Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> These days it is fairly common for people to live together in a permanent > relationship without that "piece of paper", and I think that shows you how > things are changing. >And not for the better. I always figured if one >was going to live in a unit, why not make it formal? >As i said, 10 minutes in front of a judge and >one is no longer a slut living in sin with bastard children. >Just my opinion. I could be wrong, >but I don’t think I am. >Angel who believes in marriage, love and children >In that order.
But why should everyone adhere to your conformist values instilled on your generation by yesterdays society? And why should I be called a slut just because I don’t have a marriage license and wedding ring? My partner and I are 100% committed to each other and our daughter and I challenge anyone who dares to call her a bastard. That may just be an opinion of yours, but I think it is rather harsh and I find it very offensive to be labelled like this by someone who knows nothing about me and my family. Moonlight
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> These days it is fairly common for people to live together in a >permanent >>> relationship without that "piece of paper", and I think that shows you >how >>> things are changing. >>And not for the better. I always figured if one >>was going to live in a unit, why not make it formal? >>As i said, 10 minutes in front of a judge and >>one is no longer a slut living in sin with bastard children. >>Just my opinion. I could be wrong, >>but I don’t think I am. >>Angel who believes in marriage, love and children >>In that order. >But why should everyone adhere to your conformist values instilled on your >generation by yesterdays society? And why should I be called a slut just >because I don’t have a marriage license and wedding ring? My partner and I >are 100% committed to each other and our daughter and I challenge anyone >who >dares to call her a bastard. >That may just be an opinion of yours, but I think it is rather harsh and I >find it very offensive to be labelled like this by someone who knows >nothing >about me and my family. >Moonlight >No one said you have to adhere to anyone’s values, the guy asked for >opinions and advice. That is what he is getting. Obviously not everyone >agrees. You think it’s ok and some of us don’t. End of it. No one asked >you to adhere to our values. >Dawn (Taylor and Mackenzie’s mom)
Well if we don’t have to adhere to your values, why do unmarried couples have to put up with attitudes like yours just because we don’t agree with the the concept of marriage. >>As I said, 10 minutes in front of a judge and >>one is no longer a slut living in sin with bastard children
And I don’t think that opinions should include such strong words! I was quite amazed and shocked by these words. >>Angel who believes in marriage, love and children >>In that order.
Moonlight, who believes in love, commitment and children In that order! Soulmate and Life Partner to Noel and Mother to Hannah.
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>As I said, 10 minutes in front of a judge and >one is no longer a slut living in sin with bastard children
Then why on earth did you say this? Moonlight
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Thank you Zombie, I tried to straighten that out earlier by saying there were 2 posts mixed up. I think by quoting someone else, she thinks that I said all those things! Dawn (Taylor and Mackenzie’s mom) >With vim and vigor, Moonlight wrote in alt.parenting.solutions:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >As I said, 10 minutes in front of a judge and > >one is no longer a slut living in sin with bastard children > Then why on earth did you say this? >*Dawn* didn’t say that, Angel Sparrow did, in article number >followup. Sheesh, next time, take a moment to check the attribution >before you start accusing someone of saying something. >– >Zombiie – Kail (7/16/97) >reply to: pyaray at newsguy dot com
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>Thank you Zombie, I tried to straighten that out earlier by saying there >were 2 posts mixed up. I think by quoting someone else, she thinks that I >said all those things! >Dawn (Taylor and Mackenzie’s mom)
Oops…..I’m very, very sorry. I do know about quotes but I must have not looked properly. My only excuse is that I’m new to these ng’s! Please accept my apologies Dawn. And Zombie…you’re quick off the mark for defending Dawn aren’t you? An admirable quality! : ) Moonlight
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Don’t you think a person can make a commitment without marrying her? Commitment is a lot deeper than a signed piece of paper. If the original poster truly cares for the mother, then the children will see that love and respect. In my opinion, that’s what they need, not a marriage certificate. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > If you really love the woman, marry her. Until then, don’t sleep over. It’s not > fair to the kids and sets a poor example. By the way, what the hell is a > "permanent boyfriend???" I thought that was called "husband." Make the > commitment or don’t, but don’t come up with pretty terms for faking it. > – Blanche F.
Response:
>Don’t you think a person can make a commitment without marrying her? Commitment is >a lot deeper than a signed piece of paper. If the original poster truly cares for >the mother, then the children will see that love and respect. In my opinion, >that’s what they need, not a marriage certificate.
That’s fine if you don’t mind your children thinking premarital sex is OK.
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Angel here >If you really love the woman, marry her. Until then, don’t sleep over. It’s >not >fair to the kids and sets a poor example. By the way, what the hell is a >"permanent boyfriend???" I thought that was called "husband." Make the >commitment or don’t, but don’t come up with pretty terms for faking it. >- Blanche F. > Blanche, marriage is not for everyone, and I don’t think it’s fair to make > such statements about "faking it".
I must agree with Blanche. There is married and there is not. "Permanent boyfriends" last 9 month on average. Think how confusing it is to a kid to get used to calling him "dad" only to have him move out. Sounds like GF is thinking only about warming up her bed, and not about her kids. > Things change with time, and this includes the way people express their > companionship and commitment to each other. > For some people, marriage is not for them….does mean that they don’t love > each other as much as a couple who are married?
Yes, but nothing says they have to stay together."We’ll move in, if things work, fine, if not, we walk" is fine for college couples playing house, but by 30, you need to be thinking long term. Yes, I know divorce rates are astronomical. Yes, i know some couples can live together forever without marrying. But I know other couples where after several years (and a child) one partner decided she was the amrrying type and he wasn’t. Those break up very quickly after the decision. > Personally, I think marriage is an old fashioned and expensive ritual.
No, a wedding is an old-fashioned and expensive ritual, if you do it fancy. If not, it takes 10 minutes, $15 and a judge. Marriage is the on-going relationship between two people. My husband and I were married long before the wedding. We could not conceive of a future without the other in it, and thought of ourselves as a unit as well as individuals. That is what marriage is. I have a friend who is doing a wedding this next summer. They have not hit a "we" point. He cheats on her, and she clings to him ever tighter. Money is "his and hers" activities are "his and hers" even sex is "his and hers" There is no unit. It is two people living together and having sex, but it is not a marriage, and won’t be, regardless of the paper, until he grows up and she quits clinging. > These days it is fairly common for people to live together in a permanent > relationship without that "piece of paper", and I think that shows you how > things are changing.
And not for the better. I always figured if one was going to live in a unit, why not make it formal? As i said, 10 minutes in front of a judge and one is no longer a slut living in sin with bastard children. Just my opinion. I could be wrong, but I don’t think I am. Angel who believes in marriage, love and children In that order.
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I have a simple thing I use for these type of delemas if you will. I call it go where the fruit is. Find or think of a person who has the type relationship you want in a general sense. Then find out what they di and do it. If you find that peaple as a general rule that have long lasting commited relationships married before they moved in then that would be a sign or vic versa… If I wanted advice on how to be millionair I wouldn’t ask the guy making 30k a year… who cares what he thinks about how to make a mill! SO go it with this relationship who cares what the person who has 4 kids by 4 different spouses says!?
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>I think marriage is an old fashioned and expensive ritual.<BR> >These days it is fairly common for people to live together in a permanent<BR> >relationship without that "piece of paper", and I think that shows you >how<BR> >things are changing.<BR>
Last time I checked marriage lic was $20?
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>>Don’t you think a person can make a commitment without marrying her? >Commitment is >a lot deeper than a signed piece of paper. If the original poster truly >cares for >the mother, then the children will see that love and respect. In my >opinion, >that’s what they need, not a marriage certificate. >That’s fine if you don’t mind your children thinking premarital sex is OK.
Premarital sex is OK for some people. Once again we have opinions coming through as more than
Response:
>I think marriage is an old fashioned and expensive ritual.<BR> >These days it is fairly common for people to live together in a permanent<BR> >relationship without that "piece of paper", and I think that shows you >how<BR> >things are changing.<BR> > Last time I checked marriage lic was $20?
Yeah, but not a hell of a lot of people just get the license now do they??? There’s usually a wedding involved and there lies the cost!
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> These days it is fairly common for people to live together in a permanent >> relationship without that "piece of paper", and I think that shows you >how >> things are changing. >And not for the better. I always figured if one >was going to live in a unit, why not make it formal? >As i said, 10 minutes in front of a judge and >one is no longer a slut living in sin with bastard children. >Just my opinion. I could be wrong, >but I don’t think I am. >Angel who believes in marriage, love and children >In that order. >But why should everyone adhere to your conformist values instilled on your >generation by yesterdays society? And why should I be called a slut just >because I don’t have a marriage license and wedding ring? My partner and I >are 100% committed to each other and our daughter and I challenge anyone who >dares to call her a bastard. >That may just be an opinion of yours, but I think it is rather harsh and I >find it very offensive to be labelled like this by someone who knows nothing >about me and my family. >Moonlight
No one said you have to adhere to anyone’s values, the guy asked for opinions and advice. That is what he is getting. Obviously not everyone agrees. You think it’s ok and some of us don’t. End of it. No one asked you to adhere to our values. Dawn (Taylor and Mackenzie’s mom)
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->No one said you have to adhere to anyone’s values, the guy asked for >opinions and advice. That is what he is getting. Obviously not everyone >agrees. You think it’s ok and some of us don’t. End of it. No one asked >you to adhere to our values. >Dawn (Taylor and Mackenzie’s mom) >Well if we don’t have to adhere to your values, why do unmarried couples >have to put up with attitudes like yours just because we don’t agree with >the the concept of marriage. >>>As I said, 10 minutes in front of a judge and >>>one is no longer a slut living in sin with bastard children >And I don’t think that opinions should include such strong words! I was >quite amazed and shocked by these words. >>>Angel who believes in marriage, love and children >>>In that order. >Moonlight, who believes in love, commitment and children >In that order! >Soulmate and Life Partner to Noel and Mother to Hannah.
Just to clear something up, I didn’t call you a slut. You may have 2 posts mixed up. I only said that no one was asking you to adhere to their values. And as far as I know, no unmarried people have to put up with our "married" attitudes. I don’t push marriage down anyone’s throat. But the guy in the original post was asking for advice. It is just my opinion, religious belief, whatever…that you should be married before living and sleeping together. Especially where children are concerned. But that’s just my opinion. I have family and friends who have lived together unmarried. I’m still friends with them and don’t call them names or think they are "bad" people. Dawn (Taylor and Mackenzie’s mom)
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You say you want to do right by your partner and her children so in my opinion you should marry her first. I know everyone has different views on this subject but I think it is important to teach children that you get married before you live in the same house and share the same bed. Just my opinion!! Dawn (Taylor and Mackenzie’s mom) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello. My name is Brett, Live in Sydney. 32 yo. My Partner is 31 and has two >children and we have been going out for a while now and so far, have only >slept together on alternative weekends because those are the days that her >kids are with her X husband. We are considering moving in together but are >not sure what to do as far as the children are concerned. How would they >react to having me staying in the house, or worse, "sleeping in mummy’s bed" >?? The children are 4yo Boy, and 5 1/2 year old Girl. Both are highly >inteligent and expressive and affectionate kids. It is not uncommon for the >boy to sleep in his mothers bed at night. >I have been through a marriage myself but fortunately dont have any children >of my own. >I want to do the right thing by my partner and the children, so would >appreciate any feedback anyone has on this subject. If you email me direct, >Thanks. >Brett.
Response:
My husband & I lived together for a year before marrying. What promted us to marry when we did is the fact that we wanted to start a family. My opinion is you should marry your girlfriend before moving in, because of the kids. Kids need to know there is a serious commitment. Boyfriend means maybe, maybe not, we’ll see what happens. You called yourself a permanant boyfriend. If your permanant make yourself a husband. Liz
Response:
Hello. My name is Brett, Live in Sydney. 32 yo. My Partner is 31 and has two children and we have been going out for a while now and so far, have only slept together on alternative weekends because those are the days that her kids are with her X husband. We are considering moving in together but are not sure what to do as far as the children are concerned. How would they react to having me staying in the house, or worse, "sleeping in mummy’s bed" ?? The children are 4yo Boy, and 5 1/2 year old Girl. Both are highly inteligent and expressive and affectionate kids. It is not uncommon for the boy to sleep in his mothers bed at night. I have been through a marriage myself but fortunately dont have any children of my own. I want to do the right thing by my partner and the children, so would appreciate any feedback anyone has on this subject. If you email me direct, Thanks. Brett.
Response:
> Hello. My name is Brett, Live in Sydney. 32 yo. My Partner is 31 and has two > children and we have been going out for a while now and so far, have only > slept together on alternative weekends because those are the days that her > kids are with her X husband. We are considering moving in together but are > not sure what to do as far as the children are concerned. How would they > react to having me staying in the house, or worse, "sleeping in mummy’s bed" > ?? The children are 4yo Boy, and 5 1/2 year old Girl. Both are highly > inteligent and expressive and affectionate kids. It is not uncommon for the > boy to sleep in his mothers bed at night. > I have been through a marriage myself but fortunately dont have any children > of my own. > I want to do the right thing by my partner and the children, so would > appreciate any feedback anyone has on this subject. If you email me direct,
If you really love her and feel that moving in would be good for you, I’d say go for it. I moved in with a woman two years ago who had two kids (now 5 and 7). I’ve known the kids for most of their lives, so adjusting me at ages 3 and 5 when I first moved in wasn’t that tough. But you should make sure you have the ground rules set. As a step-child I know what its like to have a stepparent, and tried to avoid any pitfalls. For one, don’t try and force big changes on the kids. They’ll resent you for it, and makes it harder when they get older. Talk to your GF about expectations. If you don’t think you’ll be comfortable about her son spending a lot of time in your bed, she should be willing to work on making her son comfortable sleeping in his own bed (not an instantaneous process I might add). Forcing her to keep him out of the bed immediately probably wouldn’t go over well. It probably would increase the insecurity the boy is feeling that requires staying in his mother’s bed. Talk to her about discipline. I don’t set discipline policy, but I have authority. I use the same tools she does: time-out, revoking of priveledges, etc. For example, if your GF doesn’t believe in spanking, and you do, you’ll have to discuss that up front. Chances are you are going to have to defer to her. However, if she is really lax with the kids, that is something you should talk about. If she doesn’t strongly enforce discipline, I imagine it will grate on your nerves that the kids never have to listen. Either you’ll resent the kids or your GF. One thing to avoid is the kids thinking mom will always override you. Unless you are being completely unreasonable, the kids should accept your word on the first try. Not running to mom to argue their way around your decision. I’ve punished the kids for attempting to get around me. My GF supports me on this, and I don’t get much of it (not that I got much before anyway). And make sure your GF doesn’t contradict you in front of the kids. At least not consistantly. It undermines your authority. And along these same lines, she shouldn’t have to confirm "Yes kids, do what Brett says" everytime you make a decision. Although I leave decisions to my GF most of the time if both of us are present, I make a decision if she is nearby and don’t expect approval. However, since she plans most of the kid’s activities, I do seek approval from her myself to make sure I’m not making a bad decision that I’ll have to immediately reverse. That is different from the kids seeking the approval, hoping for a different decision. Since the kids live with her more than half-time, you probably should prepare yourself to be involved in their lives. I’ve involved myself in my GF’s kid’s lives, and at times they are disappointed when I’m not there at functions. Because I help them with problems and teach them new things (both which I enjoy) they react very favorably. Although not their father, I have a parental role. Its even to the point when the kids call to talk to thier mom when they are at their dad’s (which they do every night), they occassionally ask to talk to me instead. Since your GF’s kids are young, you should be able to integrate yourself into their lives. I imagine that older kids wouldn’t be able to bond with you as well, and would have trouble relating to you. What is the story with the ex? My GF’s ex although started out hating me (actually he probably still does) has begun to accept that I am part of the children’s lives and is willing to put aside his feelings for the sake of his kids. So I am allowed to attend sports functions, joint birthday parties and similar functions. And he doesn’t tear me down in front of the kids. Although my GF’s ex does at time impose on our time, its not too bothersome. If you feel that you would be at the mercy of the ex’s schedule, it could become a point of contention in the future. Since you are reading this group, I’m sure you are finding all sorts of good ways to motivate and discipline children. A couple of things to remember: – They don’t always disobey or act out because they are bad or spiteful. They just don’t know any better. Teach them. You’d be surprised how receptive they are. – Be prepared to get angry. I’m a mild mannered passive person, and sometimes they just get to me. Find a way to deal with it. Good luck. — Bill Poitras
Response:
That little peice of paper makes some people think that
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