >anyone would believe I didn’t want this to happen, or that could >understand me, or love me. I’m just a piece of property and everyone >will think I asked for it – or if I was a real man, I would’ve been >able to stop him. They don’t get it. I don’t tell because I’m ashamed. >And I’m scared. And no matter how bad all this is, it’s better than >you finding out what I did. >Remember, there is "something not quite right" with kids like me, that >nothing we say and do can ever ever be trusted, that we’re always in >trouble of one kind or another. That’s how you grownups have treated >kids like me all along anyway, so why shouldn’t we be skeptical and >wary of you? You’d rather look the other way, label us as "not quite > right" and "troublemakers" and "delinquents" than look to really find >out why we’re "not quite right" – that takes work, and you just don’t >want to put out the effort, it’s much easier to slap on the label and >walk away. >We don’t talk because we don’t trust you, and believe me, you gotta >earn that. We trusted the guy that molested us and he betrayed us. >You gotta prove you won’t betray us too. >Silenced >Before you buy.
Response:
>Dorothy:> To have the adults >*believe* him. You already question his validity starting right in >your first statement. Nice work on that. >Maybe she innocently wanted to know his age. Surely you must admit from reading >his posts, that if one does not contain his age and you are curious, it would >be hard to figure out.
I know. I tend to jump in on this because I feel so strongly that he needs to be truly heard. Actually, I admit that it is all fairly difficult because he is answering different points on different groups. If anyone here wants a summary of what has been said so far about the exact situation, I can repost from what I have archived. Dorothy
Response:
>I replied like an adult because I am one. I have children, a mortgage and a >double order of responsibilities with a little sleep deprivation on the >side. > I question Silenced because I was taught to question most everything on >the Internet and the real world. I AM listening though, I read his post
and I >was moved, and I would like to help any way I can and >it is not very nice of you to take pot shots at me because I do not have >hours upon hours of time to be here. I have a Life here that demands my >attention. Attack me for that? Do what you must Dorothy… >I also think you are sadly mistaken for thinking that this 15 yr old is not >asking for help. He is screaming for it. >He is spending a lot of time attacking ALL adults, he is angry and has every >right to be. But not at me. I am not his father or mother or any other >abuser and lumping me into the "bad adult" category is not fair of any of >you. I have said before that I would like to help any way I can and I hope >Silenced hears that. I just want him to know that I am here , listening and >thinking about his trouble and frankly feeling helpless. >Katie
That wasn’t a pot shot, Katie, really, but I do think when someone here questions the truth of his perception that contributes to the anger he has at all of *us* adults. Yes, he is screaming for help, but he has no hope that we can give it and he is strong enough to decide for himself how to proceed to get out of the mess. We do need to simply be hear listening, telling him that *we* believe him and will do what we can if he guides us in what he wants us to do, I think. Dorothy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
>You already question his validity starting right in >your first statement. Nice work on that. It certainly puts him in >good company in terms of judging us adults as not *hearing* >what he has said.
"Who knows where thoughts come from – they just appear"
Response:
>>You already question his validity starting right in >your first statement. Nice work on that. It certainly puts him in >good company in terms of judging us adults as not *hearing* >what he has said.
True she just came on the thread and answered in exactly the way he expects adults to answer, though. Isn’t that why we should read through threads before we attempt to make sense of a single post? Dorothy
Response:
Dorothy:> To have the adults >*believe* him. You already question his validity starting right in >your first statement. Nice work on that.
Maybe she innocently wanted to know his age. Surely you must admit from reading his posts, that if one does not contain his age and you are curious, it would be hard to figure out. Cathy Mom to Taylor 6, & Tiffany 4. "To handle yourself, use your head…To handle others, use your heart!" http://hometown.aol.com/cathlynnnn/myhomepage/index.html
Response:
I replied like an adult because I am one. I have children, a mortgage and a double order of responsibilities with a little sleep deprivation on the side. I question Silenced because I was taught to question most everything on the Internet and the real world. I AM listening though, I read his post and I was moved, and I would like to help any way I can and it is not very nice of you to take pot shots at me because I do not have hours upon hours of time to be here. I have a Life here that demands my attention. Attack me for that? Do what you must Dorothy… I also think you are sadly mistaken for thinking that this 15 yr old is not asking for help. He is screaming for it. He is spending a lot of time attacking ALL adults, he is angry and has every right to be. But not at me. I am not his father or mother or any other abuser and lumping me into the "bad adult" category is not fair of any of you. I have said before that I would like to help any way I can and I hope Silenced hears that. I just want him to know that I am here , listening and thinking about his trouble and frankly feeling helpless. Katie
Response:
>True she just came on the thread and answered in exactly the >way he expects adults to answer, though. >Isn’t that why we should read through threads before we attempt >to make sense of a single post? >Dorothy
Yes you should read through it but sometimes people can misunderstand things. I just think if we were all a little less jusgemental and quick to throw up defenses the silly bickering would be cut down to a minimum :) "Who knows where thoughts come from – they just appear"
Response:
>How old are you? >Sorry,I just picked up this thread.
Since silenced may go absent again for a while I will try to answer you with what I have learned from following his posts in several newsgroups. He is 15 and he and his friends do have a plan to get out. Unfortunately that seems to involve hanging in there for another 3 years, but he’s made his own choice of what he needs to do. > If you are in all actuality an abused youth in todays society you just may >need to take the initiative. >Unfair? Yes >Life? Obviously. >There are youth homes you can go to that will protect you from your father. >You have one of the greatest tools at your fingertips To find these places. >I am sorry to say that you have been forced to grow up and face lives >harshest realities at a very young age and for that my soul cries for you.
Go back and read what happened when he tried to talk and tried to get cps to take him out of that home. There is no physical evidence and his family has money and power. If you think that he can simply find a youth home and walk into it, you are sadly mistaken. He was returned to his father and badly abused for having spoken out. > Decide where you want to go create a plan and and do it. >Only you can rescue you.
He already knows that. He didn’t come here asking for *help* but to explain himself and be listened to. To have the adults *believe* him. You already question his validity starting right in your first statement. Nice work on that. It certainly puts him in good company in terms of judging us adults as not *hearing* what he has said. >If you came to this group hoping to find somebody to solve your problems >you will inevitabley be disappointed. >Most of the people here cannot fathom your problems. And respecting the >opinions of those WHO CAN need to have there points of view respected. >You
said yourself that is what appalls you most about "all us adults" right? > I am willing to listen to you , help come up with a plan , to help you as >much as a poor mom with a computer can. >I am going to bed… have a teething one year old and if tonight is like >the past 3 weeks I am going to be up in coup;e of hours. >Hang in there >Katie
Silenced is angry, probably angry at the world because he has asked for help and found he cannot get it. What he is asking here though is simple. He hasn’t asked any of us to solve *his* problems. He has asked us to listen, to think, maybe to look differently at the next kid we see acting out. He is asking us to look at these kids and to begin to try to find out the causes of their behavior instead of simply blaming them and punishing them for their anger and rage. Maybe it is as simple as seeing the teen who is in trouble at school for a person in pain, not a troublemaker who wants to lash out and get into trouble. Maybe it is as simple as accepting that a kid who is different may be worth something despite his difference. Dorothy
Response:
How old are you? Sorry,I just picked up this thread. If you are in all actuality an abused youth in todays society you just may need to take the initiative. Unfair? Yes Life? Obviously. There are youth homes you can go to that will protect you from your father. You have one of the greatest tools at your fingertips To find these places. I am sorry to say that you have been forced to grow up and face lives harshest realities at a very young age and for that my soul cries for you. Decide where you want to go create a plan and and do it. Only you can rescue you. If you came to this group hoping to find somebody to solve your problems you will inevitabley be disappointed. Most of the people here cannot fathom your problems. And respecting the opinions of those WHO CAN need to have there points of view respected. You said yourself that is what appalls you most about "all us adults" right? I am willing to listen to you , help come up with a plan , to help you as much as a poor mom with a computer can. I am going to bed… have a teething one year old and if tonight is like the past 3 weeks I am going to be up in coup;e of hours. Hang in there Katie
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