Pure Parents

Question:

> Oh, god, I saw myself when you were describing this…  My 2 yo does that > stiff as a board thing and SCREAMS, too in situations like that…

It is so cute when they do this, but I don’t dare laugh (even though I’m totally busting up inside).  :) > wants to go play and I want him to sit still) Usually I just let him do his > own thing, it depends on the situation.  I think being in a library full of > story time listenin’ moms and kids would have been agonizing for me if my > son was running wild…  I get REALLY self conscious if I think I am being > judged.

Whilst I knew that I was being judged by some of the people there, I really wasn’t too self-conscious about it.  He wasn’t really carrying on so much as I made it sound at first (retrospection helps), just exploring something new and really having his same good old time, being his outgoing self.  Why should I dampen that.  Before I’d do that, we’d just leave.  But it was really cool with everyone, anyway.  No real scowls. >  I probably would have just left in that situation.

I did think about this when it first started (just get up and walk out). And you know, to tell you the truth, this would have been worse in terms of the self-consciousness of the situation rather than what I did, which was to let him do his thing (within reason), which again, to me as the parent, he never really crossed that fine line between exploring and a raging tantrum. AJPDLA

Response:

> so if you are disrupting an event — well to hell with everyone else and > they can just ‘kiss your ass’ because after all YOU are comfortable with > disrupting other people’s storytime? > you don’t have to be punitive to the child who can’t behavior > appropriately for the situation — but a civilized person removes that > child so he doesn’t interupt others. > I don’t care if the woman at the opera with the 6  mos old baby feels > ‘comfortable’ with the disruption he causes — or if she thinks people who > judge her should kiss her ass — I just want to hear the tenor.  the right > of other little kids to hear the story shouldn’t have less respect.

It must truly suck to live in "your world."  Do you even have children?  You come off as being so hateful – from what I’ve seen of you so far – that I would truly hate to be your child, live in "your world." Where do you to the opera?  The ‘hood?  Anyone who’s anyone doesn’t bring their child (infant or otherwise) to an opera.  That’s a totally lost argument to try to equate opera with storytime functions.  How lame can you get? You look for "trouble" where there is none; "violations" where there are none. If you can’t add anything viable or constructive to the conversation (talk apples and apples) then be gone with yourself.  Stop wasting bandwith. AJPDLA

Response:

> No, if I thought my son was being disruptive, rather than just wandering and > exploring a little, I would leave immediately.  Before I realized that my > son doesn’t have to be perfect all the time, I would have left even if he > was not being disruptive, just because I wouldn’t want to take the chance. > ‘Tis a fine line to walk, but I’m learning…  ;o)  ~Bethany

Actually, in retrospect – and in using all of the replies to my original posting as a "barometer of feeling" on what went on, Noah wasn’t really BEING disruptive.  The storyteller never had to stop the story for him and just went on reading as he was doing his "thing."  He was wandering around the room, exploring the new surroundings.  And, believe me, had it really gotten to the point that I felt that Noah was being disruptive, we’d have been out of there right quick.  I have, as a father in a "mother’s world" absolutely no problem whatsoever in asserting myself as the parent of OUR child.  ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM.  I just don’t feel, AS the parent, that Noah took it to THAT point. AJPDLA

Response:

> But there’s a huge difference between a 6 month old crying at an opera, and > the situation in the first post in this thread of a two year old wandering > about during his first outing in a 2 year old’s story group. > Yes, during an opera an infant should not be present and should be removed. > But during the story group, there should be nothing wrong with the child > exploring during his first time.  Dad can gradually accustom him to the > group and the proper conduct during this time.

LOL.  Not in this lady’s "world," I guess. But, then again, I don’t go to operas. AJPDLA

Response:

Bethany rambled, >> Oh, god, I saw myself when you were describing this… My 2 yo does that > stiff as a board thing and SCREAMS, too in situations like that…  (when he > wants to go play and I want him to sit still) Usually I just let him do his > own thing, it depends on the situation.  I think being in a library full of > story time listenin’ moms and kids would have been agonizing for me if my > son was running wild…  I get REALLY self conscious if I think I am being > judged.  I probably would have just left in that situation.  I am getting > better at this, though- more self assured and now <usually> I realize that > if they want to judge me they can kiss my ass..  I remember when my son was > 1, thinking what a piece of cake he was to deal with- ha!  That

changed… And Louisa retorted, >so if you are disrupting an event — well to hell with everyone else and >they can just ‘kiss your ass’ because after all YOU are comfortable with >disrupting >other people’s storytime?

No, if I thought my son was being disruptive, rather than just wandering and exploring a little, I would leave immediately.  Before I realized that my son doesn’t have to be perfect all the time, I would have left even if he was not being disruptive, just because I wouldn’t want to take the chance. ‘Tis a fine line to walk, but I’m learning…  ;o)  ~Bethany – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->you don’t have to be punitive to the child who can’t behavior >appropriately for the situation — but a civilized person removes that >child so he doesn’t interupt others. >I don’t care if the woman at the opera with the 6  mos old baby feels >’comfortable’ with the disruption he causes — or if she thinks people who >judge her should kiss her ass — I just want to hear the tenor.  the right >of other little kids to hear the story shouldn’t have less respect.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Well, you know — and what goes around comes around– just as if I’ve told > some people in this NG in my replies to them, I am now reaping what I’ve > sown with Noah. > I pretty much let him do what he wants to do at home, within reason, and he > never really sits still all day long.  So for me to really expect him to do > so right off the bat at some storytime function, well, it’s pretty much > ludicrous.  So now, we start here, we start now, and the extra work needs to > be done to see if he wants to do something like this, storytime.  If he > wants to do it, he’ll get the chance.  If he pretty much doesn’t want to do > it, I won’t force him to do so.  We’ll just keep it at home.  However, we > wouldn’t have learned this had we never gone.  :)  He does like the new > "musical chair" game we play at home, starting today.  I will try to > incorporate this into the storytime next week and we’ll see how "freeze" > plays itself out. > AJPDLA

Two year olds are not social at all unless beaten into it. If your two year old kid was dancing around while the others were not then he was the only one who was not beaten into it or in terror of that for being who he is! Be glad!! Who in the world imagines two year olds can understand group dynamics, they barely get it that THEY’RE here yet! In Victorian times two-year olds were beaten as hard as necessary like pack animals into acting like adults and those people when grown  were nearly all neurotically insane by modern standards!! Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I think maybe he is just a little too young to be expected to sit still > for > too long.  Yes some kids get it earlier and some later.  My boy couldn’t > sit > still at something like that for anything, and I have to say he still > finds > sitting still a bit of an effort.  My daughter on the other hand just fits > into any situation and behaves appropriately.  I think taking him to the > library and reading to him yourself is a good idea.  I hope that the story > teller is aiming her stories at the right level,  short and action filled, > the children being able to join in the actions are best.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> mElmo wrote….  (snipped) > >I kind of let Noah do what he wanted to do there, didn’t really know how to > >discipline him (or if I should have anyway at the time there) in front of > >everyone, especially women, I dunno.  Every time he’d (Noah) come close > >enough, I’d grab him and sit him back down in front of me, but he would > then > >go – you know – stiff as a board and start screaming and then I’d kind of > >let him go back to his other thing. > Oh, god, I saw myself when you were describing this…  My 2 yo does that > stiff as a board thing and SCREAMS, too in situations like that… (when he > wants to go play and I want him to sit still) Usually I just let him do his > own thing, it depends on the situation.  I think being in a library full of > story time listenin’ moms and kids would have been agonizing for me if my > son was running wild…  I get REALLY self conscious if I think I am being > judged.  I probably would have just left in that situation.  I am getting > better at this, though- more self assured and now <usually> I realize that > if they want to judge me they can kiss my ass..  I remember when my son was > 1, thinking what a piece of cake he was to deal with- ha!  That changed… > so if you are disrupting an event — well to hell with everyone else and > they can just ‘kiss your ass’ because after all YOU are comfortable with > disrupting > other people’s storytime? > you don’t have to be punitive to the child who can’t behavior > appropriately for the situation — but a civilized person removes that > child so he doesn’t interupt others. > I don’t care if the woman at the opera with the 6  mos old baby feels > ‘comfortable’ with the disruption he causes — or if she thinks people who > judge her should kiss her ass — I just want to hear the tenor.  the right > of other little kids to hear the story shouldn’t have less respect.

But there’s a huge difference between a 6 month old crying at an opera, and the situation in the first post in this thread of a two year old wandering about during his first outing in a 2 year old’s story group. Yes, during an opera an infant should not be present and should be removed. But during the story group, there should be nothing wrong with the child exploring during his first time.  Dad can gradually accustom him to the group and the proper conduct during this time.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > mElmo wrote….  (snipped) >I kind of let Noah do what he wanted to do there, didn’t really know how to >discipline him (or if I should have anyway at the time there) in front of >everyone, especially women, I dunno.  Every time he’d (Noah) come close >enough, I’d grab him and sit him back down in front of me, but he would > then >go – you know – stiff as a board and start screaming and then I’d kind of >let him go back to his other thing. > Oh, god, I saw myself when you were describing this…  My 2 yo does that > stiff as a board thing and SCREAMS, too in situations like that…  (when he > wants to go play and I want him to sit still) Usually I just let him do his > own thing, it depends on the situation.  I think being in a library full of > story time listenin’ moms and kids would have been agonizing for me if my > son was running wild…  I get REALLY self conscious if I think I am being > judged.  I probably would have just left in that situation.  I am getting > better at this, though- more self assured and now <usually> I realize that > if they want to judge me they can kiss my ass..  I remember when my son was > 1, thinking what a piece of cake he was to deal with- ha!  That changed…

so if you are disrupting an event — well to hell with everyone else and they can just ‘kiss your ass’ because after all YOU are comfortable with disrupting other people’s storytime? you don’t have to be punitive to the child who can’t behavior appropriately for the situation — but a civilized person removes that child so he doesn’t interupt others. I don’t care if the woman at the opera with the 6  mos old baby feels ‘comfortable’ with the disruption he causes — or if she thinks people who judge her should kiss her ass — I just want to hear the tenor.  the right of other little kids to hear the story shouldn’t have less respect.

Response:

mElmo wrote….  (snipped) >I kind of let Noah do what he wanted to do there, didn’t really know how to >discipline him (or if I should have anyway at the time there) in front of >everyone, especially women, I dunno.  Every time he’d (Noah) come close >enough, I’d grab him and sit him back down in front of me, but he would then >go – you know – stiff as a board and start screaming and then I’d kind of >let him go back to his other thing.

Oh, god, I saw myself when you were describing this…  My 2 yo does that stiff as a board thing and SCREAMS, too in situations like that…  (when he wants to go play and I want him to sit still) Usually I just let him do his own thing, it depends on the situation.  I think being in a library full of story time listenin’ moms and kids would have been agonizing for me if my son was running wild…  I get REALLY self conscious if I think I am being judged.  I probably would have just left in that situation.  I am getting better at this, though- more self assured and now <usually> I realize that if they want to judge me they can kiss my ass..  I remember when my son was 1, thinking what a piece of cake he was to deal with- ha!  That changed…  I guess I could have just gotten up and >walked out of the room with him and taken him right home (really wanted to a >couple of times), but he’s supposed to get out and see other kids; right? I >can’t keep him sheltered at home for the rest of his life for fear that he >won’t have the social interaction we believe he needs.

I have this problem, too.  Playing other kids once in a while is not enough for him.  My son is *very* social, and I feel like I am hindering him.  I am not worried about him being socialized- that totally comes natural for him. I want him do play with other kids because he loves it so much. Unfortunately my neighborhood isn’t filled with SAH moms (or dads) and 2 yr olds- I think I’m the only one…  And I don’t have car during the day… This is why we started daycare in the first place – which is working out just fine now. >I’m just rambling here, yes. >But I truly think that there are two sides to the perverbial coin here in >terms of whether you put your son or daughter into a social daycare setting >right away at a very early age as opposed to later if not ever at all.  We >are the "other" side of that coin, the one that is having to play "catch up" >in the way of socialization of our toddler into a group of other kids. This >leads me to think hard of having the second child – when we have him or >her – go to daycare a little earlier.  I can stay at home and raise the two >just fine; but is just seems, to me, that the benefits of going earlier seem >to outweigh anything else at this point.

I don’t know if I agree with that- but like I said, my son (never in daycare, rarely around other kids)  is naturally a socialable person so I haven’t had to worry about it.  Your son sounds pretty outgoing if he was initiating play with the other kids, and trying to be the center of attention…  :o) I don’t have much experience with a shy kid, or any other kids for that matter…  so my opinion is just from my experiences. I don’t like the idea of a younger child in daycare because they can’t say if something’s going on.  Plus, that time you have with them when they’re tiny is priceless.  Much more important than being around other kids. Another point- if you have two kids, they can play with each other. Let us know how the next storytime goes…  ~Bethany – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Again, I wasn’t really embarrassed, just a little confused as to what to do >at the time.  He wasn’t really throwing a tantrum, just wanted to do what HE >wanted to do at that time.  Ah, well. >Thanks for listening. >AJPDLA

Response:

AJPDLA wrote <snipped some stuff> >Storytime starts and Noah immediately >>(typical 2 year old – although he was

the only one in a group>of 2 year olds!!!!), wanting to walk around the room, check out the other>kids, wanting to play, falling down to the ground, grinning at everyone, >wanting to be the center of attention, >while all the other kids sat>patiently >listening to the storyteller in their >mother’s/caregiver’s lap.

I have had this internal argument over situations like this.  DO *I* as the parent of this child  try to force him to act like everybody else, thus stiffling his individuality, OR do I let him do his "thing" even though he is disturbing others, and obviously not behaving appropriately for the situation. What are your goals with taking him to story time?  Do you want him to learn to sit quietly and listen to the story?  If so, then letting him have the run of the place is taking ten steps backward.  Cause he enjoyed misbehaving for a time, and you let him enjoy misbehaving.  (By misbehaving, I don’t mean being naughty — if he were throwing books off the shelves and being obnoxious, I’m sure you would have removed him)  So next time he’s going to remember the fun he had being the center of attention, instead of the joy of the story, and it’s going to be twice as hard to get him to sit still. >And, you know, I wasn’t really embarrassed about it – don’t really know >why – but still got those looks from some of the women there, just those>funny

looks that seem to say things like "Geez, what do they let that kid do>at home," or, "Does this guy ever spend time with his kid, the kid seems to>have the run of the place."  At least that’s what I was internalizing at the>time. And I spend ALL DAY with Noah, I’m the SAHF deal. No, REALLY … most Moms are thinking "WHEW!  I’m SO glad it’s not MY kid making a scene!" >I kind of let Noah do what he wanted to do there, didn’t really know how to >discipline him (or if I should have anyway at the time there) in front of >everyone, especially women, I dunno.  Every time he’d (Noah) come close >enough, I’d grab him and sit him back down in front of me, but he would then >go – you know – stiff as a board and start screaming and then I’d kind of>let

him go back to his other thing. So he DID have a tantrum, and he won … > I guess I could have just gotten up and >walked out of the room with him and taken him right home (really wanted to a >couple of times),

I am not intending to be unkind, I hope I am not coming across that way.  BUT I would have taken the child home, and said, " next time we can stay if you can sit still and listen — but it’s not OK to disturb everybody else so lets go home"  but he’s supposed to get out and see other kids; right?  I>can’t keep him sheltered at home for the rest of his life for fear that he>won’t have the social >interaction we believe he needs. You’re so right, they need the interaction to learn how to behave in social settings.  So you have to correct them when their behaviour is less than what you expect of them.   > This is why we>started daycare in the first place – which is working out just fine now. >I’m just rambling here, yes. >But I truly think that there are two sides to the perverbial coin here

in>terms of whether you put your son or daughter into a social daycare setting>right away at a very early age as opposed to later if not ever at all. We>are the "other" side of that coin, the one that is having to play "catch up">in the way of socialization of our toddler into a group of other kids. This >leads me to think hard of having the second child – when we have him or >her – go to daycare a little earlier.

Him or her will learn a lot from big brother the good, the bad AND the ugly  I can stay at home and raise the two >just fine; but is just seems, to me, that the benefits of going earlier seem >to outweigh anything else at this point. >Again, I wasn’t really embarrassed, just a little confused as to what to do>at

the time.  He wasn’t really throwing a tantrum, just wanted to do what HE>wanted to do at that time.  Ah, well. >Thanks for listening. >AJPDLA

I think it’s cool that you are the one to stay home.  My husband often thinks he could do a better job than I do on certain things, and he may be right.  You must be a very loving father to be willing to do that for your kids We’re all learning as we go.  Think mostly about what you want to teach your children in this particular situation.  Then go from there Krystal "Life isn’t measured by how many breaths we take but by how many moments that take our breath away" Eat the "treat" in my address to e-mail me.

Response:

I think maybe he is just a little too young to be expected to sit still for too long.  Yes some kids get it earlier and some later.  My boy couldn’t sit still at something like that for anything, and I have to say he still finds sitting still a bit of an effort.  My daughter on the other hand just fits into any situation and behaves appropriately.  I think taking him to the library and reading to him yourself is a good idea.  I hope that the story teller is aiming her stories at the right level,  short and action filled, the children being able to join in the actions are best. Some people are very intolerant, try not to let it worry you.  When my daughter was little, friends had a child of a similar age, but for them dad stayed home.  He found it very isolating, and we found that we could not get together to socialise the same way we would have if it had been two women. We chatted on the phone a bit, but when we met once for coffee,his wife felt somewhat threatened by it.  I wonder perhaps if you are having a similar experience. Annemarie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Took Noah for Storytime at the local library today.  Walked up the stairs > and into the room to about 14 other kids with their parents/caregivers (all > women) – what looks I got, some good, some indifferent (all leers and > jeers) – and took my seat. > Storytime starts and Noah immediately precedes to "do his thing", not > sitting still (typical 2 year old – although he was the only one in a group > of 2 year olds!!!!), wanting to walk around the room, check out the other > kids, wanting to play, falling down to the ground, grinning at everyone, > wanting to be the center of attention, while all the other kids sat > patiently listening to the storyteller in their mother’s/caregiver’s lap. > And, you know, I wasn’t really embarrassed about it – don’t really know > why – but still got those looks from some of the women there, just those > funny looks that seem to say things like "Geez, what do they let that kid do > at home," or, "Does this guy ever spend time with his kid, the kid seems to > have the run of the place."  At least that’s what I was internalizing at the > time.  And I spend ALL DAY with Noah, I’m the SAHF deal. > I kind of let Noah do what he wanted to do there, didn’t really know how to > discipline him (or if I should have anyway at the time there) in front of > everyone, especially women, I dunno.  Every time he’d (Noah) come close > enough, I’d grab him and sit him back down in front of me, but he would then > go – you know – stiff as a board and start screaming and then I’d kind of > let him go back to his other thing.  I guess I could have just gotten up and > walked out of the room with him and taken him right home (really wanted to a > couple of times), but he’s supposed to get out and see other kids; right? I > can’t keep him sheltered at home for the rest of his life for fear that he > won’t have the social interaction we believe he needs.  This is why we > started daycare in the first place – which is working out just fine now. > I’m just rambling here, yes. > But I truly think that there are two sides to the perverbial coin here in > terms of whether you put your son or daughter into a social daycare setting > right away at a very early age as opposed to later if not ever at all.  We > are the "other" side of that coin, the one that is having to play "catch up" > in the way of socialization of our toddler into a group of other kids. This > leads me to think hard of having the second child – when we have him or > her – go to daycare a little earlier.  I can stay at home and raise the two > just fine; but is just seems, to me, that the benefits of going earlier seem > to outweigh anything else at this point. > Again, I wasn’t really embarrassed, just a little confused as to what to do > at the time.  He wasn’t really throwing a tantrum, just wanted to do what HE > wanted to do at that time.  Ah, well. > Thanks for listening. > AJPDLA > P.S.  Our "What to Expect the Toddler Years" book doesn’t have a section on > "sitting still."  And I don’t >          really know if I’d classify this event as a tantrum or not.  It > wasn’t really a full-blown thing, just a >          typical toddler wanting to explore something new.  Yes, it was a > time to sit still and listen to a story, >          but short of causing a major scene and ruining everyone’s else’s > storytime, well, I haven’t seen >          something on what to do in this book either, yet.  LOL.  Ah, well. > P.S.S.  The storyteller lady in the beginning, when I first came in, told me > I looked familiar to her and I >             was tempted to say something like "well, if you mean if I’m the > one with the kid who’s always >             screaming in the shopping cart as we enter the store, yes, > that’s me."  Such a small town we live >             in.  But I politely said something else.  ROFLMAO.  But that’s > another thread.

Response:

I agree with Sharon’s advice completely.  My son NEVER was able to sit still at story time at the library.  Even when he was within the age range, he was just TOO curious and active.  The librarian was also a very strict lady (she still is) and I remember at the time wondering if she even LIKED little kids.  She did 5 stories (IMO at least 2 too many for 2 year olds) and had all sorts of storyboards and puppets and the like.  Well, DS was more curious about the puppets and kept getting up to see them, which annoyed the librarian no end…she kept saying that everyone could see them after story time was over and kept asking me to keep DS seated.  So we left.  Same as Sharon’s situation, DS loved being read to (still does) but, at home, curled up with me.  We tried story time a couple of other times as he got older but sitting still in a big room with lots of colorful props to investigate was just not for him.  As it happens, we have since found out that he has ADD, but that’s a different thread.  When he was 2-3, he was just better off running off his energy. Even in Gymboree, he never wanted to do what the rest of the group was doing…I keep hoping that means he will be a "leader" as he gets older instead of a "follower" LOL.   The funny thing is that he has always been fine in restaurants…I guess because there was nothing else he wanted to see.  DH and I always used to take turns walking him around while waiting for the food to come, and once it did he had no problem sitting.  But you have to do what is right for Noah…library storytime might not be it, and there is nothing wrong with that.  He can learn to socialize at the park or playground just as well.  Not all kids can sit quietly at 2!!! Marion——Tampamom to Louis(7) and Erica(almost 3) — Tomorrow is a mystery Yesterday is history Today is a gift…that’s why it is called "the present" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Took Noah for Storytime at the local library today.  Walked up the stairs > and into the room to about 14 other kids with their parents/caregivers >(all > women) – what looks I got, some good, some indifferent (all leers and > jeers) – and took my seat. >Ya mean you didn’t already know you’re a freak of nature???  ;-}  LOL > Storytime starts and Noah immediately precedes to "do his thing", not > sitting still (typical 2 year old – although he was the only one in a >group > of 2 year olds!!!!), wanting to walk around the room, check out the other > kids, wanting to play, falling down to the ground, grinning at everyone, > wanting to be the center of attention, while all the other kids sat > patiently listening to the storyteller in their mother’s/caregiver’s lap. >Don’t worry about it.  "Sit still" means the same thing to a 2 year old that >"dental exam" means to you.  (I was nice.  I edited which exam I originally >typed.  ;-})  Not something either of you think of fondly.  But something >you both have to learn to accept at some point.  Every mother in that room >who was worth her salt understood what was going on with Noah.  You can’t >spend your day worrying about what other people are thinking of you and how >you are raising your son.  Down that path lies madness, my friend.  He saw a >roomful of people nearly the same size as him and was thrilled!!  That is >all that was going on with him. >Call the library.  Ask them if they have a story time for younger children. >Ask them if they have a sing along time for younger children.  Ask them if >they know of any other programs in your town that are for children Noah’s >age.  See if you can find a play group that you would both be comfortable >attending.  (Playgroup around here is the kids playing and the SAHMs >yacking.  But we would be happy to include a SAHD.)  You might be surprised >what all there is for kids even in a town the size of a dime.  I live in >Indiana’s version of Mayberry.  And I was flabbergasted at what all there is >for small people around here.  (Nothing for the teen agers to do except >cruise Wal-Mart’s parking lot, but that’s another thread.)  Yes, he needs to >get out and be with other kids.  Yes, he needs to learn how to behave in >public.  But maybe a structured, sit down, and shhh story time isn’t his cup >of tea.  You can work your way up to that.  I think you, Noah and Mom going >to the library to read together is a great first step.  He may think that is >so cool that story time is a doable thing next time.  Then again, he might >see that room full of kids again and think it’s play time.  Who knows.  No >one really knows the mind of a 2 year old from one second to the next. >Oh, and it would have been fine for you to say politely, "I don’t think Noah >is in the mood to sit still.  We will try this another time" and then leave. >It was fine that you sat there.  All those children in that room were 2 >once.  All those mothers knew it took time for their children to learn how >to sit still and listen to a story.  I am sure they understood.  If I had >been there, I would have understood and happily explained to anyone who >didn’t.  I could have taken my DD to story time at the library when she was >2 (well my boss at the time might not have liked it) and she would have >listen intently.  My DS is 4.  There would have to be a talking dog reading >the story for him to sit and listen.  That just isn’t his thing.  He loves >to be read to!  But he loves to be read to when we are cuddled up together >at home alone.  If I took him to a room full of children to listen to a >story, he would want to play.  So we don’t do story time at the library. No >skin off his nose.  We get together with friends and play. >Sharon

Response:

I didn’t really know until the end who you were replying to, I tend to delete the messages after I read them.

> From reading other posts, it’s becoming quite obvious that you and I have > very different parenting styles but, hey, if one can’t learn from another, > what’s the point of sharing information.

There really is none. >It does sound like, in this > particular storytime, that the kids were either more used to the event, or > maybe their parents had better control of their attention.

Well, I don’t really know.  It was our first time.  It was also the first day of this 10-week session of storytime for everyone else.  Had they attended before?  Who knows? >That’s not > control in a bad sense like oppression, but parental control – more like > when you insist that your child hold your hand when crossing the street or > in a parking lot, or take a nap because they need one.

I have no problem insisting these things. >I heard some talk > show discussing when kids spread their "diaper contents" and the prob was > one parent saw it as a "natural" childhood thing (ie: no biggie, they’ll > grow out of it) and the other was quite upset about it and wanted it > stopped.  The host said that it is our job as parents to take some of these > "natural urges" and teach them which are appropriate for our particular > society (besides poop spreading is downright dangerous from a germ > standpoint).

Whatever. >As far as "kids being kids" I have a friend who I can no > longer be around because she refuses to have her kids behave in any social > situations – like at a restaurant.

I feel sad for you.  Reading the rest of your posting (I read it before cutting it to pieces as I am now, you sound like quite the militant parent. I feel you’re truly setting yourself up for total rebellious kids later in their lives.  I’d really like to be here in the next 10 years when you encounter much of the rebellion I speak of.  Yes, we do have very different parenting styles – no argument there. >Her kids (3&4) run wild around the > restaurant, play with their food, scream, etc.

This would be unacceptable to me, yes.  And it does not happen – and will never happen. >  On the other hand, my boys > know when we go to a sit-down restaurant that we sit fairly quietly and > either color or eat, then we pay, say thank you and leave.

Just like normal people should, great.  Want a brownie button for your accomplishments?  I dunno what it is, you come off to me as being quite hoity-toity.  I hope I’m reading you wrong. >My friends kids > are just too distruptive to spend too much time with – it’s not fun for > anybody, and I don’t care for the example they set for my sons.

So you just keep them away from them rather than using it as a teaching/learning experience that not all people are the same as you?  Not all people have manners such as you?  What does that teach a child? Nonacceptance of people that are different from them.  Total disregard for difference.  Way bad!!! >(BTW-"kids" > restaurants are, of course, a different story.  When we’re talkin’ plastic > trays and play structures, they’re the original "Wild Boys" but I do still > enforce (as best as possible) manners ("’cuse me") and fairness (no pushing) > and looking out for the smaller kids.  It’s the Golden Rule theory of > parenting.)

So your kids aren’t perfect.  I was beginning to wonder.  Cool. > If my sons can’t act appropriately in a given situation because they’re > tired or whatever, then we skip it and go another time.

Nice to be able to skip everything and come back to it.  Not all of us have the same luxury given different circumstances.  Unless, you didn’t mean to make a blanket statement. > They also know > that, if I say that something is the rule for that situation, they follow > the rules or we leave.  I figure it’s easier to teach them "proper" behavior > now in certain situations, then try to change their habits down the road.

True.  Nothing’s wrong with setting boundaries?  Do you give warnings or is it absolute?  Again, you’re scaring me here.  I’d sure hate to be your child – you sound WAY TOO militant for my taste. > It’s like a neighbor I have who lets his 2 yo son wander into the street

That’s their problem.  They’ll reap what they sow. > but I’m admittedly overprotective anyway.

You sure sound it.  You scare the bejeebeez out of me.  And I’m almost 30!!!! >At barely 4, my > boys are not allowed to play in the street period, and we stop at every > crossing, even in parking lots, and "look for moving cars" even when I know > there are none there.  It’s a case of practice and establishing good

habits. Of course it is.  We do the same thing. > I won’t always be there to hold their hands and I want them to Always look > before they leap, so to speak.  It might be a "guy" thing (no insult > intended!) because DH and I have this discussion often where he focuses on > the event at hand and misses the "big picture" – like the messages or > lessons you are giving your child about your own rules and standards of > behavior.

Men are known to be quite inferior to their women counterparts in the realm of childrearing.  No argument there and I NEVER have felt insulted about it before – won’t start now. > Anyway, back on point. At our library, the kids must be three and "able to > sit quietly" according to the rules.

Too militant for my taste.  We’d never go there.  Our storytime hour is for kids 18-36 months; we were well within our rights to be there. > That’s just our library, I think each > sets it’s own rules, so follow the ones you have.  If Noah insists on > running loose in any situation, it’s up to you to decide what You feel is > appropriate for that particular situation and then set the limits

Damn straight.  Parents MUST accept responsibility for their children. ALWAYS!!! >(In fairness to others > though, it would be nice if you are not a total disruption for everyone > else.)

Yes, it would be fair.  However, and I have given this some thought today, if it wasn’t MY child who was doing the disrupting and rather someone else’s child, I would have had not the least bit of concern about it.  I would not have felt cheated, disrupted, or anything else.  I would have totally understood that it was the age thing. > No one says you must go home and throw him in a crib, but if you’ve > gotta leave, then make sure he knows next time he needs to listen to you or > you will leave again.

He’s 2!!!!!  LOL. "Next time we go, Noah, you need to sit still" (it’s already in one ear and out the other.)  LOL. > The "big picture" is teaching our kids about > authority and respect for the rules of the family and society as a whole.

One can only teach what one is ready, willing and able to be taught. > At this age…

At this age, he’s gonna do what he’s gonna do.  LOL. > As Always, JMHO!  L

Thank God for that. AJPDLA

Response:

> What did you mean when you said he was the only one in > a group of 2 year olds? Were the other kids 2?

Yeah, it was a group of 15 kids for the session, all of which were between the ages of 18-36 months old. Most of them (as I inquired) were either just going to be 2 or had just turned 2.  Noah’s 25 months old as of yesterday (whre does the time go???) > Also, think > about it- if that was your son’s first time in > storytime, he is going to be excited and not be able to > sit still.

This is the final conclusion for today I have come to, yes. Thanks for your posting. AJPDLA

Response:

> Took Noah for Storytime at the local library today.  Walked up the stairs > and into the room to about 14 other kids with their parents/caregivers (all > women) – what looks I got, some good, some indifferent (all leers and > jeers) – and took my seat.

Ya mean you didn’t already know you’re a freak of nature???  ;-}  LOL > Storytime starts and Noah immediately precedes to "do his thing", not > sitting still (typical 2 year old – although he was the only one in a group > of 2 year olds!!!!), wanting to walk around the room, check out the other > kids, wanting to play, falling down to the ground, grinning at everyone, > wanting to be the center of attention, while all the other kids sat > patiently listening to the storyteller in their mother’s/caregiver’s lap.

Don’t worry about it.  "Sit still" means the same thing to a 2 year old that "dental exam" means to you.  (I was nice.  I edited which exam I originally typed.  ;-})  Not something either of you think of fondly.  But something you both have to learn to accept at some point.  Every mother in that room who was worth her salt understood what was going on with Noah.  You can’t spend your day worrying about what other people are thinking of you and how you are raising your son.  Down that path lies madness, my friend.  He saw a roomful of people nearly the same size as him and was thrilled!!  That is all that was going on with him. Call the library.  Ask them if they have a story time for younger children. Ask them if they have a sing along time for younger children.  Ask them if they know of any other programs in your town that are for children Noah’s age.  See if you can find a play group that you would both be comfortable attending.  (Playgroup around here is the kids playing and the SAHMs yacking.  But we would be happy to include a SAHD.)  You might be surprised what all there is for kids even in a town the size of a dime.  I live in Indiana’s version of Mayberry.  And I was flabbergasted at what all there is for small people around here.  (Nothing for the teen agers to do except cruise Wal-Mart’s parking lot, but that’s another thread.)  Yes, he needs to get out and be with other kids.  Yes, he needs to learn how to behave in public.  But maybe a structured, sit down, and shhh story time isn’t his cup of tea.  You can work your way up to that.  I think you, Noah and Mom going to the library to read together is a great first step.  He may think that is so cool that story time is a doable thing next time.  Then again, he might see that room full of kids again and think it’s play time.  Who knows.  No one really knows the mind of a 2 year old from one second to the next. Oh, and it would have been fine for you to say politely, "I don’t think Noah is in the mood to sit still.  We will try this another time" and then leave. It was fine that you sat there.  All those children in that room were 2 once.  All those mothers knew it took time for their children to learn how to sit still and listen to a story.  I am sure they understood.  If I had been there, I would have understood and happily explained to anyone who didn’t.  I could have taken my DD to story time at the library when she was 2 (well my boss at the time might not have liked it) and she would have listen intently.  My DS is 4.  There would have to be a talking dog reading the story for him to sit and listen.  That just isn’t his thing.  He loves to be read to!  But he loves to be read to when we are cuddled up together at home alone.  If I took him to a room full of children to listen to a story, he would want to play.  So we don’t do story time at the library.  No skin off his nose.  We get together with friends and play. Sharon

Response:

> I think bringing him different places to socialize is exactly what you need > to do. However, if he is not behaving in a way that is socially acceptable > (screeching in a movie theater, throwing things in a restaurant, pulling all > the books off the shelves in the library etc.) then you can either try to > stop the behavior or remove him and try again in a few months. He will learn > eventually – but if a child is disrupting other people (running around wild, > having a temper tantrum etc.) , then the child should be removed from the > situation.

Oh, yes, I agree wholeheartedly.  And this is quite obvious, FOR ANY PARENT. And we have done this.  Haven’t been to a movie theater yet with Noah, and we’ve been pretty lucky in restaurants.  It hasn’t had to go that far yet, ye olde trip outside, but we have gotten to that point in some places and we just do what SHOULD be done at that point, removal from the situation. However, in this case, it was something fresh, something brand new, something we will be going to for the next 10 weeks, I think it is.  So, as with the daycare situation when we started THAT out, it will probably take a couple of weeks to get himself acclimated.  We’ll be doing the EXTRA preparatorty work on the other days, ie., going BACK to the library and reading books there as well as at home and practicing our "musical chairs" game of going and then stopping (sitting still), et cetera. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> For what it’s worth, my son also never liked to sit still during storytime > at the library, and NEVER followed the Gymboree teacher. He was always the > only one who didn’t do what the others did. It turns out he has a problem > with receptive speech, so that what he was hearing didn’t make sense. I’m > not saying there’s anything wrong with your child at all, but if he > continues to be the ‘only one’ who doesn’t do as the other kids are doing, > and displays other problem signs (extreme temper tantrums, excessively > repetitive movements, trouble transitioning from one activity or environment > to another), then you might want to call your district about having an > evaluation done – it’s free and can do no harm. If there is a problem, the > earlier it’s caught the easier it is to help the child. > Again, please don’t take offense – it could just be normal 2 year old ants > in the pants – most 2 year olds are not known for sitting quietly for any > length of time. But I know what I went through, and I wish I had known the > warning signs much sooner.

Oh, no.  And I thank you for all of your input.  I hope you don’t get me wrong, reading other postings of reaction to people who post to me.  That Sue bitch, Linda or whatever her name was (I knew I’d only remember her for as long as it took me to log off the net) — well, I just love it when people come right back at ya attacking away without thinking before they type, prolly not even reading the entire posting before hitting the "reply group" button, people like that have absolutely NO idea of who I am, what’s going on, can’t even form a complete comprehensive thought and choose, rather to just displace their petty feelings onto someone else without thought or context (and did I mention I love personal flame wars), they’re just not worth the time and effort and have no business in a NG at all. Anyway, enough about her. Your thoughts are valid.  I think they might not apply in this case; but, again, time only tells these things.  Anything’s possible where children are concerned.  We’ll see as the weeks/months go on. Thanks again. AJPDLA

Response:

Well, you know — and what goes around comes around– just as if I’ve told some people in this NG in my replies to them, I am now reaping what I’ve sown with Noah. I pretty much let him do what he wants to do at home, within reason, and he never really sits still all day long.  So for me to really expect him to do so right off the bat at some storytime function, well, it’s pretty much ludicrous.  So now, we start here, we start now, and the extra work needs to be done to see if he wants to do something like this, storytime.  If he wants to do it, he’ll get the chance.  If he pretty much doesn’t want to do it, I won’t force him to do so.  We’ll just keep it at home.  However, we wouldn’t have learned this had we never gone.  :)  He does like the new "musical chair" game we play at home, starting today.  I will try to incorporate this into the storytime next week and we’ll see how "freeze" plays itself out. AJPDLA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I think maybe he is just a little too young to be expected to sit still for > too long.  Yes some kids get it earlier and some later.  My boy couldn’t sit > still at something like that for anything, and I have to say he still finds > sitting still a bit of an effort.  My daughter on the other hand just fits > into any situation and behaves appropriately.  I think taking him to the > library and reading to him yourself is a good idea.  I hope that the story > teller is aiming her stories at the right level,  short and action filled, > the children being able to join in the actions are best.

Response:

From reading other posts, it’s becoming quite obvious that you and I have very different parenting styles but, hey, if one can’t learn from another, what’s the point of sharing information.  It does sound like, in this particular storytime, that the kids were either more used to the event, or maybe their parents had better control of their attention. That’s not control in a bad sense like oppression, but parental control – more like when you insist that your child hold your hand when crossing the street or in a parking lot, or take a nap because they need one.  I heard some talk show discussing when kids spread their "diaper contents" and the prob was one parent saw it as a "natural" childhood thing (ie: no biggie, they’ll grow out of it) and the other was quite upset about it and wanted it stopped.  The host said that it is our job as parents to take some of these "natural urges" and teach them which are appropriate for our particular society (besides poop spreading is downright dangerous from a germ standpoint).  As far as "kids being kids" I have a friend who I can no longer be around because she refuses to have her kids behave in any social situations – like at a restaurant.  Her kids (3&4) run wild around the restaurant, play with their food, scream, etc.  On the other hand, my boys know when we go to a sit-down restaurant that we sit fairly quietly and either color or eat, then we pay, say thank you and leave.  My friends kids are just too distruptive to spend too much time with – it’s not fun for anybody, and I don’t care for the example they set for my sons. (BTW-"kids" restaurants are, of course, a different story.  When we’re talkin’ plastic trays and play structures, they’re the original "Wild Boys" but I do still enforce (as best as possible) manners ("’cuse me") and fairness (no pushing) and looking out for the smaller kids.  It’s the Golden Rule theory of parenting.) If my sons can’t act appropriately in a given situation because they’re tired or whatever, then we skip it and go another time.  They also know that, if I say that something is the rule for that situation, they follow the rules or we leave.  I figure it’s easier to teach them "proper" behavior now in certain situations, then try to change their habits down the road. It’s like a neighbor I have who lets his 2 yo son wander into the street (very quiet, rural, etc.) and walk alone across to the neighbors house – he’s out front watching, just not right along side.  It’s not like he stops and looks either – just heads out without looking back!  I fear that someday that little boy will just walk out when the occasional car is coming down rather fast – but I’m admittedly overprotective anyway.  At barely 4, my boys are not allowed to play in the street period, and we stop at every crossing, even in parking lots, and "look for moving cars" even when I know there are none there.  It’s a case of practice and establishing good habits. I won’t always be there to hold their hands and I want them to Always look before they leap, so to speak.  It might be a "guy" thing (no insult intended!) because DH and I have this discussion often where he focuses on the event at hand and misses the "big picture" – like the messages or lessons you are giving your child about your own rules and standards of behavior. Anyway, back on point. At our library, the kids must be three and "able to sit quietly" according to the rules. That’s just our library, I think each sets it’s own rules, so follow the ones you have.  If Noah insists on running loose in any situation, it’s up to you to decide what You feel is appropriate for that particular situation and then set the limits You wish to enforce.  How you enforce them is up to you.  (In fairness to others though, it would be nice if you are not a total disruption for everyone else.)  No one says you must go home and throw him in a crib, but if you’ve gotta leave, then make sure he knows next time he needs to listen to you or you will leave again.  The "big picture" is teaching our kids about authority and respect for the rules of the family and society as a whole. At this age, You are the authority he needs to respect so do what ever it is that works for you and your own family. As Always, JMHO!  L

Response:

Please don’t blame not being in daycare earlier for this! There are many children who have never been to daycare and will sit quietly and behave and many children who have been in daycare from 6 weeks old and are holy terrors. My 2 girls have never been in daycare. My oldest had just turned 4 when I got her into a children’s group that meets once a week for 2 hours and she is an angel there. My youngest was 2.5 when she started there and she is an angel, too. BUT sometimes if I am with them, they both are wild and do not behave, especially my youngest. Remember, kids are alot better when you are not around (most of them, anyway). Don’t blame it on you not putting him in daycare sooner. IMO 2 year olds are not able to sit still for long. When I was 2, I would try to talk in church and my mom would take me to the bathroom and beat my ass and expect me to sit still. She told me after I grew up that she was wrong and no one should ever expect a 2-3 year old to sit still for long. What did you mean when you said he was the only one in a group of 2 year olds? Were the other kids 2? When my daughter was in gymnastics, she was 2. She was in a group of 2-4 year olds. She was one of the best behaved children there-but, if I was there, she acted up and didn’t pay attention. I think daycare has nothing to do with it. The older my children get, the better they are. I can take them out to eat and they will sit and talk quietly ("like big people") and eat and make me so proud. Also, think about it- if that was your son’s first time in storytime, he is going to be excited and not be able to sit still. Marie

>Took Noah for Storytime at the local library today.

Walked up the stairs >and into the room to about 14 other kids with their

parents/caregivers (all >women) – what looks I got, some good, some indifferent (all leers and >jeers) – and took my seat. >Storytime starts and Noah immediately precedes to "do his thing", not >sitting still (typical 2 year old – although he was

the only one in a group >of 2 year olds!!!!), wanting to walk around the room, check out the other >kids, wanting to play, falling down to the ground,

grinning at everyone, >wanting to be the center of attention, while all the other kids sat >patiently listening to the storyteller in their

mother’s/caregiver’s lap. >And, you know, I wasn’t really embarrassed about it – don’t really know >why – but still got those looks from some of the women there, just those >funny looks that seem to say things like "Geez, what

do they let that kid do >at home," or, "Does this guy ever spend time with his

kid, the kid seems to >have the run of the place."  At least that’s what I

was internalizing at the >time.  And I spend ALL DAY with Noah, I’m the SAHF deal. >I kind of let Noah do what he wanted to do there,

didn’t really know how to >discipline him (or if I should have anyway at the time there) in front of >everyone, especially women, I dunno.  Every time he’d (Noah) come close >enough, I’d grab him and sit him back down in front of

me, but he would then >go – you know – stiff as a board and start screaming

and then I’d kind of >let him go back to his other thing.  I guess I could

have just gotten up and >walked out of the room with him and taken him right

home (really wanted to a >couple of times), but he’s supposed to get out and see

other kids; right?  I >can’t keep him sheltered at home for the rest of his

life for fear that he >won’t have the social interaction we believe he needs. This is why we >started daycare in the first place – which is working out just fine now. >I’m just rambling here, yes. >But I truly think that there are two sides to the

perverbial coin here in >terms of whether you put your son or daughter into a

social daycare setting >right away at a very early age as opposed to later if

not ever at all.  We >are the "other" side of that coin, the one that is

having to play "catch up" >in the way of socialization of our toddler into a

group of other kids.  This >leads me to think hard of having the second child – when we have him or >her – go to daycare a little earlier.  I can stay at

home and raise the two >just fine; but is just seems, to me, that the benefits

of going earlier seem >to outweigh anything else at this point. >Again, I wasn’t really embarrassed, just a little

confused as to what to do >at the time.  He wasn’t really throwing a tantrum,

just wanted to do what HE >wanted to do at that time.  Ah, well. >Thanks for listening. >AJPDLA >P.S.  Our "What to Expect the Toddler Years" book

doesn’t have a section on >"sitting still."  And I don’t >         really know if I’d classify this event as a tantrum or not.  It >wasn’t really a full-blown thing, just a >         typical toddler wanting to explore something new.  Yes, it was a >time to sit still and listen to a story, >         but short of causing a major scene and

ruining everyone’s else’s >storytime, well, I haven’t seen >         something on what to do in this book either,

yet.  LOL.  Ah, well. >P.S.S.  The storyteller lady in the beginning, when I

first came in, told me >I looked familiar to her and I >            was tempted to say something like "well,

if you mean if I’m the >one with the kid who’s always >            screaming in the shopping cart as we enter the store, yes, >that’s me."  Such a small town we live >            in.  But I politely said something else.

ROFLMAO.  But that’s – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->another thread.

Response:

I did apologize to the storyteller on the way out and told her I would be quick to work on the sitting still issue.  She assured me that it was perfectly normal for Noah to act this way and that she said it wasn’t so much of an issue of him wanting to disrupt the crowd but rather to get acclimated for himself to the situation and surroundings.  I told her "I understand" in kind of a tone that was saying "I apologize for my son and we will be better next time" and went on our way. Talked to the wife about it and she said we’ll just take Noah down there, back to the library, after I fetch her from work, and we’ll sit in the same room and read him some stories there.  Maybe that will help out. AJPDLA

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> we have story time at our library for "little ones" and it is PERFECT for my > 2 year old.. if he gets up and wanders NO PROBLEM! we sing songs and the > books are short and simple. he usually can stay focused for 15 minutes or so > and then comes and goes. we have been going since it started this fall.. he > was about 18 months old at the time. LOVE IT! took my 4 year old along last > week because he was on spring break from preschool and he loved it too. the > "open" story time is PACKED and it is hard for all but the oldest kids to > pay attention. just signed the boys up for a "music and movement" class at > the library too. we’ll see how it goes. I’m sure Noah will settle in as he > gets used to it! don’t’ worry about the Moms! I’m sure your 2 year is > perfectly 2! : )  –Jennifer > Took Noah for Storytime at the local library today.  Walked up the stairs > and into the room to about 14 other kids with their parents/caregivers > (all > women) – what looks I got, some good, some indifferent (all leers and > jeers) – and took my seat. > Storytime starts and Noah immediately precedes to "do his thing", not > sitting still (typical 2 year old – although he was the only one in a > group > of 2 year olds!!!!), wanting to walk around the room, check out the other > kids, wanting to play, falling down to the ground, grinning at everyone, > wanting to be the center of attention, while all the other kids sat > patiently listening to the storyteller in their mother’s/caregiver’s lap. > And, you know, I wasn’t really embarrassed about it – don’t really know > why – but still got those looks from some of the women there, just those > funny looks that seem to say things like "Geez, what do they let that kid > do > at home," or, "Does this guy ever spend time with his kid, the kid seems > to > have the run of the place."  At least that’s what I was internalizing at > the > time.  And I spend ALL DAY with Noah, I’m the SAHF deal. > I kind of let Noah do what he wanted to do there, didn’t really know how > to > discipline him (or if I should have anyway at the time there) in front of > everyone, especially women, I dunno.  Every time he’d (Noah) come close > enough, I’d grab him and sit him back down in front of me, but he would > then > go – you know – stiff as a board and start screaming and then I’d kind of > let him go back to his other thing.  I guess I could have just gotten up > and > walked out of the room with him and taken him right home (really wanted to > a > couple of times), but he’s supposed to get out and see other kids; right? > I > can’t keep him sheltered at home for the rest of his life for fear that he > won’t have the social interaction we believe he needs.  This is why we > started daycare in the first place – which is working out just fine now. > I’m just rambling here, yes. > But I truly think that there are two sides to the perverbial coin here in > terms of whether you put your son or daughter into a social daycare > setting > right away at a very early age as opposed to later if not ever at all. We > are the "other" side of that coin, the one that is having to play "catch > up" > in the way of socialization of our toddler into a group of other kids. > This > leads me to think hard of having the second child – when we have him or > her – go to daycare a little earlier.  I can stay at home and raise the > two > just fine; but is just seems, to me, that the benefits of going earlier > seem > to outweigh anything else at this point. > Again, I wasn’t really embarrassed, just a little confused as to what to > do > at the time.  He wasn’t really throwing a tantrum, just wanted to do what > HE > wanted to do at that time.  Ah, well. > Thanks for listening. > AJPDLA > P.S.  Our "What to Expect the Toddler Years" book doesn’t have a section > on > "sitting still."  And I don’t >          really know if I’d classify this event as a tantrum or not.  It > wasn’t really a full-blown thing, just a >          typical toddler wanting to explore something new.  Yes, it was a > time to sit still and listen to a story, >          but short of causing a major scene and ruining everyone’s else’s > storytime, well, I haven’t seen >          something on what to do in this book either, yet.  LOL.  Ah, > well. > P.S.S.  The storyteller lady in the beginning, when I first came in, told > me > I looked familiar to her and I >             was tempted to say something like "well, if you mean if I’m > the > one with the kid who’s always >             screaming in the shopping cart as we enter the store, yes, > that’s me."  Such a small town we live >             in.  But I politely said something else.  ROFLMAO.  But that’s > another thread.

Response:

I think bringing him different places to socialize is exactly what you need to do. However, if he is not behaving in a way that is socially acceptable (screeching in a movie theater, throwing things in a restaurant, pulling all the books off the shelves in the library etc.) then you can either try to stop the behavior or remove him and try again in a few months. He will learn eventually – but if a child is disrupting other people (running around wild, having a temper tantrum etc.) , then the child should be removed from the situation. For what it’s worth, my son also never liked to sit still during storytime at the library, and NEVER followed the Gymboree teacher. He was always the only one who didn’t do what the others did. It turns out he has a problem with receptive speech, so that what he was hearing didn’t make sense. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with your child at all, but if he continues to be the ‘only one’ who doesn’t do as the other kids are doing, and displays other problem signs (extreme temper tantrums, excessively repetitive movements, trouble transitioning from one activity or environment to another), then you might want to call your district about having an evaluation done – it’s free and can do no harm. If there is a problem, the earlier it’s caught the easier it is to help the child. Again, please don’t take offense – it could just be normal 2 year old ants in the pants – most 2 year olds are not known for sitting quietly for any length of time. But I know what I went through, and I wish I had known the warning signs much sooner. Good Luck Heidi

Response:

> What is the point of taking a kid to an event like this if not to help him > learn social skills? e.g. appropriate behavior for different situations. > A kid who is goofing and clowning and wandering in ways that attract > attention during a story session is distracting other kids and ruining the > experience for other families.

Yes, I thought of that.  According to your two sentences, I should just have him sit at home and not go out anywhere because, if he’s going to act up at all, what’s the point of going?  Right?  Kind of a duh.  One can’t really teach appropriate behavior if one does not put the student into a situation where they can be taught.  What do you think, kids learn through osmosis? LOL.  I’m not getting defensive, just trying to figure out your reasoning. > Sure — if a two year old doesn’t want to listen, he certainly shouldn’t > have to sit there  BUT it is up to the parent to recognize that this is > not a social situation he can cope with and take him somewhere else where > he can appropriately explore and ‘do whatever he wants.’

I know.  I took him to McDonald’s right after.  He had a much better time. LOL.  Many of the kids that were at the storytime were there also, and Noah played with them just fine. >Not only is your son not learning appropriate social behavior in this setting, but he is > making it harder on other families trying to help their own kids develop > these skills [not to speak of people who are there to listen to the > stories]

Yes.  But, again, what should I have done?   Just taken him home and never attempted such an outing again?  Where’s the logic in that?  Maybe I should have done what flashed into my head for a second at this storytime, grab him by his little body, whisk him out the door, out into the car, drive him home and throw him into his crib for the rest of the day.  Instead of offering a tone of absolute criticism and outright disdain, why don’t you write something constructive. > Are you the guy who also let’s his kids run up and down the aisle and talk > and play during movies?

What’s a movie?  Haven’t seen a theather for two years now.  LOL. > whose kid is wandering around the restaurant tripping up waiters and

grabbing stuff on other tables? Not me.  Our son goes right into a high chair upon entering a restaurant. If he wants to cry about it, he does until he’s over it and we go about our breakfast/lunch/dinner. > whose kid is wandering up and down the airplane aisles putting sticky hands on each > person he passes or kicking the seat ahead of him because ‘that is what he > wants to do?’

Again, not us.  Although, next time we’re on a plane and you happen to be there, we’ll give you the pleasure of it.  LOL.  Our son has a seat paid for him on a flight and he sits in his FAA approved carseat and sleeps the whole flight.  You’d never know he was there.  We don’t buy into that FAA crap about a child being safe in his mother’s lap on a plane.  Sorry to disappoint you. Are you the kind of woman that I see sometimes when we’re out, the one who is looking down on every couple with a child because their child just happens to not be acting the way you’d have them act in a public place, the kind of woman who has disdain and hatred for children because they want to explore their surrounding, learn about their world around them and it just happens to conflict with your wanting peace and quiet and a quiet meal to yourself in a restaurant? Thanks for your posting.  I’ll remember it for as long as it takes me to log off the net. AJPDLA

Response:

we have story time at our library for "little ones" and it is PERFECT for my 2 year old.. if he gets up and wanders NO PROBLEM! we sing songs and the books are short and simple. he usually can stay focused for 15 minutes or so and then comes and goes. we have been going since it started this fall.. he was about 18 months old at the time. LOVE IT! took my 4 year old along last week because he was on spring break from preschool and he loved it too. the "open" story time is PACKED and it is hard for all but the oldest kids to pay attention. just signed the boys up for a "music and movement" class at the library too. we’ll see how it goes. I’m sure Noah will settle in as he gets used to it! don’t’ worry about the Moms! I’m sure your 2 year is perfectly 2! : )  –Jennifer

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Took Noah for Storytime at the local library today.  Walked up the stairs > and into the room to about 14 other kids with their parents/caregivers (all > women) – what looks I got, some good, some indifferent (all leers and > jeers) – and took my seat. > Storytime starts and Noah immediately precedes to "do his thing", not > sitting still (typical 2 year old – although he was the only one in a group > of 2 year olds!!!!), wanting to walk around the room, check out the other > kids, wanting to play, falling down to the ground, grinning at everyone, > wanting to be the center of attention, while all the other kids sat > patiently listening to the storyteller in their mother’s/caregiver’s lap. > And, you know, I wasn’t really embarrassed about it – don’t really know > why – but still got those looks from some of the women there, just those > funny looks that seem to say things like "Geez, what do they let that kid do > at home," or, "Does this guy ever spend time with his kid, the kid seems to > have the run of the place."  At least that’s what I was internalizing at the > time.  And I spend ALL DAY with Noah, I’m the SAHF deal. > I kind of let Noah do what he wanted to do there, didn’t really know how to > discipline him (or if I should have anyway at the time there) in front of > everyone, especially women, I dunno.  Every time he’d (Noah) come close > enough, I’d grab him and sit him back down in front of me, but he would then > go – you know – stiff as a board and start screaming and then I’d kind of > let him go back to his other thing.  I guess I could have just gotten up and > walked out of the room with him and taken him right home (really wanted to a > couple of times), but he’s supposed to get out and see other kids; right? I > can’t keep him sheltered at home for the rest of his life for fear that he > won’t have the social interaction we believe he needs.  This is why we > started daycare in the first place – which is working out just fine now. > I’m just rambling here, yes. > But I truly think that there are two sides to the perverbial coin here in > terms of whether you put your son or daughter into a social daycare setting > right away at a very early age as opposed to later if not ever at all.  We > are the "other" side of that coin, the one that is having to play "catch up" > in the way of socialization of our toddler into a group of other kids. This > leads me to think hard of having the second child – when we have him or > her – go to daycare a little earlier.  I can stay at home and raise the two > just fine; but is just seems, to me, that the benefits of going earlier seem > to outweigh anything else at this point. > Again, I wasn’t really embarrassed, just a little confused as to what to do > at the time.  He wasn’t really throwing a tantrum, just wanted to do what HE > wanted to do at that time.  Ah, well. > Thanks for listening. > AJPDLA > P.S.  Our "What to Expect the Toddler Years" book doesn’t have a section on > "sitting still."  And I don’t >          really know if I’d classify this event as a tantrum or not.  It > wasn’t really a full-blown thing, just a >          typical toddler wanting to explore something new.  Yes, it was a > time to sit still and listen to a story, >          but short of causing a major scene and ruining everyone’s else’s > storytime, well, I haven’t seen >          something on what to do in this book either, yet.  LOL.  Ah, well. > P.S.S.  The storyteller lady in the beginning, when I first came in, told me > I looked familiar to her and I >             was tempted to say something like "well, if you mean if I’m the > one with the kid who’s always >             screaming in the shopping cart as we enter the store, yes, > that’s me."  Such a small town we live >             in.  But I politely said something else.  ROFLMAO.  But that’s > another thread.

Response:

Took Noah for Storytime at the local library today.  Walked up the stairs and into the room to about 14 other kids with their parents/caregivers (all women) – what looks I got, some good, some indifferent (all leers and jeers) – and took my seat. Storytime starts and Noah immediately precedes to "do his thing", not sitting still (typical 2 year old – although he was the only one in a group of 2 year olds!!!!), wanting to walk around the room, check out the other kids, wanting to play, falling down to the ground, grinning at everyone, wanting to be the center of attention, while all the other kids sat patiently listening to the storyteller in their mother’s/caregiver’s lap. And, you know, I wasn’t really embarrassed about it – don’t really know why – but still got those looks from some of the women there, just those funny looks that seem to say things like "Geez, what do they let that kid do at home," or, "Does this guy ever spend time with his kid, the kid seems to have the run of the place."  At least that’s what I was internalizing at the time.  And I spend ALL DAY with Noah, I’m the SAHF deal. I kind of let Noah do what he wanted to do there, didn’t really know how to discipline him (or if I should have anyway at the time there) in front of everyone, especially women, I dunno.  Every time he’d (Noah) come close enough, I’d grab him and sit him back down in front of me, but he would then go – you know – stiff as a board and start screaming and then I’d kind of let him go back to his other thing.  I guess I could have just gotten up and walked out of the room with him and taken him right home (really wanted to a couple of times), but he’s supposed to get out and see other kids; right?  I can’t keep him sheltered at home for the rest of his life for fear that he won’t have the social interaction we believe he needs.  This is why we started daycare in the first place – which is working out just fine now. I’m just rambling here, yes. But I truly think that there are two sides to the perverbial coin here in terms of whether you put your son or daughter into a social daycare setting right away at a very early age as opposed to later if not ever at all.  We are the "other" side of that coin, the one that is having to play "catch up" in the way of socialization of our toddler into a group of other kids.  This leads me to think hard of having the second child – when we have him or her – go to daycare a little earlier.  I can stay at home and raise the two just fine; but is just seems, to me, that the benefits of going earlier seem to outweigh anything else at this point. Again, I wasn’t really embarrassed, just a little confused as to what to do at the time.  He wasn’t really throwing a tantrum, just wanted to do what HE wanted to do at that time.  Ah, well. Thanks for listening. AJPDLA P.S.  Our "What to Expect the Toddler Years" book doesn’t have a section on "sitting still."  And I don’t          really know if I’d classify this event as a tantrum or not.  It wasn’t really a full-blown thing, just a          typical toddler wanting to explore something new.  Yes, it was a time to sit still and listen to a story,          but short of causing a major scene and ruining everyone’s else’s storytime, well, I haven’t seen          something on what to do in this book either, yet.  LOL.  Ah, well. P.S.S.  The storyteller lady in the beginning, when I first came in, told me I looked familiar to her and I             was tempted to say something like "well, if you mean if I’m the one with the kid who’s always             screaming in the shopping cart as we enter the store, yes, that’s me."  Such a small town we live             in.  But I politely said something else.  ROFLMAO.  But that’s another thread.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Took Noah for Storytime at the local library today.  Walked up the stairs > and into the room to about 14 other kids with their parents/caregivers (all > women) – what looks I got, some good, some indifferent (all leers and > jeers) – and took my seat. > Storytime starts and Noah immediately precedes to "do his thing", not > sitting still (typical 2 year old – although he was the only one in a group > of 2 year olds!!!!), wanting to walk around the room, check out the other > kids, wanting to play, falling down to the ground, grinning at everyone, > wanting to be the center of attention, while all the other kids sat > patiently listening to the storyteller in their mother’s/caregiver’s lap. > And, you know, I wasn’t really embarrassed about it – don’t really know > why – but still got those looks from some of the women there, just those > funny looks that seem to say things like "Geez, what do they let that kid do > at home," or, "Does this guy ever spend time with his kid, the kid seems to > have the run of the place."  At least that’s what I was internalizing at the > time.  And I spend ALL DAY with Noah, I’m the SAHF deal. > I kind of let Noah do what he wanted to do there, didn’t really know how to > discipline him (or if I should have anyway at the time there) in front of > everyone, especially women, I dunno.  Every time he’d (Noah) come close > enough, I’d grab him and sit him back down in front of me, but he would then > go – you know – stiff as a board and start screaming and then I’d kind of > let him go back to his other thing.  I guess I could have just gotten up and > walked out of the room with him and taken him right home (really wanted to a > couple of times), but he’s supposed to get out and see other kids; right?  I > can’t keep him sheltered at home for the rest of his life for fear that he > won’t have the social interaction we believe he needs.  This is why we > started daycare in the first place – which is working out just fine now. > I’m just rambling here, yes. > But I truly think that there are two sides to the perverbial coin here in > terms of whether you put your son or daughter into a social daycare setting > right away at a very early age as opposed to later if not ever at all.  We > are the "other" side of that coin, the one that is having to play "catch up" > in the way of socialization of our toddler into a group of other kids.  This > leads me to think hard of having the second child – when we have him or > her – go to daycare a little earlier.  I can stay at home and raise the two > just fine; but is just seems, to me, that the benefits of going earlier seem > to outweigh anything else at this point. > Again, I wasn’t really embarrassed, just a little confused as to what to do > at the time.  He wasn’t really throwing a tantrum, just wanted to do what HE > wanted to do at that time.  Ah, well.

What is the point of taking a kid to an event like this if not to help him learn social skills? e.g. appropriate behavior for different situations. A kid who is goofing and clowning and wandering in ways that attract attention during a story session is distracting other kids and ruining the experience for other families. Sure — if a two year old doesn’t want to listen, he certainly shouldn’t have to sit there  BUT it is up to the parent to recognize that this is not a social situation he can cope with and take him somewhere else where he can appropriately explore and ‘do whatever he wants.’ Not only is your son not learning appropriate social behavior in this setting, but he is making it harder on other families trying to help their own kids develop these skills [not to speak of people who are there to listen to the stories] Are you the guy who also let’s his kids run up and down the aisle and talk and play during movies?  whose kid is wandering around the restaurant tripping up waiters and grabbing stuff on other tables?  whose kid is wandering up and down the airplane aisles putting sticky hands on each person he passes or kicking the seat ahead of him because ‘that is what he wants to do?’

Response: