Pure Parents

Question:

> There is absolutely no way I would ever use violence to discipline a child. > Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent–it means that reasoning > power has failed.  Besides, what do you do when the kid starts hitting back? > There are people who say, "Violence never solved anything."  Ha! > Violence has settled more issues than dang near anything else in > history.  That does not mean that I think violence is *good*.  I have > the unpopular view that violence, while regrettable, has it’s place, > whether dealings are between humans or nations.

Oh, it has its place all right.  It can stop a behavior but doesn’t actually fix anything. > Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves > > stress.  What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood > > vessel one fine day? > I’d rather you didn’t let misfortunes and inconveniences get under your skin > in the first place  :) > I’m just drawn that way…

Maybe you need a better paintbrush…

Response:

A > quick association of very minor pain to unwanted behavior is easily > established, however.  Uses hard-wired pain-avoidance genes to put a > stop to that behavior.

While many dog owners will disagree, I don’t equate dogs with  humans.  I do agree that swatting achild can be a method to stop the immediate misbehavior, but a side effect of that method is that instead of teaching respect and discipline, it gives the child fear and hate of the parent.  And once again, what do you do when the kid is too big to hit? > I’m not so sure it worked all that well.  Look at all the examples of > bad parenting – now think about the role model. > I can’t agree – all my anecdotal evidence (people I know who were > raised the same way I was) points the other way.  That is, my friends > who were spanked are without exceptions good parents with good > children who yes, also got spanked when the need arose.  I have > personal knowledge of many parents who abhore violence that the > thought of smacking a kid who have raised some perfect monsters.  I > know there is evidence both ways.  My gut tells me that spanking is > fine.

I was spanked as a child and grew up hating my dad behind it.  Violence serves the parent, it doesn’t serve the child.  I would never hit a child except if it was a teen with an adult body and mindset (who I didn’t know) and then only in self-defense.  More likely, I would just restrain them (Aikido training). > Physical punishment I personally find replsive.  it certainly is > criminal if it happens between adults, why should it be any less > criminal if it happens between an adult and a child.  Was it "for > their own good"? > The state puts people in prison and puts them on chain gangs, etc, as > ‘physical punishment’ for their misdeeds.  Some even put people to > death.  The state stands in loco parentis, in my opinion, when it > comes to maintaining a safe society for the law-abiding citizens. > That’s hardly criminal action by the state, unless you believe also > that criminals should not be locked up.

Prison guards don’t beat the inmates, though.  That’s called torture and is against federal law.  I’m not saying torture in prison doesn’t happen; it does, just that it’s illegal.  And I’m against the death penalty, too–too many innocent people framed by overzealous prosecutors. > By the same token, parents correct that child’s aberrant behavior by > direct physical punishment, and it serves the same purpose, especially > in a young child who is not capable yet of understanding a detailed > lecture on morality, rights, and duty to society.

ITA a toddler isn’t capable of understanding lectures of acceptable behavior, but I also maintain that whupping on a child is unacceptable and incompetent as a remedy. <snip> I mean that bad social skills (like driving as if you > own the road with no regard for anyone but yourself) are generally a > good indicator of what kind of parents they are, if indeed they are > parents.

I would opine that these people were raised by parents who wouldn’t discipline their children or teach them how to behave in society.  You can teach a child these things without smacking them around IMHO. > > > Then again, maybe some people are just happier when > > > they have something to complain about. > > I know I certainly am.  Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves > > stress.  What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood > > vessel one fine day? > I use other constructive methods to reduce stress.  I find hitting > that little white ball deep into the woods a great stress reliever. > I am on the road seven days a week.  No time for such things.  My > stress reliever is here on r.t.a.

An excellent idea, Bill.

Response:

> There is absolutely no way I would ever use violence to discipline a child. > Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent–it means that reasoning > power has failed.  Besides, what do you do when the kid starts hitting back?

There are people who say, "Violence never solved anything."  Ha! Violence has settled more issues than dang near anything else in history.  That does not mean that I think violence is *good*.  I have the unpopular view that violence, while regrettable, has it’s place, whether dealings are between humans or nations. > Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves > stress.  What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood > vessel one fine day? > I’d rather you didn’t let misfortunes and inconveniences get under your skin > in the first place  :)

I’m just drawn that way… Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Response:

> It takes all kinds.  I don’t think bad parents are created – I think > they started out as bad humans.

Honestly, I don’t know.  What I was hoping to communicate, however, was my belief that yes, bad ‘humans’ generally are not any better parents. > How about a rolled-up newspaper > across the hindquarters, followed by showing puppy where he should do > his bidness? > You think parenting and dog rearing should be managed the same way? > Well shoot – let’s just put them in little cages in the hold.

No, but I do think that puppies and small children have about the same attention span and level of mental acuity relative to an adult of the same species.  What I mean is that ‘explaining’ why screaming in public is not a Good Thing to a small child has about the same effect as ‘explaining’ to a puppy why they should not poop on the rug.  A quick association of very minor pain to unwanted behavior is easily established, however.  Uses hard-wired pain-avoidance genes to put a stop to that behavior. > I’m not so sure it worked all that well.  Look at all the examples of > bad parenting – now think about the role model.

I can’t agree – all my anecdotal evidence (people I know who were raised the same way I was) points the other way.  That is, my friends who were spanked are without exceptions good parents with good children who yes, also got spanked when the need arose.  I have personal knowledge of many parents who abhore violence that the thought of smacking a kid who have raised some perfect monsters.  I know there is evidence both ways.  My gut tells me that spanking is fine. > Physical punishment I personally find replsive.  it certainly is > criminal if it happens between adults, why should it be any less > criminal if it happens between an adult and a child.  Was it "for > their own good"?

The state puts people in prison and puts them on chain gangs, etc, as ‘physical punishment’ for their misdeeds.  Some even put people to death.  The state stands in loco parentis, in my opinion, when it comes to maintaining a safe society for the law-abiding citizens. That’s hardly criminal action by the state, unless you believe also that criminals should not be locked up. By the same token, parents correct that child’s aberrant behavior by direct physical punishment, and it serves the same purpose, especially in a young child who is not capable yet of understanding a detailed lecture on morality, rights, and duty to society. > I’m working in Orange County, CA this week.  The two-mile drive to > work is a real experience.  Lots of very expensive cars zooming in and > out of traffic, no turn signals, phones planted firmly on ears, speeds > about 20 mph over the limit on side-streets.  And it’s not just one or > two of them, it’s all of them.  Red lights mean you get another 6 or 7 > cars through the light before you really, really, have to stop.  If > your car costs more than $50,000 USD, you can park sideways across > three parking spots in the tight little cramped parking lots they have > here.  I have little doubt that these are the parents who I am > referring to in their parental capacity.  All about ‘me’ to hell with > society. > No doubt – but then again, how do you know that this behavior is > exclusive to parents?

Oh, I don’t!  I mean that bad social skills (like driving as if you own the road with no regard for anyone but yourself) are generally a good indicator of what kind of parents they are, if indeed they are parents. > > Then again, maybe some people are just happier when > > they have something to complain about. > I know I certainly am.  Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves > stress.  What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood > vessel one fine day? > I use other constructive methods to reduce stress.  I find hitting > that little white ball deep into the woods a great stress reliever.

I am on the road seven days a week.  No time for such things.  My stress reliever is here on r.t.a. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Response:

>You know what I find interesting is that whenever I hang around Asian babies, >toddlers, and other children, my ears are routinely spared any abuse at all. >I really don’t have any working theories as to why this is.  It’s just that, I >first, brace for sonic impact when I see the child…but then, I hear no noise. >It’s amazing.

except for singaporian babies……cry like banshees, later they grow up to be just as loud and crass…….

Response:

> > > You don’t have kids, do you? >    No thank goodness. But if I did I wouldnt take them flying. > Sure just lock them in a closet.  Don’t forget the muffle so their screams > won’t bother the neighbors.

  I will try Not to forget – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > > > know > > > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > > > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > > > Blue, with > > > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing > very > > > little to > > > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax > that > > > sat so close to it,. > > > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > > > into one of > > > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > > > his offensive > > > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > > > getting the > > > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > > > this. > > > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > > > special mask for > > > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the > infant, > > > it would > > > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > > > anyway at all. > > > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > I agree that screaming babies are the worst – and parents develop a > special sort of deafness that makes them not seem to hear it whenever > it would be inconvenient for them – but I’ve been through this fight > on r.t.a. before and I lost!  The solution is earplugs or headphones > for you, not a muffler for the kid. > Although frankly, the thought of duct tape, cling wrap, and cargo > holds for crying babies make me smile a bit inside… > Bwahahahaha! > BTW, parents who are immune to babies piercing screams are also often > not able to SMELL the little pooper’s special qualities, either.  Only > the rest of the plane is aware of Junior’s lumpy surprise. > Best Regards, > Bill Mattocks

Urban myth – as a father and grandfather I have never been able to immunize my hearing or sense of smell.  In fact, my wife used to tell me that a mother can hear her baby cry even before the crying starts. I also firmly believe, even in the absence of real data, just multiple anecdotes (if Tauger can do it, so can I), that parents who appear to be immune from the crying of their infant/child are not – but rather have adopted the best strategy to curtail the event by not reacting to it.  If you don’t reinforce a behavior, it soon stops – well, at least that’s the operant conditioning theory. Maybe these parents know more about what works than non-parents give them credit for.  Then again, maybe some people are just happier when they have something to complain about. js

Response:

> You don’t have kids, do you? >    No thank goodness. But if I did I wouldnt take them flying.

Why not? it’s not that bad….. My son is been flying since he was 6 months old. he never made a noise during the trip. he’s 10 now and I do need to tell him to turn down the game boy in the plane. Kenny

Response:

> Urban myth – as a father and grandfather I have never been able to > immunize my hearing or sense of smell.  In fact, my wife used to tell > me that a mother can hear her baby cry even before the crying starts.

I believe that *some* parents are tuned in to what Junior is up to. Some are, um, less so. > I also firmly believe, even in the absence of real data, just multiple > anecdotes (if Tauger can do it, so can I), that parents who appear to > be immune from the crying of their infant/child are not – but rather > have adopted the best strategy to curtail the event by not reacting to > it.  If you don’t reinforce a behavior, it soon stops – well, at least > that’s the operant conditioning theory.

Yes, if your puppy poops on the rug, you should ignore it, so as not to reinforce that bad behavior.  How about a rolled-up newspaper across the hindquarters, followed by showing puppy where he should do his bidness? Funny how times change.  My dad’s idea of dealing with crying, carrying on, misbehaving, etc, was a sharp crack on the ass, administered immediately and in public.  Amazing how well it worked. By today’s ‘enlightened’ views, he’d have been a criminal for such behavior. > Maybe these parents know more about what works than non-parents give > them credit for.

Perhaps some do.  Or, what I suspect is more likely, some of these seemingly non-attentive parents are actually deeply concerned about raising their children correctly, but they’re being horribly misled by the latest psycho-babble about child-rearing.  That would be maybe 10% of them.  The rest are just complete and utter selfish morons.  They raise kids like they drive cars – badly. I’m working in Orange County, CA this week.  The two-mile drive to work is a real experience.  Lots of very expensive cars zooming in and out of traffic, no turn signals, phones planted firmly on ears, speeds about 20 mph over the limit on side-streets.  And it’s not just one or two of them, it’s all of them.  Red lights mean you get another 6 or 7 cars through the light before you really, really, have to stop.  If your car costs more than $50,000 USD, you can park sideways across three parking spots in the tight little cramped parking lots they have here.  I have little doubt that these are the parents who I am referring to in their parental capacity.  All about ‘me’ to hell with society. > Then again, maybe some people are just happier when > they have something to complain about.

I know I certainly am.  Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves stress.  What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood vessel one fine day? Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Response:

> > Urban myth – as a father and grandfather I have never been able to > immunize my hearing or sense of smell.  In fact, my wife used to tell > me that a mother can hear her baby cry even before the crying starts. > I believe that *some* parents are tuned in to what Junior is up to. > Some are, um, less so.

It takes all kinds.  I don’t think bad parents are created – I think they started out as bad humans. > I also firmly believe, even in the absence of real data, just multiple > anecdotes (if Tauger can do it, so can I), that parents who appear to > be immune from the crying of their infant/child are not – but rather > have adopted the best strategy to curtail the event by not reacting to > it.  If you don’t reinforce a behavior, it soon stops – well, at least > that’s the operant conditioning theory. > Yes, if your puppy poops on the rug, you should ignore it, so as not > to reinforce that bad behavior.  

Not exactly what I meant – but pretty funny. > How about a rolled-up newspaper > across the hindquarters, followed by showing puppy where he should do > his bidness?

You think parenting and dog rearing should be managed the same way? Well shoot – let’s just put them in little cages in the hold. > Funny how times change.  My dad’s idea of dealing with crying, > carrying on, misbehaving, etc, was a sharp crack on the ass, > administered immediately and in public.  Amazing how well it worked.

I’m not so sure it worked all that well.  Look at all the examples of bad parenting – now think about the role model. > By today’s ‘enlightened’ views, he’d have been a criminal for such > behavior.

Physical punishment I personally find replsive.  it certainly is criminal if it happens between adults, why should it be any less criminal if it happens between an adult and a child.  Was it "for their own good"? > Maybe these parents know more about what works than non-parents give > them credit for. > Perhaps some do.  Or, what I suspect is more likely, some of these > seemingly non-attentive parents are actually deeply concerned about > raising their children correctly, but they’re being horribly misled by > the latest psycho-babble about child-rearing.  That would be maybe 10% > of them.  The rest are just complete and utter selfish morons.  They > raise kids like they drive cars – badly.

That describes 90% of the adult population irrespective of their parental status. > I’m working in Orange County, CA this week.  The two-mile drive to > work is a real experience.  Lots of very expensive cars zooming in and > out of traffic, no turn signals, phones planted firmly on ears, speeds > about 20 mph over the limit on side-streets.  And it’s not just one or > two of them, it’s all of them.  Red lights mean you get another 6 or 7 > cars through the light before you really, really, have to stop.  If > your car costs more than $50,000 USD, you can park sideways across > three parking spots in the tight little cramped parking lots they have > here.  I have little doubt that these are the parents who I am > referring to in their parental capacity.  All about ‘me’ to hell with > society.

No doubt – but then again, how do you know that this behavior is exclusive to parents? > Then again, maybe some people are just happier when > they have something to complain about. > I know I certainly am.  Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves > stress.  What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood > vessel one fine day?

I use other constructive methods to reduce stress.  I find hitting that little white ball deep into the woods a great stress reliever. > Best Regards, > Bill Mattocks

Happy travels js

Response:

> Funny how times change.  My dad’s idea of dealing with crying, > carrying on, misbehaving, etc, was a sharp crack on the ass, > administered immediately and in public.  Amazing how well it worked. > By today’s ‘enlightened’ views, he’d have been a criminal for such > behavior.

There is absolutely no way I would ever use violence to discipline a child. Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent–it means that reasoning power has failed.  Besides, what do you do when the kid starts hitting back? <snip> Complaining is great good fun, and it relieves > stress.  What, you want me keep it all inside and just burst a blood > vessel one fine day?

I’d rather you didn’t let misfortunes and inconveniences get under your skin in the first place  :)

Response:

> You don’t have kids, do you? >    No thank goodness. But if I did I wouldnt take them flying.

Sure just lock them in a closet.  Don’t forget the muffle so their screams won’t bother the neighbors. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > > know > > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > > Blue, with > > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > > little to > > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > > sat so close to it,. > > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > > into one of > > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > > his offensive > > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > > getting the > > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > > this. > > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > > special mask for > > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > > it would > > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > > anyway at all. > > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

> I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_

I agree that screaming babies are the worst – and parents develop a special sort of deafness that makes them not seem to hear it whenever it would be inconvenient for them – but I’ve been through this fight on r.t.a. before and I lost!  The solution is earplugs or headphones for you, not a muffler for the kid. Although frankly, the thought of duct tape, cling wrap, and cargo holds for crying babies make me smile a bit inside… Bwahahahaha! BTW, parents who are immune to babies piercing screams are also often not able to SMELL the little pooper’s special qualities, either.  Only the rest of the plane is aware of Junior’s lumpy surprise. Best Regards, Bill Mattocks

Response:

> It’s those 3-to-5 YO’s that tend to scream the most particularly > when they don’t get their way for whatever reason.

I’d say 2-4.  They don’t call them the Terrible Twos for nothing. Casey

Response:

You know what I find interesting is that whenever I hang around Asian babies, toddlers, and other children, my ears are routinely spared any abuse at all. I really don’t have any working theories as to why this is.  It’s just that, I first, brace for sonic impact when I see the child…but then, I hear no noise. It’s amazing. — Los Angeles, CA – http://www.base-ix.com/~dlombard/ Base-IX Communications, coming 2004

Response:

> You don’t have kids, do you?

   No thank goodness. But if I did I wouldnt take them flying. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > Blue, with > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > little to > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > sat so close to it,. > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > into one of > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > his offensive > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > getting the > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > this. > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > special mask for > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > it would > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > anyway at all. > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

> usually small kids cry on descent (ear blockages).  It’s those 3-to-5 YO’s > that tend to scream the most particularly when they don’t get their way for > whatever reason.  Most of the time smaller kids only cry when they have a > REASON to cry. (wet, hungry, etc etc)

There is always a REASON when someone (kid or otherwise) does something.  No one does anything for no reason.  No apparent reason, maybe, but not for no reason (is that even grammatical?). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Last year, I flew from Hong Kong back to New Hampshire. There were 25 two > months old babies on the plane ( a group of people went to China and adopt > kids). You should see the look on our faces ( the other 300 passengers ). > We > are bracing for a 15 hours screaming flight. > To all our suprise, those babies were quiet all the way. May be they don’t > want the pilot to turn the plane around and head back to China. > Kenny > > I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > > know > > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > > Blue, with > > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > > little to > > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > > sat so close to it,. > > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > > into one of > > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > > his offensive > > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > > getting the > > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > > this. > > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > > special mask for > > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > > it would > > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > > anyway at all. > > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

> Last year, I flew from Hong Kong back to New Hampshire. There were 25 two > months old babies on the plane ( a group of people went to China and adopt > kids). You should see the look on our faces ( the other 300 passengers ). We > are bracing for a 15 hours screaming flight. > To all our suprise, those babies were quiet all the way. May be they don’t > want the pilot to turn the plane around and head back to China. > Kenny

I flew with my babies often when they were about 6 weeks old and on — we never had a single incident of prolonged crying — if you take care of their ears and the baby is not colicky then most don’t cry for extended periods – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > Blue, with > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > little to > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > sat so close to it,. > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > into one of > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > his offensive > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > getting the > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > this. > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > special mask for > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > it would > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > anyway at all. > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

You don’t have kids, do you?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > Blue, with > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > little to > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > sat so close to it,. > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > into one of > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > his offensive > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > getting the > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > this. > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > special mask for > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > it would > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > anyway at all. > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

usually small kids cry on descent (ear blockages).  It’s those 3-to-5 YO’s that tend to scream the most particularly when they don’t get their way for whatever reason.  Most of the time smaller kids only cry when they have a REASON to cry. (wet, hungry, etc etc)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Last year, I flew from Hong Kong back to New Hampshire. There were 25 two > months old babies on the plane ( a group of people went to China and adopt > kids). You should see the look on our faces ( the other 300 passengers ). We > are bracing for a 15 hours screaming flight. > To all our suprise, those babies were quiet all the way. May be they don’t > want the pilot to turn the plane around and head back to China. > Kenny > I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > Blue, with > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > little to > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > sat so close to it,. > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > into one of > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > his offensive > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > getting the > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > this. > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > special mask for > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > it would > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > anyway at all. > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

Response:

I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I know I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin Blue, with this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very little to rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that sat so close to it,. I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid into one of the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate his offensive noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but getting the parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on this. In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a special mask for this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, it would completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in anyway at all. If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

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> Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > Blue, with this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent > doing very little to rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really > pittied the pax that sat so close to it,. > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid into > one of the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to > isolate his offensive noise from those sitting close to him. The pax > beside me agreed, but getting the parent to agree would be a major > problem. I welcome any feedback on this.

Are you posting from the plane now? miguel — Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu Site remodeled 10-Sept-2003: Hundreds of new photos, easier navigation.

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Last year, I flew from Hong Kong back to New Hampshire. There were 25 two months old babies on the plane ( a group of people went to China and adopt kids). You should see the look on our faces ( the other 300 passengers ). We are bracing for a 15 hours screaming flight. To all our suprise, those babies were quiet all the way. May be they don’t want the pilot to turn the plane around and head back to China. Kenny

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > Blue, with > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > little to > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > sat so close to it,. > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > into one of > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > his offensive > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > getting the > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > this. > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > special mask for > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > it would > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > anyway at all. > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

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> In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > special mask for this situation, when if the mask is placed over the > mouth of the infant, it would completely muffle out all the noise > without suffocating the child in anyway at all.

Besides the obvious technical problems, as the baby muffler would be rather large to be effective, the only type of parent who would use one would be the type of parent who has already tried her/his best to have a quiet child.  The really obnoxious parent would never buy one. Casey

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I know this topic has been covered before, but I have and idea that I > know > I’m going to cop a lot of flak for, anyhow here goes:_ > Its the typical scenario, travelling from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin > Blue, with > this child persistantly crying and screaming, with the parent doing very > little to > rectify the situation. It was so bad that i really pittied the pax that > sat so close to it,. > I suggested to the pax beside me, that the parent should take the kid > into one of > the aircrafts toilets, to at least calm the child down and to isolate > his offensive > noise from those sitting close to him. The pax beside me agreed, but > getting the > parent to agree would be a major problem. I welcome any feedback on > this. > In the meantime a friend and I are desperately trying to invent a > special mask for > this situation, when if the mask is placed over the mouth of the infant, > it would > completely muffle out all the noise without suffocating the child in > anyway at all. > If this works, I will can retire a rich person.

I agree that a parent who is not trying to cope is highly annoying BUT  most planes only have a couple of toilets for the entire coach class — I sure don’t want to have to stand in long lines while someone monopolizes a toilet to isolate a child, nurse a baby, make love or anything else other than a quick trip to do what needs doing there

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